Nicely written -

Couldn't desire be extended through everything in life though? If you look at it far enough, it can. You can go as far as saying that people desire the will to live and mature, its sort of like a form of encouragement. At the same time though, it sort of forms the lifestyle people choose to live. back to class... nicely written and i enjoyed it reading it greatly

:)

Deepak,

Desire is a state of mind that is translated in wants and needs. Buddhist, Jain and many Hindu thought systems teach to minimize the needs by curtailing wants. The intent is to be as little an impact on the rest, living and non-living.

The West, and the now the rest of the world through globalizations, is perpetually stimulated in increasing wants and needs. As number of needs and wants pile up, and resources fail to satisfy these, the negativity of human existence comes loose.

The weening from desire is gradual and the process teaches one a greater understanding of being in this world.

Yes, yes... immense frustration :D:D
Thank you, Deepak. I've learned to respect and cherish my desires, but once in a while my mind insists that things should be different than what they are :P:D

the mystery where even the desire itself is This!
love, Carolyn

Deepak,

Well spoken. I think being taught that desire for good things in life is somehow the antithesis of godliness has stifled creativity in many a person, including myself. Trying to overcome this 'meme' is much like the salmon swimming upstream....it's very hard, some make it, some get eaten by bears!!

In my personal life, the cultivation of desire has led me down paths that I never dreamed!! Some good...some I regret...but still, I have a wide eyed wonder about life that I would never have had, had I stifled it like I thought I was supposed to.

Thanks for being there to help us in this ever evolving, 'great big, beautiful world.' You have whetted my appetite for growth and life!!

ray

Thank you Deepak.

It's been said that complete detachment isn't so much a requirement for enlightenment but a by-product of it. Personally, I have discovered a beautiful freedom in your suggestion that if we trace all desires back to their source we get to bliss.

The key, of course, is to get to the source and rest with that.

With love,

Katie

The Spirit desires to BE at peace,
The Ego is goalsetting, with, if, inspired, an expansion of joy and happiness, regardless of goal, offcourse, if one practises the Law of Detachement,

Stepping in the field of infinite possibilities,
every moment of existance,

With Passion!

Dear Deepak,

I always loved the way describe desire in the Way of the Wizard. How each desire represents a different stepping stone in our growth toward the desire to reach God. This is paraphrasing of course, however the meaning is the same. I would add False beliefs & trying to have a desire meet a need it can't a form of warped desire to attachment with cause suffering when it comes to desire. Sometimes our culture, parents religion etc.. give us concepts we think we need to meet. When we buy into these False ideas we start a process of half heartedly trying to manifest someone elses ideas of the way things ought to be. Desire in and of itself is a good thing we would not be human without them.

I also love what you stated about renunciants, I have experienced you cannot renounce something truly until have experienced it on some level.

Keep the peace,
Tom

´desireless state makes no practical sense and can only distort healthy processes of growth, leading to immense frustration.´

Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi, in his Flow books,
explains, how, in psychology, true joy is found,
when ´inspired´, desire to create, and the proces of, and with absence, depression, and all kinds of mental problems occur,

Maybe a nice bridge to Leela,

Love,

Isn't it all driven by cause and effect? Where desire for something becomes the cause and when manifested the effects follow - whether 'good' or 'bad'. And isn't the whole process to learn, to grow, to 'get closer' to our true self? And does this not happen at different levels of spiritual development? It seems resonable to say that at 'lower' levels the desire might be for material things whereas at 'higher' levels it might be for knowledge, enlightenment, etc. Does it, therefore, ever end? If the ultimate goal is to become enlightened, then what happens when it is reached? Do we still have desires? And if so for what?

Desire is delicious. I would imagine attachment to out of control desire is not very delicious.

People who quote Buddha on this have not understood his position. Buddha, like many, many sages taught different things to different people depending on their level of receptivity. So a particular lesson may resonate with some and not others.

Maybe the climate of media saturation with sexuality has some people wanting to eliminate all desire, not understanding that is not a very good goal.

Desire, in some shape or form has been responsible for every artistic creation, including ourselves, on the earth. Maybe even the earth herself.

At Soul Match one of the questions is which of the seven deadly sins you have the most trouble with. I skipped it as I thought it was a ridiculous question, but it shows how prevelant that train of thought is.

"Suffering only accompanies desire when it is accompanied by attachment and that includes the attachment to "no desires"."

What a relief!

I think desire is fine as long as one realizes somewhere along the way in life that desires can never be fulfilled. Once that realization sinks in, there is no option but to begin to discipline one's desires. Or else live in the eternal hell of always wanting and wanting and wanting.

I would very much like to read more about this subject.

If you consider desire a co-creative process in life then perhaps this helps as not to be so attached.

Thank you, Deepak, for clarifying a topic that can be troublesome at times. Certainly desire needs to be tempered by wisdom, but as I look back, I have to say desire can't be all bad. If it wasn't for the desire to grow spiritually, I would never have been led to find you and follow the wonderful path I've been on for the past 10+ years, and for that I'll be eternally grateful. It makes me wonder if desire isn't one of the tools Nature uses to guide us in the direction it wants us to go?

There is a difference, of course, between personal desires, and pure ego desires. Not that there is anything wrong with pure ego desires; but thoes are the kind (where people let their own personal well-being and happiness ride on a specific desire or want it just because they 'should' or to make them feel goode about themselves) that end up not truely fulfilling the person, and leading them on wild goose chases all their lives. But other desires that you have, maybe you can explain, maybe not; are often how things get done.

