Vijay,

Thanks for posting the link to the pictures and story about Mohammed Akram. We all relate to stories. Relating in this way to a family on the other side of the world who is going through such a transition makes it easier to hold them, and others like them, in my thoughts and prayers.

Thanks again.

Love, Bo

"won't do anything to jeopardise their safety".

"Come one, young man," she says. "Grow up. Don't make life any more difficult than it already is."

a magic formula

if only everybody could, would should..?

Love, (Com..Passion.

Indian govt. should allow him. Not only that, Govt. of India should rev up the PR machine and make him tell his story to Kashmiri people. We need to make them realize that those people who believed the promise from the other side had lost almost everything in life. They should make them realize that they did the right thing by staying on the Indian side. Once they realize that, terrorism in Kashmir will fizzle out (it has already started though). We need reformed persons to help our govt. in this cause.

Vijay, you are right. Indian military needs to build trust and reach out to people in Kashmir. They have already progressed on this front when the quake struct. We need to do more. The only way to win over terrorism is through the peaceful way and addressing the real issues. Once we block the lifeline of terrorists, terrorism will fizzle out eventually.

Typo in there. It should be struck and not struct.

now the situation is over,we indian believe in peace thats why we are suffering.

there are many human beings struggling with their lives. they are young and jobless. what should they do? should they cross the border and get training with militants? Dont go for innocent faces... We Indians are very emotional. that's why they do not care about us... Peace never come with power. India should take hard steps towards these militias otherwise they will destroy us. They wont wait to see our innocent faces.

If you are powerfull the world will follow you. We indians never attacked any country in our long long history. but at least we have to save our own country. a Militant is a militant. There is no mercy for them.

There is truth in what Vijay has said and there is also truth in what Pankaj has said. I do not know what made BBC UK do a story specifically on Mohd. Akram when there are many jobless Kashmiris like him. I am sure the Indian govt. has many programs to rehabilitate such people. He only has to go there & meet representatives of the govt. or NGOs stationed in the Indian state of Jammu & Kashmir. If I was running the Indian govt. I would rehabilitate him but ONLY AFTER doing a thourough Background check on him.

Dear Vijay,
I'm curious to know if you know Mohd. Akram personally or were just moved by seeing his pictures on the BBC UK website? What purpose would it serve by posting his story on this blog? I'm not sure if any representatives of the Indian govt. in J&K come to this blog. If you truly want to do something for Mohd. Akram you should contact the Indian govt. directly and present his case. You can find all the relevant Indian govt. contact details on this site: www.India.gov.in

Cheers!
Navin

Vijay,

As far as I know, the Govt. has rehabilated quite a few militants who gave up the gun and continues to do so. This has being going on for a few years now. Some have even been taken into the police force, if memory serves me right.

I think there must be an amnesty scheme in place already. This man can come back whenever he likes if he is genuinely interested in settling down and making a fresh start.

krish writes.."The only way to win over terrorism is through the peaceful way and addressing the real issues."

oh really,just tell me what the "real issues" are???

your comment says a thing or two about your IQ,by the way how old are you?

Kris, I think we are echoing the same thing.Piyush, Navin, Dara- just as a FYI, he cannot come back to India since he does not have any papers and did not cross over legally. Even if he crosses he will be detained and his wife and children deported back to Pakistan after serving 10-15 years in jail.

Navin, I did a blog on him to make others understand the gravity of the situation in Kashmir and understand the life of a militant and how it is not easy for them to give it up, because there is not much they can do after that, like the battle hardened jihadis of hindkush from the Soviet era who joined Taliban, because all they did in their life is fight, fight and fight!

There is very little political will to bring a peaceful resolution to Kashmir from both sides because the cost of a mistake will be high politically, so no one wants to budge.

We need a people's movement to bring the change, not just for Mr.Akram but for hundreds of other militants who want to give up militancy. It involves various actions, one of them being a genuine clemency program from India.

I have contacts with different departments at various levels in the government and well aware of the Track II process that I assist,support and endorse. I have been involved with it long before I did this blog and am working on this particular case too. Good point and yes this is not a one off blog. I hope that answers all the queries.

And back in Jammu, Poshkar Nath Raina sits in a mini bus, looking absently in thin air. He is missing his cow. He misses the apple tree in his backyard. for more go to http://www.sanitysucks.blogspot.com/

Dear Vijay,
Nice to hear that you've actually used your contacts to help rehabilitate people like Mohd. Akram. Wish you success in your endeavour.

The Kashmir Issue is more of an ego issue between the govts. of the two nations, Pakistan and India. The people of both countries have a similar social background and are very cordial with each other whenever they interact. The problem is more from the Pakistani side than from India's. According to history, The state of Jammu & Kashmir had willingly (by a Pact with the then Maharaja of Kashmir)become a part of the Democratic nation of India at the time of Indian Independence in the year 1947. But a disgruntled Pakistan illegally occupied a substantial part of Kashmir which is still in its possession and is called POK (Pakistan Occupied Kashmir) (the Pakis call it Azaad Kashmir). Still not satisfied with what they have, the Pakistani govt. has designs upon acquiring the whole of Kashmir!

Everyone knows that India is a secular nation and all religions are treated equally here by law. Pakistan, on the other hand is an Islamic country and does not tolerate people of other religions. Since Kashmir had a majority population of Muslims, Pakistan wanted to claim that piece of land on the basis of that. To this end, the Pakistan ISI (Intelligence) agency has been funding, fuelling and training the terrorists operating in that area. Even the US knows that terrorists camps are operating in the POK via sattellite imagery. But that buffoon Bush does not understand this that the terrorists being trained there will use their venom not just against India but will ultimately create trouble all over the globe. Pakistan is the hotbed of all terrorist activities taking place across the globe and the dictator of Pakistan, General Musharraf, has been able to somehow hoodwink Bush Jr into believing that he is his ally. It goes without saying that Osama Bin Laden could not have survived till date without the active protection of Musharraf.

