"Im single because I was born that way" - Mae West
Kavita Chhibber - February 24, 2006
Perhaps nothing consumes the South Asian community more than the obsession with marriage.
Internet dating services, matrimonial ads in community publications, masala cruises, the ever thriving aunty network, all are geared with one aim in mind-to find you that special someone to nab into holy matrimony before your biological clock goes from ticking to racing through time. Even the annual South Asian cultural Conventions that are supposed to showcase the myriad colors of India, have added a well publicized attraction - a matrimonial service - to its agenda. Wherever you go, if you are minus a member of the opposite sex hanging on your arm, even before the pleasantries are done you are asked the million dollar question, “Are you married?”
The Indian matrimonial bliss is however increasingly moving towards the unavoidable American reality, where 50 percent marriages end in divorce in the US. By contrast Indian American marriages are more stable, but the divorce rate is on the rise both in India and in the South Asian community in North America. Today, 10 to 15 percent of all marriages end in divorce or separation. It is also obvious from the current trends that South Asians are focusing more on career, delaying marriage much to their parents’ dismay. Many jobs require extensive traveling these days and while it opens a whole new world of meeting exciting people, it leaves little time to develop long term relationships. The younger generation wants to date more as well. Today much to the dismay of their parents, 27 percent of Indians are single. This percentage is almost as high as the national average.
And what about people who are in their mid thirties forties, fifties, even sixties? What happens when they go against the norm and stay single even after the biological clock has crashed, or choose not to repeat the marital mantra after a divorce or death of a spouse? I did a piece a short while ago where several singles shared their lives’ experiences and why today their personal quest for happiness and fulfillment does not equal having a significant other in their lives.
I’m posting a shorter version here and you can read the story in its entirety on my website(http://www.kavitachhibber.com/single_rebound.html).
Incidentally the publication this appeared in and I received innumerable emails from not just south Asians but people from other ethnic groups saying they face the same issues in their community. This remains one of the most accessed articles on my website as well.
Rekha Krishnamurti, 36 a New York-based consultant, says growing up in a conservative South Indian family in Ottawa precluded dating, going to the prom or partying, and she was expected to marry a south Indian from her own community. “I find it very strange that while growing up, South Asian parents do not allow their kids to date, hound them to concentrate on studies and yet marriage becomes the be all and end all of every girl’s life, and is such an important part of our culture. What they don’t realize is that most of us because we haven’t been dating, remain pretty clueless about what we want or how to act with the opposite sex, and I was no different. I never thought I would be in my mid thirties and still single. I was so sure I’d be married by 26-27.”
Rekha says she really learnt about life when she started living on her own, and that what worked in her grandmother and mother’s time was not necessarily what would work for her. While says while she still hasn’t given up on marriage, it would require a self confident and liberal man to accept the fact that she doesn’t intend giving up her independence and her interests if she does marry.
Jagriti Ruparel came to the USA when she was in her late 20s in 1989 for further education.“I 'm from a very liberal family where we were never told we HAD to get married. Rather we were told that we must be self reliant and not plan our lives based on the presumption that just because you are married it will be for life.” Jagriti says when she was in her early twenties, like everyone else she too obsessed who she would marry. “In India people are always making you aware that you are now eligible. My mother would always put people in their place when they asked her when I would get settled, saying that I was already “settled” with a good job and may unsettle everyone if I got married in haste!”
While Jagriti went on plenty of dates in India, coming to the US put a stop to that. “I realized that dating here meant you were expected to jump into bed on the first date, something we never did in India.” For Jagriti the refusal to compromise meant going from having a full social life to a very lonely one here. Her high profile job involved a lot of traveling and that too puts limitations on the time she has for dating or developing a long term relationship.
Today in her early forties, Jagriti says she has a full life. It was a friend who put things in perspective for her when she was complaining about how lonely life was in the United States, and it really hit home. “ She said Jagriti, start enjoying your own company.” The moment I started doing that I developed so many new interests and started enjoying doing things on my own.” There are times when she comes home after a hard day or when she is stranded in the middle of the street with a flat tire, that Jagriti misses someone she could share things with, but those moments are transient.
“Today when I look at all that I have built single handedly and see my friends going through dysfunctional marriages and some on to their second divorces, I find there are more pluses to being single than minuses and hey I can change my own car tires as well, what do I need a man for? Jokes apart, I have also noticed that most men feel threatened by successful women.”
No one is single by choice, says Jagriti but she is not willing to get married just for the sake of it. “Intellectual and emotional empathy is very high on my list, and unless I can find someone with whom I can be best friends, I’m content with the way things are. In fact my friends call my home their personal spa. Its peaceful, immaculately kept, there are no kids scurrying around and they come here to unwind.”
What happens when some one goes through a painful divorce after many years of marriage and even death of a partner? Some of the single who shared their stories say there is never one reason. Some made children their priority, others found getting back into the dating game confusing, and there were some who felt the expectations of what every one is looking for in a partner have become unrealistic. One thing was for sure. No one wanted to get into it again without taking their time. And while they look, they have built enriched and exciting lives for themselves.
Narender Reddy is a prominent broker, political and community leader in Georgia. He has been divorced for over 8 years, after a 14 year marriage and two daughters. It took him almost 5 years to overcome his grief. He also wanted to ensure that his 2 daughters remained well adjusted and cared for, in which he had his ex wife’s full support. Unlike many of his friends Narender refused to marry quickly on the rebound. “ These guys just went within weeks of their divorce to India and came back with a new bride, while for the first year I was just going around in a daze, neglecting my business, myself.”
When he did check out the dating scene Narender was in for a rude awakening. “Most women in their late thirties and forties have very unrealistic expectations, while men like me in their forties and early fifties have become more realistic. The funny thing is 4 years ago some of these women were on the internet dating websites, claiming they were 40 but looked thirty and wanted to marry a doctor, and they are still there. I have yet to see a woman say on her profile that she is 40 and looks her age. The ones that do look good are all dating younger man. Some of the women who claim they are well settled are barely cracking 40k and have lived in the same apartment for 20 years and start looking at me as their meal ticket.”
To him, it seems no one wants to focus on the key issues of intellectual and emotional empathy. “I want to be with a person with whom I share common interests, who enjoys the same things I do, someone I can share the sunset of my life with, but most Indian women are not thinking that way. All they want to know is how much money I make.”
Narender admits that at times he gets lonely when he sees other guys with their wives and misses the companionship but then he also says in retrospect, while he is not averse to remarrying, he has a thriving business and a rich political career that keeps him very busy. He cherishes his peace of mind and the harmony he enjoys and having winged it as a single man in the 8 plus years, he says he knows he would do just fine on his own if he can’t find what he is looking for.
T Sher Singh,55, one of Canada’s eminent lawyers, writers and public speakers says his parents had a wonderful marriage but somehow even as a teenager he had a sixth sense that what worked for his parents may not work in the times he was growing up in. “ Then the roles were clearly demarcated. The woman was the homemaker, the man the bread winner. No one said what about my rights? Marriage was a social contract as well.” Singh chose his own wife and married at 25. The marriage ended seven and a half years later and he chose to raise his daughter by himself.
When Singh divorced in the early 1980s the community in Canada was not very developed and there were very few Indian women for him to date. “I was not going to make the mistake of bringing a woman from India which is the worst thing we can do for ourselves or for our children. There is such disparity in upbringing and culture even though the origins may be the same. We don’t go into a business relationship with someone we don’t know or hand him a big chunk of money, but we are ready to go and marry a complete stranger within weeks and expect it to work.”
The roles of men and women have changed, says Singh and the boundaries have blurred. One reason why women are staying single longer in North America is because they are developing a lot faster than the men and doing better both academically and professionally.
Singh says the biggest concern will not be the younger but the large number of unhappy older singles left to fend for themselves due to divorce or death of a partner. “We have no idea what to do with them. Can you imagine even in today’s world, anyone trying to hook up two 65 -70 year old singles who may have lost their partners, and for it not to create gossip or make waves in the community?”
Singh who has remained single for over 2 decades says, he dated a lot after his divorce while juggling a high profile legal career and raising his daughter. He did not find some one with whom he could establish a permanent relationship, but sees the situation as a by product of the changing times which makes it difficult to have a permanent relationship.
“I have met some amazing women and enjoyed a very enriching friendship with them. I have yet to meet a couple I have envied and wished I was in their shoes and that is a very telling statement.”
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Posted by Kavita Chhibber at February 24, 2006 06:30 AM
Comments
Thank you R,
and every body who posted here-I'm a bit behind in acknowledgements with deadlines for the next issue of my mag looming.
I will get ahold of Anita Nair's book-thanks for suggestig it R
hey kavita,
none of the sentiments put forth in yr article...are in any way questionable or even debatable....thats the Truth...and i agree with you...keep writing and have a great weekend to all...
mmhnmn..funny to read..;)
problems are all the same..;)
I'm Polish, 28, living in the netherlands,
in Poland; for social-hystorical-economical reasons, when the girls are not married by the end of the study, or ingaded, then there is a problem..;)
Nevertheless, in the Netherlands, since it is a
Ego-extrema manifestation of the Kama Sutra, but then in a solo way.. of the materialistic kind..;)
the age, here is around 30-35,
In Poland, when there are a lot of 'bad boys' in the Playboy sense, no kiddin' there are some bastards, man! but then again, a higher percentage
of 'applepie' guys, the girls fight over!, no kiddin'!
