Deepak

Don't worry about it. Like it or not you are a guru. However, we human beings are not that great anyway. We are learning together - the guru and the pupils.

Love,

Sarah

beautiful and calling Self to 'look'!

you see...true signs of a 'true' tacher...smiling at you...

thank you for pointing...love, Carolyn

beautiful and calling Self to 'look'!

you see...true signs of a 'true' teacher...smiling at you...

thank you for pointing...love, Carolyn

-

Thank you Deepak and thank you God for having Deepak among ourselves. Above, I'm speechless.

sorry...about the double posting...

of course...maybe Self needed to say it twice! LOL!

Much love, Carolyn

I couldn't agree more with Deepak's musings here, and can attest to their validity from firsthand experience.

I spent some time around Deepak at last year's Alliance for a New Humanity conference in gorgeous Puerto Rico, including a long period of mutual silence in the business center as he tapped away on email and I cut business cards and bound books on interplanetary climate change that I had prepared for the attendees. I felt and witnessed firsthand that he was remarkably candid, unassuming and genuine.

Deepak was not walking around barefoot in flowing white robes and prayer beads; he was wearing a very ordinary black silkscreened T-shirt and pants, slightly faded from too many times through the washer and dryer, and a curiously unique, borderline eccentric pair of psychedelic rainbow-colored reading glasses.

Far from a guru, he looked like the kind of guy who might turn up at a blues jam and blow everyone away with one mean, guttoral, growling saxophone performance, only to disappear back through the curling smoke clouds into the darkness as soon as he leaves the audience slack-jawed in amazement. Hanging around for appreciation and free drinks was not necessary for this axe-man because he KNEW he had just paid off every single person in that crowd - and that was enough.

I did NOT feel like I was in the presence of a guru or a master; what I did feel was someone who had a strong appreciation for the burning questions of life. It was a quest for self-healing and understanding that had become married with a desire to serve others as well.

Since I have some intuitive ability and also can pick up a lot just from getting a look at someone's hands, I was surprised to feel how much intense difficulty he had been through, and was still experiencing. At first it threw me for a bit of a loop.

Gosh, I hate to be this blunt, but the psychic sense I got was that there was a "sleazy" aspect to him that he was aware of and working on every day (hence the blues-bar analogy), but was far from absent.

I also felt he didn't even really know if it was possible to get past it, or whether it was warranted to assume you COULD: and therefore life was oriented around the innate acceptance of its existence, with the understanding that all is acceptable and forgivable on the spiritual path.

I could totally relate to that energy as I am far from a saint myself; my ego never ceases to amaze me with its ridiculous prattlings and ability to maneuver me into situations it desires. For example, I somehow managed to "end up" sitting with the two hottest women at the entire conference for the big gala dinner, both of whom chose to wear impossibly cleavage-busting dresses that required no further mental elaboration, so there you have it.

Then when all these overwhelming fashion models started walking around in slinky dresses as part of ANH's fundraiser, I couldn't help but feel like the boy with the gold wrapper in Willy Wonka's chocolate bar. My ego had ARRIVED.

Should I have felt guilty about arguably having "the best seat in the house" of any guy there? I don't know. Was it bad that I was in an ecstatic state of arousal over purely physical things? Or was it just an experience that I chose to attach value to? After all, like everything else, this too falls away and I am still left with myself thereafter. This is why I stopped doing drugs 13 years ago. The "high" is ultimately a transient distraction from my deeper purpose. That much I have figured out.

Anyway, getting back to my initial intuitive senses in the business office, later on I told my mother about this "hit" I got on Deepak, including the choice one-word euphemism I had come up with to explain the perception, and she hissed back: "David. You shouldn't SAY that about Deepak!"

It was as if I had just urinated on the corner of this shrouded citadel of Wonder in the sky and the offense had rained down on my mother in her disbelief: "THAT is what you got from spending that much time next to Deepak?"

I was willing to accept that I could have been projecting and that in reality was just using Deepak as a mirror, and finding aspects about his character that were flaws of my own. Any public personality is going to experience rampant projections like this from the people aware of his work.

So whether this "hit" was real or just my own projection, the bottom line was that somehow in the midst of all this apparent personal turmoill, Deepak had built a marvelous machine for elevating consciousness and bringing about world peace. In that sense he was an inspiration. He was doing it, and it was WORKING. It was a very calming force to juxtapose his distortions with his achievements and simply experience that as an awareness.

Unfortunately, there in the business office (well before the gala dinner), my associate crashed in on our little silent communion... with the breathless energy of a "follower." Oh Christ. She was quick to point me out and introduce me to Deepak.

This was the last thing I wanted to happen, as suddenly it broke up the quietude of the moment and forced an introduction that I felt was premature and unnecessary. I was no longer an equal, perfectly happy with the silence of working right next to him for a few hours... I had become another "somebody who wants something." Ugh.

Not even the womb of the business office, and the warm anonymity of the computer screen, was "safe." Once again the "boundaries" game would have to be played; simply put, how do you EXIST in this world when you're a "mark" for untold millions of people, wherever you go, who hope they are going to "Get Something" by meeting you?

I tried to wrap my mind around the unbearable complexity of Deepak's life, having constant interpersonal exchanges with the requirement of keeping them very short in order that he might still have time to "be a person."

Plus, when you're known for lecturing on spirituality and human development, you can't just "blow people off"; somehow you have to be present with each soul, seeing that person in their innate balance/imbalance and offering total acceptance, and then also be able to quickly move on well before their own ego would prefer. You have to survive, you have to get where you're going, and you have to leave energy for yourself.

Rock stars can spit beer, Sean Penn can throw punches, Britney Spears can swear at the paparazzi, but for someone like Deepak, ONE MOVE can be broadcast around the world: "CHOPRA EXPOSED!"

People are so quick to rush to judgment about someone else's character that they feel that one little slip-up can effectively invalidate the entire message. We see this ALL the time in today's sound-bite-driven culture. All it takes is one single event, one single moment of weakness, to wreak untold havoc upon Reputation.

I am also a personality in new science and metaphysics and do about one conference a month. I have had plenty of experiences of being mobbed by would-be "followers" and have often felt just like Deepak - that desire to do something so outrageous that NO ONE could legitimately hold up that pedestal any longer.

I admit that I do not have Deepak's level of "polish" when it comes to disengaging from people. It must be something that comes with great practice and repetition. I often find myself having people hang on me well past my feeling of comfort. And there is always something unsettling about taking care of your own needs when you are aware that someone else is feeling disappointed at the same time.

Since I am now contracted to do a Hollywood documentary about consciousness science and our collective struggle to usher in a Golden Age (am currently finishing the screenplay and will be moving out to LA soon), these issues are of course on my mind. I will be far more "recognizable" once this groundbreaking film comes out.

I do have a few niches where it would be nice to have Deepak in the film, including a rather pivotal statement he is tentatively slotted for towards the end of the film about world peace, and I hope we can get that interview. We've got about 47 scientists on the call list for interview, right on the cutting edge of intelligent design, consciousness sicence and the like, and this could open many doors for a whole new wave of seekers.

In the meantime I can say that my experience with his human side was an inspiration for me to go ahead with this plan and be unafraid of its implications, even while knowing how innately flawed I remain along the way.

- David Wilcock
www.divinecosmos.com

This reminds me of the book Siddartha, by Hermann Hesse, in which Siddartha, the main character, renounces Gurus and teachers (he declines allegiance to the Buddha while his companion Govinda wholeheartedly embraces becoming the Buddha's disciple) and decides, as a young man, that wisdom and true knowledge of the Self is gained not by following any teacher, but through self-experience and inner guidance. At the end of the novel, when Siddartha is much older, he realized that he was correct not to follow any particular teacher, but that everyone and everything in his life had something to teach him. The messages of the book have reverberated through me deeply since reading it. So, while I do not follow a guru, I find inspiration and enlightenment from books and writings such as yours (you've been one of my greatest "teachers"),and from learning through my own experiences.

