I liked this poem, very touchy.

"Freedom, the word that the struggled minds never know."

this poem reminded me of my dream last night...

being pursued by thoughts of intense danger...

attempting to free myself by hiding away ...

to experience going deep...

into the underground ...

to embody a shape as if I was made of wax.....

Who am I ?

Am I this buried statue ???

oh no ... I heard ..

pay attention ...

listen ...

suddenly in delight ...

aware of subtle inner movements

as if captured...

by a dance with all of eternity ...

burning like a candle ...

as if commanded by an invisible will ...

calling me for my undivided attention ...

paradoxically allowing me ...

to become any form I desired to be ...

with no clear begginings or endings ...

boundless ...

connected ...

in this knowing ...

each time I melt ...

fully emerged ...

to the here and now...

I am free !!!

I think "Freedom" does not exist in relation to an antagonist. Perhaps it is a state of not questioning.

'I' is not in prison,'I' itself is prison but due to ignorance 'I' thinks it is in prison and so the everlasting struggle to become free.

prabhakar

Sex, food and material comforts

only things my body yearns for

I follow certain rules

to operate successfully in this society

My mind on the other hand yearns for

something more, consciousness, freedom etc

Enlightment is at the end of the tunnel

What the enlightened souls failed to tell me

since ages is that there is no holy grail

other than sex, food and material comforts

Shekhar,
I struggle to be free from my own mind, my own misconceptions, patterns and attachments. I want to remain in the center, aware and acting, yet not fooled by the play. Too often my mind carries me off to who knows where - and for what? To experience the same old thing! The same old drama and attachments.

I want to learn once and for all who I am. I want to make movies like you - but with my life - and then sit with popcorn, compassion and a light heart and watch them. I want to write my own script, not the script my mind clings to out of fear and habit.

Really, freedom is letting go. Consciously letting go. And then we find God. Not just the process of seeking as you describe. But complete awareness of God.

Love, Kristin

Hi Kristin: wouldn't the acceptance of an external God be imprisoning the self again? wouldn't 'his' rules take precedence over an individual's being and examination of self?

My reading of this piece: Since the expression is so simple; the author does not manipulate and dress up the language, he manages to put forth a very complex emotion in a simple manner.

The first three lines disclose the intent and dilemma. It comes accross as an individual struggle. The struggle between inner self and outer self - the duality of existence.

Hi Jasleen,
I wasn't thinking of and external God with rules. Personally, I dont' experience or conceive of God that way. And ultimately God is not separate from true self. Hence, freedom...

Love, Kristin

thank you Kristin :)

Freedom....taking fear out of context.

Enjoy your day!

Dear Shekhar, as per usual; you gently wet our lips with a honey-pot of thoughts; satiating our eagerness, to explore Self from self.

I too, often find myself, contemplative of an inner freedom, unrecognised to me yet; and yet I continue searching, carefully sifting through thoughts, to that state of nonthought, where freedom resides, inside.

Great to see you Shekhar; and continued blessings on your current film production - The Golden Age!

North

An Apology of a Spirutual Seeker

Sex, food and material comforts
...
Is this the ultimate truth of our exsistence?

Did the Buddha's of the past

destroy and derail the human thought forever?

Only in death are we truly free?

Is there any freedom from the known?

-Tb

Hi Donna, my name is Donna too! : )

North
http://spiritsinmotion.blogspot.com/

maybe freedom is when it does not matter whether we live or die ...

when human resistences melt away ...

love becomes all forms...

no difference ...

no distance...

like I saw when I dreamt with my father ...

who adored me in the best way he could...

there ...

where he is now ...

there is no form...

except in the loving thoughts we vibrate...

I recall sensing my father passing me ...

calling his name in the love that I am...

slowly watching him taking his human body form...

to look at me ...

as if I was eternity...

while I listened to my plea ...

Please do not forget me!!!.

to see him shifting into a formless status

while remaining in my thoughts ...

I am moving on ... we are done ...now we are infinity ...

There is no freedom
All of us are serving time
in bodies and minds

Good one Bob
simple and makes sense

Today is your day!
Time for your flight to freedom
Time to die to self

What makes for bondage?
Limiting the Absolute
to the self's ego

Freedom from the known is death.. and then we are living.

J. krishnamurti

What he did
did not help at all
his boat approached
the waterfall

Then he pulled
the oars aboard
and said Grace
to the Almighty Lord

'I do not hope, nor do I fear,
for ne'er has Freedom been so near'

What he did
did not help at all

His boat approached
the waterfall

Then he pulled his oars aboard
And said Grace to the Almighty Lord

'I do not hope, nor do I fear,
for ne'er has Freedom been so near'

jus be

Is it possible for man, for a human being, to entirely—and it must be unconscious in the sense not deliberately brought about—a freedom from all fear, from all effort, from every form of anxiety and contexts.
To understand it one must go into the question of what is change. Can our mind which is so bound, so conditioned by society, by our experience, by our heredity, by all the influences that man is heir to, can he put all that aside and discover for himself a state of mind where there is a quality which has not been touched by time at all? Because, after all, that is what we are all seeking. Most of us are tired of the daily experiences of life, the boredom of it, the pettiness of it; and we are seeking something through experience, something much greater: one calls it God, vision, whatever name one can give to it—the name doesn't matter.

But I do not see how a mind that has been so conditioned by everyday experience, by knowledge, by social and economic influence, by the culture in which that mind lives, how can such a mind bring about a total revolution in itself? Is it possible, because if it is not possible, then we are condemned; we are condemned to sorrow, to anxiety, guilt, despair, and all the rest of it? So it's a valid question, and one must find a right answer, not a verbal answer, not a conclusion, not an ideation, but actually find the answer to that question and live in that.

