Hello Mallika and Everyone,

I am not sure what you mean by what is the difference?

I am happy to hear your family has not been harmed.

I do not think the reaction in the London bombing was melodramatic, if that is what you are referring to. If a bombing happened anywhere near me I can guarantee you I would be freaked, freaked, freaked! The fact that there is no melodrama, outright statements, panic, does not move me..much. I do not have to experience a bombing to know my reaction, and I would not be without panic, outright statements, and melodrama....for better or worse I would freak!

Terrorists bombings are becoming almost commonplace througout the world and I realize I am not immune, no one is, anymore. The pain and suffering of the victims is horrendous.

I happened to see a speech that Prime Minister Tony Blair gave after the bombings in London and I thought it was very thoughtful and intelligent..peace, ruth

Mallika - I just got off the phone with my mom who's in Delhi too. All's well but my hands are still shaking. Mom was calm though.

There was more panick after London because it was better televised and news from India does not generally create ripples. From what I remember Londeners themselves were reported to be relatively calm and resolute and determined to take the Underground anyway so I'm not sure where your remarks are coming from.

Let's see what unfolds and how much of all this is swept under the rug. Since the earthquake in Pakisktan in the last few weeks there have been terrorist killings in Kashmir on at least 2 occasions that I have read about, the riots in Mau where several people were killed and now this. The first 2 events will not even register in anyone's consciousness and these blasts will probably be forgotten. Meanwhile the Chopras and the Nanditas of the world will get together to organize events to hightlight the evil nature of hindu fundamentalism. Go figure!

I saw it an hour ago here on Dutch television. It shocked me as much as the earthquake and all other events that have happened in this year alone. But Divya, it is the same with every fundamentalism, catholic, hindu, moslim, etc. To me it is a big big cry for attention in one way or another. It is high time a critical mass will have the courage to form a counterbalance.
Mieke

I called my family they live in Delhi...well everyone is fine but amma was like in somebody's house there will be no diwali.Infact amma and my aunt were doing shopping in some other market.

Amma said ..."she said it was such a festive season...Hindu/Muslim both were shopping for eid/Deewali.She said you could feel the harmony in the air and everyone was so up beat.People co-exist peacefully and then all of a sudden these things happen"

I'm sorry Mieke. There is nothing on this planet like Christian and Muslim fundamentalism. Christians wiped out the native populations of 2 entire continents and plunged Europe into 1000 years of darkness. Muslims have the same intention. Where is the equivalent of this? What is your belief based on? Please provide an example.

Hindu fundamentalism is a reaction to Muslim fundamentalism. Take away the first problem and the second will disappear.

Andaleeb (AK) - I do understand that your heart must have sunk deeper than most of the rest of us. I'm confident Delhi will stay calm and I hope the rest of the country stays so too.

Thanks Divya i hope that too.It just makes me nervous as in India riots can be instigated without any reason but this is a big cause in itself.I'm sure Delhi will be peaceful.
Hey Divya just a clearification did you write this message to AK and me both? Or you think we are the same.

Hi Andaleeb - My post was addressed to both of you. I guess I should have said "and". I figured he'd be in the same boat but since he's not around yet and I was replying to you, i just stuck his name in in parenthesis.

When?

When will mankind learn that it is time to end violence and bloodshed, wars and genocide, once and for all?

When will we see the end of religion-based suicide bombers?

When will we recognize that life is way too shorter than we think and that we should celebrate it and strive to establish lasting peace that will pervade all corners of the earth like the gentle tradewinds of our oceans?

When will we see a permanent end to fanaticism and zealotry? Or dogmatism? Or terrorism? Or premedited hatred? Or the election of crazy, nutty leaders who can have a profound influence on the stae of affairs in the world?

When will see that health care, education, employment, the construction of homes and infracture are far more important and crucial to mankind than bomb-making factories?

When will we recognize that the protection of the environment is far, far more important than the wholescale , indiscriminate destruction of it?

When will we be able to travel innocently all over our planet without having to worry about unsuspenting acts of mass murders? When will we grow up?

When?

Thanks Divya...Incidents like these upset me.These terrorists value nothing...they just want to spread terror and are against humanity.
In Delhi festival season is the best time.Since couple of years Deewali/ramadan/ramlila/eid these festivals were falling right after each other.
My cousins would go to watch ramlila at ramlila ground and then go eat sehri.
Divya i know you are Newyorker and your mom lives in Delhi..but have you ever lived in Delhi?

We need to remain calm and not point fingers.

We're not all blessed with the abilities of Diyya to place people into categories (coincidentally rising her 'tribe' above the others) or divine what the intentions of One billion people are.

We need to look beyond categories, as there are only two: those who support a 'tribe' and those who don't.

I was woken up this morning from a friend on the counter terrorism group, that we are a part off. The first word out of my mouth this morning was very shubh shubh, it was the four letter F***. Frustrating to hear that every time we work our bottoms off and move a step ahead the terrorists push us back two. Putting our emotions aside, all of us need to think for a moment why this is happening.
India and Pakistan are going through the peace process and with the advent of relief work from both sides, relations and opportunities to work closely are increasing; so are the frustrations of terrorists.
There has been a 40% increase in terrorist attacks in Kashmir and other parts since the earthquake, and why? The terrorists don’t want India and Pakistan to have peace; they don't want the border to be reopened and the people of Kashmir to reunite of 5 decades. If we succumbed to their pressures and bring in an increased level of anti Pakistan/anti Muslim agendas , then the terrorists have won.

We need to maintain our cordial relations and continue the relief efforts and peace process. We will win and the terrorists will lose when the people of Pakistan get to interact with us and realise they are the same as us, when the people of Kashmir stand up against fundamentalism and raise a Jihad against terrorists, when people of Pakistan come out in thousands to organize protests in Karachi, Islamabad, Multan against terrorist attacks in India, then we have won. We will have cut the umbilical cord that is feeding the terrorists and they will die a natural death.