Maybe you have a desire to go to the big city and go shopping one day. Some people would try to tell themselves not to waste money on something so foolish, or maybe you go and you meet someone who gives you some contact that boosts your career! Maybe you even find your 'soul mate' (if there is such thing) on your way out of the store! Then the desire to go shopping in the city wasn't foolish; it was the impulse that got you where you needed to be.

Spiritually inclined people think that they always have to renounce the material world to become spiritual. How silly! you ARE spirit; just playing on earth a while! Why would you go to the playground just to spend the whole time standing there looking across the street pretending you weren't on a swing?

I desire that Scott Masterson be real pleased that a 2005 Quill Awards Winner acknowledges Scott's stance that desire is not only a good and wonderful primal life-force essential to all evolutionary progress, but that none of the Masters and Avatars could have done what they did without an overwhelmingly powerful desire to subjugate their lower passions in order to transmute the energy of same into becoming the rocket fuel that fired the internal engines with enough thrust to break through the heavy dullness of the worn-out earth-bound shackles of the baser human tendencies that no longer serve a purpose--because the desire for that once secure level of development has been fulfilled!!!

In other words--Buddha exemplified an immesurable level of desire to overcome the known, when, as young Siddhartha, a princely character of 29, went against all known convention because he desired with all of his being to go "out in" the world and understand what suffering, sickness, old age, and death were--and why--because he "desired" to solve the mystery of these curses of human existence and liberate his fellow man from this maya!

Now that is desire! Nice work Scott for concurring with Deepak in lifting that heavy veil-of-a-guilt-trip about the true and essential nature of desire.

When I am most down-to-the-bone with sickness, despair, poverty, etc.--it is always that soul-level desire and love for learning new stuff that inevitably buoys me back from the depths of the dark abyss where desire for life seems to have ebbed completely from my soul. Dave

Dear DEEPAK,

I have certainly a lot to catch up but could you provide us in a later blog with the definition of desire or refer me to a previous one or even a book/article?

There must be some distinction between the different centres desires flow from. Could one then go further and differentiate between "high" and "low" desires, "healthy" and "dark" ones? Maybe we are confusing desire with pleasure ...

I am keen on your answer.

By the way, Congratulations for the recognition your work is receiving.

Kind regards,
Chryssoula

Desire gives birth to creativity and joy.

Dear Dr. Chopra:

Off topic here, but I have a question for you. What do you know of the theory of Schumann's resonance? From what I can ascertain, Schumann's resonance is a parameter from which one can calculate the earth's magnetic field. Thought is that there has been an increase in the cycles per second at which the earth's magnetic field has been resonating. If this is the case, is this affecting the brains of us humans? Aren't we conduits as well as originators of magnetism?

Sincerely,

onegirlmanyideas

“Guides are guides, not surrogates for life here and now.” ~ Deepak Chopra

A beautiful and hard truth ... for me anyway.

Thank you Deepak for going into more detail on the subject of desires and explaining it once again. You must be a very patient person and it does not go unnoticed. This past weekend, I too tried to explain desires to my son via what you have shared with us and it was difficult for me to put it in the correct words as you do. But you know what, my son understand and even helped me to form my sentences, as we grew toward one another. You see, my son has been very, very hard on himself for about 8 years, as he feels he cannot meet the expectations of God in the way he thinks he should. My son has even attempted suicide indirectly through drugs many times and has performed very dangerous activities that could have killed another, but God watched over him for some reason. So I just wanted to say thank you from the bottom of my heart for helping me so that I can help my son, even though is a struggle, we manage … 3000 miles away ;-) Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

Love, Char

QUOTE:

"Desire gives birth to creativity and joy."

Posted by: marjorie at October 12, 2005 06:42 PM

------------------

Yesssssss, creativity is THE WAY we make visible; what is within us : ) Sing, Dance, Write, Paint, Design, Build...

Those whom can create on literature on paper and pictures on canvas, digital designs on the PC and movies on the silver screen; are the visionaries and the seer's(sorry if typo'd) that keep creative juices flowing among their fellow peers.

such as Deepak; and his winning book, "Peace is The Way!!" Deepak is; as we all know, a well-in-the-know writer, about what he writes about..so much so; it's "easy to read, for just about anyone to follow through, and he can be so creative and organized with it; as to capture our intrigue, enough to buy it...filled with powerful pages, to learn from.

Congratulations Deepak, on your gift of desire, your NEW AWARD; and for sharing it with the world.

North

So then, desires can be both good and bad...For instance, if you live your life seeking evolvement and enlightment, you are not relying on your ego. However, if you live your life in fear, you are relying on your ego for fulfillment, right?

Thinking aloud...

There is no life without desire. Everybody cannot be a renunciate and need not be. If everybody is a renunciate, world would be boaring.
In Hindu mythology, Lord Vishnu (the protector and worshipped by many) is said to be the father of the god of Desire, who came out of Vishnu's heart (that is where a desire originates). But Hindus worship Shiva, the destroyer of Desire as well. That is because desire does create conflicts. This fact was illustrated to us in the story of Rama. Ravana had desire for Rama's wife Sita. Even if Ravana did not abduct Sita as the story goes, Ravana's desire created a conflict between him and Sita, and between him and Rama. Resolution is possible and all three of them could be happy if and only if Ravana gave up his desire! Is it not desire for power the root cause of all the current White House scandals? I think everybody would agree that there is something wrong with greed for money or power. What is desire without attachment?
Do you mean something like throwing your heart and soul to play a match but not be depressed if you lose? If you are happy even after losing the match, that is because at that moment, you no longer care for the win. It is not as though desire is either always good or always bad. Desire is based on duality. You want something for your little self and that implies a relationship with object/s or person/s and may result in fulfillment or dissatisfaction. When we say desire for God and desire for peace, it is similar to using the word love for pure unselfish love without regard to race, gender, age, etc as well as for sexual love. The two kinds of love are not the same. The confusion is because our language may be inadequate for our expression.