JK

Aloha Shekhar

It is content that we desire to be free. The content is fiction. The context is the field where we all reside as a non duel One. love patty

Dear Shekhar

In your freedom, you make space for others.

love, Heath

Hello Shekhar and Everyone,

When you are not busy being Shekhar you are being free.peace ruth

As long as we are alive, we can't be free. We need air, water, food, society, entertainment. I think you want a change rather than freedom.
Lets think smaller.

Why chose freedom when you are already free,
Why plant a seed when you have the whole tree,
Context of freedom is treason of the mind,
The pain is self created - in your behind!,

You chose, you bury every living moment,
You clip your wings, you torment,
Let go of freedom and ideas to arrive,
You are nature’s loveable son - no reason to strive.

Your struggle is all waste.
You want to be free
But do not know
What binds you to what

What freedom is,
What bondage is.
Yet you talk to free yourself.
Is your mind all messed up?

Talking of contexts
Do you mean absolute freedom ?
That freedom is your death.
Are you ready for that?

The problem with you is
Your unclarity of thoughts.
Language gives rise to ideas,
Ideas give rise to thoughts.

Your language is not precise,
So your ideas are jumbled up.
Language is our friend.
Language is our enemy too.

Be clear. Define. Be precise.
Learn first the lingo to philosophise.
Language is your enemy now.
It is your prison now.

Lofty idea of consciousness!
What is consciousness to you?
A piece of some super-consciousness
As most Hindus philosophise? Nonsense.

Consciousness is alertness.
Cognitive state of your being alive.
Cognizance. Knowingness.
Your consciousness dies when you die.
(Your are free without contexts then!)

It is a property of living beings.
Not that something nonsense interacting
Through fields with some other nonsense
Superconsciousness, as some ignorant Hindus define.

Does this help you?
Do you see some clarity?
Still muddled up?
I’ll be happy to help you.

Shekhar:

Be like a Pole Vaulter - use the context as a Vaulter uses a Pole.. and then abandons it when he reaches near the bar he has to cross... if he doesnt leave the pole - he will fall back from where he started.. if he leaves it earlier than that height then he wouldnt cross the bar!

So use context.. but abandon it. When the context becomes the obsession (inability to leave the pole) - the freedom is impossible!

Cheers,
Desh
Drishtikone.com

Thank you for the posting the poems.

For me, freedom is to be ultimately achieved from the mind. It is in detachment, where even the meaning of freedom is lost. When there is no intellectual dissection of the Truth or any ego to feel like 'I know' the Truth, we can finally learn to observe without judgement and be completely present in the experience... that is freedom.

Here is another nice poem... simple and pure...

FREE AND EASY by Lama Gendun Rinpoche

Happiness cannot be found
through great effort and willpower,
but is already present, in open relaxation and letting go.

Don't strain yourself,
there is nothing to do or undo.
Whatever momentarily arises in the body-mind
has no real importance at all,
has little reality whatsoever.
Why identify with, and become attached to it,
passing judgment upon it and ourselves?

Far better to simply
let the entire game happen on its own,
springing up and falling back like waves--
without changing or manipulating anything--
and notice how everything vanishes and
reappears, magically, again and again,
time without end.

Only our searching for happiness
prevents us from seeing it.
It's like a vivid rainbow which you pursue without ever catching,
or a dog chasing its own tail.

Although peace and happiness do not exist
as an actual thing or place,
it is always available
and accompanies you every instant.

Don't believe in the reality
of good and bad experiences;
they are like today's ephemeral weather,
like rainbows in the sky.

Wanting to grasp the ungraspable,
you exhaust yourself in vain.
As soon as you open and relax this tight fist of grasping,
infinite space is there--open, inviting and comfortable.

Make use of the spaciousness, this freedom and natural ease.
Don't search any further.
Don't go into the tangled jungle
looking for the great awakened elephant,
who is already resting quietly at home
in front of your own hearth.

Nothing to do or undo,
nothing to force,
nothing to want,
and nothing missing----

Freedom is what we all seek,

To be fare I have to say that we ,each of us were blessed with freedom from the moment of our birth, growing up in to a conditioned enviroment, a culture or a set of experiences has put each and every one of us in a cage in the modern world.

What is real freedom then?

When I first learned meditation I was told that in the stillness I would silently become aware of a body outside of my skin and bone, and I felt it as clear as day, the sense of none location or identity, just existence and being.

That is freedom, we seek freedom from the minds quadry of life, of existence.

All that humanity needs to be content is peace and tranquility.

Jesus once said that it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of heaven.

Richness? materialistic riches are worthless on a universal scale, an enlightened man once said to me "If you ever have the chance to win the Lottery or Become enlightened, Take the Money! because money will have no value to you after you become enlightened"

every morning when you open your eyes and are concious of yourself once again, know that you are experiencing a divine miracle right there.

You are already experiencing the power of freedom in its fullness, you have the freedom of choice and it is this freedom of choice that has chosen to feel otherwise.

Pain comes in many forms..... I have felt Pain that I would rather be burned on every part of my body than feel a depth of pain like this one. But I understand now that I am the administrator of all the pains in this world.

A wise woman said My tormentor today is the same tormentor from yesterday for it is no other than myself, will I use my freedom of choice tomorrow to torment myself again?

Real understanding is to be totaly aware of the now, be in this moment and experience it as the living divine, God is here in the sadness, in the pain, in the tears, in the love, in the happiness, in the music, in the shit, in the wine.............There is nothing but the now...your wareness this second is the divine in motion, in existence, in consciousness in everything in every place, it is freedom by it's very essence.

check out my easter presentation www.drdeepchop.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

Love Simon xx xx

Shekhar,

How write u r...we will not be backed into a corner...without a fair fight!

Baba,

What a slow LOCO-motive of thoughts! You're really good, CHOO! CHOO!

noname,

Old Celtic Prayer? De/ja Vu?

2 U from Me2,

If you create "good" karma,

Someone else will balance the scale!

You are "Free" to do as you please...

(There's always a butt),

Except defy the "known" Laws of Physics

or call yorself The Son Of God!...

For that they'll crucify you!...

