The picture and the letter speak volumes Shekhar.

Peace,
Scott.

Well said Scott . . .Shekhar . . .you hit another chord . . .let's keep intending peace being the way . . .Laila

That makes me cry.

Love, Kristin

It is a dark moment in the history.

"Cries Of Anguish"

Behind the door
I thought I heard a child sobbing alone in the night
But it wasn’t my door and I walked on by

Across the seas
I read that people were dying
But they weren’t my people and I put the paper away

Cries of anguish rise up in the night
From the blackness of despair, death and destruction

A mother holds a dying child
Torn apart by the weapons of war
Slain by a world who never even saw her face

kristin

This is madness. "We" are killing our Muslim brothers in the name of what, "democracy," "freedom," "the rule of law;" blasphemy! This just makes me sick. . .

My heart is ruled by anguish, people, our brothers and sisters, are dying, and yet the U.S. governemtn continues to sell weapons in the name of peace; SELLING WEAPONS IN THE NAME OF PEACE!

My God, what have we done. . .

Time to act:
1. I have read at many places that Iraq war is for OIL. Don't support OIL companies, Don't buy OIL. Minimize long-drive vacations, air travel. Car-pool for work/shopping, use mass transport.
2. Don't support companies which are behind the govt/congressmen/senators who are supporting this war. Avoid using their services.
3. Show our support for Iraqis and feel sorry for what is happenning there. Tell it to every public servant (assembly men, mayor, congressmen) every time.
4. As only lobbys work in washington, use lobbys to stop this. Till we find out a way to come out of Iraq, start feeling sorry in words, in deed.

Please share your ideas about what could be done to unite people and make our intentions visible.

hey shekhar,
whatever mess bush had done in iraq and its people is there forever.He has written a black history on the face of the world.Now what ever is being done cant be "undo" again.Now this is the time to think that how humanity can be saved in the world when a person like Bush who represent the America as superpower is playing with the countries like India Pakistan,Afganistan, Iran and Iraq in the name of terrorism.
This person doesnt know that he is trying to fight with terrorism with the very weapon of terror.The word "War" is itself very terrifying and has nothing to do with the betterment of humanity.Ojn the contarary, it is producing more terrorist who mighty write a second history of 9/11. And there will be another Bush in America who would repeat the history again. It seems never ending circle.
Now the question is given a power and possition, what coould be done with Bush in this regard.
Now I m inviting ideas from each of you regarding ---what could be done to end the circle of terrorism and what should be the stand of India, America, Pakistaan and Britain ?
Lets try to find solution....may be we can help them to come to happy conclusion.

For I cannot and never will

If one cannot forgive then one wants to punish those responsible.

If one is not powerful enough to punish those responsible then one resorts TERRORISM.
Morris

I wonder how many of us cared about Iraq before "Bush's" war? How many cared that a cruel regime that murdered tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of its own people, and countless Iranians. I wonder how many of us cared that women were second class citizens unable to drive a car, work outside the home or even vote. I wonder how many of us cared about the thousands upon thousands that simply disappeared while their loved ones were left to wonder what mass grave held them.

Now that we have "Bush's" war it seems to have generated a tremendous amount of "caring". The caring seems to me to be but a clever disguise to cover so much hatred for "W" and his crowd, rather than genuine concern for the Iraqis.

It is simplistic and moronic to call this a war for oil. We could have had all the oil we wanted by taking over Kuwait without firing a shot. We are still the third largest producer of oil in the world. We still have untapped resources in the ground. If you want to prattle on about oil, just quit driving your car.

I spent part of my youth fighting a war. I know first hand what it means. I don't want war, don't support war, don't think it resolves much. It also resolves nothing to allow mass murder by terroists in our country, in Australia, the Phillipines, Spain and Britain ... globally, in fact. If you are going to love your enemy while he kills your loved ones, you are going to discover what real hatred is all about.

Set aside your hatred for all things that you deem opposite your own beliefs. Common ground and good sense is what we need ... not professing love and concern that simply covers up hate.

You want your intentions and caring to be visible? Then reach out across the aisle for a solution, and quit throwing barbs. There are folks on your right that care just as much as you do (hard as you may find that to believe), but to make the assumption that only your way works is to just further deepen the divide ... same for the right.

Peace ... but peace with justice.

The cycle doesn't stop if she cannot and never will. Or do you have a solution for that mother?

hey guys,

for those that see a tirade against Bush in my post: Please look carefully and see if his or the name of US has been mentioned. It's your assumption, so u have to explore it in your own mind.

for those that don't like the words " I cant forgive and never will", put yourself in the shoes of an Iraqi mother, who's children have either been killed or maimed. And those that survived will grow up traumatized with fear, asking her every night "mummy will I die tommorow ?"

I put myself in that shoe and the shoes of the generation to come, I see no light. This mother is making us go in circles, is there a way to stop?

Morris is right above, there is a better chance of that child growing up terrorist then a scared nobody.

Morris is right, there are more terrorists bieng formed in Iraq and in Afganistan right now than we can imagine. Shekhar

I thought all of the posts to your letter were open for comment ... not just yours. If I have misunderstood that, then you have my apologies.

So directly to your post, if you have to know, I have been in "those shoes".

As to the other post regarding my having a solution, I do not, do you? My actions have been to be directly involved and try to help one person at a time. If you have a solution that will work, or that can be explored ... I am listening.

I am open to solutions, but not hand-wringing.

1. I think we (US) should aggree that the war was started to remove WMDs from Iraq. As no WMDs found, we should feel sorry/ashamed and get out there. I still remember the 24 hour notice US gave to Iraq to disclose WMDs.

2. If we think there were mass murders in Iraq 10-20 years ago and we need to liberate it, then keep going back in history (50-100-200) years, we can find many mass murders. Can we start punishing all of them. Hence this logic of forcefully liberating a country doesn't hold good. If I am not wrong, international forces gave Iraq rule in the hands of "Bath" party in 1975. Saddam Hussain belonged to Bath party.