This is the background of the entire conflict as per my info. While it is all very well to highlight the cause of reformed militants/terrorits. Pls also give a thought for the plight of thousands of displaced Kashmiri Pandits (Minority Hindus) who have been driven out of their own homes in Kashmir by the militant muslims to live a life of refugees elsewhere in India. How come the BBC UK did not do a story on them? It is ironical that the Britishers, who had colonized India (Pakistan was a part of India then)for over 200 years and had plundered all its wealth, were the people who divided the Muslims and Hindus of the erstwhile Unified India in the first place!

Ok. So, now what's the solution? It is pretty much a forgone conclusion that the current LOC (Line of Control) between India and Pakistan along the Kashmiri border would be officially declared an International border. India is willing (not officially yet) for this on the condition that Pakistan will destroy the terrorist training camps inside the portion of Kashmir which it has Occupied and will live in peace like a good boy. But neither of the govts. wants to take the lead on this....least of all, the Pakistani Musharraf regime. So, the intermittent bloodshed will continue. It is believed that the recent triple bomb attacks in New Delhi, the capital of India, were the handiwork of LET (Lashkar-e-Toiba), a Pakistani sponsored terrorist group only.

No Cheers on this issue yet!
Navin

I am all for rehabilitating millitants. But only after we have taken care of all the jobless youth in Kashmir who have chosen NOT to take up millitancy. It is unacceptable to see a former millitant getting preferential treatment over those whose loyalties always rested with their country (India).

Hi Rahul,
I agree with you. Everyone highlights the problems of the Muslim terrorists, no one gives a thought to the displaced Kashmiri Pandits who have been driven out of their homes by these terrorists. I have just posted a msg on this topic, but my msgs are now being screened! I don't know why these intentblog guys are so insecure!

Cheers!
Navin

Sachin,

Real issues are Hindu fundamentalists like you.

Jokes apart, the real issues are the poverty in the region. Reducing the atrocities by army and police (saying that Indian army and police are well behaved will amount to highest level of stupidity), politicians in the region and national politicians.

Being nonfamiliar with this; I can only pray constructively; that men/women will be embraced in this peace-movement. It would be a "good thing" for a new-reformed government, to offer clemency to peace-makers. There comes a time; when clarity; on how such young boys and men; are found in the clutch's of terrorism; is often because they were orphaned; or had families to feed; and there is NO man/woman on this earth; that would not do same; for food and heat.

God Bless, ALL Peace-Makers!!

North

I just received an email containing a link to a site where help is given to those left homeless by the earthquake in Pakistan. Does anyone know about this site?

http://www.mercycorps.org/

Thanks,

Love, Bo

Dear Gaurav,
I absolutely agree with you. I quote you:
"I am all for rehabilitating millitants. But only after we have taken care of all the jobless youth in Kashmir who have chosen NOT to take up millitancy. It is unacceptable to see a former millitant getting preferential treatment over those whose loyalties always rested with their country (India)." Unquote.

Dear Vijay,
Pls keep the point raised by Gaurav in mind. That would be fair.

Cheers!
Navin

I find a few comments confused. Rehabilitating militants has nothing to do with unemployment. Grow up guys. Mr.Sappani, I looked into your blogs and your website and you are doing a great job for your age. We need more young visionaries like you to return to India and lead the charge from the front.

This is my first time to this site and I have confussed reactions. great posts and not so great posts.People who are opposing rehabilation of militants are either ignorant or behaving like extremists, exactly like the militants.

You can not defeat darkness by darkness, only light can destroy darkness , so is the case, where only peace can stop terrorism. Stop behaving like immature kids and listen to what Mr.Chopra, Mr.Goswani,Mr.Sappani and others have to say. Listen to their opinions and try to rational it and look at peace as an option to put an end to terrorism, not counter terror with terror. Pankaj, I looked into your blog. You are hardned more than Bajranj Dal and RSS. Young man, relax and start trying to understand the problem and talk about the solution, not the problem.

Kudos to all those who are propagating peace as THE way towards the Kashmir resolution. I hope the rest of them will join them.
Vijay, good luck with your work and keep it up.

Love
Gany

I quote Gany "People who are opposing rehabilation of militants are either ignorant or behaving like extremists, exactly like the militants.
Stop behaving like immature kids and listen to what Mr.Chopra, Mr.Goswani,Mr.Sappani and others have to say. Listen to their opinions and try to rational it and look at peace as an option to put an end to terrorism, not counter terror with terror." Unquote

Dear Gany,
Are you hallucinating? Did you read all the posts here carefully? I did not find a single post on this thread so far which has opposed the rehabilition of ex-militants. Just like Vijay has highlighted one problem they have highlighted other problems related to the issue. In your overzealousness to show your support for the Owners of this website, aren't you forgetting to listen to what other people have to say besides the three you have named? I would suggest you to start listening to others yourself before patroninzingly asking others to listen to your favorite writers.

Cheers!
Navin

"Reducing the atrocities by army and police (saying that Indian army and police are well behaved will amount to highest level of stupidity"

krish,

in war against terrorism you need to be tough and thats one of the main reason why we succeded in eliminating terrorism form punjab.and by the way local muslims of kashmir have silently supported ethnic cleaning of hindus.

mentality of bleeding heart left liberals like you is the biggest hindrance in fight against terrorism.your ostrich like behaviour again says a thing or two about your IQ

Dear Navin
Thanks for at least mentioning 'Kashmiri Pandits'. This blog does not seem to be triggering off any debate. It is just pure narcissim, if at all, it is anything.

Gany - providing employment is of course an important aspect of rehabilitating millitants especially in the contenxt of the specific case provided in this post. I applaud Vijay's efforts at bringing this issue to notice. However, in my opinion our highest priority has to be taking good care of our own people on our side of Kashmir first. Millitancy can be stopped only when the Kashmiri youth can trust the Indian governement for their welfare. No amount of cross border terrorism can succeed if the local people do not support it.

What message will the government be sending across if former millitants are forgiven for their crimes (crimes often being as severe as murder)? Shouldn't rehabilitation include a prison term (albeit a much reduced one)? Our energies should be focussed on bringing economic growth and prosperity to the state. Several parts of the country are witnessing the so called "IT boom". Lets not leave J&K out of it. Economic prosperity is the path to peace.

