I once was speaking with a friend who was going through a very confusing and difficut time and he said, "maybe I will just kill myself", and I said, "you do not want to kill yourself you just want to kill the confusing and difficult time you are having. Putting the ego in it's rightful place is no easy task.....Down boy!

Natural Ice Cream

Sometimes when I'm tired of your dark beauty
my right hand grows enormous.
The tunnel of my eye shoots inward
and I can't bear to eat a piece of fruit.

I love you, I love you, I love you
with all my heart, I say
driving the car back and forth
over pomegranate.
The meter is stuck on red.

And now my brain outweights me.
Now I'm tired.
After I clean the house
I'm gonna put a bullet through my head.

Later on, we can go out someplace nice
for natural ice cream.

-Jack Myers

I once went to a Nursing Home with a group of primary students who sang for the elderly. When the students were done singing, a very ancient lady made her way over to the young group who were now sitting on the floor facing their audience. She looked down on the young ones, but pointing back to her fellow patients, she said, “Enjoy it all! Before you know it, you’ll be on this side.”
I periodically think about that woman’s statements as I see my own birthdays whizzing by. Might as well enjoy the adventure of this life here, and do what we came to do. Even if you live to be 110, death will come fast enough. Patzi

Hey Shekhar: Although suicidal tendencies are considered, across-the-board, to be the height of egotism--I do not have the self-rage to "end it quickly or violently," I'm more the melancholy type who, as I've witnessed again in the last six months of sickness, just wants to slow down, stop eating and taking insulin, and just step out of the body in a dream and head home!

It is against the law to die in certain unacceptable fashions so...

I liked the fact that you would plaster this one in plain view! If you look at the issue of death and/or suicide from the perspective of the most advanced mystics--who teach that, relative to what we are capable of--no sickness, death, toatl prosperity, etc.--most of us are programmed for a slow, medium, or quick death. (I think Deepak mentioned in his "Reincarnation" post that the soul does choose it's time and way of leaving the body??).

I've grown to look at it that we are still in an age where 99.9% of the souls incarnate are going to die to this body--a very few will ascend. this has gone on in most ages of human history. Supposedly the Mayan's had a group ascension of 2,600+_ going up together.

From "their" pespective then, anything less might be considered a form of slow and self-programmed suicide!

But my point for most of us is, like "A Course in Miracles" says, "birth is not the beginning and death is not the end."

To me, "death" has become a form of God's promise regarding resurrection being gauranteed--so that we don't get perpetually trapped in our "earthly dreams" of being the body--stuck in the physical. Can you imagine, like Deepak said, what it would be like if we stayed in the physical yet were allowed to perpetually degenerate without ever being released.

I think the soul of Terri Schiavo was stuck, for our learning, in that situation! Or what about the "O'Bara" family Wayne Dyer spoke of in the book, "A promise is a Promise!"

The father, in that extraordinary story of a mother's sacrifice for her daughter's condition in a diabetic coma, resulted in him committing suicide. But...the real story is what has happened since--truly amazing--with people trying to get the mother to disconnect her daughter's life support, sometimes with violent threats to the mother for not doing so!!!

Our many views of death and dying are quit amazing--clearly our studies of "Reincarnation" also indicate suicide is a "no-no." But in the state-of-grace that is everyone's due from a Unified Creator--are we not forgiven for all of our offenses?

In other words--rules are made to be broken--and the sadness the soul feels when it crosses over from suicide is encoded into it's soul--so that it doesn't want to do it again--mostly because of the life review that shows the soul how it hurt others so much by it's actions.

Hope you don't mind me throwing some stuff into the stew your poem will certainly generate (or I hope it will). In light of some of the previous posts about war--why are sooomany American soldiers in Iraq committing suicide--to our administrations great chagrin in the public eye.

Maybe what is more amazing is why so many who are so oppressed world-wide, in heart-breaking situations of war and starvation--that they don't commit suicide--the will to survive instead!!

What a "Pair-of-dimes" this world of "Para-doxes" is! I understand "Para" means 'beyond, or above.' Dave

PS--Hi Patzi, Your comment made me think of two things; a "spiritualistic medium" who told me about a few past lives, one in the land of Russia where I lived to be 110 and apparently very healthy!

The other thing is a joke I was thinking about for you the other day (since I am duty-bound not to write poems for you--just did that in three creative writing classes).

What do you get when you have a midget-psychic who just robbed a bank? A "small medium at large!"

Thank you for your healing thoughts--I think they came to me in some very interesting dreams I had this a.m. about my Catholic-college-days and...the organization Opus Dei (from Dan Brown's "Da Vinci Code"). Dave

Whenever I hear that someone has commited suicide I wonder one thing. Not...Why did s/he do it?...or...What was s/he thinking... I wonder, how did they find the time? Who has time to be running around committing suicide these days?

You also have to decide whether or not to leave a note, and you only have one chance to get it right. Hmmmm...let's see..."To whom it may concern..." Nope, too impersonal. Hmmm..."Dear EMT personnel..." Nope, that leaves out the relatives. Shit!! This is harder than I thought...I know!! "Hi, everybody. Guess what?"

This is why the Golden Gate Bridge should have a long bungee cord attached to it. You know, for people who aren't committed to suicide, but want to get in a little practice. Or some such thing...:)

Art, you are very impudent,
and FUNNY! LOL

Hi everyone!

Guess what!!! :)))

Good Afternoon Shekhar . . . hope all is well. Your poem has created a swirl of emotions within my being. On one of your previous blogs I had written to you about being raped 19 years ago and spending the last 2 years trying to heal from the resulting impact on my life.

I have tried to commit suicide 3 times - my last attempt was this past December. Your words have triggered memories . . . feelings . . .thoughts . . . justifications . . . remembering the moments just prior to my attempts. The first time was about 4 years after I had been raped - the turmoil in my personal life was unmanageable. I had declared myself as deserving of the violation and felt I was destined for a life filled with affairs, punishment and many other actions of self destruction.

I remember my mind, heart and soul simply giving up - not wishing to know if there were depths of despair even farther down then where I was. I overdosed on anti-depressants . . . and will always remember the sense of peace and tranquility that overcame me. The moment of 'thinking' I would never again have to feel pain . . .I believed I was finally experiencing true happiness. Two weeks later I woke up in the hospital having been in and out of coma - a time which is a complete blank for me. Over the next few years - I fond a way of moving on - but never dealt with the root cause.

Finally in 2003 - I decided I needed to commit to therapy or spend a lifetime running and trying to end my life. This past December - I found myself with a hurricane of emotions and realisations finally released from 2 years of therapy. I had always believed that once I 'voiced' the pain - I would be okay. But I found myself at the 'brink of a cliff' - mind, body and soul at a complete loss.

I tried ending my life on December 26th, 2004 - only to wake up in the hospital a few days later. I returned home on New Year's Eve in complete despair. I sat on the floor of my room whaling uncontrollably to God asking 'what more did He want from me . . . I had nothing more to give . . .why was I still here . . . I just wanted to be let go.'

A day later - a friend gave me Deepak's book 'The Seven Laws of Spiritual Success.' My life changed . . . albeit one day at a time - for the first time in my memory - life began to make sense. I watched an interview one day with Dana Reeve - Christopher Reeve's wife. She expressed how at one point Christopher and herself hit rock bottom - a low in depression they never imagined possible. But - they soon realised they had hit bottom so they could use it to push up - and there was no looking back. I could so relate to that feeling. I had hit rock bottom - but now - there was only up.

Over the last 8 months - with help from the writing of treasures such as Deepak, Wayne Dyer, the Aga Khan, Jack Kornfield, Marianne Willamson, Thomas Merton, Margaret Neylon, Richard Bach, Pema Chodron, Cheri Huber and so many others - the light in my life has never been brighter. Rejuvenation of my faith - Ismailism - and the addition of meditation has helped provide reassurance that no matter where the future leads - I will never again hit the depths of despair . . . the past is finally behind me and the present is filled with so much love and potential.

I wish I could articulate the moment of change - but - I cannot. I just know that even if I am alone - I am never alone - the Source has a purpose for me - and no matter what life presents - there is a plan. The miracle of life is a blessing . . . death and the blessings it holds will come for me when the time is right . . . the Source will see to that. Until then - each day is a gift - no better or worse then the day before or the day after. And there is so much love from the Source and Angels.

I can not speak for others who may have tried to end their life - only for myself. For those who say they cannot understand how anyone could possibly try to commit suicide - know you are blessed. You are blessed for never having to know the depths of despair resulting from sacrificing and ignoring the self. I only know that for myself - I am forever grateful for being thrown a rope - it took over 19 years - but finally this stubborn Scorpio is starting to see the beauty in a rose - and more importantly - the vibrance and jewel the Source has created within her own being.

