Dear Deepak,
Thank you for this post, and for asking what this 'strange' phrase means - that Jesus said, which has indeed, baffled and mystified many, myself included :)

'Resist not evil'
... To let all my thoughts and feelings arise and die within myself.

And in clear awarenes, to share from a level of compassion, and understanding, seeing the nature of duality - yet seeking, and residing as often as I remember! - in Wholeness. This will and does involve lots of forgiveness!

And by my Being, find the connected thread of Unity, that 'by-passes' belief systems, opinions, nationalism, slogans and campaigns, and agendas - that to me, are Clearly bi-partisan and inherently selfish.

To not feel the need, to elevate myself at the expense of another.

To offer kind words, for cruel, a touch instead of a slap, a soothing approach instead of cursing and mean-spirited words and actions.

To live among all of this, Creation, Nature and the planets, and the community I am in, the diversity of life on earth
- and resist the temptaion to criticise, put-down, make fun of, sling arrows, shoot a gun, kill another in words or deeds.

Forgive me! If I cannot completely convey my take on this Life Altering, Life embracing phrase.

Love and Blessings to you,
to All
~ Kate

Hi Deepak

Jesus doesn't actually say go and annihilate yourself. But because we're always focused on the potential danger of his way of living, we read his words as a request to self-annihiliate, and resist the teaching (often while giving lip service to the man and his words and life).

We're asked to be as harmless as a dove, as guileless as a child, and to turn the other cheek.

We're also warned that we're going out amongst wolves, and that we should be as wise as a serpent. Since serpents were symbols of evil, this is interesting advice to give.

I think Jesus was a street-wise man as well as a prophet, and was giving street-wise cautions to his followers. He was saying that, when turning the other cheek, you should give yourself a shot at ducking the next blow by making a study of your enemy so you can anticipate his moves. That he was aware of the danger is clear by his warnings. That he thought it was right to live according to his message is clear because he never changed his message. If you live according to his teachings, including his warnings, you may survive long enough to spread the message to others, by word and example. I think this was his intent, short-term. I think his intent, long-term, was to have enough people exposed to and living his message that good is never defeated by evil.

In everyday life, his way is a hard way to live. But if his way of turning the other cheek while being very wise about those who are doing evil is looked at as a practice (in the sense of a walking meditation, or a set of spiritual duties and a mindset), it becomes a challenge. Like walking a tightrope, it's a sure thing that ultimately we'll going fail one day, when we're older, or tired, or our reflexes and judgement are simply not on.

But what a grand thing it is to try to live by not opposing evil with more evil. It makes life honorable, and it feels good, and it helps others live their lives. One can really get smacked in the face, or walk down the road in the streaming rain and winds with no cloak. But it's still the right way to live.

Those who loudly call themselves Christians, without trying to follow Jesus's teachings, do the religion a great disservice. There's always been such people, and I guess there'll always be such.

Cheers, Heather

Dear Deepak,

I will not put much trust into what is written in the Bible, the Quran, the Vedas, etc. I think your argument is clearly an unwitting perpetuance of a questionable issue and circumstance.

The biographical data on JC is so sparse and sketchy, coupled by the fact that the New Teastament was written in Rome between three and four hundred years after his execution, that it is exceedingly difficult for me to lend any credence to what he had said or not said.

Paradoxically, the New Testament does not appear to be gospel to me. Much of it was wriiten on the basis of dubious epistolary record or hearsay. Are we that gullible to this day?

The circumstances of the Resurrection, the main premise upon which Christianity arose, is highly suspect and dubious, at best. How can we be certain that such an event actually occurred? The cowardly disciples of JC, it is said, took the proverbial ball and ran with it and thus a legend was born.

Intelligent people must, naturally, challenge the veracity of this story. And, thankfully, many do. In my view, it is high time that we began to seriously focus on more realistic and meaningful issues facing our time rather than dwell on apparent fairytale and folklore.

Regards.

If we would permit ourselves to ask what we can learn from each situation we are confronted with and really would take the time to do such a self-investigation, life could be so much more balancing and rewarding in the end.

Mieke

Sorry, I am a little off topic, but today many of us are very thankful for the New York Times!

I've learned what you resist persists. But where does it persist? In the news media? In the public square? In the White House? In the court of public opinion?

No.

I this is a most personal thing and exactly as the "kingdom of God is at hand", so is "evil".

I have a thought-game I play every now and again. It's this: "reality" is only what I can touch with my hands, smell, and taste. Everything else is the compilation of language.

Does this thought-game let me off the hook? Not if you're me. It's the most difficult game in the world because now I'm completely responsible for me.

During this thought-game, if I become indignant toward those around me and "resist" them, I only exacerbate the problems caused my false pride and ego.

And as I try to resist my own darkness, I become only like Shakespeare's Edmund, perhaps the ONLY character in Shakespeare who was self-consciously evil.

Man, I need to wear life like a loose robe.

'..The only fly in the ointment is that Jesus gave in to evil and is worshipped for it. This moral dilemma has vexed the world for centuries. Now that morality has reversed itself and punishing all evil-doers to the absolute maximum is the most Christian thing to do, we can all rest easy. Jesus's most radical ideas have been washed clean from our memories and our conscience..'

ok, I'm speechless,

Love, Passion,

I wonder if their are any good kshatriyas around anymore? Or for that matter is anyone living their own true dharma, or are we just reaping karma?

A Righteous War
Gita II:31 Considering, also, your own dharma, you should not waver; for to a kshatriya nothing is better than a righteous war.

Gita II:32 Happy indeed are the kshatriyas, O Partha, to whom comes such a war, offering itself unsought, opening the gate to heaven.

Gita II:33 But if you refuse to wage this righteous war, then, renouncing your own dharma and honour, you will certainly incur sin.

Dr. Chopra continues to present such a rosy picture of life, keep up the good work.

Resist not nuclear proliferation
Resist not AIDS
Resist not Hate speech
Resist not racism

Only resist what certain people tells us to resist like global warming and dare I say Christians.

Amba

I always took those words from Jesus to mean that, by opposing evil with force you become the thing you claim is evil in the first place. Thus creating more evil.

However if offering up the other cheek ultimately leads to someone killing you, then it could mean, that’s an acceptable outcome, because your spirit will live on.

An almost impossibly high standard to live by for individuals let alone nations.

Hi Deepak,

It is amazing how some are so selective in their application of certain teachings.

I have applied the items mentioned, not consistently of course, and it works. It is if some divine power takes over and intervenes and what you would expect to happen does not, the other becomes quite often transformed sometimes the experience a catharsis.

It is almost as if some demon (born of an experience, a denial of Self, a long ago, passed down through the ages) is trying to transfer to you. Evil wants you to fight back “resist” because this is a denial of self.

When you one said "do not resist evil" one might have been teaching that if you resist you are denying your Self in the other. The denial of self is what created the "evil" in the first place. If you respond with anger you are denying your self, if you respond with compassion you are recognizing yourself.

Did not say it was easy.

It was the hardest test I ever had; it is like doing battle with the worst demon on the planet.

I would repeat in my mind over and over like a mantra....

Love is relentless I shall not waiver.

However if one were to be slapped let them slap you again. But if one is attempting to kill you this is another matter, feel free to chop off their head and send them on to their next life, just be sure to see them as yourself and keep love in your heart.

Besides you can't really kill your self, what matters is what is in your heart and the experience you create for yourself in all your points of view.

Lord, I pray to become as "weak" and radical as Jesus by fully embracing forgiveness... and learning what true love is all about.
Amen

Love, Kristin

I can understand why Deepak makes the statements he does about Christian society ignoring essential moral values of certain teachings such as resist not evil. This is a teaching, it's in the bible and yet why is it ignored, even running counter.

My answer may bring some light here, we are not a Christian society alone, our foundations come not only from Jesus teachings and the new testament, but the old as well. Judeo principals of ethical, moral, righteousness, justice have equal weight. "Do not stand idly" is also a teaching. It's not Monothesim alone, but ethical Monotheism.

Many Jewish communities have taken the lead in the fight to stop genocide in Darfur, Sudan, to date 400,000 innocent people have died.

Perhaps an addendum to resist not evil makes more sense, which is:

Resist not evil to oneself, but do not resist evil that's being done to others.

The teaching of ethical monotheism can be summed up by the famous prophet Micah:

"To do justice, love goodness, and walk humbly with your God."

Deepak if you are going to criticize the US or western society please include Ethical Monotheism in your criticism, it will reflect a more accurate picture.

I can't comment to those who take a more Advaitic approach to evil , self, and non self.

Steve

What Jesus Meant by Forgive People for their actions is that the affairs of mankind are trivial.

If you can not forgive or if you are so screwed up that you can not let go then it means you have subscribed to the Game. You are involved with the Ego and it's need to be recognised for your ideas, your beliefs, your self.

"Forgive them Father for they know not what they do"

We know not what we do for we are blinded by the veil of the Ego.

When Jesus speaks to the Father he is speaking Inwards, he is speaking to all things, the father as he calls it is the Omnipresent Subject that is the source of all manifestation and is the silent being in your head, in your heart, in any place you want to try and localise the Father.