Hello Rahul, It is really strange why these people take sides of hardcore Terrorists and turn a blind eye towards the "ethnic cleansing" of Kashmiri Hindus. Gany's message amounts to nothing but narcissism and singing their own praises by the so called "contributors" of this website. You're right that they are not interested in triggering any debate but are interested only in promoting themselves.

I have been asked by Navin to post this message here on his behalf because it was blocked by the admin. Navin' messages are now being filtered because they feel threatened by his sincere and honest comments:-

I quote Gany "People who are opposing rehabilation of militants are either ignorant or behaving like extremists, exactly like the militants.
Stop behaving like immature kids and listen to what Mr.Chopra, Mr.Goswani,Mr.Sappani and others have to say. Listen to their opinions and try to rational it and look at peace as an option to put an end to terrorism, not counter terror with terror." Unquote

Dear Gany,
Are you hallucinating? Did you read all the posts here carefully? I did not find a single post on this thread so far which has opposed the rehabilition of ex-militants. Just like Vijay has highlighted one problem they have highlighted other problems related to the issue. In your overzealousness to show your support for the Owners of this website, aren't you forgetting to listen to what other people have to say besides the three you have named? I would suggest you to start listening to others yourself before patroninzingly asking others to listen to your favorite writers.

Cheers!
Navin

Dear Florence and Navin

Hats off to you and thanks for all your support. Do visit my site www.sanitysucks.blogspot.com if and when you find time. Let good sense prevail upon people and they understand the real problem of Kashmir. Some of the 'pseudo' remarks remind me of a picture which has haunted me since 15 years. It is that of JKLF terrrorist Bitta Karate in newspaper Kashmir Times. He is under arrest but is smiling and there is a bottle of cinthol talcum powder kept on a table behind him. Now Bitta is no Gandhi. He says he is proud to have killed 35 Kashmiri Hindus. And how? Ashok Kumar, killed outside his residence in Srinagar's Habba Kadal area. Bullets pumped in his body and as he lay wreathing in pain, Bitta and his men pissed on him. and after one hour they came back and shot him dead. Are we talking about the rehabilitation of such militants? If yes, then I disown this country. I am not an Indian. I better fight in Chechnya.

and Mr. sappani, you want to see what innocence is (referring to the 7th line from bottom, of your essay)? click on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:WandhamaMassacre2Jan1998.jpg

Just imagine Vijay. A chilly, winter night. You are sleeping along with your family, comprising of your father, mother and a sister. All of a sudden, 5 mosques in your vicinity, start blaring slogans through loud speakers at one go and you can very well see that the entire muslim community has gathered in their neighbourhood mosques. This is what happened in Kashmir on 19th January, 1990. Entire Kashmir and not only in my vicinity. And slogans: savour this - ' asi gacchi panunuy pakistan, batav rostuy batanein saan'. You know what that means? that means ' we want our pakistan without Kashmiri hindu men, but with their women folk'. and you feel like - now they come, rape your women and then kill you. my mother handed over a knife to my sister. she said, if they come, kill yourself. It was the border security force sent by then J&K Governor Jagmohan, who is much abused by so-called secularists and human rights activists for triggering off the migration of kashmiri hindus. And this is not something that I have heard in US or Canada. This is what I have seen, heard and lived. This is the reality of Kashmir. Rehabilitation of that innocent looking man! Go ahead Sir!

Vijay - I agree with Navin and Rahul. We have tried the peace process in Kashmir for over 50 years and it hasn't worked. Both sides have to be interested in the peace process for it to work. Pakistan is not interested in peace. They are interested in Islamization. The sooner Indians come to terms with this fact, the sooner we can hope for a solution. One good way to start would be to get rid of Article 370 (?). Hindus absolutely must be allowed to settle in Kashmir.

Peace does not mean appeasement. India's stance has been one of appeasement all along. Kashmir is draining the exchequer not only because of the constant military threat that it is, but because Kashmir basically survives on dole of all kinds. Your idea of rehabilitation of terrorists fits right into the appeasement scheme. Don't know where you're coming from, but it doesn't seem to be a place of genuine goodwill.

Vijay,

Much admiration for what people like you and so many others are doing towards getting this issue resolved. There are so many little, little bits and pieces to weave together that I for one admire anyone who takes on even just one of them.

My view is that the present talks, CBMs, peace intiatives are all but the first step and that actually is the most difficult one generally. Besides this whole thing is really like the Amarnath pilgrimage where exhausted devotees keep telling themselves 'one more step'. However, when Musharaff says that this problem can be solved during Dr. Manmohan Singh and his own tenures - I have to laugh. If anything could be further from fact, this one says it all. Everyone in the Pakistani military has taken an oath to avenge the humiliation of Bangladesh. This is still being done whenever cadets pass out from their military academies - I simply can't see a man in uniform, specially one who is so reluctant to shed his uniform, actually be the one to head a Pakistani administration which would solve the Kashmiri issue by negotiating with India and make concessions. In fact to quote BK Nehru from his book "Good Guys Come Second" he recounts an instance when JF Kennedy, in 1961, once told a high ranking Pakistani diplomat that according to Kennedy the Pakistanis seemed more interested in keeping the Kashmir issue on the boil rather than actually solve it - I agree with that even today.

Does all this imply that we should do nothing? Certainly not, in fact it is the seeds which are being sown now, by so many people like you, which will be ready for harvest when and if true democracy starts functioning in Pakistan. That is something I will always lend support to.

Krish,
"Reducing the atrocities by army and police (saying that Indian army and police are well behaved will amount to highest level of stupidity), politicians in the region and national politicians."

I put my hand up to being considered stupid by you on this issue. I think you have no idea of just how much the Military and para-Military forces have changed in the last few years in their dealings with civilians. More so after the present Chjief of Army of took over. It is these efforts that need to be encouraged not disparaged, based on some very heart rending stories that the media takes up. Not all are unfounded, many are. No one but no one, except during the quake relief work, considers it news worthy to talk about the empathy and humanitarian efforts that the Indian Army has initiated with its own funds and resources to assist people in the Valley.