I don't want to start arguing on historical events, "why/how/where" they happenned. Everybody has different interpretations and reference materials to ponder about and hence different conclusions.
The point is to save the present.
Commit our mistake and pull-out.

So we are in a war in Iraq, that we started, and now we should pull out.

Let's concede the first point.

And now we should just leave the mess with the Iraqis and let them suffer the consequences. I saw the application of this principal first-hand in Vietnam. We go off feeling so good about ourselves for the disengagement while the masses are murdered.

Ignore history at your own peril.

Surely there is better critical thinking than this around.

We need a fresh start.
And for a fresh start we need to send all the politician on vacation. All the politician of the diffrent countries be it Bush, Parvez Musharrf, Mamohan Singh aur tony Blair, should be sent to a island just to ensure to avoid any interference in the course of transition.And then athourities and decision making responsiblity should be given to beaurocrates. I assume that they r rooted with soil and they know the reality and they would be having quit alot options to restart evrything...
Oh...it looks like a dream....i wish i could do that....

Dear Shekhar,
I find the comments surprising. You are being too pessimistic. For human race nothing is 'too late'.
The human race faced much worser situation. Think about the concentration camps during WW II. Visualize the mushroom clouds over Hiroshima and Nagasaki.But we have overcome all kinds of adversities. And we shall overcome this situation also.
Let's not be hasty in our judgement. Let's think for while. Why are we so critical about Iraq war? Is it not because we have found a soft target in US Govt.? As for the photograph; it is heart rendering. But is this the first of these kind of photographs we are looking at?
Answer should be yours.

so true!

I think R.D. is the only person commenting to this post that actually knows what he is talking about, especially since he has experienced war.

I definitely agree with R.D. that forgiveness is way more difficult than some of you think.

If someone killed a family member of mine, I would want that person to be eliminated from existence so that his or her family could experience the same feelings and suffering that I must experience losing my loved one.

Someone will bring up the "eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind" quote from Gandhi but things like this are much more complicated if you have experienced them first hand.

It is an extreme way of thinking, but by the logic that some of you hardcore Bush bashers are using, you should actually be forgiving Bush and loving him... this is by your own logic, not mine, and hey I'm not even a Bush supporter.

Also, I don't get it why people think that Iraq was like a paradise before we invaded.

If you actually cared about Iraq, you would have supported some kind of intervention there, seeing that so many people were suffering. The fact that many of you imply that rule under Saddam was better is completely hypocritcal, and while I like this forum and the discussions, many of you are very hypocritical in that you are selective of who and when you care about and sympathize with people.

I wish we never invaded Iraq, for the sake of the US. However, I acknowledge that human rights violations were very bad there, and by opposing war we are also condoning atrocities that we (or you) "should" be striving to stop.

If you people really cared so much about everyone, there is a lot more you could do to help the world... you Bush-bashers show that you are actually okay with suffering in the Middle East, as long as the US stays out. You are basically promoting poverty and oppression in the Middle East, because you do realize that these people are TRAPPED between dictators and religious fundamentalists. They can't voice their concerns like we can and I hope y'all realize that.

I want to see more people doing rather than talking. Writing little poems don't do much to help people. Since you guys believe there is no solution to the Middle East, why don't you actually do something to help the people of the Sudan, Subsaharan Africa, India, Thailand, Latin America etc etc?

This is a great blog but it is a dreamworld. Some of you need to get back in touch with reality and acknowledge that there will always be pain and suffering the world. There is simply no way to help everyone, especially considering that people turn everything into politics, and these politics confuse everything as people on both sides of the fence become intolerant and look at issues differently, even though both sides insist they are correct.

So some of you got some thinking to do! Then again, some of you are right on because you have actually been in the situations that the picture in this post depicts.

R.D. I look forward to more of your replies!

- I L L M A T I C
God Bless the USA
God Bless my friends in the military

Quick question(s)...

Was the Iraqi mother able to forgive Saddam for gunning down her fellow Iraqis and their children? Did the Kurds count in this equation?Why weren't the people of Iraq so incensed by this behavior that they didn't overthrow the regime themselves when they had the chance?

I feel one of the answers may be that we are all enslaved to minds that have preferences. I once read that 80 percent of what we absorb as knowledge happens in the first six months of our experience on this plane. The other 20 percent is filtered through the mind's preferences from the first six months. I'm going to go further out on this limb and say that these first six months are primarily influenced by our families. Beliefs. They get handed down from generation to generation, and some are accompanied by a very unforgiving tone.

If this is the microcosm, what does it say about the macrocosm?

We'll never resolve this on the same plane it was created on....

R.D.,

I have to have to agree with you on many points here. I find little value in rehashing the idea that we "shouldn't have started this war in the first place." I would agree with that statement, but from the standpoint of the Iraqi and American people it makes no difference what we should or shouldn't have done (except as it applies to future actions)...we are in fact there, and the only valuable conversation is to decide what to do with the cards that have been dealt.

Also this statement from your post:

"Set aside your hatred for all things that you deem opposite your own beliefs. Common ground and good sense is what we need ... not professing love and concern that simply covers up hate."

As much as many would disagree with their own brand of 'hatred', it's pretty apparent to me that many opinions are based on hatred of Bush and the "rich" (but that's another post) rather than love for the peoples of other lands.

My frustration with the administration is its inability to have any sort of exit strategy...in other words, what does it mean to 'win'? When is enough enough? The definition of 'win' seems to change and the Iraqi people and the soldiers serving there and their families are the ones paying the price for an administration that keeps repeating a mantra of the "War on Terrorism". America is fighting this war like it were a battle against another country. But who are you bombing and what is the ultimate goal? Terrorists have not "home base" and are not motivated by the policies of their countries because they don't have countries. They fight for an ideology that can never be logically reasoned with.

Psychologically, they are striking out at an 'enemy' that does not exist. They are killing innoccent people in their quest to gain...what? They are simply making the situations that created their anger alive.

Strangely, America is doing the same thing...striking at an enemy that does not exist and America too is creating more of what they fear. Ultimately if you wanted to turn me into a terrorist drop a bomb on my house (preferably in the name of freeing me from my own President) and kill my family. I might consider flying a plane into a building too.