Bless me Father for I have sinned! well it was the Father who was doing the sinning aswell LOL.

Bless

Strange things are happening on this site. At first two copies of Deepak's post appeared with just one comment on each. I wrote a comment on the second copy. I pressed post and rushed into the kitchen without checking whther the comment appeared on the blog or not. When I came back, still there were two copies of the same article. The first one had several comments and the second one still had just the same one comment and no other comments. My comment was not there either. Now I see just one copy of the article. The second copy along with the just one comment is also gone.

Maybe your Kitchen is a gateway to a paralel Universe Symala?.

This Blog is Probably connected to an SQL Server or an Oracle Server, which may then be clustered for down time, in which case you may have posted onto one of the Databases while one was down and then when the 2 or 3 servers Synchronise their Database your Entry will appear again. or there may be another technology they are using to Mirror the data, but either way it can sometimes look a bit spooky when using Clusters.

Regards

Jesus

lol

yes Simon, the Vedanta point of view is, ever present, though, the legimatacy of 'the' christianity, is short-circuited, the code of conduct, everlasting, nonetheless, the same,
cheers,
I'm having a heineken's, the Guininess
too heavy, and no girls around, now, so no wodka,
Love, Passion,

Simon_Freejohn,
Thanks. You brought up a good point. There is a valid reason and a good explanation for everything, isn't it?
Jesus has a good reason to say "resist not evil"; so also, when we try to fight the evil ones, we have a good reason to do so. We just have to know when to resist and when not to.

like i have heard someone say, The Buddha had a great advantage in not having access to any books on enlightenment...conceptual adherence based on second-hand inferences has inherent limitations....personal authentication and discovery is the key....as different from acquired and conceptual notions of morality/spirituality...Reading a map is never the same as visiting a place....the need of the hour at any given moment, in my opinion is for more Christs rather than christians...

Dear Deepak,

Most profound your posting, Deepak. Bible Scholars have described Jesus'teachings, the radical ideas, as the tenents of the kingdom he spoke about - quite contrary to the rules we mortals live by. And yet, these radical ideas can transform, extremely difficult to live by. Perhaps "quite confidence" [faith]in the midst of ambivalence is what is required.

Susan

Susan,

I am trying to make sense of what you just wrote above. You seem a little confused.

Angie,

I was referring to the Deepak's comment on Matthew 5:38-42 - they are contrary to how we [atleast me] respond to life's circumstances. The Biblical scholars have referred these [from my reading of them] as tenents of a kingdom Jesus spoke about - a completely different way of thinking and living. I think it will require "quite confidence" to follow a life of forgiveness. I hope this makes sense. I am not a theologian.

Susan

Hello Everybody,

Brother Simon claims he knows how to interpret Jesus's teachings! Wow! This guy is our resident genius scholar! Wow! I am literally floored, Brother Simon! You de the man, dude!

"What Jesus Meant by Forgive People for their actions is that the affairs of mankind are trivial," says Brother Simon.

Mrother Simon, have you written that book yet? I will buy the first copy, I promise!

Heavy D.

Am out.

I'm calling in the paradox behind the dillemma,
and calling it a night, (and I'm polish, some things are just 'not done' ;)

it's the,
'neighbour doctrine'
vs.
'unconditional love'
in the christian point of view,

Love, Passion, and peace everywhere, Santa Claus,
does exists, no matter what, the Vatican is a fairytale!

Mind's action is more potent than physical action, soul's action is more potent than mind's action.

Not resisting is resisting through soul's action.

Jesus is just saying what Lao Tze would have said in the words :"By resisting you not-resist and by not-resisting you resist."

Harb

Harb,

Quoting you..."What Jesus Meant by Forgive People for their actions is that the affairs of mankind are trivial."

How did you arrive at this conclusion, Harb?

Spence.

Thank you Deepak for the blog.I believe it is difficult for me to follow the teachings of Jesus.I am glad I was not born in a christian family, because I would not be a very good christian at all.Resist not evil seems very difficult.I am inclined to fight the evil, not physically but with thoughts and emotions and words.I don't think I can turn the other cheek if some one were to hit me.If some one were to hurt me I will probably distance myself from that person.I don't seem to have too much trouble regarding money lending.

I don't think of myself as a bad person. I try to follow basic teachings in my religion like do not steel, do not lie,do not hurt , do not kill,do not praise yourself,do not get angry, do not demean others,etc.I understand I am supposed to treat every one as myself. But to me it is difficult to do.I am able to put myself in other people's shoes and try to see their point of view.

Very interesting topic. God bless you Deepak.

Deepak,

Your post reminds me of something that I studied couple of years back in one of my course in " Rational Decision Making"

How do we deal with religious and cultural beliefs at this century? One of the Indian Tribes in Canada has a custom of leaving their sixth child (if that’s a girl child) in cold outside to die. This has been a practice for many centuries. I believe that this is still being practiced. How do we counter this century old practice? In our rational decision-making we analyzed (There are many iterative process and trade offs to be made during our analysis, I don’t want to get into the details) all issues and finally arrived at a conclusion that " Killing a child is not right".

I can give examples in Hinduism (That is the only religion that I some what know of) How religious and cultural believes have been questioned and how it evolved over a period of time. As you may aware of" sathi" in Hinduism where the women is forced into fire when her husband dies. Now this practice is largely stopped except very rare incidents.

We should not blindly follow what is been said in many religious books (Bible, Geeta and Quran etc..,) and cultural believes. We should constantly question them.

For instance things that has been said a century ago may not stand today. Simple example is some religion advocate for more children in the family, this may be right a century ago. I don’t think that holds today. Same like Hindus worship Cows why? Century ago there were no reproductive techniques and cows are used for all-purpose from getting milk to transportation and ploughing. In those days how do we tell 90% of the illiterate people?. The wise asked everyone to worship to save the population.

I am wondering if I blindly follow what Jesus and Buddha said, I wont have a face. Probably that’s why they are God and we are not!!

I believe if we all use this rational decision-making process there won’t be any religious and cultural issues.

Yogi

Hi Deepak, I forgot to add my one cent worth on forgiving. I believe I can forgive. Sometimes it takes me a little time to sort it out but eventually I forgive.If I don't my blood pressure goes up. So I have figured out it is better for my health to learn to forgive and to forget.Thanks.

I think Deepak wrote this to stir everyone up. Looks like it worked!

I guess I am the dummy here Deepak but could you explain what you mean by saying that Jesus gave in to evil? When and how did he do that?

Thanks,
Michael J

Dear Deepak,

This is very insightful,and timely post!

While there are posters here who would have us view the Bible as folklore and fairy tales, and thus dismiss what Jesus may or may not have said as irrelevant, I think they are missing the point!

A very LARGE segment of the American population ARE practicing Christians! America WAS founded upon many Christian doctrines, and therefore it IS a very relevant subject today!

You have hit upon some important inconsistency in what America say's it believes and what America's actually does in policy!

Love your enemies! Do good unto those who despitefully use you! Resist not evil! Turn the other cheek, and other "believed" teachings of Jesus are being largely ignored, not only in Governmental policy, but in Religious policy as well.

This wouldn't be so bad if the Government would shut up, relative to religious matters of good and evil, and how they have God on their side! Then they could defend the country in a secular manner, based on our best interests however they choose, without this criticism.

The separation of Church and State however seems to be eroding, not only in America but in other countries as well. ( I see it here in the Philippines where I live) I believe soon there may be no difference.

That is another reason why these core teachings of Jesus, need to be polished up and remembered, lest the World returns to the "crusades mentality".

It is my belief that "WE ARE ALL DEEPLY IN EACH OTHERS DEBT!" This understanding makes it easy to follow those teachings of Jesus.

Respectfully,

Stan

Geeta,

I don't agree with " Do not lie" thing as said in many religions.

I would rather go by Thriukkural (Those who don't know Thiruvalluvar, he was a philosopher who lived about 2000 years ago in South India, There are 1330 couplets he wrote all about life in general and living)

"Things said in pursuit of goodness
pure, are norms sure to truth"

Which means you can lie if the purpose is for greater good. (Not for your personal benefits)

Here is a link http://www.coimbatore.net/kural/ku_30.html
( This translation version is not that good)

Yogi

Here was an instance where I was freed from the gravity of evil: when I was very young, I was molested by the pastor of my church. As a result, I saw all ministers and those who proposed to have the means to access God as evil or at least pathetically deluded.

During a vision many years later, I saw the man now as a young boy himself minus the beard he'd always worn to hide the severe cleft pallet he had. As a child with a bare face he was exposed, and I saw other children taunting him, "OWL FACE, OWL FACE, OWL FACE." They were being wicked and cruel.

And just as quickly the words came to me, "poor owl face, poor, poor owl face," as I shook violently and cried.

Ten years ago, I regarded this man with venomous hatred. Today, as a result of this vision, I can joyfully participate in the sorrows that caused him to violate so many young boys. For the were sorrows quite similar to my own as a child (I had teeth so buck I could eat corn on the cob through a picket fence).