Armchair pundits are also a major issue.

I hate to repeat this, but my comments must be taken in positive light. Please don't think I am a hindu fundamentalist. Actually long time back one slap made me what I am today - SECULAR. What happened in Gujarat must be condemned by one and all, but I am in favour of telling history as it happened and not twist and turn facts for personal benefit. Back to the slap incident. After we were forced to leave our homeland, we landed in Jammu. My house in kashmir had 22 rooms. In jammu, we slept on newspaper sheets. One day, I saw a RSS shakha in progress and as a 14 year old boy, I wanted to join it to avenge what had happened to us in Kashmir. Infact that was for the first time I saw a RSS shakha. When I told this to my father - that I wanted to join RSS - he slapped me hard and said, ' concentrate on your studies'.

All involved have valid grievances as it is always the case in any fight. Only the grievances of some are more apparent, more physical while those of the others more hidden, more mental. But this does not make the grievances of one party any the less than those of the other. So understanding this we should spend our energy on finding the solution rather than finding faults.

Harb

Thanks Rahul & all other friends,

It is only fair that true facts should be presented in a forum like this one and both sides of the story must be told. We must remember that half-truths are lies.

I visited your site, Rahul, and I must thank you for introducing me to Blogspot. I just now created my own webpage and my friends here can now view my profile at http://navinsuperstar.blogspot.com/

Cheers!
Navin

PS: My posts are being published with a time gap as they are being screened and some even being blocked. Hope the admin will return to sanity soon.

Sachin,

In the war against terrorism, you need to be tough only with terrorists. Not with ordinary citizens. Being tough was not the only reason for terrorism to fizzle out in Punjab. The main reason is the "recognition" from the govt. side about "needs" of punjab people. Only after terrorists lost support from locals, the govt. could even be tough with terrorists.

Bleeding heart liberals may be the reason for the delay in eradicating terrorism. But fundamentalists (like you) are the reasons for terrorism itself. Terrorists thrive ONLY due to the support of fundamentalists in all religions.

Dara, if you have read the comments properly, I have already acknowledged in my second comment that there is already a progress in building the trust between military and people in the valley. I would say it is alsways better to read the comments without a myopic eye.

Navin,

Those who have an view against your ideas need not be singing the praise of the site organizers. This comment is very immature. You are free to attack people on their views. Attacking the commenters with comments like singing the praise of site organizers sounds immaturish to me. I do go with the views of Deepak, Shekhar and Vijay on social issues like this. However I am also the most vocal critic of Deepak, Amit Goswami etc on spiritual issues. It doesn't mean that I am singing the praise of the site organizers. Just attack on the basis of views. No one here is gaining anything by sucking up to the site organizers.

I observe this in any discussion/debate involving Indians. If you are part of RSS Shaka, then you are a proud nationalist but if you are part of a madarasa, you a bloody terrorist. What a piece of hypocrisy it is. Both are breeding grounds for hatred based on religion. Come on guys, the muslims also think of madarasa the way you think of RSS shaka. Understand that. The problem is not with muslims alone. It is with fundamentalists in all the religion. They apply different standards when it comes to their religion and other religions. May be "spiritual gurus" will have agreat explanation for this but definitely not a justification.

Rahul, it is none of by business but I want to point out an interesting aspect I observed from your discussion.

Like you, there should be another guy on the islamic side. When you wanted to go to RSS Shaka, your dad slapped you and stopped you. When the guy on the Islamic side wanted to go to training ground in POK, his dad couldn't stop him. Now you are grown up to a nice position and could even blog against sanity and claim that it is the slap that forced you towrds Hindu Fundamentalism. But the guy on the islamic side might be dead or in jail or struggling like the terrorist in this post. Don't you see the irony? If I were you, I would think that the slap is the ONLY thing that is responsible for my sane behavior. Anyhow I don't know your personal life. You know it better. Just my 2 cents.

Dear Krish,
Firstly, let me make it clear on the onset that I do not "attack" anybody on this forum. I just give my frank and forthright views and if they are in opposition to anyone else's, then so be it. I've noticed that you are quite hasty in drawing your conclusions in even other threads on this forum.
If you take a moment and go back to read Gany's post again, you will see that HE WAS ACTUALLY singing the praises of some people TOTALLY OUT OF CONTEXT. Here is a copy paste of the exact words of Gany: "People who are opposing rehabilation of militants are either ignorant or behaving like extremists, exactly like the militants.
Stop behaving like immature kids and listen to what Mr.Chopra, Mr.Goswani,Mr.Sappani and others have to say."

Till the point Gany posted his message,(a) NOBODY had said anything opposing rehabilitation of militants. (b)From where did the names of Mr.Chopra and Mr. Goswani (who is he? I genuninely don't know who he is or has he posted any message on this site)come into this post when they have not even posted in this thread!

Now if this is not narcissism and singing praises then what is?
I agree with you when you say "No one here is gaining anything by sucking up to the site organizers." PROVIDED these are genuine people and not working with the owners of this site.

And I quote you again, Krish:"I do go with the views of Deepak, Shekhar and Vijay on social issues like this. However I am also the most vocal critic of Deepak, Amit Goswami etc on spiritual issues" Unquote

So you have already made up your mind that you would support them on social issues and oppose them on spiritual issues as A GENERAL RULE?
I do not follow any pre-conceived notions like you that I will support them on this and oppose them on that. I only respond to the issue at hand.....I will show my agreement if I'm in agreement with them and will show my disagreement with them if I disagree with them on ONLY SPECIFIC ISSUES. My replies are always Issue centric and not person centric. Pls note this for all times.

Cheers!
Navin

Navin, my argument is that he is not wrong in asking people to follow Deepak or Vijay. Probably he is just asking the commenters to listen to what these people have to say. How can it be construed as his overzealousness to show your support for the Owners of this website? Maybe he liked their idea.

