"How does a society tackle such an issue?" Mallika

Is this not another way to control uncontrollable rise of population in India, since nothing else works in India? More than a billion already.

T.S.

I have read some of your posts and they are brilliant and a person with average intelligence can not express such brilliance. So comments like the one above are not ones that are expected from a person of your skills. I'm starting to doubt your intentions when I see disgusting comments like this. I hope you will play a role to help get more people to debate on issues that may help find solutions, and not deter people from coming to this forum. I wish I had your kind of writing skills, but I hope you will use it in a positive way, please and thanks.

As far as the article, Toronto based prhabat Jha fro St.Mikes was one of the authors. Nearly half a million girls are aborted every year in India, inspite of laws to prevent it. ITs very high in TN and Punjab. Few years ago I met with several women in palipalayam, TN who had aborted/killed new born girls because they were considered a burden. Palipalayam has one of the highest rate of female foeticide in India.

The most common reason that I heard was pressure from inlaws. The cost of bringing up a girl is considered to be far higher than that of a guy. sexual challenges that women have faced growing up also deters them as they don't want it to happen to their children. Many mothers don't want to kill their daughters, but external pressure and lack of resources to help them from the government put them in a helpless situation.

Several voluntary organizations have done great work, and women are standing up to the issue. Another instesting thing we hear is that even though most cases will be due to socio-economic factors, a large percentage of it happen in middle to upper class families esp in Northern India.

"So comments like the one above are not ones that are expected from a person of your skills. I'm starting to doubt your intentions when I see disgusting comments like this." ~Vijay Sappani

Mr Sappani,

I have no idea of your expectations. I expect no brilliance or idiocy from anybody. And I would not like to say that something which appears disgusting to you is the projection of perhaps dormant disgusting thoughts brewing in some rusting neurons in your gray matter.

I have an opinion to what Mallika posted here. You have your opinion. But your despicable comment on my comment makes me wonder that you seemed to have lost the decency in communication. I posted my comment the way I felt. And I stand by it.

There are parallel examples in nature where some animals species control their population. It appears your knowledge of the world is very narrow. I would not like to educate you by giving examples if your brain can comprehend only trivialities and sees dicord.

TS

Mallika,
Quite timely! Considering that we, in India, are heading for a 8%+ growth, the sensex in heading north and all our economic indices are flattering! Yet, a larger portion(some 400m) of our people subsist on under a dollar a day, have no access to toilets, potable water or housing. To top it all, we are killing our un/new-born women! Helps to gain a perspective in these "India shining" times!

There was this notion about the cause of feticide/infanticide being lack of education or impoverishment. As Vijay points out, it is indeed not reflected in the statistics. So what could be the cause?
My view is that there is a culture of subjugation of women in India in general and this trait cuts across socio-economic strata. The pecking order places women at the lowest end in a Dalit (a so called "low" caste) household as well as in a high-income north Indian family. So what is the core trait in the "culture" that encourages this practice? I think it is the lack of economic freedom that women suffer from. Even in industries like IT, the ratio of women to men is quite unfavourable to women. The economic empowerment gives women right to decide, a stronger voice at home and a direct perceived value among family and society.
It is sad to see, so many bright north Indian girls who excel at study, finally "settle down" with their hubbies (preferably NRIs - Non-Resident Indians) acting out the "ideal role" of loving mom and a homemaker. Nothing wrong in it, unless it becomes an aspiration of every parent for their daughters to emulate, which in most cases is true of north Indian parents. They want their daughters to be well educated, professionals or do well academically, only to play second fiddle to their "well-to-do" husbands. There is a dearth of role models for women in India and the educated, "settled" lot has let down their sisters.
I think it is up to current breed of well educated economically independent women to actively demonstrate the strength of economic freedom, to make decision at home and in the society in general as well.

This may be bit simplistic/opinionated, just my $0.02 worth.

best regards
-Rakesh Mawa

A small experiment that I did at my home was to assure my mom of a fixed income, Dad (post retirement) was acting quite cranky of late and mom was suffering! The first month saw mom buying kick-A sneakers and she started on a fitness regime. The second month saw ma pampering herself with new saree and counting wads of currency in front of Dad. Last heard, mom has grabbed the ownership rights to the remote and Dad is sulking with his made-in-70's radio set while mom cries watching the mush soaps!

Hello. About a year ago, I lost a baby half way through my pregnancy and due to certain laws in my country. I had to go to an abortion clinic to have the baby removed. (It is too long of a story to explain). I mention this is because as I sat there in emotional distress and trying to understand why all these women and girls would want to abort their child. I have always been pro-choice but at the same time I felt as if these outside forces other than the child's spirit were taking action against the laws of nature and God. Yet, in this reality the child's life would be terminated.

In other countries, such as India and China where there are social and governmental pressures to have boys to pass down the family name or for economical issues. I often think these countries are going to miss one huge factor, they are going to run out of women. If there are not enough women, the men of that culture will be forced to look outside their country for a wife-mother of their children. They might just have to search out the women that were sent to a far away land to be raised.

As I learned from my experience, one can never judge or truly know until you walk in their shoes.

Which leaves me with only wishing everyone had the choice. A choice they could make from their heart not their head.

Suzanne

Typo. In my response to Mr Sappani, dicord should read discord.

TS

Very useful post Mallika! Just heard about it!

Strangely, the pressure on the newly weds for a boy comes from the Moms more than anyone else! Thats what is the strangest thing to me! Women end up against their own..

How I wish that those who trek miles in adverse conditions to worship their Devi.. could rever the living one at home and in their womb!

I had written this verse on one Kavita's blog.. reproducing it here since it seems relevant:

Your eyes were my world,
Your smile my existence.

Your milk my survival,
Your blood my creation.

Mother.. today I too was to be one..
But my womb denied the birth of another!

Desh
drishtikone.com

Dear Mallika Chopra,

I too find this report disturbing and distressing.

Why does one have to know the sex of a child before birth?

Though not yet a parent I would have thought that so long as my wife and child to be were not in any immediate danger, then lets proceed with delivery.

Regards,

Trenton James

Desh,

I remember your verses. They inspired me to write the following:

Mother, I Cannot Have One

By your eyes
I saw the the world
By your smile
I learned to live

By your blood
I was born
By your love
I survived

Mother, today I found
I cannot have one
I wanted to pass on
Your love to her

I wanted to name her
By your mother's name
But mother
I cannot have one

Cheers
TS

Our right wing friends have an immediate solution (I miss norm in such discussions). Ban Abortion. Just kidding.

From the Indian context, I only consider

1) Women Empowerment
2) Education

Probably these might work in other situations too. men should stop considering woman as a sexual device and a household device (again talking from Indian perspective). This scenario can be changed by the above two points. As a part of the empowerment process, we need to kick the male chauvinist politicians out and make sure that women get adequate representation in the legislative bodies.

Dear Mallika,

This obviously is a fragile post... for now we enter the domain of changing moralities.

Regardless of what factors propel female foeticide, I find it by far the most disgusting of human cruelties. Why..? Because in the fundamental issue of abortion.. gender should NEVER be a factor. Regardless of ones religious beliefs, the wonder of birth and of the creation of life is one of the enduring miracles of ourexistence..and while one may forever be entitled to debate upon the rights and wrongs of abortion as a concept..how can it be justified on the basis of gender?

Socio economic factors may be a part of such decisions I hear it being said. Somehow the old concept in India of boys being reared to enhance field labour may outlive logic soon enough. As agriculture worldwide (I understand the report is based on world foeticide figures) diminishes in magnitude, as genetic manipulation and technology magnify their relevance, particularly in China and India, the argument that boys be raised to help in the field doesnt hold so good.

As far as family businesses are concerned, I dont for a moment hold that women do not make as good traders or entrepreneurs as men. I find them to be more sincere, harder working and responsible in many a work place.

No... the boy-over-girl syndrome has outlived its relevance and romance. Its time to realise that women are just as good as men in all fields of life, and in many real cases .. far better. Its time to permeate this reality thru the consciousness of the uneducated .. who for reasons of poverty and politics remain inedibly uneducated in all fundamentals of life and efinitions of social justice and gender equality.

If you want to solve the population problem thru foeticide, men make for just as good an argument! If there is no tool.. there is going to be no product. So castration makes as much moral sense as female foeticide.

At the end of the day, lets be equal in our sense of morality and logic and justice. For there are no reasons, economic, population-wise, moral or logical that support female foeticide over male! There are other solutions for the world... gender inequality is certainly not one of them.

Me personally! Im all man!~ But I admire women so much... for what they contribute to our lives! They bring joy to the world, uncomplaining in the burden of their responsibilities of being daughters, sisters, mothers, (yes even as cooks and unpaid housekeepers)...! They bring beauty! They bring softness! They bring life!!!

So why would anyone , mother or father kill their girl child for whatever reason is totally beyond everything I believe in! My greatest regret in life is that I havent a daughter!!

Risking the charge of being unpatriotic I would like to state to all those who talk of India becoming a global power blah, blah and more blah - we may become an economy to reckon with but never a global power centre or a country which others will consider a force to reckon with. Just like we can't quote Gandhi enough we cannot stop talking about our economic growth and fool ourselves into believing we are the best or almost there.

We claim women are the pillars of our society and yet we stoop to the level of petty squabbles over dowry - even in the most affluent families. We treat our women like chattel and take pride in showing off that we have had a woman PM and various famous activists. We still keep insisting that the boys progress with studies, for the girls its a waste because it will be money down the drain once the daughter gets married. We have doctors (our educated elite) who still perform sex determination tests (just last week a doctor in a govt. hospital was caught in Pune) even when these are banned in order to prevent female foeticide. Women labourers are not payed the same wages as men for the same performance. The poor have to take loans to marry their daughters. Who will recognise us with such examples of our greatness?

Some may quote this very blog as an example of how wrong I am in what I have said. I say that these examples here are the exceptions and besides most are not Indian nor are they living in India. Would I be wrong in saying that if a poll of the entire country were held, those who consider a girl child a blessing and a joy would not exceed 10%? Things are improving, I don't deny that, but at a pace slower than a snail's.

Mallika: My intuitive sense follows along the lines of what Suzanne has put forward in her post; and you both would certainly "know" better than I, why this pattern of "female foeticide" continues, and is even accelerating, in so many parts of the world.