Ultimately, the only way for everyone to win is to first surgically remove specific terrorists and then defeat terrorism at its source. THe source of terrorism is hopelessness, frustration and the continual struggle to satisfy basic needs. And America's presence right now is setting up the perfect breeding ground for more terrorism.

Peace,
Scott.

Mallika,

I think that you are right that feeling the pain of others is a start. That compassion is a very important start and can't be overlooked. No plan of action however well intended can succeed without it's basis in compassion.

You said that you didn't know if you could forgive and so how can you ask another to forgive. It is true for me as well that there are some things I do not know if I am strong enough to forgive and I would not judge another for being unable to find forgiveness in their heart. And yet, I know in my heart and soul and with my entire being, that forgiveness is the only way out of hell.

Love, Kristin

If pictures like this had been out there at the start of this unnecessary war, support might have not been so strong. Bush and company made sure we only saw our side of this war, for obvious reasons. However more that that, it's how the administration looks at the world, ethnocentricly. Yes Saddam was a bad guy, we all knew that,(lest we forget the U.S. helped arm him in the 80's). The question is what should we have done about that? Maybe we as a nation should try to lift people up out of despair first, before we go and invade there countries and kill there people.

Andy, hold on a sec, do we even know the context of the picture?

Shekhar, like the Bush administration, uses pictures as propoganda. If this picture shows the result of a US attack, then your viewpoint has validity.

However, I thought the scene depicted here is the result of attacks by Iraqis on Iraqis, Muslims hurting Muslims. If that's the case, your viewpoint doesn't totally make sense, as this could be part of a very different conflict between Iraqis themselves, not between the US and Iraq.

Of course our attacking has given these different conflicting groups the freedom and opportunity to attack each other, so there is a point there.

But if the Iraqis have their own ethnic and religious conflicts amongst each other, it doesn't really have very much to do with the US. It has more to do with problems within Islam and within different ethnic groups, and we're not the ones to say that they shouldn't have these conflicts.... if this is Iraqi on Iraqi conflict, it is them who must strive for peace.

I see the picture in the context of this war, that the U.S. started with a blind foreign policy. It's narrow context is not the point. The U.S. opened a pandora's box over there.And to say it's just internal violence, is to reduce our role in this bloody mess. The picture is symbolic.

Dear Mallika and Kristin . . .hope all is well. In one of Wayne Dyer's CDs - he spoke of a mother who's son was gunned down and murdered in a random drive by . . .her son was killed for no reason except he was standing in that particular spot at that particular time. She went to the trial for the murderer - and sat through the sentencing.

Once the trial was over - she decided that she would regularly visit her son's killer in jail. After many years - he was released. At this point - she approached her son's killer and offered him a room in her home and to help him as he started his life again in the real world.

The man who killed her son could not believe what he was being offered - and he asked the woman why . . .why was she doing this. She said that the only way she could move on from her son's death was to forgive his killer . . .and as difficult as it was - true forgiveness for her was taking this man into her home - and treating him like the son she lost . . .it was the only way to stop the cycle of hatred and create a new cycle of love.

She is a remarkable woman and I don't know if I could ever do that . . .I don't have children and it is very easy for me to say 'yes, we need to forgive - even if our own children are killed.' But, I cannot possibly know what I would do if it were to actually happen . . . all I can hope is that I can have faith in the Source . . .that I would have the strength to follow the example of the woman mentioned by Wayne Dyer.

In the meantime . . .I need to focus on the circle of influence I have around me - start with the forgiveness for those who may have hurt me. I don't know any other way of doing it.

Shekhar - please keep bringing discussions like this to the forefront - we need to put a face to our actions throughout the world. Peace to everyone . . .Laila

Illimatic,
Actually Shekhar, nor the "mother" mentioned who killed this child. I think the point was that the child was dead. To me this picture is not so much about the US or Iraq or anyone...this was about war in general. Ultimately wars are fought and paid for (in the highest terms) by those who didn't start them.

Peace,
Scott.

All I can really say here to anyone that wants to hear ... step into the world as it is, not as you wish it were.

I have had the blood of a loved one on my hands, I have had the blood of the killer on my hands, and I have had the blood of innocents on my hands (because if I participate in the war, I share in its casualties).

None of it washes away.

The only thing I can tell myself everyday of my life is that the killer will not shed the blood of another loved one or another innocent.

Each of you may "wish" these things were not at hand and each of you may hope for a better day. You may call it Bush's war, or their war, or anything you like. Like it or not, at the end of the day it is your war and my war, and we have to do what is required, what is necessary, to make something worthwhile out of the mess that is at our hands.

All I ask is that we do not abandon the innocents, the citizens of Iraq, or the lives of 1,600 Americans that were doing what they were sent to do.

Blame it on who you want, but hold that person responsible to formulate a plan that brings peace and justice ... not more chaos. Listen to the person (one much wiser than I) that offers a workable plan ... not to the politician that seeks only gain for themselves (regardless of the side of the aisle on which they stand).

I believe I talk to much ... time to help or get out of the way.

It seems to strain the limits of credulity when we can justify more killing by noting that so many have already died and that we just must not allow their deaths to have been in vain, with this line of reasoning, ultimately, killing will not stop until humankind ourselves have been eliminated, but then, I suppose, at least we would then have no more war – whoo-hoo mission accomplished heh!
The people who feel duty bound to promote freedom world-wide, go then, and kill people in the name of your “freedom,” take your guns, bombs, and nukes, and go liberate the oppressed peoples of the world, remake these lands in your image. But Saddam was a cruel and tyrannous ruler who was killing his own people, so we are justified in our cause of killing more people in the name of our capito-plutocracy, our military might and divine right justifies any actions which promote “our” cause: noble lies are a tool of God “they” say.
Well, go on ahead then, take “your” God, your weapons, and your ideological intolerance, and kill them all, after all, God will take care of His own. . .

