Deepak,

Thanks for pointing out the following at an apt time.

"The British didn't panic about national security; they didn't start a global war. Instead, they settled in and basically accepted a nasty fact of life"

Just few minutes back I blogged about the irresponsible editorial by Times of India. The editorial is more of a Fox News kind. It was totally irresponsible and inflammatory in a sense. By calling this terrorist attack as an act of war, these guys are trying to throw spanner on the peace process which has advanced a lot (what else could you expect from a Hindutva supporting news paper). I am happy that people like you are taking a sensible approach on this issue.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1280277.cms

Thank-you Deepak, well said and utterly true.
I just finished writing last night on another of your blogs about a young christian woman singing her heart out to her Lord Jesus Christ in my lovely mostly muslim suburb Lakemba.
She gets attacked yes, but the denial is deep for both the muslims here and the christian woman.
Denial is the perfect word Deepak.
Once I had to lead one muslim man away from her because she was very afraid of him, something he'd continually been doing to her? As I walked up the street with him, I could feel his rage towards me and life? He had a legitimate hate which he expressed to me about Australia in no uncertain terms and blasted that he was going to become the prime minister of Australia. To me as I write now, I cannnot put him in the same position as his fellow muslims in his homeland, the ones who have a reason to be so hateful, because of that symbiotic relationship you talk of D. But some how to me he has made his life better here in Australia but still has blindly jumped on the band-wagon of his religion-countries plight and still shared in this un-necessary hate of himself and us.

I resonated with the very last sentance Deepak posted.

North

But Deepak most of us know all of this. The politicians certainly know it. And we've known this for a long, long time. If only this, if only that. So many ifs in your post. It would be more interesting to hear your take on why these ifs are not actual fact.

Deepak,

You have a tight grasp on the reality. If only this insight and wisdom was coming from or at least understood by the leadership.

Those that benefit from the current system of things maintain the Illusions that give rise to it.

What you speak destroys Illusion. For it is words that create Illusion and words that destroy Illusion. The right words spoken and the spell is broken.

Those in the US should remember that small pox infected blankets were used as a biological weapon against the Indians native to this land to take it over.

It is the separation, the labels, the beliefs that divide.

If we would not focus on the labels, and what is defined with words, but the ~essence~ there could be no Ego manifested Illusion.

So I suppose.

But social injustice will be with us for a long long time. It will always be a struggle and no matter how many times you point out the absurdities, it will only change in its own good time and in its own way (and speaking out against past sins as you are is part of that, of course). The trick here is not to rationalize the terrorists' activities in order to point out social injustices (which you are doing, whether you intended this or not), but to point out to the terrorists (who of course will listen because they are not at all insane)that there are more legitamate ways to react to these injustices. Why not go to the source of the immediate problem (not the vast soup of influencing factors that will only change at at snail's pace, which you have done) and rail against the egotisical choices of those who would be "social critics" through the use of violence? These people have a choice about how they react to such injustices, don't they? Wouldn't that be the sensible thing, since we are dealing with sane sensible people who just happen to make arguments about social ills by blowing up innocent people?

I just heard about a book out that is supposed to be very good. It is called "The Terrorist Hunter" written by Anonomous, a jewish women who went undercover.....

The worst injustice a terrorist does is when he recruits a child and brainwashs him. He does not live anymore and he never will see the world through a child's eye !! And thats sad !!

Deepak,
I respect that you are reaching deep down into this matter to offer some real insight into why these problems keep festering. Unfortunately it is true as you said that some will fuel hatred and conflict for their own benefit. Most people do not want to acknowledge that. So I am glad that you are talking about it.
Every point you have made is very insightful and the world would benefit greatly if people acted on these insights. Part of me, though, still can't help but wonder if some of this terrorism is not destruction purely for the sake of destruction. Only because I have thought about it, and that it sometimes how it appears to me. But every point you made is a good one. Very thought-provoking post.

I dont when we will all realise that religion is a time bomb and nationalism is a time bomb?

There is deep need for atleast a few of us to venture and create a new society by first discarding these divisions within ourselves.

Dear Deepak,
And in knowing the reason Why - It becomes the 'opportunity' for each one of us, individually and then in families and then communities, and then nations. The opportunity to see with clear awareness, that love and peace is healthy for ourselves and our planet.

Of course, this is so simple to See.
I believe in your post, you have pin-pointed why this is not happening.

The work of the Alliance, and of groups throughout the world, can discuss solutions to make the clear awareness breakthrough, with tangible actions. In politics, in education, and in religion.

It is an ambitious work, but very worthy.
Blessings to all.
May each of us further the work of peace in our own lives, and to reach hands to each other.
With love,
~~ K

http://septembereleventh.org/documents/drg_cspan.mp3

Here's a theologian's take on our "war on terrorism." It's very real and very scary and must be heard. Please listen and be appalled.
It is an appeal to relilgious people to look at the contrast between traditional religious values and the values of the powers achieving global domination, the American Empire, at any cost.

If the franchised ignore the reality disenfranchised, the disenfranchised will make their reality known. And if there reality is harsh then so will be the communication of their reality. The solution is to make sure you franchise everyone.

For some it is easy to detach and separate, which is embracing an Illusion, but it seems that eventually what they seek to avoid comes to be standing and staring them in the face and becomes a reality.

~Richard Thomas

"ignore the reality of the disenfranchised"

Dear Deepak,

Thanks for the note. I was struck by your words: "Resolution only requires sensible compromise".

We know that at the personal level people are by and large decent, be they Indian, Pakistani or Kashmiri. When they subscribe to a virulent political and/or religious dictates and give up thinking for themselves and invariably act like savages.

To date, it has always been governments working to put together a peace plan. Behind the scenes, each government has its own agenda, questionable draftsmen, and a narrow base to satisfy. The compromise that is drawn up is motivated by these unspoken agendas and short-term thinking.

There are enough talented and broad-minded Indians and Pakistanis who are sick of the war, the posturing, and have nothing to do with their governments and its short term compulsions. I hope that a well loved soul with a mass-market appeal (like you :-)?) will drive and popularize a private citizen initiative of respected Pakistani and Indian citizenry that hammers together a compromise statement. In due course it can be presented to both governments from each side.

Prior to the Iraq war, we had nobel prize winners all over the US with no ostensible political affiliation put together a document condemning the intended aggression. The same happened for the economic policies pursued by Bush and co. These went no where but were important steps and will be viewed with increasing importance in generations to come.

I was hoping that something along those lines, with both Indian and Pakistan luminaries (faculty, sportspersons, actors, musicians, artists, doctors, authors) as co-signatories can be put together. Unlike the US experience, it will go a long way right from its inception, because the media will catch on and give it a healthy life of its own. Thank you.

Deepak, I agree with your analysis about the folowing:
"Condemnation of violence is hypocrisy whenever politicians can't get elected unless they set Hindu against Muslim."

Till about the 1970s, people interacted with each other as people, not based on whether you were a Hindu or a Muslim. Today, if you don't consider a person's religion first and interact accordingly, the 'secularists' will brand you communal. This I firmly believe is the result of the political hypocrisy and level of degeneration that the political process has undergone over the years. The truly unfortunate part of it is that even reasonable and intelligent people have been influenced - it is evident in this very forum.