There are two types of desires.One that makes you run away from yourself into illusions and escapes and the other that makes you face yourself and go beyond.

But most of our desires are the ones that take us away from ourselves.

Deepak writes " We can talk about how detachment is a natural progression, and on metaphysical points we can argue all we like. But to pretend that one is reaching for a desireless state makes no practical sense and can only distort healthy processes of growth, leading to immense frustration.'

oh well ...just when I thougth I had it all figured out ...

oh well ...

no attachement to attachement to desire to be desireless ...

yeah yeah yeah ...

who am I kidding ???

Deepak

Thank you! This is so sensible. It seems sometimes those who we look to for religious/spiritual teaching go too far to the extreme saying something so healthy is bad for us. If we did not have a desire for whatever it is we desire, there would be no way of progressing or regressing to learn the spiritual lessons we've incarnated into this lifetime to learn. And the sad part is, when those who are not enlightened believe they are bad for having these things, it makes for unhappy people. It is a misconception they have of themselves because they experience something they have been taught is bad and makes them unworthy of good. It is truely sad that this exists. I am glad you are there to show us the better way.

Namaste
June

There is an "i" in desire but there is no "i" in love.

I came across this conversation about desire in the book "Consciousness Speaks" , conversations with Ramesh S. Balsekar:

Question: It always seems to me that if I'm to function, there has to be a desire or an expectation to produce the motivation for the function. Otherwise the functioning stops.

R. Balsekar: Every body-mind organism has been conceived and constructed with certain characteristics and those characteristics will never cease to function.

Q: Even without desire?

R.B. Yes, even without desire, without this motivation, which brings along with it, inherently, the sense of anxiety. Without this motivation which brings with it anxiety, the work will proceed much more smoothly. The body, the mind will continue functioning. It cannot stop functioning simply because the non-existent "me" says, "I have no more motivation,therefore why should I work?" You cannot not work. The body-mind organism will continue according to its natural physical, temperamental, and mental characteristics to perform duties which have been programmed into it.

Q: Seems like the desires have also been programmed in.

R.B. Yes indeed! That's why listening to what I've said could reduce the desire or suddenly bring about the flash of understanding, "That is so!" Or it may have no effect at all. The effect of what you have heard, also is not in your hands, is not a matter of volition. You can only wait and see what happens.

Desire is inherently a feeling of lacking something and therefore craving for it. Whenever we feel happy, that happiness is not because of a desire. It is actually because of that underlying blissful Consciousness and Oneness, which we are able to identify with at that moment, instead of our ego, the basis for individuality that separates itself from everything else. Identification with our ego creates desire immediately because desire is nothing but the craving to realize that Onneness again. By acquiring/achieving a desired object/goal we lose the tie with ego temporarily and experience the bliss of that natural state of Onneness. Vedanta asks us to realize that happiness and bliss really do not depend upon external objects but that they are actually within us. Dependence upon external objects to experience happiness is what makes us limited; we are happy when we acquire/achieve them and unhappy when we fail. So, desire in itself is not wrong unless it goes to the extent of trying to acquire/achieve the desired object at the expens of others; then it creates conflict.
In the desire for peace or desire to know God, the desire is really to extend the circle of identification from the single point of our ego to include other beings, in other words, trying to break the ties with the single ego. So it is a better way to try to achieve happiness than trying to achieve an object for your own single self. Hindu and Buddhist philosophies emphasize this point but they do not really condemn desire.
Of course, everybody condemns pursuit of desires if that pursuit hurts others.

Hi All,

The desire for material wealth, in my opinion, is ultimately the desire for God. It seems that we have this "itch" to continually move forward, to evolve. Even a renunciate "desires" to give up material wealth in exchange for a higher consciousness or connection with God or whatever you want to call it.

It seems that we search always for the next thing to make us happy or complete. Maybe on some level we are designed that way, designed to keep moving, keep changing. After all, if the Universe can be characterized as anything it is change. However, focusing some part of our awareness on the changelessness of our inner being allows for the Universe to play out its evolution through our desires, while at the same we avoid the drama that is caused by identification with desire.

Peace,
Scott.
PS - David,
Always grateful for Deepak whether he's a Quill Award winner or not :0).

Sometimes I desire to recognize or identify my desires.
~Sharon H.

Scott: Just teasing a bit--hope I didn't embarrass you. Dave

Great input Bob!! I liked what you said....what everyone has said : )

Sometimes, online "chattering" between we complex "beings" can indeed, be "desiring."

Question: IS desire OUR manifestation; or that of the Higher Being/Source? IF the desire is indeed chain-linked inherently by our genetic/spiritual make-up....are we really "in control" of our desires indeed?

OR< are we merely, like the rose,,,,reaching for the sun? Do we want to be that close to it...or is it in our make-up, to spontaneously, and instinctively, reach for it; because we cannot stop the growth(reaching/evolving?)

North

SharonH......I echo your sentiments, with a ditto... my desire too, is to "clarify" my desire...

Sometimes, I feel like the void in the pandora box, not the box itself!! : )

North

David,

Just teasing back...it takes a lot for me to be embarrassed (especially on line) :0).

Scott.

Hello Honey (Scott)! How do you like that, quoted by Deepak again! I guess great minds think alike. ;)

Love, Kristin

About 5 or 6 years ago I saw this quote from the Upanishads on Deepaks old HTKG website:

"You are what your deep driving desire is. As is your desire so is your will. As is your will so is your deed. As is your deed, so is your destiny."