Just ask my Lord...

Be free and Trust in Him!

What a concept...Have we thoght that one yet?

"I'm the gamble in the gambling!"

Have an open Palm Sunday! Now back to the Egg...Bunny?

P. S. Has anyone seen my basker?

Shekhar,

You can never escape life that is the price you pay for your existence, never can you gain freedom from the chains of experience, it is eternal bondage, you are a slave to rise and fall of the wave.

But Being a resourceful prisoner it devised a mechanism by which it could experience freedom even though it could never be free.

The name of the device is forgetfulness.

The ability to forget is a gift from that which is beyond what can be fathomed.

"Death as we know it is really the point at which we choose to forget."
~Richard Thomas
InfinitePlayTheMovie.com

(don't you remember?)

Tonight when you forget you will sleep, when you remember you will wake up. It is the only freedom you will ever know.

Insomnia - The inability to forget.

"Death is the only way out"

Character termination sets the actor free to play another role, and every character is subject to the whim of the writer with exceptions made by the director, and all is to please the audience, the eternal witness.

~Richard Thomas

Shekhar,

You don't struggle with freedom. You notice a struggle about freedom.

You don't want to be free. You notice a desire to be free.

When you realize that you are not the subject of these wants and desires, but the eternal observer behind the motions of the conceptual filter,

Then you are free, and know that you have always been free.

It was only your entanglement with the nodes and links in your conceptual filter that generated your identification with each concept as it arose.

Yes, there are prison bars before you. But they are the bars of a prison that you are already outside of.

It is only identification with the concepts that generates the illusion that you are in the prison.

Please don't tell me you got an MFA in poetry.
Maybe a BS in Consiousness or Self-Involvement.

I read this and think: please get a job. Volunteer on a soup line or something.

I guess blogging was my mid-life crisis, but you are healing me dude. I think I am ready to go back to reading The New Yorker.

strange dream...

watching a child carefully pulling out the hook from the sari I received from the depths of the ocean ...

oh no ... I screamed silently ...

don't do it !!!

that is sacred

a special gift I was given ...

and yet felt mesmerised by the action of this child...

noticing how my thoughts were captured by the slow motion of the child's action...

by the magnified rusting of the hook ...

as if in presece of an angel ...

wanting me to learn something ....

in my difficulty to let go...

in my yearning to feel connected ...

to a mystery I barely know ....

often feeling dried up ...

in my bones ...

what if it is all my illusion

a game I play

to keep myself going???

Pay attention ... I hear

look at it from high above ...

what do you see???

oh it is just a hook !!!

a reminder maybe

to what is I allow myself to be hooked to ...

that has no meaning ...

the reason for my torment ...

when in truth

I am holding the lightness of infinity ...

each time I choose to be ...

at one with each moment ...

hooked to nothing ...

that has power over me !!!

what a wondeful possibility ...

from feeling trapped

to a power

I believed I had no choice ...

oh yes God is a delightful Trickster

at times

taking me a while to grasp ...

in lightness ...

that knows ...

we are all part

of an ocean of grace ...

calling us ...

to be free ...

as we learn ...

to be awake ...

alive ...

and hear ...

in action ...

inspired by a vision...

that knows

we are infinity !!!

shekhar, my book Self Designed Universe began with the same question. Here is a copy of a few paragraphs from its preface which I hope will give you an idea of what we ultimately seek freedom from:

Preface

A sudden turn in my life around the middle years first forced me to leave my government job of a civil engineer. Then equally unexpectedly it brought me into contact with the latest in physics - especially with the fact that the scientists have reduced all the forces working in the Universe to four basic ones - thanks to Fritzof Capra’s The Tao of Physics. And lastly, almost simultaneously, it forced me on a long introspective journey – apparently to find my raison d’être in coming into this world - which finally allowed me to have an experience of the basic Oneness of All There Is. Then one day as I sat ‘lost’ in the experience, suddenly I became aware of almost a wordless dialogue going on inside me:

‘Mystics, philosophers have always spoken of freedom, liberation, nirvana, ultimately for whom and from whom?’

‘For this Oneness and from those four forces…’

This was followed in quick succession by the Universal panorama of evolution unfold before my mind’s eyes. I ‘saw’ that the origin and subsequent evolution of species plants, animals, man and so on keeping only our Earth in focus, and of all and every thing up from the Universe as a whole down to the least space-time entity otherwise, is neither the result of some blind chance nor of Darwinian natural selection etc but of the Oneness’ attempts at freedom, liberation, nirvana, or in a word, at disentanglement, from those four basic forces at myriad of hierarchical system levels.

The book in hand presents my attempt to explain the above basic idea further.
*****

I may add that at our levels these four forces also take the form of our senses, feelings/emotions, intellect/concepts and what may be called intelligence/spirituality. so we also need to be free from all of these to be really free and be one with our basic identity...which, like love, really is beyond description and can only be experienced directly.

Dear Shekhar,

But if the context is enjoyable,where is the great need for freedom?So,instead of struggling to get free,can't we work towards making the context satisfying?

vipin, u are saying why do we struggle to get free, If the context is pleasurable ? possible, but the thoughts that give rise to 'enjoyable' and 'satisfying' feelings bring with them the opposing thoughts that fear the loss of 'enjoyment' and 'satisfaction'. That is the genesis of 'atttachment'.
shekhar

thank u harb, and i wld love to read yr book as soon as I get through the making of Golden Age, shekhar

Dear shekhar

But if we are aware that life is a journey which has to end one day, is it right to cultivate feelings of attachment?That which was never destined to be mine should never be considered by me as mine.Can't it be as simple as that?

thanks shekhar, yes everything at its right time.

hello all! in continuation of the above question of freedom, some of you may also like to read a bit shortened version of a recent review of my book in Omega - an indian journal of science and religion indirectly affiliated to Templeton Foundation for the Advancement of Science and Religion. here it is:

*****
SELF DESIGNED UNIVERSE – A DIFFERENT DESIGN OF EVOLUTION

- Sain C. Vadakkan

Harbhajan Singh, Self Designed Universe (London: Janus Publishing Company, 2004), vi+209 pp.