"The saddest secret about terrorism is that it can be solved politically...They are being inhumane and cruel to the people of Kashmir as surely as terrorists are."

I doubt whether it is a sad secret - it is an established fact. I would not put the blame on politicians alone. The political process cannot survive without backing from the people. I have often tried to discuss Kashmir frankly with others and am most often surprised about how little they actually know. Its almost as if they wish to cover their ignorance under a patriotic blanket.

Sometimes I get the feeling that people are happy to let the political stalemate continue. They are afraid that maybe they do not have a strong enough case or are not as right as they presume or think. Whereas, if they take the trouble to be better informed, they would at least have the confidence to form an opinion and force the political establishment to move forward meaningfully.

Krish,

Strangely enough I consider the Times of India (not my favourite by any stretch of the imagination) misses out on no opportunity to take attack Hindutva. Amazing to me that you consider it a tool of Hindutva - how perceptions differ.

In fact I think I was as surprised at the tone of its editorial as you were yet our reasons are different. Perhaps we are both wrong and being judgemental!

Hopefully people will start getting tired of this hate soon because it is getting really played out. A new idea needs to emerge, everything changes.

Khwaja Moinuddin Hasan Chasti was a sufi saint who (I don't know right now exactly what time in history now since his story was searchable on google 3 months ago but not now for some reason) during a time of Hindu's and Muslims fighting having been appointed by Prophet Mohammed was told to go to Ahjmer SP? in India to teach the people love and peace. He performed many miracles healing the sick even raising the dead to show the power of Allah, the power was love and peace.

My point, these people (terrorists) use religion better known as politics as a means to justify the purpose of their actions but they are way off obviously as we have been reminded several times by the right people.

And any establishment that supports that kind of disrespect and hate is soon going down. Rappers that rap in ways that disrespect women (an issue that Colin Powell raised today in an interview on TV) and also promoting violence and hate are being replaced by rappers who are conscious just as one example. People who speak these truths are all over the place and they will be heard and seen soon enough in a massive way since that is a desperate need at this time.

Well said doug.

What deepak writes (ane he writes with sincerity) is a denial of many facts, including the human nature. The history of using violence to further religion is millenia old. You can not wish it away. Idealism is nothing but day dreaming. Many of the terrorists (all of them) believe that you can live peacefully if u agree to the superiority of their religious (that includes politial and social) beliefs and live as a second class citizen. Are U prepared to do that? Injustice is but an excuse. By your logic, communism was 100 times better than people who think there are 70 nubile babes waiting for them in haven.

You say we should have solved Kashmir politically. Do you honestly believe that would have prevented problems from Pakistan? A state founded on the basis of separation cannot survive till it invents an enemy to unite against. In this case, it's Muslim brotherhood against all "unbelievers". Do you honestly think giving Kashmir to Pakistan will stop anything? It will continue relentlessly as it has always done.

The ultimate and omnipresent aim is to spread Islam. And that's been the case for at least a thousand years in India's experience. I'm not sure if it's ordained by the Qur'an or a distortion of the religion, but that's irrelevant. My sole concern is "what happens in reality whenever Islam is involved".

Also, I keep hearing people saying only love can win over hatred. I believe there's a difference between loving and caring for people who are unarmed and innocent but harbor some fear and hate, and people who're out to kill you to bend you to their beliefs. In the first case, love and care will win over any hate people might harbour. In the second however, they've crossed the threshold beyond the reach of love, and we have to defeat them by force.

In the World War for instance, militarism acting for Good rescued millions of Jews, defeated Hitler and his ideology, brought Japan to its knees, and heralded an era of peace and prosperity for Europe and East Asia by applying the balm of love and care after the militaries were gone to dispel any hatred the vanquished populations might have harboured. If the Allies had said we mustn't increase the violence in the world, or fasted for peace, that wouldn't quite have worked anything on Hitler's conscience.

Take the Dalai Lama or Aung San Suu Kyi's example. Both wasting their lives hanging on to the principle of nonviolence. But have they achieved anything at all for their peoples for all these wasted decades?

And yet, we hear people parrot that nonviolence is the only way. Again I ask you, would it have solved the Nazi problem?

You have to choose the weapon based on the problem. There's a balance that must be struck. For example, love will just not get through to supremacists of the religious ideology kind.

The fact that 1 billion Muslims can't restrain the "minority" of misguided people among them is scary and disturbs me a lot. So if they won't reform their own, what are we supposed to do but defend ourselves.

As for Hindu fundamentalists, they thrived only because of this constant Islamic problem. Otherwise, why would any Indian want to destroy or support the destruction of the secular, tolerant and beautiful nature of our ancient culture. But tolerance mustn't mean we go the way of the Buddhists of Afghanistan.

Can we all work out some daily common time to send Reiki or positive energy to all the terrorists out there so that they can work on creative ways to achieve their ends? I also include the politicians of the world in the term 'terrorists': anyone who has the power to hold us all to ransom.

Hello Deepak and Everyone,

Deepak, everything you say is true, to a point. The difference between the IRA terrorist and the terrorist of today is that the IRA dropped off a package that contained a bomb, they were not the bomb itself as were the hijackers of the planes that crashed into the World Trade Center. The difference with the IRA terrorists is that you have a good chance of coming to some kind of working agreement, hopefully. The terrorist of today, the one that becomes the bomb itself is saying "there is nothing you can do against us, because we are willing to self detonate....we will get what we want, because what we want is all there is, there is nothing and no one but us.
Take a look at Hamas, there is really a chance for an agreement of some kind of peace, but Hamas says.. it does not care, they want what they want, which is all of Israel and they will fight untill they get it. If that is not crazy, I do not know what is.

Why would they choose to continue fighting if they did not believe they could get what they want, which is a world that does not include the State of Israel?

Imagine...a world that did not include a State of Israel...I cannot...but the terrorists can and that is crazy.

The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. Instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it.
- Martin Luther King

There are only two powers in the world
- the spirit and the sword;
and in the long run the sword will always be conquered by the spirit.

- Napoleon Bonaparte

We call that, hypocrisy, Napoleon, but the thought is nice, though,

How to defeat terrorism?
Don't be terrorized.
Don't let fear rule your life.
Even if you are scared.
- Salman Rushdie,

Love, compassion,

"We must learn to live together as brothers or perish together, as fools."

I think, that too is a quote from Martin Luther King?

Today is All Saints Day(Honouring the Dead) across North America; known as Hallowe'en. In honouring all those whom have passed before us; and those passing now; always, memories are keeping you near, like a tranquil flame.

HaPpY HaLlOwE'eN EvErYoNe CeLeBrAtInG.

Made for: IntentBlog

http://xs51.xs.to/pics/05426/Halloween.a.ds.jpg

As ghosts and goblins roam; and pumpkins lit, at home; remember our dearly departed; for they serve now as beacons; to guide us home.

North

Ruth,

Some of you thoughts were echoing my own. In regards to the Israel, Palistine situation. Hamas has doctrine that states that all of their demands are contingent upon the complete destruction of Israel. Howw does Israel reason with that? How do they handle this politically? It seems to me that a sharing of the land has been on the table for years only to be shelved after a bombing by Hamas or some other fringe group.

