In the year 2000 I began an initiative regarding this Church, it succeeded.

I am have began the process of it's complete dissolution.

It's days are numbered as are all the religious institutions.

I shall not see myself suffer in Illusion but shall wake my Self up.

I like the old time religion
the strong patriarchal society
were priest have a "divine rite"
to rape pure , innocent children
all the riches of the Holy See
could not pay for one child's
lost innocence.
It is for the theologians to
ponder what is the greater sin,
the rape of the body or the rape
of the soul
God is a mystery not to be understood
by mere mortals, but man is no
mystery , his atrocities are well
documented

Love to all

I think it could confuse them. The biggest reason the world is so messed up is because children learn through experience and observation and there ain't many good parents left out there. Human beings are so unatural that its easy to see why we've become a race of monsters out to destroy ourselves, taking everything with us in the process.

Is it natural to be raised by parents who kiss and hug even though they are the same sex? People have witnessed male lions having sex with each other, male elk's having sex with each other, if it happens in the natural world then maybe for some its natural. The problem may be with the people who make judgments so harsh as to call it violent and immoral, that could really confuse a child to hear that about their own parents especially when it comes from other children at school.

Lions and Elks don't do that to each other.

I do pray tell perhaps some have not heard about the Bonobos, the only Peacful society on the planet.

http://newswire.pro/bonobo_sex_and_society.htm

Most intriguing is why.

Dear Mullica Chopra

I think there should be a graduate course that parents had to pass before they were allowed to have or adopt children!

I am not comfortable with gays adopting kids under the logic that if you aren't capable of even making children, why should you be allowed to adopt any? A loving, dedicated, and compassionate gay couple still don't have all the qualifications to successfully raise children in my opinion. I think Children need to see good examples of both sexes while growing up in order to have a realistic balanced outlook on life in order for them to make their own wise future choices. This is just my own opinion so you gays that want children please don’t throw any rocks at me.

I am also not comfortable with straight people adopting kids when they lack emotional mental or even financial maturity. There are so many ways to screw up children that it is no wonder we are having all these problems in the world today.

Kind Regards,

Stan

I am also not comfortable with irresponsible and messed up straight people adopting kids, and you're very correct

Aloha Mallika

I am sure there are a lot of other adoption agencies that will allow gays to adopt. The Catholic Church has suffered a lot of lawsuits from their priests violating a lot of young boys. They are just transferring their guilt from their unrealistic expectations of sexuality of living in a flat world mentality. It is about time they live in a global world where there are no sides. It takes a village, a world to raise a child. The Catholic Church is businesses that will begin deplore itself. Love patty

Hello Mallika and Everyone,

What can you say about the Catholic Church? Really, nothing good. The Catholic Church, in my opinion, is a criminally ignorant Institution. Their views on birth control help in spreading the AIDs virus to millions of poor Third World people, their promiscuity in allowing sex offenders ample opportunities to molest children and now this, speaks volumes about this Institution, and what it states loudest to me is that it cares nothing for the well being of it's members, what is important to this Institution is the well being of it's ignorant outdated DOGMA and the continued power of the men who spread it..ruth

Under God every single living things should be seen and treated equal! If that is the case, if If we are really God loving, then why we do not have the stomach to see two human same sex "bonobos" kiss and hug in front of their adopted innocent helpless kids and who in turn watch, learn and pick up the habit and grow. Has a *wild loving bonobo* conscious, rational mind, so to compare with a suppressed animalistic instinct of homo sapiens.

// I think Children need to see good examples of both sexes while growing up in order to have a realistic balanced outlook on life in order for them to make their own wise future choices.//

I agree with Stan statement, indeed, kids, in order to get the balanced view of a society or world they do need two different genders dimentionality for an event as it occurs day to day world, so that a kid can comprehend and process it on his/her own to have a balanced life to carry on. And this is also my personal opinion.

We should stop thinking that children and pets are the same (so their need also same). I think we should give a chance to those helpless kids, to live in a healthy environment where they can complete their developmental stages just right

Prabha.

One more thing to add to that post. In fact, in the wild, biologist say "homosex" is sort of Play Behavior or Psuedo Mating. Wildlife same sex uses it to show their hiarchy. I do not think it replaces the real mating behavior throughout its life by faking it.