Clearly, the "educated and logical" part of our minds cannot really suggest a valid reason for this continued behavior that indicates males are of greater value than females; and actions speak a thousand times louder than words, about the truth that this is so.

Is it possible that the educated women who actively make a statement, such as the action of aborting a child based on the fore-knowledge of the sex of a child indicates we are indeed dealing with, would be that the mother herself knows the realities that a female child would be facing in her culture, as opposed to the "welcoming" a male child would nearly be guaranteed in that same society.

Is it not possible then that the mother herself may, at least in part, be making such a decision based on the notion that it is "better to have not lived, and not loved," by bringing in the female child, than to watch that child grow up to be considered only as a "second class citizen," and be tortured by witnessing the degradation of a child that mother does love?

The message is then to the God who sends this child in through this mother: In this world, "inalienable and unalienable" rights to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" are not equal, so "send me a boy child" that at least can have a chance for love, prosperity, and happiness--one that can be fully loved without fearing the loss of, or the degration thereof in this world of "caste--or 'class' systems." And So Be It.

We are now struggling to emerge, as a global race that can no longer justify our actions, words, and deeds by the tenets of isolated "local tribal" ways.

Our collective history, known or unknown, has spent the last 6,000+- years under the male-dominated mindset of warring and tyranny over any other "creatures" who appear unlike the tyrants themselves--ie., "might makes right," and as "A Course in Miracles" asks, "Would you rather be right, or happy and healthy?"

And both our local and global health clearly reflects our choices to date.

We also know, from the success' of the few matriachal societies that have weathered the onslaughts of the vicious and primitive mindsets that have currently brought all of our civilizations to the brink of self-annihilation, such as the more isolated South Pacific Maoris, that matriarchal societies have no rape and very little in the way of violence, relatively speaking, and their community ways do not return violence with an "eye-for-an-eye" solution.

We are at a turning point then, where the "old ways" of the past six millenium are giving way to a greater intelligence; one that knows what it is doing regarding the guiding of human evolution out of it's darkness, and onward to our greater potentials of "happiness, health, wealth, and wisdom"--but the male-dominated ego-mind does not give up it's ways easily--and it may be that it gets worse for a little while longer, before the looming storms of humanity's collective insanity clear away, to reveal a world ever-greater than the annals of human history have ever yet recorded.

Is it not strange beyond reckoning that this planet earth, the heart plane, is one that is known to be a principality of quantum physics that is governed by the feminine yin-energies, such as magnetics, and gravity.

Is it also not strange that women's physical systems are, on average, able to withstand pain to a degree nine times greater than the average male--for "child-bearing" reasons!!!

And even here in America, women own 55% of all wealth: it used to be just through inheritance, but is now gaining ground even upon that mid- 1990's percentage due to the number of women elevating themselves, and each other, through the "glass ceiling" of the American WASP heirarchy?

One of the great travesties, that is likened unto "collateral damage" regarding the cost to individual women for perpetuating the upward momentum of women as a whole, is that they have at times, unwittingly assumed the mindset of those that have oppressed them.

I am, as a male chauvinist then, sad to see women taking on the "business suits" of men, to feel as equals to them in corporate board rooms.

Women are too beautiful for this most-boring-of-attires!!!!

Mallika: I have once caught only a glimpse of the tigress that lives within the heart that fuels that most intelligent "Kellogg School of Management" mind of yours; and I say, woe unto that male, tiger or not, who ever would be arrogant and self-assured enough to challenge that Bengal tigress within you--particularly if it came to the defense of what you hold dearest.

As always Mallika--you touch both our hearts and our minds with your candor and compassion. Dave

I think the problem lies in the way the Indian society sees women. On the outward, it dishes out florid, extravagant tosh claiming enormous respect for the fairer sex but the reality is quite disgusting.

Take North India. Its marauder-legacy places women high up there when it comes to power-show. Raping, molesting them, looking at them as mere sex tools is rampant. I grew up in North India - in a city that knocks-in a top 10 in 'the most important cities of India' surveys, and the women there had it terrible.

They walked with their head down. On pavements; in buses, rickshaws, tempos; on their way to school, college, coaching class; in restaurants, cinema halls, shops, parks - everwhere. Eye contact would spell serious trouble.

When they reached puberty and the physical changes began to appear, it would become disgusting beyond imagination. The sex-starved men - schoolboys, college guys, neighbours, uncles, acquaintances, shopkeepers would start following them, passing lewd comments day and night. Any women seen talking to a guy, reaching home past evening after a day's work was a 'bloody whore'. Being a girl meant living a nightmare.

Take Delhi. Its academically-coerce, aggressive culure breeds a similar point of view. Women are raped, molested in parking lots, violated in moving cars then tossed out, groped at in public places and nothing happens. Justice comes up short to the proportion and extent of the crime. It's not rosy in any other part of the country either.

The mindset never changes because a huge majority of society has been brought up on it. Parents, therefore, don't find the idea of a daughter palatable. The only respite is when one has the socio-economic apparatus to shield the women from the threatening public places, but then such cases are exceptions.

So it's a malaise that will find a cure from an overhaul of society and its values. About time the society came out of its phoney platitudes and did something deeper and definite.

MURDERING GIRLS IS STILL SOMETIMES BELIEVED TO BE A WISER COURSE THAN RAISING THEM…

This phenomenon is as old as many cultures and remains a major cause of concern in developing countries like India and China. It is a brutal method of family planning in patriarchal societies where boys are valued economically and socially above girls.

Sons are called upon to provide the income...in this way sons are looked to as a type of insurance

The combination of dowry and wedding expenses usually adds up to more than a million rupees. In India the average civil servant earns about 100,000 rupees. Given these figures combined with the low status of women, it seems not so illogical that the poorer Indian families want only male children.

According to the census statistics there has been a constant drop in the sex ratio from 1901 to 2001. From 972 females for every 1000 males in 1901, the gender imbalance has tilted to 933 per 1000 males in 2001.
one wonders if we have really progressed...in fields where it is reall needed. the facts say something else altogether.

it is a myth that education solves all problems that we encounter...my observations in India reveal the same deep-seated conditionings manifest in educated spaces...be it domestic violence issues or female foeticide...in my opinion, problems of mental constionings and deep rooted positionalities need a different kind of spiritual process based addressal in healing spaces...

the yearning of souls...

pleading ...

to be risen ...

above their tomstones ...

naked breasts...

shining forth ...

deep inside

this longing

for the milky way ...

each time

I bow

to love

melting me away ...

Dear Mallika,

Even worse that this travesty, is the female mutilation of the genitalia that goes on in many countries. This condemns a woman to suffer for her whole life.

What happened to civilization?

Rakesh Mawa and all,

I don't think that economic freedom is what will liberate women. If anything, economic freedom for everyone will be a result of liberating ourselves from the beliefs that keep us all, women and men, stuck in this cruel scenario. We are not going to see an end to the abuse as long as we don't reconcile the masculine and feminine side in all of us, accepting and cherishing both our strong, direct, conquering nature and our soft, patient, nourishing one.

As it is now, we all inherit a long history of war - thousands of years of resentment, hate and fear between sexes. Our masculine, logical side despises and abuses the spontaneous, intuitive, vulnerable and creative feminine side, while the feminine side believes in its worthlessness and forgets its power. And when we want to encourage the feminine back to its deserved status, we oftent try to do it by aggressively defending or attacking, in other words, by using masculine methods, which only adds to the conflict in our world.

If we want to put an end to centuries of suffering, we have to trust, respect and encourage the feminine power in each of us that knows that forgiveness, understanding, love and peace will create the necessary space for healing and for solving the many problems we are facing. We are not going to be able to fight our way out of this mess. Only by openly expressing our vulnerability, by looking at our own hurt and at the hurt of everyone else, only by really seeing in what way we are all responsible for the situation, can we put an end to the madness.

Dear TS,

I too found your comment to be disturbing and unexpected.

Did you misunderstand Mallika's blog or are you actually supporting selective female foeticide?

To quote Tanzan to Mallika's question:

"How does a society tackle such an issue?" Mallika

Tanzan's response:

"Is this not another way to control uncontrollable rise of population in India, since nothing else works in India? More than a billion already."

Posted by: Tanzan Senzaki at January 8, 2006 08:56 PM

I'm sorry Mallika that you have to read such a response to your obviously heart-wrenching question of female genocide! I had to count to one thousand, to bite my tongue, and loosen the grip it gave me, in my anger!

To allow a person whom supports female genocide and that has been abusing bloggers here since his pop-in; well, indeed Vijay has asked a valid question! What IS Tanzan's intention at Intent? He seems to only attack, degrade, demean and demoralize not only you, your parents and sib; but, the respect and value of female, human life?

Hmm, not sure why everyone thinks Tanzan is intelligent? An intelligent person, would not have said the above, especially "out loud"!

Vijay, good question; I've been asking Tanzan for months now myelt, if his inention was to deter the Intent of this blog? I know I am no joy-presence either, but when does abuse end amongst people?

Why would people come to a blog, which posters are allowed to puke and poop all over others, and others beliefs at free will?

Obviously; Tanzan is only showing HIS true colours - WE all, have true colours. He has spent his entire time on this blog, pointing to peoples inherent human and frail qualities, often taking "away" from the subject on the blog; he's been hurting people's feelings and subjecting them to negative, defense responses?

Tanzan, you arrived to instigate, and help instill what exactly? The only teaching I see you doing really, is since your arrival, been getting away with wryly and slyly abusing people and the fundamentals of decency, respectful space in sensitive areas of abortion and religion.

I have been reading/watching your verbal abuse escalate and I am quite fearful for your emotional well-being.

"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice, to decieve." quote: by an anknown source

please pick apart at will Tanzan, the nits are waiting for you.

Ultimately Tanzan; what you are doing, and others here on IntentBlog like you; are psycho-analyzing people, "without regard or permission!"

Are you trying to start a boycott of this IntentBlog for some perverse reason we are not aware of? Support of female genocide, is not only perverse, it is inhumane. You have crossed that fine line Tanzan.

North

Krish:

I agree with you on this. A lot has changed over the years in the lot of Indian women... but a lot more has to change. Thankfully, the judiciary is with the women. In fact, in some cases it is heavily loaded in favor of women - to my delight! The only problem is that these laws are not implemented in an equitable manner.

I am convinced that like the punishment for rape - of a death penalty ..which was introduced sometime back... this crime also needs to be dealt in a similar fashion!