Dear Krish,
Let me assure you that I always listen to what others say and maybe all others do the same too. If we have something more to add to what they have said or if we voice a difference of opinion with them, it should not be construed as we are not listening to them. We are.

Let's just forget this topic for now....it is not something worth arguing over. :)

Cheers and goodnight!(It's 37 mins past midnight)
Navin

Folks,

Thanks for your comments. I will try to answer them. First things first, I just wanted to bring it to your attention on the use of the word ‘Pakis’. It’s a racist term used in UK for all south Asians. Brown=Paki. Pakistani’s would be a better word.

I took a look at all comments and I think all are valid points. The purpose of this blog is only to highlight the life of a militant who wants to return to normal life and show one of the opportunities that is there now to use as a CBM in the peace process. This does NOT discount the challenges of Panun Kashmir, hard-core terrorists, Unemployment, human rights programs/challenges with Indian armed forces and other issues related to Kashmir.

I liked Harb’s words “So understanding this we should spend our energy on finding the solution rather than finding faults”. My objective with this blog was to kindle your progressive thoughts on this issue and create a positive discussion towards finding a solution for this problem. I think we are having intellectually stimulating discussions, but with a little emotionally charged firings :). Lets us critic and debate on the comments but let us not get too personal by attacking the commentators, please and thanks. We are among friends and let’s try to use this forum towards personal and global development.

In Peace
VJ
p.s. I did look into your blogs too, Gaurav- good name, I like no.1 and no.5 in your resume screener. I do that. Harb, I looked into your site but need to make some time to read your full site, Kris, I have been there a few times and Rahul, good luck with your book.

First of all my recation to Krish's comment at 9.04. What made you think that I am equating RSS to nationalist pride? I think it is as dangerous as Jamat-e-Islami. you can actually know more about my feelings on this from my post 'kabir, katrin and ketchup dreams' on my blog www.sanitysucks.blogspot.com. Secondly, responding to your comment at 9.11, I wanted to join that RSS Shakha to avenge the death of my kith and kin. What made Bitta Karate join terrorism and kill Neel Kanth Ganju, who was hiding in a rice drum and then force his wife to eat the blood-soaked rice? Poverty, no way. Unemployment, No. Army atrocities? No. then?

And yes, I agree with you Vijay. terms like Paki should be avoided. we are saner elements and the motive behind this blog and the subsequent comments is to generate a debate, but a healthy one. passion is permitted, but hitting below the belt is not. And Vijay thanks for visiting my blog. and many thanks for your wishes on my book. I left my job with Aaj Tak to concentrate on my writing.

Rahul and others,

What do you think the Govt of India needs to do with Militants like this guy. I'm not talking about hard -core terrorists of LeT,JeM or Al-badr but young mis-guided militants mostly the new recruits of LeT and HM.They realise their mistake and want to get back to normal life. How can we use them to sway other militants to give up arms and join the peace process. Any thoughts?

Vijay, thanks for visiting my blog.

I think there can be systematic surrender mechanism for reformed millitants. A prison term will have to be a part of it though because no crime should go unpunished. However, prison time can be used constructively to learn new craft so that these millitants can find suitable employment once they have completed their term. In my opinion, this kind of amnesty scheme can only be provided to those who are already on Indian side of LOC. Otherwise we run the risk of illegal immigration into India. I know it sounds very cold hearted but it makes sure that this whole thing doesn't backfire on us.

I think economic prosperity is the only long term solution to the Kashmir problem. Of course it is a chicken and egg problem where prosperity will not come until millitancy goes away and vice versa. This is the vicious circle that the govt. should concentrate on breaking.

Vijay, to be frank enough, I am slightly sceptical about this rehabilitation process. Because in the past we have experienced how militants who have been rehabilitated have returned to the folds of militancy. I tell this from my own experience as a journalist, who has extensively covered insurgency in J&K. and now the problem is that terrorism in kashmir is no longer indegenous. I mean there still are sympathy pockets, but the control is in hands of hardcore abu musas and abu hijas'. even if you rehabilitate the former militant in question, there are two risks involved: 1, he might join back and 2, he might be killed by his own men for turning his back. it's a catch 22 situation. but having said that, i think i somehow agree with Gaurav. such people have to undergo a prison term because no crime can go unpunished. and within the prison itself, they might be trained so that they could earn their livelihood once they come out of jail. But livelihood was never a problem in kashmir. so it is again to the basics: why did men like him join the pakistani jihadi factory in the first place?

The problem is more complex now. More and more eduacted youth in kashmir are becoming sleeper cells and even under/overground operatives for hardcore militant organisations like LeT. now look at this man, arrested by Delhi Police for the recent blasts in the indian capital. He is a chemistry graduate with a 17-month-old daughter, living in a relatively posh colony. he worked with johnson&johnson and is the mastermind behind these blasts. and Vijay, just look at his face. he looks like a scholar. but relaity bites.

Krish,

Infact it is because I did read both your posts that I addressed that comment to you.

On 11 Nov you said:
"They have already progressed on this front when the quake struct. We need to do more."

On 12 Nov your comment was:
"Reducing the atrocities by army and police (saying that Indian army and police are well behaved will amount to highest level of stupidity),.."

The first comment, to me, seemed to restrict the time frame to the quake relief. The second comment, made later, seemed to give an impression that you felt that other than the quake, that atrocities continue. That is why I said that things have changed in the last two years or so. I hope you see my reasoning. I wonder if it is a case of a 'myopic eye' or a skewed pen?

Krish, though I do enjoy discussing opinions with you, even though we often see many things differently. The major difference between us seems to be as to how we look at the whole problem. To me it is often not as cut and dried as your approach and that is what I endeavour to express.

There seems to be a gap in the way we communicate and this has happened quite often recently - unfortunately. I think it perhaps may work out better if I stop addressing you directly and make general comments. Maybe it won't appear personal then - it certainly isn't.

I second the views of Gaurav and Rahul about how we need to go about this actually on the ground. Ground realities have to be kept in mind while taking any decisions which involve an issue as sensitive as Kashmir.
Gaurav, I don't think you are being cold hearted. You are just being practical and that's the way to deal with this problem.