Freedom, Liberation and Nirvana, in the wide variety of their connotations, are some of the terms that give humans an impetus to seek the ‘highest’ fulfillment in life and are the goals set by most religions in the world. These motives impinge on the religious life of the people, towards which all things move, even the universe as a whole. ‘Creatures’ are craving for the disentanglement from the clutches they are in. Every disentanglement paradoxically promotes an other entanglement. It is part of all an evolutionary process. The world-soul – use any appropriate term for it – evolves as the part of this becoming, which mirrors the inner life of its very being. Despite the pressures of winding and unwinding, there is an upward urge in all things and the Universe. The Universal soul unleashes itself free from all bondages, and in the process of evolution, receives different forms and presents its final stage as the Universal soul.

With this is predilection, the book on hand explores various stages of evolution, with the help of the most modern discoveries in the field of physics, biology and chemistry...The profound language of the book and its uncomplicated presentation make the reading very pleasant and smooth. The scientific terms here are dealt with from various angles and aspects by giving an array of examples that are intelligible to layman in science. The book focuses on a healthy blend between science and religion. By making use of premises in science, especially in physics, the author tries to prove axiomatically his arguments for the emergence of a new philosophy. Under the confluence of philosophy, science and mysticism, the work is an attempt for the synthesis of matter and spirit and of science and mysticism.
Thus, it sets out to introduce the reader to a new philosophy of evolution, a new spirituality and a new concept of science.

Harbhajan Singh establishes scientifically that the origin and subsequent evolution of species is neither the result of some blind chance nor of Darwinian natural selection but of the Oneness’s (Mosc’s) attempts at freedom, liberation, nirvana or at disentanglement from those basic forces – the gravitational, electromagnetic, strong and weak forces or interactions – of myriad hierarchical system-levels.

The author finds that the ‘Super-something’ of the religious people, Soul, Spirit or God of the spiritualists, Matter of super-symmetric category of the scientists, and the substance of the philosophers are the same, for which he coins the new word Mosc. The spiritual category, Mosc, conscious of itself, or Super-consciousness undergoes the process of evolution, and later gets disentangled from all the entanglements and finally unites itself with the One, the Mosc.

The author speaks of the relation of this evolution process of Mosc with the four forces in the universe. The Western scientists mention the basic four forces in the world – the gravitational, electromagnetic, strong and weak interactions. He portrays the Universe as a network of four forces. “…the whole edifice of evolution, the whole flow of evolution as it were, then comprises the efforts on the part of Mosc to regain its original state of Oneness” (p.3). A continuous, creative and corresponding dialogue goes on between that topsy-turvy virtual world and our ordinary ‘straight’ world during the process (p.5). … Finally, it gets rid of all the four basic forces and reaches the point of freedom, Liberation and Nirvana.

He uses the symbol of Nataraja which represents Mosc or Super consciousness and the symbol Parbati, represents the Mopc and four basic forces. Parbati, in the guise of four basic forces of nature, has held Shiva in bondage. The whole game of life represents the efforts on the part of Shiva to get out of bondage. The liberation is possible only through the mediation of Movc. Movc principle and the Mopc principle represent noumenal Universe and the phenomenal Universe, male principle and female principle, mind principle and body principle, Chinese Yin and Yang respectively. In connection with the evolutionary process of Mosc, he also explains the evolution of cultures, biological nature of man, etc.

It is surmised in the book that the evolution of Matter of spiritual category evolves and reaches its other end, Oneness. The author may deceptively tend to regard women as lower to men in the evolutionary process. He speaks: “As all the interactions further go through their own four basic interactions, women are further the product of electromagnetic interactions of those strong interactions…men of strong interactions of those strong interactions…” (p.29). For him Parbati is represented as Mopc and Shiva as Mosc. In all there is a subordination of women to men. In this modern world where people champion the cause of gender-equality the thought that women are inferior to men in the evolution process is not advisable. Though the author is successful in the systematic presentation of his arguments, he fails to avoid the frequent use of ‘I am’, ‘I will’, etc., which may disturb the readers. As a whole, the book is an attempt to formulate a new theory of evolution from the spiritual and philosophical perspectives by making use of the new discoveries in science. It is the genuine outcome of an earnest and laborious research.

Notes
1. Sain C. Vadakkan obtained his Masters in Philosophy of Science from Dharmaram Vidyakshetram, Banglore.

Dear shekhar,

I think if we do our karma with a firm belief that the creator of this universe is an artist beyond comparison and use right doses of love and reason to make the journey called life an enjoyable experience,the very idea of breaking free becomes redundant.As far as notion of 'attachments' is concerned,I wud like to ask-do we get attached to the furniture and fellow commuters on a train or plane?If no,then why shud we get attached to assets and fellow commuters on this journey?

Ofcourse one cannot expect to work out the right doses of love and reason without doing his bit of karma.

at the end of all the attempts to define freedom what I arrived at was confusion and it is the absence of confusion that is freedom for me.

To Mallika and Co. at Intent,

What a night we had here,some of the best stuff I've seen yet! But I've only been visiting for a short time.

From a newcomers point of view("I'm new to the WEB,too,probably obvious from my posts...) it seems to me like your new time slot,Weekly Intent,has brought in some more "initiates",not like myself,a heretical Christian Mystic(weirdo),but Shias,Jews,Buddhists,Muslims,Poets,Physicists,Biologists,Funny-mentalists(on all sides),Scholars,etc.!

Let us give a round of applause for Brendan McPhlips,not for his personal beliefs,but for the myriad group of commentators he seems to have introduced to this blog.