The process is not easy, but we are moving towards it and the people who died today are martyrs for the cause and will smile from heaven when the barriers are broken bringing India and Pakistan together.
I have lost friends to terror attacks and I'm sure many of you have. I want to bring a meaning to their life and justice to their death; I want to be able to tell my Martyr friends when I meet them that they did not die for a lost cause, there is hope and the hope is us. Common people of India and Pakistan. Let us not debate how the war started, was it Hindus or Christians or Muslims, lets us see how we can bring an end to it, lets us bring a meaning to thousands of those who have died for us, and not forget the ones who joined them today.

You are probably right Divya. I reacted from a feeling inside and the only thing I really can say from what I read about the christian history is that I have understood it all as a chain reaction of cause and effect and as I have watched all these tragic events that happened the past few years I cannot avoid the feeling in myself that it is all connected in one way or the other.

I do agree with Vijay Sappani that it would be a good thing to "see how we can bring an end to this and bring a meaning to thousands of those who have died for us, and not forget the ones who joined them today.
Peace to all of us Mieke

Ted - If you think Christianity et al. are not categories then you must be following your own unique logic. And why do you condemn tribes? Are they not entitled to live on this planet? Or is the fundamentalist in you dissatisfied that they haven't acknowledged the love of christ?

We may all bleed the same way but it's what we stuff in our heads that makes all the difference. It's wrong to say that a handful of people have hijacked a religion. The problem is religion itself. Just as a mere handful of scientists gave us all these technical wonders based on certain fundamentals, a mere handful of people have been wreaking havoc based on religious fundamentals. Yet people want to embrace these fundamentals simply because it's polite to do so never mind how much suffering they continue to cause.

If people claim to be interested in fostering peace then religion absolutely needs to be exposed. The problem with the West is that it simply dare not condemn Islam because that will necessarily mean examining its own stinking religion. And yes, the stench of christianity is in an incomparable league of its own.

I was delighted to find my convictions reflected in this article from a mainstream, highly reputable paper. Please do read it and let me know in which way you don't agree with what they have to say.

http://books.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,,1547835,00.html

When we will be able to live in environmentally friendly and peaceful world?
The answer is most likely never but not in foreseeable future for sure.
We all have built in evil within us. Some have more than others. Same I think apply to the people who follow organized religions. Over the centuries religions have done some good but a lot of harm as well. Often the harm is done internally to the followers of the same religion, such as caste system, untouchability etc.. More often wars have been waged against followers of other religions causing massive deaths and destruction.
Is it possible for us to discuss openly the shortcomings and perhaps even the strength of each religion? Because some do seem to inspire fundamentalism more than others. Fundamentalism is harmful both internally and externally.
Just a thought
Morris

Dear Mallika; it does make one re-invest thought into what they absorb through the media.

When 9/11 happened, when Asia, USA, Tsunami; all the destructive force's this past year occured; I myself was so absorb with spending too much time in front of the news channels scanning for any fragment of change in information.

It became though; as if I were living it, emotionally and after a while, physically; as I absorbed the painful pictures again and again.

Sometimes; it all tends to magnify world events; as we absorb multiple news stories of war and destructive nature so repititiously.

We in fact, become part of the cause of effect.

I just can't understand, why things are the way they are out there in the world; or in here, in my heart, my thoughts; but, I do know; it effects each one of us.

Too many families torn apart in God's name; perhaps God is talking to us; and we are still, not listening; so God, uses nature's "ways."

May we offer prayer; to the grieving; homage to the departed; and peace, to all touched; by another tragic show of war's redundant path.

May we all self-empower our thoughts, and envision forgiveness and peace, globally; may we too, all extend ourselve's; past our difference's and strive for brotherhood and sisterhood among ourselve's.

North

There is a saying in North India :"PAHAL KARIYEY NAA,DOOJ CHADDEYEY NAA." which translates into:"NEVER BE THE FIRST TO INITIATE ANYTHING BUT BE SECOND TO NONE WHEN YOU DELIVER YOUR RESPONSE".
For the sake of preserving the dignity and self-respect of every patriotic Indian the time is now to let the perpetrators know how stupid they have been when they are licking their wounds.

Hi Mallika,
Your honesty is appreciated but I really do have to ask why the Delhi did not seem as resounding to you as the London one? Do you know what the Hindukhush mountains are named after? Do you know that 500,000 Kashmiri Pundits are living as refugees in Delhi?

The so called education system in India that produces hordes of English speaking graduates also instills in them a self-alienation that is utterly tragic. We have been taught to view our selves from their eyes. Pharganj - how much more "ethnic" can you get in the capital - why would it cause any sympathy with you?

The west will not save us - they do not care a damn - at heart they are a Christian civilization. All of their products have spread through violence, from Christianity to more recently Communism and now Democracy. They always seem to be finding the right way of doing things, unfortunately this also happens to the only way - hence they have the right to enforce it by any means necessary.

Islam also, from its very inception, has been as violent. The first act of Mohammad after revelation was to break the statues of the "pagan" goddesses that the Arabs worshipped earlier. These so called religions are but cults in disguise, they are political units with power as their goal and end. Spiritual enquiry does not need organized religion - that is why many western scholars have gone as far as to say that Hinduism is not a religion!

Islam will not relent... we have to deeply understand the threat and resist it. India is not a “confluence of cultures” Islam and Christianity do not believe in integration of any sort. Where are the Incas and the Paris (the people of Iran)?

Mallika, I would urge you to know yourself and the history of our people and magnificent country not as an outsider but as your own, perhaps then the blasts in Delhi will seem part of the greatest continuing tragedy that mankind has known.

One day, long ago; as the English and French fought feverishly to take over north america; an old Indian Sage asked the white-eye, when taken into captivity; "when you look out, away from the city; what do you see?" and the white-eye replied: "nothing." And, the Old Sage responded: "then, take care of that nothing; one day, it will be all you have left."

Prophecy?

North

One day, not far off; the world is going to be so polluted from so much toxic waste, bombs, graves; that it won't matter much, one's religon or belief difference's; we'll all be in one united cause, for survival.

It appears, the thoughts of men have spoken; and create the butterfly-effect; which may very well attempt our fate as a race; if not indeed planet.

This is the only living planet, within our reach; after we destroy this one, for labels of things; then what?

Why waste time, on labels of things; it is such a small view, of a very big picture.