In trying to end my life - many reprecussions resulted. I take full responsibility for my actions and also accept the judgement of others that I crossed the line. For the first time in my life - I know it doesnt matter what 'they' think or do . . . the only matter of importance is my journey towards the Source continues . . . and I have never loved myself more then I do today.

I have learned so much about myself and our universe from others in this blog . . .Kristen, Dave, Patzi, Aurora, Stephen, Robin, Ruth, Scott, Ray, Ron . . .and even Mr. Murder - and so many more. The opportunity to communicate and be inspired by individuals such as yourself, Deepak, Gotham, Mallika . . .a gift I am thankful for daily.

Thanks to posts such as this - I am finding my place in Global Humanity - and know never again will I give up my true self . . . it is far too precious . . . as are all aspects of the Source's creation.

Wishing all an abundance of laughter, joy, happiness, peace, tranquility and inner bliss! Hugs to everyone . . . and Dave . . . you will make it through this time so don't give up! Keep Smiling . . .Laila

Could you imagine the trials and travails a writer would have while writing the note? Seems to me, a writer would get so involved revising and polishing the note that s/he'd never get around to the suicide. S/He would cheer up just by writing a really good note...:)

Laila,

Namaste to you. I applaud your strength, insight and love of self. One day at a time. Bravo.

Love,
Joanie

In the 80's I was a Suicide Trainer and Crisis Hotline volunteer. It was really a wonderful experience. We would take 4 hour shifts, except if you did the midnight shift.

I found that the people who called in the day were different than the people to called after midnight. We were trained to confront people who threatened suicide to find out if it was real, if there was a plan. Once I lost one, I knew it was real, I knew what the plan was and then the person hung up. It was very scary. All I knew was the person was very drunk hanging out in the back of a store.

Then there was another where we were able to send the mobile crisis team out to save a life.

Suicide is a heavy topic and I know I will write some more about this later....

The thing is yes, people truly just want to kill the situation and not themselves, but the only way out they sometime see is by killing themselves it will end the problem. It's like running away truthfully. Some also fantasize about removing themselves from the world as a way of seeking retribution. You know the "you'll be sorry when i'm gone" way of thinking. Some see it as a "take that" kind of action.

The only thing is once it's done you can never come back, so think carefully of what you do...

joanie,

pl do write more

shekhar

Laila: Ditto Baby!!! Dave

And yeah Jason: I've heard suicide described as not so much trying to kill ones-self and the seemingly unbearable pain, but rather one is trying to kill the world.

For those who are interested in reincarnation, etc.; in the arena of spiritualistic mediumship, I have never heard of a single accounting from a soul who has crossed-over from suicide, that it ever once solved their problems.

They always say that the anguish of seeing those they hurt in doing so was greater than the pain they were feeling before the suicide. They also say that what they thought was a hopeless situation had a resolution to it that was going to materialize into their world in days, weeks, or months.

The closest situation for a solution was a tragic incidence (as they all are) where a 12-year-old boy hung himself out of peer pressure and the threats that the "peers" were going to hurt his sister if he didn't buckle to the demand of their "gang initiations." Sooo...he checked himself out in hopes of diffusing the situation. But he still communicated back to his relatives that he wished he hadn't because he could now "see" other 'soul-utions' to the situation that were for him to face in the physical.

It is also interesting to note that oftentimes--the first job Spirit gives to those who have committed suicide is to help guide others who are crossing over from the same means, and find themselves very confused, lost, or trying to get back in a non-functioning body or hanging around and haunting a scene.

We still have free-will to do this stuff, the most universal gift we were given--sometimes it is a "pain" to have it! Dave

You [we] are not alone! ... that you [we] might find life and life abundantly.

Aradhana

You [we] are not alone! ... that you [we] might find life and life abundantly.

Aradhana

Hi Shekhar, I hope you are just kidding. It is completely wrong to commit suicide.If one commits suicide you come right back into this earth in a similar situation to learn the same lessons.take care. talk to us.if you are kidding please do not kid about that.God bless.

Art: You definitely make me laugh--the way you can take a serious subject and turn it to humor.

You made me laugh sooo...hard that I spilled my glass of "hemlock" all over my note, and now I have to write it again!

And now, oh shithe, I just spilled my box of bullets all over the floor vent, the phone is ringing, and I accidentally flushed the tranquilizers down the toilet thinking the knock at the door was the police...and it was just a neighbor bringing me a piece of her birthday cake...

Well if that were possible "killing the self" then perhaps you could try it .The trouble is you can't kill yourself.You may stop this body from breathing It may decay in a grave or float its ashes down some river but YOU will still live.After all if you are part physical and part spirit you can't be destroyed ever.So what's the point of suicide?Except you really want to hurt the living or send some dear one who loves you on a guilt trip of unceasing pain.

Hi David,

Yes, it is a serious subject. I think we all know of someone who has at least attempted it, if not succeeded. My irreverence was an attempt at getting the discussion moving along, it appeared to have stalled, and it seems to have worked. It is an awkward subject, and I'm looking forward to Joanie's posts on the matter too...

I hope you have a food taster for that birthday cake...:)

Dear Laila,

Thankyou. with Love,,,,,,,,,

Hey Art: The beauty of this post is being able to talk about most, if not all, the "taboos." And because of that allowance--there is virtually no crudeness, or really cynical, judgmental or tasteless stuff here--did you notice?

There is nothing irreverant about humor--especially in the midst of all the dark thoughts and emotions that get us so stuck in the groove of despair that....well, we don't even bother writing a note....because who would care...

Have been learning a great deal about brain chemistry lately and it really helps to understand just how powerful our thoughts really are.

Jesus' teachings about "thoughts are things-so be careful what you think because your thoughts are determining everything..."

His Beatitudes from "The Sermon of the Mount" were all about being happy--not be careful, or careless, but carefree! He claimed all his miracles were accomplished in a divine state of happiness.

I want to know what that feels like again--like when we were spontaneously happy as children.

I am finding that so many of these posts are threading their way into a synchro-destined pathway of "yellow-brick road"--like stones appearing just in front of me feet, unfolding just as the path of my life seems at it's end, and then "something" nudges to put my foot out and step into that "uncertainty of the dark abyss" and voila, the next step appears without reason for it's cause!

Your humor is the greatest of anti-dotes because of the brain chemistry changes that occur from that laughter....and then we can talk about all the stuff we're not supposed to talk about, and it breaks the chains-of-denial, and on and on. Fun stuff Art. Thanks-Dave

David...

Great post! One of my favorite subjects is psychoneuro-immunology. I was in a golf store a long, long time ago and found a book by Paul Piersall titled, "Super Joy", in one of the racks at the checkout line. Interestingly enough, I also saw a yoga book that grabbed my attention, and wound up buying both of them along with a golf glove and a dozen balls. They prepared me for Dr Dyer, and Dr. Chopra's works.

Strange how it all fits together when reflecting back on it all...:)

Good Evening Joanie, Dave, Ruth and all . . . thank you for the words of encouragement. Suicide is certainly a 'touchy' topic and as Gjayaram has said . . . our soul keeps returning until the lessons are learned. I am more then grateful that I was a 'failure' in my attemps and am having the opporunity to heal and mend my soul.

I think the desire is a combination of wanting to end pain, hurt others, escape - for me - in the moments prior to 'making the attempt' my thoughts resonated primarily on the disappointment I felt I was to so many in my life - and the fact I cared so deeply for people I thought I had hurt . . . and could not face myself. Life revolved so much around making other people happy - at any cost - self sacrifice. Regardless of the professional success in my life . . . the many deep friendships with souls throughout the world from my travels . . . a family that truly cared . . . none of it mattered at the moment - the self hate and loathing far outweighed all of that.

One of the key themes I appreciate from Joanie, Kristen and Aurora throughout their blogs is the importance of loving within - yourself - that no matter what steps one takes - it starts with coming to peace with oneself. So many who try to end their life . . .who are on the edge . . .who question existence . . . can't see the importance of self love and acceptance . . .believe it or not - it is something non-existent and unattainable.

Joanie . . .it would be interesting to hear about the conversations . . .if there were recurring themes . . . did you get a chance to follow up with 'survivors' . . . what was the life changing moment that put people on a new path?

It is an incredible feeling to begin appreciating the gifts from the Source . . . I never imagined a spider web, rain, rocks, birds or the wind could be so engagingly invigorating!

Sending loads of hugs to all . . . many we continue being enlightened and embraced by love . . . Laila

Most happy, successful people at one time have considered suicide. They decided against it.
Richard Bach

Laila and all who have felt Richard Bach's words echo through their souls; from page 244 of "The Nine Faces of Christ:

'There I stayed for many days, my soul achingly black with sick despair and anguish.

And I continued--was helpless to stop--my despising my self.

Then I became like a vegetable, sitting out the long, long hours in listlessness.

Weeks went by, then months, and I sat wasting my life in the clutch of a despair I could not escape.

My three mentors left me--which plunged me into ever deeper despair--and made a caravan tipr. they came back after about six months, then went again.