In the Netherlands, and I think through economical female Ego emancipation,
ah, heck, who cares! I'm packing to Poland anyway!
With Love, Passion and..know this song..? ;)
A woman's touch..;) (polish..I mean..;)
Dear Kavita,
Interesting article!
It is rather refreshing to learn that more and more women from the South-Asian community, like yourself, are becoming more assertive and in-charge of their own destinies rather than submit to the possible shackles and bondage of a traditional arranged marriage which is always a huge gamble!
As a free person, male or female, one is naturally expected to choose for one' self what is best, including choice of education, career and marriage, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, even if is disappoints their parents. Kudos to all Indian women who are able to make the transition to personal freedom!
Regards.
Ron,
IN reponse to your comment, I believe there's a personal/cultural subjectivity issue taking place here. Most western people believe that anyone from a different culture with relation to women is some kind of heathen who is trapping women and disallowing them from unleashing their full potential. But I genuinely believe that arranged marriages etc worked in the generations above us because of the very realistic (ie. nil) expectations. Precisely because social roles were demarcated and in a way, the woman did have full authority, just not over a 'career' domain, which was simply a man's domain. Now one can't change an entire culture. The clash that happens between this westernised generation (mine) is that after imbibing the exposure to Western media, somewhere along the way, we women went in the career and 'personal freedom' - whatever that is - direction. Unfortunately, men have been the hegemony creators in every society. our men are still transitioning. You cant blame the rate of cultural change. And everyone's scared. everyone wants to be happy and not have messy lives. Women aren't any freer today in teh west or anywhere. Now, there's an unsaid social pressure on women to work if they're educated, even if they may not want to. That's not freedom. The breakdown in the traditional family, with no viable solution so far in sight since the sexes seem bent on sticking to their own stand, is what is leading churches to urge women to stay home for a few years.
The problem is that Personal freedom has come to be equated with financial. No person has a right to breathe or complain if they don't have the means for it it seems. Because women didn't earn money, they complained less (or just refrained from doing so) and marriages lasted. Now they don't need to put up with anything - anywhere.
Therefore men, who are not used to independent women -all over the world - feel intimidated and need to put down the woman in some way - whether verbally, in public, or through an affair.
I'm not targetting you - i apologise if you think so - just trying to sort out my own thoughts on the matter.
In fact the funny part is that when I came to the US to study I got all ethnocentric about how amazing my culture is. But then I realised its not important - all cultures exist in a specific context - and they all hav etheir own pros and cons and imperfections, and we just need to look inwards and be objective.
Yeah, that and,
a spiritual chick, now that's a scarse commodity!
This is the thing, when I'll get back (polish) home, gonna sign up for some polish law classes,
(not to mention..that's where the best girls are at too..;) no kiddin', anyhow,
any western, has in East Europe..like the 50ct. song..Candyshop! (and that aunty network works the same, too ;) Anyhow, my point, was, in Esoteric cyrcles right, there are only like 2 books of Deepaks translated in Polish language,
..gees..why am I always the designated 'babysitter' giving lectures..;)
ah, well, relationships and mirrors..
Kavita, you should start a dating blog! ;)
With Love, Passion!
Dear Aranyi,
I have enjoyed reading your post. You have thoughtfully touched on several historical, traditional and sensitive areas of this sensitive issue.
While everyone will agree that all cultural practices are replete with flaws, it must be terrifying for some youngwomen and youngmen to be tied in matrimony to a complete stranger with whom they have never met before the arrangement.
An arranged marriage (like all marriages to some degree) will always be a crapshoot. For some, things will fall into place, resulting in a happy union. But for many others, it will remain an ongoing nightmare and regret.
Thus to choose for one's self must be the best option yet, for, should things go awry, then, the blame cannot be laid on parents or society, but the self.
Best regards.
Very Good article Kavita!! You bring in the prevailing norms of the society very well. So realistic! I cudn't disagree, but maybe I thought I will just present my perspec to you...which is quite different from the article above.
Just to answer that "Single I was born that way" But do you realize it took what to be born that way?
There was a time in my life in 20's where I never really understood the meaning of marriage. Now In mid 30's my view has changed so much..almost poles. To me...there are very few beautiful things in the world as marriage. True...really good couples are a rarity, but have you not seen them? Kaveetaa's parents were one classic, even though they belonged to older generation. I've seen some and was at Awe. I've wondered in my past 5-6yrs why does bollywood make love stories running around the tress with songs and all those extra marital affair themes and not even a handful based on the theme of a good married couple and How beautiful Strong can Love be in that relationship. Titanic was a little close to that...it did show what Real love is abt. So yeah...The movie can start off from the point of marriage and show how beautifully love Evolves from there on...there was one movie recently Chalthe Chalthe...even though the love part was picturised well it had the conflict part too. Maybe I myself shud write a script of a Love story but one "after marriage" and present it to some director and it cud turn out to be a hit, but maybe not becoz it maynot be related by many.
Cheers..Sachin
The concept of marriage and partnering, at this point in time, is going through great turmoil and transformation. It is for this reason that there are many divorces, separations and changes in coupling.
About a year ago I wrote a post on Indian Dating/Matrimony sites, ofcourse with oz sense of sick humor. Post was based on true facts.
http://www.desitrain.com/2005/01/19/therapy-101-avoiding-desi-matrimonial-sites-and-the-women/
Way back In time; women protested and revolutionalized the concept of "woman" and the right to do what they wanted, equal as men; including the right to vote!
Look how far we have BEcome as women!
today, we see a role reversal effect, however -
working women/mothers and stay-at-home husbands and fathers.
Most couples adapt to this new arrangement and role reversaling..
some do not.
what prices have we paid for freedom as women; and why did we have to pay a price?
Did men pay a price, for "being" men?
I've always wondered!
Jiminy Cricket
To those of us woman near fify or just over....I highly recommend a new book by Gail Sheehy, "Sex and the Seasoned Woman"....Time (and experience) has been our friend....:)
Joanie
Thanks Joanie! I'll be hitting the Big -50- this coming August - son will be by then, a month gone on his college education adventures to come
and though my maturity tells me it's just a number; empty nest is just another fact of life;
And, being I'm lucky maybe I lived this long(by mortality comparison) - life aint' all that bad!
I knew my womanly beauty would not last..so I didn't have expectations that it would!
I knew my youthly energy would be a flash in the pan of life;
when it abruptly ended much too soon,
in my opinion!
My biggest quirk is being single at this crossroad; in finding North, I lost my South(ahem); and in seeking peace, I found an emptied room; which happens, when one is single and IN empty nest "alone" without a companion!
Whew! Single-dome is NOT all it's cracked up to be; and yet, I feel like a comfy fat-cat; all settled in my ways..as a single?
Gotta read the book you recommend Joanie! lol
Kavita, nice piece on a very substantial and delicate issue, facing global society's families,
as we watch them deconstruct form the "old ways" which seem fragile and ready to expand, into new role-adversaries, as each others new role models.
North
Hi North!
What is so nice about being a seasoned woman...is that we have no clock ticking, we don't HAVE to get married if we that is what we want. We can be happy with ourselves in many facets of our lives.
The book talks about finding passion in this stage of our lives and that it DOES exist! We as women have had time on our side with many many experiences...
To me, there is passion in many parts of a woman's life and it is up to that woman to tap into it and fly with it.....just like those butterflies we have talked about on Intentblog...
My son is about to turn 16....it freaks me out sometimes as time has just gone so fast...I remember how hard it was to be a teenager...especially thru the "ugly" years as I used to call it...the peer pressure....dealing with parents....boys....just finding oneself. It is so much harder these days...
Anyway!! Kavita, thanks for this blog entry! It is great!
Joanie
Me start a dating blog? Thanks Marek, that's all I need!Thank you every one for your thought provoking responses. The focus of my story was actually the fact that it is okay to be single, if you can't find or be the right partner for someone. It is as satisfying to be in a happy relationship and to be married, but you must first be happy with yourself.
I often see people marrying for the wrong reason, or even get into relationships for the wrong reasons-parental pressure, because society expects it, the so called biological clock ticking away etc etc. My parents have had one of the best marriages I have seen, but I have also seen some horrible relationships within my family and friends where those people should have not been together but stayed for several reasons, some valid, some ridiculous.
I think the older generation and a lot of it applies to other societies also stayed in marriages a lot of them dysfunctional because the woman was not a professional. I personally think there is a lot of merit in division of labor, where one partner is a home maker and the other earns..I see too many couples overwhelmed with working in their professions, trying to raise their kids and also have a good marriage , but ofen floundering under the stress of trying to do it all and have it all.
Two of my brothers have chosen to stay single and I dont see them unhappy-they are so busy and productive,they tell me they are alone but not lonely..others are happily married, and some are not..
The concept of marriage as T Sher Singh mentioned is changing as women come into their own. I also find a lot of people with very unrealistic expectations in what they want out of relationships, both among men and women.
For me there are couple of key things-all relationships are based on compromise-but it should be a happy compromise. Whenver there is an imbalance the dysfunction begins. Most importantly all of us must learn to enjoy our own company and be productive and self reliant-even in the best of marriages, one partner dies before the other, and it is really important to love yourself and nurture yourself first-unless you do that you cannot nurture others.
Again, the more I interact with people from different cultures, the more I realize everyone wants the same thing, no matter what the color of our skin..we all want to be healthy, happy, financially secure, marry or be with good people who complement us and raise our kids in a healthy and safe environment. The pressures that we face are what we allow to be placed on ourselves, thereby complicating what could be a very simple way of looking at life and love.