North

Dear Mallika,

I remember how I felt when the federal building in Oklahoma City was bombed in 1995. I was born and raised in Oklahoma City, and had been living in Ohio for ten years. Still, the bomb that ripped through the Murrow Building ripped through me too. For me, it was the first (terrorist) attack on my sensibilities.

I will hold you in my thoughts, as I know this tragedy in India is impactful for you and your family. Keep your eye on the horizon...

Love, Bo

Hmm, one day; there may not BE, another day, actually?

Not if we keep on this track of current events. I don't know about anyone else; but, I am indeed, afraid; when the conditions of human survival is based on labels of things; and pride and prejudice, and uncontrollable desire, anger and hate.

Replace the thoughts that betray your Spirit.

North

It is terrible and the evil doers should be brought to justice. This should be strongly condemned.

Also those who use this trgedy to advocate their fundamentalist ideology should mind their business and not fish in troubled waters.

Hell with all the fundamentalists and terrorists who advocate hatred either with bombing or with their fundamentalistic propaganda. Terrorists should be wiped out and other fundamentalists who fish in troubled waters and advocate their hate ideology should be made to SHUT UP. Only then peace will prevail in this world.

Sorry your families have had to endure this....

What is Diwali?

Joanie

Hi, Mallika, I am happy to hear your family and sumant's family is ok. I have a few friends whose relatives live in Delhi. all seems to be well with them.Mallika God bless you.

I read the comments on your blog.The argument seems to be which religious group is good. The fact of the matter is there are good people among muslims, hindus, jews, christians.( I consider buddhists,jains and Sikhs as hindus). There are bad people also among the muslims, hindus, jews,and christians.These bad people do not care who they hurt, what is the consequence of their actions. One life time this bad person may come as a hindu,the next life time as a muslim, a third life time as a jew,and the fourth time as a christian.To say that only people belonging to one religion are bad is taking that to the extreme.I understand most of recent major terrorism has been by muslims.How about what is going on in Iraq.What would you call that? Why hundreds of thousands of innocent people of Iraq have died,hurt, lost loved ones? For what reason?During partition,in 1947 both hindus and muslims killed, hurt, raped,looted.This hurting other people is not done by only one religious group. What about the people who hurt by their very powerful,but negative thoughts and words? Some times it is better to die of a single shot than to be tortured and killed by powerful negative thoughts and words.Your words and thoughts are very powerful.Is it allright to attack some one for no reason, with out any provocation? I understand arguements. I understand dialogue.But attacking people with your negative thoughts, I do not understand.

I have good friends who are hindus muslims,christians, so do most of you.There are good and bad among all religious groups.

Gita - Nobody denied that there are good people in every faith so I do not see why you make an issue of this. The issue here is about religion.

Religions which claim that there is only one God are intolerant by definition. This is because these religions claim that there can only be ONE WILL that governs the entire universe. Secondly, there can only be ONE TRUE DOCTRINE that conveys this will to humanity. Therefore, this doctrine MUST BE intolerant towards all other traditions that convey the will of God.

If you deny these exclusivity claims of these religions, you simply deny that these religions are the message in which God reveals His plan for the universe, and that amounts to a denial of Christianity and Islam (and Judaism) itself.

However, in today's world in many countries we see people of all faiths living together in relative harmony. This does not mean that these religions have become tolerant. Tolerance of different religions within one society is a *civic* virtue that all citizens within that society accept. It does not mean that Jews accept Jesus as a Messiah or that Christians accept Mohammed as a prophet.

Tolerance as a civic virtue revolves around building a society free of religious strife. Religious tolerance, on the other hand, revolves around the question of *truth*. Since there can be only ONE TRUTH as per these religions, the intolerance persists.

For all those who keep asking why can't people of all religions live together in peace, I hope you can see that as long as we have religion we will always have this problem.

Hi Joanie, here is my answer to your question about Diwali.Diwali is actually Deepawali.The british changed it to Diwali. Deepa means light,and awali means a cluster.It is a festiwal of lights.It is a festival that is as important to Hindus as Christmas to Christians, Hanukah to Jews,Eid to Muslims.It is a 3 day festival.The first day is Naraka Chaturdashi.On this day Shri Krishna and his wife Satyabhama killed a demon who was terrorising the people.So we celebrate Krishna's victory over a terrorist so to speak.The second day is the no moon day.(Hindus use lunar calendar)This day we do Lakshmi puja(Worship Goddess of wealth).The third day we celebrate the return of Lord Rama along with Lakshmana and Sita to Ayodhya, after killing the Demon Ravana.

All over India everybody is in a joyous and festive mood.The houses are cleaned,painted.Shops are cleanned and all the accounting, book keeping is finished.The houses and places of businesses are decorated with rows of oil lamps.Most businesses start a new year after Deepawali. Every body poor and rich and middle class get new clothes. All kinds of sweets are cooked.Most shop keepers do Puja in their shops.people celebrate with explosions of fire crackers.Children have holidays.I remember growing up in rural India,we used to do Lakshmi puja in my fathers clinic.(he was a general practitioner)I remember being very happy during Deepawali. All our friends, no matter what religion came and were served sweets,chunks of fresh coconut,and puffed rice etc.

Here is USA we Indians get together in our temples or centers and do Lakshmi Puja have a feast(most of the time it is catered).Usually there is entertainment program.In my small town of Charleston WV the children of the community perform songs, dances, skits etc.It is a lot of fun.

Joanie, thanks for asking about it. It got me chance to write.God bless you.

Mallika - you say "Those whom I love in Delhi did not let the terrorists terrorize them... They didnt let them win."

And what about those you do not care about in Delhi? The people who died for example? This is about the tackiest, most hackneyed, cliched, knee-jerk, catatonic, lobotomized statement one could ever make.

Nandita - This is not about oneupmanship or pointing fingers. This is about trying to come to an understanding of why these things happen. You accuse us of reducing this to a matter of "communities and religion". Well, what else is it about? Do you really think that problems can be solved without analysis and arguments? This is what we are trying to do here for whatever it's worth.

Mallika said: "Those whom I love in Delhi did not let the terrorists terrorize them... They didnt let them win."

Your folks, Mallika, seem to be very different from the people I know. Or your thinking is very different from mine. I think it is the latter.