My mood changed. I began to actively hate my flesh. Many times I walked to high places and the despair bade me throw myself to my destruction.

A hundred times I was sorely tempted, but some thin thread of light kept me from doing so.'"

This is a description of a young initiate-mystic named Jeshua, Joseph-bar-Joseph--A.K.A. Jesus, I believe at the age of 22-23.

He had just finished becoming an "Anointed One," or Christed-One, by the teachings and tests of the Magian religion from which our beloved three in the Bible came.

He had just fallen into the "mental deep night of despair," and could not understand what was happening to him.

There are three according to this narrative accounting: physical, mental and spiritual.

The Magi went on to explain about these necessity of those "dark nights of the soul," and their essential part in our earthly journey toward spiritual evolution.

I leave you with this section only as it is not my "Intention" to convince anyone of anything--but I don't mind bringing your "Attention" to this work in that it may help the reader understand that conventional religions do not always teach beyond the "fun-da-mental" levels of linear interpretation, as surely most of you know.

I figure that if these really advanced souls find themselves going through these tests--who would I be not to have to grapple with same?

Even more of an arrogant fool than I've already been, if such is possible! Love--Dave

Dear Laila....I'm so glad you're here!

Love and hugs to you!

Hi All,
I didn't want to write before as I was running out the door.

I am certainly not an expert on this subject and have no formal degree in this, but between volunteering/training at the hotline center and then I was a Resident Advisor in college for 3 years, I have been trained to a degree.

The Hotine was telephone only. We never came in contact with a caller, as it was against the rules. I came close to breaking those rules once, but it was only thinking it. I am glad I did not. I actually talked to one woman in particular for 5 years straight on a regular basis. One gets attached when you have that sort of relationship. I went under another name so these people did not know us by real names.

The most important thing I think is important in a Suicide situation or crisis is for the person in crisis to know and feel that someone is listening.

For the listener it is important to "reflect" back what you are hearing. For instance if Shekar writes a poem and I read it, if I thought he was serious, I would say something like, "Shekar, you sound very troubled?" Or "you sound like you are in dispair". It is trying to hear the feeling the person is feeling and confirming it. When you confront that person with "Sounds like you are feeling ****", they will usually say, "Yes that is it, or No, it is not that, but I feel ****".

I would confront and ask what their plan is to kill themselves. If they say they have a gun or pills, I'd try to see if they were willing to devise a very specific plan for getting rid of the weapon or pills and get the help they need. The help may be in the form of talking to a friend, a doctor, social worker, psychologist, psychiatrist, priest, rabbi, anyone in the helping field. Sometimes people might need medication for awhile if that is something they are willing to do. Others may take other healthy routes to deal and comfront the reasons they feel like they want to die. It is so important for a person feeling so distraught to know that people care and love them.

When I was in college and a RA, I was in charge of a hallway of college students. They knew they could come to me if they had a problem and needed to talk. Face to face is different than on a phone hotline. Face to face is nice as one can cry, yell, sob just in front of another human being they trust and you can also give a hug.

I would find myself asking these students to make a daily plan as they go, just to get thru each day...until they were either able to get thru the problem or seek professional help.

I have been in therapy on and off since 1984 when my father was dying. This woman was a treasure to me. She even got back to me the night my dad was close to death. I am a true believer of therapy as we are not perfect and there are times in our lives when we just need help to get thru difficult situations. My rule of thumb is when I go to therapy and have nothing to talk about or feel I am bored, than it must be time to stop, as least for that time in my life. That is about where I am now with my current sessions with a social worker.

There are adults I have known that have never done therapy and to myself I say, I feel so lucky. It is like unzipping yourself in front of someone, someone objective, that is not a friend, lover, relative Someone you trust, but that person will NEVER let you fall on your face and will be there to catch you if you do.

I hope this is helpful to all you blog friends all over the world. Just because we are in different countries, does not mean we are immune from human problems and crisis. I would imagine there may be some cultures that do not see "therapy" as easy as others. In my life as a teacher and my personal life I have run across situations where people feel ashamed of their problems or the need for outside help. All I can say for myself it has been wonderful and helpful to live my life to the fullest.

Love, Joanie

PS. Another thought to is for a person to know they are in control of their own behavior and not out of control, even though it may feel like it. I have felt that myself. When my own therapist has brought that up, it helps to slow things down and not feel like everything is "out of control and moving so fast"

I worked at a camp a few summers in the Ozark Mountains. I was a Unit Head in charge of counselors and cabins of kids. The gentleman who was my boss was the nicest man. He was so gentle and someone that anyone could talk to. A few years later I found out he had committed suicide. I could not believe it and was in denial for so long. I don't know the details, but obviously he was very troubled inside. Some people said he "flipped out". It was very sad and i remember the warmth I felt for this man.

Shekar, Mallika and Gotham,
In evaluating the blog as we have talked about in another post I do feel it would be really neat to have contact links or 800 numbers or international #'s to places like crisis hotlines, around the world if they exist. They certainly do in this country, don't know about others. Maybe if you decide to do this, the bloggers could help by giving you the numbers, and then you just need to confirm them to see if they are right. Then you are providing these resources if anyone on here needs them and they have the choice to call if needed. Just a thought.....Joanie

Joanie . . . your experience is so interesting. I have to support your thoughts on therapy . . . it takes a while to find a connection and relationship that works - and as you mentioned - it can happen in stages at various points along the way. Simply having a non-biased person with no vested interest in your life is critical.

Dave - you havent been an arrogant fool - so forget about that thought!

Kristie, Ruth and Joanie . . . my deepest thanks and gratitude - I am glad to be here as well! Life is beautiful and I am thriving in learning how each of us celebrates in their own way.

Here is a test to find whether your mission on earth is finished. IF YOU ARE ALIVE, IT ISN'T.
Richard Bach

Wishing everyone an evening filled with an overabundance of celebrations . . . however insignificant they may seem! Thank you to everyone for creating a safe, supporting and engaged environment to discuss such a difficult topic. Take care . . . Laila

If u haven't been there--u can't imagine what suicidal thoughts r all about. It's not the thing of romantic poetry or lovely prose. It's born of pain & helped along by voices.
Uncontrolable voices. I know, those voices lived with me 4 awhile. Whenever I see a crazy person--and living in new york I c many, I bow my head and saw a prayer instead of dismissing them. I know what they r going through, unfortunately I believe it's all chemicle. I say this bcause I was a fairly happy person until (2 b cont)

HI All.
Laila, I am very happy that you are here and that you are finding joy and peace in your life. :)

When I was in my early twenties I woke up each day for a couple of years with a terrible feeling of dread, wishing I were dead. Then one day after contemplating suicide I was walking across the street and almost hit by a car. I was so angry! "I could have been killed," I thought to myself! That was when I realized I didn't want to die - I wanted to kill myself. After I saw the distiction, instead of killing I decided to make some radical changes(well, at the time, they were radical to me - most of you would probably just smile). I decided to take some risks and make some mistakes. I quit the therapy I'd been in which had helped me in the beginning and then left me stuck - knowing why I was so miserable, but with no real way out. I moved out of the home I shared with a friend, who was dear to me, but really stuck in her life, and got a new roommate (someone closer to my age and actually FUN). I dated someone I worked with (which was against my "rules")... etc...

I volunteer teaching yoga and meditation at a detention center for teenage girls. I was gone for a couple of months and when I came back I found out that one of the girls had hung herself in the closet with her shoelaces. I had never met her, but I couldn't help but cry. Everyone was deeply affected by her loss.

I heard this tonight: We have 3 identities - the one we project to others which is a lie, the one we tell ourselves we are which is pure fantasy, and the Self.

I want to help others to remember the Self. So that means I have to keep getting better at remembering which identity to build my life around...

Love, Kristin

brain surgery left me epileptic and in need of meds. Doctors really have no clue about how the brain works. By the time I was on my 4th doctor, I had bcome a pill pin cushion. I remember 1 night in particular, new pills had left me without hope, if u can imagine that. I cried myself 2 sleep that night. Then the voices started. Oh god, they do talk to u. They tell u where the gun is hidden. Or how high your floor is. Its just so amazing because taking (2 b cont)

I also know about voices as my brother is a high functioning Schitzophrenic. He graduated Magna Cum Laude at the University of Pgh, but can not hold down a job. He got it when he was 16 and is now in his mid 40's.

Deepak, I would be interested in your feedback from this....At 16 my brother hullicinated (prior to diagnosis of schitzophrenia). He then went into a catatonic state (not talking) for a really long time. One night he collapsed in the shower while in a psyche ward. They rushed him to the hospital and found out his colon was gangreen. He was given a colostomy bag. My father was walking down the hall and the psychiatrist from the hospital came up to him and said, "I just had a conversation with your son and..." My father and the rest of us were shocked as my brother had not talked in weeks prior to this. He would just stare into space. This particular doctor said that the shock of the surgury brought him out of the catatonic state.....it was very interesting how the brain did this. My brother was 16 then, he is now 46.