The result of such an imbalance will one day spell doom for women - who will become targets of sex starved men in a decades time!

Another constituency that we need to bring on the right side of the debate is the religious "gurus" who most certainly perpetuate this by offering "ways" and "means" to accomplish the choice through "extra-terristerial" methods! This thing needs to be stopped AT ALL LEVELS!

TS: There are better ways to control population... censoring a Mother's womb cannot and should NOT be one of them! Your comment disturbed me a lot this time!

Desh
Drishtikone.com

Dear Soultrip, Amen. You said this:

"They walked with their head down. On pavements; in buses, rickshaws, tempos; on their way to school, college, coaching class; in restaurants, cinema halls, shops, parks - everwhere. Eye contact would spell serious trouble.

When they reached puberty and the physical changes began to appear, it would become disgusting beyond imagination. The sex-starved men - schoolboys, college guys, neighbours, uncles, acquaintances, shopkeepers would start following them, passing lewd comments day and night. Any women seen talking to a guy, reaching home past evening after a day's work was a 'bloody whore'. Being a girl meant living a nightmare." end quote.

Hmm, I automaticly tripped down memory lane with those two paragraph's soultrip! men still treat poor women those ways!

I was raised in rural northern ontario, extremely poor, until about age: 14. Being a "poor girl" we young girls walked/lived, much the same way!

As a middle-aged woman with no husband, surviving on a disability, though still legally married and educated with a 4.0; I walk again, much the same way. My only fists and speed; seem to be my quick wits.

I've never had sexual abuses on me, except for being "felt-up" against my will; but, the hungering eyes of boys and men, were enough to make a little girl, want to be swallowed up by the earth, or evaporate into thin air!

A poor girl knows by the age of 8-10, what it is like, to be raped by the eyes of men/boys. We know by that age, we are views as insignificant.

Even as a grown woman, the respect is less than I deserve, and men will hug me, grab around my waist, without permission, hurting my neck/back; with no regard for my respect or safety.

So, I am choice-isolated, except for being President of an Auxillary; I am not out socializing, mainly because of the lack of respect from men, because I am single, disabled, though look normal and quite "cute & sexy", so I'm told anyway. Beauty is a curse to poor women.

In my position as a girl, and as a woman now, both in poor economic states; once again, I find myself wishing to be swallowed up, or evaporate; what a weird circle, men create for us women to live in, and I'm in a rich, modern(supposedly) country like Canada!

North

There are three issues that fuels this trend. One, is a society based on materalism. That puts a higher value on males who are more economically productive than females currently. Then there is the traditional mindst, including our shstras, which state that a man cannot go to heaven without a son doing pinda-daan etc. Thirdly, there is our social system. the much ballywhoed joint-family system, where a woman has to leave her parental home and leave with her in-laws. Naturally, parents value a boy more, because the girl will get married and go away. TV serials like Kyonki Saas.and films like Kabhi Khushi..strenghthen this value system. So that even if a girl is educated and is earning, it is expected that the husband's writ will run in the house, and she cannot keep her parents at the house as easily as the boy can keep his. Without a total culuturtal shift, women will be treated as second-class beings. To quote John Lennon, " women are the nigger of the world. " In diferent ways in different cultures of course. But I would say the Scandinavian countries are the most evolved ones in thuis regard, with their rational attitudes towards sex, their welfare measures suporting women and reducing their dependence on men, with least crimes against women. I acn bet female foeticide is unheard of in these countries or in most parts of West for tyhat matter. Instead of eulogising our traditional culture we should do a little introspection.

Hi Mallika,

Based on my research this practice will lead to WAR and CONFLICT, as if it isn't already the source. It is also a practice that because of it's effects on life will result in natural self extermination of the cultures that practice it, as nature balances herself and rids itself of those organisms that create an imbalance.

In my search to substantiate a collective all pervading intelligence one of my focus area's is this that we speak. It also plays into the solutions to world conflict.

I think it is important to realize that one of the greatest mysteries and demonstrations of collective intelligence is the ratio of male to female births that is maintained by nature even though all conceptions are separate and there are so many factors that affect the results.

I think allowing greed among other things to affect the natural ratio can only result in conflict and destruction.

It is much more serious then we all think.

I will post a second piece on why female dominance and feminine energy is essential to ending world conflict. The secret to achieving this is the same way the Bonobos do and I believe it is already happening in the United States.

Bonobos are unique in that the migratory sex, females, strongly bond with same-sex strangers later in life. In setting up an artificial sisterhood, bonobos can be said to be secondarily bonded. (Kinship bonds are said to be primary.)

www.newswire.pro/bonobo_sex_and_society.htm

If a male bonobo tried to harass a female, all females would band together to chase him off. Because females appeared more successful in dominating males when they were together than on their own, their close association and frequent genital rubbing may represent an alliance. Females may bond so as to out compete members of the individually stronger sex. [this is what needs to happen in Asia ]

Now two political scientists have joined the fray with an ominous argument: Offspring sex selection could soon lead to war.

In a new book, Bare Branches: Security Implications of Asia's Surplus Male Population (MIT Press), Valerie M. Hudson and Andrea M. den Boer warn that the spread of sex selection is giving rise to a generation of restless young men who will not find mates. History, biology, and sociology all suggest that these "surplus males" will generate high levels of crime and social disorder, the authors say. Even worse, they continue, is the possibility that the governments of India and China will build up huge armies in order to provide a safety valve for the young men's aggressive energies.

"In 2020 it may seem to China that it would be worth it to have a very bloody battle in which a lot of their young men could die in some glorious cause," says Ms. Hudson, a professor of political science at Brigham Young University.

Those apocalyptic forecasts garnered a great deal of attention when the scholars first presented them, in the journal International Security, in 2002. "The thing that excites me about this research is how fundamental demography is," says David T. Courtwright, a professor of history at the University of North Florida and author of Violent Land: Single Men and Social Disorder From the Frontier to the Inner City (Harvard University Press, 1996), a study of sex ratios and murder rates in American history. "The basic idea that they have, that in some sense demography is social destiny -- that's a very powerful idea."

Religion and culture that promote sexual repression are the source of world conflict and violence in societies.

What we could call "The Bonobo Way" is a very simple philosophy that we all know deep in our bones, but that we seem to forget in the midst of our busy, lonely, fearful, stressed, repressed, polluted, violent lives:

* Pleasure Eases Pain
* Good Sex Defuses Tension
* Affection Calms Terror
* Love Lessens Violence
* Females Should Rule because feminine energy balances
* You Can't Very Well Fight a War While You're Having an Orgasm

The philosophy of Ethical Hedonism applies the principles of The Bonobo Way to the far more complex, civilized lives of human ladies and gentlemen. Ethical hedonism supports the repression of violence and the free, exuberant, erotic, raunchy, loving, peaceful, adventurous, consensual expression of pleasure. Every day, as ethical hedonists. The Bonobo Way of peace through pleasure. It's a worthwhile path, has occasional potholes, but is lots of fun to travel.

Unlike their close relatives, the chimpanzees (Pan troglodytes) who have a male-dominated, competitive society and actually wage territorial wars against each other, bonobos have a matriarchal culture, bound by cooperation, sharing, and the creative use of sex. Bonobos live in large groups where peaceful coexistence is the norm. Females carry the highest rank and the sons of ranking females are the leaders among males. Alliances among females are the central unifying force.

Bonobos show how a complex society can be ordered successfully by cooperation, rather than competition. They demonstrate many qualities we humans need to emulate to ensure our own survival, and that of our planet.

Dubbed "the sexy apes," bonobos truly exemplify the 1960s credo, "make love, not war." They make a lot of love and do so in every conceivable fashion. Sex transcends reproduction in bonobos, as it does in humans. Bonobos are bisexual, or as psychologist Frans de Waal contends, "pansexual." Sex permeates almost all aspects of daily life. Encounters, both with the same and the opposite sex, serve as a way of bonding, sharing, and keeping the peace. When neighboring groups of bonobos meet in the forest, they greet one another sexually and share food instead of fighting. Unlike other apes, bonobos frequently copulate face to face, looking into each other's eyes.

Bonobo anatomy is strikingly similar to that of our early human ancestor, Australopithecus. Bonobos walk bipedally more easily and more often than other apes. The Mongandu people of the Congo forest tell a story that goes like this: One day, all the animals went to God to ask him to give them tails. God said that the animals to receive tails are those who don't stand upright. The bonobo, along with the other animals, respected this law. When they were coming in line to take their tails, the bonobo felt the need to scratch his back. He forgot God's law and walked as he was scratching himself, standing up on two feet. Seeing this, God chased him and said, "Go away, because you are not an animal that can have a tail. Indeed, you are a man."

The uncommon social structure, sexual behavior, and intellectual capacity of bonobos reveal compelling clues about the roots of human nature. Highly compassionate and conscious beings, bonobos blur the line between animal and human. Much of what we know about the bonobo mind and emotion is thanks to two very special individuals, Kanzi and his sister Panbanisha, who currently live at the Georgia State University Language Research Center near Atlanta. Under the tutelage of Dr. Sue Savage-Rumbaugh, these bonobos have learned to understand spoken English and they can communicate using a sign language. The bonobos speak by pointing to lexigrams or symbols on a keyboard that correspond to words.

Humanity has made brillant advances in technology. We can now "see" the gender of a child before birth. There is a sadness of the heart when we only "see" gender and not the human being.For she may be the one who finds a cure for a disease and saves millions from pain and suffering. The question remains how far have we advanced?

Love to all

North,

With that perspective and projection on the world you are never going to attract nice men to you, I hope that you believe there are some out there.

The thoughts in that post give off a vibration that repels, it is like a self fufilling prophecy.

You know our thoughts especilly when colored with judgment and unforgiveness can really surround us with a negative cloud that produces a nightmarish dream for a reality. Most important is to forgive ourselves so that we might not spend all our time punishing ourselves.

Then again some just like the drama.

How much vitamin C are you taking now?

When borders are gone, nationalities are all considered as one and when we share wealth and love, abortion(in the sense of this blog) will be aborted.