I called my aunt and cousins in Delhi and spoke with them. They too were calm and composed. They were disgusted at the wanton violence that claimed innocent lives, and anxious that communal tensions might follow.

In my mind, the reason they were calm and composed had to do with the tragic fact that 55 people killed in India is, sadly, not an appalling event nor statistic. A bomb ripping through a bazar and shredding innocent children and women is no longer unique in India. Recently, Delhi had the nation's parliament itself attacked and bombed by some lunatics. Security for the general public is far from adequate. Everyone already knows that. So, when reckoning the probability that one would be at a place a bomb is detonated by lunatics, coupled with the ingrained Indian sentiment that everything is dictated by our fate anyway, people tend to acquire some distance from the realization that the victims could have easily been them. Now if someone was within visible or earshot distance from the attacks, the picture changes dramatically.

The "didn't let the terrorists terrorize them" is media speak, or better yet, political speak in my world.

And political speak can rarely get better than this, "I have lost friends to terror attacks and I'm sure many of you have. I want to bring a meaning to their life and justice to their death; I want to be able to tell my Martyr friends when I meet them that they did not die for a lost cause, there is hope and the hope is us."

The best way to succeed in life is to act on the advice we give to others [Anon]. Since I am using harsh words, I will reflect on that tonight.

Since yesterday evening I have been very disturbed. Sadly such bombings are not outside our realm of imagination any more. So more than shock, I felt a deep sense of sadness and helplessness. I saw on the TV how so many innocent people were bleeding, sobbing and running in panic. The media, who brings it all to us, was often making it look like fiction with its dramatic commentary and with camera zooming into people's wounds and distraught faces. I switched it off as I could take it no more. Maybe I didnt want to deal with the contradictions of life. Forget anaysis, I just didnt want to see it any more. It was too disturbing.
As we had to go for dinner to a friends place, we debated if we should and finally decided we will. There it was nice with all the diyas (lamps) and good food etc. People talked about the bomb blast and after expressing their sadness exchanged notes about the roads being empty and how they didn’t have to face the Diwali traffic! Then the conversations moved onto other things, as if it was business as usual.
What is scary is that we are getting used to violence and taking refuge in intellectual analysis and arguments. We are becoming violent ourselves by constantly pointing fingers at others and adding to the collective violence. We are making gross generalisations and interpreting things to suit our point of you. The reality is that people are suffering all over the world, all around us. These are people who have never really had a say in anything. Can we please not add to this violence and stop this one upmanship? Its frustrating enough not to be able to do anything constructive to help out this depressing situation, but can we at least stop being destructive. By reducing the discussion to communities and religion, we are forgetting that we are talking about millions of individuals. Each one equally precious. In every community there are women, old people, children and also men who are out there struggling to just survive. They are the biggest victims of all our hatred and prejudice. Lets strongly condemn all forms of violence and try and "be the change that we want to see in the world".

Nandita, you are absolutely right.

Any thoughts on how a (this) blog can be used effectively, by both the topic posters and the people who comment to directly address this?

I stay in Delhi.

As I was planning to go out for my Diwali shopping yesterday, I got a call from a colleague asking me to stay indoors. It came just in time; in 10 minutes, I would have been out. To one of those crowded places.

My immediate neighbour bought a bottle of soft drink from the shop next to the one which exploded in Sarojini Nagar. He got in his car, drove for 50 metres and boom! He was shaking when he reached home - with a 5 month old infant.

It's alright to come up with the phoney, fashionable baloney - 'there's no panic'; 'we remain together'; 'the terrosists aren't winning, we are' and hokum.

But what I ask is this: why is it that only my festival got spoiled, why is it that only my celebrations got dented, why is it that only my god got targetted?

This are things that deserve a tough answer. And about time, because frankly speaking - it's all getting a bit too much now.

I stay in Delhi.

As I was planning to go out for my Diwali shopping yesterday, I got a call from a colleague asking me to stay indoors. It came just in time; in 10 minutes, I would have been out. To one of those crowded places.

My immediate neighbour bought a bottle of soft drink from the shop next to the one which exploded in Sarojini Nagar. He got in his car, drove for 50 metres and boom! He was shaking when he reached home - with a 5 month old infant.

It's alright to come up with the phoney, fashionable baloney - 'there's no panic'; 'we remain together'; 'the terrosists aren't winning, we are' and hokum.

But what I ask is this: why is it that only my festival got spoiled, why is it that only my celebrations got dented, why is it that only my god got targetted?

These are things that deserve a tough answer. And about time, because frankly speaking - it's all getting a bit too much now.

IT IS THE PEOPLE STUPID!,

today you can jump from one religion to another, like from one thought to another.So we can not label people based on their faith.

so called intellecual idiots, try to understand everything using words have come up with non sense.

So what is the real reason behind violence, live your life with a lot of love, carefreeness and lot of comedy , you can feel the answer... I just leave is as that

THERE WERE HINDUS DOING DIWALI SHOPPING AND MUSLIMS DOING ID SHOPPING.

and both are dead.

A heartfelt wish that everyone who is afected by this tragedy, is taken care of by loving hands and hearts.

This terrorist act is a clear indication of Terrorists' presence in the heart of India. They succeeded at the time when most of us start believing that they have lost ground not only in JK but in India too. But what is more important is the reaction we see from the people. No panic, calmness. Perhaps it is time to show our unity to fight against terrorism. India has to come forward and come forward strongly.
There is something we should learn from a tiny country like Israel. Isn't we?

Divya, thank you and all for being the thrigger on this very subject for me. Every time i experience duality i watch myself walk this vicious circle again, knowing that there is a way in and a way out, a true labyrinth. It really brings me the gift i really need: Peace.
Peace inside surpasses all the opposites. Peace is the way to go beyond duality.
I truly hope that you are able to virtually try out and walk this Labyrinth of Peace, donated to the Chopra center and to all of us, based on the seven practices of becoming a peacemaker of Deepak:
http://lightbeacon.net/mvanderpoll

Peace, Mieke

TO ALL DUE RESPECT TO MIEKE & ALL THOSE WHO NEED PEACE

1.STOP TAKING YOURSELF SERIOUSLY
2.STOP BEING YOU(THAT ONE WHO NEEDS PEACE) - JUST BE

Hello Mallika and Everyone

Everytime there is a terrorists attack we hear someone say "we must not let the terrorists win" and I am pretty sick of it.