As for me,well,I rolled the dice and landed here,not by accident(by destiny),but because I'd read Deepak(along with many,many others, over the last seven years of my "mid-life crisis)and I figured I'd find just these types of conversations here...I think I'll stay...sorry,Brendan...a single parent only has soooo much free time,but thanks for spreading the latest "news" around the WEB!

And GOOD IDEA,Mallika,I can actually look forward to spending Sunday a.m.'s with views from around the world! I promise to praise as much as I bitch! I hope I have something of value to bring to the table...with senility a la mode and wisdom a la carte!

F.Y.I. The debate over evolution rages on...I can say I've done the research...I'm a reader of books...a dying breed,I'm afraid.

With science,we'll never be "done",the "Final Verdict"never comes in,we would all do well to remember this,I love it anyway! I believe in some sort of after-life also...I hope it includes at least a few final answers.Till then...!

My current read:

"The Spiritual Nature Of Man",A study of contemporary religious experience,by

Sir Alister Hardy,F.R.S.,Emeritus Professor of Zoology and Honorary Fellow of Exeter College and Merton College,Oxford

From the Religious Experience Research Unit,
Manchester College,Oxford...1979

(Author of "The Living Stream" 1967, and "The Biology Of God" 1975...brave man,huh!)

page 14:"Is it not possible that there are other things in the universe that are just as real and remarkable as the replicating molecules,the genes,upon which the evolution of those physico-chemical machines-the bodies of plants,animals and man-depend? Is it not possible that some of Richard Dawkin's so-called memes relate to other profound realities: that what we call God may be as real,and as mysterious,as is the nature of conciousness?That,indeed,has always been my view."

page 142:"Man has had so many of his illusions shattered and swept away over the centuries that I doubt if a change in our concept of the nature and the location of God will be more shocking than finding that the earth was round and not at the centre of the universe,or that man was not seperately created.We are now due for another change.

The spiritual nature of man is,I believe,being shown to be a reality. We now need a new biological philosophy which will recognise both this and the need to study conciousness as a fundamental attribute of life.

How much faster would be the progress if only a tithe of the resources devoted to physical and chemical research could be available to provide so many more to take part in the exploration. I have the faith to believe that it will come before it is too late."

Amen,brother! Explore! Yes! Carry on, you inquisitive and resourceful creatures,you! Let us do "the work",and bring back our tentative,hypothetical conclusions!Love,Me2

and shekhar, you are so true that the feelings of love, happiness bring with them the opposite feelings of hate, sadness, because it is the same one force of the basic four operating here - the electromagnetic force, the force of attractions and repulsions. we get attracted to the sameness of the soul/spirit in the opoosite sex but get repelled by the otherness of the body which manifests in the extreme when the body finally fully identifies with the ego.

subconsiously attracted by that (same common soure/soul/spirit)in which the ego is grounded but repelled by the ego which comes in the way of the actually becoming one. the struggle finally helps us transcend, get freedom from, the ego, and along with that all our subsequent thoughts/concepts/intellectualizations.

getting attached and then struggling to rise above/get detached is part and parcel of our evolutionary scheem of things. we just cannot wish away the attachment when we are yet not on the other side of this phase. and there is no banevolent god sitting somewhere outthere except this nirbhao (fearless), nirver9unbiased) scheme of things of first throwing us into various attachements - attachements of senses, of emotions, of intellect, of spirituality - and pushing us further to get detached, to get freedom.

and shekhar, continuing...your feeling of imprisonment too is so true....

as you will see from a few paragraphs copied from my book, this imprisonment, thanks to the third of the four basic forces or interactions, called the strong interactions, at our base is in fact the very reason of our becoming first human beings from animals and then developing all ego-related fucntions, of which our intellectual functions are most prominent. here are a few paragraphs, pl read when you have the time.

******
3. The Strong interactions:

If you have already begun feeling helpless before the enormous strength of the electromagnetic interactions, if your mind is still lost handling zeros in the figure 1040 by which electromagnetic interactions are stronger than the gravitational interactions, I am afraid you are in for a real shock now. The next interactions on the line, and as per our theory the main cause of the mutation of animal species into Homo sapiens at our universal level, the main cause of the development of specific human traits such as ego, the self-consciousness, the thought process, the language, the need of information, the need of exchange of information etc., Mosc’s equally tough sparring partner are further some 100 times stronger than even the electromagnetic interactions!

These, our very scourge, which have the power even to cause suicides in Shivas, in Mosc now in human form, are the mightiest strong interactions.

If gravitational and electromagnetic interactions are said to operate (come into the foreground) at the level of molecules and atoms respectively, with strong interactions we have - or our Mosc has - penetrated yet deeper into the heart of the matter.

These are said to operate at the level of the hadrons. And hadrons are all sorts of particles ‘residing’ in the nucleus; or rather, cause the nucleus with Mosc to ‘reside’ in them, thanks, besides their obvious strong bonds with the nucleus or Mosc, to their strong mutual-embracing nature.

These strong interactions, in other words, in the name of keeping these nucleons (another name for hadrons, further divided into baryons and mesons, and if you would like to have a real taste of the ‘dry’ description, having names such as omega, cascade, lambda, eta, kaon, pion, besides our familiar neutron and proton, and so on and so forth) in an atom together, keep ‘us’ under house-arrest: keep our Mosc, our ‘I’s entrapped inside the nucleus. In other words, create sort of a prison around us at our very base.

They have, as the scientists say, a very short range - some 10-15 meters (prisons are not meant to be long ranged, you know!), and are carried out through the agency of virtual particles of the same kind as their main participators i.e., hadrons, besides of some others such as ‘gluons,’ which also belong to the virtual realm inside the nucleus.

If electromagnetic attractions or repulsions were the main cause of the creation of the species animals, this cage of the strongly interacting nucleons was the main cause of the creation of Homo sapiens.

Just put a primate in a cage for a considerable length of time and he will begin to develop all the traits of the humans. Likewise, just put Mosc freshly freed from the electromagnetic clutches into the strong interactions created nucleic prison and it will begin to develop self-consciousness, thought process, language and all that, leading ultimately to man’s much flaunted intellectual prowess.