I'm not sure exactly how, but I think this may be the way I was able to forego evil-resistance. I was able to put away childish things.

title quote: "What Does Jesus Mean By "Resist Not Evil?"

It means; evil is obvious to us; we recognise it; there is nothing to resist; as it is an inherent reistance.

It means, it is man's self-desire; which construes a twisted view of reality. Greed, corruption, jealousy, resentment; etc...evils of the character; not usually visible to the self.

North

One can only wash clean, what was dirty; I see nothing dirty, in the true compassion and convictions shown by a man, named Jesus?

North

Stan. Great post!

Dana. Your honesty and insight is refreshing, refreshing and inspiring.

May the One bless us all.

Peace

personal authentication is evident in your sharing kate..beautiful...

so also dana..love reading ur express in integrity..mystical dawning of the intelligence behind the words...

Deepak,

Jesus also said:

I

"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth.
I did not come to bring peace, but a sword". (Matthew 10:34)

***

II

“For I have come to set
a man against his father,
a daughter against his mother,
and a daughter-in-law against the mother-in-law. (Matthew 10:35)

***

III

"But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag;
and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. (Luke 22:36)

***

IV

The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords."
"That is enough," he replied. (Luke 22:38)

***

What Does Jesus Mean By Saying Sell Your Cloak And Buy A Sword
and "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth?"

***

PS: I hope the readers and the bloggers now do not come after me,
suing me, for quoting what Jesus said. I apologise in advance
if their sensitive feelings are hurt once again! I do not plan to come
to IntentBlog to post my poetry or make any comments because of
how I was threatened here recently and all the private investigative IP
search was carried out against me. However, I could not resist
posting this comment after reading Deepak's thought provoking blog.

Spencer,

The words you quoted are not mine.

Thanx anyway.

TZ,

I for one would like to welcome you again. A row is to learn your lessons and move ahead. I have learnt mine and am rather thankful to the circumstances which made it possible. I had never minded your words really and I still wonder how I was drawn into minding Kavita's. It was my lesson. I will be surprized if I am again annoyed at anybody's comments. Let me see.

Harb.

I love you Deepak! Thank you for sharing the truth about God.

God is Love and Love is God.

Love, Char

Dana,

You made your point so unassumedly. So simply.You chose to understand, rationalize,humanise and then forgive. This is the modern interpretation of forgiveness as opposed to 'turning the other cheek'. It is more practical therefore viable. Our reason is the best faculty we have to safeguard our morality. Forgiveness features majorly in my list of moral values which serve as anchoring in rough weather.

If one pauses to think, we are only enraged at the wrongdoers because we make idols of those things that they take away from us. Surrender attachment and receive bliss. Forgiveness slowly loses its 'unattainable'tag and gets destabilized.

So firstly in an efort to be 'kind' to myself, I prefer to let an unsavoury event or incident go.Secondly , I reckon that we are not privy to the stories behind peoples actions, so it is imperative to give cognisance to the limits of our understanding. When our senses are limted and our resonong based on these, how can we boast of understanding deeds or actions in their entirety? We must suspend being judgemental. As an aside, it would undoubtedly contribute towards harmony on this site as well.

This does not in any way mean that we condone evil deeds or endorse the idea that different ideas carry the same moral weight.

Human betterment is a gradual two-step-forward-one-step-back effort. I daresay this has been true down the ages as well. So I do not agree with Deepaks statement that 'morality has reversed itself'. Jesus' commandment of 'forgiveness' necessitated by circumstances of his life,clearly reflect that morality was in short supply as much in B.C. as it is in A.D.

Tanzan
Welcome back. We don't want to miss any intellectual opinions here, and we all know that you are one. I guess we all have survived that storm :-). It was just a flare up from who otherwise are genuine in nature.

Thanks for posting the contrary quotes from Bible here. Lets see how Deepak answers them.

Naveen

Deepak,

Your Quote" People seem to assume that the moment you brand someone else as evil (terrorists, Nazis, mass murderers, pedophiles, etc.), you have every right to seek revenge against them. The War on Terror is based on this notion"

War on terror is not based on revenge. It is based on protection. I don't think American Government is going after Osama to take revenge and is rather to protect from future attacks.

Harb was stating in another post that all these murderers, terrorist, killers are product of the society and hence society is the one to blame and not the individual.

We all in need of Hero’s and Villains and hence we create them, unless this life will be boring........

Yogi

Tanzan,

I have a couple of hypothetical assumptions, beliefs even, about the context of the Scripture you have quoted Tanzan. I believe the words such as setting a “man against his father/mother” is directly answered afterward with “ones enemies a member of one’s household.” In that, the over-riding theme is that of loving another as much as, or, in fact even more than, oneself, is the single-most message of the Holy Bible itself. It is when we start getting more complicated, and when we struggle with just the content of the Torah alone, and do not even know whether to take the apparent brutal depictions literal or not, and such other ‘stuff’ like that, you know, like how some of ‘Paul’s’ 13 letters can be construed in an anti-Semitic fashion, etc.: these ‘things’ just mess us up. And then, we have not even thus far considered the teachings of Buddha himself, which I am largely ignorant of, and of course our Hindu brethren, and Islam brethren, etc.

If we could all just keep it simple, you know, that literal ‘be as a child stuff,’ the ‘basic’ themes of all traditional religions is of One Supreme God, love, and then, again, then we start off on ‘tangents,’ to utilize a woefully inadequate word, and we just really screw up. This is my belief. When in fact we do have our world revolution, by just keeping it simple, in constructing our cybernetic house of glass, based upon a reasoned lottery of a democratic union, again keeping it simple. . ., sheee----ut! We are literally just going to explode with openness and love. This is my belief, my hope, and ‘my’ utmost dream, and I do so hope yours’ too.

But, more to the point, I truly believe if we can just incorporate the one basic message of the man we historically know as Jesus Christ, and do unto ‘the other’ as we would be done by, well then, perhaps we could do it. Perhaps we could bring about a thousand years of peace.

I am ‘game.” And I do love you, I do.

I do. . .

Peace.

Tanzen is correct

Revelation 2:27
And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Sounds like the demise of everything wrought by Ego, and those that perverted the teachings. A bit like Shiva returning as well Ego framework annihilation.

The funny thing is the ones proclaiming stuff in his name are the targets.

I think the iron rod kind of means One would not accept any BS or Illusion, it's like don't even waste your breath.

Everything with a foundation of ignorance will fall to pieces like the pottery.

That would be my intention.

There are many aspects to the One.

Yogi,

I believe we could have a world with no enemies at all. . .

peace brother

My response to this blog by Deepak:

Yeah, right. But do you practice what you preach?
So are you giving your coat and cloak to the people who are sueing you for your coat, or are you fighting your case?

Cheers!
Navin

Yet only ego can resist evil, spirit cannot because evil does not exist.

Don't respond to another persons Illusion.

It means if somebody calls you an idiot, you don't yell back well you are a moron. You say "Okay" because what they said is not real.

You have no Ego to engage because you are not lying to yourself about who you really are.

Dear Deepak....Jesus was an Unparalleled Saint! How can one expect the followers to reach anything closer to that. I'm reminded of those words of yours "We know we don't live in an Enlightened world". What a soft way to convey the state of affairs of the world Dear Deepak:)) Morality...Integrity are going down the drain in today's age in my opinion, wasn't very different though in any age as you always talk about. Little ups and downs over the centuries, the % varies as they say. Your post reminds me of the Young Deepak who was so good at dissecting and revealing what religion and its followers are all about. Can't help but mentioning your classic htkg!! But my personal take Dear Deepak...I've written this in my posts to you. You look so good when you talk about Peace and ANH and I do think as most others here that you shud be focussed there...not politics and these same old religious conflicts. You simply can't change them, the human nature. I'm just echoing what I learnt from you. If at all it has to change...it has to change thru' the natural cycle, that of Evolution of consciousness, thru' the Divine order.

Peace&Love..Sachin

Deepak has shown one facet of Jesus:

Quote "He says, in modern words:
You've been taught an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, but I say don’t resist evil.
If someone hits you, let him hit you twice.
If someone sues you in court to get your coat, give it to him and your cloak, too.
If someone forces you to go one mile, go two.
If someone asks you for something, give it to him. If he wants to borrow money, don't turn your back."

While TZ has shown an other - just the reverse:

Quote: ""Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword". (Matthew 10:34)

“For I have come to set a man against his father,
a daughter against his mother, and a daughter-in-law against the mother-in-law. (Matthew 10:35)"

One shows a meek man other a rebel.

Why is it so? What is the explanation?

Bring before your mind the Yin Yang diagram, half white and half black. The story of any life at any level begins from its center, first traverses the white half and then the black half before again ending in the center.

White half in our case is also our youth, our life up to about 40, while the black half is our later life - from 40 to say 80.

In the white half we are governed by the philosophy of "Will to Power." In the black half we turn meek or we are governed by the philosophy of "Will to be Free", of "Moksha, Nirvana."

In fact on the Earth as an organism scale West represents the white half and hence it has been governed by the philosophy of what Neitzche called Will to Power, white East represents the black half and hence its predominant philosphies of Nirvana, moksha, mukti etc tc.