Dear Mallika,
You ask how does a society tackle the issue of female foeticide.
It's really in the hands of the mothers how they raise their sons. If mothers are going to pamper the sons and neglect the daughters, then the sons will grow up to be men who are likely to abuse women, molest women, abort female fetuses. It is women themselves who have to teach their sons to respect women. And the only way they can do that is by treating both the daughters and the sons equally.
Abortion itself is another contentious issue (whether of male or female fetus) as there are two equally important factors involved here:
1.The sanctity of life and
2.The freedom of choice

Love,
Navin

Hi Mallika and all - Thanks for this post and the comments. I remember reading about this topic a few months ago. The highest statistics for sex-selective abortions in India was from Delhi. Within Delhi it was in South Delhi, and within South Delhi it was in Greater Kailash. Among the various communities, Punjabis and Jains headed the list. For those not familiar with these localities and communities, please note that these are among the wealthiest Indian communities living among the wealthiest regions of India. In response to some of the comments about the status of women in India, please do stop and consider a typical Punjabi woman. She is the personification of power. The Jain women too are very strong. So it simply does not make sense to attribute sex-selective abortions to lack of power among women, the scriptures (GK women don't care two hoots about the scriptures) or the joint-family system.

I do not have any answers as to why this perception that boys are more valuable than girls persists in India, but I do think it is important to seek answers in the right places. The facts and figures simply do not support the same old arguments about the status of women, poverty, social structure, etc. Moreover, these decisions do not seem to be undertaken under pressure but seem to stem voluntarily from the women themselves. I agree the dowry issue could be a factor, since keeping up with the Joneses is a very typical consumerist trait, specially among the Punjabis. Other than that, it simply boggles my mind. I find it hard to imagine that people continue to prefer boys when eons of history have demonstrated that it is women who do all the nurturing right from childhood through old age.

It does make sense that sex-selective abortions are more common among the rich. I don't think it has to do with the availability of technology alone. The poor tend to regard children as wealth whereas the rich tend to regard children as a financial burden. Perhaps we need to launch a massive awareness campaign among the so-called sophisticated Indian set. The sex ratio is becoming so skewed that their poor sons will soon find it harder and harder to find mates.

Dear Divya, you said:

"The poor tend to regard children as wealth whereas the rich tend to regard children as a financial burden."

well stated.

Richard; by implying the drama scenario, you then give less power to my plight as a women, by insinuating it's a "mental state fault" and not giving the due exclusive negative behaviour to the men/culprit? lol I"m afraid, vit.C would have NO effect in this regard when met with that kind of response.

What you said is no different than telling a woman whom was raped b/c she was beautiful in that dress; that it was her fault.

North

Dara, well said.

Desh, I agree with you

"The result of such an imbalance will one day spell doom for women - who will become targets of sex starved men in a decades time!"

Actually I somehow think that we are already starting to feel this effect due to skewed up male-female ratio.

North,

There are a large number of successful women, at least where I am at, so apparently they were not so disadvantaged as to render them incapable of success. I agree it can be more challenging for women and perhaps more so in some areas especially socialist countries.

It is harder for women and especially single mothers, and it can be a struggle I think this is an issue we need to address as a society. I know many single mothers who have succeeded against the odds however; they did not let the rough situation stop them.

I was simply telling you how you how your energy affected me, it has nothing to do with you; it would tend to drive away rather than attract.

“raped by the eyes of men/boys”

how about,

“so attractive the guys couldn’t keep their eyes off of me”

Dear Richard; my perspective on life were not born of my choice; it was planted there by other people along the way that subjected me to "their chit."

Yes, it sounds cold and bitter; but Richard, have you ever been sexually abused, felt-up, and raped with a man's eyes, trying to struggle from their grips when you were only 10, 12, 14? IF you answer no, then you cannot possibly know what it is like. It only happened to me once, but once is enough to change anyone's heart/mind/spirit into one of mis/mal-trust from then on.

Why do I have to ask forgiveness from abusive men for being pretty and sexy, and they can't hold self-control? I wear baggy clothes, no make-up, skirts or dress's! I am trying to make myself as wall-flower plain as possible, but it seems to attract them more for some perverse reason; so it doesn't even have anything to do with makeup and clothes!

It's not like I walk around thinking through life daily about all of my negatory past experiences even; but, reading social issue's pertaining to my life on this blog are everywhere, as the issues are everywhere.

I've had severely clearly more personal experiences since my birth in a lot of areas of life first-hand, regarding many of the issue talked about here on the blog; my knowledge is not just studied in books and class's from.

The men whom grab women, are not bar-type slobs in my life Richard, I go to a bar 1-2 times a year; they are usually married men and high-rank officers just like me, "but" at business meetings, etc.; I'm at the top of the ladder for bleep sake, being President of The Auxillary, and like Dangerfield, still can't get no respect.

bottom line, it's a man-thing hon.

North

Richard, you said:

"I know many single mothers who have succeeded against the odds however; they did not let the rough situation stop them."

so, NOW you are implying I stopped trying? where do you get off ripping into me the last few days Richard, with your psycho-analysis of me? You don't know me any more than you know Deepak or Mallika; so how do you presume to judge me in any form or slight?

Richard, you don't know me except by what I post here in response's to issues. Please don't pretend you do; we've never even privately conversed by email??

I suppose then Richard, to put it bluntly; the single mothers you did know whom succeeded against all odds, were not diseased with:

thoracic outlet syndrome, atrophic gastritis(dead stomach), chronic fatigue syndrome, arthalgia, open-angle glaucoma, exposed nerve in the elbow for two years now, buggered up shoulder, two years, foot, same thing,,,on and on.

you see, IF I did not have all this, I would most likely succeed somehow/where too? but, I do..

so it is not a personal failure Richard. It is a societal failure to ensure educated disabled people in the rural north can find suitable work; if not, provide at least a decent social income?

Factor in, small town, nepotism, and well, voila'.

IT has nothing to do with "my" attitude Richard; but, rather societal failure to provide work for men and women such as me, and as far as success goes; being President of 60 women or more while dealing with above inflictions; isn't too shabby is it; or having 30+ articles published in newspapers isn't a success? I've also been a figure-head for another group, for eight years!

At least I am a pillar for my community; not just a financial drain, "because" I keep trying! Once a woman loses social capitol(contacts) she's doomed.

I'm saddened to read, you see me as a failure Richard, because I sure don't see me as one; nor as a giver-upper?

So, being as you don't know me at all, I would suggest you save your cheap psycho-analysis for people that you do know personally enough to make such blatant and empty assumptions against; because i have not given my permission for the psyche treatment?

You are now acting/talking just like Tanzan and Navin in this way?

So, please seek within yourself Richard; and ask yourself "why" am I riding north lately?

North

Mallika,
I wrote this almost 5 years ago...when i read in Indian express that 75 thousand female fetuses were aborted in 89's after the introduction of amniocentisis test in India.I would like to share something i wrote then...its long..so i'm not sure if its ok to post long response

Lost In the labyrinth

Mother’s day is in the air, cards, gift baskets and every conceivable gift items are on sale, big stores are having sales; even the grocery stores are putting their two cents together. May is a month associated with mothers and motherhood. Mother’s day has finally arrived and who knows it might give a boost to passive consumerism and economy will look up. Back home in India we never had mothers day, which was somehow started in late 80’s and early 90’s.Card companies and gift shops lapped the idea, so ninth May was considered as a mother’s day. In cosmopolitans this day was celebrated and moms were appreciated for their sincere efforts. All this change somehow never changed the position of a girl child in India. Cosmopolitan Indians are shocked when they are questioned about discrimination against women; furthermore, they voice their opinions vociferously and I remember that I was of the same breed. Middle class, which believes in equality. I was proud of the fact that I’m a woman and never had to face discrimination.
I remember five years ago it was the month of May; I had a colleague we were never friends but were casual acquaintance .She was looking sick and her eyes were swollen, so I inquired about her health. She broke down, and she cried first they were muffled sounds, her body was shaking and then like raindrops her tears fell. Sometimes when we are sad or grieving we do strange things, it was that kind of a day for her. She told me she’s lost her baby. I tried to comfort her, “ I’m so sorry you had a miscarriage”. She stared at me and said, “no I did not miscarry I killed my child”. This was my fourth abortion .It was a girl. I already have two girls my husband doesn’t want anymore girl. I felt nauseous, I did not know how to react, I looked at her and the only question, which came to my mind, was, how could you? How could anyone do this for four times and still be sane.
One by one my beliefs were torn and I could feel them crashing down; moreover, till now I thought these things were confined to villages, where people yearn for sons to till their land, a male heir means strength and two hands to work. Educated people are different. Middle class definitely were scrupulous very open-minded, but the truth is, girl child is a bane in India. Most people desire to have a male heir. The statistics’ are horrifying, and the sex ratio is falling consistently in India. The female – male ratio is declining in India, in the year 1901 it was 972 females per 1000 males; then in 1981 it was 935,whereas in 1991 it fell again to 930 female per thousand male. According to an Indian newspaper report published in 1998, between the year 1978 and 1982, by using amniocentesis test 78,000 female fetuses were destroyed. The crux from which motherhood germinates is methodically eliminated with the help of sex determination test. By eliminating one female fetus we are eliminating a beautiful heart that knows the true essence of love and sacrifice. For a mother, love and sacrifice is not a virtue but a way of life.
Spring has arrived and amidst the festivities of mother’s day my heart mourns for the unborn girl child who never gets a chance to open her eyes: to breathe, to touch, to feel, to love, to laugh, to smile, to blossom into womanhood. It’s overwhelming to think that the pure soul never gets a chance: to hate herself at the sign of first pimple, to experience the agony of first love, to admire herself in mirror, to use her prerogative and change her mind, to search for a soul mate, to hear the song of bangles and whispering of anklets, to experience child birth. Amidst the Mother’s day hoopla and hype, I can’t help but mourn for all the unborn mothers, because their right to live was snatched from them just because they were not boys. On a crisp spring day, when I walk with my daughter, counting tulips and chasing butterflies; I wonder where do the soul of unborn girl child goes, and do they think about their mothers on Mother’s Day?

May 2001

Dear Andaleeb,

What a heart wrenching story. Makes me want to hold my two daughters.

Mallika,
This is all sad news. Hard to respond to this kind of information. Abortion of any child is sad to me, but to selectively do so based upon the sex of the child seems even more cruel. I have two sons and two daughters. I've been lucky to experience raising both, but I cannot for the life of me imagine that it would not have been just as much fun to raise all of one or the other.

Peace,
Scott.

North,

I did not say a single thing about you I simply reflected on how what you said affected me, you know the picture you were painting, and so that might help you.