For an unknown reason that really spoke to me even though I didn't have any real understanding of what it meant. And of course, there are a lot of ways you could interpret it and a lot of meaning that you could come away with. But for today, what strikes me is this:

"You are what your deep driving desire is."

If that's the case then, becoming intimate with desire seems pretty important to me. Even if the desire does not seem so pretty on the outside. Acceptance and love and continuing to go deeper are the keys to understanding and transformation. Denial of desire or trying to pretend it away is false and only creates more suffering as we STRUGGLE to be someone or something we are not.

Ultimately, as others have mentioned already, I think all desire is the desire for God. And that's something eventually we discover we don't need to search outward for at all. And yet, here we are playing together in this life - - and why not enjoy our humanity and our ultimate quest for the divine??? I mean, how INCREDIBLY FUN to see the divine at play all around us? And within us?

Everything is okay. Even desire. It's just the struggle - the attachment - that makes it hurt.

Love, Kristin

One of the most important things I learned from Deepak was to just keep doing the meditations and sutras and let go of the results. Forgive your errors. Have patience with yourself. Don't "try" to do better. It you desire to be more evolved, more loving & compassionate, less angry, etc. let that be your intent during your meditation and then go about your life.

I've been amazed at the results. As long as I was "trying" to do better, I failed. When I connected with my Self and let go, I found my life changing without my stupid interference ;-) When confronted with someone else's attempts at drama, more often then not, I have a moment of pause. The moment is a blink of an eye but it feels like it lasts forever - and in the time, I know I have a choice about how to react and if I breath and reconnect within, I find that I want to respond with love. I DESIRE it. It becomes nonsensical to respond in any other way.

I don't fight my desires... any of them. I believe they are all there for a reason and Scott, what a great way to put it that they are there for us to evolve. If I connect with my Soul, my desires can never be wrong so I've given up letting my ego-filled brain tell me otherwise and I just follow where they take me. Funny, but as long as I keep meditating with a sincere heart, they have only led to love, creativity and bliss.

And what is God(dess) but Divine Bliss?

Passion Desire Inspiration... My mind used to speed up until I got mentally exhausted, and it wasn´t really funny at all.( Probably a hypersensitivity problem.) So, desire became a drama, in whatever.
Meditation became the steadiness in mind-altering situations. And what Sheba tells, the importance of the Sutras.
From my personal evolution I can tell that what one call desire has recovered a new reality, it is a question of the heart and not of the mind. As simple as this, but yet I know I have had to change the perception. My mind has become the witness of my heart´s desires.
Sometimes I wonder if every heartbeat is a cosmic desire... the origen of our desires.
Love:)

"There is an "i" in desire but there is no "i" in love." - Bob Fisher

There's no "we" or "us" in it either. Must be a typo.

I read the most of the comments and it became apperent to me that Deepak has you all going in circle!

Desire is a necessary mechanism through which life perpetuates itself. Life implies desire, not other way around. Actually, there are many such constructs by which life exists and perpetuates. The underlying issue here is whether we see us as spiritual entity with in an organized body, or the result of an organized body.

I believe, Buddhist, Jain and certain Hindu perspective is correct that uncontrolled desire is the root cause of misery.

For those practical minded, here is a challenge: desire, when satisfied, usually results in a negative effect. You eat, but you must kill before you eat!

Or, if you satisfy your sex urges on a unwilling person, it is a rape! Now, how would it be defense to say that I was satisfying my desire.

K. Vora,

Underneath any desire is a deeper one and it is of value to search for what one really desires. I don't think anyone is condoning becoming a rampant libertine. Desires are there for a purpose, but our interpretations of them (or rather misinterpretations) often cause them to come out in destructive ways.

For example, I may unconsciously desire to transcend this level of consciousness, but it manifests in me as desire for alcohol or drugs, and I may temporarily transcend my current consiousness by using those substances, but underneath of course I am unfullfilled because the effect is artificial and temporary. So I do it again in an attempt to get what I didn't get before. I'm drinking Jack Daniels, but what I really want is to know God. As long as I indulge the superficial manifestion of my desire based upon my conditioning, I will be frustrated and experience suffering. It is my job to sift through these things with compassion and discover what I truly desire and allow for a healthier more evolutionary manifestation of that desire.

You mentioned rape. Rape typically is a crime of power. A rapist may have a desire to find his power in life, but due to an abusive background, he has been conditioned to believe that the way to satisfy this desire is by victimizing another human being. He rapes and is temporarily lifted into a place of power...but it is temporary, so he does it again, etc. This is karma. He has a desire, takes an action, attaches a feeling to it which creates another desire. His deeply hidden desire is to claim his birthright to power as a being of Light, but due to his conditioning, he causes suffering for himself and those that he comes in contact with.

The desire is not the problem, his lack of awareness of the real desire and how to satisfy it is.

Peace,
Scott.

SCOTT:

I almost gave up on myself reading the posts here.

K. VORAS post saved me the time of a vial condemnation of all posting here

And then your post.

I am struggling with a phantom for 29 years.

I pray this site and your clear words may lift me.

Your words just now could not have come at a better time for me.

...... "We can talk about how detachment is a natural progression, and on metaphysical points we can argue all we like. But to pretend that one is reaching for a desireless state makes no practical sense and can only distort healthy processes of growth, leading to immense frustration."

Hi Deepak,

......I am not sure that to say one is pretending, is truly descriptive of some seekers earnest quest.

I am discovering that there are so many ways to live Life, and to balance (and fulfill) my desires so as not to lead to frustration! :)

My life is a seeking at present to find balance - living in community, having a career, raising a daughter, and fulfilling my need for food and shelter! (is that food need ever completely fullfilled? ..... when it comes to chocolate, NO :)

For some time, my desire to grow spiritually and be in sync with other seekers, seemed to go unanswered. I really was feeling - frustrated!!!