Anyway, all history making men are just extraordinary rebels and meek persons first according to their own age and then according to the cultural Age in which they are, because the cultural Age itself could be in the rebel or meek phase of a cultural cycle as a whole. For example now we are in the later or meek phase of our cultural cycle which began with AD 0. (So that any history makng man now will talk more as meek than as a rebel.)

So anyway, Jesus spoke like a rebel first and like a person governed by the will to be free later. Obviously if you are a rebel you will talk of swords and all that. And if you want to be free now, you will talk of giving in.

Explanation could be long one but I am not very apt at writing all that is in my mind. But yet I think I have made my point clear.

As a rebel he says What TZ has quoted.

As a Meek man he says what Deepak had quoted.

Harb

Remember as children when we played pretend and make believe.

Well adults forget, and they take the play seriously.

They just need to be re mind ed.

Dear Kaveetaa....I see you in the debate mode here which I find you fantastic doing it, but I love when you talk softly from the heart...just my take:) doesn't mean you shudn't be debating with your fire.

Can I say something in jest Kaveetaa? How about the possibility of taking two steps fwd and sometimes 3 backward and sometimes 1, especially in terms of spirituality...the human conscience? Materially yes...we have moved 100 steps. Unarguable.

I know you love debating. I don't though. I find myself better off drinking coconut water on a beach and Admiring the awesome Ocean and seeing the creator's hands behind all that.

Joy&Love..Sachin

Yogi,

One cannot have a war on terror.

Terror has no mind or body and makes no decisions.

It it an irrational statement that cannot lead to a conclusion because it is by it's nature an Illusion.

It is the fear in the mind of the enemy that we must deal with.

Fear it's what keeps us apart.

Hey I cut the words 'terror' 'hope' 'God' and 'evil' out of the dictionary.

Do you think they are now dead?

Syamala,

There is a valid reason and a good explanation for everything, isn't it?

NO, there is absolutely no reason for anything.

There is Cause and Effect aka Karma. If I eat lots of food and sit around I will get Fat, If I smoke then I will probably get a serious illness, If I throw myself off a cliff I will probably die. There is Cause and Effect, every action has a re-action, becauise this is Divine Interaction.

There is no need to question the resons for things, know that reasons do not matter and if you can not understand a thing then the every day re-action is to become afraid or Intimidated by it. When you begin to stop searching for reasons things become very clear and in their place.

xx

Cheers Marek enjoy your Pint Mate.

Barapapa - very interesting. it would be a great start for the US to forgive our enemies. But how do we get the terrorists and those who hate America to forgive us for our wrongs? Until the latter happens, it would not make a difference if we declared peace on an organization like Al-queda.

Bharat

it's morning, or rather afternoon here ;), Simon, a couple of pints don't..make me hitting the gym in a short while,

or, in the total absence of meaning, faith is the
ultimate resource, better to believe in fairytales, than nothing at all,

That's my CwG verdict, and sticking to it!

and for Christianty's sake, you loose faith in people, it's an Ego thing, but no, never in Spirit,

and for 'the Vatican'.. I'm too old to be believing in fairytales, but I sure hope,
the Ghost of Christmas past, and Christmas future, visit the new Pope, in the Present,
past conditioning,

Gonna do my tibetan yoga now, good for the chakra's and the joints, spamm ya all later,

Love, Passion, and polish applepie,

Dear Deepak,
It seems that Jesuss' theory was different then Rama or Krishna because Rama killed Ravana and Krishna could not forgive Duryodhna.I stand by the theory of Rama and Krishna.You have to eliminate the evils from the society if they become incurable.Had Ravana was not killed by Rama,you can imagine the amount of evil deeds that would have spreaded to the society by him.And so is the case with Duryodhna and other villains of the society.
So fight the evil should be the mantra for today

Deepak and all,
I think any teaching has a context in which it is applicable. It should not be literally applied to each and every situation. I interpret Jesus's "Resist not evil" to mean "Do not react". For example, people get into road rage and end up in killing or hurting one another because either party involved keeps reacting to the other's behavior without backing off and letting it go, and the situation spirals out of control until it becomes dangerous. Gandhi was insisting on Hindus not to retaliate even if Muslims committed violence against them, again for the same reason; retaliation invokes retaliation. It does not solve the problem.
However, we have to put robbers, pedophiles, etc. in prison; otherwise they would repeat their crimes and harm people. In this case, locking up criminals is not for retaliation or revenge, it is for protecting the society. So, the reason why we do what we do is important. If punishment is the only way to teach somebody to change their violent behavior, then punishing that somebody is moral and killing somebody is the only way to protect the society then that killing is moral in Hindu religion as Yogesh pointed out. To me "Resist not evil" means "Do not show vengence" "Do not retaliate"

Simon,
I agree there is Cause and Effect aka Karma. What is Cause?, it is the reason. Every effect has a Cause that caused it. That is why when something happens, there is a reason behind it. Like you said, if you get fat you might have eaten lots of food and sit around but then your fatness might have been due to something different such as some health problem; if you find the reason, you will be able to rectify it. If we analyze reasons (same as causes) for events (same as effects), we can do some learning and prevent the same process from happenning again.

Mallika,
It is OK. I just wanted to let the webmaster know that there are some problems with the functioning of the site. Thanks for all your posts and efforts to maintain this site and give interested readers the opportunity to express their views. You are doing a great job.

Stan,

I do not agree one iota in your statements. There is absolutely nothing original in what you have to say. Has it ever occured to you that these religious icons, Jesus and Muhamed, were just ordinary men like you and I, and that when you pray to a Jesus (or a Muhammed) you are actually praying to a dead guy? I think you should be openminded. That is the only way you may find the truth. I believe that science is reality. Religion is founded in myths.
Who cares on what religious principles America was founded. Don't you think that what Bush is doing dropping his bombs is not terror? If you were living where those bombs are dropped, I bet you call Bush a terrorist. Is America willing to give up religion in searce of the truth? Most Christians are rightwing nutcases and firmly set in their ways. Bush is the biggest example of that. That fellow is not really all there. He believes that God wants him to wage wars. Didn't he call himself the war president, and a man of God. A man of God? A man of God who likes to kill innocent people and babies in the name of fighting the terrorists. Stan and Craig, wake up and adopt a new way of looking at the world. As long as you look at it in the foggged lens of religion, you will never begin to appreciate a new perspective or arrive at reality.

AJ

Hello Deepak and Everyone,

There are so many "Jesus" experts in the world today."Jesus said this, Jesus said that, Jesus did this, Jesus did that." I have always been confused by the whole "Jesus is the Saviour" stuff. The Bible, well, who the h-ll can even decipher the meanings? I havn't a clue as to what Jesus meant, I wish he had been a little clearer, God, he had to know how dense we are! But, no, let them figure it out..it should take about 2,3,4 thousand years...and then, only, maybe.

Resist not evil...let me give it a shot....
In my own life, an example, folks were saying certain things about me that were not true....I chose not to deal with those lies...instead I just lived my life...truly...I did not defend the lies...I knew the truth...it did not matter what anyone else thought...I knew the truth and I lived it...I think the folks(whom I have had friendly..but not ("real" friendly) dealings with) still stand by their beliefs and that is okay...someday they will know the truth. Well, in this case people were not plotting to blow me to smithereens so I was pretty safe in my no defense, defense.

I have read all of Deepaks blogs and I wonder if they are really accomplishing anything other than just being the voice of peace vs war (not that that is bad)but is it really saying anything different? Are these blogs really capable of turning someone's Attention from one place to another, are they really capable of placing an "opponents" Attention in a different place? Are they just blogs contributing to the us vs. them mentality?

Take this blog for example.."Has this country forgiven anyone lately?"..I cannot get my mind around a WHOLE country being forgiving..most people can't forgive a slight insensitive comment made against them- much less a terrorist attack.
I do like Deepak giving "Jesus" sermons to the right-wingers, though, they really need them..They throw "Jesus" sayings around like confetti..

I guess I am really a little disappointed in Deepaks blogs, and I am not sure why? Maybe, because I am reading from the "opponents" point view and I am not seeing anything that really grabs my Attention away from something to something. Maybe, I am just babbling about nothing...peace ruth

Is it not the easist thing in the world to
love people who agree you? Perhaps Jesus is asking us to go beyond our comfort zone. To
love as He loved. To speak for the voiceless
people of the world.Where there is hatred, let me sow love, despair , hope.

Love to all

Richard Thomas,

I have only had time to read as far as your post, but I wanted to comment that I think you have nailed it--You wrote "Evil wants you to resist."--it took me a long time to see that but it is true--"turn the other cheek" does not mean let people walk all over you--it means that reisting evil gives "evil" power over you--you become a puppet on a string. "Turning the other cheek" is the way to compassion...I think the mind cannot know compassion while doing this dance of "eye for an eye"--"nonresistance" brings about understanding of the other--compassion arises when you turn the other cheek. Much easier said than done. Good luck everyone. Interesting article Deepak.