Jiminy cricket, you asked if men had changed. I think majority of the men I know in their twenties and early thirties who are raised here have far fewer expectations of their partners-they are far more supportive of their women and a lot of them chip in to help in the household chores. I find the older generation in their 50s and above, who have been raised in India, still having far too many expectations of their wives and perhaps that is why I'm seeing a rise in divorce rates among couples even in their late forties and fifties and above..but that's is really my personal experience and from what I see around me among the couples I know, others may have faced or seen things differently.
Hi Joanie; I agree, raising kids today is harder..when I were a child; we never "thought war" we thought fun, dancing, singing, and cute boys!! today, kids must think of gargantuan debts for college, and maybe no job prosect post grad..whew! he's hit a consequtive placement on the honour roll this report card. and we are thrilled with his achievement!!
Not like when I were a teen; I could quit a job today; and have a new one, by weeks end.!
now, we ready my son for a 36 hour return bus-ride to go to a college open house next month..it's his top 2,,and he'll see both colleges(1-hour apart)..but the costs!! oh yikes...
so, I did what any Mom would do; I stopped colouring my locks to hide the grey; so I can save that $65 every 2 months for him;..I don't mind, but I look OLD and feel two-toned, for some reason!! lol
speaking of butterflies, you are invited to my tea-party at Spirits to see my 16 new creations..
http://groups.msn.com/SpiritsoftheFourWinds/vasesinframes.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=402
bring TEA, my virtual tea ranks low-grade!! Smoking ONLY outside.....lol
North
HI Kavita..thanks for answering and for your views..and good points!!
It does seem the generation of the mid-late 40's -50's generations which seem to be having difficulty in adjusting to the changing force and trends of expanding female-gender roles in the work-force; some men just can't handle that with their little woman I guess?
But, I guess they can't be blamed for the slower pace they must walk; as each gender adjusts to ever-changes that evolve with us as human beings.
Jiminy
Hi Jiminy,
I was on a flight with a Jewish software engineer and she said the same thing, that the younger men have no problems hanging out with her, taking instructions from her, but the older men still have a hard time accepting her as a boss.
Another friend in her 30s who is in homeland security said at the beginning of her interaction, she would time the number of seconds it took for the men to go from leaning back in their chairs, to finally put their elbows on the table and listen intently and realize how good she is at what she does..she has them down from 5 minutes to about 30 seconds now!
The world has changed. Is changing. The lives of the people have changed. The ambitions, expectations have changed. So, when everything else has changed then why are we still stuck up with the old concept of marriage & family? If we remove the concept of marriage from our society, would it lead to anarchy and chaos?
I don't have the answer. Simply coz I haven't had the time to think about it. But throwing this question at Intentblog visitors to think upon & churn.
Cheers!
Navin
good for her, Kavita! that's a good time-frame for her to master...and muster!
I can't imagine what it would be like to be a female-boss(or male hahahah)! I know what it is like to be a woman though; and based on that alone warrants great wonderment for the achievements of modern women today, whom do manage to "do it all"!
Middle-agers have it the most difficult I think perhaps; because they might be left feeling that constant pull to old ways, or new ways of relationship compliance?
I know for a fact, people just 10 years older, that I know of; are more set in old ways than I am - almost like a socializing agency of loosening the skirt, befuddles them!
Jiminy
Navin..As usual loved your logic. Do you know Shekhar uses the same logic abt marriage "The changing times". But...we cannot generalize for certain things in a society, marriage being one. Different strokes for Different folks!! Simple saying..lot of depth. Another one is...One man's food is another man's poison. So what works for one may/maynot work for the other, and it simply is not right to Impose such personal things but Bush thinks otherway:))President of the most powerful nation. I'm quite sure you wud resonate with what I said.
Kavita...What does Bra busting feminist mean? I remember you using that phrase once. Who exactly are they in this rapidly changing world?
Cheers..Sachin
Kavita...Do you know who this Jiminy is? New but I generally don't go wrong in picking up the energies and structure from the post. Similar is different from being the same mind you. One can hide and twist the plain truth, but eventually it will come out to the surface. Yaad rakhna vho saying "SatyamevJayate". Certain things don't miss my eyes.
Take care..Sachin
Dear Sachin,
There are bound to be a lot of similarities between me and Shekhar as we share the same sun-sign. And I like/respect him a lot.
I agree, marriage would mean different things for different people. All I'm saying is that there should not be a compulsion for two people to live together either by law or by society norms, for the rest of their lives. Two people should live together for the right reasons and not the wrong reasons. And the only right reason to my mind is if they love each other.
And if the love has gone out of a marriage, then they should not pretend to be happy and drag the marriage, as is often the case in many couples.
As long as there is true love between a couple, they would stay loyal to each other till eternity anyway, marriage or no marriage.
Cheers!
Navin
I'm not waitin' around for a man to save me
(Cos I'm happy where I am)
Don't depend on a guy to validate me
(No no)
I don't need to be anyone's baby
(Is that so hard to understand?)
No I don't need another half to make me whole
Make your move if you want
Doesn't mean I will or won't
I'm free to make my mind up
You either got it or you don't
[Chorus:]
This is my current single status
My declaration of independence
There's no way I'm tradin' places
Right now a star's in the ascendant
http://www.musicfactory2.co.uk/Lyrics/Natashabedingfield/Single.html
Yeah, Kavita, I know the song..;)
but you know what it is..?
I'd rather hear...;)
Yo, I'm internationally known on the microphone
I got it all, but I really need a wife at home
I don't really like the zone, never spend the night alone
I got a few, you would like to bone
But, chicks that romance me, don't tickle my fancy
Only Tiffany, Nancy; that's not what my plans be
need a girl that could stand me, raise me a family
Go to trips to the Lancy, trips to the Grammy's cause
Most of these girls be confusing me
I don't know if they really love me or they using me
maybe is the money, or maybe you ain't used to me
Cause you was depressed and now you abusing me
That's why I need me a girl to be true to me
Know bout the game, and know how it do to me
Without a girl on my side, shit I ruin me
Forget the world, it's just you and me
Now let's ride.....
http://girlsinmylife.blogspot.com/
Who sung last song..?
What's the song playing in your head, Kavita?
With Love, Passion!
Spon on Navin! Sola aane Sach! Knowing you, I knew what you were saying. I look fwd to reading more of you fearless clear thoughts here at Intent. Btw this is the same point which Kavita too has harped on and she believes the same way as we do. No place for dysfunction especially when it comes to love between man and the woman as a couple. I'm totally for it. Marriage, as you said is "Dilon ka bandhan" Two hearts in love. For this..one doesn't need a damn bloody permission from the society or anyone. If that basic foundation is weak..it is bound to crumble and have its repercussions. But what we said is not the norm...what's the norm, we all know it. I, for one, is really put off when there is No real love in the couple and are just living together for kids or some silly reason like "what will the world think" the former in some cases is Valid enough though. Most of them I've seen simply don't have the courage to split and move ahead and find real love. I've deeply Interrogated such couples and dysfunctional families. I know how their minds work. Meri nazar mein..One who has not Experienced Love has not Experienced Life
Love..Sachin
Navin ...Sachin ..Kavita...
It is so refreshing to read ur posts....
Bahut kuchh likhne ka man ker raha hai....
abhi kam per jana hai....rat ko wapas aa ker bolti hu ....tum jaise open minded log jab milte hai tab kuchh hide kerne ka man nahi kerta hai....otherwise India me aur kisi se apane dil ki baat kahi to bolte hai...Ur views r RADICAL...
Good post on real tough issues couples face today!
Zara
Life moves too fast these days for people to really take quality time in developing relationships with perspective mates.
Good topic!
Janile
Dear Sachin,
Nope, I didn't go for the Filmfare awards. Maybe next year, when I'll get a nomination. ;)LOL Went to see a movie (Taxi No.9211) with a friend, instead. Good timepass movie. All the actors did a good job, Nana & John played the lead parts.
Caught up with the last part of the awards show on Sony.
Just saw the scandalous transcript of a phone chat between politician Amar Singh and Bipasha Basu. I couldn't believe Bips was hitting on the pot-bellied, middle-aged Amar Singh, going by the transcript! Just becoz he had money & power? Disgusting. I wonder how her boyfriend, John, would react.
Cheers!
Navin
Sachin:
Tum India me rahte ho kya? Kis city me rahte ho batana....
Navin lives in Bombay and his Email ID is cosmicsuperstar@gmail.com
tumhara kuchh nidarr kerke tha ...phir se ek bar jara likh ker bhej dena...
Harb aur Kate ka Email ID pata ho to wo bhi likh dena...
thanks for ur post...
I was thinking that there should be a place where those people who post their comment can provide thier Email ID and may be contact number...like a Directory....
Thank you every one..Seema thanks for your kind comments. Navin, I think at least in the big cities in India more people are living together, and perhaps redfining what committment may mean. Out here I remember reading an article which said that 90 percent of the people who live together seldom marry.
I find it pretty strange when some of my friends say things like once they are married things will be permanent. Its never a piece of paper that keeps two people together, or even going around the sacred fire. I think while on one hand I see many couple throwing in the towel very shortly after the adjustment issues come up, there are others who are together only in name. One of my friends was being pressured by her mom and refused to give intill she found what she was looking for at almost 32, I remember her mom saying-I dont know why she keeps talking about this chemistry shemistry nonsense-I just wanted a good looking husband who lived abroad, I got what I wanted-we have totally different interests-he does his own thing I do mine, but we have been happy together.