This imprisonment at the very base, in fact, is the main reason man - and only man of all the species - asks questions, and as a consequence acquires knowledge. Homo in the name Homo sapiens stands for the above-mentioned prison and subsequent acquiring of knowledge by them to free themselves of that prison, to outgrow that prison, entitles them to the adjective sapiens. As Jung sort of confirms it in one of his so famous visions: ‘Life and the whole world struck me as a prison…I had been so glad to shed it…’

Hi Shekhar,

Freedom is an abstract noun. So it is more about how a person perceives it. As a person experiences life, his way of looking at things and perceiving things matures and so does his notions about complex abstract nouns like freedom, nationalism, truth, love etc. as well as life itself. However this does not mean that a person who may be 20 years old has immature notions about these. I would never doubt that Bhagat Singh understood what freedom is? It’s just that these abstract nouns I talk about including freedom manifest themselves in from of experiences, moments, memories, expressions and feelings in the physical world. These can never be bound to any context.

Keith: You've taken to the Intentblog-waters like a true Nebraska waterfowl--and I much agree with your praise for Brendan McPhillips in taking on the role as moderator for Weekly Intent, except I do praise his personal beliefs; they are "inclusive"; rather than "exclusive"--one who may not have had the time in this life to devote "exclusively" to the limitless understanding that is available within the vast treasure-trove of the Hindu "religion," as it were--but one with the heart of a great Hindu, no less. Dave

Dave, ol'buddy o'l pal ol'friend,

So glad to be caught in our game of "hide and seek",or "tag",it's easy to get lost in all this variety of topics/maze,sorry I missed it if you've posted lately.

I usually am going to bed when you guys and gals are starting to "get on with it"! So I get up a little earlier to take a look/see at the post I left, kinda like a dog always coming back to smell their...you know...and I check back at around 9 p.m.C.S.T.

Where will you be on tonight's showless tell?
Or maybe you hit the town on Sat. nights? Have a good one either way!

I've always wished they would have dressed Jesus more like Krishna,I'm here because I philosophise more along Hindu lines than modern Christian dogmas and I believe that we agree on way more than we disagree on!

I get a bigger "kick" out of writing these than I could have imagined myself to. We all need to keep our sense of humor,not take everything too seriously and retain the ability to laugh at ourselves...Don't you think?

Catch you soon! Me2

Kieth,

To be privy to one religion or to an idea over another is to be dogmatic as you have mentioned you dislike,

Understand that to have a real, true,unquestionable spiritual understanding you will have by realisation a view point of none judgement, no right or left or wrong or right, east or west. If Christians do some thing or Muslims do some thing that may look or feel like a dogmatic ritualistic untruth, then know that it does not realy matter.

Real understanding means to know that it is all a game and that the omnipresent power can be in many different and illusive shapes and meanings.

Symbolic! LOL what a stupid word nothing is symbolic, infact that is just what symbolism realy is it is a sign that points to nothing.

The body combined with the ego is a form of symbolism/identity same as the religious games we play like children.

i wrote a presentation on Jesus recently which is full of symbolism, it has him as a body as a man as a person nailed to a cross, what does all that mean?..it means what ever you want it to mean, in it's real true essence Jesus or a cross or Mohammed, or Krishna or My Arse has no meaning what so ever, it is the human mentality that puts a silly emphasis on a sign.

to hell with that crap, just be aware of none symbolism, none idenity, the truth is right there in front of us all.

www.drdeepchop.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

Peace xx

Keith and Simon: 'ello Gents--Good to "see" you both here in our non-symbolic cyber-realm!

Keith--using humor is still the best way to tell the truth "about a thang," at least as how you may see "that thang"--as well as being "the best medicine too!"

You are inquiring into the nature of my most-busy social schedule, n'est pas?

Seeing as how it's all one perpetual here-and-now, with less and less of the demarcations of our calender time, I go still use one of Simon's non-symbolic, non-linear reference points to say, in "layman's terms," or to be bluntly crude in a typically American way, in "lay-a-woman's-terms" (first spoken in English by the Hawaiin King, Come-On-I-Wanna-Lay-Ou); I haven't even gone on a "date" in apx. 2,500-3,000 days--my drinking days are long gone too, which tends to make me rather boring in nightclubs.

Simon--here's a puzzlement then, for you; or as a "monkey-wrench into the intellectual machinery of spiritual analyses," something of an oxymoron in itself: "A Course in Miracles" says that words are symbols-for-symbols, thus twice removed from Truth"--and what do we then do with Carl Jung's "universal archetypes," the collective consciousness's visually-symbolic images--a language unto itself, that some who are born blind at birth, still "see" in their out-of-body experiences during their dreams, at night???

I don't have sound hooked up to my computer, but did enjoy a cyber-deaf-man's archetypically-symbolic view of your creative talents, Simon.....and.....

.....are you saying you've founded a new religion, one where the disciple-ship is to adhere to the worship of Your Holinesses Most-Divine "Arse?" (of course you would know, through your "Free-John" all-seeing eye, that I'm most definitely teasing your IT-Arse!) Dave

Keith and Simon: Maybe I do need to get out for a spin-around-town on this wonderfully warm spring evening; so if you see a powder-blue 1967 Bristol-Shelby AC Cobra heading directly at you tonight; it's just me, driving "my Kar-ma over your Dog-ma!" Have a good one boys--Dave

Dear Harb, great review!! Continued success.

north, thank you, thank you...and best wishes for yours...

Dear Shekhar,
You can embrace your 'imprisonment', and in so doing, you may find, a Clearness as you may have never known.

And as sure as the sun shall rise and shine, if you stay present to the Moment, your Freedom is assured!

It can happen for you, in any 'time' and place. It is easy and as hard as it seems to be. This eternity of 'waiting' to understanding. Of 'getting it'.

and yet,
It is astonishing, when It Happens.
It can take your Breath away, and leave you in Joy.