He is the best brother I could have. He is a gentle soul who struggles still with voices, does some volunteer work and is very bright. To know him you would not know he struggles with schitzophrenia. I used to feel very sad and helpless as I felt it was a wasted life...but now I just accept him for who is he, he is my brother and I love him so.

Love, Joanie

Comic Relief:

The Rat's Legs

I met a rat under a bridge. And we sat there in the mud
discussing the rat's loveliness.
I asked, what is it about you that has caused men to write odes?
My legs, said the rat, for it has always been that men
have liked to run their hands up my legs to my secret parts;
it's nature...

-Russell Edson

I don't know if ya'll have heard of this poet, but he's crazy, no matter how I'm feelin' when i read his outrageous stuff it makes me laugh in stitches.

If you all did not see this in a earlier post, it is worth the time....check it out...

http://www.theinterviewwithgod.com/popup-frame.html

On a much lighter note...someone just sent me this and it felt so good to laugh after all this heavy reading....Enjoy

WOMAN'S PERFECT BREAKFAST

She's sitting at the table with her gourmet coffee.
Her son is on the cover of the Wheaties box.
Her daughter is on the cover of Business Week.
Her boyfriend is on the cover of Playgirl.
And her husband is on the back of the milk carton.

WOMEN'S REVENGE

"Cash, check or charge?" I asked, after folding items the woman wished to purchase.
As she fumbled for her wallet I noticed a remote control for a television set in her purse.
"So, do you always carry your TV remote?" I asked.
"No," she replied, " but my husband refused to come shopping with me,
and I figured this was th! e! most evil thing I could do to him legally."

UNDERSTANDING WOMEN

(A MAN'S PERSPECTIVE)

I know I'm not going to understand women.
I'll never understand how you can take boiling hot wax, pour it onto your upper thigh, rip the hair out by the root, and still be afraid of a spider.

MARRIAGE SEMINAR

While attending a Marriage Seminar dealing with communication, Tom and his wife Grace listened to the instructor, "It is essential that husbands and wives know each other's likes and dislikes."
He addressed the man, "Can you name your wife's favorite flower?"
Tom leaned over, touched his wife's arm gently and whispered, "It's Pillsbury, isn't it?

CIGARETTES AND TAMPONS
A man walks into a pharmacy and wanders up and down the aisles. The sales girl notices him and asks him if she can help him. He answers that he is looking for a box of tampons for his wife. She directs him down the correct aisle.
A few minutes later, he deposits a huge bag of cotton
balls and a ball of string on the counter.
She says, confused, "Sir, I thought you were looking for some tampons for your wife?
He answers, " You see, it's like this, yesterday, I sent my wife to the store to get me a carton of cigarettes, and she came back with a tin of tobacco and some rolling papers; cause it's sooo-ooo--oo-ooo much cheaper.
So, I figure if I have to roll my own .......... so does she.
( I figure this guy is the one on the milk carton! )

W O R D S

A husband read an article to his wife about how many words women use a day...
30,000 to a man's 15,000.
The wife replied, "The reason has to be because we have to repeat everything to men...
The husband then turned to his wife and asked, "What?"

A woman and man were having a disagreement about who
should brew the coffee each morning.
The wife said, "You should do it, because you get up first, and then we don't have to wait as long to get our coffee."
The husband said, " You are in charge of cooking around here and you should do it, because that is your job, and I can just wait for my coffee."
Wife replies, "No, you should do it, and besides, it is in the Bible that the man should do the coffee."

Husband replies, "I can't believe that, show me."

So she fetched the Bible, and opened the New Testament
and showed him at the top of several pages, that it indeed says.........."HEBREWS"

The Silent Treatment
A man and his wife were having some problems at home and were giving each other the silent treatment. Suddenly, the man realized that the next day, he would need his wife to wake him at 5:00 AM for an early morning business flight.
Not wanting to be the first to break the silence (and LOSE), he wrote on a piece of paper, "Please wake me at 5:00 AM." He left it where he knew she would find it.
The next morning, the! man woke up, only to discover it was 9:00 AM and he had missed his flight. Furious, he was about to go and see why his wife hadn't wakened him, when he noticed a piece of paper by
the bed. The paper said, "It is 5:00 AM. Wake up."

Shekhar Kapur,

Thoughts of suicide are quite natural for humans.

Karmi

Dear Laila, If anything I have posted here has helped you in any way, I am certainly happy to have done so! Sometimes I wonder why I'm here, blabbering away! I send you my love! Patzi

David, I would like to know about the bi-location you have mentioned a couple of times. One of my friends, Kathy, and I were talking about something I think may be bi-location. By the way, I have sent you a couple of mental thoughts to see if you would pick up on them. Like Janet and I use to practice. So far you haven’t mentioned any. I might be a weak sender-outer. :)// I am following my own advice. Tuesday I’m traveling with a group to Chicago to see John Edward. (I noticed he’ll be in Denver in November.)Maybe I'll share your medium joke with him -- or maybe not. :) // Around my neck is a locket I wear everyday. In it is a photo of someone I loved who committed suicide. His name is David. I had felt there might have been a connection there when I first read your posts. Had a feeling he wanted to send some help your way. You have so much to offer here! I still think you would be such a great professor. I can see how you tune in to individuals, bring them together -- even the ornery ones! I think you would also be a great mediator. I am happy you are feeling better!!! Patzi

Am I afraid to die..

Have I ever thought of killing myself
hell yes
now that I look back it was drama

I felt sorry for myself
seemed like no one was paying attention...
so I guess it was my
karma
at that time and moment.

Am I afraid to die..
just a painful death
but no, I am not afraid to die
not anymore.

I have thought of what it would be like to look down at my funeral
what words would be read or spoken about my life

There are a few sayings that I have saved over the years...

The Guide
If any of us are to become teachers,
I believe a true teachers' gift,
is to guide a man's discovery of himself.
In truth we can only give what we have discovered for ourselves, feely and without intimidation.

Walter Rinder

To laugh often and much; to win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children; to earn the appreciation of honest critics and endure the betrayal of false friends; to appreciate beauty, to find the best in others; to leave the world a bit better, whether by a healthy child, a garden patch or a redeemed social condition; to know that even one life has breathed easier because you lived. This is to have succeeded.

Ralph Waldo Emerson

In 1974 when children were asked to write a last will and testiment, one of my campers wrote the following. She was 12 years old...

What gifts can I give you that others haven't given
What wish can I wish you, no others would wish.

What gift can i give you that no others can think of...

I haven't any gifts that others haven't seen...
I have no wish that others haven't used...
And I have no words that have new meanings.

The wish I'd give is happiness, the gift, friendship and the words..
I love you.

Creative Writing on the Sabbath, Camp Sabra,

~~~~~~~~~~~

In whatever arena of life one may meet the challenge of courage, whatever may be the sacrifices he faces if he follows his conscience....the loss of this friends, his fortune, his contentment, even the esteem of this fellow men...

Each man must decide for himself the course he will follow. The stories of past courage can define that ingredient, they can teach, they can offer hope, they can provide inspiration. But, they can not supply courage itself.
For this, each man must look into his own soul.

John F Kennedy

~~~~~~~

From one of my favorite folk songs...The Circle Game...last verse, as to me life is one big circle...