A guy friend waited till he was 39, and is marrying an American and his folks had an issue with that..first they were busy fretting that he was taking so long and then it was like..marry anyone, but when he brought his fiancee home-it was she is not like Indian girls-she doesnt help in the kitchen! ah well I don't see many Indian girls doing that either! but he is happy cooking and she does the accounts and other stuff.
I guess whatver works for each person. For some its a must to be married..my mom used to crack me up when she would say..see all these film actresses..even THEY get married when they don't need to. Coming from a time when women didnt work and at times were stuck in bad marriages, she perhaps looked at the actresses who were making their money and felt if they wanted it, it must be a must..now she thinks differently.
I feel that eventually you must be with someone you really enjoy being with and can laugh with, and that may or may not happen at any age..if it does great-if it doesnt, have fun being your own best friend..I have seen more lonely people in marriages than otherwise.
Thank you every one else for your posts. am a bit rushed for time with meetings and a flight to catch but just wanted to acknowledge the posts.
Dear Kavita,
You are right. Marriage is not the be all and end all of anyone's existence.
Why do people get married in the first place? The number one reason would be to have kids who'd carry on the family name and their genes. I have a theory that highly evolved souls do not really have a "need" to reproduce. Most human beings have it written in their genetic code to find a suitable partner asap for reproducing, so that they could live on even after their death. But enlightened souls do not really mind getting annhilated (fanaah).
Cheers!
Navin
Janile...that was a good point!
Seema...Hum vus desh ke bashinde hai jahan peh pyaar bustha hai:)...just being jovial. I live in India,hyd..now trying to be focussed on the spiritual path again, but got diverted here and there at times. It's time again for me to be really focussed on the Spirit and not get into trivial things. Intent isn't the best place for that.
Yes Harb and Navin...both are friendly and helpful, very approachable guys as is Kate. Yes your idea used to be, still actually exists at Chopra.com but with changing times, you can see so many are having their own websites here, that soon someone not having one wud become the odd one. I think the logic of Mallika is perhaps whoever is really interested in communicating with the other, anyhow will. Yes mine is nidarr@yahoo.com
Take care..Sachin
Kavita, just "learned" that your article "An Uncommon Love Story" has WON a monthly magazine article award!!
I do hope you will post something on this...
I am so happy for you and Kaveeta Kahual for this honour and unexpected blessing; for your article and Sacred Story of Parents, like this one, of Kaveeta's...
awesome joy, to you both, and congratulations, again and again...Kaveeta's Mom must be bursting with pride and heartwarming appreciation for her beloved daughters tribute.
North
Your understanding is Very good Navin. I do know you're into spirituality, perhaps not too deep. You were talking it from your standpoint abt the highly evolved souls "they don't mind". In those stages, they don't see anything as not theirs. Mera apna, selfishness doesn't exist in them. There is a major shift in one's Identification, like you said the annihilation of the "I". When you really begin to feel and realize without that small "I" separation doesn't exist....sab apna apna lagne lagtha hai the identification then becomes far richer than the small "I". Which one wud choose one then...the richer.
Perhaps someother time I cud talk abt Commitment...that perspective was hardly visible in this thread. It is beautiful and rewarding if it is practised honestly.
Love..Sachin
One thing I like about being single is not having to be accountable to anyone elses expectations; only to my own. I do not feel this to be selfish, nor self-serving; but, more a "preference of space."
One thing I don't like about being single; is not having that partner-hood, that bonding with another; sharing life in every way, every day, and in such a deep loving way; as to want to be with that person for life!
For me, a deep friendship would have to be a powerful source.
Beauty and health all relinquish themselves whether we like it or not, to father time and the inevitable age-process of the body.
A couple with thoughts of sharing a long relationship, and to have children; should strive to be best friends;
never let anyone elses point of view, divide and conquer them;
stand strong and steadfast for each others fears and dreams, in nurturing both diligently;
be true to self, and each other; with respect and love;
honour each others needs for privacy or for celebrations.
stop at nothing; to protect your children from harmful influence;
such as a bad teacher, preacher, or neighbour; or else their thoughts become marred in a bog of confusion..
protect them with knowledge, wisdom..grow with them, never stopping them from growing at their own pace.
IF a couple cannot maintain these "ways" of peace and tranquility for many, many years; it would be futile to pretend; just for the sake of not being alone.
So, being single has an up and a down.
How relevant indeed!
North
Dear North,
The above is one of your best posts yet!
Our greatest legacy in life, in my view, are our children. All else pale in comparison. All our PHDs and other sufixes and prefixes and wealth and fame will then matter little, for in our children, we shall live on!
All relationships require dilligence and deliberate hard work in order to survive and blossom. There is no perfect relationship! Period!
The decision to remain single is also honorable. There is no natural requirement to matrimony or parenthood! Everyone should be respected for whatever choices they make!
Regards.
thanks Ron! I agree! My son has overcome the loss of a kidney at age 13, but maintains a high average, making the honour roll; has a great natural talent for comedy and laughter!!
All this comes from strong, diligent parenting and child willingness to participate with the parent; it's a two-way street, and there is NO manual.
Involvement in a childs school life is so often ignored by parents; one can pick a non-nurtured child from a crowd of a hundred children; they are that obvious, and often fall prey to predators like pedophiles, or drug-dealers; to seek acceptance, love and attention.
Very tragic!
North
Hi North and Ron,and Navin,
between the three of you, you have put across some very significant points. Navin, I actually read an article in India Today some time back that many couples are choosing not to have children preferring to seek fulfilment of their own potential. Instead of calling themselves childless they call themselves childfree. Having kids has been a natural progression from getting married, as per the rules laid down by society. I see some amazing mothers and fathers who have devoted their lives to their kids, and I also see a large number of people who should neither be married or be parents.The ironic thing is we spend more time figuring out which car to buy and whether the model will work for us, or even what pet to keep, which breed of dog for example, but many don't stop to think whether marriage or being a parent works for them..eventually I think everyone must choose carefully what works for them..and also take responsibility for decisions made in haste.
Dear Kavita,
Ah, love - is so unlike any experience to compare too!
There really is no textbook, manual, self-help guide, that can reveal the complexities of the heart and its desires.
Study all you will, about any interest, yet - truly, none compares to the stirrings and longings of love sought, love fullfilled, love lost.
The mosting freeing relationships are ones where love can bloom, in the presence of beauty, and in the most trying moments. I think North does describe this so lovely.
Love, marriage, children - all these can be attained, and lost - or nurtured and treasured.
The gift of friendship in marriage is a true bond. The gift of children - the Blessing of the Divine. Natural born or adopted, children make this world a lovely and livable place. What joy I have found in my own daughter, as well as many children I have become friends with!
Thanks for a neat article, and the insights shared herein!
Love and Blessings,
~ Kate
Most freeing!
:)
~ Kate
Kate,
thanks for that beautiful post and for giving me just the idea for my next blog.
Thanks Kate, Kavita; everyone has made some valuable points; on what is vital to bonding/relationshiping; and the variables of non-compliance and false passion/love.
North
Kate when r u going to post ur pictures here....
I was surfing my albums, added a pic and a prayer.
I found this pic, and it pretty much sum's up the couple ideology:
that suffice to say; for a relationship to work in harmony; one must be willing to be night; and let the other, be day..
http://groups.msn.com/SpiritsoftheFourWinds/northsalbuminspirations.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=285
Just the embrace in this pic is, eternal.
North
Seema lagtha hai kismat ko manzoor nahi tha to let you read my post addressed to you...it still didn't appear after 12hrs(don't know why Kavita is stopping LOL!...kidding).
I've never liked this delay thing..it simply disrupts the beautiful flow of a thread. It was addressed to Navin too..Bhaya kaise mazein mein vho...
Cheers..Sachin
Sachin:
tumhara ek post to maine padha ...usake bad maine tumse Kate...Harb ....Navin aur tumhara Email ID likh ker bhejne ke liye bola tha.
but I never saw any post in response to that....
Kavita:
Somany times I told Kate to send her pictures but ....No success...tum ek bar bol ker dekho......
Kate is so sweet! She stole my heart when I first started blogging here in summer, with her unyielding kindness and compassion for "all" people...
I have no need to see her face;
because her light..has taken its place!
North
HI Seema; I am in a poetic trance....lol...how are you, on your side of the world today/night?
1:00AM here! eeeek! I"m so nocturnal.
North
Kate:
I keep asking u to send ur pitures...U know why...
Because I feel that u r Embodiment of LOVE ....I want to see love in human form.....
North:
It is 10.15 pm here in California.....thank god u r there to respond.....
Hi Seema, I am still here; but not for much longer, as I am 3 hours ahead of you!!
California!! Ooooooooh; and it is a deep-freeze winter her for a while yet...
what you said to K about why you wanted a pic; is so sweet!
North
well, I'm off to become at one with my pillow!!
2-3 hours past my bedtime!
g'night ya'll; have a great Monday!
North
Good night North
This is always one of my favourite topics of discussion..as a single woman in her late thirties, and not married. Living in a society here in India, where singledom is not really understood-growing up in a society where your relationship status is not even questioned.
Sometimes I feel sad about it, sometimes not-but not overtly pessimistic that it may never happen. Life is unpredicatable, and people come in and out of your life constantly, that's the beauty of it.