Dear Mallika,

Children need adults who love them and respect them. The sexual orientation of the parents is not an issue. So many children are abandoned in orphanages even when their parents are alive.

Why should children be left without someone who wants to drive them to school, help with homework, kiss them before they fall asleep, and look under the bed to make sure that there are no monsters there?

I believe that some charities are based on compassion, while others are not, The current administration is rewarding faith-based charities, and naturally the people who are running those religious charities are going to comply with the desires of the administration.

While I feel the world is awakening and a new, peaceful and loving consciousness is emerging, there are still some structures in place that are meant to control the individual.

The suggestions that those political structures seem to give are the following: "These are the people you are allowed to love. They must be heterosexual; they must be about the same age; you cannot meet them in the workplace; they must be practicing a religion; they must vote for this party; you must live in fear; you must live in separation; you must take lots of pharmaceutical drugs and drink yourself into oblivion."

Too pessimistic? I don't think so. As long as we are aware of the truth, those suggestions will not become orders.

Wishing for an enlightened ruler...
Love,
Donatella

A lot of Babies being adopted by the BOYS.

I happy to report lots of children are being adopted by the "Gay BOY and girls:-)

I have a lot of gay friends and my children are partially named after our gay friends. Most adoptions occur between gay men. As most of the gay women can produce their own children. In fact, my neighbors two men have adopted 8 children. They have kept to families of 4 together. The family is a multiracial and gay family. I feel so fortunate to see these miracles transpire and despite what you might read in the news. Gay couples very much have rights to adopt. My only hope is it continues to get easier for them.

For some reason, the religious sector labels homosexual and pervert as on in the same. And this is outlandish.

The power we give to the fears in our heart leads us to a closed point of view.

Love and peace

I cannot believe the negative judgements on here. They are completely irrelevant. All fear based. How will we ever get anywhere in this world with this type of discrimination that does nothing to move us forward?? Nothing to evolve us. Totally absurd.

Children Learn What They Live
By Dorothy Law Nolte

If children live with criticism,
They learn to condemn.
If children live with hostility,
They learn to fight.
If children live with ridicule,
They learn to be shy.
If children live with shame,
They learn to feel guilty.
If children live with encouragement,
They learn confidence.
If children live with tolerance,
They learn to be patient.
If children live with praise,
They learn to appreciate.
If children live with acceptance,
They learn to love.
If children live with approval,
They learn to like themselves.
If children live with honesty,
They learn truthfulness.
If children live with security,
They learn to have faith in themselves and others.
If children live with friendliness,
They learn the world is a nice place in which to live.

There was only ONE Christian and he died on the cross!

The others just pretend they follow him.

Little do they understand that his was an OMNI-directional love unlike the uni-directional ones of the "believers".

He said "Kingdom of Heaven is within YOU"

To him the "You" was ENTIRE animate and inanimate creation.

To the followers it is "White Christians" at worst and "Just Christians" at best.

No one has denegrated Jesus - that EPITOMY OF LOVE - as much as his followers killing arguably the HIGHEST number of animals (US consumes almost a third of all animals killed for meat) and human beings in the history of mankind... all in HIS name!!

Let the pretence continue :)

Cheers,
Desh
Drishtikone.com

Homo sex is wrong!

I'm not sure anything that Ratzinger says is really worth taking on board (or infact taken seriously). He is a notorious hardliner who was chosen strategically specifically because of this reason. John Paul II was also a hardliner. Many friends of mine who are Catholics couldn't believe the appointment of Ratzinger-and also thought it bizarre that John Paul II in death was celebrated. He was homophobic also-and spoke openly about it. Ratzinger was his protege.

I agree with Mallika. I have many gay friend's who are loving and extremely good parents. The point is that there are may children out there who need a loving nuturing environment, and if the couple who adopts them happens to be single sex-does it really matter?

As for gay sex being wrong-excuse me? Human beings are entitled to their choice of lifestyle. It takes courage to live the way you want to live in societies where restrictions are placed on you. People's private lives are their own business.

Reading the article,I have no option, but to take refuge(para-phrase) in Rabindranath Tagore's immortal words, "Where the mind is without fear,and, the head is held high, Into that valley of freedom, let my country (and, indeed the bigoted world) ARISE...".