I have observed arguing - is not limited to metaphysical topics!

I have also observed (and experienced) - the desire that seems inherent in each of us, to be right, to defend our beliefs and opinions. To be on top of every situation and argument.

That old adage: 'that's my story, and I'm sticking to it' came to me recently - when I was reading some of the posts, and wondering - where I still want to hold on to the desire that my story is the right one!

Healthy responses, healthy desires - are different
to each of us individually. But I also see and feel Universal desires - for compassionate understanding, allowing for differences without killing, Unity in our Beingness.

We are complete from the moment we are born.
Do we really know this at core? From appearances, this does not seem True.

Seeing with clear awareness, it is True. This is the discovery that brings wholeness, and joy.

Love and Blessings to all,
~~ K

How many kinds of DESIRES are there?

Absurd, evil, good, illusory, intense, insatiable, karmic, manic, right,reasonable, sensuous, sensible, suppressed, sublime, spiritual, torturous, troublesome,wrong, unconscious, uncontrollable,undisciplined, bad ,beautiful,colossal,conscious,dominating, delicious.

Then there is DESIRE for learning, knowledge, beauty, power, position, wisdom, intelligence,ability to deeply listen and understand, creativity,humility,modesty,infinite empathy, compassion,healing hand,observation power,popularity,,affection,love of humans and Gods,and for a world filled with love and tolerance.

There is desire to have material things, such as money,car, house,jewelry, clothing,good food and gadgets.There is desire to have a loving family, lots of good friends.

Then there is DESIRE to have the Infinite Love of Father and Mother God.There is the Desire to have a quiet mind ,to be able to control thoughts,to be good and to be of service.

THEN THERE IS DESIRE TO LIVE.When man's DESIRE to live is severely shaken by any cause,Death arrives.The heavy overcoat of the flesh is temporarily shed.The soul however remains encased in the astral and causal bodies.The cohesive force by which all three bodies are held together is DESIRE.The power of unfulfilled DESIRES is the root of all of man's slavery.

Physical Desires are rooted in egotism and sense pleasures.The temptations of sensory experience is more powerful than DESIRE-FORCE connected with astral attachments or causal perceptions.

Astral Desires are connected with astral being's power to precipitate all objects and experiences as forms of light or as condensed thoughts or dreams.

Causal Desires are fulfilled by perception only.

As long as The Soul is encased in one or two or three body containers ,sealed tightly with corks of ignorance and DESIRES,it can not merge with the SEA OF SPIRIT.When Desirelessness is attained through wisdom all the bodies of the soul will disintegrate and the soul will emerge free atlast to be one with THE MEASURELESS AMPLITUDE.

Deepak, May God bless you.

Dear Laurence,

Phantoms are shadows...shadows dissipate when the lights are shined on them.

Good luck and much love my friend.
Scott.

Ever so often I find myself overwhelmed by what I read here and equally often find myself totally out of my depth. Going back and really concentrating on every word, at first, somehow actually adds to the confusion. Slowly, for me, the meaning comes through in perhaps a very simple way even perhaps oversimplifiied for others but thats how it works for me.

"I fully agree with responder Scott Masterton when he says, "Without desire there can be no change, only stagnation."

To me, desire is what enables me to set goals for myself and my life.

Thank you Scott Masterton,

Although as a lawyer I can say that the defence would most probably give the court a hard time when using such arguments,
your post of 13 October, 2:29 has definitely shed some light on the matter and partially answered my definitory questions above.

Your background is obviously related to psychology ...

Kind Regards

Scott stated: Underneath any desire is a deeper one and it is of value to search for what one really desires.

If you change "what one really desires" to "why one really desires", the rest of your post would not be necessary. Deepak addresses the "what" and justifies it to be good. In the process, he disdains those who advocate rational minimization of the "whats and wants". One can live a very happy life while reducing the wants. The late Prime Minister Shashtriji comes to mind.

Also, could you show me any desire, (except, may be probably will to live), that is not transient?

"But to pretend that one is reaching for a desireless state makes no practical sense and can only , leading to immense frustration."

Deepak,
One cannot say that all those who are trying to reach the desireless state are pretending. Some of them may be sincere and even for those who are sincere, it is very difficult to reach that state - I agree. But to say that attempts to realize the desireless state distort healthy processes of growth is totally against Vedanta and all the wisdom of our sages. What do you mean by growth? Growth towards what? What is the growth getting closer to?
Moreover, this statement is self contradictory. Trying to achieve the desireless state is bad?
On the one hand, you yourself are saying that looking for God (Bliss, happiness, Consciousness) is also a desire. Desire for God is what motivates one to attempt to realize God or attain that natural state of onneness with God. Onneness with God is a desireless state, that is what Vedanta states. It is not right to discourage one to try to realize that state.

Scott,
"His deeply hidden desire is to claim his birthright to power as a being of Light, but due to his conditioning, he causes suffering for himself and those that he comes in contact with.
The desire is not the problem, his lack of awareness of the real desire and how to satisfy it is."
You are trying to point out a distinction between desire, attachment, and conditioning, etc. I agree- there is a deeply hidden desire to claim his birthright to power as a being of Light (it is consistent with my thoughts in a previous post). Besides conditioning, there is also illusion, misconception, and not to be able to understand the original desire and to think that the power over the other human being would give him fulfillment. Unfortunately, more often than not, (probably almost always), all these factors: attachment, conditioning, illusion, ignorance, misconception, misinterpretationm etc. immediately follow the original desire and lead to all the suffering in life that we see. That is why wise people advise us to have control over our desires and control over our minds. When one says "Control your desires" it does not sound appealing. But to keep emphasizing "there is nothing intrinsically wrong with desire" is also not safe because desire often goes out of control and leads to hurting others.