The terrorists do not care, about anything, period. To them the deed is complete when the objects of their destruction are blown to smithereens, when blood and bones and skin are covering the sidewalks and streets, when people without legs and arms and people burnt beyond recognition are carried away, this is the only thing the terrorists care about. They do not have a cause, they do not care about our response, whether we are calm or freaked, they do not care. They are in love with pain and destruction. Their absolute devotion to horrifics does terrify me.

Mieke - thanks for the labyrinth link - I love labyrinths. Is this the one from North that was being discussed recently? I was unable to open it and I remember there were instructions to do so. If this involves more than just clicking, could you tell me the steps?

Andaleeb - sorry i overlooked your question earlier. yes, I lived in delhi from age 16 through 27.

I think these terrorists (in Kashmiri and other areas) are absolutely famished pig shits who seem to care about nothing. I think their entire family from parents to siblings are to be blamed for their faulty upbringing which leads them to be such pathetic suckers. I think a better idea to go after these morons would be to not only go after these terrorists but also publicly deface their families.

Dhurender - Most of the time the families do not know what their children are up to and are in utter shock when they discover the truth. In fact, the terrorists themselves are mere cannon-fodder. Please take 5 breaths and look deeper into where this terrorism is coming from.

Spot on, Dhurender.

There are many here who keep stating that "good and bad" people are found in every religion and that the problem is fundamentalism. This is absolutely true.

But please note and think about the point that Divya has made - there is a basic difference in the assertions made by certain religions. Christianity and Islam (and Judaism) state in their central doctrine that there is only one truth and they are preaching it. They also explicitly state that they can be the only "channels" for realizing this truth. Anyone who does not align with their flavor of truth is against them. Christianity and Islam have wiped out entire continents in defense of these beliefs – the America’s once harbored a civilization that was much more sophisticated than its barbaric conqueror. Christianity has slowed down in the last few decades and shifted its practice from a violent enforcement to more guileful methods of conversion and manipulation through one of the largest propaganda machines that any corporation would be proud of. Islam on the other hand is sticking to its guns and continuing on its brutal methods.

These religions have always presented a problem to religions that are intrinsically plural, and tolerant of competing claims of truth. These religions have spread without violence – Hinduism was once the dominant religion across South-east-asia, Bhuddhism – which spread almost all over the civilized world almost 2 millennia ago (and we talk of “globalism” today!). Hindus, Buddhist’s and other pagan’s have to understand that the stance of Islam and Christianity is basically an aggressive and violent one – it starts by saying “you are wrong, we are with the truth and we have the right to enforce it”. How do we react to this violence thrust upon us? Our systems of education have been broken, the history of our country and people is either taught watered down (for fear of communism) or from the point of view of our English colonizers. There are few among us who have the will to think rationally and without sentiment. Hindu’s are different, let there be no debate about that – the only way to test this assertion is to look at the history of how Hinduism has treated outsiders, the so called Hindu fundamentalism is not new, but it is not an aggressive movement, but actually a defensive one – it is a resistance organization – let the propaganda machine not fool you.

The debate has to be shifted from “good and bad people” - this is a war about ideologies, it is not new but hundreds of years old and it will not go away by sentimental hogwash. Please know your own ideology and be prepared to defend it in any capacity necessary.

Paradoxically, although I have just arrived in India I found myself a few meters away from one of the blasts...

words simply cannot describe what goes on when faced with such an intense moment of destruction ...

right there .. as it unfolds...

moment by moment ...

so intensily alive it feels as if suddenly time stands still and there is only this violent trepidation that makes no sense...

specially to those who are faced with it ...

in ways which leaves their name buried in bloody sand ..

I feel bewildered ...

and wish I could find words to those who suddenly lost all they had , including their loved ones...

father and son ... mother and child ...

well this terrorism is islamic in nature and make no mistake about it.without the help of local muslims no islamic terrorist can operate.and thanks to congress party whith no law to deal with terrorism,india has become a safe heaven for terrorists.

lets face it with no POTA,no TADA we are indeed a very soft state.

In her book "Conscious Evolution", Barbara Marx Hubbard says the following:

"Let's compare our situation with the metamorphosis of a caterpillar into a butterfly. When the caterpillar weaves its cocoon, imaginal disks begin to appear. These disks are a natural part of the caterpillar's evolution, its immune system recognizes them as foreign and tries to destroy them. As the disks arrive faster and begin to link up, the caterpillar's immune system breaks down and its body begins to disintegrate. When the disks mature and become imaginal cells, they form themselves into a new pattern, thus transforming the disintegrating body of the caterpillar into the butterfly."

When Dr. Chopra came to speak in Kitchener, Ontario, Canada, he closed his lecture with the same analogy. This is what he is attempting to do with his Alliance for a new Humanity, and this blog, I believe. People like the ones who planted these explosives are a part of the caterpillars immune system. The imaginal cells do not fight back, they just keep increasing and joining together until they form a new pattern. We must do the same and one day we will see ourselves emerge as a beautiful new butterfly. I love this analogy and I wear a little gold butterfly around my neck just to remind me that I must play my part.

Terrorists are communication from the body that all is not well?

As I said before it is the fear in the minds of our enemy that we must dissolve, this is our target.

First we must understand, then communicate, and act to destroy the Illusions.

We must collectively share the intention to remove Ego from power and influence.

~Richard Thomas

Sad to hear about the loss of lives. Maybe if Indians converted to Islam, they wouldn't be a target any more. After all, all faiths are the same and lead to God. If adhering to Islam keeps one's family and friends safe, maybe it's the sensible thing to do.

Also, it would remove the rationale for Kashmiris to seek secession since they'd be happy to be a part of an Islamic country.

I'm told that these blasts were set to coincide with sunset, when conservative Muslims are home breaking the fast. So maybe the terrorists were counting on Muslims not being in the shopping areas around that time.