If the Iraqi people wanted revolution, then it is incumbent upon them to make it so, it is not the business of a foreign power to deem it so, like ‘we” know personally the will of God Himself. Anybody who professes to personally know the will of God, who states that yes indeed they know beyond refute what it is that God has in mind, well, then we are stepping into waters most opaque. As a matter of fact, who is one to call another “evil?” Is that not a judgment for the Almighty alone? Meaning; did not God put Hitler into power, did not God put Napoleon into power, did not God put Genghis Kahn into power, did not god put Bush into power. . .
So, if we are to take the Old Testament literally, and accept that the Israelites had a god-given right to commit horrendous acts of genocide, well, I have my own personal theological theories about the meaning of this portion of Scripture. Yet, in direct contrast to the Old, in the New portion of Scripture I do not perceive any just war doctrine, I do not perceive a ‘deserving” poor doctrine, and I definitely do not perceive a government of the rich doctrine. Your interpretation is as good, and as justified, as mine is; but, if you find ways to justify killing a fellow human being from Scripture, then we have seriously differing interpretations of Scripture.

Can you not feel it people, do you not feel the power of freedom wafting throughout the very air we breathe: revolution is here! Taxation without representation, this overly burdensome and corrupt government, and our love of money, has drained us to the point of despair; the common person is bankrupt, monetarily, emotionally, and, spiritually. The tea is rotting in the harbor. Our God-given duty to relieve ourselves of out-of-touch mega-rich lawyers is justified, justified in the eyes of God (I believe), justified in the eyes of the AIDS riddled one year old in Africa, and, justified in the eyes of the common man, to whom the American Dream is just that, a dream, which has devolved into the most hideous of a nightmare.

In peace, God is on our side (I believe). In peace, we are justified in righting “our” government’s wrongs. In peace, OUR Creator’s will will be found (I do truly believe this).

Understand that as the mighty wind, blowing everywhere, rest always in the sky, all created beings rest in me
Dominus vobiscum
Amen!

Thanks Laila. I have heard similar stories of forgiveness and heroism.
Love, Kristin

Shekhar ... are those the mother's words or yours? Love, Char

RD, too true. This site is turning into a nest of anti-Bush propaganda and frankly is getting quite boring (maybe because I'm Indian and don't really care about US politics, but still, one track minds all here ablogging, it feels like).

And I totally agree with you that all these low-brow cheapshots (shooting lasers with his eyes, google for 'disaster' etc) are only serving to deepen the divide and alienating people whom these ppl want to convince and bring over their side (namely, the people who're still backing Bush). If they aren't going to talk sense and have compassion and understanding for the other side, see their pov, understand it, and then seek to find a common middle way out, this "intentblog" is just another name for "we-hate-bush.org"..

Laila
What a powerful story about courage. It is stories like these which make this blog what it is. Stories which celebrate human potential for transcendence, for unimaginable valour and nobility in the face of the darkest tragedy. So many of the other posts( logically argued and passionetly felt no doubt) end up burying hope and truth in the rubble of words. And your story stands apart like a lamp which forces everyone to recognize light. Not because the tiny lamp will light up the whole sky, but simply because it reminds everyone that no policies, words, ideologies or us versus them diatribe can ever do the job of creating light. They are circuits of logic and rationale, well-intended but impotent in dispelling the gloom. Only the heart(s)which travel the road of courage, shed fraility and fear, conquer hate and futility have the power to silence all with their truth. A truth which is beyond debate.

The silence contained and triggered by your post is truly healing on a subject like this. Thank You

Love
Jasjit

Although I have to commend you for this particular post. It's just pure human grief frozen in time and won't fail to touch ever person with a heart. I *do* weep for the Iraqis. I think the US' absolute power needs to be tempered or put to better use. The key is for power to be distributed more equitably in the world, so no country can destroy another with nary a peep from the world. The Iraqis had nothing to do with 9/11! When will Americans get that?

Laila, that's a very touching story. It reminds me of a story about Mahatma Gandhi:

I recall the story of the Calcutta riots, when Gandhi was fasting for peace. A Hindu man came to him, to speak of his young boy who had been killed by Muslim mobs, and of the depth of his anger and longing for revenge. And Gandhi is said to have replied: If you really wish to overcome your pain, find a young boy, just as young as your son, a Muslim boy whose parents have been killed by Hindu mobs. Bring up that boy like you would your own son, but bring him up with the Muslim faith to which he was born. Only then will you find that you can heal your pain, your anger, and your longing for retribution.

Scott, great post. Right on about America giving lessons on how to create terrorists. They had the world on their side after 9/11. Notice how the entire world supported their actions in Afghanistan. But Iraq? And the American people buying this BS!! It was unbelievable. I guess if you scare the populace enough, they'll believe anything you tell them.

I repeat: Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.

Bloggers: You've already lost all your Republican readership with your tiresome and constant anti-Bush tirade. Now you can stew in your juices and keep hacking the same s**t again and again. Is this the way to further peace and understanding? So much for "intent".

Right on Sunil. So many people on this site talk about how the world should be more forgiving and tolerant, and how people should be more open-minded to other perspectives.... but when it comes to Bush, Republicans, and certain other groups of people, intentbloggers become hypocrites and they go against the very ideology that they propogate.

There is nothing inconsistant about being intolerant of intolerance.

Shekhar,

It's not over for me. I lost a friend to the Iraq-war. Sgt Uday Singh. In every mail he sent, there was always a reference of how great the US Army was... how he would ask his ma not to worrry because THEY had the `best` of everything. And then on December 1, 2003, he was shot down in Habanniyah while conducting a combat patrol of a highway. He received a gun shot in his head. And he went away. Just like that.
How can it be over? It dosen't make sense to me. I visited Uday at the Arlington Cemetery last year. I knew it then - if there is anything worth achieving in life... if there is anything worth dying for and living for - it's this. The eternal quest and the questions that won't allow you to just sit there - while my friend "save(d) the world".
"ps pray for me," Uday said.
Silence and acceptance is not the answer.
Please pray and do something for this world.