Notice I didn't get all bent out of shape when you said culprit/men etc., because it did not apply to me and there was nothing to get defensive about.

What do you mean "the last few days?" That is either irrational or I think you have me confused with someone else this is the today is the first time I reflected on anything you said for weeks.

I am sorry you live in a terrible place as a victim of society, I pointed you to solutions to your health problems before, and that was why I asked about the vitamin C.

Diseases are not incurable.

It would make a difference to your health then maybe you could move to somewhere like Calgary where there are a few more jobs and some nice guys that are not predators like where you live. I know there are some because I used to work up there sometimes.

But this is not a place to carry on with this.

So I wish you the best and ask for miracles and blessings for you.

Furthermore I apologize for me and the whole entire world and hope we can get our act together so you have a better experience.

While Talking about Women issues and Missing Baby Girls, I am wondering what our people below poverty line are doing to over come this issue.

See this picture of what our women are standing for
http://epaper.tamilmurasu.in/

Check out page 6. If this is happening in a remote corner of a village I can understand. This is in Chennai(One of the four Major Metropolis) and that's too after a record rainfall. What a shame!!

We have vision to make India a superpower but absolutely no plan and no action. (Well there are plans but not at the bottom level) I can only blame these corrupted politicians. If we can't even provide basic necessity such as water how hell we are going to be a super power????.

Probably this is one of the reasons for those missing baby girls???

Yogi Selliah

This is a dramtic high impact flash animation that send a powerful message, and really puts the problems we think we have into perspective.

It is called "The Other Side of The coin"

www.ekincaglar.com/coin/flash.html

It is worth sharing.

Dear Scott,
Its my routine, everyday before going to bed when i go to my daughters' room (when i see my girls sleeping )i pray to GOD...please send girls only to the household where they will be loved and respected...

Its good to know you've two beautiful girls,so does Mallika...atleast God is answering some of my prayers.

Richard, you are wrong - you also gave me psyche-advice unpermissioned-for treatment on another blog, have you forgotten so quickly your analysis's of people?

Your response was demeaning and demoralizing to say the least. Soon as a person admits to a flaw or weakness, a raw experience; they are automaticly broken; and in come the experts, right on schedule; to promote their sites, their mind-blowing visions and educated analysis of everyone on board the blog?

Oh dear Richard; I'm afraid the problem you feel/respond to/with are not mine?

your quote here says a lot about you though:

"Furthermore I apologize for me and the whole entire world and hope we can get our act together so you have a better experience"

Oh, I mean really Richard! don't appologise to me Richard, you have only yourself to forgive for what you say and do; such as I do, for me; so yeah, please get your act together, get off the high horse, it really doesn't become you; and I all shit stinks in the end?

Now, as I said to another man once on this blog; go hit a pillow, it feels great and doesn't hurt anyone.

North

North,

Perhaps your response is the reason your world is like it is, you come across as very angry and you attack someone that means you well.

The thing that bothers people the most about the concept of "creating your own reality" is that it makes them responsible.

You can have the last word if that is what you need, otherwise good luck I have nothing more to say.

I've been blogging here since the beginning almost; seldom posting, maybe a poem here and there. so, having tried walking away, resisting the temptation to get drawn into disharmony, I have to add:

What I have seen occur in the past months, is women being targeted by men. Men begging for pictures from women, so the women stay away rather than have to deal with it. I know, I hear about it. they think I'm the "tough girl" and can help? well, that's me I guess, for sure.

So, I am walking in here, not only on my own behalf; but of many other women bloggers from Intent.

Some women come here to talk issues not deal with bar-room flirts?

married men, are hitting on married women, with little respect for the woman's position.

Now, we have men analyzing women.

Men, suggesting female-fetal-genocide is a good thing, considering over-population.

Now, we see "women" blamed for not raising their sons right.

Well, frost my pickles, let me tell ya!

IF we are to have peace in this world, it must begin with men, period.

Men must stop passing the blame-game on women to begin with, that they probably learned from their fathers and uncles and brothers influences; s'cuse me, Mom was always too busy in the kitchen inventing the wheel!

men need accountability and be held responsible for less than respectful actions against a woman,

treat women as equal beings at home, at work, on the street,

protect single mothers and their children,

and the elderly

from the evils in every town and city

that prey on society's most vulnerable human beings, in every way, imagined.

IT it is up to men, to change their ways;

we women seem to have progressed a thousand-mile-walk in our journey to freedom from the condemnation of being born a female;

in just the past 30 years, let alone the past five years? I would suggest, men catch up, or be left behind womanless and childless one day?

It is disturbing to see lack of female respect at Intent; I came to really admire this blog for that alone.

In just a few months, a few big ego's, and it's all been tainted with disrespect.

Pity really...

North

Richard, wrong again; maybe if a man would ask a woman if she wanted to be grabbed or given psyche advice, he might get a better response?

And ultimately, who said I was looking for a man?

IF I was, I would not be talking about myself so sensitively and privately would I? I would be quiet, elusive, mysterious...put on thick veils and play seductive online games.....

hello? I am here, serious as a man about issue's I've overcome, dealth with, teach others with; and you take it opon yourself to give me sex-doc advice?

One again Richard; whatever I make you feel/react is not me; it is you. Please, don't deny yourself this truth?

North

North,

very powerful words "Pity really" Whatever you said a very sad reality indeed.
men need accountability and be held responsible for less than respectful actions against a woman,

Dear North,
I have had a busy day, and just now, to intent I come, and bear deep feelings upon reading Mallika's post, and the threads contained herein.

There is no hope within the world as created in its present state. This is a general statement. But in duality, this is true. Darkness is ever present.

I have a daughter, whom I love dearly. And to lose her, for any reason, well - I have faced that, as you with your son, and as Moms we know, this is the hardest of all to bear. As your Mom knows, and you have lost a brother.

There is so much cruelty. There is so much beauty. I often just - stand still - and Wonder at it All.

In moments of clear awareness, I see Perfection. In moments, I can close my eyes, and see and feel, God's perfection. Do you have moments like this. It is so nice. And I cultivate those moments, as often as I can remember.

You are an amazing woman. Really awesome. Keep sharing - I hope it will be here. Please know, you have touched my life in a special way.

With love,
~ Kate

Just posing a question: Are these women being in any way intimidated/threatened/coerced into making this decision by their husbands/and or other powerful family member? My guess is that they probably are. Is the husband allowed to dictate what goes on? I do not know. I am just asking.

Although, I agree that there is girl deficit in India, its not same all over the country. Obviously BBC is first to jump the bandwagon and stereotype entire nation.
The report is based on a survey done in 1998, Which means the report might not be accurate.

Sex ratio (females per thousand males) is really high(996/1000) in South India, but in North India its really low.

I hope BBC will do some research before publishing these kind of news/views.

Prasad, we have data from 2001. kerala and Pondicherry are the only two places where sex ratio is decent. Everywhere else it is skewed up. Only Kerala can be considered as healthy. Pondicherry, though it is 1001:1000, it doesn't matter as the population there is very small. Rest of the India is doing pathetically.

http://www.censusindia.net/t_00_003.html

Navin,

With all due respect (and also I liked the content of what you wrote) why did you not mention that it is also the job of the father to teach the sons respect? I ask this b/c--aren't these sons looking at their father as the main role model in their life
to instruct them in how to treat women? I am not trying to villify men--but it goes without saying that there are many many men who are teaching their sons by example how to disrespect and mistreat women. It is time that the finger does get pointed at fathers who are either abusive to the mother or absent in their children's life--thereby teaching the ultimate lesson in disrespect towards both women and children.

Dulcie,
Indian setup is very different...there is no particular system.My co-worker who aborted 4 girls did it as a joint decision.Sometimes women donot say NO.They agree to whatever husband or the in-law decides.
Things are changing,i know lot of people who have one child (girl)and by choice they donot have anymore kids.hings are changing but still a lot more needs to be done...
People see girls as burden because of the dowry and marriage problems.

Hi North,

I second Kate's last paragraph--her words are more clear and consise than mine, so I'm letting you know I agree with her. Remember on my email to you I told you how much I appreciate all of your support you've given me? I still do and I want to express that gratitude at all times to you.

And yes, life sucks sometimes.

But you know, I'm still counting on that ping pong match. I'm serious too--you better be practicing...I however, need no practice! Ha ha just kidding.

Looking forward to your next post North. :)

Love and Light to You

Hi Richard,

Quite an eye-opening flash movie there. Really makes you take a second look at what's happening around the world.

Also, a week or so ago, you posted a link to MayanMajix which contained the Galactic Butterfly--very cool art there, exactly my style. Good info, as well. Thanks for that.

Here is an aticle that might intrest you...
The truth about sex

Rashmi Bansal | July 25, 2005

My daughter casually asked me last evening," Mummy, did you have a boyfriend in college?"

I was -- let me admit -- a bit taken aback.

Of course, I have always told myself, I will be open and frank in discussing anything and everything with her. I won't ho-hum when it's time to have the 'conversation' my mom attempted when it was rather too late. Not that it was actually a conversation.

The gist of the mother-knows-best lecture was: "Boys want only one thing... be careful... save yourself for marriage..." Wisdom from a different time and era, that addressed none of the *real* issues.

So I'm glad she can ask me such questions without a hint of embarrassment. But at 5 years and 10 months of age? Um, I wasn't quite prepared...

Still, I decided to be truthful and said "Yes."

But it didn't stop at that. "What was his name?" she wanted to know.

Here, I ducked -- for now -- by claiming, "I've forgotten his name, beta.... " and she didn't pursue the matter any further.

Why did I lie? Because I really don't have good memories of that first boyfriend. But the relationship did teach me some important lessons that I shall, from time to time, attempt to imprint into her impressionable young head.
It's all about respect

I think the immediate stimulus for Nivedita's 'boyfriend' question was a conversation the RJs were having on the FM radio station we happened to be tuned to:

RJ 1: "Aapka favourite college kaun sa tha (Which was your favourite college)"?

RJ 2: "Mine was Podar."

RJ 1: "Why?"

RJ 2: "Because of the girls, yaar!"

In Nivedita's mind, going to college and having a boyfriend are becoming firmly interconnected. And no, she doesn't mean 'friend who is a boy' (which she has plenty of, already).