K. Vora,

Other than Spirit there is nothing that is not transitory. :0).
Peace,
Scott.

I think most of the saints (Budhdha, Mahaveera, Gandhi, etc.) advised to control the desire for "material things" or worldly affairs and nurture their spiritual desire.
Hence, the preaching for simple life so that everyone can live comfortably and peacfully.
A desire for new clothes every season or new car every 3 years and different from desire for inner peace and desire to help others.

Syamala,

You made my point very well in your post Syamala, desire is not the problem at all. The problem is illusion, attachment etc.

To be human is to desire, even if you desire less desires, or desire to control your desire. Desires don't have to be acted on at all, they can be used as guides to higher consciousness.

Peace,
Scott.

Scott,

Buddha would tell you to contemplate on Spirit. In that light, look at your construct:

there is nothing that is not transitory...

So, do I consider "Nothing" as permanent? If it is, why it is not transitory? Can I take this and apply to Spirit? gods?

Further comments:

Our language generally fail in addressing the fundamental "whys" because the life deals with "whats" and the language is adequate to deal with "whats" or desires..., but can not deal with Spirit. This, then, lead to perpetual discussions, and ultimately, we must accept that each blind man is describing the elephant through its limbs... The Spirit is like the elephant to blind men.

Peace.

For some reason I find this quote very meaningful:
"No ambition is spiritual. All ambitions are for the sake of the 'I am'. If you want to make real progress you must give up all idea of personal attainment. The ambitions of the so-called yogis are preposterous. A man's desire for a woman is innocence itself compared to the lusting after an everlasting personal bliss. The mind is a cheat. The more pious it seems, the worse the betrayal." - Nisargadatta Maharaj

I suppose you could read that and interpret it as all desire being bad, even the desire for enlightenment. But I don't take it that way. It reminds me that desire is INNOCENT. It's the mind that corrupts and begins to evaluate, divide, judge and make distinctions. This desire is better than that one... I am somehow better than you and not quite as good as so and so. It's ridiculous really. What we all are is HUMAN and part of the human experience is desire. In accepting our humanity we also open the door to accepting our divinity as well -- and thus find the point of Choice within and learn to discriminate. What a want and what I MUST have are two completely different things. What stirs, excites, moves and arouses me is not something I MUST possess. But it's not evil either. It's part of being alive.

Love, Kristin

Kristen: Do you discern, or distinguish, a difference between "desire" and "ambition?" Dave

Hi Dave,
I think there is a difference. Ambition can come from desire, but desire doesn't necessarily create ambition.
Love, Kristin

When the personality begins to awaken to Spirit then its interest in materialism drops by the wayside. It is a matter of natural evolution. Some see this law as something to be forced or ascented to. What does it matter so long as one tries? If I were an illiterate peasant what would it matter if I chose to imitate Arjuna, if that was all I knew? Deepak is right, we start where we are, even each day, all over again. The awakening is "the inverse resolution of the potencies of Nature which have emptied themselves of their value for the (awakened) Spiritual man." --Yoga Sutras of Patanjali; Charles Johnston-commenary.

Yes, Sherry, that has been my experience as well.

While I have done medition for years, I was in a bad spot when I first starting doing Deepak's synchronicity sutras so all my intentions centered around my material needs. The sutras were so successful in turning that part of my life around, I've developed a strong sense of security and really *know* that I can take care of myself no matter what.

One day, while doing the meditation, I began to drop another intention into the gap that was about material needs when much to my surprise I spontaneously thought and felt "love". The next breath, same thing. I tried to refocus but found it futile. Apparently my Soul took over and showed the intention it REALLY wants, which is love.

I remembered that in one of his books, Deepak wrote that if you need material things, go ahead and make them your intentions. But just keep on doing the meditations/sutras. Once you feel some security, you'll naturally begin to intend higher spiritual values for yourself. He also wrote that when you align yourself with Spirit, you will desire what Spirit wants naturally.

In other words, don't judge yourself for wanting material things - it isn't wrong. Don't "try" to change your thoughts using your ego-filled brain. Just keep doing the meditations & sutras, keep loving and forgiving yourself, be patient and if you approach this with a sincere heart, you will get where you ultimately want to go in time.

Love, Sheba

Hi Sheba,
I really like what you said about being patient and sincere. Sometimes I wonder to myself - what's the big hurry? Everything in it's own time. :)
Love, Kristin

Dear Dr. Chopra,
I have been anxiously awaiting your follow-up post to the Mysteries of Desire piece.
I know many of us out here who read your books are very interested too. I sometimes wonder if some of the repliers to your blogs read your books at all.
Can't wait to read more!
Thank you,
Shirley

Hi Kristen!

I agree... all is as it should be.

Love, Sheba

Hello,

when you want something that may mean that you need something if you need something that may mean that you are lacking something if you are lacking something than you are away from what you truly are because there is trace of fear present you are not a royal you are a slave
this is different from participating in lila consciously where you know that you do not need anything but you want it there beacuse it is fun
when you want something sincerelly it usually is manifested but playing/lila is different than satisfying material "needs" psychological "needs" sexual "needs" etc.
in both instances (before lila and during survival mode) desires are tools to give us something
regarding the stagnation and mr. scott
growth, evolution is lila not needed but nevertheless is there to glorify it excessively may mean that one is not truly aware of their true nature.

Hi, Deepak, my DESIRE to forget this topic about DESIRE is not being fulfilled.I went to Shekhar's post, thinking, may be something else is being discussed there!NO!everybody is talking about DESIRE there too!So here is my DESIRE to write about DESIRE again.