Bharat,

You say: "it would be a great start for the US to forgive our enemies. But how do we get the terrorists and those who hate America to forgive us for our wrongs? Until the latter happens, it would not make a difference if we declared peace on an organization like Al-queda."

Maybe it is easier to understand if you reduce the whole scenario to only two people who hate each other. Imagine that you are one of them. If you completely forgive the other person and interact only from a place of true respect and willingness, you will change the whole relationship. The other person will automatically change his attitude, given that your resistance is gone. It is like in martial arts, when someone attacks you and you simply take a step to the side, without a drop of aggression, they fall flat to the floor. You can even help them up and repeat this until they notice that there's no one there to fight with.

Nobody can fight if there's no one who agrees to fight back. Try it in your closest relationships, at home, and you'll see. Whenever someone is angry and attacks you verbally, meet them without any resistance. It's hilarious to see the surprise on the other person's face... and it's fun to laugh together afterwards.

There's no difference between interpersonal and international relationships. they work according to the same principles.

Wow Aurora,

Absolutely wonderful and true!

Hi Yogi Seliah,you are right, the right thing to do is not to hurt any one by thought, word or deed. So, if truth is very hurtful it is ok to tell a white lie.God bless you Yogi.

Hence when I say, "I believe," nad not that "I know" AJ. This is where I seem to differ from our mutual distrust in a blind faith to any sort of belief system where we are jumping to metaphysical conclusions. I am willing to except that my belief system coudl very well in fact be faulty.

There may be no God at all.

I strive to maintain an 'objectified uncertainy' because I damn sure do not feel all that much love out there on those mean streets, and, I have not seen any awesome miracles in my life (a graveyard of people coming to life, a human being flying around in the sky, etc.)

And while I talk to God often, and I do so believe I had a genuine 'spiritual awakening' they talk about in AA, or rather, a transcendent moment with the Supreme Other, like in a 'born-again' experience. . .

But then again, my psyche having been inundated with such stories all of my western life; I can fully imagine this was a self-induced need to give meaning to my life. The good old irrational will to believe in something rather than nothing.

So while I say I believe it is possible we can truly have a world of peace, and I do so truly believe this, and that I do in fact love you, the other,

I am not going to kill a man over this belief!

I want a peaceful world wide revolution, and if I shot you (if I owned a gun), a cop, or anybody else in the world to have 'my' world revolution, well, it would not be much of a revolution at all would it be.

I would then be just another killer, or deluded madman, who thinks he knows some universal truth. . .

I believe in Jesus Christ, God, and eternal life. . .

But, I do have lingering doubts in the back of my head, I see too many of our children dying, needlessly; it will be impossible for me to truly ever believe in God 100 percent, until death itself is no more. . .

The lion said, "O, I do believe, I do believe, I do believe in wizards," and then he jumped out of the window; and that wizard did indeed turn out to be a fake. . .

I come in peace, do you need a coat, give me your address, and I will send it to you, I do not really have much money, I wish I had none at all actually, but I will give you anything I have if you need it, right now!

I love you

peace

messed up the first paragraph sorry. . .

To believe in something I do not think any of us has actually physically seen would be living Satre's bad faith in my eyes

It would then be Heidegger's 'inauthentic being' right?

I pray one day we can all dispel of objective uncertainty, with empirical knowledge. . .

Would be cool if God just appeared to us all, would it not. . .

When it comes to Jesus Sermon on the Mount, Christians have often created a theory of the different dharmas in different aspects of life, kind of like the Gita does. For instance, while this forgiveness is certainly an ideal, even a command, to an individual believer, it is not necessarily believed to be binding for the duty of leading a state. That's for example what the great Evangelical reformer Martin Luther held, and certainly most of the Church tacitly believed over the centuries.

Without wanting to do away anything that is challenging about Jesus sayings as confered in the gospels, you have to realize that much of this was said in the expectation of an imminent end of the world. So, these teachings are ever challenging to us, but they are not necessarily to be taken as a prescription of how to live a stable life from childhood to the deathbed of old age while raising a family and taking care of grandchildren. Jesus did not come to add to the books of laws and prescriptions that you have to follow to attain salvation.

Hence the reference to Jesus dividing families, etc. When the world is thought to come to a close, you don't think too much about sustainable advice for a long and happy life. Instead, one way to take these teachings is to keep forever humble and never even think that there is some law we could just follow to attain salvation. Instead, salvation comes from the Lord and is given by Grace to those who beg for it.

Now, having said that, I completely agree that when it comes to dealing with the so called "evil" in the world, humans would be well advised to take a humble attitute and cut the hipocritical crap. The fire of terrorism is fuled by well known mechanisms. We don't need to repeat that here.

Finally I'd like to point out that those who claim to be Christians, or claim to be saved, or who think they are "God's own country" and stuff like that may be farther away from His mercy than many others who are humble and uncertain. So, please don't take America's political actions inside and outside as representative for the Christian way.

It's a shame that people rot in merciless prisons for decades, are killed, and mistreated and that the majoity here feels that they are doing something good by "stomping" evil into the ground. They never do. This hatred and lust for revenge is so deeply rooted in many people here in America and everywhere else in the world. How can a heart full of hatred receive the Grace and Mercy of God? And as Christians we have no other way than to receive His mercy every day.

The way some people glorify Jesus, Muhammad, Buddha and the rest reminds me of how grownups try to trick innocent little kids of how Santa carries a big bag of goodies and then magically places presents under the tree. They tell the babies about how this fat guy can scale down the chimney, then goes to the next house and do the same trick all over again, then the next house and so on. The kids are even told about the magic key. Then when the kids get to be about 12, the go, "Mom is Santa really real?" The fable tellers in robes repeat the same nonsense about Christ and Muhammed each week and the poor suckers sitting in the aisles go amen, thank you Jesus or thank you Allah. Dont you see how ridiculous it all seems? We are a big part part of Nature just like all the other animals. But we think we are superior. Why are the animals not acting this stranely as humans? We are now the biggest problem to all of Nature, too.

AJ.

PS: The best religion is if you are rich, give to the poor, dont be too selfish, that makes more sense to me.

Syamala,

Reason means Purpose, or the set needs or validation for an event.

Causes do not have reasons, they happen they are the causation of experience within the field of the endless possibilities. There is no reason for them.

Why does the earth spin?,
Why is it round and not square?
Why Do I have 2 feet and 2 Hands?
Why is there water?
Why is there Sunlight?

What is the reason for these things?

The answer is there is no reason for them, they are the cause of endless choice, endless free choice has caused them to be the way they are.

It is Interesting to explore the patterns that cause certain things Like Illness, or changes to the enviroment and it is amazing when mankind causes change to these effects. If mankind evolves spiritualy then it will certainly become a very capable entity in the universe or alternitavly it will destroy itself. Each end of the spectrum is possible at the same time.

Peace xx

Dear Deepak,

Very interesting question. As Tanzan pointed out, there are many contradictions in Bible (and other religious texts as well) and it is almost impossible to reconcile them. That is the proof that these are all human creations, perhaps God inspired, but human nevertheless.

I have a Catholic friend, who wants to quote Jesus to Catholics to show how they are so out of tune with what Jesus taught. However, I don't know if he is ever going to be successful. Faith knows no logic.

Here is a quote from Jiddu Krishnamurthy

"...I maintain that Truth is a pathless land, and you cannot approach it by any path whatsoever, by any religion, by any sect. That is my point of view, and I adhere to that absolutely and unconditionally. Truth, being limitless, unconditioned, unapproachable by any path whatsoever, cannot be organised... The moment you follow someone you cease to follow Truth..."

Everyone of us needs to be a Buddha. It is probably not as hard as it seems. We are immersed in an organized religion, like a pop culture, that restricts our ways of thinking. We need to come out of that. A given moral code of conduct is good for some people, for some time and under certain circumstances but not forever.

Regards,

Ravi

I interpret these statements from Jesus as a lesson in not giving away power to others by reacting, and staying true to self. Forgiving is not about allowing. It is a grey area that I still contemplate often. To love thy neighbour, even when they cause us pain or humiliation is the love of God. It is free of judgement. It is also an integral part of attaining peace. It is also an extremely difficult thing to do. This lesson I learned from a painful divorce. I feel very grateful to have had the experience to learn from.

Blessings

Terri Lynn

Aurora,

I really like how you apply aikido/budo principles to life both micro and macrocosmically.
I have found it to be a great teacher too. Thank you for sharing that.

Terri Lynn

Thanks Terri, I was surfing your website and came back here to read your note to me. You have chosen a very healing place for your center. I notice that you don't have any Ayurveda there. Are you acquainted with it?

Harb, it's simple and true, all one has to do is try it :)

Hi Aurora. Thank you for taking the time to visit out site. It's in need of updating, but still presents the spirit of the Hill. Have you been to Thunder Bay? Yes, I have always been very fascinated by Ayurvedic wisdom. I do my best to incorporate the knowledge I have into my daily routine. I look forward to exploring more when my children are a little older and more independent. There aren't any Ayurvedic doctors or even practitioners here in Thunder Bay. Not yet anyways.