Todd

flawlessly articulated

flawlessly articulated

"Is your ego still getting in the way?" The reply is always yes.

But it's an enlightened yes, since spiritual growth does, bit by bit, exchange the limited, bounded, selfish "I" of the ego-personality for another "I" that is open, universal, and unselfish.

maybe nice comments in the topic,

Neale Donald Walsh, CwG 3, p. 195,
´...
You see? You are getting this. You´re remembering now how it really is, and you´re having fun with it!
You´re returning now to ´living lightly´.
You´re lightening up. This is what is meant by enlightement.

Cool.

Very cool. Wich means you´re hot!...´

Anthony Robbins, Time of your Life manual,
p. 176, Code of Conduct, Celebrating your Life,

Do not follow me, for I am not your leader.
Do not lead me because I will not follow you.
Please, walk beside me now and be my friend.

And of course, closing with Robbins´..

Live With (love?..and..) Passion!!!!!!!!!
;)

Talking about Siddhartha, I think the movie version was one of the most beautiful films ever made, particularly for its spectacular imagery and I think the movie itself has a peculiar calming effect as at the end of the film, you realize that at the end of the day, each human life is but a cog in the wheel, as you come back to the source, no closer at the end of life to the truth than at the beginning.

I have been always fascinated by the wheel, the circle, the no beginning, no end system where everything flows, like a river, endlessly and without any perceptible starting or ending point.

I think there is a point here as the circle tends to dominate everything, as if reminding us of this principle that you have no beginning, no end, only an endless journey. Where it will take you, what is your destination or goal, that is unclear. However, you are on a journey of some kind and if you look everywhere around you, the world and the universe are literally circles of light, from the tiniest cell to the largest stars. No other form or shape dominates nature like the circular form.

The seeker is also trapped in that same circle in his or her quest for truth. I would agree with Deepak that a 'guru' or teacher is necessary only upto a point. I think the guru or teacher can point you in the right direction, give you some tips and that's it, the rest is entirely up to you.

When you are young, your ego state is dormant and as you learn, you absorb more and more, cluttering up this state with knowledge, most of it becoming attached to your own perception of who you are. In a sense, all learning forms an attachment to our egos and the key to development is to completely shatter this stage as you begin to shed or 'unlearn' in later years by breaking up your ego or letting it go.

The point I'm making here is that we realize how wrong we were only at a later stage in life, when knowledge begins to taken on a perversely inverse kind of role. The older the get, the more you realize how much you don't know. Earlier, your emphasis was on learning and you sought to know as much as you can. I don't know if I'm expressing myself correctly but as you gain knowledge, you become more humble, more accepting, less rigid, more open and overall, you find a greater peace in knowing that ultimately, you know shit about anything. It's a hard thing for the ego to bear and people who have gone through this phase may be surprised by the paradoxical nature of it.

Deepak,

I think you miss something. First of all, I love your daily writings and your books and speeches. The fact that you love all this communication has to be ego based to some degree.

Second, I think your celebrity, at this time in humanity, in this country, with all the material and non-material benefits it affords you, does have attached to it, whether you like it or not, an obligation to the world in which you have a communicative power towards. In that sense, you are a "guru" or "teacher."

If you don't want people to follow you, you should stop benefitting from all that the people give you (attention from your writings, money from your book sales, etc.)

I do not feel you are at the level of, say, a Yogananda, but you are close! The difference, I wonder, is that you are still struggling, in my opinion, with materialism. You say you are detached from it, but your writings also appear to struggle with the fact that you still like material things (nice car, home in LaJolla, flying first class) with trying to not need them.

The true gurus of this world, truly had no interest in those things. Nevertheless, in this day and age, your knowledge, love and words are an enormous source of help to the rest of us.

Namaste!

Yeah, affluence is a good thing!

Namaste!

with passion!

and abundance too!

in any way, form or sort, baby!

It´s all good!, create..., share..,

homework..

Love, and, you want to end ´poverty´? start with yourself..

This is for mason gunther, you said: The true gurus of this world, truly had no interest in those things.

Define "true gurus". And if true gurus had no interest in those things, it makese them true?

Why would a true guru have to be detached from this world to be a true guru? What would they be achieving to be true by detaching themsselves from this world?

Deepak,

I remember the exercise you took us through to find our spirit profile....I am curious if you are willing to share, who are the 3-6 people biblical, political or religious leaders that you have admired or made a difference in your life?

~joanie

Joannie,

If you go to
http://www.peaceisthewayglobalcommunity.org

You can register and do your soul profile and view Deepak's here is part of it...

5. Who are your heroes in myth and legend?
-Mahatma Gandhi
-Mother Teresa
-Nelson Mandela
-Buddha
-Jesus
-Krishna
-Florence Nightingale

Dear Deepak,

I am learning so much from you.
Thank you!

Hi Joanie,

here is a link to Deepak's soul profile:

http://www.peaceisthewayglobalcommunity.org/Masters/DeepakChoprasSoulProfile.aspx?Username=

Love to all,
Robin

Boy, Deepak, people give you a hard time, don't they? I share a teacher, that is a guru with you, and am here on my own. The teacher is the moment, the day here that I'm obligated to go live. It's looking, seeing, desiring insight that makes this so. This doesn't feel egotistical to me. It's about as humbling as it gets, relying on whatever comes my way, whatever there is in life that challenges me, bothers me, frustrates me, or on the other hand, blesses me, lifts me, informs me, encourages me. Books, people, situations, my own negative triggers to daily events, these are my guru. They kick my ass, they laugh at me, they embrace me, they say, YES, that's good when it is good, they keep me company. I never feel alone at all anymore, despite being a relative hermit and relatively poor. It's really rich, and not much food for my ego, thank God. Anyway, there's my two cents. From the heart, Namaste.

Hi Deepak,

I can imagine your discomfort at the title of "New Age Guru". But there's a ring of truth in it too :) I think you're stuck with the title now.

It's not easy to keep the balance both for the gurus as well as the disciples. The gurus begin to take themselves too seriously and the disciples tend to idolize. But there are times when everything is perfect and then there's nothing like having the good fortune of having a guru.

That´s right, baby, because..

This moment is, as is..
because..
the whole universe is..
as is...

Dharma is a good thing..

;)

And now I´m gonna get a beer,
or pint, or two,
in the studentpub across the international studenthouse I live in,
http://bbqsroofterraseih2005.blogspot.com/
and see what kind of ´applepie´the new
semester of exchange...

Spamm ya all later,
Love, Passion, and a Party!!

Deepak, you have an interesting definition of a perfect master. "someone who can tell, moment by moment, precisely how to challenge my hidden ego and how, moment by moment to show me my higher self"
That would be perfect!
No one like that has shown up for me yet though, either. I'm guessing that I'm not ready for that big of a shattering of all my illusions yet. But I want to be ready.
Love, Kristin

Dear Deepak and everyone--wow, very stimulating reading on this blog. I have learned so much today. Thanks.

I have often struggled with detaching myself from people I might refer to as a guru, (including you Deepak) and what I eventually came to realize is that these are just people (who I sometimes think are on a higher level of awareness and knowingness) that I have chosen to learn and gain knowledge from.

When I come across someone who has answers I'm seeking, I wonder why it took so long to find them. I think it is okay to have gurus in our lives to help in our progress and point out certain directions. I think the people that I have chosen to call a guru are to a degree, a higher extension of myself.

So during the state of a sort of "guru worship", I think, in the meantime, it is a wonderful way to grow and evolve.

You Deepak, will I'm sure, always be thought of by many people as a guru and I really don't think that is a bad thing.

Again, thanks for the stimulating topic.