WHY CAN'T WE HAVE IT IN US TO BE INCLUSIVE, RATHER, THAN BE UNECCESSARILY DIVISIVE...That,TOO, SO-CALLED, MEN OF GOD ?!?!

Dear Mallika Chopra,

Sorry about the spelling of your first name in my last post.

This is a sensitive subject but one that needs discussing. I have no condemnation for those who want to, or like to, practice homosexual sex.

I liked Terri Lynn's post, but I have to ask her
If children live with homosexuals
Don’t they learn homosexuality?

I agree with Kamini that "People's private lives are their own business." However when those same people who want to keep their life styles private, adopt children their private lives suddenly become their children's business, and I have a problem with that when it involves gay sex.

I also agree that the Catholic Church has plenty to do in stopping priests from molesting young boys, but it has to be remembered that it is also a form of homosexuality.

This whole question of Gays adopting children, in my mind isn’t about Gay’s being good or bad people, or responsible or even loving people. It is about the fiduciary responsibility of the government to provide the very best normal environment for children. The gay lifestyle is very much in the minority, if it ever becomes too much in the majority then we can look forward to an early extinction of the species, for obvious reasons. Someone said that Lesbians can have children, not with each other they can’t!
Hope I don’t get tarred and feathered for these remarks, but I feel someone has to make them

Respectfully,

Stan

"If children live with homosexuals don't they learn homosexuality?"

So, if children live with heterosexuals, and they realize they are homosexual, what on Earth happened there??

WE ARE ALL CHILDREN OF THE DIVINE.

Being gay is not a "lifestyle".

Mallika, I only hope people's opinions will evolve. Thanks.

Dear Mallika,

I am a liberal when it comes to gay issues. But in this particular case, I beg to differ.

Except in unfortunate cases (which is all too common in the US) many families have two parents. Either due to death, divorce or youthful indiscretion there are many single parent families. I don't think anyone can say here that it is optimal. Having two parents IS optimal.

Mothers play a very important role in how children are brought up. The feminine character in all of us requires nurturing, and men can't give that, no matter what role they take in a gay relationship.

Similarly fathers play a very important role as well in a family. Women wil be hard pressed to bring the same kind of parenting to the table. Therefore they both have a role to play. Given all the problems we are facing in education in the US, it is foolish to add one more variable into the equation which is suboptimal.

I agree that there are many heterosexual parents who are terrible parents. There are far too many homes with only one parent. But, adoption is a choice made by the society. Society should provide the best possible family for an adoptee, and that option necessarily means a family in which there is a father and a mother. In extreme cases where there are no parents adopt a child, I suppose one could allow a gay couple to adopt a child, but not otherwise.

For me parenting is too important issue for it to be subjected to left-right divide.

Regards,

Ravi Kulkarni

Dear Mallika,

My opinions about gays adopting are not cast in stone. If I had evidence like the kind you are sharing about your gay friends who are raising children properly, perhaps I could change my mind.
Most of the gay friends I have didn't just discover one day they were gay. Many of them have shared with me that they were turned to homosexuality at a young age by another usually older homosexual. This method is not something I would trust in evaluating if someone was really gay or not.

As for kids who grow up in a heterosexual environment and decide to become gay, I would first want to know what kind of influences they had been subjected to by others outside the Family before deciding that this choice was really theirs alone.

While the on the ground realities of what "The Family" means may be changing, I don’t think the actual reality of what constitutes a "Family" can change.

It is Mother, Father, Child.

Homosexuals may try and play these roles even successfully but at the end of the Day they are still two Men or two Women. Not one of each.

I understand that this no doubt hurts the feelings of those who want to be or already are Gay parents and I empathize with their pain, but this is the way I see it.

With much respect,

Stan

Sexuality is a very personal thing. I recently had a gender maintreaming course in my office. In India now, there are three recognised classes of gender, heterosexual, homosexual and Eunich. During this course, they stated that we should be recognising different forms of sexuality. However, in my opinion, when you categorise people as gay, straight, bi, etc you are already marginalising them in society, not mainstreaming them.

I have a gay friend who was married for 15 years and has three children. he then decided that he could no longer live according to society. He now lives with a friend of mine who has been 'out' for a very long time. My friend's kids accept their father's new relationship and recieve as much love and attention as they did before when their parents were married.