I think that its true to say that the attitude towards marriage differs in different cultures. In the western culture, people marry later after having achieved certain personal aspirations, and then look to other priorities in life. So you're not really considered a freak if you don't have a husband/boyfriend/girlfriend/wife.
I think expectations from partners have changed..and the society we live in today is a disposable one-which has overspilled into relationships. If you don't like your situation you can get out of it. Marriage as an institution is becoming archaic, as people's attitude's have changed to what is the concept of 'sharing' and partnership. Women are financially solvent and indpendent, and do not need a man to have a child, fulfill certain aspirations in life etc. It amazes me how many of us who are single are seen as selfish, putting careers infront of personal relationshsips, sad, lonely-but in most cases we have made choices not to marry at certain times in our life, sometimes the choice was made by us, other times by our partner at the time.
The motivation for marriage is very individual-it may be practical or romantic, but it doesn't matter, at the end of the day. I have learnt that it is better to be single than be married or in a relationship for the wrong reasons.
However, I think there is nothing more comforting than knowing that there is another person outside your family and social circle, who will be a witness to your life, the ups and downs, a companion, and someone who allows yourself to be and more. I wonder where he is? lol.
Kamini:
I loved reading ur comment.....
I wonder where he is?....
My situation is really frustrating....
I came across some one very close to ur description but he is married......
That Sucks!
I always wanted to discuss this topic...what if u meet someone who has everything that u r looking for and he is married.....
Hi Seema,
Thanks. Yep-ain't that the truth! I think quite a few of us have met someone who fulfills all our relationship requirements and what we're looking for in another human being, but he/she is not 'available'. It is really frustrating, but somehow we forget that there are so many people in life who could be your potential soulmate-and we tend to divert/focus our energy on that one person-as if they are the only person for us. I have many married friends and many unmarried friends:- men and women, some happy, some sad, some bored,some lonely, some looking for excitement outside their relationship, some questioning, some not questioning...and to be honest, I still don't know what the answer is to sustaining a good solid relationship. However, falling for someone who is not 'available' is pretty tough....but think of it this way...if he's not the one destined for you romantically....someone else out there is! I turely believe that the universe looks after us..and when its the right time, throws us that opportunity-but if we are not open to it..we may miss the chance.
Does any of that make sense? lol
Dearest Seema,
You are heart is so pure, I think I can say, that something blossoms when I read your words, and love is the thread which ties us one to another.
North, can you tell me how I might post a picture on your site, to join with you and Mieke, and the creations contained there in. I do not know if I can shine forth there in essence, but there is something that photographs can capture, that draws us close up, and personal.
Sweet dreams tonight!
~ Kate
"If you are afraid of loneliness, don't marry."
- Anton Chekhov
Seema...it's appeared as expected. It's far above just afer Navin's response to Kavita so you may have missed it. I'm going out of town..don't know when I will be back.
Take care..Sachin
anyhow, what always pops into my mind,
is the 'male-female relationship' in legal terms,
Sovereignty, not a big deal, everybodys independent nowadays,
the 'attribution' of how do you call it in english, 'jurisdictions'? of power?
the decision-making 'proces' the 'norms' governing that, and the free will..
Equality (of arms)..?
Spamm your thoughts..
With Love, Passion!
Thank you every one for your comments. Kamini, I think this issue of single women and all the baggage that comes with it is very common wherever there are people from our community, and not just in India. I think we are taking baby steps towards changing things especially in smaller towns..my cousin sister a gorgeous girl got married into a rather prominent family in delhi and was kicked out pregnant from her husband's home by a dominating mother -in law a few months after her marriage and divorced a year later-its been 8 years and she chose not to remarry and go to law school. Her parents were devastated but handled it with a lot of grace and positive reinforcement. My cousin says she may never marry..
I see a lot of fraudulent cases resulting in divorces but the great thing that has happened with two of my other friends is that they are really doing well professionally and emotionally once they were free. They have a strong support group of friends whenever they need to share their sorrows.
I think friendship is such a key in all relationships-the unfortunate part of globalisation is that most people have no time for long term friendships. Some of the men who are perfect and taken are also poor chaps in a rut where both partners are overwhlemed by all that goes with marriage and a fast pace life..I have seen a couple of them have affairs at work, and then be totally consumed with guilt..luckily for them the wives forgave them, but I wonder if the relationship will ever be the same..they fell in it because suddenly there was novelty and attention that they werent getting at home..two of my brothers who decided to stay single, said its the unhappy marriages, the complexity of relationships that they see around them that has turned them away from marriage, and much as they love all their nieces and nephews, they have no problems not hatching their own to carry on the so called family name.
Monogamous, long term relationships require tremendous hard work and somehow I find today's world has every one looking for a quick fix! and yeah there is a pill for everything but finding real love!
and to my question where are all the good guys, and gals for my guy pals, a friend of mine wisely said..learn to be mr or miss right than look for one..its easier to change the way you look at some one than trying to change them? hmm.. I've also noticed that people have different expectations at different stages of their lives as to what they are looking for in relationships..and sadly I've also seen some mr and mrs rights becoming mr and mrs wrong when the couple has grown apart because their growth has not been parallel.
A sense of security is just that- a sense..so often its taken away abruptly for some reason or the other..so it is,I feel strongly really important to like yourself and enjoy your own company and look at everything good that comes your way as a bonus!
Seema, I think Kate will be posting her picture soon. She is as beautiful as the words she writes.
love to all
Hi Kate, just surfing by quick; I see lots of delicious and great comments at a quick scan; but, will have to check them out way later.
As for Spirits. Join the group. AS a member, you can create an album. you may have to download it's picture uploading program(automatic) but, this is real cool; b/c it lets you see all your pics in thumbnails.
Kate, would be so very glad to have you there as a Spirits Member!!
EM spiritnorth@hotmail.com the Manager(me)
for further site support Kate..or Mieke, if you have her EM? WE are here for ya! lol A childhood friend of mine just joined too..this is great, evenutally we will have someone from all Four Sacred Direction around the globe!! That's why I titled it Spirits of the Four Winds! lol
have a great Monday ya'll,,,,will be back later; many places to run to today; and it is -35 below zero freezing outside!! Blue, blue skies, sunny,,,but a big brrrrrr on that!
L8TR
North
Hi North and Kate and all others here.
I have not commented on this site but am soo glad i´ve read all the comments here. Some really do ring a bell to me too. Since i learned to leave it all to that great Force that surrounds us and is inside us, my life has unfolded miraculously in exactly the way i would have wished it to and i am going to follow its voice wherever it will take me.
Thank you all, Mieke
And do join us at Spirits to extend this circle of friendship even wider.
KAMINI: , nice comments --> "However, I think there is nothing more comforting than knowing that there is another person outside your family and social circle, who will be a witness to your life, the ups and downs, a companion, and someone who allows yourself to be and more I wonder where he is? lol."
My sentiments exactly!! Try not fretting, at pushing 50!! You know what they say... alone at 50..drown in pity......ooh noOOo,,,,somebody save me!! (((big giggles)
I don't need someone to "validate me" like Marek's delightful song lyrics lament; but, as you say Kamini... "who will witness your life" ....
sounds inspiringly dreamy..
SEEMA: if they are married, look but don't touch; it's not fair to the wife or the husband and kids! lol
MAREK: good points; whom swings the biggest bat in the fam... !! When I married, my husband told me our marriage would be 60-40 work.....I had to put in 60%, and he only 40%; and this is the way it was....... Soo, guess who "wore out" first? yup, me!
So, if a marriage/relationship is not 50-50.... it's not balanced!!!!! After 15 years put IN, doing 60%.... I not only burnt out; I lost interest in the "job." Draining is another word that could have been heard by me back then too....
but, we are good friends today; for our son's sake!! for ours too... all in the alas; at least we have our son, and a friendship we didn't have as married's..... sooO weird.....I really DON"T like God's sense of humour, nor mystery!
KAVITA: you said: "sadly I've also seen some mr and mrs rights becoming mr and mrs wrong when the couple has grown apart because their growth has not been parallel." Nice responses Kavita!
and you took the words out of my mouth!! Couples must be like two birds in a nest....
MIEKE: you are married a long time, and your perspective would be welcomed!! YOU have two married kids, and what was it like for them dating? did they talk to you and hubby of these issues?
My son does, and I'm glad, b/c understanding the opposite sex is so critical!! Growing up without dear ol' Dad myself; I had to ensure my son did not have "my specific" unanswered questions/issues I faced; which could be-foggle a childs perceptions, if they don't "ask questions."
Anyway, had a nice long walky...if it wasnt' for that perect deep blue sky and sun out there; I'd stayed indoors.... the windchill is skin-piercing! Mom fed me homemade barley soup! I am a stuffed little oink right now(giggle.) and feel every bit the northern ontario girl, part!
and, with having absorbed so much vitamin-D from the sun; I just have TO:
Sprinkle cool snow-flakes all around the room, as I dilly dally some mo!
North
Hi North and all,
Yes they did talk, always did to me, not always to my husband though cause there was a certain time that he was too busy with his job.
The only sad thing i do clearly remember was that we did have to move in the middle of the puberty of our children because of the career of my husband. We had to tear them away from a rather nice and cosy town where they were already quite settled.
And for me during that time my life was heaven on earth, i got me my dreamhouse (thought i was on holiday there for quite a time lol)and felt at home from the beginning there. And now still live in the same town, but moved to an apartment.