I think life itself is the biggest "Guru".I saw four things today and it will stay with me forever.I felt like modern day siddharth...who had seen so much in a day.I work in a hospital,i took care of a young woman,she had endometrial Cancer and can never have a child.I saw such sadness in her eyes,as she was looking outside the window and told me "now i know for sure i'll never have kids".I saw fear in the eyes of an 84 year old woman,she had alzheimers.She was not able to remember what she did after breakfast.I took care of an other woman who had parkinsons,she asked me "do i think about my ancestors?" She was old with furrows in her cheek.Bony angular face ,snow white hair,straight upturned nose and deep blue expressionless eyes,i was stunned by their blank expression.i replied to her that i think about my ancesters all the time,they are in me.I am thier representative in 21 century.At the end of my shift i saw hope in the eyes of a mother,and she knew her 23 year old son will not make it.His cancer had metasized but they wanted to try some famous pfizer trial cancer drug.Her son had less than 4 weeks.She had hope and she believed anything can happen.They wanted to try surgery even with the risk of paralysis.I feel very sad and am not sure if this is a suitable thread for this discussion.I believe these are all signs from GOD to tell me that i have more than enough in my life.Let this experience be my guru and guide me when i whine about gas prices!!!

Are not the students of "the Guru" the Guru's greatest teachers!

The movie, "Guru," with Heather Graham, certainly didn't help your 'guru-ish' image Deepak--but it is still a fun movie!

Like Wayne Dyer calls himself as "a Messenger," you are a great teacher of life Deepak--because you are a great student of life--so people trust your wonderfully developed mental/emotional and soul-level abilities, and we are thankful that these abilities are active in the likes of people such as yourself--those abilities show us what "we" are capable of learning, acheiving, and even going beyond--in time!

And....people love you for being-the-Being you are!!! They love you for taking the whole task of life on, to the "nth degree," and learning to "master" it! And...some people are jealous of your success as a teacher/doctor/writer, etc.--just because you are good at what you do--and their current negativity doesn't stop you!

Sooo....it's all good Deepak--just like you "just want to be you (maybe tilting more toward the 'higher-Self-soul-level part!)--your fans and friends also "just want you to be you" and they love you for having the courage to "do it"--by "Being It!"

Much appreciated you are the "human doing" that you are being--Dave

Hi Deepak,Please,Please do not do anything totally outrageous.We promise we will not call you a GURU any more.God bless.

Ok then, you are not my Guru and I have no label for you...AND I graduated a long time ago. :P

God bless you Andaleeb. You know the worst thing I have seen in my life is in the eyes of a nurse (I'm not sure if you are one or not but I'm just making my point). The eyes of an experience nurse which tells me "I have seen all ... been there, done that, what's next?". This is the most scariest thing I have seen and I hope not to see it again, but I know its there for others to see.

I also know that life is creating something worse for those who are or were in that stadium either suffering themselves or working for others. The horrible experience of life itself in that arena built for entertainment now turned out to be a great guru of all those who suffered to live through it.

Life is indeed a guru who can well live on its own without any words of wisdom. Deepaks of this world are just human beings capable of transforming themselves as a signpost for others to guide them out of the hurricane's way.

Char, I haven't seen your name come up on this blog yet, but I left something for you on Mallika's post "The National Dialogue".

Deepak, I am eagerly awaiting your appearance on LK tonight. Thanks.

Deepak,
I have always searched for a kind of guru who could show me a bit of light but I have failed.So I thought many times it might be my ego. Having read you,I am convinced that individual spiritual needs or doubts can not be addressed by a guru.After a certain period,we got to find our own way as Buddha says "Appa Dipo Bhawa" meaning "Be the guide of yourself".

That's funny, Geeta. I wanted to tell deepak, "yes, do something TOTALLY outrageous! Step right out of your comfort level!" I think it would be good for him to be completely out of character like that. Of course, I don't know... maybe he already expresses the outrageous part of his personality (with good friends).

Love, Kristin

ps. Did I remember your name right, G Jayaram? (sorry if I got it wrong.)

Not so long ago the American media took down one of our "New Age" gurus. I'm sure he helped in some ways. No one is a victim of circumstances.

I know for a fact that he did not want to be revered as a "guru". In fact he wasn't a "guru". In a way he was just a guy in a diner that had some powerful insights that impacted the lives of millions of people world wide.

He very much utilized the trappings of the life style that a "New Age Guru" affords. Who wouldn't?

He did not "live" for these trappings. He did not do the work he did for humanity in order to receive these "trappings" or maintain them. They came with the territory.

Once he asked Buckminster Fuller to participate in his basic course of transformation. Bucky's response was that he (Bucky) had committed his life to showing "every man" that the individual could effect great social change as the individual. Needless to say he (Bucky) declined our "New Age Guru's" invitation in order to continue his own one man mission.

Like Bucky I don't much subscribe to "guru's" or organized transformational systems. It's not to say that "gurus" and organized transformational systems don't have a place in the scheme of things

I also like the references to Herman Hesse's "Sidhartha".

For those that put a premium on the life and example of the Buddha, his last words (I wasn't there so I can only pass on what I've heard they were) "All created things pass away. Work out your own salvation diligently". This in some part was a response to his followers asking him what they were to do now that he was about to leave them.

I have had many "gurus". At the same time I have never had a "guru".

One day I was sitting in the modest home of a man everyone was calling Baba G down the back side of upper Dharamsala. I didn't know that every other Indian holy man was called Baba G. One day I asked him what he would be doing for the day. He looked at me and said, "Today mind go walking in the woods. Maybe mind go buy mango in the market". I left him soon after. Actually didn't really know him at all. I have gotten more out of that one response than the 10 years I spent around "my" "New Age" fallen "guru. And I got a lot from my "New Age" fallen "guru".

Thank you all for the links to Deepaks list...Like we have our "mentors" in life, so does Deepak. Personally, I think we all have "gurus" or people in our life that inspire and teach as we are the same way to others. Spread the wealth as they say.....it is priceless.

~joanie

Hi Kristin,You did get my name right.Well,if us calling him Guru bothers him so much,I thought we will just call him Deepak.We can always think what we want.Can't we??God bless you Kristin.Geeta.

Yeah, you are right Geeta. There is no need for us to call him Guru even if we think it. I don't think of him as guru anymore, but he was the first person I ever thought of in that way. Before that I thought people were nuts who looked up to someone like that. Someday I'll tell you my guru story. Or part of it. It's really pretty interesting. And it's sweet the way god gives us just what we need when the time is right. At least in the guru department.

Love, Kristin

Dearest Deepak,

You are wonderful! Thanks for explaining all this and sharing your great wisdom. Well, I don't think I am ready to let you go ... not just yet :-D Just pretend I am not here :-) Hey, when I become you, then ... just maybe I will unlock the doors of my prison and 'fly with the angels,' as Rumi so eloquently puts it. I love you! ... and THANKS! What you give to me, I will give to others, as I am able and capable to do so.

Love, Char

“I'd much prefer to take a behavioral approach and simply check in on how the ego is doing, for we all know our egos better than we know anything else.”

“A perfect master, as I would define it, is someone who can tell, moment by moment, precisely how to challenge my hidden ego and how, moment by moment, to show me my higher self, which can be hiding, too. “

“The greatest progress on the spiritual path begins, I am convinced, once the self trusts the Self."

“..those voids and uncertainties and imbalances return. They are yours to work on, you and your inner teacher”

"My teacher really is me."

~ Deepak Chopra

Some of my favorite quotes from Deepak’s post above. I call my inner teacher the Holy Spirit, which I think is similar to the Self that Deepak speaks about.

Love,
Char

And yet when all is said and done there really is not anything new under the sun.It truly has been done and said- all these things we now believe are new.Human history reveals gurus and folowers throughout its course and often the paths of these two are inseparable and destined .
Our guru appears wehen we are ready.
Your followers whether you like e it or not are all ready.