Don't fight it, don't fight your thoughts. Take my hand, embrace Me. I promise everything you seek to know, Is in you Now.

Love and Blessings,
~ Kate

We don't want to be free. All that we want to do is to play games with it and talk about freeing ourselves.

JK,
I beg to differ!
Words are a way to communicate,
but once you have a taste,
and Really
experience Freedom
You will Know It.
Then you Live It.
~ Kate

Dear Kate,

The search ends with the realization that there is no such thing as enlightenment or freedom. By searching, you want to be free from the self, but whatever you are doing to free yourself from the self is the self. How can I make you understand this simple thing? There is no 'how'. If I tell you that, it will only add more momentum to that....

JK

Hi Jack,
That is why I like the term, Clear Awareness.
There is no connotation, or association with it.
It's just,
Being in the Present Moment.
Ah,
that is heaven!
~ Kate

Dave,my bud,and Simon FreeJohn,new bud,

Wow! This is amazing! I can now sit in front of a screen...communicate in secondary symbols...and still behold the non-object of my affection! Yeah,it is though I'm seeing through the glass,darkly...or I need to clean my flat-screen and my spectacles!

Speaking of Arses...Ah so,I have to love Jews also. I'd never met a true one in my life,until a couple of weeks ago.

Sitting outside,reading a book at lunch whereby the truckers come in to get paperworks,a older gent stopped and commented on the day. No big deal,most of them say hello! But this man asked me what I was reading and it was the aformentioned book by Hardy.

I couldn't see the top of his head so I didn't know he had his little "scull cap" on. He thought it a bit odd to see someone reading in public,much less a "religious book".

I didn't get to talk too much,I filled him in on my studies(as a hobby).This very funny and jovial man,turns out,was a Rabbi on a year's Sabbatical. The Temple still pays him and he drives a truck for something to do...and I thought I was odd! A vacation,paid,for a year? What have they done right? Oh yeah,"chosen ones".

More srange and perfectly timed(Lord,your good),the fact that he specialised in The Kabbala,their mystic,symbolic treasure chest! I said I only knew a bit of it from reading W. Blake and C. Jung,both geniuses in the extent of their calling.

He told a few "jew" jokes,and I couldn't help from laughing and admiring the man. I could have talked all day...longer,but I had to get back to work. I was 10 min. late,but no-one saw Me2! Stealth as always around here,you know!

Later on,I thought of how my Lord was called Rabbi,and what a "happy coincidence" this indeed was! Could my Lord actually have been a jew? We NEVER were taught that He had a sense of humor...all suffering and sacrifice and penance!

For this Rabbi,the greatest game...the one your born how to play(no,Deepak,not golf) is Hide-and-Seek! For them the joy is in discovering,being the seeker and finding. He asked me this as a question and when I answered it correctly(I'm a father,it was easy)I said the greatest joy,for Me2,was to "Be Found"! For I was agnostic...actually seeking,alone(Lost?) when by chance or by God I was sure He had "found" Me2! I felt recognised...seen,seeing no visions but a fireball from the heavens dropped straight across the Missiuri River,where I had gone out to see the Perseides meteor shower and do some fake fishing(drink a beer or two).

I wanted to swim across the river(stupid) and see it up close(radio-active)but I couldn't make the leap. Five seconds later...still "stupified", a little fish jumped out of the water right by my feet and that cracked me up! One of the symbols for my Lord, a fish. I knew I'd been had! Laughing and giving thanks,alone,no-one else around to see but the Milky Way,in a(sacred)Indian Cave State Park, I saw The Light...forgive Me2 now for my zealotry...I think I earned it!

I was jumping and spinning and acting the general fool,alone with "someone out there" at least,of course,it could have been space junk falling...but if not...what are the odds? It startled me,yes! But I didn't think I was under attack,it was safely across the river,and there was no ferryman to help me across.I wouldn't have paid him anyway...you know what they say!

He said that what I saw was the "object of my affection", a symbol(however real it was).He said that dogmas and teachings are like a window you see through and you have to go around the window to get to the "object of your affection".

I took that as meaning nothing more,and nothing less,than "freedom of religious thought",and I appreciated his unspoken support of my research into the mystery of all mysteries!

I hope the folks here at Intent believe in transfer of information through symbols(In the beginning was the Word"...Om, if you have preferences).I hope we're all seekers and teachers here to serve and help with any kind words the assemblers need to build a better and brighter future! Good-night all!

Bubba-free Keith

Dear Kate,

Clear awarness is the realisation that no such thing as Enlightenment or freedom exists. Wanting something that does not exist is the root of the problems. Transformation, moksha, liberation, and all that stuff, are just variations of the same theme: permanent happiness. The body can't take uninterrupted pleasure for long; it would be destroyed. Wanting to impose a fictitious permanent state of happiness on the body is a serious neurological problem.

JK

Dear kate,

About Awarness again. Awareness has no meaning to me because awareness is not an instrument to be used to understand anything, much less to bring about a change. First of all, there is nothing there to be changed. Since there is nothing there to be changed, whether you use awareness or any other instrument to bring about a change is irrelevant.

Awareness can never be separated from the activity of the brain. If You think that recognition or experience is separate from naming. This is not true. Recognition, experiencing and naming are one and the same( whether it be, Freedom, Clear Awarness, Enlightenment, Chair, Book or whatever). Whether I name it or not, the very recognition of you as a "person" or the computer screen you are looking at as a "computer screen", itself means that the naming is already there, whether one chooses to use the word or not. That is the reason why I point out that word is the thing. If the word is not the thing, what the hell is it? It is all right for the philosophers to sit and discuss everlastingly that the word is not the thing. That implies that there is something there other than the word. So you may not accept the fact that the word is the object or the experience. That is, even if you say that there is an object or an experience without using the word, it means that there is a separation there. The moment you say there is awareness, there is already a division and a contradiction.