And the seasons, they go round and round
And the painted ponies go up and down...
We're captive on the carousel of time.
We can't return, we can only look behind
From where we came...
And go round and round and round in the circle game.

~~~~

And alas, I am off to the Big Apple on Monday for 3 days, so if you don't see me here, it is not that I died, I leave you with these last words.

Like the sunshine after darkness
or the daytime after night
like the rainbow after showers
making everything alright.

Like the spring that follows wintertgime, with hopes that never end...
May each new day bring joy to you my friends.

Signing off, goodnite..
Love, Joanie

THE ESCAPE .......

My father shot himself,
Execution style, so I am told.
He left a note on the TV Guide, which said,
“I am in great pain….”
I had not seen him in over 20 years.
So one evening shortly after his change,
I laid down and went into a deep trance,
Only to wake up in hell,
So that I could say good-bye.
My father was focused on his guide,
As he kept saying, I’ve got to go.
I grabbed his arm and hugged it
While he ran out the door
To join a woman who beckoned him.
As I watched in shock of his quick recovery,
The souls in waiting reached up
Touching my legs in hopes of delaying the visit.
I quickly woke up in fear,
But with the reassurance that my father was fine,
As he began his next journey.

At the age of 5, I was given the opportunity of change, but decided to stay a while. Maybe one day I will share my story of death....

Yep ... Shehkar, what if you shoot yourself and the bullet knocks out one of your eyes and you live!

As one knows its Self,
The two bodies are no longer useful.
We bound ourselves in this prison
only to look for ways to escape.
Experience can be painful as we grow
And live on the edge of life and death.

.... sometimes all I want to do is to go HOME as well .... it's our choice ....

Remember ... The pain always passes. I love you!

To feel, brings great responsibility,
While one enjoys the pleasures of life,
As the pain of living becomes the shadow.
Balance is the order of justice,
With a cup of pleasure in one hand
And a cup of pain in the other hand.
Makes a pretty mean drink and yummy too!

I used to think that once I stopped suffering, once I had overcome all my pain, that I would have learned my lessons - and then I would die. The meaning I had given my suffering was that it helped me to grow. BUT that belief tied me to my suffering and led me to think that salvation was somewhere else.

Freedom/peace/happiness/love... those things are not somewhere else. Home is not somewhere else. It is right here with me now, available whenever I can shift my perspective and realize the Self.

My conclusion so far is that we are not meant to suffer. Pain comes and goes in life and so does pleasure. But intense suffering is a tragic misperception, a misunderstanding between us and God.

Love, Kristin

Stephen, thanks for the "comic relief." Russell Edson seems like a riot. Laughter is great medicine.

Char, I keep wanting to say something to you but I'm never quite sure how. I feel like hugging you. So, if you accept, consider yourself hugged!

Joanie, thanks for telling us about your brother. Of course you love him. It's not what we do or what we have or how well we fit into ordinary society that makes us who we are. I suppose that knowledge is one of his gifts to you...
Have fun in the Big Apple!

Chantigo, I haven't seen you post here before. Welcome to the blog. I hope you are well.

Love, Kristin

Kristen -- I'm fine. I still have seizures, and I think that will be the way of my life, however after I took control of "the pills" and stopped being a pill cushion, those suicidal thoughts and voices started going away. When I think back to the five years following my surgery, and the last two specifically it seems like a faraway dream. Another person. The voices have stopped talking to me. The pain left too. I still do therapy, and Im constantly listening to Dyer and Campbell (the power of myth is brilliant) and all the books I have ever ready on these subjects have served me well.

Last week I got on board a NY bus with a gentleman, very well dressed, who was having an amazing and animated conversation with someone only he could see and hear. It almost looked like some strange acting excercize, but it wasnt. He was talking to the voices. If you haven't experienced those voices, you cannot imagine what it's like. And the pain that would lead anyont to kill him/her self is a pain so deep that suicide is not the ultimate act of selfishness, it really is just a way to find peace during a time where the mind, for whatever the reasons--surgery, emotional trauma--just, for lack of a better term, shorts out.

Camus (in the same order or otherwise) said something to the effect of suicide being the only rational choice.

Unfortunately, rationality is not a human strength. Rationality is a linear, uni-perspective paradigm.

Chantico, I am happy to know that you are well, that the voices have stopped and you are not feeling that amount of pain. I have not experienced hearing voices like that and do not know what that kind of confusion and pain would be like. I think that your experience puts you in a unique postion to have compassion for other people suffering in that way, such as the man on the bus you described.

I undertand your point the suicide is not only an act of selfishness. It's an act of utter desperation and a desperate plea for help. The tragedy is that once it's done, those that love and want to be able to help the person who has taken their life, are no longer in a position to help.

Love, Kristin

fortunately for me i talked about my voices and actually a close friend said that he was going to commit me if i mentioned it one more time. he heard me because coming from a family of cops, cops are trained in this area. and u see, the other thing about me is that i was able to work without a problem, it was when i was alone that it would get unbearable. i believe that people who want to kill themselves tell other people in whatever ways they can. unfortunately, this is a crazy hectic world we live in and sometimes people dont listen or better yet, dont hear.

Hi Patzi: I love your post. It is fun that you mention what you did--I noticed my own mind literally holding my image of you at "arms-lenght,' as if I was saying "hold on just a moment," but not knowing why!

You made me realize I am so focused on getting direction from my dream-state about what to do with my life--and how to get "there"--that I've closed off all the "psychic" channels from "outside 'input.'" (like that term?)

The seminar I was just at has one section, a does the more formal and lenghty retreat at the school itself, devoted solely to sending-and-receiving thoughts.

We did this on Aug. 5th--Friday night, as an opener to the seminar, and at first, I couldn't figure out why we only did slightly better than average--since I've been used to learning to receive "stuff" while simultaneously translating it through mediumship for years.

One of the world's most famous "mediums" is a super-high integrity fellow named George Anderson.

Several books about him by a radio-talk show host named Joel Martin and his friend Patricia Romanowski (sp?)--titles like, "We Are Not Forgotten," or "We Don't Die."--He is the most tested "psychic medium" in the world, and yet he claims, as does James Van Praagh (in some ways) that he/they are not very psychic--they differentiate the two phenomenon in a striking way.

But....I would love to find a way to develop a playful way to exercise these facets as it will surely help me when I get to that school.

I realized that I was like a wide-open radio station that was picking up stuff from the entire audience--particularly those close by, but not my "target subject" as much as I was focusing on.

Soo...my e-mail is dwhalljr@msn.com. We can use some of the basics I've learned and start working with it as it is not only really fun when you start "hitting"--it is amazingly practical as well.

Time and space are not obstacles as thought moves at speeds faster than light and so seems to warp both space and time.

Without the verification of feedback--you never get a harness on it and so it just floats out there willy-nilly and does no good. Look forward to playing--and there is no failure with misses--it is part of the minds learning.

I can't tell you how many times I'm getting stuff, names mayber, that the sitter can't tie down--and it frustarates me too--and then later in the reading, or days/weeks later, I hear from them with the big "Aha."

Like that professor who just wrote a fiction book, and I got 4-5 names immediately, over and over, and he didn't recognize any as people he knew, past/present/future--then it suddenly hit him that these were all names of his main characters.

Thank God he realized this or I would have walked away been thoroughly frustrated until I understood why I was "missing."

You'll love John Edward (his middle name as his "cop" father didn't approve so he dropped his real last name--Irish--and kept his Italian demeanor)--John is a "bull-dog" and doesn't let go once something starts coming to him.

He is truly excellent at sticking with his guides info. no matter what his outer senses--or the audience is confirming/denying.

The key is to play, not to "try to hard" and be our own judges. Dave

Chantico, my mom tried to kill herself a few times, the first time I was around 4 years old, and her father actually did commit suicide when my mom was a 18 or so. My mom said that if you really want to kill yourself and have actually decided to do it you don't tell people because you don't want them to stop you. I guess she was remembering the first time. The time she didn't want to be saved. She said she took the pills and my sisters and I were right there with her and she didn't know why but she didn't even think about us.

But I also hear what you are saying about how people who are desperate like that do try and tell you but we are often too busy to hear. I think that's at a point before they have actually decided to do it. Scott and I had a very good friend who killed himself about 5 years ago. Afterwards I remembered how he had called one night to talk and I had brushed him off because I was absorbed in my own mini-drama at the time. I still feel remorse that I was not able to sense that he deeply needed us. If I had been more present at that time I think I would have known and then perhaps he wouldn't have gone so far down the path he ended up taking.

Love, Kristin

Chantico: I wanted to also add to the other's here (I almost said, "to the other voices!") that wht you have shared is astronomically valuable.

Until you've been there--that person can't really judge you, or the "why" behind such intense desires to end the "noise."

For those who want visualizes on trying to comprehend just how real this stuff can get--"The Mothman Prophecies" and "White Noise" are both supposedly based on true stories--the first being the ordeal of a Washington Post reporter.

I wouldn't recommend either to anyone unless they are strong in their own sense of feeling centered--and their ability to find that center when knocked out of it.