Eldora

Dear David ... Just read your post and found it interesting, as well as enjoyable. Good luck. Love, Char

Hi Char: Good to hear from you--I've noticed you've been in the "middle" of these discussions lately!!! A big hug to you--I very much enjoyed your story about your son and "moving cig's around." Very good story about 'true power!' Love--Dave

Hi Deepak

It is a wonderful idea to be detached from the guru idea, but this can outgrow into an addiction.
I had a similar background like you. Let the guru concept be, just accept it. By doing so you have full control over it. That's functional, right?

And just don't think to much about it. You are jnani spirited.

You are already GOD (LIFE), and you sense it NOW much more than 10 years ago (comparing what you are writing presently, and what you wrote in the past).

Regarding doing anything totally outrageous, you are already being and doing it. You are not normal, "only" outrageous natural.

More and more you will be known as a big shape-shifter (revolutionary of unconditioned love and peace). Rest assured.

One more thing.
In relation to the EGO, the point you made was:
"Something feels true to your ego if it answers the following questions): Does it feel good or help me to avoid pain?"

Well, I feel that FEELING GOOD is totally and absolutely positive.

By the way the ego is our sweet little child. It is hankering for our motherly attention. Don't fight it, adore the ego. Make friend with it.

Recently I gave a treatment to an retired young police man who shot himself through the mouth in the head but didn't die. He read one of my books, got coincidently my telephone number, and finally I attended him.
After a treatment of 30 minutes he had a moment of great enlightment in which he realized his negative attitude toward his EGO.
I made him remember to embrace his ego, rather than resisting it. That was all I did. For weeks we stayed in contact and as I know he got strong again.

What a privilege to be in contact with all of you.

Love
Johannes M.M.

Johannes: Your post reminds me of how "evil" (the energy veil of the ego-mind that separates Heaven and Earth?) was referred to by JC--"Don't resist it!"

Other teachers simply put it as: What you resist persists!

Very much like the ideas and example you just put up--especially how you ended it, "What a privelege to be in contact with you all"--and isn't it fun! Dave

deepak,

what is the defination of a guru?if you know the defination of a guru then you can easily find out whether you fit in that defination or not.

While reading Deepak's views about the lady who wanted to be herself, the first thought that went through my mind was ' Hey, she's right. I too want to be me.' Then I went a step further and thought 'I don't want to be Deepak, or anyone else for that matter. I just want to be me.' Felt very good about it too!

I am I'm the type of person who really doesn't think on his feet all the time. It takes me to time to digest and put it in perspective, the guy who is useless at live debates. I like to mull over stuff.

Interestingly, when I looked again at my first reaction I realised that the reason I don't want to be Deepak or anybody else was because of my ego. I was insecure, knowing that I'm not as wise and well read as the others are and am quite secure in my own little world and have learnt to cope with life - with my inadequacies -as best I can. Moreover, I am not ready to now to make that extra effort to make myself a better 'me'. Ergo, ego says 'shelve it, it's not important.'

All this has nothing to do with gurus, leaders and followers which is the main theme here. Yet, I have, because of what I have read here, discovered another 'truth' about myself. Having realised it, I hope I have the grit to follow through and do something about it.

Time will tell...............

Brilliant Dara Cooper! You have so got it! It is not about Gurus, Leaders, followers or even Deepak so to speak. They are all merely objects of pojection by the ego. The reason the ego turns such a baleful eye on them is only because they threaten our very core, and come closest to reminding us that our 'higher self' awaits the end of our tireless, churlish ego. No wonder, 'you who usually muse'got a quick, confirmation from your ego that 'we like us the way we are.' What is intersting is that you mulled nevertheless and made this amazing connection. And now whatever you do with the realization it will still be only about you. Even if you say, "aha this man Deepak has the power to split my illusions even fleetingly, perhaps he is the Guru/teacher/whatever I need am looking for." Even then how you perceive him in the future, access him or seek transformation through him will always be about you. All other chatter in us about the so-called Guru is just a noisy, muscle-flexing ego.

Needlessly we hang this heavy cross at the door of the Guru/master asking him to perform the saint/sinner dance, the 'certify that your feet are not clay but fortified cement' etc, etc. When have we ever heard that a Guru is running around is the world announcing, :"I am the one, follow me or else." Never really! At best we hear them repeat ad nausum, find the guru within, the light lies in your soul, you are Brahman, I am only a messenger sharing what I know etc etc.

Witch hunts nevertheless have been part of Gurudom and messiahdom since time immemorial. Usually led by disgruntled disciples who never took responsibility for their own projections and desires. I think what everyone seems to miss is that the 'Guru' exists throughout history and more so in the modern times because man's yearning and desire is unabated. The desire to find a charismatic, perfect, superman who he/she can deify. Armed with this tall order we lasso the Guru in with our projections, convoluted needs to romanticise and desperate desponedncy with the world and its harshness. The untenable (and hugely askew) expectations naturally can never be met and we set ourselves up for what we scream out as 'the feet of clay'. Really who could possibly fit the bill???

The mystic Osho had a wonderful quote:" I want your faith in me before you offer me your love. For your love is an endless projection of all the heartache and rejection you have learnt in this world. Now you will want me to be the father, mother, lover, son you never had and since I can nevr be that you will be enraged and disappointed. Let the faith teach you how to love who you are, then it will be possible for you to love who I am."

Nice example, of a Guru, Osho,

Wasn´t he the one with the 30 or so pink Rolls-Royce´s and a ´commune´ guarded with people with guns?

Mesmerizing, hynotizing and brainwashing poor souls? getting them to give their ´worldly´possesions and...

Hhhmnn... stand guard at the door of your mind!

Love, Passion,
and self, internal, refference,
and Q- Question: dogma, authority, theology,
for the purpose of not falling in the trap of (social) hypnoses,
from: affluence program

marek

bravo. its good to know the witch hunters are alive and well. Just to add grist to your mill, it was 90 rolls royces.

´action speaks louder than words´..

in the case of..

haha, yeah, it was someting like that,

freakin´ weirdo that Osho!

sure, he had some nice words of ancient India
spiritual teachings te say,

but come on! (and the Rolls Royces had dots on them, what the ...was that all about?)

Love, Passion and quantum healing,

Swami means master of self. As a guru he has mastered his lower self (emotions and thoughts), and therefore can show you the way. The blind is no longer following the blind. It is our medeavil heritage of kings, lords, and peasants, that keeps us from embracing God as our best friend and lover, instead of as an object of worship, albeit, at arms length. "The Self that is self's friend can become Self's foe if self hates Self as not itself."--the Bhagavad Gita.

Sorry, in the Gita quote previously, I put those capital "s" in a wrong place, I think. It is something to ponder, that quote, and gets confusing.

This is in response to David Wilcox's observations about Deepak. David picked up on very valid cues. Having met Deepak at Seduction of Spirit in Goa, and seeing beautiful women look at him with adoration and lust, I've always wondering HOW has he managed not to succumb. And I sense he has a healthy libido too. Sexuality and Spirituality is such a potent combination and to stay on top of it without making a SINGLE mistake is one heck of a price to pay. As they say, "the higher the leader, the greater the fall".
So how do you do it, Deepak?

It would seem that the majority of our lifetime, is spent having a "mentor?"

Firstly our parents, secondly our teachers and peers, thirdly an employer, fourthly, a lover in marriage....

Question IS: "do we ever really walk alone?"

Namaste,
SpiritNorth

Wayne Dyer, has answered that question,
in his programm´s,

Superbly!

Love, Passion

There was a question if we really walk alone?
I should say There is nothing more harmful than self direction. We certainly need mentors or gurus. It is a good thing. However, we should make sure that our gurus and mentors are doing their jobs by helping us to get to a higher level of knowledge and wisdom.