Whatever you resist you become.
If you resist anger, you are always angry.
If you resist sadness, you are always sad.
If you resist suffering, you are always suffering.
If you resist confusion, you are always confused.

We think that we resist certain states because
they are there, but actually they are there because we resist them.
--- Adyashanti

There is No Healer, no Doctor of the ultimate power of healing.

it is the one who becomes healed who does the healing, I can be sick...but it is my body who is sick, I can also heal by many means but it is me who is the healer.

Jesus says your faith has healed you and right he is. for there is no magic bullet there is just the felt condition, there is just the idea of being sick or well.

Simon,

You are not well!

You Dont Say! AJ

If only the doctors in the worlds hospitals had your intuition AJ.

LOL

Simon,
Since you made a distinction between reason and cause I looked into the Merriam-Webster on-line dictionary and found this:

Main Entry: cause
Pronunciation: 'koz
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French, from Latin causa
a : a reason for an action or condition : MOTIVE b : something that brings about an effect or a result
c : a person or thing that is the occasion of an action or state; especially : an agent that brings something about
d : sufficient reason

Main Entry: rea·son
Pronunciation: 'rE-z&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English resoun, from Old French raison, from Latin ration-, ratio reason, computation, from reri to calculate, think; probably akin to Gothic rathjo account, explanation
a : a statement offered in explanation or justification b : a rational ground or motive c : a sufficient ground of explanation or of logical defense; especially : something (as a principle or law) that supports a conclusion or explains a fact d : the thing that makes some fact intelligible : CAUSE

War

Hitler stated, to use an ugly real example, ‘the evil Jew.” He placed a value judgment upon the objective ‘other,’ such as, ‘those evil terrorists.’ Moreover, of course, the Jew is a particular ‘definitive’ (an ethnic race of humankind), as compared to the Hindu/Christian/Islamic extremist ‘particular’ definitive.

Then, we encounter such tenets of faith, to where one can be ‘Jewish of the heart,’ and then the point being, the ‘evil’ other can then become an inexhaustible resource; either of faith or for persecution.

Hitler’s physical actions were invading Poland, Belgium, and France, yet his language indicated he was only trying to ‘make the world a better place.” America’s physical actions are invading Afghanistan, Iraq, and possibly Iran, yet ‘our’ language indicates ‘we’ are only trying to spread ‘freedom’ and democracy.’

Concentration camps were places of horrendous evil, the reality of which are all too sadly real. The realities of Guantanamo Bay, Abu Gharib, and secret ‘renditions,’ are also all too sadly real. Do you or I REALLY know what more can be going on, which we are possibly being kept ‘in the dark’ about by ‘our’ government?

We better wake up and open our eyes people; we may be sleeping and are experiencing a terrible nightmare at this very moment. . .

I demand complete ‘de-yellowization’ of Google right now!

Can we get a visual?
Like Houston to the Moon, can we get a visual? Can we too, us free persons of the world, can we get a visual of all of the “secret” prisons of the world; then, we might truly get some freedom in the world.
Gates, CNN, MSNBC, Washington Post, can you help?
‘De-yellowize' Google please Lord!

Amen.

AJ

Perhaps I didn't do a very good job expressing myself. You seem to have the impression that I am a Christian and support President Bush in his holy war on terror. I'm not and I don't!

What I said was: ......" if the Government would shut up, relative to religious matters of good and evil, and how they have God on their side! Then they could defend the country in a secular manner, based on our best interests however they choose, without this criticism."

I also feel that Jesus and other religious Icons were just men like you and I, and if you have really been following my post you would see that I have said this a few times already. If Jesus wasn't a man like the rest of us, his not yielding to temptation would have been irrelevant to us mere mortals! I do think they were extra ordinary however not just ordinary.

I'm afraid you really missed the point of my post which was, that since a large part of the population of America believes in Jesus, and his teachings, therefore Deepak's comments on how they don't seem to be following many important aspects of those teachings is a relevant and timely observation.

I am also very sorry you don't believe "THAT WE ARE ALL DEEPLY IN EACH OTHER DEBT"

Respectfully,

Stan

Everyone forgets that Jesus said that YOU could could greater things than he. Of course since there are those that do not wnat you to be great, but rather subserviant, they try to make Jesus out to be something special you are not capable of, which is not the truth, you are very capable all of you of greatness and you are indeed divine, it is your true nature from which you have been misled.

The Senate on Friday blocked legislation to renew the Patriot Act, delivering a dramatic rebuff to President Bush that reflected rising concern over his treatment of civil liberties and privacy rights in the war on terrorism.

Good news.

Hi Terri,
no, I've never been to Canada, I'd love to one day. I'm glad you know about Ayurveda, it fits so well with your intention and other activities. Good luck!

Hi Craig,

you sound like a genuine good guy. We are miles apart in our thinking but I feel with you. We are both a little bit pissed off with what is happening to the good old USA.

Here is something that may help you as it helps me and it may help anyone else who is willing and in a position to try!

I don’t know if you live independently but if you do and are free to move around, why don’t you learn a couple of words of Spanish and go and live in a Mexican or Central American village or small town for a while. It will shake your priorities into a different order in a hurry. Many of those peoples own next to nothing but will probably share whatever they do have. Especially the indigenous peoples have adapted very nicely to being screwed by their governments and the rich and before them the European “Conquistadors” and the other misfits that spread the gospel along with every sickness that they “owned”. The Indigenous are cheerful and kind and chuckle when they see us run after the “almighty buck” and how we forget to live in the process. You can just feel the genuine happiness and the big hearts most of them have. You have to hurry though; many places are on their way to being “westernized”.

A good thing about the horde of cultural illiterates who presently run the White House, making choices who in the world should get killed, liberated or democratized is, if they keep going the way they are, most of us will be poor in the not too distant future. We can then live happily ever after. (Sorry for the sarcasm)

You see Craig, some of us are sharing many of your concerns and most of us want to change things the way you do, but a little break in Latin America will work wonders for anybody!

Feliz Navidad.

Indeed Skeptisch I feel what you are saying. I am with my utmost strength trying to be as ‘objective’ as I can, and we all quite miserably fail in this regard, indeed probably me more than most. I do not want to offend you, and I am sorry if I did, sincerely, I think you probably ‘feel’ that by now with my posts, ‘my’ peaceful do unto other cybernetic world-revolution ‘stuff’.’

I could have worded the analogy much better, I am sorry.

(So let us get ‘those’ dudes to de-yellowize Google now!) 

Love and peace brother

Syamala,

What Caused you to go and Look up the meaning of Reason and Cause? LOL

I Did not Look them because I have no reason to.

The word Reason may have a different meaning for you than it does for me, Cause is a spontanious action, where as reason means deliberate action.

The reason for something
The Cause of something

Destiny needs to have a reason, there needs to be a good and valid reason for why something is, the mind must have reason.

I know that there is no reason, there are causes of things, there is action, which can Cause and can effect but there is no reason for this action.

It is devastating for the ego to have to surrender to the fact that there is no reason for it's existence. but in actual fact there is no reason for it's existence because what you and I are is beyond reason, it has no need for reason, it is... because it can be.

Let go of this need for reasoning.

Merry Christmas xx

Simon,

our reasoning is the cause of our existence.

Because I will, therefore I am.

Because I reason, therefore I will.

Simon/Syamala - I haven't followed the entire discussion, but I can vouch for the fact that in philosophy reason and cause are technically different terms. One appeals to intelligibility, the other to circumstance. Example:

Why are you a professor? - (Reason) Because I like teaching.

(Cause) - Because the University offered me the job.

kaveetaa,

The cause of our existence is Free and Endless Choice without any need for reason. It is your mind that is the reasoner, what is the source of our existence is beyond reason. Quieten the mind and you will know and sense this source.

JRR Tolkien once said " The word is not the thing"
and he is right The word is not the thing the word Reason has a different meaning to you than does for me and it may be slightly different for the next person.

Craig, I enjoy your postings and anybody who writes with that much sincerity does not have to apologize to anybody. You did not offend me. Keep up the good work but look after yourself in the process.

I need my “Latin breaks” and thought one of those would help you too!

Respectfully,

Hansjörg

Do you practice
What Bible teaches?

Did Jesus practice
What he preached?

Did he not preach
Peace in Matthew?

And then murder
He preached in Luke?

What does your church preacher say?
What does your head's gray thing say?

Keep focused here, don't stray
Lest you don't know what you say.

PS: Those who have missed the thread, please read Deepak's post, and my earlier comment in entirety.

Simon,

you said "The cause of our existence is Free and Endless Choice without any need for reason. It is your mind that is the reasoner, what is the source of our existence is beyond reason. Quieten the mind and you will know and sense this source"

How can the mind be the reasoner and not reason? How can there be choice without reason? How can you quietenthe mind without reason?

Once we know the cause,there will be no effect. there will be no mind as reasoner or to quieten.Till there is choice thereis me. There is nothing like a free choice, independent of reason or me. To kill that, kill this first.

Well said Kaavetaa, I was about to say this: "There is nothing like a free choice...." We can't choose out of the blue without any ryme or reason as they say.