I really like the courage both Chantico and Laila have shown here. In a recent psychology class--Human Growth and Development (from cradle to grave)--there was alot of cutting-edge information that simply wasn't available twenty or more years ago.

The suicide statistics and patterns were truly amazing to study. Particularly the differences between men and women, the age differences in rates, and the rates between Native American Indians and maybe indigenous Maori's.

It was Deepak, I believe, whose studies of longevity also showed a remarkable pattern: the indigenous peoples of Southern South America, with reported lifespans up to 175.

In one generation since getting cable TV and Budweiser beer--that pattern of longevity was broken and replaced by a new generation of males that went 67% diabetic (or some such figure). The same showed up in the Zuni Indians of the American southwest.

Does anybody disagree that our first-world lifestyles, and trying to maintain that paradigm, is a pattern that looks like collective suicide??

Think of the buffalo herds that were simpl stampeded over the cliffs--instead of bothering to shoot them individually--or the cattle in factory farms--and the terror that is flooding poisonous chemicals into their bodies as they knowingly sense their impending death as they are "prodded" through the gates.

I find that so many who feel suicidal are just confronting the seeming hopelessness of entire socieities moving at an insane pace, in an insane direction--and desparately trying to hold it together by calling it all sane--the new house, SUV, and complying with corporate policy to insure that raise.

It doesn't mean corporations are any more guilty than a piece of printed paper called money. It is what we assign to those entities that drives us crazy.
I mean--how many are expressing, individually, the psychic wavelenghts of our collective depression--feeling it for all of us, so-to-speak???

To lighten up--read, "Driving Your Own Karma," by Swami Beyondananda--if you can find a copy. Dave

WOW! What a cluster of emotions Shekhar has stirred up through his poem! Here's a story:

Ever since I can remember my Mom has been a drinker. She had an alcoholic father who assaulted her up until age 11. She told me that she laughed when he died of a brain tumor. His actions have continued to affect her life up to now. She has been in and out of therapy--mostly out, and had become addicted to different prescribed drugs. She has cut on her wrists many times and now has several scars. She did seek help, but I don't think she wanted it bad enough. Now she is seeming to behave in ways like a teenager would--making up for the times she missed as a kid. She continues to drink to numb the pain. She cannot let it go.

For many years I continued to let her actions affect me. I followed in the same sort of path, becoming addicted to smoking and two other "street drugs". I felt such empathy for her I went as far hurting myself in the same ways just so I could feel worse than her. Does that make sense to anyone? I thought about suicide many times, but deep down I knew that if I were in my "right mind" without all the chemicals, I would never do it. I am now 34 and two years ago I decided that I could no longer be a part of her decisions.

My life has totally changed. I have come back to "me". I keep myself busy with positive things. I have found myself again through talking with a "spiritual teacher", receiving healing energy, getting back into my art, reading Deepak, communication, and learning about self-love. I know I still have a lot of growing to do and this is only the beginning.

I like waking up in the mornings now, and stepping outside to see a beautiful sunrise. Everyday I look forward to talking with people and being in this life. I know why I exist. I HAVE WON THAT BATTLE WITH THE EGO!

P.S. This blog is so theraputic! Love to everyone!

"WHEN THE STUDENT IS READY THE TEACHER APPEARS."

I think it is amazing how this IntentBlog, has really come together and formed such a wonderful, loving and compassionate community. I don’t post often (mostly because I am not as articulate as the rest of you are) but I’m here daily, reading and growing spiritually.
Thank you everyone.
Love to all, Robin

Hi everybody, this is a most remarkable topic.Suicide is wrong. a person who has committed suicide is sent right back into another womb in a similar situation to learn the same lessons.But if the person is mentally ill and the depression and confusion lead him to suicide he goes to the otherside.I have learned a lot from reading all the threads.God bless

Robin, your words are just as important as anyone elses here....

I agree, Truth, to me the key is when someone "wants" the help, it works...

Allowing it will heal.....

Gjayaram:

You say that suicide is wrong. Your contention that it is wrong is based on consequences of the action, as opposed to the independent occurence of the event.

When you judge an event based on the consequences, (as opposed to the context), you negate any possible understanding of the event.

Good for you, truth!
Robin, if you feel the desire to post something, please don't hold back. I remember years ago when I first starting doing something like this. I thought everyone was so much smarter than I was and it took a lot of courage for me to say anything at all. It doesn't sound like you have that holding you back, but for myself I was afraid to say how I felt about things because I thought it might be "wrong" or someone might find I didn't know what the heck I was talking about and be judging me. Of course, it was myself who was doing the judging. And now I know that I really don't know what the heck I'm talking about! So no worries. Of course, if you don't feel inclined to say much that's perfectly fine too. I'm happy to know you are here.

Neha, that's really interesting what you said about judging an event based upon the context as opposed to the consequences.

Love, Kristin

gjayaram-- if you judge you will never learn. If you haven't been there you can only imagine. Wrong is a very strong word-- remember, there are more colors to this world. Shall we get into a discussion of absolute wrongs? I don't believe suicide is one of them, because there is no but. . . if you kill yourself or want to kill yourself there is something mentally wrong with you, otherwise why the urge. So dont judge. It's not that simple.

To change a behaviour or pattern that is not a healthy one, and whether that pattern is brought to us throught nature or nurture, it takes a long time and alot of work. Years of introspection and reading and listenting to those we trust. Along the way we find the truth of the matter and it is true what they say "the truth shall set you free."

One way I have found that helps me is to be creative. To always be in the state of creativity.

Thank you Joanie
Thank you Kristin
Thank you ALL...

Hi Robin: I just looked up articulate in the dictionary and....: of course you are "that" then as, among other things, it means: uttered clearly in distinct syllables (you just did that!), capable of speech (clearly you are that too!), and...well--one of my writing professors did me a great favor two summers ago by insisting I get a dictionary.

I thought I knew sooo...many words until I found myself suddenly reaching for new ones, or being confronted with new ones "I didn't know," a vertible "Pandora's Box" of happiness to find out that "what I don't know, about 'everything', far outweighs what I do know (or rather, might know) about anything!"

How fun!!! That gives me a really good reason to stick around and learn "new stuff," especially, since "A Course in Miracles" has one requirement--that is to "resign as my own teacher" (and most certainly my own, and everyone else's judge) and consider that I don't even know what my own best interests are--but "Spirit" does.

That is also why I tend to swing more toward the non-judgmental position about "suicide," too.

Dr. Wayne Dyer: "What we resist, persists!" Anytime we are judging anything as "bad," we are resisting it--wo guess what eventually happens (maybe not even in this life) to whatever we dny or resist?

The deep, deep denial the Cahtolic Church has imposed on so many--esp. it's own priests, is "supposedly" part, in not the entirety, of the problem with the sexual abuse--and we are not in a place any longer we can hold the lid down on everything that we've been denying for eons--that is why it is exploding to the surface!

In the psycho-spiritual "Holy--or Wholly" text I referred to--this work (ACIM) clearly states there is no "orignal sin." But....there are original mistakes, and a mistake can be forgiven and corrected, our notion of a true sin cannot.

Jesus taught that "sin" is an archery term that comes from the Druidic teachings--and means: to miss the mark.

The difference is that one implies "eternal guilt"--lovely thought!--the other implies correction, without punishment, for making a mistake!

So spiritually then, even if we do commit suicide--we experience the consequences of remorse on the "other side," and come back and try this life again. If we learn from "that mistake," is it a mistake then? Is suicide then "not wrong," at least in the grand scheme of our incarnations--to have learned such a valuable lesson?

The other thought on "this most sensitive and taboo stuff," is the old saying: Who better to counsel a recovering alcholic than a recovered alcholic--because he/she has been there.

And Robin--I disagreed with you "self-articulation assessment" before this post anyway.

Always, always, love came through your posts very effectively, soooo.....very articulate by definition then.

Also Robin, what better way to become more articulate than to "babble and ramble away," make mistakes (you sinning wench!), and have fun learning "new stuff."

How do baby tigers learn how to hunt--by playing! Love--Dave

GOOD DAY EVERYONE!

Joanie and Kristin: Thanks for your kind words. They made me smile. :) <-- SEE?

And to Robin: I have gone through the same process as you, thinking that nobody would be interested in what I have to say, or I might just sound like an idiot. Not true!! It's like Kristin said, it was ME doing the judging about myself. Self-judgement can be just as damaging. That's why I've been practicing self-love. See you on the next post!

Thank you for that hug Kristin ... hugging you right back (((((Kristin))))). Also, enjoyed your post above, especially the part about finding the home within :-)

Hi David .. Your posts keep reminding me that I need to get back to my reading of ACIM, as I so enjoyed the concepts very much. Thanks! I stopped about 6 months ago to play a little and now I am ready to focus on my spiritual growth again as I think I am withering away :-) I believe I was on chapter II and I was reading it off the internet. Have you read it all?

Love,
Char

Hi Char: I have loved your posts and....poems too!

Regarding ACIM, it is funny, life arranged for a unique way for me to study it, and everything else--ie., I wound up doing readings at the bookstore that I ordered everything from while I delivered pizzas six nights a week for almost 7 1/2 years.