Megha

Hi all,

There was an incident which took place in India a couple of years back. A gentleman by the name of Graham Staines came on a visit to India. He was so taken up by our villagers and rural life, that he decided to stay back.His wife assisted him and they began to live in one of the remote adivasi villages, offering love, support, education. In other words became one of them , learnt their language, lived like them without any pretense. Soon they had two children. And life was perfect. Till one day they sensed some unrest over they teaching Christian principles in an essentially conservative Hindu community. It escalated and resulted in the animalistic tendency that human nature is capable of morphing into. One of the most bizarre and shameful incidents then occurred when Mrs. Staines became witness to the torching of her husband and children before her very eyes. All of India condemned the Adivasi who was hunted and sentenced. What did Mrs Staines do? She took a week to recover. She was then advised to return to her country. She refused. She said she wanted to fulfill the dream of her husband of building a school and a hospital. She averred that she could not desert the village they had adopted just because of the act of a single person. She continues to live there and has publicly come On national T.V. to proclaim that she has forgiven the murderer. He didnt Know what he was doing she said. A true Christian.

This great woman has left an indelible mark on my psyche. I often recall her smiling face, sitting among the villagers at her feet. Who needs saints up in the heavens when you can have people as Mrs. Staines and Mother Teresa and their shining example among us.

Whatever religion we follow, Our sincerity can be evaluated by a single measure. If we are Hindus how much of Krishna or Shiv Or sai Baba is there in our everyday life.Or that matter how much like Jesus do the Christians choose to be. What good will empty philosophy do? Why should we be forgiven By the supreme if we cannot try and do the same? We have to raise the bar on our ideologis and values. Enough of being ordinary humans caught in the compulsions of cravings and aversions. In fact the whole of mankind is entrapped in just these two
Demons..CRAVING ,AVERSION. think about it. Try and analyse the cause of any mental turmoil. It will boil down to just this. Let us try and manifest the divine in us.. collectively

Peace and love

Dear Mahesh . . .hope all is well. Yes . . .I remember reading that story about Ghandi - thank you for reminding me of the beauty of his teachings.

Jasjit . . .you are right - it is stories such as the one about Ghandi as well that help us fight to search for the light that illuminates - that we know exists. It starts within ourselves . . .

Peace and love to all . . .take care . . .Laila

"I think we're all used to hearing about some guest on Al-Jazeera spinning the typical Arab fantasy tale of wild plots by the West designed to humiliate or murder or emasculate Arabs. It's standard paranoia that people have come to accept as truth — sadly enough".

This is a quote from John Gibson of Fox News. He made this statement during his commentary on his show "The Big Story". I guess he did not hear about those elusive WMDs, and the mushroom clouds that were on the way from IRAQ or maybe he still accepts those things as truth - sadly enough.

Laila: I would add my thanks to Mahesh and Kaveetaa for their stories regarding both the famous and the infamous accounts of seemingly super-human demonstrations of true forgiveness--or like both Jesus and Graham's wife exemplified: "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do."

Absolutely amazing that a mother could do what Mrs. Staines did, in spite of, but particularly in light of, witnessing her husband, but even moreso, her children being burned alive.

That is imcomprehensible to most of us--what it would be like to witness, let alone live with, the sight of one's own children suffering like that--and then to forgive the insanity of that torture.

Thank you two for those examples of unconditional levels of forgiveness.

I find it hard to even imagine how it would be that I could come from that same space if I found myself in that same place of seemingly insurmountable anguish. Love--Dave

Yes, thank you Mahesh and Kaveetaa and again Laila for sharing those stories.
Love, Kristin

"There is nothing inconsistant about being intolerant of intolerance."

Intolerance is one thing. Winning people over to your side (of tolerance if you will) is another. And an intolerant tirade isn't going to do it.

"We have to raise the bar on our ideologis and values. Enough of being ordinary humans caught in the compulsions of cravings and aversions"

kaveetaa, powerful words. It again reminds me Gandhiji's words on the same line:

_Be_ the change you wish to see in the world.

The more I think about those words, the more powerful their meaning.

Be the change you wish to see in the world. And yet, people here aren't "being" understanding and willing to see or understand other people's perspectives, excusing it with inanities like "no tolerance for intolerance" etc. They should accept other people's views and work with them to bring them into the light as well.. They aren't being change at all.

Megha, sorry to hear about your loss. But unfortunately, war is basically old men sending the young men to die. I'm sorry to say but he didn't die for a noble cause as I don't consider an invading army to be noble. That would mean I as an Indian, glorify the British. They had the same excuses about "civilizing the natives" and "the white man's burden" etc. The Americans today claim to carry "the democratic man's burden". The best to spread democracy is to "be" democratic. People underestimate the power of "being" and the effect seeing ideas in action has on other people and countries.

Tamanna, just read your post. Terrorism is caused by creating or enhancing a person's sense of injustice. Take Kashmir for instance. Muslims there have been convinced (either by their religion or by others) that as Muslims, they should be part of an Islamic country with Sharia laws, and not be part of a secular non-Muslim-majority country such as India. To convince them of this, they've been brainwashed into believing that India has been "persecuting" them for 50 years. And from this sense of injustice, they fight for an Islamic country. You tell me: how should India deal with this. We love the Kashmiris like all other Indians. Letting Kashmir go is not an option because we've already experienced one horrendous partition on the same issue (Islamic countries required for Muslims) and I think double jeopardy law applies here.

Dear friends/bloggers

I have gone through all the posts and been moved by many of the stories of courage, forgivenes and compassion.

I will say this again. I did not mention the words or Bush in my Blog. I did not say whether the horrible injuries to this child were caused by an american bomb or by a suicide bomber. I don't know. It just is what it is. A picture of grief caused by war.

But going through the posts I just realize how polarized our society has become - people naturally assumed and were upset that this Blog was anti US/Bush - or others naturally criticized the US/Bush.

That polarized world is fallout of this war.

About Iraq. Someone has to take responsibility. My question to all of you is :

Who is in charge ?