It took a long time before our daughter could forgive us for that, when she finally met her husband to be, she even went living in his parents house and gone was our daughter, found a new father and mother and i had to face that, but luckily my mother always told me: remember you have received them as a gift, treat them as a gift and let them live their own lives. As i always was given this freedom, how could i not give that to her, although sometimes........
We are the best of friends now, so not to worry.
Our son did accept his new life, probably because he was two years younger.
I have always tried to make them a comfortable home and many of their friends have also visited us. We were open with them about dating, sex and everything that has to do with that, also on drugs for that matter. And even then you sometimes worry to death lol
But i would advise anyone not to move when the children are in their puberty, cause that was an experience that i would not like to do over again. However, as with all those things, learnt a lot of it all.
Now me and my husband are the lucky grandparents of one grandson from our daughter and son-in-law and we will be grandparents again in the course of this year from our son and daughter-in-law.
And i have said it before somewhere in another blog about relationships here on intent, if lovers become friends and if you can be totally honest towards each other, you will always find a way to overcome problems. This is my experience after a marriage of almost 38 years now.
Mieke
I have a good news for all the sweeties who could not find a right man!!
I'm here!
I'm here!
I'm here!
Offer Limited!!
Till the night of 28th February!!
Hurry Up!!
; - )
Cheers, Rohit
Rohit:
:-)
Thanks for volunteering.....
Hi guys!
Yeah, I mean, Kavita you are absolutely right that single women and baggage is the same the world over. However, I have always felt that my marital status was more signifanct living here in India than in the UK. This is purely a personal experience..and I would like to be cheeky and post the following humourous/poignant piece (which I have posted before, but in the wrong place-I was a novice blogger then. I think its more apt here)which I wrote just after some cousin's weddings had taken place.
TO BE OR NOT TO BE MARRIED, THAT IS THE QUESTION!
There is something about Indian society, where propriety is not really considered when asking certain questions. These questions may be asked, or even shouted at you in company, as if the Spanish Inquisition is at bay. One question posed, is whether you are married or not, at every available opportunity.
From the autowallah, to the beauty parlour attendants, to even the doctor at my annual medical check-up; who is convinced that the stress and undue pressure I am under, is due to the fact that I do not have a husband, and can be the only possible explanation for my sad existence. It is nothing to do with the highly stressed environment, and constant travel that I am constantly experiencing with my job. I am also of course presumed to be a virginal queen, due to the missing ring on my finger.
Since being back in India from 2002, the ugly question rears its head from time to time. Sometimes it is received with humour, and allows me the opportunity to come back with a witty retort. As they say, the definition of a diplomat is someone who tells you to go to hell in the nicest possible way, that you actually look forward to it (thus my job has stood me in good stead). Sometimes it’s a painful reminder of what's lacking in my life. Not only am I a smoker and a drinker, but God forbid, a single woman in her 30s. Please lock me up and throw away the key!
I often like to take the questions in a lighter frame of mind:-
How can you sleep alone?
(me)Very well, thank you. At least I don't have to control my snoring.
Don’t you get lonely living by yourself?
(me)Only when the cable TV isn't working and I've read everything from my collection of books in the house.
What about kids?
(me)What about them? I think they're great, my brother has four!
You just haven't met the right person yet. You’ll know when you do!
(me)He's good at playing hide and seek!
Then of course there's the flip side:
Don't get married; enjoy your life as it is.
You're so lucky. You can jet off at a seconds notice and not worry about anything!
Don't get me wrong, I think the union between two people is a wonderful thing, with committing to someone being the biggest thing anyone can do in their lives. I am the first one to sustain my romantic inclination of finding my soul mate, and continue to search and date in Delhi (that's another humorous posting) in order to do so. Mind, you the words of my close friend always come back to haunt me, 'Kamini, in a country of 1 billion people and 400 million men, you can't find yourself a nice Punjabi boy?’ What's the matter with you?
However, being the wedding season and having attended two cousin's wedding in the last few weeks, yet again the angst and personal inner turmoil has been re-awakened. Before I get out my Sex and the City box set to remind myself there are other women out there like me! This is a personal question that needs to be answered, do I want to or not? Of course, at weddings I should be circling any single men who are potential husbands, rather than being round the back with my male cousins drinking vodka out of a Pepsi bottle, smoking Marlboro reds in 2 minutes flat..always was one of the boys!!! Maybe that's where I am going wrong?
Maybe the question is answered to some extent by a little event that took place recently. I flew back from New York after a pretty tiring trip of four days. As I got into my pre-paid taxi, the driver who was particularly garrulous this time asked me the inevitable question, 'Are you married?’ I was tired, and didn't really feel like explaining my singledom to him, so I answered with an emphatic 'Yes'. From that word on, the verbal diarrhoea ensued. My husband worked for the Government (lie), I was Diplomat (true), and I had two kids, a boy and a girl. My husband was extremely supportive of my career and the constant travelling associated with it. I had never lied before, what was I doing?!
As we pulled up to my house, the driver wished me well. I then reciprocated with 'Are you married?’ He looked at me with a suspended glance and answered sadly 'No'. I had cheated him. I turned to him and oozed enthusiasm in my delivery of the following words 'Don't worry one day you will be, one day'. As I turned and picked up my suitcase, I started walking up the stairs heavy footed, sighing, and thinking to myself 'One day you will be, one day'.
P.s. Rohit-what's your number-lol
Dear Kamini & Seema,
I never doubted the potential of Intentblog.com to double up as a Dating site. A high class one at that. ;) Coz most people that come here are quite evolved and classy. So, keep pouring your heart out here......chances of finding that elusive someone here are quite high. LOL.
Good luck and Cheers!
Navin
Hi Navin,
Really? Aha..but how do you know who is who, who is single and who is not? From some of the names here its not clear who is a man or a woman..mind you who cares these days-at least it doubles your options!!!
Kamini
Dear Kamini,
I have no probs in knowing who's who and whether someone's a man or a woman here on Intentblog. Like for example, I can tell you that the id "Chaploos Nahin" is the new name for TS, who used to write here earlier and is a friend of mine. I can tell when some regular at Intentblog uses a different id. I even used to guess the color of the clothing worn by people chatting with me on the Net correctly about 85% of the time. ;)
It's not that hard, if you've got your bio-antenna tuned in.
Cheers!
Navin
N,
No, I meant in the context of who is available and who is looking for lurrrrrrrrrrvvvvvvveee!!! lol. I'm just paying.
Sorry I don't know who TS is?
So what colour am I wearing today??
later
K
I meant playing, not paying......oopsss
Dear Kamini,
The ones who are looking for love and who are interested in you, will find you. Don't worry. LOL.
About the color u are wearing today, Ok...I'll make a guess....A bit of peach/cream (off white) color and a bit of black.
Cheers!
Navin
PS:(And I'm playing too!);)
Kamini :
What is ur Number? I am going to callu right now....
Dear Navin,
Really? They'll find me on intent? Mind you that was not my idea of contributing to intent at all-to find someone for myself..but the as the Chinese say 'we live in interesting times', and there is a plethora of opportunities through this medium. How exciting!
Nope sorry dear I'm wearing all black today..close! I'm being an existentialist today....
K
Kamini:
As I told u that I have found a man who has got everything what I was looking for in a man....who cares if he is married....
At least I experienced ...how it feels like falling in love with somebody...
Actually I found two man who has everything ...One is in India...in Bangalore...the other in Boston...his nameis MARK...he is very much like KATE (same Spirit)...only thing is he is male KATE is female.....but he is so Lovable that u can't help it...simply IRRESITIBLE....Feel like writing in Hindi...but I want KATE to read this...so I have to Continue in my Broken English...
Dear Kamini,
See! I told you you're wearing Black today. :)
And look carefully, you'll find the other color I mentioned too in some part of your clothing....maybe your socks, kerchief, undergarments....lol..somewhere!
Cheers!
Navin
PS: I know you don't come to intenblog looking for a date....I just mentioned it going with the flow of the conversation.
Hi Seema,
Whoah!!! Like your upfrontness..you serious?
I can give you my e-mail id..:
kamini_paul@hotmail.com
This better be sincere baby!
lol
Dear Navin,
O.k. let's not go there...to the undergarments...lol. All I shall say to titillate you is that there is a splash of colour in my attire today. Socks and kerchief..mmmmm, haven't carried a kerchief since I was about 12. ha,ha!!
P.s. I know..me going with the flow too.
Seema, are you in Delhi? Where are you?
Kamini
For past 10 years I was trying to learn Meditation ...I used to go to every Seminar ...all Yoga classes ....but of no use...One day I found a book (I forgot the name of the writer)he has mentioned very simple techniques...one of them was loving techinque and ...He said that u have to think about somthing which u really like....I started thinking about MARK...and u won't believe It worked.....The state which I reached was very similar to having Orgasm but prolonged and better quality.....after that I never felt lonely...that experience changed my life......
That is the reason I value True LOVE ....
I am in California....just 5 mins walk from Stanford University......beautiful place...
abhi yaha rat ke 10.30 hue hai...Delhi me dopahar ke 12 baje honge....
Mera Mobile number hai 650 704 6924
E mail ID hai gp_seema@yahoo.com
Dear Seema,
I have been gone all day, and now when I should be trying for sleep - it is evading me ... and the pull of writing to you is so strong!
Oh, I do believe when one loves, it is never from a distance...Love is the great uniter, the Oneness that I often speak and write of.