I will never forget the May day that I inquired of the bookstore owner--called "Cornestone Books" (like the "key" foundation stone) about ACIM and she said she could order it but....since I had been going through Wayne Dyer's and Deepak Chopra's stuff on audiobook--while delivering, they just happened to have one audiobook verison of ACIM....!

I figured, well, that must cost about $750?? Nope, 42 tapes, both sides, for $140! I still have it right next to my new CD/tape player and I went through it 22 times during all those deliveries (I estimated about 28,000+- deliveries!).

It has only been in the last two years that I actually bought the book--which now sits about two feet to my "right" as I "write" this!

The interesting thing about ACIM is that one of the teachers at the seminar I just went to--with the guys who were in "What the Bleep...."--well they are all Ramtha's students--and this one teacher whom I had an immediate rapport with, Mike Wright, said he studied "The Course" for years also, but that Ramtha's school applied those principals in a way that doing the workbook over and over still doesn't accomplish--and...I agree with him.

I studied Ramtha's initial teachings during the 80's and then drifted away into my own experiences--so it is strange to have come full circle back to my most original interests. Hope this helps make sense of ACIM and other teachers--like the saying goes, "When the student is ready...." I will probably keep coming back to ACIM over and over--like a progress chart. Each time I hear it's words, or read it, it is brand new and hits me deeper and deeper.

Deepak's and Wayne's stuff means more and more and at deeper and deeper understandings as well. I watch Wayne on PBS over and over, and NEVER get tired of his message!

In my estimation, Wayne Dyer is possibly the most beloved human being on the planet--although Deepak and the likes of Sai Baba make it impossible to tell!

I simply don't know of anyone, from any background or religious persuasion, anywhere--that does not only "like," but openly loves Dr. Wayne Dyer, and in every way possible.

People love the combination of Deepak and Wayne even more than either singularly, if that is possible! Dave

Chantico and Joanie . . .thank you for sharing your remarkable stories . . . I hope you will accept some cyber hugs - I am enjoying including more people from this community in my daily prayers. I so value all the courage and perceverance that has been communicated on this topic . . . life is beautiful and I want to thank everyone on this post for coming together as a supportive & caring community. I hope Shekhar can hear the very loud applause that has resulted from his post . . .many thanks Shekhar.

Robin - I am chiming in with Dave and everyone else - please write - we would love to hear your inner voice - you never know how your experiences may help one of us. Trust you inner voice . . .we look forward to hearing it more.

Dave - as always - your words are poetic - thanks for helping us all ponder . . .and smile in the process!

Kristin . . .big cyber hugs for you . . . thank you for sharing.

TRUTH - thanks for joinng and participating . . .it is wonderful to read and learn from you.

Sending everyone loads of hugs for helping to feel like a global community . . . thank you. Joanie hope you are enjoying your trip . . .take care and namaste to everyone! Laila

What purpose would it serve really? We already walk in the valley of death. If you lived this long you might as well live longer!

Hi again everyone! I can't remember who it was or on which blog it was, but somebody recommended looking at "theinterviewwithgod" website. I would try to find that blog, but I am in the middle of making spaghetti, and I wanted to THANK that person for posting that while I'm thinking about it. So THANK YOU to whoever it was. Really inspiring website--I recommend it to anyone who hasn't seen it. Sorry if I'm on the wrong blog!;)

Hi,Neha,Chantico,Kristin,David,and all the others who do not agree with my opinions on this subject of suicide,please forgive me if I have hurt your feelings.I had posted it earlier,it is the 19th comment, I just wanted to add the thought about the mentally ill to that earlier comment.Here is a big HUG from me to all of you.I am sorry.
When I was 11 or 12 years old my most favorite maternal uncle committed suicide because he could not marry the love of his life.The grief,anger, shame,agony,pain,the terrible burden of guilt my immediate family, my extended family went through is indescribable.
We are all spiritual beings ,and we have come to this Earth to learn,develop,evolve,experience for God.We are here to learn LOVE.The first lesson is SELF LOVE.We must love ourselves,respect and cherish the divine within,nurture the soul and then love others and then we should try to understand you,I,we,they,he,she,it are all one.
One of the misconceptions about suicide is thinking,"next time I'll be more prepared and I'll handle things better."But that does not happen.
I may not be an authority on this subject, but I sure have been keenly interested.the following is taken from the book, "conversations with Yogananda"written by Swami Kriyananda(J Donald Walters.)
People who think to merge into the infinite by committing suicide only break their outer shell temporarily.They are still locked in the EGO.,which is implanted in the astral body and is the source of all their troubles.They must return,egobound to the material plane,Earth,burdened additionally with their karmic sin.Self murder or suicide is a greater sin even than murder.One can never succeed in this attempt. LIFE IS GOD.AND GOD IS LIFE
I do not know whether that made you more angry or less angry.I do not wish any harm to any one. God bless.

.

Hi G Jayaram: Is that right--how I capitalized the letters & initials?

I wouldn't to say that there is seemingly total agreement with the essence of this last post--and for me, not so much that suicide is a sin--per se, but rather, it doesn't solve anything on a physical or soul level--as your quote so aptly describes.

In an earlier post--I quoted a book called "The Nine Faces of Christ," about sin being a Druidic archery term that meant "to miss the mark" (and/or it's linguistic origin I'm confusing with another), and certainly Yogananda and J. Donald Walters' qoute parallels this notion.

I only wish to break the cycle of the belief in sin--as one can see--the EGO does overlay the soul well into astral develop and the cycle perpetuates both incarnationally & in the discarnate as well.

That is what one realizes (or as so aptly distinguished in a most recent post--"real eyes") upon findiing oneself dis-embodied in the astral--"It didn't work regarding solving the problem!"

And then the anguish of realizing that further compounds the "mistake," vs. the idea of sin--ie. correctable vs. irreparably evil and damned for all eternity.

If memory serves me correctly "G," you mentioned you are a pediatrician, and of course suicide would violate all facets of your composite view of life--as it "should!"

I think the point here is that sadness, grief, hopelessness, etc., can be so all-consuming that said states-of-consciousness maybe have their birth and maintenance supplied completely by the ego--but the point of the suicide would then be to disentangle from the ego's deadly and vice-like grip.

It has been in the hold of these "dark nights of the soul" (where the light of spirit's shining through the clothing of the soul is so diminished by the dark 'murk' of the ego) that teachings such as "A Course in Miracles" become soooo....relevant--because "The Course" explains, from a view above the ego's activities, what it is the ego is perpetrating on the perception of the soul!

Ultimately, it reveals that the ego is a terrified tyrant-of-the-mind that rationalizes it's survival is dependant on you (the host!) dying! In other words, to fulfill the ego's tenants, someone (namely you) has to die in order for "it's" validity to triumph over God's creation--which is the real you.

It is truly so insane how the ego works that when we "see" it for what it is--it staggers the mind, literally--that we consider this aspect of ourselves (earthly) worthy of running the show!

The ego is meant to be an earthly servant to the mind of the soul while incarnate--but....individually and collectively "we" have given this servant the dubious task of being the master--which of course "it" is not equipped to handle--so "it" fakes it and all forms of fear come from this imposter's masquerade! (false evidence appearing real)

ACIM states unequivocally that all poverty, sickness, war, lack, etc. comes from the ego's domination over our perceptions. That is why "the junk" of this world is flushing up en masse at this time---because it is so thick and it's results so staggering in the physical--that it is no longer sustainable and is clearly a runaway train of mass egotism and it's children--all whom are born of fear!

Believing this doesn't necessarily cause it to disappear immediately as we have to come to "know" this is true, like an enlightened being (light dispels darkness like the sun's light dispels the "darkest hour," which always before the dawn) knows this--and hence no longer "sees" this perception in a manner that dictates our normal "reaction" to the images of darkness as being real.

What a Catch-22 it is--fools us for lifetimes and eons because of how powerful and sophiscated the manifestations of our minds are!

ACIM clearly teaches it's students that to underestimate the power of delusion the ego is perpetrating on us is quite literally deadly!

So how do we become in a state of fearlessness towards this evil one (ego one--which JC states not to resist--as it empowers the ego as being real!)??? IE--E-veil, or the energy-veil-of- forgetfulness that "appears" to separate Heaven and Earth.

Give this stuff some thought, but only if it tugs at your soul's memory! The greatest medicine again is happiness and laughter--the ego is verily vaporized when the "light-heartedness" of spirit diminishes our "serious self-importance." Love--Dave

Dear Shekhar,
I have a different form to the same act you practice with a gun, i do it with a bike, unflinchingly, everyday.
Here's a slightly different take on your thoughts. Hope the poets ego in you, comes after me with a gun.
sAtyen.

everyday, life is killing me...

Everyday
I zoom by a probable death
I imagine my own life
I realize ...

Speeding, is the ultimate act of my stupidity
suicide, is the ultimate act of my leisure
Living, is the ultimate statement of my bored-self

oh my god !
and I thought I am dying anyways
and it had nothing to do with others
and yet,

as I accelerated to 100
my head was screaming,
notice me ! notice the bike!
recognize my individuality
recognize that the one you'll ram into,
also, perhaps, wants to die

how far will the mind go
to play games with me ?
is this a plate of scrambled omlette
full of littered time ?

is the mind so desperate
that it will kill the body
before ever realising
that everyday, life, is anyways killing me.

satyen