This may be construed finger pointing. But please bear with me a moment. The goal of the intent blog in its very own words:

"To present original voices on and from Asia and India to inspire, stimulate and engage a dialogue about new paradigms of creativity, communication, and fulfillment".

Hot-off-the-press news with poor to no insight do this goal absolutely no justice. You invariably get what you ask for.

Still havent gotten through to Delhi, but did after several attempts since yesterday, to Jammu today and talk to mom and my sister..to find out frieds and family were okay but it was heart rending to see the images..my sister echoed Nandita's thoughts about the media sensationalising the news to get maximum viewership for their channel. Dad, strangely predicted something like this would happen in a couple of days, three days ago having had years of training in military intelligence, and seeing what was going on.
I'm simply filled with sorrow at what is happening and a helplessness that we cannot correct the ills wrought by, in the end, not religion but by humanity. Religion is just one of the many weapons we use to destroy our own.

Divya; Mieke's labrynith is a 3-4 hour download; but, Aurora saw it last week; and says it's awesome!! I downloaded it; but, couldn't run it, after all that waiting...ugh!

Peace and good "will" towards all,

North

Divya, thank you for your interest in my labyrinth. It depends on your computer how long the download will be. It is a file of 32 MB. I placed a text file above it, explaining what you have to do. Hope this will work out. Mieke

Mieke, I just viewed the picture-templates of your labrynith at my place in space site(smiles.) and welcome aboard by the way Mieke; I just responded to you there.

From what I see, Aurora was right; looks awesome; and I wish I could see it; in 3-D as intended;

but, as I've mentioned; my PC is a dinosaur by any standard; that's why I assumed it would take everyone's PC that long..lol.. I use much of my space for my designing programs to do my hobby. Some make great avatar/icons.

To drift back into topic, dear Mallika;

you are observant; and thank you for pointing out a fact in my post waYy above this one; on "absorbing" the chaos within ourselve's via media and event.

There's been no backlash towards you specificly that I see; but, I did see you feel responsible for the disharmony that "other's" views, fueled; otherwise you wouldn't appologise.

But, you strive; I see, to maintain peace and harmony.

Please, I hope you understand that their perspective's is theirs; it was not created from your post/topic. It was created from which already resides in their present heart/mind/spirit and ultimate thought.

You did not necessarily provoke or evoke negative response; people simply portray'd of themselve's; that, which already existed within their thoughts.

But, indeed; if there were no colour or religion; and we coloured ALL human beings, pale purple; I wonder if things would change in perception about each other; around the globe? Or, would we merely study on how; to become different shades of pale?

I know I am far-reaching; but, we must all see each other without religion/colours/politics and see each other; as fellow beings, sharing earth-space. Because that really IS, all that we ultimately, are? Recycled, old souls.

North

What happened in Delhi is sad; whats happenning on this blog is sadder. Lets stop yapping for a while, and lets do what we can for the time being- lets go out and help whoever we can in whatever possible way. I am leaving for Delhi (from LA this week); if any of you in Delhi could guide me to even one family of the victims, I would be thankful to you.

Hi Divya,I am very happy to hear your mother is doing well. The following is an answer to your one sentence,"Religions which claim that there is only one God are intolerant by definition."I assume you mean all the biblical religions.I believe you will have to add Hinduism to this list for the following reasons.When you do, you are calling all Hindus as intolerant too.

The Upanishads describe God or Brahman as follows.Thou art fire. Thou art air.Thou art the waters. Thou art the Sun, the Moon, the Stars.Thou art Man, Woman, Youth, Maiden. Thou art the Butterfly, the green parrot, the Thundercloud, the seasons, the seas.

Thou facest everywhere.Without beginning art Thou, beyond Space and Time.Thou art He from Whom sprang the three worlds.Filled with Brahman are the things we see.Filled with Brahman are the things we see not.From out of Brahman floweth all that is. From Brahman all-yet is He the same.

Brahman dwells with in all, He dwells without all.He is present in the lotus of the heart of all (Anahata Chakra). He is imperishable. He is speech, He is mind, He is real, He is immortal.He is permanent.Everything else is Transient.

From Brahman are born Breath,Mind, Organs of sense, Ether, Air, Fire, Water, Earth. He holds it all together.

He is formless.He is unborn.

I would like to add a famous quote of Shri Swami Vivekananda," God is a circle with Its circumference nowhere and center everywhere." 'Every point in that circle is living, active, and equally working."

God created the Trimurtis,Brahma, Vishnu, and Maheshwara to create, sustain,and destroy.

The reason we worship rivers is because we see God in the rivers, we worship Fire because we see God in Fire, we worship Air (Vayu) because we see God in air,we worship Mother Earth because we see God in her,we worship Trees (every small village in India has a Tree shrine) because we see God in the tree, and on and on.We believe in idol worship because we see God in the Idols.THAT DOES NOT MEAN THERE IS MORE THAN ONE GOD IN HINDUISM.

I would like to request you to read a book,"Jesus lived in India." I found it most enlightening. It is written by a German author who proves this fact.You will realise that Jesus studied Hindu and Buddhist scriptures during his childhood,and adolescent years.The essence of Upanishads, Buddhist teachings, and Original Bible(before it was altered)are very similar.

May God bless you Divya.Geeta.

To those people who try to use this heinious act of terrorism to promote their message of hatred, I have only one thing to say

YOU GUYS ARE NO DIFFERENT FROM THOSE TERRORISTS. Shame on you guys.

Gita - Brahman is not God by any stretch of the imagination. Christianity and Islam have a long history of interpreting their doctrine. Perhaps you should study what they mean by God and you will understand the difference. It is not up to your personal whim to interpret what their traditions mean. Hindus do not have any concept equivalent to God, whether we use this word when speaking in english or not. A xtian or a hindu may use the same words but the important thing is what they *refer to* when they use this word.

Moreover, Hindus say (1) there is one god (2) there is no god (3) there are a million gods (4) there is nothing. You can believe in one of the above concepts, none of these, all of these, or sometimes one or the other.

And pagans were slaughtered precisely because they saw god (deva, ishwar, bhagwan) in rivers and mountains and snakes and elephants. In fact it's inaccurate to say they saw god in them. They simply treat the entire mountain as god.