This college = boyfriend equation is something picked up from the movies and television she's been exposed to. Not that I don't try to make sure she watches stuff 'appropriate for her age' but hell, even Popeye and Mickey Mouse have girlfriends...

What I want her to internalise is this: It's wonderful if you do happen to meet and vibe with someone in a special way when you join college. And it's perfectly okay if you don't. And that 'everyone has a boyfriend' is not the right reason, at all.

I, for one, know I was in love with the idea of being in love. My first foray into Boyfriendland was an absolute disaster! The bloke was a good looking, crew cut NDA cadet and had a nice bike. But he was an absolute ditz in the IQ and ethics department.

Yet, even when I knew he wasn't quite the guy I should be wasting my time on, it was very hard to break up. Because 'someone' is better than 'no one'.

Which is wrong. 'No one' is better than a relationship that lacks respect.

You might think that this is something everyone knows, but I see many young people stuck in these kind of relationships -- justifying them for this very same reason.

The greatest love of all, as Whitney Houston once sang, is learning to love yourself. And that, dear Nivedita, is what I want for you before you go out and find yourself a boyfriend...

And yes, boys do really want 'only one thing'… I know that statement is going to draw a lot of flak so here's a more scientific explanation.
In the beginning

God -- whichever one you believe in -- created a virus in the image of man. And woman. Now the trick to spreading the virus quickly and effectively was to have it replicate on its own.

So He invented sex. Yes, I will refer to God as 'He' because I think our Creator must have been a guy. Had it been a woman, She certainly would've given us periods annually -- not every month!

But you see, God's primary motive in adding the sex angle was not pleasure but reproduction. The fact that it was pleasurable offered the necessary incentive to undertake the activity.

As an added safety feature, God gave man a reproductive organ with a mind of its own. One that did not always and necessarily obey the commands from the High Command.

This hardwiring has complicated life for Modern Day Man. Say you meet a nice girl, and there is a mutual attraction. The High Command says, Wait! Take it easy. Get to know her. Be a gentleman.

But whether he likes it or not, the 'reproduce' circuit is also switched on and it sends really powerful signals...

Doesn't this also happen to women? Well, some believe it did in the Caveman era, but centuries of social conditioning, Mills & Boon novels and mushy films have had their evil effect. It does look, though, that God must have wired us differently to begin with.

First of all, since women were the ones stuck with the unwanted side effect -- "Badhaai ho, aap maa banne waali hain (Congratulations, you are going to become a mother)" -- they were bound to be much more cautious and see a big red STOP sign.

Advances in birth control have partially taken care of that factor, but it goes deeper.
What women want

The latest on the subject is that, after eight years of tests involving 3,000 women, Pfizer, the company behind Viagra, has abandoned efforts to prove that the drug works for females too.

'It is the confirmation that men have long dreaded. Scientists have concluded that women achieve most sexual satisfaction through the stimulation of their brain and not any other organ...'

The company's exhaustive research has led to the conclusion that men and women have a fundamentally different relationship between arousal and desire. A women's arousal is triggered by a network of emotional, intellectual and relationship-based factors rather than the simple physical response required by a man.

'While a man's arousal almost always led to a desire for sex, there was no such obvious corresponding factor with women... Men consistently get erections in the presence of naked women and want to have sex. With women, things depend on a myriad of factors.'

In early trials where women were dosed with Viagra while watching erotic videos, the drug appeared to work. But further studies found that even though Viagra induced a greater pelvic blood flow, the women did not feel substantially more aroused. Therefore, Pfizer is now concentrating on finding drugs that affect a woman's brain chemistry.

The fact that the earth only moves for women if they think it does comes as no surprise to many leading female sexologists.

As one op-ed writer who was less-than-impressed observed: 'It has long been held in these circles that a woman has an emotional libido. The only surprise has been that it has taken many hours of research and thousands of pounds to conclude something that is blindingly obvious...'

That's why the whole porn industry is geared towards men and the romance industry towards women! As the old saying goes: girls use sex to get love, and guys use love to get sex.
'The One Thing'

The point is that a girl needs affection, understanding and emotion -- after which sex may follow.

However, many young women end up having a physical relationship hoping to get their core needs fulfilled later. Only to find that doesn't always happen. And when it doesn't, it's extremely hurtful and demeaning.

Because the guy may actually just be scratching his reproductive itch, and have no emotions for her to begin with.

Now you may argue that sex will lead to an emotional bonding. Possible, but dicey. Guys do have a concept of women who they will sleep around or 'have fun' with, and women who 'mean more'. Women for whom they feel something in their brains and not just in their briefs.

Even in more 'liberated' countries, the casual and meaningless sexual encounter may be common but not necessarily fulfilling for the woman. A recent report from the UK reveals that, despite the fact that both men and women experience their first intercourse at age 16, there remain gender differences in the experience of the event.

Women are twice as likely as men to regret their first experience of intercourse and three times as likely to report being the less willing partner.

Something to keep in mind before you make your decision...

And finally...

Coming back to my original bit of advice for Nivedita: Make sure your boyfriend respects you and loves you for who you are, not just how you look.

And if I ever have a son I will tell him the same, although in a slightly different way: Make sure your girlfriend is someone you would feel proud enough to bring home and introduce to me.

Someone who makes you feel good -- and feels good.

Not that you won't make mistakes, like I did.

But it helps to know what it is you're really looking for … before setting off to find it in the first place.

Hi Tiffany,

Your welcome. I think the flash illustrates that the world is in fact out of balance, it would be nice if we could fix it because nature has a very impersonal way of bringing things back into balance.

I have been studying that Galactic Butterfly, it is one of the more complex symbols I have seen, and I think there is something more to it then first meets the eye.

Quite nice to see some responsive posts; and no, not "for me" but, for the issue's at hand. IF I didn't think my experience with issue's were important to input; I would keep my secrets and scars to myself. But, to me; these women issue's are more important than my ghosts and my skin.

So, thanks for getting back on topic, and for the nods(they didn't go un-noticed, I'm a born-Leo, sue me?)lol(

Until men change their behaviours toward a female and stop taking "liberties over" them, depowering their respect; well, I"m afraid ladies, we have a few thousand miles yet in our journey towards equality of just being considered "a human being" too, among men.

I have my sneakers in one hand, and oK< my pingpong paddles in t'other!)wink(

North

Scarlett, the attempts and strategies you make with your daughter are to be commended! I celebrate motherhood with you, with all it's thousands of honours and responsibilities in helping mold our children's outlook and approach to peers, opposite sex, community, leadership, etc! I would curtsey; but, I'd prob fall over, so I am tipping my bonnet in your direction, good job Scarllett, and lucky little girl your daughter is.

I have been teaching my son(17) how to respect women, etc. too; how not to succumb to bullies or peer pressures. I started teaching about male/female equal respect, soon as he noticed and asked about the difference's; not an easy challenge, and one that not all parents tend to with great care, unfortunately.

Not having a Dad in the home; he came home one day around age eight, saying women belonged in the kitchen. I noticed little remarks like that. Ooh, I had to become a sly investigator! lol Hmmm, turns out, it came out of the mouths of boys who hear dads and other prominent male figures in their lives say that; I heard it all my life certainly!

Well, that's when the mission was ON, to raise our son more modern and open minded with NO hang-ups about women, being book-ends!

Anyway, he's a gentleman, respectful, well-liked, etc. and one day, I have no doubt, he will be a scholar(smiles.)

Kate, Tiffany - when I were growing up, I wish you could have been there, to be my big sisters; though I wouldn't wish any of the nasty's on yas though...but, just so you could keep helping me see things "clear" about myself. (gentle smiles.)

North

Richard and North: Hello to you both! Just thinking of Richard's "Galctic Butterfly" and had to drop you into this one, if you,ve not already been there yet--and also, take a look at the two links at the bottom of this one--Time's both a tickin' and a changin' Richard--N'est pas!

Be fun if we could make it see that 10/21/2012 "Serpent" slinking around about sunset in MX.

Anyhow: www.aztlan.net/rumblings_enter_galaxy.htm

North--I know many of us over-estimated another round of goofball egotism by being taken in from those who indeed have "the gift of gab," and even a tragically-misplaced gift with poetry, but....give 'em enough rope, and they allows hang themselves, as time will always expose the true nature of one's motives.

Like you, I felt "stupid" for ass-u&me-ing a greater intelligence than was actually present--I thought, "this clown can't hold a candle to the brilliance of Richard's most child-like genius--and I noticed that those who antagonize to draw attention to themselves never take on a mind like Richard's.

And that is good North, because the likes of Richard (whose name, in some explanations, means "Truth") is too busy playing with "new stuff"--funny how it was Albert Einstein who suggested that the only true geniuses on the planet were all under the age of seven!

Seems to me another famous teacher also said something about entering a kingdom, or some really fun place, and that you had to think like a child to gain awareness of "the key," and then have the courage to go "in" and explore!

Thinking of you two--Richard, I think we'll be "hearing" those butterfly wings sooner than "in the twinkling of an eye!" Dave

Dear North,
A small comment -The article I posted was written by “Rashmi Bhansal”. Not me!.. I thought it was rather interesting too!!... I relate to some of her thoughts!

North you r a Strong woman....

the voice of genius ...

so paradoxical it seems to me ...

perls of eternity ...

where ego has no play ...

just this ...

a full breath ...

where time stands still ...

who is here ???

whose voice is this

bringing me to my knees ???

Dear Scarllett, thanks for clarifying that, appreciate it.

Dear Seema; I had to grow up either strong, or broken. I chose strong, but it comes with a few little prices; for me, they were worth letting free; for the benefit of my freedom as a whole woman. thankyou Seema; the males in society around the globe need to mature in thoughts and behavour about/toward women; with their women and children.

North

Will have a look at first chance David, thankyou! I must have missed the butterfly link though; else I would have viewed it too, I love butterflies(wink.)

North

hummm the missing baby girls ...

who knows

where they live

what breath they choose

to ressurect

what is

they stand for ???

the night I spend in an abandoned orphanage...

in Hawaii of all places ...

rain pouring ...

while I danced naked

around the altar of the old chapel ...

listening

to the songs of children ...

calling me

to dance and to rise above ...

so that I may deliver ...

how I treasure those hidden voices

from sacred places

I have no idea ...

collective fragments ...

we have no choice

but to honour all that we are ...

in every deed

we birth...

David, I tried the link and it didn't work.