Shekhar

Who is in charge?? Must be Bush....he just caused another hurricane in North Carolina!! I think Halliburton has gone into the building business, and he's doing everything he can to get them some 'no bid' contracts!! Or....maybe he's going to start drilling for oil at the Outer Banks... What a record he has now!! Yep,you can even google it, Mallika said, miserable failure was it?? Let's see, he not only didn't prevent 9/11, he allowed it to happen. He invaded Iraq for oil. (I still don't get that one) He caused Katrina because of environmental policies, and then sat in Crawford and laughed because impoverished black people were drowning and starving. And now....this latest hurricane....damn, he's been busy!!!

Wow, this is cool!! I always wondered what the poor demented souls on Huffpo, and now to a lesser extent on this blog, felt like writing that tripe!! The funny thing...they really believe it!!

Shekhar, I must commend you. Your last two posts have been thoughtful and thought provoking. I've enjoyed reading them, and thinking about them. We obviously see the world thru 2 different sets of lenses, (memes at work here?) but when you write like this you at least present your side with dignity. Frankly, your earlier posts when speaking about world affairs and the USA in particular, were offensive, elitist and nasty. This is much better, this is a policy debate....the world and intent blog can handle more of this. So....I've blasted you before...I'm fair...I want to thank you for the change of tone. I'm a diehard conservative on most issues. Especially fiscally and on defense, not quite so much on social issues. As one of the bloggers wrote earlier, you can win more to your way of thinking with thoughtful dialogue, than you can with "Bush/Hitler" comments. I know, you're human, sooner or later you will probably go off again, and I'll have my little explosion sitting here in my office...and I'll go on reading, and you'll write a couple of those poems and then maybe come back and write something thoughtful like this....and all will be well in my little world!!

David...."oh the sun shines bright on my Old Kentucky home...." kinda like being at the center of the universe....all is well!!!!

Y'all have a great day....my lawn mower is calling!!! Bluegrass, blue skies, flowers, ahhh what a life!!!

ray

R.D.:

What is "a" solution?

May divine grace collectively transcend us all. . .

If I may appear to some to further the divide, forgive me, please. I seek peace, I seek love, and I seek a perfect world. A hopeless utopian, aye, mayhap I am. A modern Trotsky imbued with the hope of a peaceful revolution that does have an end; a unified world that strives onward as loving collective that peacefully disagrees, and then formulates better solutions. Aye, yes, this I am.
My devotion to life, my devotion that impels me to use what knowledge I hath thus far gained in this brief corporeal incarnation to action, albeit, and truthfully, selfless action, leads me to pen the words I have wrote. Only by overturning tables within the marketplace of ideas can momentous and glorious changes occur: I believe the only truly meaningful changes left for humankind to achieve can only be wrought of our minds alone, this is the last greatest change we can dare to conceive, and hopefully we will soon achieve world peace.
Tables overturned is an act of “extreme” intolerance, yet they were toppled invoking the most beautiful of notions; peace and a brotherhood of humankind. So, if to some I may have seemed intolerant in expressing my intolerance, forgive me, I am just tired of us killing each other. . .
There is no equipoise in death, there is only reunion or nothing, one of the two we must all believe in. I, personally, believe in reunion.
I just do not believe in just war doctrines, of any religion, and so I communicate to you, the Other, my aversion to such notions, enwrapped within verbiage that do betray “my” desire, my desire for world peace. Fighting for love, killing in the name of love, is spirituality in it’s most corrupted sense, I believe.
So, Christian soldier, stay thy hand I beseech thee. Aye, holy jihadist, embrace the loving endurance, and empowerment, of Allah’s love, and see in me you. Arjuna go not into the field, hearken unto they humanity which bades thee pause, daring to controvert Krsna’s guidance.

So again, I ask for forgiveness if I have been offensive to some, I seek not to divide, but to unite. I seek peace in the name of peace, not peace in the name of war or contrariwise. Mayhap this is not the proper forum to convey my profound dissatisfaction with the course “my” nation has set itself upon, but yet, where else would one combat the Clives and Hastings of today, if not within a forum that is facing the same forces only modernized?
I do lament for the living, and for the dead, and, I do believe we can reunite here on earth. A disillusioned Trotskyite, aye, mayhap, but life is, after all just a temporary illusion nonetheless; right???
Without desires for profit, with no claims to proprietorship, and free from lethargy, I fight on. I come in peace, I seek only peace, and I love you.
Where to now I ask. . .

R.D.:

Vietnam didn't look so bad the last time I visited. Thank god we got out.

Yes I would like to hear "a" solution from you since your comments are no different then those of the "liberal left".

I have some which will no doubt leave me open for attack but here goes.

1. Put Hilary in office. Or another woman. Lord knows we need feminine energy to lead.

Just look at these blogs. Even the most conservative thinking woman on this blog would be better as president then you or I.

2. Pull out of Iraq. Not full scale today pull out. Plan it. Even if it's 20 years at least it would signal some kind of accountability.

Right now all I hear is as long as possible. Your right. Look at Vietnam. There was never a hope there until the US did pull out. And thank god they did.

3. Remember all those "civilians" coming to the aid of Katrina victims? Now is the time for a full scale world wide effort of the "civilian" to go into Iraq and lend a hand. And massive international funds should be released to these groups to assist it the rebuilding.

Governments can not do the job. We the people can. And I'm not talking about private contractors so please don't bring up beheadings. We continue to analyze and theories the "terrorist" mind set. Bullocks. If a dog is forced into a corner and repeatedly beaten he will either succumb to the beating and eventual die or bite your ass off. I don't condone terrorism or violence but I bet if you or I were in their shoes we might be setting road side bombs.

I know I'm not an intellectual and my ideas are probably full of naivety. I ask you again. What would you do?

R.D.:

Much respect to you. I agree. As much as I hate this war we can not simply abandon Iraq. We must (someone smarter then I) come up with a well thought out, internationally sanctioned plan for withdrawal. Not escape. Demilitarization of Iraq. Nothing about Iraq is easy and neither will leaving. In the end we must leave. And leave it a better place then when we got there.

One other thing. We should not discount the power of the "turn the other cheek" people. You would be amazed at the power.