Many of my gay friends recieve homphobic treatment at work, in life and such like. Some have decided to come out, other not. That's their perogative.

Frankly, if we start restrictin in society who can be a good parent or not, we are deprving many children of a loving environment in which to grow up. If we stretch this prejudice to older woman and men wanting to adopt-then count me out. In the UK if you are 35, you don't have a hope in hell to adopt..you're considered too old and I'm sorry, age sexuality has nothing to do with it. Children are extremely adaptable, and as long as they know the situation and the circumstances, and have the emotional support, they will be able to cope.

Each to their own at the end of the day.

Oh now I understand the logic behind the whole devine seeking individuals politics. If I do not even have an open heart to digest things like this blog issue, then how else am I going to be close to attain God? If I express myself, do not I show my ignorance through which did not I reveal where I belong in my *soul evolutionary scale.*

In this background, should I need to be truthful to myself or just pretend like I am also evolved, by nodding my head because majority say yes to it. I am confused, as to where do I belong. Retreat into a jungle to ask the same question. Enlighten me!

There is extensive social and psychological research (USA, Europe) over the course of 2 decades that shows that children raised by gay parents are just as well-adjusted, and actually more well-adjusted in some areas of psychological development, as children raised by heterosexual parents.

Opposition to gay adoption is almost always voiced by 1. people that hold fear-based religious myths about gay people, and 2. by people who have no close relationships (family, friends, co-workers) who are gay. Interestingly too, is that the majority of opposition in those two groups comes from heterosexual men. Which proves once again that women are smarter than men, in general. ;)

GOD, who is really thinking about the children?
Posted by Mallika Chopra

Well, my dear, that would be the law..
no kiddin'! don't count on the rest..
indoctrinated bundles of reflexes..;)

Two gays is better than no parents..
One parent is better than none..
A 'overdose' in the 'love' indoctrination,
is better than a lack of..
so..

The Vatican..even Polish people know..

'There is no business like 'God' business..!'
or was that ..politics..

Love, Passion!

This is in response to Mallika Chopra's comment made in a response to one of stan's postings.

You said that people used to have problems with mixed marriages. A lot of people still do. I know I'm Italian and fell in Love with a Sikh man. I live in Canada and even then this was an issue for my parents, his parents and our friends. Our relationship was put to an end. His mother found him a wife back home. My father and uncles made threats to my love to stay away as did his side of the family to me. The problem is that you can't teach an old dog new tricks. People try to keep tradition alive and when something seems unatural to them they will find a way to stop it. Why do you think racism still exists in our youth? Because these children were conditioned with the thinking of there parents who got theres from there parents and so on. I don't have a problem with gays or the issue of them adopting children and raising them. The problem is not them its society and ways of thinking that get passed on generation to generation. I don't know what's right from wrong but what I do know is a child growing up in a small town attending school will get picked on and beat up by other children because of there home life situation. Society has defined parents as Mommy and Daddy not Daddy and Daddy. It's not fair and its ignorant but in this world lies much ignorance.

Hmmmm....
Church is against gayness...
' ' birth control...
' ' abortion...

So basically they are all about reproduction and multiplying overpopulation. Why?

Angela,

I feel very much for your story and I agree to some extent except that this kind of thing happens within our own culture because of even caste differences so it is not so much a racist thing. And also, we live in a country where human beings can love freely without depending on what parents do or think. I do not understand how your love was ended by others and how he could be forced to marry someone else. You have the full freedom in this country to go your separate way from family and live happily together. I am sorry that his love to you was not strong enough for that to happen, just in my opinion.
I have several friends who have been through similar ordeals where they could not marry their love because the family would not "allow". I am sorry we live in a country where we can do anything and be with anyone and nobody can stop you. In the cases where that happens it is obviously the security that the family offers which is more important than the love and so that is what they go for. Because I also know couples who have married against the will of the family, giving up the property and perks struggling together but in love which is all that matters to them.

This may be a very unfair question but I have to ask: Do you think if you paid the family 10 million dollars to leave you two alone that it still would have been an issue for you to be together?