G jayaram, I don't think you offended or harmed anyone by expressing your viewpoint regarding suicide. And thank you for sharing your experience with suicide through the tragic loss of your favorite uncle. Some wounds, such as that never completely heal and we always feel the loss in some part of our being.

Our experiences, especially those things that affect us deeply, shape the ways in which we see and relate to the world and to the people in our lives. I remember when Mark, a good friend, killed himself. He was in his thirties, a martial arts instructor who owned his own school, had 3 teenage stepchildren who adored him and a daughter who was about 11 at the time. There was not enough room in the church for all of the people who came to his funeral, all the people whose lives had been touched by him in some way. I remember how shook up I was and completely stunned and how much I cried for him and for his daughter and all of us who loved him.

Around that time my mother had given me some prayer candles and on each candle were attributes, "positive" and "negative" traits that we each possess. As I looked at each candle and read the traits - greed on one, generosity on the other, love, hate, envy, posessiveness, etc., I thought about Mark. I asked myself in what way had he expressed that particular trait and/or in some way been destroyed by it. And then I asked myself in what way was that trait present in myself and how was it helping or destroying me. And for two days I one by one burned those candles- grieving and crying and thinking about and praying for Mark and thinking and praying for my own self too.

After those two days of burning the candles and contemplating my life and that of my friend, I knew that Mark was okay. Not that his choice had been the "right" choice and that there were not deep consequences for it, for his soul and those he had left behind. Not that I wouldn't have wished for the opportunity to go back and fix what had been misunderstood and broken. But I felt a sense of peace for him and for my own self too. That was when I resolved to change my life in significant ways. What I could see more clearly than ever were the ways in which I tried to control everyone and everything around me. And that was my resolve. To begin to let go. To begin to accept myself and others the way they were.

In a significant way, that was a beginning for me. After that, things began to change for me in a lot of ways. I left a job that had been unhealthy for me so I could spend more time at home with my young children. I learned to meditate. I began to find out who I really was.

Love, Kristin

dear jayram : I used to do that with myself when I was at Delhi University. Extreme risk - surprised I am alive today. Like stand up on my mobike spread my arms like christ - and hurtle down the highway - but the WRONG WAY ! - watching trucks desparately trying to get out of my way ! why did i do that ? why did it make me feel moew ALIVE ! Shekhar

Hi Shekhar,Suicide is the 8th leading cause of death in usa.But if you are between the ages of 15 and 24 it is the 2nd most common cause of death,accidents being number one.But some of the so called accidents are not really accidents at all.They are suicides.For every completed suicide there are 10 attempted suicides.2%of ER visits,5%of ICU admissions,10%of general medical admissions are due to failed suicide attempts.30,000 people commit suicide each year.All psychiatric illnesses are risk factors.So are medical illnesses such as,Aids,cancer,head trauma,organic brain syndromes,epilepsy,MS,spinal cord injuries,heart problems,lung problems,kidney failure,rheumatoid arthritis. socially,living alone,widowed,divorced,separated people at higher risk.personal loss which is recent,unemployment,financial legal difficulties,possession of fire arms prior suicide attempt,suicidal ideation,and hopelessness are risk factors.
This planet Earth is the worst planet in the universe.Almost 50%of the people we come across are negative.No wonder people.especially sensitive people want to end it all.It is not easy to live here and get on with our lives.I am truly sorry for those who have attempted to end their life.But I am also happy that they have overcome that temptation and braved the sorrows,the pitfalls,the tortures of this life and are still among us.The negative people are always taking advantage of the positive,and they are here for their own selfishness.you never see a negative soul attempting suicide.It is good souls who do it,because they miss their true home(the otherside)so much that they want to go back there.Those of you who are interested in "the other side" please read conversations with the otherside by Sylvia Brown.
Shekhar, since you are above 24 years of age,have a family,good job,lots of friends,especially gurus like Deepak,you are not at risk for suicide.I just realised this.So I shall not believe you.God bless you.

GJayaram: I find your comments to be superb on all of your points.

I even like Sylvia Brown--except I've got a problem with anybody who charges $700 for a psychic reading--she's good, but not that good!

But yeah--the "sensitive ones" tend to miss the "other side" alot. The same is said of those who have incarnated here from the Pleiades!

You are one very open-minded pediatrician! People like you and Deepak bring back enormous credibility to the tarnished reality of Western medicine!

Did you know that the British term for psychics and mediums used to "sensitives." You'd love a book called "The Return of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle," based upon the life and work of the medium Grace Cooke and her guide "White Eagle."

It is amazing what Sir Arthur pulled off after he "crossed over," as an experiment with his family (he wrote the "Sherlock Holmes" series and got his good friend, Harry Houdini, to become one of mediumship's greatest proponents--after spending much of his life trying to debunk psychic and mediumistic phenomenon as "all being fraud"). Thinking of you--Dave

Hi Kristen, I was really moved to read about Mark.Death is so final to us,so traumatic.I am glad you have forgiven me.Some times I am too Preachy.God bless.

Hi David I will see if I can find that book.I have heard Sylvia charges $1500.I have never had a reading from her either.I like her books a lot.I even like the tenets of her religion,Novus Spiritus.There are no dogmas in that religion.God bless.

Gjayaram, you're not too preachy. You've got opinions just like the rest of us and I enjoy hearing your perspective.

Love, Kristin

Hi Truth,
That was me that shared the interview with God site. It is truly inspirational. I have kept it and look at it all the time......

THanks for all your kinds words my friend. Have a great day!

Love Joanie
sending a smile :)

Dear gjayaram,
Somewhere I must have missed where you shared your profession as a pediatrician. How wonderful and thank you for all that you do to help children.

Hi Dave!
Hope you are feeling well. I can not believe that one charges so much for a reading! My goodness! I have enjoyed the spiritual guides that I have. I am trying to remember when I got them. It has been years. I do remember being at a seminar or something where they taught us how to find them. Does that make sense?

I have three..which I mentioned somewhere in these posts ways back. Interesting enough is a women who wears a Sari named Sariah who is always holding a baby names Lee and sits someplace always below my heart. The third is a man with a top hat "Himmilfarb" is always visioned on my shoulder with an english accent and cane in a tux!

Reading all that you share I have thought about why I have the guides I do and I think now being on this site was meant to be as "Sariah" opens me up to a culture I didn't not know much about. I think the baby represents my work with children and I think Himmilfarb represents my "artistic" talent within, in my case, that I am realizing how much I love to write since being on this blog.

Did you ever take that ride with your mom? I was so glad to hear about that...hope you only build this relationship in a positive way from now on.

Love, Joanie

I realise I might be out of topic but check out this collection of best song lyrics http://www.lyricshosting.com

iam so mad i just feel like killing myself because ever one is fucking maken me mad what the fuck should i do

thats exactly what i feel-email me i need someone to talk to

"What if you slept,
and what if,
in your sleep
you dreamed?
And what if,
in your dream,
you went to heaven
and there plucked
a strange and beautiful flower?
And what if,
when you awoke,
you had the flower
in you hand?
What then??"

Deepak Chopra

I have every 'reason' to give up.. but I try to hold on.. something, I guess...
Lonely, and deserted... and ill... noone to talk to..
I need a gentle human touch, a hug, I need a sweet word... nothing..
If it was not that sad, it would be surely hilarious...
I realise I do not dream any more... I only 'remember'.. and still I am young....
There is no 'desire'.. to blossom... to exist..
I hold on tight.. I want to start dreaming again.....
I want to believe I will 'wake'up holding that beautiful flower in my hands.....

wow u ppl r amasing, its great to c tht ppl out there r jst as messdd up as me, no afence :)

i was feeling great turmoil before i came to this page - i was asking 'how can we know truth when there is so many different religions and beliefs - which one is true'? but when i feel better, like now, i kinda dont care about this question, i just enjoy not feeling like crap. is desert rose still around?

Suicide's Note

The calm,
Cool face of the river
Asked me for a kiss.

-Langston Hughes

1 Q.
if u wanted to kill ur selfe, would u kill all the ppl u hate first?

1 Q.
if u wanted to kill ur selfe, would u kill all the ppl u hate first?

1 Q.
if u wanted to kill ur selfe, would u kill all the ppl u hate first?

1 Q.
if u wanted to kill ur selfe, would u kill all the ppl u hate first?

1 Q.
if u wanted to kill ur selfe, would u kill all the ppl u hate first?

1 Q.
if u wanted to kill ur selfe, would u kill all the ppl u hate first?

Hi everyone, i like others, have tried to take my life in various different ways..like trying to drink myself to death, taking tablets & drink.ive tried talkin to people about how i feel,but its like everyone says only i can change the way i feel and my outlook on life.
My problem is that altho this is true,it just seems too dammed hard to make the effort..and every day im just feeling more and more determined to take my own life soon.
The last time (drink & tablets) i got sooo drunk & took 12 very strong pain killers (i suffer from migranes & take them to ease the pain), i ended up falling asleep on the stairs to the local pub & waking about an hour later (NOONE even bothered to check to see if i was ok) and i was quite severally projectile vomiting BLACK fluid,i hadnt drank or eaten anything black, but it went everywhere..all over my clothes (and yes the did stain & wouldnt wash out). I was disapointed that it didnt happen the way i hoped it would..i ended up going to my sisters to get cleaned up before heading home. I still have these feelings of wanting to end my life..and they are getting stronger each day.