For that matter what exactly do Muslim terrorists want from the world? Deepak, you say that terrorists have specific logical, political demands, but I see none of those. There are vague mutterings about the destruction of Israel, Control of Kashmir or death to the United States or death to Hindus, but how does one deal with this at a peaceful level? And what is logical or reasonable about those demands?

The IRA had a specific demand: they wanted Irish rule and the freedom from paying taxes that supported a government and church that was not their own. Basically they wanted the Brit's out. That's logical, that's a demand that can be dealt with and negotiated.

I completely agree with your view of stupidly rich, Arab nations (my words not yours) and how they should be handling things internally.

The tough part is dealing with terrorism in the interim and convincing these nations to clean their own backyards.

In my opinion not buying a single drop of oil from these rich Arab nations until they get their house in order would change things NOW. Outlawing foreign weapons sales and distribution for American weapons manufacturers would really make a dent; holding weapons manufacturers legally responsible for the death that they sell would also make them think twice about selling weapons. Hitting those people that profit from war in the pocket book (non-violently) would create real change. These things would all take political will and the richer nations of the world would have to be prepared to curtail their standard of living (a tough sell), in order for these things to work.

There is a lot of power being wielded by governments and corporations. It is all smoke and mirrors though. The real propoganda that is being sold by governments, corporations and media is that the vast majority of us are powerless in the face of all of this. The truth is: we have all the power, but we relinquish it to the government, corporations, stars and the media. Change happens with each of us using our God-given power to shape the world that we want.

Peace,
Scott.

Violence can only be concealed by a lie, and the lie can only be maintained by violence.

~Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

I'm fed up to the ears with old men dreaming up wars for young men to die in.

~George McGovern

War is fear cloaked in courage.

~General William Westmoreland

The dangerous patriot...drifts into chauvinism and exhibits blind enthusiasm for military actions.

~Colonel James A. Donovan, Marine Corps

Killing a man in defense of an idea is not defending an idea; it is killing a man.

~Jean -Luc Godard

If you want to make peace with your enemy, you have to work with your enemy. Then he becomes your partner.

~Nelson Mandela

It takes more courage to get out of a war than it does to get into one.

~Mark Couturier

I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent.

~Mahatma Gandhi

War: first, one hopes to win...in the end, one is surprised that everyone has lost.

~Karl Kraus

Scott,
I agree change happens with each of us. Within and without.
On the physical level where we spend our money (and where we put our attention) is extrememly important. Corporations, countries and the powerful react quickly when the "bottom line" is threatened. And it doesn't have to be an attack. All that needs to happen is a shift in awareness that causes the majority to shift their energy/resourses/attention in the direction of the greater good. All that needs to happen is the realization that where I put my attention MATTERS. To me. To my family. To my community. To my country. To my world. This realization need not and CANNOT be founded upon guilt (or any other form of violence) in order to create deep, lasting change. This realization needs to be based upon the awareness of our interconnectedness to each other and all of life and a love that transcends all forms of violence, including violence to ourselves.

Deepak,
I think it's important to see the ways in which we are being manipulated and relinqishing our power. Once we can see, then we can change.
thanks for your post.
Love, Kristin

Deepak says "The saddest secret about terrorism is that it can be solved politically"

Just like poverty can be solved very easily, just like environment problems, global healthcare issues can be solved, easily. We have to want to, that's all.

"The solutions are simple...just not easy."

-Ronald Reagan-

Dear Deepak and All,

Terrorists are people who are spiritually wounded and who act out of the pain of that wounding. The world is getting smaller and smaller every day as evidenced by the Internet and this blog through which we share our thoughts. I am here. You are there. And terrorism is an everywhere challenge that our global family is facing. The remedy will take a family effort of global proportions.

I believe that we must work with what we've got. There must be moneyed (i.e. powerful) organizations in our global family who have systems in place that can begin to turn the tide here. The dynamics causing or contributing to the terrorist trend seem to be related to human needs and neglect. When we address these needs, then we will soon see changes for the better.

Love, Bo

Dara, probably we are wrong. But my opinion is based on the observation of Times of India and Indian Express opinions in the last 15 years (especially during the right wing NDA govt. rule). Again it is just my observation. Unlike Fox News, they do highlight the events which show Hindutva forces in a bad light. But their editorials were little biased (in my opinion).

I agree with Ruth.
To add my own thoughts, speaking of terrorism worldwide, the solutions are not so straightforward. The "agenda" of the terrorist's is not so clearcut. Could someone please answer my question: " If the terrorist truly has an agenda, what exactly is the agenda that he is hoping to accomplish when he is, in fact, detonating himself?" Am I naive to ask this question? What political change, social changes is he seeking when he is, in fact, detonating himself? Am I the only one who feels that there is something which defies reason here--the contradiction is that if person A desires something on Earth (change, improvement, etc.) person A does not detonate himself.

Dulcie

You stated that question well. That was where I was trying to head with it. I too would be interested in anyone chiming in on this.

Peace,
Scott.

Scott,

I am glad that you can see where I am coming from. I guess the reason why i ask this question is that I truly feel that there is some dynamic to this issue which is just consistently not being addressed. But anyway, my question in above post pretty much says it all.

Scott, have you noticed that you're talking about "convincing these nations to clean their own backyard"...
Isn't it always about cleaning your own first?

Dulcie, the impulse to sacrify your limited self for a higher good is actually very spiritual. The problem is that we have a limited understanding of what that higher good is, and what is to be sacrified. Not our physical bodies, but our sense of separation (from whoever we call terrorists/enemies) has to be sacrified if we are to have change.

Aurora,

I do see what you are saying. My problem lies in trying to understand exactly what the agenda is at the point when things have gotten to the stage they are with the terrorists. It is not that I don't want to understand--I am just not certain that political change is what the terrorists actually want at this point. I have noticed that it seems (to me anyway) that they seem to be making a statement with their self-detonation. Would political change and the like really satisfy them? Is that what they are seeking? I have the feeling that the issues go deeper than that.
Perhaps I am wrong--but it is very hard to overlook that scores of people are detonating themselves. It seems to be an odd way to go about seeking political change especially when their "agenda" is not always made clear--in fact, it seldom is made clear or explicit.

Dulcie, to me, it is clear that the people who are detonating themselves are being emotionally manipulated by people who have an agenda. So there are two "agendas" here.

First, there is the "agenda" of the person with the bomb, who feels powerless and at the end of their wits, trying to attract attention to the suffering.

Second, there is an "agenda" of the people in power behind the screens, in the way Deepak explained. They do have an agenda, and it's about manipulating their population to distract the public attention from their real goals- money and power.

Populations are manipulated through the old trick..."the others are the enemy, they are responsible for your misery"...

Aurora,

Of course it is always most valuable to focus on one's own growth and deepening connection to Spirit.

Having said that: Why respond to my post? Shouldn't you be focusing on cleaning your own backyard rather than asking me to clean mine? Why feed the hungry when we should just be feeding ourselves? Why heal the sick when we should be just healing ourselves? Why speak at all when we should be turning inward?

I was not being flippant. Only pointing out that we exist on many different levels at the same time. On one level we are unified and it is our responsibility to deepen our realization of that. On another level we are manifest in this existence as individiuals that are male and female; different nationalities and colors; different thoughts, customs, religions and politics. It is worthwhile to point out (as Deepak did) that there are deep inequaties within the world and the more financially powerful an individual or group is, the greater their responsibility is.