Hi Tanzan,
On “trash talk day” you discovered that someone was posting something that was written and signed by someone else. You let us know and I for one am very grateful for that.

On your Jesus quotes in this posting I would ask, has anything that Jesus said or wrote ever been signed by Jesus? If not, who knows what he said and what some overzealous fan or translator added?

I don’t want to warm up “trash talk” but that day I posted:” "Please forgive me, but I ask this question with an open heart and sincerity: can an Astrologist be a responsible journalist?"
~Skeptisch

One of the responses I got was from the person it was directed to. She wrote:” can astrologers be good writers? Sir Arthur Conan Doyle was one and one of the biggest believers was Albert Einstein.”

I always thought there was a difference between a writer and a responsible journalist! And what exactly was the connection between good old Albert and Astrology? Maybe someone can enlighten me?

My opinion on “can an Astrologist be a responsible journalist” is, with difficulty. If you sincerely believe the stars influence our everyday life, would they not also influence our judgement and reporting?

There are so much intellect and command of the English language on these blogs and maybe someone can rephrase what I am trying to say here? Thanks!

Harb,

Thanx..as long as there is duality, there is choice, reason, cause effect. When there is none , for sure, I will not be here to proclaim my choice or my mind and its reasoning. It will be meaningless and redundant. The difference between 'believing ' and 'knowing' is the difference that finally opens the door to freedom.You know what I am expressing Harb.

You are inventing my words for me kaveetaa.

Ovcourse you have Choice and the freedom to choose,There is ovcourse Cause and effect as I said at the beginning of the discussion. What I am telling you is that there is no reason for it.
People are under the Illusion that there is a Reason for their existence and that there is a reason for them being alive, that is completly false, there is no reason for life, there is no reason for anything. reasons are what the human mind seeks for everything, the searcher looks for a reason to themselves.

If you belive that you exist out of destiny or that you were destined to be or even that the Human race was destined then you are living a Lie.

The truth is that all things are endless possibilities that have came to be out of chance, out of the free will and choice in the field of all possibilities. There is no destiny, there is no reason, there is only the now, now is where the divine is and now is where everything is created.

and there are no reasons for any of it.

I know you find that hard to belive, but that is your Ego not where I am at....your understanding not mine.

I Know truely that there is no need, no reason for where we are and what we are doing, but that is not disheartening because it is the knowledge of a free and ever changing universe with no reasons, no boundries, no deliberate action but the endless flow of effortless possibilities.

Understanding is not always something you can grasp with your mind, direct experience of something can give you more than a mental grasp on reality.

Maybe you think i am mad for saying there is no reasons for anything that exists, but I really don't care if you think I am mad, I am telling you how it is, and you can do with it what you like.

Simon, if you are mad, so am I and so are many more!

'...no deliberate action but the endless flow of effortless possibilities..'
Posted by: Simon_Freejohn

And then he created Eve.
Amen.

Anyhow, indeed my spiritual bud, it is a re-creational universe,
and an A+ on your spiritual homework,
I'm out to the pub, see what kind of, non-spanish sweeties I got in my little candyshop,
call happy hour,

With Love, Passion!

'..Maybe you think i am mad for saying there is no reasons for anything that exists, but I really don't care if you think I am mad, I am telling you how it is, and you can do with it what you like..'

Nice exonaration clausule, Simon, ;)
No need, for the truth,
but in anycase, call me Polish ;)

With Love, Passion,

You are right Kaveetaa.

At the stage of non-duality we will no longer be in the picture. Or we may be in the picture only for others and that too only apparently. Wise say we are then like a burnt up rope which has yet not lost its form. To others it looks like a rope to itself it is nowhere now.

And yes, it is an experiential something. Where the knower, the knowing and the known all become one. Or a state of knowing rather by being.

it is Funny Harb, the things you say.

The person whom taught me or showed me or gave me much of my understanding used to think just like the way you think in your posts. It was through him I learned or knew that there is no reason for the world.

He also said at a later time in his Understanding maybe because he was dying that we need to have a reason or we disappear. he said we need a reason for being or the being will vanish.

He used to say some funny things...your energy reminds me of him a lot. I remember he used to say to people, well males "Don't Wank yourself!"... he would always say that to men who were interested in meditation and self discovery, he used to say look the first thing you gotta stop is wanking..and I used to be creased with laughter. He used to say this because Male sperm is the same fluid that your brain is floating in, and he said that it effected you spiritualy...made you less aware.... I dunno I am sure he was right... he knew so many things. He had lots of great sayings, you would have loved to have known him... he was a real Nisargadatta Maharaj Follower, a wonderful understanding of the universe he had and to be in his company was like walking 3 feet off the ground.

Hey Marek....Stop Wanking yourself!!! LOL

HaPpY BiRtHdAy HaRb!

Wasn't sure where to post this; and being as you are responding to this blog; here's a b/day card I'd made for you!

http://xs60.xs.to/pics/05511/harb.bday2.ds.jpg

also, posted with birthday wish; at SpiritsoftheFourWinds.

North

simon,

Why does the tone suddenly have to get confrontational and aggressive?

I have quoted you and answered directly, without any verbal pirouettes. I am not trying to imply , you tried it.

If anywhere, I see you coming from ego and speaking from there, even in a post.

If nly you had read between the lines where I said that there is a difference between believing and knowing, perhaps you would have intuitively realised that I speak from knowing through direct experience and not erudition.

Why does it have to be 'your word against mine'or vice versa? If you were as clear in your thinking as you profess to be,then in place of what seems now as a passionate need for proving supremacy of views,could have been instead acceptance of anothers' perspective, if not agreement.

As long as each is striving to be good, For me that is a clear sign that he is on the right track. Why bother about the veracity of claims. They are only those finally.

Quoting Kaveetaa, "simon,

Why does the tone suddenly have to get confrontational and aggressive?"

Kaveetaa,

Simon probably just returned from his favorite watering hole! I won't be bothered by anything our resident joker says! It may be a little highchair syndrome, you know! LOL!

Heavy D.

North, Simon,

North, So much thanks for the happy birthday. And for the beautiful card.

Hi Everybody, nothing to mind if anybody has not remembered my B'Day. I assume that you all have sent me happy Birth Day wishes. You just forgot in the rush of things. Moreover, I do not attach much importance to my B'Day anyway. Nor even celebrate. Who was born, who dies?

Simon,

What is the meaning of the word 'wanking' and what was the name of the person you learnt from? was he Bubbo Free John?

Thank you.

Harb

I support Simon's words that there need not necessarily be any reason for our existence. People who claim to be know alls and who are accusing Simon of having a big ego are the ones themselves trapped in their own ego. People who publish on this board stories about their kindness and the charity which they did are the ones who need to do some introspection.

What makes you so sure that humans have souls and the rest of the animals on this planet do not! It is the height of ego to believe that we are any better than the rest of the animals present on this planet.

Cheers!
Navin

Harb,

Many happy returns..I am sure you undrestand that good wishes for you are prennil and not limied to just this day.. You are a grown man now Harb, stop chasing..LOL

You are funny too..Bubbo Free John!!(giggle)

So many typos!! what is with me today!

Perennial and understand and limited.

What prompted me to type and make juice for hubby and eat all at once??

Intentblog is getting to be a major addiction..Hmmm.Crazy .

Skeptish,
"She wrote:” can astrologers be good writers? Sir Arthur Conan Doyle was one and one of the biggest believers was Albert Einstein.” "

Posted by: skeptisch at December 18, 2005 10:32 AM

****

Since you addressed your post to me, I feel obliged to answer it.

Bible was composed by many followers - believers -of Jesus, centuries after his going to
heaven to be with his Father. Christians tell me he will remain with his heavenly Father till his second coming. And then he will raise all the dead, buried Christians from their graves. As to the actual words of Jesus in the Bible, I think your guess might be as good as mine.

Regarding Albert Einstein being one of the biggest believers in Astrology, I do not have much to say. I very likely missed reading the post/comment from where you took it. Whosoever said it, I believe must have checked that it was true and Einstein did say it or was quoted saying it by someone, somewhere. Or possibly some body just made it up to support his/her writings. Or somebody perhaps does not know the difference between Astronomy and Astrology as understood by scientists.

I think the best thing would be to pose this question to the one who originally posted it. I am sure the owners of Intentblog would not like to see their site being misrepresented or ridiculed in the world of media, unless it was just a personal opinion of somebody here.

PS: I will be mostly focusing on some selected blogs, including all blogs of Deepak Chopra and Shekhar, and will be ignoring the rest to avoid any unnecessary disagreements where emotions of people get flared up in a jiffy and they feel hurt.

Kaveetaa,

Seems it is that cold juice in winter...LOL

BTW, I did not chase I sincerely wanted others not to bother...

Thank you all the same...

And oh yes, this Intentblog saala to afim vangu lag gya lagda..

Simon, Kaveetaa,

Perhaps both of you are right at your places:

If we speak from the 'Universe as a Whole' point of view, yes, It just is, It has no reason for its existence.