As for the others - Shiva, Parvati, Lakshmi, etc. featured in puranic stories - These stories help explain vedanta to ordinary people in a simple manner. You can literally believe this, or you can appreciate the analogy, or you can be utterly indifferent.

Deva = the luminous ones, generally the elements
Ishwar = controlling energy
Bhagwan = adored one, used for people as well

All of the above concepts have nothing to do with God the Creator as conceived by the xtians.

As for the bit about Jesus - nobody knows about his early life. There is all sorts of speculation, sells a lot of books. Hindus believe in jesus anyway. You can make up a god today and they will believe in him tomorrow. I too have a tiny idol of Mary, which I got simply because I liked it.

There is simply no comparison between our traditions and theirs. We have the freedom to believe in anything or nothing and we do not slaughter anyone for believing in the wrong god. Paganism is not religion. It is what existed in europe and arabia before xtianity and islam went into extermination mode and got rid of those traditions.

"we do not slaughter anyone for believing in the wrong god"

This was probably true till several decades back. The current day Hinduism is no different to other religions when it comes to intolerance.

But, there is no right or wrong God; that's the whole point!

War is about land/resources/money/power and greed; and has nothing to do with God. "Using God" is an ultimate crutch to keep the people's thoughts crippled in fear; and oppressed.

Every country is bound to celebrate the only ONE God, named aptly: "God" but, of course, in their cultural ways.

IF we could respect, that each religion and way is in resonating with God's presence; then what's the big hula-ba-lu?

God must be very disappointed in us all; God did not intend for us to segregate ourselve's as human beings in these ways, nor destroy that, which God built for us to live.

God had to have had a purpose, for building us all in various colour and design? IS it; to learn to live together; and the way to our evolution as human beings, is conforming at last; to one God entity?

Considering a count, of all the empty, cold, lifeless planets in our immediate solar system; we have no where else to go; when we ruin this planet.

Did we ruin the last one; and that's how we got here? IS that why "this" is the only inhabitable planet left in our vicinity?

AS Elmer Fudd, from Bugs Bunny once said: "Be afwaid, be vewy, vewy afwaid."

The world is being run by people; abusing the power of mind/desire/wealth/power/strength to abuse this planet and it's lifeforms.

This would not be God's Desire; nor Intent.

North

North - the whole point is that there is no God. Indian traditions developed various concepts simply as a heuristic while the so-called real God was developed as an imperialist ideology.

Mallika - these are touchy subjects and some discord is to be expected. Sorry for adding to your grief. Notice how it always boils down to the same discussion though - on both sides. I too hope we can move on.

But Divya; IF there were no God; then the theory of quantum physics would be thrown out the window; and it's been proven; physics is infinite; so how could anyone possibly believe, that there is not an entity; which has evolved to the supreme level of man's possible evolution?

"something or someone" created life from cold; our evolution is perhaps beyond our shores.

North

Kufr:
"Maybe if Indians converted to Islam......If adhering to Islam keeps one"s family and friends safe maybe it"s the sensible thing to do"
In this world at present the most sorry state is that of MUSLIMS living in MUSLIM COUNTRIES.
IRAQ fighting IRAN;IRAQ invading KUWAIT;SADDAM gassing KURDS;SUNNIS killing SHIAS in PAKISTAN;High "Caste" Muslims raping and slaughtering poor "Low Caste" Muslims in Pakistan.
Furthermore, the only muslims who find their voice to say anything sensible are those who have FLED to NON-MUSLIM countries.
As to the timing of the blasts to minimise muslim deaths:Remember every attack in the current war against MUSLIM TERRORISM has started near the 'holy' month of RAMADAN so that all the devout muslims are distracted from facing towards their 'HOLY STONE IDOL' and instead have to carefully watch their behinds less they get their gluteii blown all the way to Allah's JANNAT/HEAVEN where the 72 VIRGINS have an orgasmic time kicking these butts for fun while they are enjoying ham sandwiches and beer.
I have a better idea for promoting Islamic Unity=ONE [ if the enlightened mullahs continue with their JEHAD indeed the day is not far away that ther may remain only one rare muslim in this miserable world and the rest are frolicking with the holy virgins and NUBILE young LADS up their in their exclusive heaven]....SEND EVERY MUSLIM FROM EVERY NON-MUSLIM COUNTRY BACK TO THEIR HOLY ISLAMIC COUNTRY.THIS WILL GUARANTEE THEIR SELF-DESTRUCTION WITHOUT THE UNPLEASANT INTERFERENCE OF ANY OUTSIDE 'INFIDELS'.
Perhaps your mis-conception is that the [Hindu] Indians are afraid. The talk of non-violence may have lured you into this fallacy.Such error of judgement occurs out of conceit, ignorance or arrogance or food poisoning such as eating uncooked pork and all of the above are not good for the health of serious bloggers such as you.

Folks,

If we maintain the decorum of the comments section, it will be beneficial to everyone and it will help keep the comments unrestricted. Several blogerss including me have pushed their comments section to 'monitored' and 'restricted' mode because of flood of comments that might be offending and non rhetoric to many. I hope we don't do that with this site.

Most, if not all of you have great comments, but it would be nice if we try to keep it quiet and not LOUD (no all caps sentences please ) and lets try to balance the discussion to the core of the subject and not get carried away in a war of words and slandering groups / people/ religions/ countries etc. Then we all loose.

Looking forward to more healthy debates.
Yours in Peace
VJ

1.STOP TAKING YOURSELF SERIOUSLY
2.STOP BEING YOU(THAT ONE WHO NEEDS PEACE) - JUST BE ~ARJUNAN

Best advice I have seen.

Thanks for that , Mr.Thomas

Arjunan

All I can do is put down my immediate reaction when I first heard about this terrorist act about 2 hours after it occurred - sorrow, shock and an intense anger followed a bit later.

It was impossible to continue watching the grief of relatives at hospitals and repeated shots of the places involved. We went to these places so often that even though it is 20 years ago, it is still a very personal grief and loss.

That it happened on Diwali eve and just before Eid made it madness and added to the pain. I thought it best to let the anger engulf me for a while as the best way to get rid of it.