Some people read the I Ching, the Upanishads and the Bible...I read Spiderman: "With great power comes great responsibility..."

I believe that we are all given certain gifts by our Creator and when a group or individual is increasing the suffering in the world by not using that, it is fair to say so.

OF course that is only my perspective.

Peace,
Scott.

That's just IT; no one knows what it's all about, really? It's such a mix of things.

That's why it's probably not far-off; when we all have to realize; that to unite as a race; we must first de-cloak ourselve's of religion/politics/greed; and get to the intentions, needing attention.

That of course, is to save our planet, and all living creatures on it; including ourselve's.

To achieve this mandate; de-cloak from religion and politics and form a united "nation" that would govern the world; divying UP, it's resources; that woudld take care of poverty, greed and corruption and religious war!! NEW trade agreements's; so wealthy nations do not take advantage of the poorer nations.Again, that would solve some poverty plights.

Why fight for a country "back" that was taken one thousand years ago? IT will never happen; time has proven this fact.

English will never give up Africa, or any country they conqured; no more than we whites in north america; will give the native indians back their country.

Why fight; over spilled milk; year after year? It's futile, and a waste of natural and human resources.

North

I hear what you're saying.

However, I have always been fearful of one government...who runs it? What do you do with it if it is tyranical? If everything is divided equally what reason do people have to grow food, to build anything? Maybe some day that idea will work, but human nature is such that communism (which is what you are talking about) has never worked very well and has repressed people's ability to grow. Ultimately power corrupts those at the top and then...well, read 'Animal Farm' by George Orwell.

Peace,
Scott.

DOUG:

"The worst injustice a terrorist does is when he recruits a child and brainwashs him."

~LIBU

"Unfortunately it is true as you said that some will fuel hatred and conflict for their own benefit."

~DULCIE

INDIGUY:

I am so tempted to go tit for tat with you. Fortunately my warring days are over on this site. So to be most unscientific about your entry all I can say is you are dead wrong about non violence. Also the jury is still out on WWII. Give it another 100 years to see if Europe is such a beautiful peaceful place.

RUTH:

The thing about Israel and Palestine (and here I am being very simple and naive) is that if the Arab world, the Saudi's, Kuwaitis or even just the Palestinian leadership, which does have those secret bank accounts, were to come forward and say to the average poor ass Palestinian that they could drop there arms against Israel because everyone was going to get a leg up on the good life I think you'd hear the average Palestinian sighing thank Allah.

It isn't every Palestinian that wants to annihilate Israel. And the real "terrorist", the one that recruits young poor disenfranchised boys and girls could not keep up the reign of terror without all those young people who's lives are already over. And as Deepak says the terror is perpetuated by those in power that gain from the terror.

SCOTT M.:

As much as I respect you and your postings I have to say here that you have pointed out the trap that makes us culpable. When will we stop labeling with broad strokes? Hamas is not Palestine.

People actually populate Palestine. And they are as varied as we are.

I know it wasn't intentional but as a half black half white American that has seen the hate from both sides I must say that every time we try to make a point and confuse Hamas, an organization, with Palestine, a people, we are fueling the fires of hate.

I know some Palestinians that found asylum in Switzerland and they're not intellectuals. In fact Switzerland harbors refugees from many of the recent world conflicts. Tamil, Bosnian, Croat, Serb etc.. What I have noticed is that as soon as these people make it to Switzerland and get to live a decent life, they couldn't care who Hamas or Osama or any of them are. People want to live with dignity. They want to buy food for their children.

DULCIE:

I am having a hard time trying to expres what I am "feeling".

Definitions are a huge problem in communication. For example eveytime some one says the terrorists that blow themselves up I have a problem. I see the terrorists as the chicken shit guys who would never blow themselves up. they work for powers that are so chicken shit that they won't even leave a trail between themselves and the terrorist, at least not an easy trail.

The kids blowing themselves up are not the true diehard terrorists. Most of them are freakin' children.

´What I have noticed is that as soon as these people make it to Switzerland and get to live a decent life, they couldn't care who Hamas or Osama or any of them are. People want to live with dignity. They want to buy food for their children.´

.

DULCIE:

What the "real" terrorists are saying is, "get out". Stop raping us. Stop fueling your covert wars against the third and second worlds. Take care of your own and don't feed us your democracy.

Someone said they had heard that the "new" suicide bomber was intellegent, educated etc. Let' stop confusing issues. The guys that flew the planes into the WTC were educated. The guys that blew up the London underground could not have flown those planes into the WTC. The suicide bombers in Iraq? No sir.

MAREK:

My man. Shouldn't you be in bed?

Just some quotes only about Palestine: Israeli journalist Amira Hass recently put it pointedly: "There's nothing wrong with wanting to be optimistic," she said. "The problem arises when optimism acts as an anesthetic, and when the optimists make do with talk and take no interest in bulldozers." She's talking about the bulldozers that are still building the separation wall through Palestinian territories, that are still demolishing the homes of innocent Palestinians, that are still clearing Palestinian land in order to build more Israeli settlements and more roads that only Israelis may drive on.

It's estimated that approximately 90% of the Palestinians' fresh water wells will end up on Israel's side of the wall when it's all completed. And they say this is not a land grab.

Israel continues to kill Palestinians, despite the optimism and the recent period of so-called "quiet." 139 Palestinians, about half of them children, have been killed by Israelis in the three months since Yasir Arafat died, while 16 Israelis have been killed in the same period. This is a kill ratio of 8 to 1. And yet we barely hear about this lopsided death toll in the media, amidst all the optimism.

From: http://www.counterpunch.org/christison02192005.html

Read more at Counterpunch.com

Hi Scott; hmm, leaders would run the country; but, the global unity would be housed under one reformed: Operating System

I'm not saying one country run the world; but, more of a governing institution; where rep's from each nation adhere to. Global law; global sharing of resource's where one nation cannot strip it's neibours; simply b/c of power and wealth, corruption.

Why is it so unfeasable? WE would still have the right to bear witness to our own chosen beliefs; however; religion must obviously catch up with the times; and surrender ancient dictatorship; and adhere to the softer side of religion; and that is of critical equality and respect.

How can we form an idea; when it's shot down in mid-air? With closed thinking; the impossible can never be achieved, let alone envisioned.

North

Scott; I don't think, nor debate from a communist perspective,(because that was YOUR interpretation thereof) nor tone. I believe; my form of idea was more to the left, strongly suggesting equality and equal rights and portion.

I never suggested, forgetting about one's beliefs; only the labels that segregate(de-cloak) us a race; with obvious, non-conforming peace-initiatives.

North

Laurence,
Thanks for responding to my post. I tend to agree with what you have said. The thing is that I think the terrorists do not want any part of the West--probably not our diplomacy either,etc. That's kind of the point I am trying to make. Take the Taliban--they had a medieval lifestyle going on there--that is what they wanted there. It seems their dislike of the West may not be appeased by political maneuvers.
Also, saying "they don't want our democracy" is true. But, it seems the majority of Iraqis do. So when people start talking about what "the terrorists don't want" are we not allowing them to be the bullies? Not even talking about if we should have gone to Iraq or not--but now that the majority want democracy are we to cave to the terrorists?
The way they have gone about making their points is completely and totally unacceptable. I understand they will probably not give up in Iraq for a very long time.
And isn't it true that if countries start politically "negotiating" with terrorists that that will just fuel them further to demand more?
One cannot overlook the point that there is no "reasoning" with the "unreasonable" and by that I mean irrational. I am not saying that they themselves are insane--their tactics are insane (insane in the way that the word is commonly defined). That is notable--Deepak points out that they are "not insane" but I am saying their tactics are insane.