It is not by chance, I believe, that I come to intent blog, and have 'found' a community of sharing. and of course, finding you! Be it called .... destiny, fate, karma, by accident :)...words, words :)
No, I believe, something 'greater', deeper, spiritual ... has been the pull, to unite...us.
Romance is enticing and delightful... a rush ... springtime enchantment. To be enjoyed and savored, and it is wonderful. Yet, It seems, romance can ... come and go, as seasons do...
Yet of Love, not so!
I believe we have the capacity to be manifestors, and hence, I believe in prayer. And so, dear one...I shall pray that your stirrings for connection ... to someone 'special' will happen. That your message will be delivered and the invitation accepted.
You are so precious. I will plan to write you, and send a picture. But I must try for rest now.
With love,
~ Kate
my love and blessings will travel with you to India. I will keep you close in my thoughts
Dear Seema,
My number is +91 9810467473
if you are in delhi-call me!
take care
K
Rohit, Kamini and Navin, your comments really made me laugh. North, Mieke, very interesting comments.
Seema, is your married guy happily married? I have quite a few married friends who have a marriage of convenience, and look for love outside, but the woman usually ends up getting hurt. According to one male friend, who has flings on the side, he makes it very clear to the women that he will not leave his wife as his parents live with him and are very traditional but he will go as far as is mutually acceptable.
I see more and more people having relationships outside of their marriages these days, and much fewer committed relationships.
A good friend of mine, who is very pretty and smart, did an experiment where she deliberately flirted with some men in committed relationships-with the exception of one guy, who put her in her place, every other guy went as far as she allowed.
After I read navin's post on Bipasha Basu's conversation with amar singh,(I hope it wasnt as bad as it was made out..dont know the exact transcript)I wonder what really is real.
John Abraham her superstar boyfriend is an absolute sweetheart by the way Navin..very sentimental, loving and super smart and perhaps one of the most down to earth people you will meet. I spent many hours with both of them, and Bipasha too came across as very grounded, and not as a user..one doesnt know what to believe any more.
hmm singledom doesnt seem that bad after seeing and hearing and reading this kinda stuff..
I was teasing my parents that they deserve a medal for making it through so happily and gracefully through the years and dad said yes indeed..though I'm not sure why people get married these days? So here's to all the couples who love each other, but here's also an extra cheer to the singles who have survived and thrived!
Kavita:
I just said that at least I found a man who has everything what I was looking for.....
He is happily married.....and I have no intention to make his life mess....
When I told him once that I love him...to that he said ....I am Flattered...
and ...he said ...If I was not married I would have been all over u....
and....he said....where were u 15 years back....
He never did or said anything inappropriate...
U people always take LOVE in very worldly terms....Like u should marry that person and have Sex ...and things like that.....I am not saying that these things I don't like....And If the person is married then concern about his wife getting hurt....
U people won't understand....
That was the reason I never talk about this aspect....
Ur mind is conditioned in such a way that u will think that... OK A man can be in LOVE with only one Woman and I doubt that this can be called LOVE ....U people confuse LOVE with LUST I guess.....U can't Capture love in any man made institution called marriage......
Here at Intent Blog there r only two people so far who has the capacity to understand LOVE ...that is KATE and HARB.....Navin has the potential...but I have not interacted much with him so I am not very sure.....
That was very sweet of him Seema, and I am sure you respect him for being a gentleman. I think life is never black and white..every thing has so many shades of gray. One of my good friends fell in love with a married guy who had a bad marriage and they are married now with a son and very happy-others are doing other things. Also what may seem wrong for one person may be right for another one-there is never one answer for anything.
I think you are a very strong woman and a good person and may everything wonderful come your way this year. and you never know -love has a way of finding you in the oddest of places!
I have not been much on other blogs until just now trying to read up...I'm sorry to hear about your mother. All my prayers and good wishes are with you in this difficult time..
lots of love
I posted this I think and your post showed up Seema.
I think as the love blog shows there are many shades of love and people connect in so many ways..you are quite right about it..incidentally my comments were in general.
I have to share an interesting story-even though this should go on the love blog-maybe I'll post it there too..when I was a teenager, I used to correspond with a sportsman whose game I really liked. He would be travelling, so his father would write back to me..my dad was away and this man was really my surrogate dad, advising me, and writing the most beautiful letters. I finally met him four years later and he told my parents that he would be very honored if they would let me call him dad..he had 3 sons and no daughter. The love I received from a stranger is still one of the most precious gifts I have received and he would say I cant believe it after so many years I have a daughter. So I understand connections that have nothing to do with worldly love..he was a christian and I a hindu and a stranger, and yet the love that grew in the letters we exchanged is a miracle I cherish to this day.
I met my best friend through the internet and we actually met in person after 2 years of having the most amazing friendship online!
Connections have no logic or reason at times..they just happen and I for once cherish them
Dear Kavita,
Are you telling me that John is a sweetheart? Trust me, sweetie, I know he is. He shares my sun-sign. Most Sagi men are irresistable for women. ;) More about John later.
The excerpts of Amar Singh's chat with Bips were published in a Mumbai newspaper, DNA. And what I was surprised to see was that it was Bips who was asking Amar Singh for a rendezvous and not the other way round. Simply because Amar Singh wields a lot of power in Bollywood currently, just on the strength of his proximity with the Bachchans! Bips sounds grounded in her interviews, all right, but the real person is sometimes far from the public persona. I myself was shocked at the lack of morals of some actors (both male and female) here. It's not as if they are being forced to sleep around with powerful people in Bollywood. They are themselves eager to please anyone who could help them with their careers. It would have been no shocker if an upcoming actress had been flirting with the old, ugly Amar Singh. But Bips? How could she be so overcome by greed....at this stage of her career!
She passed by in front of me a few days back when I was speaking with Preity and she looked so ordinary sans make-up. That's not a big deal, most actors look ordinary without make-up. But that transcript I read really put me off. I will try to get a copy of the entire CD so that I hear the voices myself.
Cheers!
Navin
Just now I talked to KAMINI .....
KAMINI was very Indian name so I had this Image that she lives in Delhi and I assumed that she must be knowing HINDI....
And when I hear a lady talking to me in english(British Accent)then I was little ......
Kamini grew in UK so she can't speak Hindi....any way it was fun talking to her....
Thanks Navin,
reminds me of Page 3. I tried to see if any of the papers had covered the transcript but I guess the SC has banned it.
I feel sorry for John though. I actually told her that she is very practical and John was the opposite. It was the same with arjun rampal(yeah another saggi)..they are both such genuine people..
well John will be here in may..I think I have a soft corner for him because he reminds me so much of my brother sunny.
You are absolutely right about everything. People like her dont need to do stuff like that..ah well, I think you will be seeing a lot of that now that you've moved there in reality. With the media everyone puts on a fake face. That is why I stay in touch with only a handful of people who I have interviewed.
Navin and Kavita,
My freinds (both are IAS )have told me such horror stories about these movie people...I was shocked..when they said it is unbelievable how these starlets seek out politicians...
Kavita...you have such a good heart..you always see good in people...I'm sure fimi duniya is not as rosy as it appears...
Kya miliye aise logo se jinki fitrat chhupi rahe
nakali chehara samne aaye asali surat chhupi rahe
Dear Seema,
I'm honoured that you think so highly of me. :) I'll tell you the secret of being the way I am. I live without any prejudices or defenses, that's why I'm fearless and foeless. If I see some faults in people, I tell them on their face (whether I'm right or wrong), so that they know how I feel about them. But I do not shun them for their shortcomings. I accept them and love them with their faults....just as I love myself despite knowing my weaknesses.
I guess, that's the kinda love you're talking about. Yep, Kate and Harb do radiate that kinda love.
And don't worry if Kamini cannot speak much Hindi. Don't let language become a barrier. There is only as much you can communicate through the internet or through the phone. You can feel the real vibes and energy of a person, only in person.
Cheers!
Navin
Dear Kavita,
Speaking of Arjun, I had met him many years back at Hyatt Regency, Delhi, when he and Mehr Jessia had recently got married. He was a model then and Mehr, a model-coordinator. They make a fab couple and I had complimented them for it. He is the most good looking guy Indian cinema has ever had, in his prime. The only reason he has not really made it very big in Bollywood is becoz he is way too classy. He somehow fails to connect with the Indian masses (moviegoers in the interiors of the country and not the multiplex audience, who have a very big hand in making a film a box office hit/miss)as his acting skills need a bit more honing. Overheard them saying this after they had met me:
Arjun (to Mehr): You wanna ask him if he wants to be a model?
Mehr (unsure): He's not tall enough for ramp
LOL. Actually, she was right coz guys have to be over six feet tall to be on the ramp and I was a couple of inches short. ;)
Coming back to John. I had predicted he'd be a superstar when I saw his first movie (Jism) itself. And how right I was! I feel bad for him that he is not a part of Dhoom-II, even when he was the one responsible for the success of Dhoom. Such are the ways of the industry, that they don't treat outsiders like John fairly. Star kids like Abhishek (nothing against him), Esha Deol etc. always get the preference over actors whose families are not connected with films in any way.
Cheers!