To me it is not about religion, its about manipulation of religion - totally unforgiveable and inhuman.

i feel atleast now the indian government shud wake up and close all the madrassas existing in India..
i dont think the govt wud provide security atleast the least they can do is eliminate these fundtamental schools...

Geeta, Thanks for taking the time to explain Diwali. It does sound festive like our Chanukah. I must say, these days....festive holidays seem more meaningful than ever.....

~joanie

North,

"IF there were no God; then the theory of quantum physics would be thrown out the window; and it's been proven; physics is infinite; so how could anyone possibly believe,"

What are you talking about? Where in the hell it has been proved that you need god to prove the validity of quantum physics? Please don't throw in these arguments based on some popular science author's interpretation of quantum physics.

Preethi,

It is not fair to ask for closure of Madarasas when you have RSS shakas breeding fundamentalists.

Well Krish, I got the notion from "What the Bleep Do We Know?"; it blew me away; so was I mis-informed by the movie? (uh oh, figures) Have I been duped?

sorry I wore my dumb-bells today(silly smiles) we all do carry them, from time to time.

North

Dear Mallika,

I am so sorry about the bombings and the stress all are going thru with these attacks. I also enjoyed Deepak's post and his perspective on terrorist. My new roommate is from Iran and is Muslim. And, he is very nice person who works in a hospital.

Love,
Char

Wow ... just scanned some of these posts and I would probably not have responded if I had read them. So just to say, I love Hindus as well as Muslims. .... sorry for putting my foot in my mouth again.

Krish; after reading your post; I'd realized I made a mistake in your interpretation, and you from mine, I think?

You say:

What are you talking about? Where in the hell it has been proved that you need god to prove the validity of quantum physics? Please don't throw in these arguments based on some popular science author's interpretation of quantum physics.

I say: Quantum Physics proves there is a God; otherwise the theory would be out the window.

How did we mis-communicate? (gentle smiles)

To Me< God is the supreme "being" from where we "go" and came from; the circle, fullfilled.

North

Krish; I do designing pictures as a hobby; and this one I'd made, speaks of my thoughts more clearly I think? It shows a silkened background, of threads of time; and a jeweled oval globe; in it; as the infinite universe; WE beings, the globes, ascending towards the centre(God) which created the spiral of life.

http://xs53.xs.to/pics/05441/gold.swirl.ds.jpg

Anyway; just to point you towards where my visions are tracking me towards.

North

I mentioned this in another post and decided to also mention it here as I feel I need to "talk" to my blog friends....

I just got the book, "Terrorist Hunter" by Anonomous, the story of an Iraqi Jewish woman who went undercover to infiltrate the Radical Islamic Groups operating in America...

I am only on page 6 and in shock. She is telling a story of being undercover in Chicago watching a dance recital of Arab American children doing their new routine, "How I became a Martyr". She goes on to talk about how the youth are acting out skits on how to kill....

This could be ANY color ANY religion, ANY group, but the most important thing to me is that this is where hatred is starting.....this is what is being taught to children. Children are so innocent and look to adults to believe in, so very much. I am so sad as I read these words yet I can not put this non-fiction book down.

This book confirms for me that we as parents CAN make a difference in the hatred and violence that at times seems so out of control. One at a time we can teach our children not to judge by color or race, by haves or have nots, to find peace in all that they do and do unto others as you would want for yourself....We can do this.

~Joanie

North,

Nice picture.

I appreciate your belief that "god" is the center of everything in this world. I didn't argue against it and I fully respect people's faith with respect to god.

My argument is that there is no proof that says "Quantum Physics proves there is a God". By proof I mean something that withstands the strict scientific standards. However, there are many theories that are floating around which interprets quantum physics in their own way and links it to the concept of "god". In my opinion, this is nonsense as it will never withstand the tests of scientific methods. Again, I want to point out that I didn't call the concept of "god" as nonsense. I am only ridiculing the interpretations of quantum physics given by certain authors. It arises due to lack of understanding of quantum physics. To put it simply, quantum physics is simply a mathematical apparatus which could explain the behavior of matter in this universe. Thatz all. It is not some exotic theory that proves the existence of "god" or "alien" or any "super natural things". I am emphasizing for the third time that I am not ridiculing the concept of god but I am ridiculing the notion that Quantum Physics proves the existence of god.

Thanks Krish; a better understanding has come about. From what I understood of QF-is that, because of it's concept; proved God existed.

I suppose I made my own assumptions about it's meaning and perceived the movie as "The Holy Grail."

LOL--I am laughing at myself now; and I hope you are laughing with me Krish.

And, glad you liked the picture; I enjoyed making it in spare time.

personal Question Krish; don't answer if you prefer not to; "do you believe in God?"

I do; yet, not as "a wizard" as some percieve God; I see God as internal and universal at the same time.

I have so much to learn, and I am grateful to be journeying with you and all on deep subjects, such as social and current events. I thank all in advance for such gentle patience(gentle smiles.)

North

North, here is what I have about the concept of god.

As I grew up and went to school, I was "taught" to believe in god. So I believed in god. I started off with the belief that god is responsible for everything that happens in this world. Slowly as I learnt science, I realized that many of the stuff which I thought were the acts of god are just acts of nature (as defined by science). The more science I learnt, the less I thought god did this, god did that, etc. At this point of time, science could not explain everything in this world. There are many mysteries which are yet to be answered by science. Till science answers them, I have to attribute these things to some unknown force (Basic physics teaches us that you need force for any change in the physical system). I consider this cumulative unexplained force (unexplained by science) to be responsible for all actions and changes that cannot be explained by science. I attribute the godly stature to this "unknown force".

I would say that it is more like "peeling an onion". You start with onion and call it god. You consider peeling as science. The more you peel, the image of the god you have from childhood gets reduced. Though this is not a perfect example, it is close enough.

To make the whole complex thing short, I will say the following. I believe in "god" and attribute god to certain forces that are not explained by science. But my god is not based on any religion. It is just an unknown force not yet explained by science.

Hope I could convey my philosophy of life "clearly" :-)

Krish; it is much the same way, for me. For each of us; this same realization I think comes; but to some, slower/faster than the other.

Wonderfully written and explained, thank you Krish. I doubt many could have said it any better.

North