Let us try to classify DESIRES into SPIRITUAL and NONSPIRITUAL.

Spiritual desires are associated with forgiveness,humility,patience,co-operation,and sharing etc.These desires respect the notion of UNIVERSAL ONENESS, an UNCONDITIONED UNIVERSAL LOVE.Spiritual desires help free a man/woman from the wheel of reincarnation.It is the nature of the desire, not the nature of the action or the word.Let us say a crazy man has a AK47 and is about to shoot.A policeman desires to shoot him and does so.the desire of the policeman is a spiritual desire.(Actually even the MAHABHARATA war is a spiritual war).

Non spiritual desires stem from the feeling of I am separate from the WHOLE.There is no love for others or for the WHOLE.These desires are associated with selfishness, fear, anger, vengefulness, jealousy, greed, guilt, lethargy, hatred, superiority, inferiority.Nonspiritual desires are the greatest obstacles on the spiritual path.Nonspiritual desires are the chains that bind man to the wheel of reincarnation.

So it is good to have spiritual desires,if one wishes to end the cycle of rebirth.It is ok to have any desires if one does not care.Atleast with spiritual desires we do not increase our negative karmas.So we have less karmas to work through.

Deepak, thank you for reading.God bless you.

Hi Geeta,
I tend to think that being part of spirit, all desires are spiritual, just as all people are spiritual. It's fear and attachment that corrupt and harm what is natural and innocent.

But then, I could be wrong and this is all just talk anyway. Sometimes I get confused and caught by this subject of desire. It's so central to life and so tied to our ideas of right/wrong, good/bad.

Love, Kristin

What happens when desire is marking the way to go back to a place which energies are so unclear(ignorance, envy, etc.) but intuition says you can do something good--is just to closing a circle? If cannot go back because of many circumstances how can I close the circle?

Hi Kristin,I am confused about the subject, "DESIRE" too.I went to a book store on saturday, to exchange old silly romances for something worthwhile to read,and I gave her 60 old books for 4 new books. After I came home I realised I had bought "SPONTANEOUS FULFILLMENT OF DESIRE" among others.Synchrodestiny or what! I have been thinking about desire for the last few days or has it been weeks!.I need to meditate upon it.

Kristin, have you read "Seth Speaks".I love that book.Any way Seth says,"True spirituality is a thing of joy. It has to do with the dance of consciousness that is with in us and the sense of spiritual adventure that is with in our hearts.The vitality of the universe is creativity and joy and love. And that is Spirituality".

Since I am also reading Deepak's book about Desire,it says emergent spiritual properties are clarity of awareness,knowingness,reverence for life, absence of violence,fearlessness,nonattchment,and wholeness.

You wrote all desires are spiritual.It depends upon your definition of spiritual.As I said earlier I need to ponder upon it. God bless you

Geeta: Did you read the other "Seth" books? I am being drawn back to Jane Robert's fiction pieces--like "The Education of Oversoul 7," and "The Further Education of Oversoul 7."

Did you have a chance to read these?

They would cast a very interesting light on the ideas you expressed about the wheel of rebirth, and breaking through the cycle of "one's endless procession of incarnations" if left uninterrupted by playing the same old broken record. Dave

I wonder where people got the idea that desire is bad. If it were true, wishing to live without desire is in itself a desire!
One of the reasons we are placed in this world is to enjoy it and make it a better place. We enjoy what we love but do not regret if it no longer have it. It is the attitude we bring to it that matters. This is,to my mind,detachment.

Hi Geeta, You must be wanting to fulfill some desires! Tell us if what Deepak says in his book works for you or not. :)

As far as those "silly old romances" go and now having things more "worthwhile" to read - you might consider that perhaps those romance books were worthwhile for you at one point, and maybe sometimes now too. I remember my husband and I arguing (ah-hum, "discussing") about our children watching certain cartoons on television when they were younger. At one point I said that there was "no redeeming value" to watching them! And he replied, "that's the point. It's just for fun!"

"Spiritual" books can be fun too. But then, romance can be very spiritual as well! And sitting with your children watching cartoons might be just as enlightening as Deepak's book... Who can say for certain where God's message will come from next?

Love, Kristin

Hi David,I have not read those books. I will look for them. I absolutely love Seth.Thanks David.God bless.

Hi Kristin, I used to love reading romances,especially Barbara Cartland. In one of my past lives I was in England in the 19th century(past life regression through hypnosis). Do you think that explains why I was so drawn to the stories of 19th century England? I did not care for the ones from Scotland or Ireland. You are right,I did learn spiritual lessons from even those books.Now I am not interested in reading them. Same thing with movies.I don't care for movies any more. There was a time,when I used to love watching movies.There was also a time I used to love singing Hindi movie songs.But now I only sing Bhajans(which are religious hymns in the praise of God). I am changing,actually I am growing old.Thank you for reading. May God always bless you Kristen.Geeta.

Hi Geeta,
I love bhajans too. Although I wouldn't say I can sing - I love to chant. I am very drawn to memorizing sacred chants. Mostly in Sanskrit. They profoundly affect me.

But then, sometimes I can't chant or listen to chanting very easily. My emotions are too "out there" and so I listen to something old and familiar, something from when I was a child that I used to hear on the radio. Or perhaps something with a different "feel" to it - loud and forceful, and shouting of my individuality.

It's pretty interesting. Everything in it's own time...

God Bless you too, Geeta.
Love, Kristin

ps. I've never read Seth. Perhaps someday.

Kristen: If you are drawn to the idea of spiritualist mediums, "The Seth Material" began it's most remarkable story in 1962, through the New York medium, Jane Roberts.