In Sanskrit it goes:
"Munde munde matirbhinna, tunde tunde sarasvati".

Translated: "Every mind has different opinion and every head has a different goddess of knowledge (Sarasvati)".

I know compassion, ethical living, camaraderie are the solutions. But who should start it first?
Why should I start forgiving/loving people while others might kill me?
Again, world is a cycle of construction and destruction. Even if we don't do anything, this cycle will keep on going. We only have choice of use/abuse it.

That picture touches a sensitive chord in my heart. You are right about writing on the mother's behalf. For a mother whose child is wounded or killed in Iraq or any where else for that matter the whole purpose of conflict - of war or terrorism does not makes sense. It certainly does not explain why her child got caught in the mayhem

Some of you might be intersted in this Iraqi Peace Plan: http://www.fnvw.org/index.geni?mode=content&id=10021

Let us not forget that Iraqis are currently killing themselves off faster than America is. America didn't start genocide in Rowanda. If I am educated on it enough to mention it, I seem to recall that Kashmir has seen its fair share of rediculous blooshed between people that really should be getting along. African tribes have never ceased to destroy each other when opportunity presents itself.

Granted America stirred the hornet's nest in Iraq - and probably never should have been there in the first place....

...but indiginous folks must take responsibility for their own actions. While the CIA may very well be financing the insurgency to prolong the instability of the region as a justification to be there - no one can say that the CIA is doing the walking & detonating for them. Those spirits must make the free will decision to RESPOND in their own way.

When New Orleans encountered disaster, some helped out & some looted. The world governments are one problem, but as I hopefully have illustrated people of different spritiual constitutions are going to react in different ways. Some pray, some bomb the praying. While we can see that America is probably the biggest offender in meddling, this doesn't diminish the fact that most places on the planet are creating their own termoil without western players or influences.

In short, we all need to take responsibility for ourselves - even in the face of another's unjustices. There are those who 'experience' the disasters and those who 'observe' it. Perhaps the 'victims' are going through all of this because WE are the ones who need to see & feel. If only we could forgive, we wouldn't have the back-n-forth we see in Iraq - remember this was going on during Sadam's reign, albeit not as openly & often. (IMHO ) When you feel anger towards someone else, you essentially send out energy to keep the turbine ( or paradigm ) running. And on a last philosophical note, the anger you feel has always been there, the world is simply providing an outlet for you to process the anger ( or any emotion rather ) to allow you to further your spiritual evolution to the point where emotions ( as we know them ) are no longer necessary. It is your world, you created it. This perhaps one of the most frustrating AND liberating realizations one can have.

My last comments (I hear cheers).

First, I believe that the author of this blog is disingenuous in writing a provocative, hypothetical letter from a grieving Iraqi mother at the loss of her child, and then acting indignant over the fact that he never once mentioned George Bush, or that he was amazed at how polarized we were over this issue.

It’s not unlike a boy yelling “fire” in a crowded theater, and then pretending innocence and shock over the poor fools that practically trampled each other to get out of harm’s way.

Polarized. An interesting term. Polarization is nothing more than roughly half of the people disagreeing with the other half … particularly if their duly elected officials make a decision for which they do not care. I cannot recall very many critical decisions in our history that did not “polarize” the populace. Think affirmative action, Vietnam, civil rights, busing (Brown v. Topeka school board I believe), Roe v. Wade, The Civil War, the Emancipation Proclamation, the Louisiana Purchase, and on and on.

So we cry out against the decision and wash our hands of it … proclaiming innocence from the other morons that made or support the decision. Well guess what … we are not absolved, we are not innocent … we are just giving up our rights and responsibilities.

Someone threw the “L” word at me above. It does not bother me to be called liberal … or conservative … those are other folks’ labels. All of my friends think I am a conservative. We all make a huge mistake when we steadfastly align ourselves to a particular political party or doctrine. We are a republic … not a democracy. So we have to keep an open mind and hold our leaders responsible. Who in charge, as the author asks us? We are ... let's act like it.

In the end, do I have a solution? Sure, but then again I ran for president of the United States a couple of years ago, but I didn’t win (that’s a joke, before anyone accuses me of living in a rubber room). The point is my solution, like any other decision or solution in this matter, will be polarizing, and open to much critique and laughter.

So here it is. The US needs to place enough troops on the ground to match the ratio of troops to citizens utilized in post World War II occupied Germany and Japan. Cut off the insurgency, train the Iraqi’s, and leave it to them when they are prepared … not an international peace keeping force, which is largely ineffectual. In the long run it will cost less in both lives and money.

And now I leave this blog to you folks as I am sure there are a great many ideas out there, and one (or some) of you will come up with something much better.

Personally, I am going to commit myself to helping one Iraqi family and one soldier’s family. It is not much, but it is something I can do.

All the best to all of you.

R.D.--I had to laugh, if you don't mind too much, in that you have called Shekhar, a filmmaker, to be a "disingenous" blogger.

Now....who was it that called Michael Moore, in a political convention I believe, a "disingenuous fimmaker?" Was it a Republican Senator from Arizona, if I am not mistaken???

And I very much like Sen. McCain even though I think he should have seen "Fahrenheit 9/11" BEFORE making his comments about M. Moore!

Soooo....R.D.--I think you are complimenting Shekhar with your comments--even if that was not your "Intention!"

I also think what you are saying at the end of your post, about helping an Iraqi family AND a soldiers is in no way "A Small Thing!"

Hope you do exactly that, AND..., very much enjoyed all of the emotions your post presents, regardless of whether I agree or disagree! Thanks--Dave

SIKIND:

Thank you for some direction.

R.D.:

Thank you for putting forth "a" solution. No critique or laughter here as it sounds sound and well thought out. It actually makes more sense then just wallowing in the quagmire that has become Iraq. It's what we need. Someone to put forth a strategy that has facts and figures and a timeline.

"As long as it takes" is a scary proposition.

I hope you are wrong about the letter. What makes you think it is "hypothetical"? I really do hope your wrong.