Dulcie, you said: "The thing is that I think the terrorists do not want any part of the West"

I don't think that is true. They *think* they do not want any part of the west. But they love getting their hands on all the latest electronic gadgets, arms and munition, vehicles and other western conveniences to implement their agenda of hate. Even though bin Laden scaled back on visible western accoutrements, dressed himself in white, and pretended to live a minimalist life, he was well stocked on western pharmaceuticals and didn't hesitate to consider dialysis. They can't live without all the benefits of the west for even one day.

These terrorists also make devious mission statements when their real aims are much less grandiose. It only helps magnify their standing among the severly disgruntled, and globalizes their audience. Osama's original gripe was neither Israel nor the West. He was most irked by the Wahabbi scum propped up the US in Saudi Arabia. His right hand man is the Egyptian doctor, Al Zawahiri. AZ's biggest bug bear was American support for the illegitimate regime of Mubarak in Egypt. In Iraq, Al Zarqawi's hatred stems from the sham democracy being plastered by the US, and the Iraqi puppets foistered on the country. In Pakistan, jihad cannot be stamped out because the US is in bed with General Musharraf who can never muster popular support. The Taliban slowly recover in Afghanistan because Unocal Karzai's standing and ascension is highly dubious.

Most of these places were steadily heading down the tube even without American involvement. I will leave it unsaid as to why. But when America needlessly entered the picture and meddled (the sole motivation being money of course!) a large percentage heaped their woes to blame the Americans for everything. They end up targeting us, annointing us as their principle problem in life. At this point, the breeding ground for scum like bin Laden, Zawahiri and al Zarqawi is fertile. These roaches will quickly cite global causes for what kicked off as a local turf war.

"But they love getting their hands on all the latest electronic gadgets, arms and munition, vehicles and other western conveniences to implement their agenda of hate"

I don't think electronic gadgets and vehicles are "western" products. In fact, you can track back the origins to Asia. Also Japanese are more adaptable to electronic gadgets than Westerners. In fact, many of the gadgets used in that region are not even available in the western world.

It would be illuminating for me to know what gadgets and vehicles can be tracked back to Asia in origin. The fact that Japanese, and more recently Chinese, take ideas and improve them greatly is moot. Is the point that these terrorists use gizmos created squarely from advances in the west even debatable? Or are they discriminating and utilize those which are not really western?

Dear Scott, I don't mean that turning the attention inward, personally and nationally, means that we can't participate in the world anymore. What I mean is this- the admirable masculine drive that calls for action should come from wisdom and not look for the solutions "out there". This is as true for the national level as for the personal.

So, when you talk about "Muslim terrorists", when you talk about "the stupidly rich Arab nations", and conclude that the solution is to kick their ass, or in your words, "non violently hit them in their pocket books" or "not buy a drop of their oil".... you are using that beautiful masculine impulse for action to chase an illusion. You are forgetting that in the eyes of the Muslim terrorists, you are an American terrorist, and that in the eyes of most people on this planet, America is stupidly rich, and that if you really want to use your god given power, you are going to be truly sucessful if you turn your attention inward, towards your own backyard, and see the way in which you as a nation and individual are cocreating the situation.

I don't mean that the people you're talking about don't have to clean their own backyards, but you can't clean theirs. You can clean yours, and change your perception of "them", so that "they" can change their perception of you.

Maybe we really mean the same thing? :)

Dulcie,

Your question regarding the aim of the suicide bomber and what he hopes to achieve got me thinking. I'm afraid I have to repeat what I mentioned elsewhere and what Laurence said in his comments here. The suicide bomber is the pawn who is being manipulated and brainwashed. He is carrying out orders given by those who will never expose themselves nor take centresatge except to boast about their 'inteligent' planning abilities. That bomber is someone who has been pumped up to believe he is serving a greater cause, his reward is not in this life but in the next. Obviously he is also someone who strongly believes that there is an afterlife and he sees visions of that afterlife far better than his/her present existance.

Seen in this light, I agree with a study made on terrorist psyhology which concluded that the average terrorist (if there is an average) is someone who is generally pretty low on self esteem. This is his chance to hog his two minutes or seconds of fame within his group.

To all those who believe that terrorism can be brought under control through concerted and united global action (I'm one of them too) I have a question that has been baffling me for a long time. How can we expect to make any progress when even today there is no agreement on how to define terrorism or a terrorist act? I know in our hearts we all know what it is but can't quite explain it in terms accpetable to all. How often do we hear 'one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter?" Now if we can't even agree on what terrorism is, how can we expect to fight it unitedly? At a more specific level, there is no agreement on whether the war in Iraq is part of the global war on terror Now please bear with me :) and don't jump off with a "Oh no! not that again!" Believe me it isn't. It's just an example.

Perhaps I think the conflict arises because we are trying to explain it through motives and reasons behind an attack and not concentrating on the very act itself. Personally I feel it is any act which results in inflicting physical or mental harm and instilling terror on innocent people. Some may consider it too simple. I, however, feel that any act inflicted on innocents, no matter what the motive, is an act of terror. I agree this is not comprehensive but I think there is more hope of reaching a consensus this way.

AK,

I am not talking about what terrorists use. My remark was to mean that these gadgets have their origins elsewhere too (not just in western world). Also I wouldn't agree with your statement that Japanese "take ideas and improve them greatly". Nope.

I mentioned this in another post and decided to also mention it here as I feel I need to "talk" to my blog friends....

I just got the book, "Terrorist Hunter" by Anonomous, the story of an Iraqi Jewish woman who went undercover to infiltrate the Radical Islamic Groups operating in America...

I am only on page 6 and in shock. She is telling a story of being undercover in Chicago watching a dance recital of Arab American children doing their new routine, "How I became a Martyr". She goes on to talk about how the youth are acting out skits on how to kill....

This could be ANY color ANY religion, ANY group, but the most important thing to me is that this is where hatred is starting.....this is what is being taught to children. Children are so innocent and look to adults to believe in, so very much. So no wonder some of there terrorists are who they are...look what the cycle is. I am so sad as I read these words yet I can not put this non-fiction book down.

This book confirms for me that we as people (not just parents CAN make a difference in the hatred and violence that at times seems so out of control. One at a time we can teach a child not to judge by color or race, by haves or have nots, to find peace in all that they do and do unto others as you would want for yourself....We can do this. One day at at time, One child at at time.

~Joanie

Thank you, Deepak.
That is a wonderful explanation and guidance. At 52 yrs. old I am very ignorant of the ways of peace.
Namaste
W

MAREK:
My man. Shouldn't you be in bed?

haha,
yeah, I´m gonna sue my babsitter..