Rita,

I don't think that any pay off would of kept us together. Our love is strong but so is the love and respect we both have for our families. My father loves me so much and only wants the best for me. An Indian man was not the best for me. My father wanted to hurt him real bad and I made a promise to my father to let it go and if any harm was made to him I would harm myself. I know that sounds stupid and selfish but I had to scare my father so that he would not hurt the man that I still to this day love with all of my heart. What is love if you can't share it with your family? It's not about the security. Why run and hide? Who would we share our joys with? Who would we share the birth of our first child with? We would of been alone and discraced by our families. He's married 3years now and he has one beutiful daughter. We still keep in touch and yes his wife is aware. We have met and she is aware of the situation. Have you ever seen the movie Kisna? A movie about a British child who grew up in India to fall in love with an Indian boy? In the end he marries an Indian girl but the end of the movie after his death reveals his true love for the British girl. He did what he was supposed to marry and keep an Indian girl happy and loved. I understand how things work and I think I know more about his culture than my own. I still listen to Punjabi dance music, watch Bollywood movies, cook Indian food and pray at the Temple. Maybe it's because I come from a small town that things were made so hard. Even now when I go to an Indian video store I get treated like shit and I always get over charged for CD's. Why? Because I don't mix with their culture. The only place I ever felt welcome was at the Temple. Sure I had some people give me nasty looks but for the majority is was embraced with open arms invited for tea and to celebrate special events.

Dear Rita,

Whch country are you talking about? India? I think you are absolutely right on one level, that people who wish to do what they want, will regardless...but, I'm sorry Indian society is extremely rascist and intolerant when it comes to relationships still (in many families)- and is all about the collective and not the individual. There are many people I know who have been pressuried into marrying someone that they did not want to marry by their parents. More often than not emotional blackmail is used. The first thing that is looked for in an arranged marriage, is whether the man or woman is fair, tall, thin, same caste, no issues, homely etc, fiancial status, age etc.

Its nothing to do with giving up property etc. Its about giving up a family support mechanism. I have come across many people here in India, who still believe that mixed marriages do not work. When my brother married his university sweetheart, both sets of relatives on each side (she is english) said 'but what about the children, they will be half cast-which religion will you bring them up to believe in?

When my parents first went to the UK, they couldn't relate to some of the Indian community-as they would come out with statements like' Our kids can marry whoever they want except a muslim or an Afircan'.

My dad always said to us, you marry whoever you want-as long as you're happy, we're happy.

Unfortunately, this is not what alot of Indian parents want. Their happiness comes first, not their childrens.

kamini,

Those racist views are reflected not only by Indians but by many other cultures. You said that the happiness of the parents comes first. I feel that these parents think that they are doing what is right for the happiness of their son or daughter. My father is Italian and he works in a factory with people of many nationalities. He does not hate Indian people he just feels that everyone should stick to their own kind when it comes to marriage. I have Indian female friends and I have been invited to their homes and I've been treated like a queen by their parents. Now if I was to enter a males home I don't think that I would make it past the front door. Maybe not in all cases but for the majority. People don't want to change traditions and it makes things so hard for today's generation. When My parents were growing up they did not know of Sikhism or Hinduism or even Islam. Today in schools children are exposed to so many cultures, religions and different kind of celebrations. When I was in grade school I only know of Christianity and the Juish faith. In Highschool that all changed. I was introduced to so much more. I think that people think that with all the mixing of races the world will forget old traditions and cultures. I remember once at a comedy show the comedian said "pretty soon there no longer be white blak or brown, we are all going to be a shade of gray"

Kamini and Angela,

I totally agree with you, all of your points are possibilities as opposed to just the one absolute possible issue of racism as the cause-because of course there are several mixed marriages that do work.
Racism is certainly the issue there in your case Angela but I have been rejected by Indian families and I am Indian. As for a family support mechanism who cares about breaking a family support mechanism that supports racism? Screw that family and do for love!

There is this old bollywood song "jaba pyar kiya tho darna kya..."
Meaning, "when you have loved what is there to fear..."

Where there is love there is no fear or any sense of duality.

So far movies like to reflect on the issue of duality. People like the drama and they make it happen by percieving it that way, maybe also because it makes your life feel like a movie...

Dear Rita,

I'm with you on that one. As the going says, you can choose your friends not your family!