Navin
Navin:
Thanks for ur insightful response.....
hello all!
lol, i am wondering what i have written here or at any other thread that i am being so eulogised as the one who understands love...of course, i understand something about it but what i do understand i dont think i have been able to write much about that here ...the fact is that i never took the blog very seriously (in fact there is nothing really serious in this dream-like world in which we came yesterday and shall go tomorrow). i always wrote in a playful mood. sometimes a bit serious but often funny...some tried to bind me with ji but i like freedom...who knows i may like to be like a spoilt youth the next moment...so i thought this ji thing will hinder my total freedom...
anyway, seema, i had written my email when i had invited you to my part of india...and you even replied that you will write when you felt like it...seems you have forgotten...
then you even wrote that somebody was using your name...and you changed your name to seema gupta...i asked you..now tell us who is real seema...the one to whom i gave the email but neither seema nor seema gupta replied....so i lost interest in the matter..
here is my email again..harb_singh@yahoo.com
feel free to write or not write to me...i thought you were from bihar side but told someone here that you are from north india...interesting...where from, from delhi?
hi all enjoyed your messages...though i know much more as from my book why more peole are single these days...just as why people used to have many wives in some previous times...the reason being that there is a design like scheme of things at the bottom of all happenings and we are only pawns in the hands of that scheme. i may write more about that later if my mood allows...
navin, so you are in the thick of things bollywood. hope preity is not like bipasha bassu's of bollywood...though i already think she is not...she is the one person who even refused to be afraid of D company men.
Harb:
I was born in Bihar but ....12 years I was in Jaipur for my schooling and stuff...then came to Bangalore in 1990 and from that time onwards I am in Bangalore ...My two brothers have bought houses in Delhi ....one brother is in Chandigadh...and my mom is right now in Chandigadh ..going through her Chemo....
yes twice someone who had a 17 years old son had posted her comments so I started using Seema gupta....but now a days she is not writing so sometimes I write Seema ...sometimes Seema Gupta...
Hi Harb,
Do share with us what your book has to say about why more people are single these days. We would all like to know your perspective on this subject.
Forget about Preity. I think she's taken. :( She's taking Ness everywhere with her these days. And you're right about her not being like others. I would be shocked beyond belief if my judgement about her was incorrect.
Cheers and Goodnight
Navin
Thanks every one.
Navin you are right about Arjun, but more than his good looks, he is one of the most thoughtful kindhearted people I've met. I actually told him there was a james dean quality I saw in him when I saw Moksha. He is also the kind who wont suck up to any one. I guess you all need to read my interviews with John and arjun on the website..bipasha's is here..seema is right about asli nakli-real/fake persona of people. I guess life is full of surprises about who is what but I guess each to his/her own.
Harb, nice to have you on board and looking forward to your analysis on singledom in today's world!
Thanks Andaleeb, I would prefer to continue to see good in people, because it just gives a good feeling..yu look for the negative and you have such negative vibes surround you.
Incidentally preity was harrassed after she stood up and it was sunjay dutt who intervened and got the underworld goons off her back.
Anyway for every good thing there's a price to pay, I guess..and what is good is also relative.
love to all
Dear Seema,
You seem to be disappointed in me? It was very nice to talk to you too.
I had made some reference to my upbringing and where I had grown up through my posts, but I'm not that mysterious a person-I'm just me. You know its very easy to build up an image of someone through the way they write, but 99.9% they are not who you envisage them to be.
I'm a coversationalist and find people interesting. Human relationships always intrigue me too-which is why I have started writing about them.
Infact, if you look at the way I write, the style is very British, the humour etc. However, I just want to say, I can speak Hindi, but I really wouldn't be able to express myself effectively in Hindi through the written word, as it isn't my first language, but I hope that the image you build up of me is not tainted by my accent, but is based on my thoughts and the way I express myself.
I send you positive vibes to cope with your mother's illness, keep the faith.
Take care
Kamini
seema, navin
lol seema, so that 'short tempered seema with a 17 yr old son was somebody else...what about you then?
navin, just as seasons change 'from behind/afar' and we begin to wear hot or cold clothes..similarly, ages change at global cultural level and we begin to marry or not marry, begin to face more divorces or not and so on. (even your astrology is based on this principle.)
now women have become sort of men-like and men giving way to Yin, that is becoming more women like. so while men have begun sort of fearing marriage and thus do not want to, women, on the other hand do not find men 'suitable'(servile) enough yet at the same time men enough to be their husbands.
women are in for a peculiar predicament now. slowly they will becoming sex hungery. because while men could go to sex workers when they were fully men and were not satisfied with one women as in old times women even though to some extent have become like men yet not enough to go for or even find like men sex-workers.
this is also why old men are yet strong and many women go for old men than new. new youth though good to talk to in emotional terms are not that 'men' when the things come down to sex.
dont worry though, men in their thrities are the inbetwen generation, i think.
my bit....harb
Dear Kamini:
I am not disapponted in u...I am disappointed with the fact that I am not very comfortable with english....so I won't be able to discuss effortlessly...as it would have been in Hindi...but I liked ur spirit....
Hi Seema,
I beg to differ, I think you express yourself beautifully in english, much better than I could in Hindi..honestly, the essence of what you want to say in englsih comes through very clearly.
Maybe we should all start speaking in French? lol
K
see I can't even spell english properly! :-)
:-)
Dear Harb,
LOL. You seem to be making a pitch for men of your generation. ;)
While I agree that there is some overlapping of the yin-yang roles traditionally associated with the male & female genders, that is not a big enough reason for more people staying single these days.
In my opinion, it has got more to do with the financial emancipation of the woman of today. Financial independence has led to a bigger ego in females and hence it leads to ego-clashes with the opposite sex. Also, there is too much work-related stress for both males and females which leads to lesser quality time for romance/love/sex. The fast paced, career-oriented lives of the men & women of today gives them much less leisure time. That is the number one reason for more people staying single these days, as per me.
I don't think your argument that women are choosing to stay single because they cannot find "real men" is correct. Then what about the men who are choosing to stay single? What is the reason for them? ;)
Cheers!
Navin
A very good friend of mine (who sadly passed away at a very young age), once had this conversation with me-its as follows:-
V (my friend): What do you women want?
K (me) : A strong man, who's secure within himself, doesn't feel threatened by a woman's strength in knowing herself-and wanting something outside of her relationship role
V: O.k.-so, you want a man who is macho yet senstive, protects you, but is not aggressive, a provider, but allows equality in the relationship in a financial sense, loves you and see's you as a priority, yet allows you to have your freedom and space, is giving but not smothering etc etc etc
V:- So K-what do you women want?
K:-mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, I don't know! lol
Many of my female friends and I who are still searching, have this little girl fantasy within ourselves of a knight in shining armour who is going to come and save us (the fairy tale)-and then have the flip side of a man who is strong enough to accept us for who we are and see our independence as a challenge to them rather than being detrimental to the relationship.
Some of the best relationship examples I have seen-is where the two people involved can allow eachother the space to be individuals, revel in this-and yet be secure in that they are a support to eachother.
Frankly, for me..I'd be quite happy if he makes me laugh!
lol navin, if we will not help ourselves who will?
yes, we can see the picture from both sides...one has become young so one has begun falling in love....or one has begun falling in love so one has become young...
women have come of age so have begun developing men-like ego and becoming finacially independent...or, women have begun becoming fiancially independant and so developing men-like ego hence they have come of age...
though for me this leads far back to the very moment of big bang with which everything started and so i am more comfortable with the first explanation.
as to men not choosing to marry..just as women have begun entering the third phase of men, the men have begun entering the fourth phase which is of masters and sages, or of persons who have gone beyond men and are now developing/finding both men/women or yin/yang in themselves...the reason most masters, sages do not get married. they are approaching One. (even modern studies show that boys of new generation are losing interest in sex or perhaps losing what are called T harmones...just as women are rather developing them...)
kamini, i would call those best relations as the union of two authentic human beings..or of two fully individualised human beings (going by C.G.Jung's idea that full individuation is each human being's goal)...they will be free in bondage and bonded in freedom...they will do nothing if expected but everything if unexpected...on their own volition.
"as to men not choosing to marry..just as women have begun entering the third phase of men, the men have begun entering the fourth phase which is of masters and sages, or of persons who have gone beyond men and are now developing/finding both men/women or yin/yang in themselves...the reason most masters, sages do not get married. they are approaching One."
Dear Harb,
Now you are talking! I agree with this logic. This also means that the number of Buddhas walking this planet right now has increased drastically. Which in turn means we are going very rapidly towards a period on this planet where many people will become enlightened at once.
Cheers!
Navin
exactly navin, the coming age according to my book is the age of intelligence/intuition/wisdom, of buddhas.
the motto of 'to know' (and to exploit) would give place to the motto of 'to be' (and to live and let live). i have called this the golden period in my book. which is why the last chapter of my book is named "The Golden Period and beyod..."
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Recent Posts
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- 04/08/08: Is the Universe (including life) a Purposeless Accident? Science of Purpose: Part 1
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Recent Comments
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harb commented on "Im single because I was born that way" - Mae West
exactly navin, the coming age according to my b
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Navin commented on "Im single because I was born that way" - Mae West
"as to men not choosing to marry..just as women
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harb commented on "Im single because I was born that way" - Mae West
lol navin, if we will not help ourselves who wi
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Kamini commented on "Im single because I was born that way" - Mae West
A very good friend of mine (who sadly passed a
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Navin commented on "Im single because I was born that way" - Mae West
Dear Harb,
LOL. You seem to be making a p
absoultely enjoyed very single post here.
Kavita I love reading your posts! So informative and thought provoking.
Has anyone read Anita Nair's - Ladies Coupe?
Its a great read - about this lady , Ahkilandeshwari, thriving to find whether is it possible to stay single and happy.
If you can, read it.
R