North

North: Sorry about the link--I wrote "enter" between the two _'s, instead of "center!"

Sooo....it is: www.aztlan.net/rumblings_center_galaxy.htm

Thanks for your patience--just sent my friend Patzi an article about an ecological group in Neveda that is suing the BLM to protect a 1,000 Sq. Mi. area in some Neveda sand dunes, heavily torn up by ATV's, that are jeopardizing the existence of a rare light-blue butterfly that lives only there, as it's food is found only in that one place in the world.

The Galactic Butterfly Richard speaks of, I believe, is an interesting series of gigantic radio-wave pulses emanating from the center of our Milky Way galaxy.

There are two other links attached to that also, that have to do with both prophecies, the Mayans, and the Catholic Church--very "timely" stuff. Dave

Dear North: One day I will share my story with u.My only problem is I can read English,speak little bit but writing is a challenge.May be I will write in Hindi and ask Kaveeta or Kavita to traslate it in English...:-)

If u get chance come to visit America.Right now I am living in Bay area.My work place is just 5 mins walk from Staford university.It is a cool place.U r going to like it....

North,

Your post was a revelation.

I never for a moment thought the developed west was pure heaven, but I could never imagine it was this bad. What you described as your personal experiences on an everyday basis is enough to make any woman feel like she's inside a can full of worms.

That this sort of behaviour comes from mature, educated, married men and not from sex-charged pubescent louts makes this all the more grating.

It unifies women across societies and countries in their misery and puts a lot of cold water on socities across the globe claiming progressive, forward-looking nonsense.

Shame.

all inside ...

very true what you have shared about south delhi and the like, divya...and north, so expressive and forceful...God Bless!!!

David,

That would be fun to be there on that date : ).

I went there a few years ago and climbed and was inside the Pyramid of Kukulcan at Chichen-Itza. My guide was of Mayan descent we had some intersting discussions. Everyone I was with had strange dreams and I had a revelation or two and stuff that that just came to mind from somewhere like everything else does. I just write it.

I don't really think sometimes, I just watch and it tells me.

Sometimes it is just like a computer, I submit a query and it returns a response.

But I am sure everyone can relate, who really knows how memory is resrieved or where from insight comes it sort of just happens.

Oh and thanks for the link I had no idea, that Mel Gibson was doing the movie "Apocalypto" down there.

Funny when I came back from there was when I wrote and started posting Apocalypse / Revelation – The great dissemination of truth and insight that results in the end of the current system of things. I posted this in a number of places where certian people read, including Bill Maher of all people. You never know who is reading this stuff we write and repeating it.

Just a coincidence Mel is down there I am sure...

Richard: That's how you know "that stuff" isn't from the ego mind--it just comes and moves right through, effortlessly.

Samuel Clemens (Mark Twain) used to say he "never worked a day in his life." He'd have dreams, and then he'd have to wake up and write them down.

Richard Bach essentially said the same thing about his writing. He'd be out "barnstorming" and material would come to him, and he'd have to write it down, or it would just keep pushing on his mind until he did.

I noticed you're having a lot of "stuff" happening; like sand materializing! I thought of sending you to Sai Baba's website because his materializations, whether local or at a distance, are often accompanied by a certain type of ash falling away as residue, after the manifestation is fulfilled--the same with his "Holy Oil."

My thought was if it keeps happening around those eight objects, is to relocate them close by, and see if the sand shows up again--either in the old location, or where the objects are relocated to--or maybe it was just....

These kind of inexplicable paranormal events are definitely on the increase, and to the great dismay of very logical, down-to-earth, and well-established professionals who are not known for dramatic embellishments.

Compound that with the normal everyday things that occur, that do have a logical explanation, but we miss it while looking for the "ooga--booga which one of my spirit guides is doing this to me" type of otherwordly assessment. So it gets all jumbled in between the usually-distinct versions of the "two worlds."

With Mel Gibson--is that a "Celestine Prophecy" type of coincidence, or the everyday coincidence that is "just random." The first kind says there are no second kinds--that is--random!!! See you--Dave

posted from today's DNA newspaper:

WASHINGTON: An estimated 10 million female foetuses have been aborted in India over the last two decades, according to a study of birth rates by British medical journal Lancet.

A team of researchers from Canada and India analysed information from 133,738 births in 1997 across India, and determined that fewer females are born as second or third children to families who do not yet have a boy, compared to those who already have a boy.

The statistics according to birth order were striking, according to the study that is being published online on Monday.

The sex ratio for the second birth when the preceding child was a girl was 759 girls per 1,000 males, and for the third child was 719 girls if the previous two children were girls.

But if the previous children were boys, there were from 1,102 to 1,176 girls born for every 1,000 males.

The girl rates dropped even more precipitously for children born to more educated mothers — with schooling beyond Class 10 — where only 683 to 756 girls were born for every 1,000 boys if the previous births were girls.

The data on female fertility, taken from an ongoing Indian national survey of six million people, showed that only 13.1 million girls were born that year. According to natural sex ratios from other countries, there should have been 13.6 to 13.8 million girls born in 1997, indicating a shortfall of 590,000 to 740,000 female babies.

The authors of the study - Indian-origin Prabhat Jha of St Michael’s Hospital at the University of Toronto, and Rajesh Kumar of the Post Graduate Institute of Medical Education and Research in Chandigarh, India, — suggest that the use of widely available ultrasound and other diagnostic tools in India, followed by abortion of female foetuses, explained the discrepancy.

“We conservatively estimate that prenatal sex determination and selective abortion accounts for 0.5 million missing girls yearly,” he said. “If this practice has been common for most of the past two decades since access to ultrasound became widespread, then a figure of 10 million missing female births would not be unreasonable.”

Prenatal sex determination has been illegal since 1994, but the law is often ignored, the study said.

Other statistics supported the finding, the study said. Among children six years old or younger in India, the number of girls per 1,000 boys has dropped from 962 in 1981 to 945 in 1991 and 927 in 2001. The practice of aborting female foetuses appears to be even more widespread in China, where only 847 to 877 girls were born for every 1,000 boys in 2002.

The authors ruled out infanticide as an explanation for the lower numbers, pointing out the wide availability of ultrasound and other diagnostic procedures.

“To have a daughter is socially and emotionally accepted if there is a son, but a daughter’s arrival is often unwelcome if the couple already have a daughter,” Shirish Sheth of the Breach Candy Hospital in Mumbai wrote in a Lancet editorial. Daughters “eventually belong to the family of her future husband”, Sheth wrote.

Andaleeb, Scarlettt,

Extremely thought provoking insights and comments - thank you.

Divya,

This report is predominating the news channels here for the last two days. As you mention, the biggest culprits are the elite, well heeled and educated and that is a huge eye opener for me. I was aware of the problem but had presumed it was more common amongst the poor and the uneducated -how wrong can I get? No wonder the sex ratio is the worst in Punjab. Like you I now need to wonder why that is so.

Dear Soultrip, you write:

"I never for a moment thought the developed west was pure heaven, but I could never imagine it was this bad. What you described as your personal experiences on an everyday basis is enough to make any woman feel like she's inside a can full of worms.

That this sort of behaviour comes from mature, educated, married men and not from sex-charged pubescent louts makes this all the more grating.

It unifies women across societies and countries in their misery and puts a lot of cold water on socities across the globe claiming progressive, forward-looking nonsense.

Shame."
-----
Shame is exactly what keeps us in it, both women and men. We are trapped inside the "can of worms" of our own shame. We are sexual beings, all of us, but we deny it, we refuse to see the absolute innocence of our sexual drives, we label them as sinful and evil and project them on anyone who comes along.

If young men are showing their desire in an obsessive manner, stepping over their own and other people's boundaries, it's because they've been indoctrinated to believe that their normal, natural desire is sinful. If young women feel that inspiring sexual desire in a man is insulting and humiliating, it is because they consider sexuality sinful, and because they deny their own sexual nature.

The more we, men and women alike, deny our normal, innocent sexuality -- the more we obsess and abuse each other with thoughts, words and actions. Stop blaming men, stop blaming women. Stop blaming. Start to look inside, and be honest. Make the change in perception and you won't see sinful, evil people anmore, you'll see beautiful human beings, trapped in their own judgments.

Dulcie and North,

As Andaleeb commented, Indian society society lays the responsibility predominantly on the mother for bringing up the kids. Maybe it is as Divya mentioned "..it is women who do all the nurturing right from childhood through old age."

Navin thus does have a point. However, delving deeper,one wonders whether if it isn't a convenient way of avoiding parental responsibility. The father is the man of the house who slogs the whole day trying to keep his family in comfort and therefore not for him the added burden of child rearing and household chores. It's just not his home but is a holiday home for him! Believe me it gives me no great pleasure to say this as a male representative.

As I was penning this, a pertinent incident came to mind regarding a cousin who married a divorcee with two young boys from his previous marriage. Besides his sons the man's other pride and joy was his lawn - it really was beautiful. Unfortunately the boys did resent the new mom and once in a fit the younger one went and dug up a portion of the lawn - perhaps he was hitting out at his father more. Anyway, when he got home he was shocked and most upset to see it and he asked her what happened. When she told him that the youngster had done it in a fit of rage he went berserk and lashed out at her! His point was that for one he didn't want to be bothered by petty quarrels when he got home after a hard day and also that he certainly didn't expect his sons to be considered orphans in their own home! It was her duty (not his?) to be a loving parent to them. When she asked him as to what reply she should have given - if not the truth - he said she should have pretended that she didn't know. Pertinently too, the man belonged to one of the communities Divya mentioned in her post.

Maybe this is a rather extreme example but I do think it reflects on our society.

very well expressed aurora...the whole notion of sin , by itself is sinful!

Dear Dulcie,
Hi. Mallika has posted this blog in the context of India and the Indian subcontinent. It is in this region that the problem of female foeticide mainly exists. I don't think the western countries have a preference for any particular sex when it comes to having children. Ofcourse, fathers have to share equal responsibility for raising kids and should set a good example for the sons to follow. But you'll have to agree with me that mothers have much more influence on the kids than fathers, and this is specially true in the Indian subcontinent. This is because the mothers in this region are mostly housewives and get to spend much more time with the kids.

And it is the mothers themselves who treat their daughters as second grade family members as compared to the sons, in this region. A mother is the First Guru of any child, so if she teaches her sons to respect women, then that virtue will be with the sons for a lifetime.