Cheers!
Navin

Vijay,

Very good question about how to rehabilatate misguided militants. First of all, let me clarify and you may perhaps know more about it, I think there is already some amnesty scheme in vogue as I mentioned earlier. If not, I think it would be a good idea to have one. Of course it should be applicable to local youth, 'the boys', as the Hurriyat leaders refer to them. I also feel that it is only fair that besides laying down arms they should be debriefed exhautively and the information should be given freely. The onus of convincing others that they have indeed turned over a new leaf will have to be on them. This is similar to what has often been offered to other militants in Assam, Naxalites and even common dacoits. The Govt. on its part should make honest efforts to rehabilitate them, not just pay lip service. In short, the whole package must be a win-win situation for both sides if it is to succeed.

On the down side, I think our official machinery is too embroiled in competition over 'turf'. There are simply too many agencies involved and often the result is appointing one committee after another on a whole lot of minor issues which everyone forgets about thereafter. Meanwhile the pot which was merely simmering finally comes to a boil.

That being said, I do understand that there are no quick fix remedies. The role of NGOs and other organisations sometimes adds to the problem. Though I don't doubt their good intentions I feel that these people often see only one side of the problem and are not very receptive or understanding of genuine problems that the administration has to encounter and overcome. For example, while the administration may have to take into account the effect as a whole, like overcoming resistance and assuaging feelings of people who may feel that they are being neglected at the expense of the reformed militant, the other side feels that rehabilatating them is of the utmost priority and will be a comprehensive solution in itself. So we end up with indecisiveness on one hand and stubbornness on the other. Both end up taking a hard stance and pointing fingers at each other.

Very sensible post from Dara.
Guys, thanks for visiting my webpage.
Dear Vijay,
I have now updated my site settings and anyone can post comments, being a member of Bloggers is not required now. I've posted some new stuff and friends here are welcome to visit: http://navinsuperstar.blogspot.com/

Cheers!
Navin

PS: I would encourage everyone here to get their own website. It's free. You can get the links from visiting the link given above.

I think we all talk just about our (Indian) point of view. I have few Pakistani friends and whenever this topic comes up the first question being asked is why doesn’t India allow UN resolution on Kashmir?

I often had difficulties in explaining them. They always argue that the kashmiris should decide their fate. Of course this has Pakistan’s interest of dividing India.

As what happened in Canada- Quebec referendum, why can’t we do the same? Can some one give an explanation?

"If you are part of RSS Shaka, then you are a proud nationalist but if you are part of a madarasa, you a bloody terrorist. What a piece of hypocrisy it is. Both are breeding grounds for hatred based on religion."

the difference is if a guy is from rss shakha he puts nation above your religion but if he is from madarsa then he puts his religion above anything else.

now a days bleeding heart liberals/pseudoseculars are acting as overground face of the underground.

Dear Yogi
What is UN? UN is US. If they cannot oversee a simple case of where the 'oil for food' programme is heading towards, you think they can handle Kashmir? nah! Ok, let India conduct a plebiscite in kashmir. but the question is: does pakistan have the will to do the same in POK? NO. Perhaps Pakistan's stand is best reflected in what Nehru wrote to Sheikh Mohd. Abdullah in a note on August 25, 1952, "The government of Pakistan is like someone riding a bicycle. They feel that the moment they return to normalcy, the bicycle stops and they fall down."
Tell this to your friends.

and sir, what about the fact that to win Chinese support, Pakistan gifted 4853 sq km of the Kashmiri territory in the Shaksgam Valley to China in 1963, thus unsettling the territorial integrity of the State of J&K. Now, to repossess this province is next to impossible. China is illegitimately occupying Aksai Chin area, which is 19 percent of the territory. It will be next to impossible for the UN to make China evacuate the region.

Pakistan by a Constitution Amendment incorporated a part of Pakistan Occupied Kashmir (POK), that is, Northern Areas, in Pakistan, thereby changing the territorial status of J&K and violating the UN Resolutions. Pakistan has changed the demography of POK by resettling large number of Punjabi ex- servicemen and Afghans from NWFP, thereby making plebiscite of erstwhile J&K irrelevant.

Rahul,

I visited your blog site. Your Bio is very impressive.

I am sure there is no single answer to this problem. I am little reluctant to talk about the past for a simple reason is that we come back to square one again. I am also aware that past has some solutions to the future. I want the government to engage more with kashmiris at the bottom level.( Vijay, sorry to hijack your post I will come back to your story). I think we need to hear from kashmiris. I often had seen both with our media and the government very reluctant to show the real Kashmir and the northeastern states. We need to engage more. Education and awareness are required with in India about the problem itself.

Let me come back to the real story of Mohammed Akram. Helping him to rehabilitate alone is not going to help the situation. Just look at our country, we have over 30% unemployment (as far as I know). Do we have the resource to rehabilitate and give meaningful employment to all the youth in Kashmir??.( I am turning into a pessimist I guess!!!!)

But at the end I have to concur with Vijay. This is an important opportunity for the government to send a positive message to all the youth in Kashmir. Government should also come up with some meaningful plans for the youth in that region.

Yogi, it's highly ironic that a country with a military dictatorship as its predominant form of government could even speak of "self-determination". Let Pakistanis learn to determine their own govt first (they haven't managed it in 50 years) before demanding for another state.

In my opinion, people who live or have lived in the Indian State of J&K are the best ones to play a part in the solution to this issue. Sons/daughters of the soil like Rahul are the ones who should take the lead in actively participating in the churning out of a comprehensive & lasting solution to the Kashmir problem.

People like me who only follow the happenings in Kashmir through media reports and have not seen the bloodshed with their own eyes (thank God!) can never really have a true understanding of the actual situation there.

I hope a lasting and amicable settlement is arrived at, at the earliest.