I used the term "liberal left" earlier in a response to you. I didn't mean to offend you. Like many here I have gotten hot tempered, emotional and irrational over the past few days while reading these posts on Iraq.

My intention was not to label you a "liberal". I don't see your position as liberal.

What I was trying to convey was my observation over the past few days that as people are venting there feelings towards Bush and the conservatives in the US, some (myself included) have been down right "bashing" Bush. Not all but some. The sad thing about this is that the "liberal" voices that are truly looking for or offering solutions to this situation often times are mixed in and then lost among us ignorant Bush "bashers".

On the other side there has been a recent "backlash" against us "Bush bashers" on this site. The backlash comes from both conservative thinking people as well as liberally minded people. This is understandable. After a while it jut gets plain boring to here the negativity.

The reason I made the "liberal left" comment was in an attempt to point out that the "bashing" has been going both ways. Even in your well thought out "contribution" I sensed frustration bordering on "bashing". Your words, "It is simplistic and moronic to call this a war for oil."

I don't want to debate the issue. There are as many with "proof" that it is about oil as there are those with "proof" it isn't about oil.

I just want to point out that all of us, even the one exposing the "basher" is capable of "bashing" while exposing.

I agree it is a waste of time "bashing" people or groups here. I see that no matter which "side of the aisle" one sits on the tendency to bash the other side is there.

I wish you good karma with the Iraqi family and the soldiers family.

Dear Megha,
I have been praying for you and your friend, and for all of us here.
Love and peace to you,
K

Many thanks to David and Fool and all else on this blog. I take no offense from anyone, and meant no true offense to anyone (just a couple of barbs) ... well, except for Michael Moore.

I did not write my critcism of Shekhar in ignorance. I will be listening to Deepak tomorrow as the featured speaker for the morning program. I even pass out his tapes to folks as part of our goodwill program.

All of us "put things out there" for consideration that are sometimes ill thought out, and I just thought this was one of those instances.

I thought the letter that Shekhar was writing was hypothetical, because he says he is writing "for" an Iraqi mother.

As to Fahrenheit/911, and please forgive my uncensored comments, I have seen it and Michael Moore represents the worst of the bashers.

Again, all the best to all of you.

Many thanks to David and Fool and all else on this blog. I take no offense from anyone, and meant no true offense to anyone (just a couple of barbs) ... well, except for Michael Moore.

I did not write my critcism of Shekhar in ignorance. I will be listening to Deepak tomorrow as the featured speaker for the morning program. I even pass out his tapes to folks as part of our goodwill program.

All of us "put things out there" for consideration that are sometimes ill thought out, and I just thought this was one of those instances.

I thought the letter that Shekhar was writing was hypothetical, because he says he is writing "for" an Iraqi mother.

As to Fahrenheit/911, and please forgive my uncensored comments, I have seen it and Michael Moore represents the worst of the bashers.

Again, all the best to all of you.

"Hey" Ray: Had to share this one with you. The day after your post about, well....having that wonderful home and family life in the Kentucky hills--I got a surprise call from an old friend who walked with me every Tuesday night for nearly four years along a canal trail that goes through the southern end of the Denver metor area.

We did the workbook lessons from "A Course in Miracles" this way. He called a week ago Saturday and I wound up going to his house for a barbeque--I spent much of my time with this group of people just listening to the "Phantom of the Opera" CD I brought along and soaking up the moonlight bathing a warm and dry summer night as they are lingering well into September so far.

The same thing happened by happenstance on Sunday night as well--where I was unexpectedly invited to do a "mediumistic" reading for a family I knew in my childhood days--in a wonderful neighborhood that allowed me to walk along a large lake that this community is built around--teenagers were even out swimming and going off a large waterslide into this lake, well past sunset.

Both nights were that exact feeling for me--that I so envy that you still have--I felt like "Spirit" gave me a reminder of a taste of that feeling that the description of your life gave me.

Thanks Ray--and yes, our president is most definitely busy "spinning up his hurricanes" from Crawford--and whatever other human catastrophes are happening in this world that Halliburton can make a buck off of!!! Dave

Just came across this thread, when the eyeballs have likely moved past.

R.D., you claim to have experienced war (with "blood on your hands") yet know nothing about it. I haven't been remotely associated with war, thankfully, yet like Shekar know more than you ever will. If you have the stomach, check out these pictures of US aggression. Do you realize some random entropy prevented me or you our our loved ones from being there?

No cause can ever justify this brutality.

[Warning: painful pictures]:

http://www.krysstal.com/democracy_vietnam_agentorange.html
http://www.krysstal.com/democracy_vietnam_mylai.html
http://www.krysstal.com/democracy_afghanistan.html
http://www.krysstal.com/democracy_iraq_1991du.html
http://www.krysstal.com/democracy_iraq_war03.html

GrislyBear,

Why would a person with, admittedly, no first hand experience make such an irrational assumption, and such an unwarranted charge? Your words speak for themselves, and for who you really are.

R.D.: The images of children mutilated and murdered haunts me. I know what abject poverty is, having struggled to get two meals a day in the country where I was born, and I considered myself relatively well off. Fortunately, education proved a passport. At a level of subsistence beneath where I was, and there remain millions at that level, democracy means squat. There is a natural sequence to upliftment. Transforming brutal dictatorship using trigger-happy armed conflict in an accelerated timeframe is a pathetic approach. Has GALLUP ever polled the most needy and poor? Would their phone bank statisticians even know how to reach out and sample accurately?

My life experience has irrevocably taught me that violence will never be an answer irrespective of the provocation. Ironically, that sentiment pours out in aggressive words; the verbal agression is simply directed towards highlighting something infinitely more sinister. Indeed, my words speak for who I really am.

I don't think any war until now could be justified by anyone...this too is not exceptional.

Pictures says more than words Shekhar.

Peace for all

Is not everything as it should be? Why focus so much on the problem. How about focusing on the solution. It is so east to get sucked into the drama of anything, especially dying children and war. What about the solution to all of that. Are you as committed to figuring out that, or supporting someone elses idea, as you are of bantering on about what is right and wrong?