Kamini

Angela,

I agree with you. Rascism is not restricted to cultures. That's why I made the point that when my brother got married, even the english relatives were wary of a mixed marriage. To be honest, I have never ever understood rascism, and never will. It is a problem with ignorance. There was a very interesting documentary once, in the UK. It followed the life of a white english man, who had always been a member of the British National Party. In the workplace he knew black and Asian people, which was o.k.-but he would go to party get togethers and walk the streets at night looking for 'minorities' with his gang to taunt etc. Anyway, over a period of time-his black and asian 'friends' at work convinced him that at the end of the day people are inherently the same, regardless of the food they eat, the clothes they were, the language they speak. So, he was eventually 'converted' and joined the Anti Nazi League.

What I'm trying to say is that once you realise that there are different cultures and nationalities and traditions, you revel in the difference, not avoid it.

I'm an Indian and have been brought both with Indian values and Western values. I take the best of both worlds, but there are times when I hear people speak and just can't relate to their approach to mixed relationships. Who cares at the end of the day, you fall in love, you want to spend the rest of your life with someone-whether they are green, red, blue etc. If you relate to that person on some level and people see that you are happy, its ultimately accepted by everyone else.

Kamini

Kamini,

Thank you for taking the time to reply to my messages your comments were greatly appreciated

Dear Angela,

You are most welcome. Rascism is an issue that I feel very strongly about and always will.

Kamini

Hi Mallika,
Just wanted add my two cents since, living in NYC, I know (and have taught the children of) many gay and lesbian families. I can't stress how important it is for children to have loving and involved parents, no matter the sex.

In our school, we did a "family" curriculum where children had many meeting-time discussions revolving around what a family is. Although, with the preschool kids, you often got answers like "families have wicked-stepsisters..." we also had some really fascinating conversations where the children discussed how some families have two mommies and some have two daddies, but essentially, a family is "people who love you", "people you care about", "people who take care of you when you get hurt", etc. I think these kids are growing up in a new reality. (Hey, might make a good example for your new book!)

In my opinion, the Vatican is basically and antiquated institution that is trying to hold on to its gay-bashing policies as long as possible because it really doesn't have many other issues to stand on.

But thankfully, there are progressive Catholics and progressive thinkers everywhere who question the Church's hypocritical beliefs and follow the true nature of Catholicism -- love and forgiveness. Thankfully, many of my Catholic friends do and are not judgemental of gay people and gay families.

Love,
Kanika

kamini,

I know that we steered away from the issue of this blog but it felt good to share my story because nobady would listen. My friends keep telling me that i'm better off because his mom would of beaten me. I know this sounds stupid but the reality is that people out there just don't want to understand. The portrail of Sukha is that of what you see on TV znd on the news. People just don't get it and racism this ignorance is so hard turn your heads from because this is the portrail braught to us from the world and some people just don't know any better. It sucks but its reality. My best friend is a gem but she does not like "Brown people" she thinks that Indians Pakistani's and Arabic people are all the same. She refers to all these people as Muslims because she does not understand religion vs ethnicity because her opinions have been gathered and put together by what she sees on tv and what she hears from stupid people. It's sad because she is a good person and her intents are not vicious its just because she is ignorant to that part of the world. It's like American's who think in Canada it's winter all year round and the whole country is the portrail of Alaska. It's not I know that you know that but the majority don't and they base opinion from what they hear.

Gay adopption is morally wrong and gays shouldnt be allow in this world becuase gay people are just gay...

This subject came up recently at a dinner party, and I think the bottom line is that the Catholic Church has been on the hot seat for a variety of reasons.

As far as I know, gays and lesbians are not allowed to adopt (at least internationally). I think single parents are allowed to adopt. Now whether they are gay or lesbian is another matter.

But if I were an orphaned child, and once I was, I would prefer to be raised by parents who wanted me than to be raised in an orphanage in which there were few resources, few attendants, perhaps not even enough food let alone opportunities for education.

The gift of parenting is that it teaches a person to love something greater than oneself. Not everyone chooses that journey, but should they, there are so many homeless children in the world and not enough resources and people to care for them. Should we not be happy for the child who is lucky enough to benefit. Why should gender orientation affect one's capacity to give love and care and to receive it in return.

Some of the families I know and have the greatest admiration for in terms of family dynamics and values happen to be headed by gay couples. Marriage and family can be hard, and I say kudos to my gay friends who have created a better atmosphere for their children than what I have witnessed in many typical marriages.