Best wishes,
Navin

Navin, thanks for your remarks. Solution! well seems difficult as long as Pakistan is our neighbour. Kashmir is one issue, which keeps the politicians (read military dictators) alive in Pakistan. Thanks to the knee jerk response of India (remember Vajpayee's aar-paar ki ladai after Parliament attack, allegedly under the influence of bhaang), Pakistan will keep on its ante on Kashmir and the bloodshed will continue. I have had discussions/debates on this with many military veterans; some of them have been part of India's NSAB (National Security Advisory Board). They say that the only way to stop militancy in Kashmir is to create similar situation in areas like Baltistan in Pakistan where fissiparous tendencies are very high. Till Pakistan bends on its knees and asks for mercy. These so-called CBM's like bus yatras and Loc opening won't help. Exmaples: Delhi bomb blasts and yesterday's suicide attack in Srinagar. So India has to first cease to be a 'sissy'. But unfortunately, Indian politicians are so insecure about their hot seats that they care a dam'n and they lack vision as well. For example: is there any vision as to what we really want to achieve in next ten years? Do we want to be Asian super power or world super power or what? God help India when Union Home Minister Shiv Raj Patil is ignorant enough to call naxalites responsible for Jehanabad jail break 'culprits' as if they are pickpockets or eveteasers. And Mr. Natwar Singh? He suffers from a cold war hangover and recently he needed the heat of oil to ward off his 'cold'. Hope you understand what I mean! Manmohan Singh was better off in Planning Commission. He cannot even deliver a speech. God save India!

Ps: a source in the planning commision confirmed to me recently that 642 crore rupees were pumped in earthquake prone areas of kashmir in the first ten days. Now can you imagine where all this money has gone? Should I tell you? It has gone to Mufti's SB account and those of his ministers and then to abu hamzas and abu al jihads. And sorry, I forgot Ghulam Nabi Azad.

I agree, Rahul, that when water level reaches your head, some tough measures are required. India cannot be a "sissy" and remain a mute spectator of its people being mercilessly killed in cowardly terrorist bomb attacks almost every day. If the same number of people were dying everyday in the US, they would have started a war against all and sundry. But human life is cheap in India. And that's unacceptable to me. Sooner than later, some tough measures will have to be taken by the Indian govt., coz they have to protect the terretorial integraty of the nation.

Love,
Navin

PS: I do understand what you want to say about Natwar Singh-Volcker report, Rahul. Corruption in politics and bureaucracy in India is one more issue which has been a bane for our country.

Yogi,
"I think we all talk just about our (Indian) point of view. I have few Pakistani friends and whenever this topic comes up the first question being asked is why doesn’t India allow UN resolution on Kashmir?"

A few years ago I too asked myself this question, why didn't we have a plebiscite? I also felt that India always seemed to be very defensive when explaining its stand to the international community. I did some reading on the subject, a variety of authors - some well known and some not. Unfortunately never got my hand by a Pakistani author on the subject. However, I did better understand India's position and also realised that we have nothing to be defensive about. That is however my opinion. However, it is worthwhile going into the very basics of the mechanics of partition and the immediate aftermath - not through political eyes but from documented facts leaving apart politics. If it should interest you, I will try to briefly go over the salient features based entirely on what I have read. Any factual error or in in my understanding of events is entirely due to my own lack of knowledge or getting the facts wrong. Would greatly appreciate any inputs and corrections from anyone.

With due apologies to Vijay for usurping this space and temporarily diverting attention away from his very important blog.

Yogi, here goes:
As a starting point, before Mountbatten arrived as the last Viceroy to India he had insisted upon and got a stipulated time frame by when India should get independence. Originally this was supposed to have been July 1948. By Feb - Mar 1947 because of communal riots flared predominantly in Bengal , Bihar and other parts as part of Jinnah's 'Direct Action' plan and as Britain was still reeling from the effects of WW II, Mountbatten declared 15 August, 1947 as the last day of British rule in India. This was his 'exit strategy'. To work out the modalities of partition itself, in June 1947, an eminent British lawyer (Queens Counsel) Cyril Radcliffe was sent to India. He knew nothing about the Indial political scene (perhaps a boon - I'm not sure) and was told to get to work pronto!

The basics of the partition scheme were that a) contiguous Muslim dominated areas would form Pakistan, b) the rest other than the Princely states would form India and c) the Princes were given an option to join either of the two or declare themselves independent States. Radcliffe was given a set of maps, the latest census figures and either two or three (memory lapse) Hindu and Muslim judges each. The result was that the Hindu and Muslim judges simply never agreed it was practically left to this poor guy to work out and draw lines on the map. In just five weeks they worked out a scheme by end July 47 which none of the parties concerned were happy with. Anyway Radcliffe submitted his plan and left immediately for home so disgusted that he even refused his fee of 5,000 Pounds Sterling and never discussed the issue ever again in his life.

The problem came up about the Princes and by 15 Aug 1947 most of them joined the country into which their territories fell, with a few noteable exceptions. Those who dithered intially were coerced, complelled, cajoled and threatened and generally fell in line. Kashmir was one of those that continued to dither. Hari Singh the Dogra ruler was in a dilemma, he was a Hindu; the State of Jammu and Kashmir comprises Jammu (predominantly Hindu), the Kashmir Valley (Predominantly Muslim) and Ladakh (predominantly Buddhist). He was wooed by both but he had a genuine problem on hand and asked for more time after August 15th. which both sides accepted.

He was still dithereing, perhaps trying to extract maximum gains for himself till finally in early October, 1947 Pakistani 'tribals' took matters in their own hands and launched attacks into Kashmir and made quick initial inroads. Hari Singh fled to Jammu leaving Srinigar and ranted at Mountbatten, Sardar Patel(Home Minister) and Nehru that they were deserting him. The Indian stand was that he was still an Independent ruler of an independent country he should make up his mind if he wanted India to come to the rescue. If he wanted to join Pakistan (this was Sardar Patel's stand) he was entitled to but then India had nothing to do with it. If he wanted to be independent then India saw no point in rushing to his aid either. India would get into the act only if he acceded to India. Then it would be in India's right to intervene.