Sarah

A comment on Sheena´s comment,

haha,
So Deepak has ´groupies´ who wants to get backstage, haha

Love, Passion and a rockband,

Sometimes it's agonizing to read these posts.

I push forward.

SARAH: What leads you to make the statement you make about "walking alone". You seem to be convinced of its "harmful" attributes. I am not challenging you. I truly would like your insight into why you say what you say.

My father has sent me some books on raw vegetable diets and raw fruit diets. It seems to be a craze back in the states. Also 2 books on sacred geometries. Although the reading can titillate the ego I'm not subscribing to either raw diets or sacred geometry.

What I did notice is that in all these books a statement has been made that if one is not "initiated" by an ascended "master" then one will not find ones way. It gives me the same feeling I got as a child from the Catholic Church. "No matter what I do I'm going to hell".

As I have stated earlier in this string, "I have had many "gurus". At the same time I have never had a "guru"."

Some how I can not believe that the "eternal" would have sent us down here with out a self contained "operation manual". Jesus said that the word of "God" is written on our hearts. Buddha said that we should work out our own salvation diligently. If I am living in the Caucasus and I have nobody to socialize with outside of some drunken gun toting caucasians, am I automatically damned?

I'm a bit confused here.

SHEENA.

Why is it that whenever sexuality enters the conversation a sense of negativity is infused into the space? Is it even our business whether Deepak is or isn't "turned on" around "beautiful" women? Who said he doesn't "succumb"? Is "succumbing" bad? Does Deepak not make a "single" mistake?

DAVID WILCOX: We most certainly walk alone. In fact anything else is an illusion.

Also maybe a nice quote in the topic of ´guru´s´..

Neale Donald Walsh CwG 1 p. 114,

´..A true master is not the one with the most students,
but one who creates the most masters.

A true leader is not the one with the most followers,
but one who creates the most leaders,

A true king is not the one with the most subjects,
but one who leads the most to royalty.

A true teacher is not the one with the most knowledge,
but one who causes the most others to have knowledge..´ (!!...;)

I think it´s a great match, Deepak and Neale,

Neale for a more ´metafysical´, philosophical, understanding,
and dr. Chopra for the ´endocrino-logical´
subjective, point of view, because, one way or the other, it´s all inside ..(a brain..?)
mind? or spirit...;)

Love, Passion, and a good book
(wayne is cool too! ;)

Deepak,
thank you for continuing to clarify and illuminate with your wisdom. I'd be grateful if you could expand a little on 'the God who speaks directly to anyone is also a version of the Self' . You have said 'God writes the book and I collect the pay check' or similar .....can you equate those 2 sentences - are you equating higher Self and God?? I accept we are aspects of the divine or God and I have also heard you say that we are aspects of the divine or specks of consciousness in the vast field of consciousness and also that God is beyond human conceptualisation as that only limits God (and certainly seems to limit God by constrictng in the Self!) . But is that just my narrow view of Self. Is it that we are the speck and the vast field - or the potential to become the vast field.....are those who claim divine intervention manifesting it themselves .... I think i'm trying to marry up the Self (which seems restricted/confined/constricted to some extent but is aspect of God/divine ) and the God which is beyond human conceptualisation - are they one and the same???? Where does the transcendent come in ?? Where does Grace fit in ?? Are we manifesting it all ?? As in your post to Shekhar - are we IT and IT is all there is and if so why am I still wanting there to be more to IT than that - perhaps not fully realising/accepting the full potential of being IT !!!! I could go on but will stop there - sorry for the ramblings or any misquotes! Look forward to further illumination!!
love Magic

Deepak and David Wilcox - beautifully put. Sometimes I like to think of these "gurus" as simply people like myself who have walked into a room ahead of me and simply turned the light on so we can all see better. Doesn't take away from the fact that we are the same human beings - ego and all- as we were before we entered the room; it's just that the light bulb wattage of self awareness varies! There are many people still "waiting out in the hallway" so I guess its those who have entered the "Room of Spirituality Searching" who need to invite more people to come in......

On another note, sometimes it'd be nice to be able to take the ego off and hang it in the closet wouldn't it? Sometimes I get to the end of the day and feel like a young child talking to a puppy, trying to understand how to teach the puppy to understand the adult stuff - which I barely know myself - its laughable :)

Have a wonderful day,

Shell

Deepak and David Wilcox - beautifully put. Sometimes I like to think of these "gurus" as simply people like myself who have walked into a room ahead of me and simply turned the light on so we can all see better. Doesn't take away from the fact that we are the same human beings - ego and all- as we were before we entered the room; it's just that the light bulb wattage of self awareness varies! There are many people still "waiting out in the hallway" so I guess its those who have entered the "Room of Spirituality Searching" who need to invite more people to come in......

On another note, sometimes it'd be nice to be able to take the ego off and hang it in the closet wouldn't it? Sometimes I get to the end of the day and feel like a young child talking to a puppy, trying to understand how to teach the puppy to understand the adult stuff - which I barely know myself - its laughable :)

Have a wonderful day,

Shell

DAVID WILCOX: I apologise. My coment/response was intended for Spirit North. "Do we walk alone?"

´Do we walk alone´,

Not that I´m ´indoctrinated´ by,
but,
It is the same message,
over and,
over again,
But now eloquently and simply put,

So...
Neale Donald Walsh, CwG 3, p. 177

´...Now, as I said, the greatest Divine Dichotomy is the one we are looking at now.
There is only One Being, and hence, only One Soul.
And, there are many souls in the One Being.
Here´s how the dichotomy works:...
-read the books dudez! I can´t keep on quoting..;)

Love, Passion, how does Deepak put it?
(I´m waiting for my audiobook..;)

Dr. Wayne Dyer: ´If we knew who realy is walking besides us, we would never feel lonely´

Now the question is…
Are you ready for the real revolution
Which is the evolution of the mind
If you seek than you shall find
That we all come from the divine
You dig what I’m sayin
Now if you take heed to the words of wisdom
That are written on the walls of life
Than universally we will stand
And divided we will fall
Cause love conquers all

You understand what I’m sayin
This is a call to all you sleepin souls
WAKE UP and be in control of your own CYCLE
And be on the lookout for those spirits tonight
Trying to steal your light
You know what I’m sayin
Look whats inside yourself and
PEACE, give thanks, live life and believe

Public Enemy - who got game lyrics

One day my Divine Mother sent me out the door to play. I did not know that She had sewn in the hem of my jacket a Precious Gem. Years later, when my jacket was torn and tattered, I found it-- my guru. A teacher of spiritual subjects is not a guru. The word is a slang word in America for famous expert.

so, what was it that you wanted to say?

TRUTH IS TRUTH.....
...Had a conversation with a man who I hold in high regard and was telling him that I felt like I was out "shopping" for spiritual answers and help. Since he was a Catholic priest and I was raised Catholic (but strayed), I wondered what he thought my searching as it took me away from the teachings I was brought up with and led me to Buddha, Hanuman and Quan Yin. Instead of telling me what he thought or what he thought I should think, he just said "truth is truth".
It's that simple!

New Age Guru=NAG=Hmmm!{ominous in both it"s Eastern and Western interpretation}
GURU GOBIND was described as" aape GurChela"=his own Guru AND his own DISCIPLE.
The thinking Mind can conduct "analysis to paralysis" or, engage in 'endless second guessing'.
The observing Mind is guilty of the same.

TRUTH IS TRUTH!!! That is awesome Sharon--thanks for "SHAR-(ha ha)-ING" that. Very simple.

Deepak,

Aside from Indians who believed in the need for a seeker of truth requiring a Spiritual Guru, there was Yoda the Jedi Master, who said, "always two there are, a Master and an Apprentice."