Great post, Laurence, says it all!
nothin to add to that,

Love, Passion,
Ps. I do believe that the timezone with switzerland isn´t that much different..;)

Aurora,

"Kicking their ass" is an interesting term. But I meant it no differently than when Gandhi motivated India to stop buying British textiles or imported salt. He was asking Indians to suffer for the greater good, so that eventually England would find it financially impossible to maintain their empire in India. Not financially supporting a country is a way to motivate change.

Martin Luther King, during the bus strikes (since we've been discussing Rosa Parks)organized African Americans to not use the buses. He used financial means to make change...he hit them in the pocketbook. There was suffering involved for the people he wanted to help, but ultimately he succeeded.

Had King or Gandhi chosen to use violence, it would have created nothing but more violence and more repressive laws.

When I talk about "stupidly rich", I mean individuals in Arab nations that are SUPER RICH, while the majority of the people in the country are starving. Of course The U.S. has a large gap between the richest and poorest (it does), but that is relative. The poor in our country have cable television. That's not say that there is not suffering in this country and that there is not want...there is. But when we discuss poor here and compare them to say, Mexico, we are not discussing the same thing. Mexico has families with NOTHING...literally nothing. Saudi Arabia has oil tycoons that with fleets of ships while a vast majority of people can barely survive.

Right now, there is no reason for the Saudi's to help and every reason for them not to according to Deepak. I just suggest that we can make changes nonviolently. God knows that violence has done nothing to improve conditions in the middle east.

Peace,
Scott.

Laurence,

I agree completely with you that Hamas is not Palestine nor is Afghanistan the Taliban. Your point that when people live a better life (without want and without fear) that things change is an excellent and true one.

However it is a fact that Hamas continually makes it impossible for negotiation to go forward in the creation of a true Palestinian state. The ONLY answer to this must come from the Palestinians...they must police their own fringe groups in order for them to get the freedom and property rights that are the birthright of all humans. Just like it was up to the United States to abolish slavery within itself and later to abolish Jim Crow laws.

I agree with you completely. There is a trap there and it is the trap that is easy to slip into.

Peace,
Scott.

Thank you for your clear and lucid explanation, Deepak. The only question remaining, for me at least, is what more can the average person do - in addition to living one's life peacefully - that can trigger a shift in the minds of those who aren't? Are we as outnumbered as we sometimes feel?
Much love, Donna

North,

What you are discussing is a Republican form of government like the U.S. and Canada (actually this started in Rome with its' City-states). Essentially, in a Republic there is a federal government that has a (used to have) a limited power and the States govern themselves for most things.

The problem rears its ugly head when the Federal government decides it needs to do more and more and eventually destroys the autonomy of the individual State (like it has in Canada and the U.S.).

The nature of government is to grow. The bigger that it gets the more disconnected it is to the needs of its people and eventually it becomes tyranical. That's why I have always believe in small, limited government.

A representitive republic works great as long as the citizenry stays involved and is continuously keeping the government from growing...and unfortunately, that means also not growing government in areas that you think it should grow.

Anyway...just my rambling thoughts.

Love,
Scott.

Very well understood, highlighted and articulated.

How to get this thought moving Deepak?

A.K.

I think you are right in that the scum that recruit these guys to become terrorists are definitely looking for a scapegoat (U.S.) to fuel their insanity. I will compare someone like Bin Laden to a cult leader. To me he is talking gibberish b/c the main thing is he is looking for followers to follow his "teachings" (which when they consist of telling people to blow themselves up do amount to insanity). Many cult leaders have preached similar things. Think of those cult leaders who had their followers put on sneakers and commit suicide b/c they were taught that Haley's commit would take them to a wonderful afterlife. Cult leaders also preach a hatred for outside world.

Dara: You're totally right. There needs to be a clear recognition that the psychic makeup of the "leaders" of these terrorists--I will call them psychopaths is different than the guys being recruited. The guys being recruited are very troubled people who are committing suicide and taking others out with them. I honestly do believe the average suicide bomber has been cut off from everything through brainwashing. Bin Laden and guys like him are the lowest of the low. The U.S. has done things wrong--no doubt. But I think these guys have formed cults of terror--more of a psychological phenomenon. Why are there so many people willing to join? Because of the US--no--that's simplistic. Because of poverty, unemployment--no. I don't buy it. It is a psychological phenomenon--that's what needs to be looked at.

Thanks Scott; for me, trying to "learn" politics is like trying to learn a new language or career.

I really have not much interest in learning it's many facets; I see the results before me; and it's enough to persuade me; to remain ever, neutral.

However, I do strongly believe in the world having to be governed by other than the current political systems; as they are all too corrupt and do not serve the majority of it's people.

This does not imply however, that I believe in an Arian society either; how can I; I live on a government disability; and I am just one of the statistics that support corrupt government.

Scott; if you thought I truly sing communistic intent; then you are believing I believe myself unworthy of living; a communist would have me dead, starving on the street.

I was just so surprised how you tried to tie this shoe without merit.

yes, I am in Canada; and get medical care; most prescriptions covered; and all is as, it should be in every country.

However, we don't get much to live on Scott; and the stress of living penny to penny; trying to make a dollar out of fifteen cents; pretty much involves one politicly; whether willingly or not.

I've spent years, advocating for the disabled/aged/workers compensation injured workers/children/women/lone parents(in particular.) As some know; I got death threats, was harassed; and my car destroyed. Hello! Was a huge wake-up call, when one had to inform her son's school; to watch out for socio-pathics; stalking my son.

I know first hand; the effects of social and community discrimination; one does not have to be black to be descriminated against. When it is by your own people and government; sure makes one question all moral responsiblility a government should endorse; which it is "sworn" to endorse and mandate; yet, falls continuously, shamelessly short; of caring for it's poorer populations.

I believe in wealth-equality for ALL human beings.

I believe all beings have the inheritable rights, to certain degree's of financial freedom; gained of course, by what each one of us; has been awarded part of this earth; and it's abundant resources. Why do only the strong and wealthy reap the rewards of the earth; when it belongs to each one of us?

It is governments; which control the resource's and here is the problem. Resources belong to All of us; not just some of us.

I believe; the government ought to run "house" not much lesser in responsibility, nor moral obligation; as a "family unit" which was it's intent and mandate; to be the voice/hands of the people; ensuring NO ONE, went hungry, cold or impoverished.

Maybe, one day; we will give witness to a turning of events occurring at present; towards a vision of love and hope for all.

Good Wednesday All, and Happy Diwali, Mallika and all, celebrating.

North

Dear North,

The reason that I am calling your political slant communist/socialist is because you believe that: "I believe in wealth-equality for ALL human beings". That is basically the definition of a socialist government. LOTS of people believe in that style of government and that is fine...the comment I made was not about you personally, it was just historically socialism and communism has not worked.

If you believe that we all "share the worlds wealth", it means that you believe that it is the governments job to steal my labor and give to someone else, whether they have done anything to contribute to the building of that or not.

Let's say farmer -A- and farmer -B- have equal plots of land. Farmer -A- learns all that he can about farming, tills his field, works his every day. He wants to be sure that it produces so that his family has food for the winter and grain to trade for other things that they need to live. Hopefully he will produce extra and be able to give it to those that have fallen on harder times.

Farmer -B- chooses to do nothing with his field. He hopes that the right grain grows, but he doesn't bother learning how to improve his crop, he doesn't till and he doesn't irrigate his fields.