I will be travelling again to Bombay from tomorrow, so may not be able to track Intentblog for the next week-ten days. I am in the process of shifting my residence and it is sapping all my time.

Cheers!
Navin

Aurora,

Looking inside, being honest and all that is often put as the ultimate answer to every human problem, some sort of a spiritual jackpot. While it truly is the highest level of consciousness, holding it as an answer to every problem is gross oversimplification.

Not everything in real world functions that easy.

This level of consciousness can not be applied in vacuum. It does need some spiritual leaning and strength. People that I have seen unusually interested in women are far away from making that mark. So what do we do? Leave another women to be groped in the name of a higher spiritual quest?

I agree to your point that this sort of behaviour stems from acute sexual repression. More so in case of India, where the concept of a liberal take on man-woman relationship is still recent. What more, it still doesn't exist outside the 4 or 5 major cities. But even the idea of sexual freedom has got it limits. That my basic instinct is to gravitate towards women can not come to mean that I start groping them in buses.

It doesn't necessarily strike out the concept of 'choice' either. I haven't felt like mating with every single women I have come across, so it does ride on a notion of choice. And if it does, one needs to respect it. One needs to respect the right women have as individuals not to be accosted, felt, squeezed, patted or rubbed.

Just that.

Good point, Navin, about the mothers themselves treating their daughters as second grade citizens. This way the cruel circle just goes on.

And what's this Mumbai thing? So Delhi loses another one to the bright lights... awww come on, reconsider... you get everything in this city, apart from Koena Mitra.

So why?

Dear Aurora,
I may have been able to understand your comment a bit. If you mean that we need to be in harmony with ourselves in order to truly be unable to perpetuate (or accept) this kind of malady, you would be "bang-on"!

The "harmony" thing merits attention in terms of acceptance of who we are and being honest about it. I guess we need to appreciate our needs, physical, psychological as well as a "spiritual" plane and realize that behaviours like chivalry, grace, socializing are cultured ways we interact with each other without intruding into anyone personal space. I think that is the least modern education should teach us.

regards
-Rakesh Mawa

Soultrip,

Looking inside and being honest IS the answer to every human problem. I don't say it is easy or done overnight. But continuing to point fingers will not get us an inch from where we are.

I'm not saying that we should let "women be groped in the name of a higher spiritual quest", as you put it. But cheering on women against men won't do it. We are all part of the problem, both those who grope and those who answer the groping with insults.

We can't request anyone to have respect and maturity until we ourselves have it. So let's work on ourselves and when we change perspective, let's express it out loud, after all, we are all part of the collective consciousness. It is all of us who are stuck in the conflict and every one of us has to examine in what way we are contributing. Maybe you don't assault women on the bus, but you might consider men "a can of worms". Maybe I'm not calling men names, but I might be holding on to the memory of abuse, projecting it on my lover. Maybe none of us is killing female foetuses, but we're both a part of the sex conflict. The solution is not out there. "They" won't change until we all do.

aurora, what depth of communication...tx for teh share

Thanks for hearing me, Sundar :)

Rakesh Mawa,

I'm sorry, I missed your last post. I completely agree with you. One small note, though - I think education is not meant to teach, but to uncover what's already there. When our needs are met on all levels (as you mentioned), we are naturally gracious in our interactions. Thank you for your reply.

Krish

I got the data from the same link and if you observe closely the sex ratio is not that bad in southern states compared to northern states.

The reason for me blaming BBC is that although they are a responsible news agency, they tend promote prejudice in British society against Indians albeit unintentionally. Some of my white friends ask/say some weird things about India and say that they have read/saw the news on BBC.

I come from coastal Andhra Pradesh (one of the states in India) and I've never encountered/heard a family in my community/relatives preferring a male child to a female child, in-fact contrary to that some of my relatives with only male children want at least one girl child.

Dear Seema, I would like to hear your story, so yes, let's see what we can do, to help you get it to me! Sounds like you live in a very nice place too,,,wow!

David, thanks...but, I see,,,you typed North as the poster, in your post? lol,,,great, now everyone will think me and you are one in the same! ahahahahh

Hi SoulTrip - yes, people assume, b/c I am in Canada, a rich country; things are easy...well, not so! lol

Sundar, thanks for the blessing,,,,,I can use it(smiles.)

Dara thanks, very interesting,,,,,,and very typical mannish of men, not taught proper female respect. My ex too, never wanted "to talk" so needless to say; after 15 year, I got lonely in my silence, and fled.

SoulTrip, nice to see comments from a gentleman, whom prefers to treat women with respect! As a high-rank officer, I can't begin to express my anger at sexual harrassment by my male fellow-officers!! Being single woman here in Canada, is facing a gauntlet, everytime we walk out our door, into the "mans world." I hope, to at least make a difference, by raising my son a gentleman towards woman; and not view women as sex objects or house-slaves!!

Rakesh, well said; we must refrain from invading another's personal space! it's common decency and respect. well said!

North

Good stuff you wrote about shame etc. Aurora great insight.

I would also mention a lot of women spend a lot of money and time dressing up sexy and like sexual attention and they enjoy it. They like it when a guy finds them attractive.

There are many people that do not have hang ups about sexual expression.

yeah, Thomas, it's a game, all in good spirit,
though only when you are 'equal' in a true sense,
or like DC's '..to borrow or share traits..'
I've seen too much female manipulation, domination, on a psychology level, to have illusions on that matter,

Though, spiritually, that too must.. in a Vedanta sense..;)

Love, Passion,

NORTH! Awesome! A big sister? That is so sweet of you! We would've had to make sure though first--you know, how well the fiery soul of a Leo would get along with not only one, but TWO Geminis (right Kate?). Wow, North, you'd not only have us to deal with, but our clones as well!

Yes Marek, somtimes I think women have the advantage over men, they control the gate.

They certainly are not all angels either, yet still I would much rather be surrounded by women then men.

I sure hope you are thinking 'bout the gate to YOUR love..;) it's an abundance or allocation thing, Thomas..;)

definatly aggree with you, but that's a different kind of chemistry..

the stories of girls in, female only, sororities, man! I take bootcamp any day!
vicious little creatures they can be..no freakin' kiddin'!

With Love, Passion

Hi mallika, Just returned from India so haven't checked the blog in a while, but your post caught my attention. I just wanted to note that although sharing the sex of a baby is illegal after an ultrasound in India or China (because people there are very aware of female fetocide... now whether those laws are followed is another issue), this is clearly not the case in the US. And there are an alarming number of doctors in North America who are aiming advertisement at the Indian community to provide ultrasounds solely for the purpose of finding out the baby's sex and therefore being able to "sex-balance" families. It's quite alarming and something that we in the diasporic community need to be aware of...

Prasad, I agree that the situation is very bad in north compared to south. But I still feel that the ratio in south is worrisome too. When you see it as the number of girls per thousand boys, it may be small. But the gap is big when you consider the whole population.

Read this

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4601184.stm

Western media and western research groups tend to exaggerate things a bit.

One more thing I observed is that the Indian journo's working for Western media surprisingly seem to think like western journo's.

I have tremendous respect for BBC as a media organisation. They are by far unbiased than any other media organisation when reporting news/views concerning UK, but while reporting world affairs their prejudices pop up.

I don't go by what media says. I go by raw data. Raw data clearly shows that situation is serious. If we ignore the reality in the name of opposing western media, we are the ones who is going to suffer. not them.

Krish

Its not What you and me think, I am concerned about the average person, who doesn't think much before forming an opinion. I agree that the problem is serious, but giving too much importance for a research done in 1998 is not fair. Its been almost 7 year since, I believe there is a change in mindset of average Indians towards girl child.

I have gone through your blog, I must say that I am impressed with your analysis on Hindutva.
Western media claim that there is a propaganda against western countries by Islamists and Communists, but they tend to forget they are also a part of propaganda machinery against Islam and Communists. I believe that there is a propaganda by BJP/VHP against minorities India, but there is also propaganda machinery against BJP/VHP.

"I have tremendous respect for BBC as a media organisation. They are by far unbiased than any other media organisation when reporting news/views concerning UK, but while reporting world affairs their prejudices pop up."

Prasad - the BBC is the biggest dhimmi organization in the world. No need to be that impressed by them.

As far as raw data are concerned, even that has its pitfalls. What cognitive framework compels one to collect a certain type of data? If lobbyists make enough noise about a certain issue, you'll have data about that issue. Meanwhile they may be making all that noise to actually cover up bigger issues. At this point in my life I know what my own convictions are, and if I'm seriously interested in an issue, I delve for my own data. Of course one can only do this for a few pet projects. But this quote is so true: There are lies, damned lies, and statistics. It doesn't take much to prove black is white with statistics.

Education and intelligence are not one and the same!

"What is sad is that education actually increased the abortion rate... " Mallika.

Regrettably, going to college and coming out with a degree(s) makes you qualified in a given field of discipline; it does not make you educated. Education is a much broader field than that.

Also, going to college and coming out with a prefix or suffix to your name does not, similarly, make you intelligent.

Intelligence is what you are born with; education is what you acquire, and seldom do the twain equate.

Good night.

P.S. The indiscriminate termination of female fetuses is wrong and must end.

Tiffany, my Mom is a Gemini; I learned to love Gemini's from the great Masteress herself(wink!)

I walk, with NO fear of gemini's(great organizers).....lol most of my closest, funnest friends are gemini's over the years.

North

Just heard a report by an official agency in India which says this particular study is an exaggeration - no details however. My gut feeling is that it isn't.

Prasad, Krish, Divya, as far as the BBC goes, I once used to rely on them completely - not so any more. Too many small isolated reports slowly convinced me that there is no such thing as unbiased reporting anymore. The last bastion crumbled over the last few years. Anyone ever noticed how "Musharaff, the military dictator of Pakistan" being addressed overnight as "President/General Musharaff" after he became an ally?

Krish, I agree its sensible to go by raw data rather than opinions. Only problem I face is where does one get raw accurate data if not from some published source or a Govt. agency? Besides, sometimes one's lack of depth of knowledge may inhibit one from coming to a reasoned opinion.

Hi there, Soultrip,
There is no choice for a creative person like me but to shift my residence to Bombay. It is the hub of everything to do with cinema and television. Can't bring the well to the horse if the horse is thirsty! ;)
Hope all my Intentblog friends are doing well.

Cheers!
Navin

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