I had to come back here, about a little story. I feel like I was forced away from my teacher by circumstances, years ago, and have not had access to him in a long time. So, the story is about a guru who has a disciple. The disciple has a burning desire to gain Enlightenment. The guru takes him outside and gives him a cow and says "Here's your cow. Come back when you have a hundred." So he was, like me, exiled by circumstances, a directive from his most precious teacher. So off he went, for a number of years. And then he returned, downt he old road to the temple, with a hundred cows following him, singing the praises of his guru, and a realized soul, having lived his greatest dharma.

It's like that for me now. Just tending my cows, as it were, is my holy path. Light is here, in and around me, now, no less and no more than at the feet of his holiness. It is here. And it is my task to conjure light and love and truth and my own depths, my own Self, my own recognition of the abstract truth abounding. I don't know if I will ever walk down the road to the ashram in this lifetime, but the light, it is closer, the love, the holiness, the light, it is there, and the veil between my conscious experience and the Godhead is thin. Jai Guru Deva. And Deepak, thank you for keeping me company lately. It is really gratifying to read your ideas and to feel the energy and stimulation of your level of understanding and your love of reaching around to poke the many diverse minds of this time and place. Go for it!

Deepak, I wanted to thank you for posting the list about what feels true to our ego. Something on that list hit home for me and I've had that - and the other things listed in the back of my mind since I first read them. And it really helped me with something.
Thank you.
Love, Kristin

Dear Deepak,

A priest friend of "mine" , ha! once said, "we , people are worshiping the visionary and not the vision itself " about Jesus Christ, but I'm sure we all at some stage (those of us who have shared your knowledge) have worshipped you in some form, I know I have , especially that time I met you at the launch of "todays wisdom" in Dymocks bookstore, in Sydney (on George St) sorry about that. I have that tendency in myself to be worshipped and upon reading what it means in the dictionary I'm now asking God to take away my desire to be an idol...not that I am.
love Gary.

Sorry that should read "want to be worshipped" , see what I mean!!!! how bad did I want it.

love G.

Dear Deepak,

A priest friend of "mine" , ha! once said, "we , people are worshiping the visionary and not the vision itself " about Jesus Christ, but I'm sure we all at some stage (those of us who have shared your knowledge) have worshipped you in some form, I know I have , especially that time I met you at the launch of "todays wisdom" in Dymocks bookstore, in Sydney (on George St) sorry about that. I have that tendency in myself to want to be worshipped and upon reading what it means in the dictionary I'm now asking God to take away my desire to want to be an idol...not that I am.
love Gary.

Hey Marek: Since you've clearly studied many of the most prolific of the wonderful teachers often cited here, many times by you (Neale Donald Walsh, Louise Hay, Wyaner Dyer, etc.)--just wanted you to recall that Wayne Dyer was quoting "A Course in Miracles," when he brings forward that statement, "If you knew who walked beside you, you could never feel fear (or afraid) again!" I am paraphrasing the quote Dr. Dyer uses--but it is either "fear" or afraid--sorry for the lapse of which it is!

It was always my sense that the text and context of that point is made in reference to the idea of "spirit guides," or just the all-permeating presence of Spirit itself, throughout every dimension--and that it is only FEAR (false evidence appearing real) that keeps us from being aware of this/these "presences/presents!"

Let me know if you have another take on the matter?

Char: My apologies for misinterpreting that your post to "David" was for me; I just noticed it must have been given for David Wilcock, regarding his "up close and personal" impressions of the human being called Deepak Chopra.

Now I feel a tinge of guilt at teasing Deepak with titles and clling him Sri Swami Deepak Guru-Ji!!

Let alone the disrespect many would think I am directing at those whose lives have justly earned them such a title!!

It had been my hope from the very onset, that my use of such terms was seen as "teasing," because sooo....many of these wonderful teachers are inundated and overwhelmed with the unsolicited worship that stciks to them like molasses on a hot, humid, and ultra-sultry summer day--like in New Dehli or New Orleans at their stickiest and most unpleasant.

Thanks to so many for your patience with some of my more "delinquent ramblings." Dave

Dear Deepak, Ever since I read: "I think some day I may do something so totally outrageous that I may eventually succeed!", somewhere in the back of my mind I've tried to think of what that might be. I've come up with some very interesting visuals... Hopefully you would not do any of the things that have popped into my head -- and I'm sure you would be much more creative. Love, Patzi

to David,
Yep, you´re absolutly right,
though the question ´are we alone?´
is a question born out of fear..;)
ego-awarness vs. spirit,

Love, Passion,
Ps. 1, I have the english print of CwG, so maybe the pages arn´t the same as with the american,
Ps. 2, Deepak is mentioned in CwG 3, p.157,
how freakin´cool is that!
- ´...Read the writings of Deepak Chopra. He is one of the clearest enuciators right now on your planet. He understands the mystery of spirituality, and the SCIENCE of it..´

Maybe also nice in the topic,

There is this universally, philosopical, spiritual saying
(wich I never got, by the way, but now with the spirit, unifield field theory, and so, I do)
it was something like this:
´a teacher doesn´t teach you anything,
he only unraffels what is already inside´

(try this one with algebra..makes no sense whatso ever!, but...in spirit..;)

Hey, maybe also nice in the topic, for I see
people have ´troubles´ with guru´s and so..

Call it what you like, devoties, pupils, some groupies even, whatever!,
here´s how I see it:
I just see a academic professor with a good sense of humor!
Dr. Wayne Dyer also taught on a university,
also great sense of humor,

Love, passion, and some distance learning,
(why does Law and Philosophy don´t come on a DVD lecture with an audiobook! ;)

??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

BUDDHA says,"All gurus & their teachings are rafts that take you to the other shore."

More, all gurus are dead & done, as all rafts are. Their only use is for one to use them to get to the other shore.

However, from the other side, this is the other shore!

The other shore is in "ME". The other shore is the "Empty Space" in one's mind created through meditation so that one can get rid of all his "SELF"--as in self-love, self-indulgence, self-extravagance, selfish & ignorance.

STUPIDITY is of no bound, especially when you are dealing with gurus!!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was married to a Class-A mechanic 15 years.

NO matter where we went, or for what occassion; he was constantly hounded to "talk shop" meaning: everyone we knew--family and friends, would only talk "cars" with him!!

They never asked, how he was, never a thing, on a personal level; it was as if, he only had friends, b/c he was a mechanic, and gave free work to friends.

We would have small arguments about this, b/c it would get to him, and he felt "used" and taken for granted; yet, he could never say "no."

WE'd ask friends when they came for planned dinners and barbeques, "NO shop-talk!"

NO one ever respected my husband for being "Peter" and always treated him as their personal mechanic.

NOT once, in 15 years with him; did this aspect of him being a mechanic, ever change...

Deepak; I"m wondering, do you go through this with your cirlce of friends too? IS it difficult to dine with friends/neighbours, without having to "talk shop?"

Deepak's Children: Do you find too, that your Dad's "Iconic" symbolism of a guru, interferes with YOUR personal lives at some level?

MY ex-husband still today; cannot severe the ties that bind him to his "career" and "personal" presence's...as seperate things.

Lady Tao

??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

In the Far East when one dies, he checks in with BUDDHA.

In the Middle East, he checks in with Allah.

In the West, he checks in with St. Pters, who represents Jesus in Heaven.

This guy died. St. Peters greeted him at the Gate.

St. Pters checked his computer & said,"you are a GURU & you are from the Far East. You should have checked in with the Allah or the Buddha or the Hindu camp.

There is no GURU in the West!!!"

"But I have lived in California for the past 50 years & everybody called me a GURU. And the biggest one too."

St. Peters,"That is all b@!%%s*&^!!!!!
Pardon me for using all those dirty symbols. There is always a hyprocrypt in oneself!!!!"

"Are you going to let me in??"