Jane Roberts had not considered that "her soul" agreed to play the role she did, with her life-long friend and mate, Robert Butts, who was an incredible artist, and the man who took Seth's messages down in shorthand dictation.

Even if you didn't like this kind of thing, "The Seth Material," and some of the other works brought into this world from this most dynamic trio (obviously including the 'Spirit,'-Seth!) such as "The Nature of Personal Reality," the information is sooooo......real--that many consider this work to have revived, if not opened anew, the real sense of the "New Age," so profound was the humble, yet thoroughly majestic influence, of this most beautiful composite of this living "Truth" that came from "beyond the veil," through Jane Roberts.

I have a friend who is a successful businessman in Southern California who is coming to Colorado soon to travel with me to Ramtha's School of Enlightenment--this 'down-to-earth' and utterly practical businessman named his son "Seth," after this spirit entity that we so loved studying and learning from during our college/surfing days that now seem so long gone in this rapidly changing world.

I so hope you will consider treating yourself to these works, and you'd also love the work of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle (author of the Sherlock Holmes series) who worked with Harry Houdini, at first mediumships greatest detractor, until Houdini witnessed Grace Cook and helped Conan Doyle further develop the British Royal Psychical Research Inst.--See the work of this famous British medium, Grace Cook, and her spirit guide, "White Eagle."

There are others who are also of the highest integrity, like Kevin Ryerson, who was featured in Shirley MacClaine's movie, "Out On a Limb," and she also worked with Ramtha--during the 80's.

I could go on, and on, and....about psychics and/or mediums like Arthur Ford, Alice Bailey, Eileen Garrett, Edgar Cayce---and still, Seth is one of "truly great teachers" from any dimension--a timeless and moving mystery that even the hardest core skeptics have a very difficult time dismissing--so beautiful are "the fruits of this soul's team efforts!"

Thinking of you and Scott and hope you continue to enjoy some cartoons with those little ones!! Dave

Hi kristin: David has already given such a beautiful reply to your question.I agree with him that when you read Seth you at some level know it is the pure Truth. I believe every word of the Seth material.The book stays on my bed.I am always referring to it.Take care dear. How old are your children?They are lucky to have such parents as you and Scott.God bless. Geeta.

Hi David, I was wondering if you have read Rosemary Altea and her spirit guide The Gray Eagle. She is from U.K.She has written "The rose and the Eagle" and other books.Also David are you familiar with the zone diet? I go on it sometimes very strictly and I feel great.I have been reading Mahatma Gandhiji's autobiography. He experimented with many diets.One of them was to live on fruits and nuts. I am trying it right now. God bless.Geeta.

Hi Geeta: Right now, I am 'fasting' a bit--except I am cheating and still drinking coffee, and using OJ for diabetes--and that autobiography must be fabulous--Sai Baba's "daily inspirational" e-mail just referenced Ghandi in some very exemplary ways!!

Hard to get a much "higher" recommendation than that!

I was once familiar with Rosemary's work, but found myself focused on other mediums instead--for reasons that in no way relfect on her abilities. Those British mediums are one of the positive testamounts to "white people!" and I say that as a typical "white guy!"

I love the British sense of humor, like New Zealanders and Aussie's have--and how open "they" are to this kind of stuff--I've recently read some of John Edward's books and it is astonishing how popular he is in Australia (10,000+- showed up for his 'group readings!).

For some reason, I am getting "Gray Eagle" mixed up with the one known as "Silver Birch"; have you heard of that one!!!

I think the White Eagle publishing trust is amazing--as it is still in existence after all this time!!!

Supposedly both Arthur Ford and Edgar Cayce were both heavy drinkers in their lives--which I find to be all the more amazing in light of the usually diminishing effect alchohol has on the process.

It is really fun to have meet up with someone who has such a passion for this "stuff," especially in view of your postition as a Pediatrician--very much adds legitmacy to the lives of legitimate spiritualist mediums and psychics--since it is an arena so full of charlatans and egotism wrecking havoc on an otherwise pristine way to dispel the "fear of death." Dave

Hi David,Thanks. I have read John Edwards too. Did you know that he spoke with Elvis on the other side? (actually had a conversation!).I had read about Arthur Ford and his drinking problem, I was not aware of Edgar Cayce's problem. Thanks David. God bless you.Geeta.

Hi Geeta! Hi David!
David, I'd lost track of this topic for awhile, but wanted to thank you for taking the time to write about Seth.
And Geeta, my children are 8 and 10 but both with November birthdays. And I have 2 beautiful stepchildren (18 and 20 years) whose lives I have been blessed to be apart of since they were 3 and 5yrs old. You should see them all together. The young ones worship the older ones and the older ones adore the younger ones. We are all very blessed.

Love, Kristin

Hi Kristin,don't you love motherhood? I just wait for my 28,26 and 18 year olds to come home. I start planning meals weeks ahead of time.I make sure all their rooms are cleaned, they have fresh sheets, I bake ahead of time just so I can spend time with them. I try to make everybody's favorite dishes. They make me feel like I am a gourmet chef.I love my babies!.I know You love yours. God bless. thanks.

Yes, Geeta, I love being a mom. :) Thanks for sharing how much love you have for your "little ones." I always tell mine that they will always be my babies... you know, that's a mom thing to say. But then, you know, someday I'll be an old lady - hopefully - and my children will be the ones holding me perhaps. And in a way, I'll be the young one and they will be so much wiser than I. Life is so very interesting. I hope my children find a peace that will never leave them. I hope they always know how much I love and appreciate them. They are the ones that first taught me to love. God bless children. God bless you too, Geeta.
Love, Kristin

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