Now, if we speak from the point of view of separate entities in it, from the point of view of you and me and all others living and non-living included, of course 'within' this, then each of them have a reason for their existence, have destiny and all that. Nor they will then have free choices because their choices are then circumscribed by the reason of their being there at that point of time.

They began from a certain point because of a reason behind, they will evolve step by step because of the reason behind and they will end at a certain point because of the reason behind.

Universe as a Whole or Totality or What Is Is or One or Absolute or God can only be known through direct experience, that is, through BEING it rather than through a study based on reason or analysis.

There are many other things within like love-at-first-sight, sleep, etc which can also finally be knonw only through being them, that is, through their direct experience.

All other things are known through senses, feelings, intellect or reason or mind.

These are my funny bits.

Only this much Geeta
for a glass of juice kaveetaa.

Harb

Hi Harb,

Since it is your birthday today , you definitely deserve more than that. A warm hug and wishes for a year ahead posts.

I do not like to get contentious basically over issues which do not bring out the best in us. Sometimes we are obliged to reply since we are sure of the veracity of what we claim is "our truth'. If it is truth it needs no validation.

Like I said in the last para of my previous post, as long as it is a search for growth and betterment and for our good, then that is all that needs to be considered. We have not seen the ultimaate so why conjecture? I only speak from what I know. I am sure Simon too speaks from what he knows. Why not accept, if not agree? And then alternately,how does it matter whether anyone agrees or not finally. Nobody has the power to take away my bliss from me , until I do not permit it. I , on my part do not wish to deprive anyone of theirs. I judge ideas and events on the basis of whether they are life giving. I prefer to give assent to that which promotes humaneness and kindness.The others' I prefer to ignore. Even Jesus had to suffer the cross over sceptics. Who are we? Only the morally weak feel compelled to defend or explain themselves to others. Bottom line is we have to trust nobody and nothing but ourselves and ceaselessly watch over our beliefs. If i see the conversation around decaying into palaver , I prefer to remain silent.

When we remember that our aim is spiritual progress, then it is imperative to be our best self at all times. Happiness is the goal and for me can be achieved only by being focussed.

As long as Happiness remains a "goal" and people have to stay "focussed" to achieve that goal, there will be strife in human beings, both internal and external. Happiness is a state of being and not a goal. LOL. It is more important to be our "natural self" rather than being our "best self". Moral codes and good manners are secondary to being true to oneself.

Cheers!
Navin

simon...
whaaaaat..?

you crack me up!
on the kundalini thing,
in CwG, has some nice new insights,

Harb, happy birthday!
Na Zdrowie!

Love, Passion!

HI Harb, you are most welcome; glad you enjoyed the card; and happy birthday once again!

North

Thank you marek and north.

North, shoot from the hip for your health. You WILL recover. I agree with each word Sunder has said in Reiki thread. Best wishes. I too will write more.

Harb.

People are often unreasonable, illogical,
And self-centered;
Forgive them anyway.
If you are kind, people may accuse you
Of selfish, ulterior motives;
Be kind anyway.

If you are successful, you will win some
False friends and some true enemies;
Succeed anyway.

If you are honest and frank;
People may cheat you;
Be honest and frank anyway.

What you spend years building,
someone could destroy overnight;
Build anyway.

If you find serenity and happiness,
they may be jealous;
Be happy anyway.

The good you do today,
people will often forget tomorrow;
Do good anyway.

Give the world the best you have,
and it may never be enough;
Give the world the best you've got anyway.

You see, in the final analysis
it is between you and God
It was never between you and them anyway.

-Mother Theresa

Harb, Many Happy returns to you dear Brother, The word Wanking means to spill your Sperm Unnecessarily. Very bad idea if you are on a path of spiritual understanding I am told. Maybe Deepak can shed some light on this subject, not that I think he is a wanker you understand! but he is a doctor and I am sure it has crossed his thoughts at some point.

kaveetaa,
Please accept my appoligies if at any point I have come accross as being hostile or inpolite with my words, that was not my intention.

Kind Regards

Simon xx

Thanks all for your replies. You were all very kind.

You'll notice that I use no pseudonym to identify myself, so the leaving of posts here is a little like getting a tattoo on my face or intentionally leaving a piece of DNA evidence behind.

So I appreciate the sensitivity with which it was encountered and judged in the public arena (which may be the only arena there is anyway if you think really, really hard about it).

I know someone caled Dana Shields! small world

I Can't think as hard as that Dana! come on it is Monday you know!

xx

LOLOL

Awesome website, Simon_Freejohn. And pretty funny as it relates to our interchange.

HI Harb, thanks; but, at your own leisure ok?

I have to recover Harb; I have too many depending on me; to go too soon. (gentle smiles)

North

In the United States, everyone began buying yellow, magnetic "ribons" that say "support our troops." ("Tie a yellow ribbon round the old oak tree"...which has since become "slap a yellow magnet on your SUV".)

***Sure is revealing that as they age, they're all turning white***

Thank you very Much Dana Shields,(you know it has music on it)
If you have any ideas of how to enhance it in any way then please let me know. I havent spent much time on it of late as it was a bit of a rush Job for Deepaks Birthday...but I would like to maybe change it a bit if anyone has any ideas???

Love xx

Shirley,

Your Critisism of me is not Constructive Critisism, so Unfortunatly my dear friend I am going to abstain from any reply. maybe next time Buddy.

Peace be upon you xx

criticism... even

and I thought I was perfect!! LOL

Revenge isn't easy, it sows seeds for the future, bad ones, for those who seek revenge, hard work.

Dear Simon,

Generally we are all doing the best we can. Let us put it behind us. No offence meant, no offence taken.

Nice knowing you.

saskcarp,

There is no future, the future, the Past, is here in this second... in this Millisecond, right here and now. The experience of the past lives here in the Now....observe that..the experience of the future is here in the now... observe that... the Now is where we create, the now is where the Universe is unfolding, the now is all that is and where we are.

Be here in the Now.... keep your awareness in the now... there is no 2 seconds from now there is just the living divine which is being experienced now and is beyond the boundry of time.

There is only the Now.........

kaveetaa,

Whatever i said to you.... whatever point I was trying to make.... I want you to Know that i was wrong entirely...and that i am full of poo basicaly..... let everyone know here that there is a reason for everything and my opinion was complete nonesense.

and I love you dearly kaveetaa.

Merry Christmas kaveetaa and I look forward to the next time you prove me wrong for it was great.

xx xx xx x x xx xxx x

Simon,

Thank you for Birth Day Wishes!

As for wanking, it is not a bad idea in the sense it is generally and, to me, erroneously understood.

You will not advance on spiritual path or have highest experience of spirituality just by avoiding wanking.

The reality is that YOU SHOULD BE SO DYING FOR THE HIGHEST SPIRITUAL EXPERIENCE, NAY, NOT EVEN FOR THE HIGHEST SPIRITUAL EXPERIENCE BUT SIMPLY FOR KNOWING YOUR OWN REAL SELF THAT THE IDEA OF WANKING JUST SHOULD NOT COME TO YOUR MIND IN THE FIRST PLACE.

There is a Hindi song depicting this sitution: "Ham tumhe chahte hain waise, marne wala koi jindagi chahta hai jaise..."

[I need you in the same way a dying man needs breath.]

Now ask a dying man if he can think of wanking when he is dying...

Of course, such things are for the masters themselves. What they can say to others...they will have to say just avoid wanking...

Anyway thank you for giving me the chance to explain myself a bit. All in the scheme..lol.

Harb.

I Understand what you have said Harb, thank you for your guidence.

tx Bob Fisher for a lovely share of a fundamental karmic law...

nice post harb....thankfully some of us circumstantially address this need of breath...within...it is almost like a divine conspiracy pushing us towards the need to discover for ourselves...somehere follows maslow's laws too...and when a "need" arises , i have seen all the forces in creation work towards facilitating an addressal of the need...
marne wala koi....for some of us, we expereince death and dryness without savouring our spiritual essences...

Sunder,

Yes, in fact everything is happening on its own on the eternal cycles of Big Bang to Big Crunch to Big Bang and so on.

The circumstances within depend upon where on the ladder of evolution you are. Then they create the complementary circumstances without to further that evolution. And thus the story goes on...

Those on the cutting edge find what is required there, those a step behind find what is required there and so on.

Harb

Simon,

Merry Christmas :):)

Your post speaks a lot of you as a person.I have not read very many such as these here.

Love

Jesus also said - "Do not cast your pearls before swine" ;-)

my prayer this moment after reading each of your shares..I wish you Jesus:)..from the depths of my heart..to have peace and joy within your souls too..

My Dear Deepak,
I once considered you a wise man. I now must wonder how Christian bashing demonstrates wisdom. Why do you accuse Jesus of succombing to evil. Why do you dismiss millions of Christians who live by the teaching? Can you show me any Hindu who has lived up to the teachings of Ghandi? Are you blessing the acts of all Muslims and finding them free from any acts against the teaching of God? Or are you simply trying to gain their approval.....

One thing that I am sure of, all religions have had their share of offences against mankind. Politicizing does not solve the problem.
Nusharon