In the meanwhile the 'tribals' had almost reached Srinigar when in the third week of Oct Hari Singh sent off the Instrument of Accession to Mountbatten. In the acceptance letter India conceded Hari Singh's request of a provisio that when the situation returned to normal the people of Jammu and Kashmir could decide further conditions. Once done, India rushed troops by air and road and over a prolonged period gradually drove the intruders back. Nehru, some say under Mountbatten's pressure, meanwhile decided to take the matter to the UN as a complaint against Pakistani aggression on Indian soil. Indian troops encountered not tribals but regular Pakistani forces which Pakistan denied, saying that it was a tribal invasion and some Pakistani military officers who were on leave had joined them on their own - we'll let that pass! It was only in May 1948 that Pakistan admitted to the UN it had its regular army in there. Anyway, as a result of UN intervention a cease fire was agreed upon on 31 Dec 1948.

With that as very brief background about how the UN got into the act we move quickly to the UN Resolutions - they can be found on the net at http://www.kashmiri-cc.ca/un/

I think two of them are important:
On 13 May 48, eight months after hostilities commenced, the UN came out with a resolution basically in 3 parts:

Phase 1 provided for a cease fire.

Phase 2 called upon all Pakistani troops, tribals and people not resident in Kashmir to vacate.

Phase 3 provided that after the first 2 phases were concluded ways were to be found to ascertain the views of the people of Jammu & Kashmir as to their future. http://www.kashmiri-cc.ca/un/sc13aug48.ht

Phase 1 of this was implemented on 31 Dec 1948. Phase 2 has still not been acted upon by the Pakistani side. That is why Pak Occuppied Kashmir still exists.
Phase 3 was to follow completion of Phase 1 and 2 and so never happened.

The other resolution http://www.kashmiri-cc.ca/un/sc21apr48.htm expands on the first and lays down modalities of the plebiscite. However the stumbling block of Pakistani withdrawal still remained. If you go through the resolutions you will find that subsequently Pakistan was allowed to maintain a small force and even this was ignored.

Thats it in a nutshell. Now when people talk about India not respecting the UN resolution on plebiscite, I hope you have your own judgement to give you the answer.

In fact India remained committed to the plebiscite for a long time, it was only in 1961 or 1962 when the late MC Chagla represented India at a Security Council meeting and also addressed the General Assembley. He called upon the UN to at least accept the fact that Pakistan was the aggressor. When not even this was accepted India withdrew its offer. To-day even the Secretary General, the US Secretary of State, Colin Powell, and believe it or not Parvez Musharaff has also said that a plebiscite is not the answer.

There is much more to this story but I think let this suffice for the time being. I just want to add what the then Canadian Envoy (memory again!!), to India, in the mid 1950s mentioned in his book 'Envoy to Nehru'; according to him India has a good case but simply failed to present it rationally. Not entirely true really but the reasons behind that are simply too many to go into.

If you have reached here - my gratitude and I think you deserve a medal! :)

I fully agree that the militants should serve time before they are allowed to taste the free life again.

Rahul asked one question: Why did they do? Why did the terrorist forced her to eat the rice soaked with blood of her husband? Is it fundamaentalism? The concrete belief that my ideology is the only right one and all others are false?

Is there any enlightened souls who can answer it?

Dara,( I don’t find your full name)

Thanks for the long note. I managed to read it full. You deserve a medal for writing it and not me. It is very informative.

I am not fully aware of the facts and nor many of us in India. That’s why I am reluctant to talk about the past. Many of the past stories to me is manipulated to make a stand for each side. If you ask a Pakistani he will have similar stuff to talk about on Pakistan’s behalf.

While I was in Dubai (I guess it was in the year 2000) I was traveling in patan’s taxi. That’s the time when Pakistan tested its nuclear bomb. Taxi driver was saying " Deko India bomb test kiya, Advani saab ne kithna bada bada bath kiya. Hamara saath be bomb hay, abi Advani saab tho chuop chap hogaya na." (My hindi is not that good) I just laughed and I was thinking about what a common man knows about the problem and how he reacts to it. All he sees is the news from the media. That’s why I ask media to be more responsible and information should be such that it should not stir the pot.

The thing is that how we look this problem in different eyes and how to find a solution to it. I have a taken a course on "Rational decision making" at the U of T. Solution can be found from the option of " do nothing" to the option of " going for a full out war".

I believe common man has the real solution to the problem if he has been given all the tools that are required. That’s why I ask “bring the Kashmiris to the table”

Yogi Selliah

While I agree with you, Yogi, that we cannot and should not live in the past, it is important to know and understand the past first. Only then will we move forward without producing old wine in new bottles.

Najeeb,
Try as I might and think as much as I can I have failed to come up with an answer to your question. The only answer I could come up with was depravity - and that surely cannot be. We are not dealing with mad men.

While I agree with you, Yogi, that we cannot and should not live in the past, it is important to know and understand the past first. Only then will we move forward without producing old wine in new bottles.

Najeeb,
Try as I might and think as much as I can I have failed to come up with an answer to your question. The only answer I could come up with was depravity - and that surely cannot be. We are not dealing with mad men.

Common my Indian and Pakistani friends why do you people play with the aspirations of the kashmiri people.whether you rehabilitate this young man or not the core issue will remain forever.Leave kashmir to Kashmiris.A good suggestion to Indian and pakistani friends is to stop spending huge amounts of money on defence budgets.Use the same money to build the lives of the poor pakistanis and Indians. If some money is left then you can donate to free Kashmir. we can fix our Dal , Houseboats, Burnt Schools,Lalded Hospital and Childrens Hospital.By the way by doing so Pakistanis and Indians can get rebates when coming to kashmir for touring.My kashmiri pandit brothers do not fit in the Indian society they are meat eaters and majority of the Indian hindus are vegetarians.I met a Pandit friend of mine in Delhi and he told me that he is fed up with the heat and eating dal roti.He wants to come back to kashmir and enjoy the fresh cool air.He wants to have a nice kanti(fried meat),Wazwan,haak,Nadru.Advice to both governments stop making kashmir a religous issue.Kashmir is for kashmiris, Indians and pakistanis welcome but you must pay for the visa.Discount rate of 500 dollars.Other nationalities 1000 dollars.