The fall comes and farmer -A- harvests the fruits of his labors. Farmber -B- discovers he has nothing. He looks over at his neigbor and sees all the wheat, barely and corn that Farmer -A- is harvesting. "That's not fair," he thinks, "he has so much and I have nothing." He calls his local government official. The official believes just like you do that all of the resources should be shared equally. So, the official gets his gun drives to Farmer -A- and and points it at him.

"If you don't give half of your crop to Farmer -B- I am going to take your freedom away." So Farmer -A- gives half his crop to Farmer -B-.

Farmer -A- goes into his house. He's tired from his long year of labor and knows that he has just enough food for the winter. He looks at Farmer -B- and sees that Farmer -B- has the same amount of grain as he does, but Farmer -B- is NOT so tired...in fact he seems cheerful and relaxed. Why shouldn't he? He just got enough food for the winter and did no labor.

"That sucks!" Says Farmer -A-. He looks at his calloused hands, feels the pain in his back...then he looks across to his other neighbor, Farmer -C- and all of the grain that he has produced.

"Next year," he says to himself, "I know what I'm going to do."

That is socialism in a nutshell. It's tyranical and because of human nature, it causes everyone to be equally poor.

We take care of people in our societies that have fallen on hard times, because we see (if we see clearly) that 'but for the grace of God go I'. Any of us can come upon hard times and a civilized society takes care of those that are struggling and have fallen on hard times, as you have. But your pain has nothing to do with everyone else. They don't owe you...they help because they care.

If a man walks up to me on the street and demands my money at the end of a gun, we call that stealing. If the government does it, we call it social justice.

Much love to you.
Scott.

Scott,

Red Herrings, interminable Tragedo-Commons fallacies, and the idea that everybody will be equally poor instead of collectively rich, make the ideation of a brotherhood of humankind just that, an untried idea, a true socialistic political system has never before been tried, because we have never before been united under a one government world. . .

Peace

Who would you put in charge of that one world government Craig? How would you change it if it became corrupt? If you couldn't change it, where would you go?

Government is best kept small and manageable. It's job should be to promote freedom and peace, not ensure that everyone is the 'same'.

There is a great short story by Kurt Vonnegut called "Harrison Bergeron". It's a good read and demonstrates what happens when we try to make everyone equal.

Peace,
Scott.

AS far as I understand socialism is more than a robbery by government. It is not just robbing one's wealth and passing it to a lazy man.

It is about ending the exploitation, where workers are paid in paltry amounts and the exploiters take the major share. It might have lost its relevance now but it definitely had a historical function to perform in the evolution of social systems. To say that socialism is nothing but a robbery by government is like showing contempt towards the dreams of millions of people, who found deliverance, even if it lasted for a short period of time.

If socialism can be defined in terms of robbery by government, then capitalism is robbery by corporate warlords.

Tragicly Scott; it is the lazy farmer, whom is lost in his soul; and needs help to re-step onto a productive path.

How could anyone turn their back on a helpless being? No one seems to give merit to what got a person there in the first place; only that they are there.

IT is attitudes like starve them; poverty-endorse meagher monthly incomes; and make them feel like abominabal beings; that keep them where they are.

People living in poverty; make fruitful "pawns" for political party elections. That's all. WE are their biggest, thriving, most easily manipulated marketing "scheme" they have.

WE are a government's cash cow, in marketing terms.

Most here; have not one inkling of what it is like; to be monstrasized, because one's back was broken, or neck, or limbs, or emotions, or organs; live with chronic disease; dying; nor what it's like to be bankrupt, lose home, car, possessions.

Most here; have probably never hungered for more than a day, two? Try two years!

Once, they were normal; just like me and you; and then, one day; an accident happens. A domino-effect, much like the butterfly-effect occurs; and out of their control.

They become prime and ripe targets, for community corruption, robbed by business owners, never having justice, nor anyone lamenting for their plight.

I would challenge "anyone" to walk in a lost soul's shoes, before condemning them.

I don't think this kind of thinking, logic, nor plan is productively loving or God-likeness?

I know these things first-sight; b/c I live in it; and I've been robbed by business's and reported it; and of course, it was their word over mine; I am a disabled, and I have no word I guess?

So, the impoverished continue to be victimized by a cold society; filled with contempt for them.

IT is the man/woman; whom would feed/care/help the farmer, which would be the better man/woman.

In my own opinion anyway. I could tell true stories, that would require box's of kleenex to read through; on how a person's life can be turned upside down; never to right again; in just a blink of a drunk driver's eye; or a fall, a bacteria; body disease from being raised in extreme poverty(like me.)

When the spirit is not fed love; it appears, it weakens until it is no more. How can we continue to allow it to happen?

North

Najeeb; so very true. I know people, and I have myself; worked for such paultry pay. It is in small part, why we have a large disabled population growing.

The jobs they do(labour-men/women) often involve repiticious movements, heavy lifting, standing, etc. By the time most labourers are in their early 30's; their body is starting to wear.

First, it's the back; then the knee's; then the heart(too much stress) and then the spirit.

The medical society is aware of the decline of an injured person; and sadly; though here in Canada; a small income is given them; it's barely enough to survive. All hopes dashed; to save for our children's college.

My son starts in Sept. and me on disability; his Dad, bad-back like most men at 50(mechanic) missing work, to hospital stays for it.

WE have NO hope; of supporting our son's dreams, hopes, nor aspiritations. IT is these things which slowly, eat away at a person's spirit.

Not being able to provide their children with a good start. WE feel as failures; even though the accident was not our fault. The results, remain the same though; as far as society judging us; condemning us; and ridiculing us.

I really, truly wish; some people knew what it was like, to go through; not to experience the pain, but to experience the social carelessness that label us unworthy in society's eyes and hearts.

WE feel, so unloved, unwanted and rejected.

Who's spirit, being affected such as these ways; would not crumble with time?

North

Good posts North! I answered, or at least tryed to, Scott's question in "Looking for Blood. . ."

You make some excellent points, and:

we are together my brother!!!

hello Craig; I am a sister, not a brother(wink.)

Thank you; so many just judge, and don't see the whole picture; it's one of our biggest social challenges as a disabled.

My disabilities are organs/spine/joints; and I look ok on the outside; even pretty. But, sadly; soon as I say I am on disability; I am labeled with mental problems, b/c I am not missing a limb, nor am I 400 pounds, or 80; nor am I visibly showing a disability; other than slight limp, and a slightly bending back.

Not enough to satisfy the curious; so not only do I feel condemned; I am made to feel inadequate and mentally challenged. (big frown.)

I guess, this is why I don't like labels very much; nor do I like the attitude of the strong; not wanting to support the weak.

I hope, people who think like this; never have to find out the hard way; the lessons of true compassion. It is not learned in a book; it is learned throug experience.

North

North,

I can hear that you are in pain...but for the life of me I have NO idea what your post has to do with mine...I'm sorry, but I don't.

What I wrote had nothing to do with you or with anything other than a metaphorical description of why Socialism has never worked well.

Craig says that it hasn't worked because it hasn't been done a larger enough scale(????????????) If Socialism doesn't work in a country WHY would it work as a world government??? Sorry I just don't see. When has anything worked better by making it much larger and even more bureaucratic? But hey...if Craig thinks we should all live as gray shirted cogs in the World Government wheel, then ...maybe it's a good idea.