St. Peters: "Only on one conditio!!!! The mere mention of "GURU" is forbidden up here. You are either us or not us.

All gurus go to the Hindu camp!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Though there is one doctrine I don´t get:

the
´don´t go shopping if you´re hungry´ doctrine,

The idea is, first you have to ´achieve´ a certain level of (spiritual) fullfilment, then detachement, and then, you can enjoy, the ´outcome´ of your choices...

Goes for material abundance, love, tantric sexuality, pretty much for all that really matters,

What kind of mambo-jumbo Neverland, fairy tales,
is that?
Like if you´re thirsty, don´t drink,
Like if you´re hungry, don´t eat,

sure, Buddha laughed at his hunger, and went on a vast, for whatever how long,

but come on! let´s talk practicalities here!

Who can give me a practical ´translation´ here?

Love, Passion,

Never mind,

1. slip into the gap between thoughts,
alpa brainwaves and lower,
2. 7 spiritual laws...

Don Juan, Carlos Castenda,

Bugs the livin´starlights out of me, anyhow!

Love, Passion

Bearing in mind that I am an old spinster who is forever obsessed with her own meditation & her "direct" experiences with life, I think you are quoting too many & thinking too much.

You simply don't leave any "empty space " in your mind to "experience" for yourself, by yourself, on yourself.

By experience I don't mean think, follow, quote....................., it is more like having sex, you do it, you experience it, you enjoy it........as compare to talking about it, finding from others how they are doing it, consulting Gurus on how to improve it.............

When are you going to quote yourself?????

I´m gonna order the spontanious fullfillment of desire audioprogramm,

´leg time...´

can be a good thing,
because one bad choice does not automaticly
constitutes a disaster,

and it takes a while to harvest,

Four Seasons of life,

(Jim Rohn)

Love, Passion, leg time

´When are you going to quote yourself?????´

sure, here it comes:
It is re-creational universe, also in the fun-lovin´ sense of the self curving back onto itself, lightening up, sense of the Vedanta
wor(l)d,

Can´t help myself, sue me!
Chopin: ´People who take life seriously, are not serious people´

(Polish too..;)

Love,
Ps. As a student, I have plenty of Space-Time contiuum, to investigate the Secrets of...Magic?
Life?

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Is something part of nothing & is nothing part of something?

If you directly experience it, it is something.

If you just think about it, it is really nothing!

Better be !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!which is giving to us by GOD!!!!

THAN

to ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????which is giving to us by all Gurus????

You will go nuts sooner or later if you listen to them.

haha,
thanks for the tip,
I will give it the approprite Space-Time continuum to over-contemplate that one,

How´s the quantum healing going, by the way, Tyan?,

Love, PASSION,
People LIVE WITH PASSION!!!

This article by Deepak Chopra is about guru and follower, so I want to repond to that. I talked with my daughter about it and she did not know what a guru was, other than "famous expert" as I said previosly. For example: Bill Gates is the guru of computer operating systems.
Guru is from two sanskrit words, gu and ru. Together they mean "dispeller of darkness".
I guess I only have one or two examples. Jesus was a guru. He had twelve disciples. He was able to command the Holy Ghost to descend upon them in order to hasten their spiritual unfoldment. Milarepa had disciples. I know he also had the power to hasten his disciples' evolution. Whether he used it or not, I don't know. In the study of mysticism, the followers of the disciples are called the spiritual family. It is deduced that the greater the spiritual family , then the greatness of the Divinity of the guru. This reasoning is used by the Roman Catholic Church as one criteria for canonizing a saint. For example; St.Francis, his spiritual family of followers created the Franciscan Order. The same with St.Teresa of Avilla. Mother Teresa also has a spiritual family of followers, she started her own Order of Nuns.

"If therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light." This is not the light of rhetoric, new concepts, and concatenation of thought. This is numena, the Uncreated Light, of Spirit, which until we see, it is safe to say we are in darkness.

A plus for Sherry comment!
A woman´s touch..;)
great one!

As an Indian the word "Guru" means lot more to us than any one else in this world. Its nothing but a tradition which reflects in us.
Unlike people from west who remember there Gurus or teacher or any one and for that matter their mother, father etc, on specific days such as teachers day mothers day and so on, we have a great respect for our guru or for that matter our parents which is not limited to a single day.
and which probably comes to an end when we die.
When we follow gurus, its not that we are following actually that person, infact we learn many many things which he is master of.
By following a guru we follow his principles, his knowledge and many more things.
We should not look to a guru as an indiviual but a source of wisdom, knowledge,way of living and i guess almost everything we can think of...

Dear Deepak Chopra, Thank you for inviting me to this blog via the Larry King show. I guess it was Creationism vs. Evolution that caught my eye. I guess I have said all I have to say in several places on this site. I think you do good work, explaining things to people, and maybe I will catch you again on PBS. That is to say, after I've exhausted the reruns of CSI and Law and Order. I love detective shows. I go around detecting for God using my sadhana. History in high school seemed always to be pooh-poohed, but I have come across the fact that it has only been the last 50 years maybe that translations of esoteric texts, particularly, Jewish from the Hebrew, have been translated. I was mad about this years ago. I know that the Buddhist tradition was to hide texts also when bad plagues or nasty warriors were coming to town. I know that Jesus said "Don't cast your pearls before swine lest they trample them under foot." Perhaps you can have a blog on that. I know its hard for people to share what they love, say one's newborn baby is asked to be caressed by a stranger. But at least you and Ram Dass have opened up new avenues of thought. I have two terrible translations of the Quoran. How do I know this? Because I can't find any Beauty in them. I am relying on Peter O'Toole's handsome blue eyes and lovely British accent in the movie Lawrence of Arabia to cause me to value his character's quote of the Quoran in one scene. Also, I do have a very bad translation of Rumi's poetry. Nevertheless, I found Jalalu Din's two lines of poetry in another book which is, needless to say, full of Beauty and Wisdom. So I am still detecting. Thanks for being you. Sherry

Hi Deepak
I appreciate your intent to be a teacher. When I spell that with a small 't' rather than a capital 'T', my intention is to refer to you a great source of inspiration but not someone to blindly follow. Your thoughts put down as words create seeds of consciousness which grow in the fertile ground of my own individual experience. I do not need a single Guru yet by remaining open to the ideas of others, anyone could be my guru. Thank you for the many inspirations.

Who reads all this ? Most of it is just rubbish.

Deepak, why are you bothered about being labelled a New Age Guru ? Would a Vedantin be concerned about such things ?

??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

If one defines a guru as a dispeller of darkness, then there is only one Guru on earth, GOD.

For someone who claims himself to be a guru is like a pregnant woman claiming to be a virgin,
or an old spinster claiming she has enjoyed sexual intercourse for the past 50 years------------------------------------totally unbelievable!!

Over the years, so-called gurus have created more darkness & mud than all the tear(s) shed by man, which are more than all the oceans' water.

Since STUPIDITY & Intelligence are two sides of the same coin, if the greatest Guru on earth flips the coin, 50-50 he will end up stupid.

And if he flips it 10 times, 1,2,3,or up to 5 times he will end up stupid.

What if due to bad luck, and you follow a Guru who flips his coin & he ends up 10 times stupid
???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

There is more than one BUSH in this world. You know?????????????????????????????????????

Live with compassion & love!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Today, the side happens to be stupid for me!

I still enjoy my life though.

You talk about space-time continuum a lot.

"Time & STUPIDITY are the two things that are infinite in the Universe."--------Einstein

Space is time. Theoretically if one can create a machine that is so fast to go back to history, it will go back in time to get in touch with the day (DAY ONE)when earth was first formed.

Nobody can do it. So time is infinite. No objection.

But with STUPIDITY, you can see it everywhere, all the time, within one's 5 sense doors---sight, sound, taste, smell, touch, & the 6th mental sense door---thinking.

Why are all the smart guys(including all gurus) destroying all nature just to satisfy their immediate physical pleasure & piling on their pilferage & their wealth & ignoring mother nature????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Have you made enough money yet?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Flip two. STUPID

Greetings,

In this age of Kali Yuga righteousness and pure knowledge are virtually nonexistent and it is the nature of the time therefore perfect. There are many teachers thinking of themselves as guru. Many seekers are eager to place the moniker on one who has a good story. Isn't it a circus observing this driving desire to be acknowledged for knowing something?
One who tells you to embrace sensual pleasure is to be questioned.

What we think is good for us may in fact not be the case.
We have our own intellects with which to discern, but these minds are polluted with the numerous past impressions of lifetimes. How then can we trust our own minds?
Do you really want to invest in the notion that you need no one to cross this tulmutuous ocean?
Indeed the student's TRUE guru shows when the student has acquired the merit required so one can only fervently pray for HIm to show.
But then EVERYTHING known must be unlearned.How can the milk be pure if it mixes with what exists in the glass before cleaned? This is a very difficult thing to do as most seekers are unwilling or unable to endure the kind of change necessary.

Lord Shiva tells Parvati clearly in the Sri Guru Gita who is qualified and who is not.
God is Guru..Guru is God.
Whether He is perceived as Moses, Jesus, Allah, Rama, Krishna, Buddha, Dattatreya, the TRINITY looks for those in His family willing to give themselves to Him for this protection. That protection is KNOWLEDGE. Then the Ocean is no deeper than His knees. The Almighty incarnates when the time calls for Purity.
One such incarnation is currently walking this planet spreading His healing and knowledge through music. Miracles.

www.dattapeetham.com

Hari Om Tat Sat

Hmm, seems my question to Deepak, may have inadvertantly been answered...by others(gentle smile)in a rather ironic way......I almost feel like yelling "Bingo" or something to that effect, b/c it proved the point I was trying to make about my ex-husband, wonderful father of our son...but, hunted and haunted by his career...

I've been thinking about this since topic since yesterday and I just have a few thoughts to share. This past year has been monumental in my life to date and this has lead me in search of a "teacher". A serious teacher to help guide me on my journey and challenge me to reach deeper and to push me to be honest with myself about what is real. The lessons that I need to experience along my journey. Since childhood I have had trouble understanding religion and worship and I never really got what it was all about. Now that I have truly connected with the concept of Oneness and can feel the Oneness of it all...I see why I never understood, because it doesn't make any sense. It makes sense to want to connect deeper with God and to listen to the teachings of "teachers" Jesus, Buddha, etc but to worship them without learning the lessons doesn't provide you with any growth...just blind faith.

Our teachers are all around us, big and small with the ultimate teacher residing inside. I still search for that person(s) who can help me challenge my ego and help me discover the answers that are hidden within. I compare this to when I was in medical school. The best teachers or mentors where those that really challenged me beyond my basic knowledge so that there was a deeper understanding of what was being presented. It is to easy to let ourselves off the hook and sometimes we just need that extra push to get us further along our path. At least this is what a teacher or guru means to me. Deepak is definitely one of those people in my life that I seek challenges from....I hope to recognize many more along the path.

Just my simple thoughts...Amy

Amy--I really like what you said above. Just a short little story--I have been drawing all my life and I've taken a few classes here and there just for my own benefit. I'm not sure why, but I've had this idea that none of these instructors could ever change the way I draw or the way I express or portray my drawings. I was in that mindset-- until tonight when I found out we are going to have a replacement instructor for a month.

Well, tonight my mindset was broken. This instructor talked with such excitement and passion about art, my thoughts about my own art were forever changed. So in that sense, I am totally understanding what you mean about needing that extra push and getting further along in our path. Thanks.

This is such an interesting topic. I've been thinking about it for several days. It seems to me that the great Masters, Gurus, Teachers etc. isolate themselves from society in order to find and travel the path to enlightenment. They then come out of isolation to teach the practices needed to find the path of enlightenment and then return to isolation. I guess at this moment I'm really thinking mostly about Pema Chodron, an American Buddist nun who lives in the only Buddist abbey in N. America which is located in Nova Scotia. She was previously married and has a daughter and a son. I love her message of loving-kindness and her discussions of various Buddhist practices (tonglen, meditation) and how to implement them. She spends most of her time at the Abbey in meditation but does do speaking engagements. She practices celibacy and of course does not drink or do drugs. She is on sabbatical from all teaching. (Many Gurus seem to practice celibacy. Is this so their concentration can be more fully on the practices needed to reach enlightment or is sex just too emotionally messy or what?)

It seems to me that any of us could be further on the path to enlightenment if we were to choose to forsake our families and involvement in this society and go into isolation and meditation. Sometimes that choice seems very attractive to me! What I love about Deepak and David is that they are traveling the path to enlightenment but dealing with all of the "shenpa" that the rest of us are dealing with! That is why they are both such great teachers and are so inspiring!

I love this blog! Even when I'm not posting I'm reading and thinking and talking to my husband and friends about what I'm reading. My intellectual curiosity is peeked and is always sending me off into new directions (meme theory, etc.)

Thanks again, to Deepak and David and to all of you who post on this blog. This virtual community has become real for me! I feel connected and a part of a peace seeking family of people.

Namaste,

Love,
Liz

A very friendly site. Have a nice day! Fantastic blog: http://anthony.ianniciello.net/blog/archives/000079.html , Revelations of John

Hi Elizabeth: I wanted to respond to your inquiry about celibacy and how it relates to spiritual awakening.

It certainly connects with the notion of how distracted we are by sexuality, etc., but from the "energetic" side of things you will find a remarkably simple explanation and corresponding understanding as given in a book called "The Ancient Secret of the Fountain of Youth," by Peter Kelder--also forwarded by Dr. Bernie Seigel.

This book is invaluable for health and rejuvenation aside from the understanding given regarding celibacy though.

Basically--it is a concious redirecting of the primal lifeforce from being dissipated through our typical sexual expressions--and redirected upward through the higher "chakras" to use this energy in--and I say this very cautiously!!!--spiritual ways!

The reason I laugh as I say cautiously--is because it is not "unspiritual" to not be celibate--particularly if you are married and have a "mate" (Aussie's term for "friend!") that may not agree with this reshifting of energy!

Ultimately--the redirected energy would find it's way to driving the pituitary body open--which is known as "the thousand-petaled lotus" of enlightenment.

Being someone who "has not experienced" the reshifting of this energy, well...like the book says, don't "go there" until you are certain you are ready!!! So it really isn't about a moral decision--ie being sexual is "not spiritual," it is about redirecting your lifeforce for other "awakenings" that your soul may going after.

Thanks again for your patience with some of my personal ramblings. Dave

Dear Dr. Chopra,

You offer so much to the world and it is so desperately needed. I agree completely that throughout our lives, Gurus (or I like to refer to them as Teachers) are needed to assist us in interpreting the spirtual truths that lead us to the ultimate truth of the answers and wisdom being within each of us. I believe that's what the Masters have been trying to teach all along ...that the journey is within and the reflection of that journey is what we see outwardly in ourselves and in our world. One does not have to cease to enjoy the material comforts that have been earned or even given. I felt at peace with this subject many years ago listening to Dr. Norman Vincent Peale who said "There's nothing wrong with having money ... as long as money doesn't have you." Money does not 'have' you dear Dr. Chopra, Love "Has" you and I for one am deeply grateful for that.

In "catholic land" a teacher is seeing as someone competing with the clergy in the process of reaching God(or the Self). Therefore
they consider him a fraud. In "protestant land" a guru is seen as a fraudulent intercessor.

I just hope people can get out of both views, and that catholics can understand intercession
eventually becomes unnecessary, and protestants can understand that the real authority is God, the Self, not the Bible.

Rafael