North,
I have known you (at least electronically) for years now. I know that you have struggled and have had pain and suffering in your life. I don't know how to help you with it, but consider...just consider that maybe the rest of the world is not the cause of your pain. Maybe "out there" is the wrong place to look for help.

We are the creators of our reality. The world that we see "out there" is the world that we expect to see. If we decide that people hate us and wish us harm, then they hate us and wish us harm. If we see a world filled with light and opportunity, the world is filled with light and opportunity.

My family is from Canada and I spent much of my Childhood there and have visited many times as an adult. It is one of the most beautiful countries in the world. It has good prosperity, clean air, lakes and bountiful farm lands. It is filled with wonderful, loving people. There is free healthcare and the opportunity for work and companionship. There must be many things in your life that you can be thankful for. Consider focusing on that and you will create more abundance in your life. Your thoughts create...let them create some joy and beauty for a change. Don't you deserve it?

Peace,
Scott.

Scott; it was just the representation I suppose, in not wanting to help the farmer; to me; I am the farmer in society's eyes. Without knowing "why" I don't plow my own field; I am still damned for not doing it.

Yes, you have followed my path for a long time now; and you and Kristin have been very sweet over the years; and compassionate in understanding.

I don't just sit and brew disharmony; and as you can see on my msn site; I host lots of creative designs to show I am not inwardly feeling too helpless; hopeless, but not helpless.

I have to speak out against labels and injustice's towards the poor and impoverished though Scott; because we are mis-represented in society as a label and not a person.

I know I come off strongly suggesting I am in misery; well, in too many ways I am. But, I am President-Elect of a large, world re-knowned group Scott; and remain active in my community.

I merely talk about issue's which affect our disabled and aged society. They seem to have no palpable support.

yes, I am in Canada; and thank God for that; otherwise I'd be on skid row by now; it's just that; did I deserve skid row; because of an uncontrollable accident, or birth into extreme poverty?

Though I accept, gaining peace; I question God's methodical approach to life-lessoning.

God be with you and yours always Scott; I always look forward to your Christmas card(smile.)

I know you are a loving and kind person; but, I think you fail to see what I am trying to say/do in my personal disclosure. I only attempt to make aware, what it is like for us out here, when society turns a cold shoulder to our presence.

But, here is my site where my designs are in albums; and Mieke(from here) has posted an album of her fantastic labrynith based on Deepak's 7 Spiritual Laws.

http://groups.msn.com/SpiritsoftheFourWinds

North

North,

I am so very sorry, me truly wish there was something I could do. You are in my prayers.

Scott,

Stalin was not a socialist; he was a mass-murderer. Trotsky had a vision, but no vision, no matter how glorious, will work when it is founded upon violence. This is why Chinese "socialism" never had a chance either, being founded through violence, and there was never even an attempt at equally distributing goods, there was only entrenchment of riches into the hands of military generals and self-perceived demi-gods.

When Jesus said, "if you want to be perfect sell all of your possessions and give to the poor," he did not simultaneously stick an AK47 in your face and say, “bow down slave,” (at least, not the historical Jesus I have studied), and neither was he hoarding copious quantities of cash (I don’t think).

A one-world nation is a necessity for any civilization to ever have a chance for true peace, elsewise there WILL be war, at least, that has been the case thus far in humankind's existence.

Peace and love to both of you North and Scott

Dear North, could not resist replying to you through this channel. Take good care of yourself, let your arm rest. You are at this moment the most important person in your life. Please give that arm some rest :) Mieke

Craig,

Stalin WAS a Socialist felt his form of government was so important that he needed to make others conform to it...hence he was a murderer. Any government or leader or individual for that matter can become a murderer if he becomes attached to his belief system.

Jesus DID say "If you want to be perfect sell all your possessions and give them to the poor". However, it is the voluntary relinquishing of ones property that makes it sacrifice. Not the taking of it by some World government. The beauty of Capitalism Craig, is that you can make as much wealth as you have wish, but on the flip side you can give all of your money to the poor. Socialism leaves no choice and therefor the relinquishing of property is not sacrifice and not spiritual...it is just theft by the government.

Craig, there is nothing and no one stopping you from shutting down your computer, selling all your books and clothes and wearing a simple piece of cloth. Capitalism offers you the choice...socialism jams it down your throat.

Peace,
Scott.

North,

Your artwork is gorgeous!

No...you're not farmer -B-. Farmer -B- never asked for help from his neighbor...he asked help from the guy with the gun which is all the government is: a guy with a really big gun.

Peace,
Scott.

Scott,

I practice what I preach, or at least come as materially close as possible. The few clothes I do "possess" are, for all intents and purposes, pieces of sackcloth. "My" material possessions probably total less than three thousand dollars, and, actually, I could very well be homeless within the next two months.

All is as it should be; no worries. I apologize for my socialist rants, and I have never killed one person in my life, over political philosophy, or, over anything for that matter.

I apologize if I have gotten a little heavy-handed with my rhetoric sorry brother.

Peace my friend

SCOTT: thanks friend; re: my artwork. It's my way of sharing with the global universe for indeed, the blessing I DO have. I share it with you and all; as I pass through this lifetime with all, on the same lengths of time and change and perpetual hope for a better tomorrow for our kids.

Let us all, leave them a legacy of clean water, air and land.

CRAIG: praying is free, and abundant; when offered with good intent; manifests positive change. I'll pray for you.

MIEKE: Ooh, you sneaky; where'd you come from? Ok, will rest my arm; ya caught me! I'll rest come Monday; b/c Sat. is Bazar day for my ladies group at last. Big event; I'm the Hostess, and we been organizing it for months; we hope for a good turn-out! Then, I can breathe; I go for my glaucoma tests and HRT scan on the 14th. All is flowing smoothly. Have a memorious weekend Mieke.

North

Hi North - I especially like the picture of Heart-Wave. Thanks for posting it. And Mieke's labrynith. What beautiful creations! :)
~~ K

Deepak, I do envision within myself, no war at all. Can this possibility go beyond what I see, when I open my eyes?

Can peace and war, co-exist. Seems too.

When it comes to politics, terrorism, and ideologies - the way of peace isn't what I see. And yet, as you mention in the last paragraph, we 'know' the reason why terrorists hate.

'And in knowing the reason Why - It becomes the 'opportunity' for each one of us, individually and then in families and then communities, and then nations. The opportunity to see with clear awareness, that love and peace is healthy for ourselves and our planet.'

May the Alliance be one avenue for this opportunity to become manifest. May the sharing of ideas, and solutions, be conveyed with respect and excitement at the possibilities!

Blessings,
~~ K

Hi K.....thanks for taking a peek at the albums; they are somewhat of my "inner eye vision perceptions."

I love making them; and the visions don't always come to me easy. Sometimes, I go through a vision-block and it's frustrating; b/c it gives me such pleasure to do.

Humble thanks K; for the compliments; and my reward for doing them; is in someone finding a "favorite" that resonates with them.

North

Hello K.., thanks for the compliment :) I am very grateful to North for letting me share my pictures next to hers. She makes wonderful meaningful art.
Hi North, have a great Bazar day and indeed a good turn-out. Tell you about my memorious weekend next week.
Mieke