JK

Dear Kate,

If one puts into practice what you call 'Clear Awareness', he/she will go the way of Alzheimer's disease. I choose to describe how a person suffering from Alzheimer's disease functions. He have the 'key' there in his hand. But he don't know how to use the key and open the door.

JK

Dear Jack,
Ah, you have conveyed so much in your comments!

Words, are so easy to trip over. Just as when I am not in awareness! I bumped my knee so hard yesterday, and it stung, no matter what you call it, there was Pain! And me, not paying awareness to my surroundings :)

One of my favorite expressions/mantras is: "I love Life, and Life loves Me."

When I am Aware, inner silence prevails, even in the midst of activity and sights and sounds.

If one transcends thoughts and emotions and experience, one comes 'face to face' with I Am.

Do you Believe this to be True?

~ Kate

Dear Kate,

If there is pain you take some pain killer. I am not saying you should do nothing, and let the body suffer and go through the pain. You are actually adding more to the pain. As long as the pain is there, I might as well take a pill and free myself from the pain temporarily, because there is no special charm, spiritual or otherwise, to prove to ourselves and to others that we can endure pain. That is not what we are talking about. But what we can do is to leave that pain alone without interfering all the time. We think that we know what is good for our body, and that is why we are creating problems for it. It knows what it wants to know. It doesn't want to learn anything from us( I mean the thinking part). If we understand this simple relationship that thought and the body have, then probably, we will allow the body to function and use thought only for functional purposes. Thought is functional in value, and it cannot help us to achieve any of the goals we have placed before us, or what the culture has placed before us.

Our "body" and the associated thoughts are the only thinks at our disposal so there is no way I can transcend thoughts.

JK

PS: Anything that we discuss about pain no meaning, as we are not having any pain now. If some pain is really there then we wouldn't discuss it; some other action would be there.

while next to the ocean I came across a movie called " THE SEA INSIDE'

I was attracted to the title ...

as if glued to its theme ...

to find it was about the true story of the quadriplegic Ramon Sampedros...

a man who fought for euthanasia after 28 years of physical paralysis...

I was not able to see the movie as it would be shown after I left and yet for some reason the title stuck with me and I have been trying to get the movie ... to no avail ...

finally I got it yesterday ...

felt mesmerised by its intensity ...

by the images I have come to know so very well ...

the feeling of flying over ...

I often do in my dream world...

in ways...

so natural....

it became the air I breath ...

oh yes ...

one of the biggest hits....

his words ...

about this passion...

for the infinity of the sea ...

"TO WORSHIP YOU

AND PENETRATE YOU

ETERNALLY ,

MY SEDUCTIVE LOVER

THE BELOVED SEA "

How can this attraction run so deeply ?

what if this is how we actually meet ???

those of us who yearn for freedom ...

from depths ...

we can barely comprehend...

the death necessary

to be reborn

" in the purest of love forms

where balance is restored"

Love ...

inspiring us to rise well above ...

as whale songs ...

committed ...

to this force ...

teaching us ....

we are so much more...

oh yes ...

the angel sent to help him with his writings ...

struggling to see them under any special light ...

"Your writings is your voice " - he was told by his beloved

how strange ...

never looked at it in that way ...

oh this Hermit ...

in my home of expression...

forever looking for its voice ...

to find it is not mine to own ...

a deep conflict ...

often wondering ...

who lives inside of me ???

who propels me to fly above

to drop me

in bewilderment

wondering ...

where do I belong???

how mysterious...

as if Ramon is sitting next to me ...

asking me to let go of my fear of dying ...

each time I take flight ...

a necessity ...

in my longing for freedom…

" To live, you need to die " I hear Ramon,

no judgments...

above the rational torment ...

imposed mercilessly ...

on the self ...

" Why can't I be like everybody else ? Why can't I feel appreciation for what I have??? Why ??? Why??? Why this yearning? "

“Do not judge me! “ Ramon kept asking

“This is about me ... Ramon Dompedros... not everyone else !”...

“I want to die in dignity “...

the resonance in us all ...

no matter the scripts ....

beyond the paradox ...

when I look at Ramon's story it is dignity I see ...

in everything he is ...

like predetermined ...

to a script he had no choice ...

but to find himself ...

in its destiny ...

a lesson for the Hermit in me..

in this love ....

for beloved ocean ...

above everything else ...

oh yes I remember one of my dreams ...

long ago…

there was this child who seemed to be brain damaged to those he would encounter ...

unconcerned for any form of physical connection ...

he yearned for only one thing ...

to become one with the sea ...

watching him ...

in my inability to come any close ...

to connect him to life as I knew it ...

to find him often ...

walking on the edges of precipices ...

lost in wonder ...

looking at the sea ...

till one day he came down and walked away ...

into the ocean ...

without saying goodbye ...

without ever looking back ...

while I called his name ...

suddenly captured by an intense agony ...

“Please stay here... please do not leave ...

I love you .. no matter what “.

words I had never said ...

in my impotence ...

as if knowing there was no force I could use to connect him in the way I wanted him to be...

as in truth he never belonged to me ...

to anything I knew ...

through the power of my rational mind...

I realized then ...

he was born to be free ...

in ways ...

I would not necessarily understand ...

and yet ...

I longed to be connected to ...

in this merciful compassion...

this ocean of joy and tears...

where we all meet ...

Quote:

"When I am Aware, inner silence prevails, even in the midst of activity and sights and sounds."

"If one transcends thoughts and emotions and experience, one comes 'face to face' with I Am."

~Kate

Dear Kate,

Yes, I believe it is True "when I am aware" and if one transcends..."

But, it is not possible to achieve these. If you try to achieve these you are body is not acting naturally and you are going further and further away from what you are seeking.

If you ever reach the goal you would not be living anymore and you wouldn't want it.

JK

humm

just recorded Ramon Sampredro's last message to his beloved ...

"Out to sea and the weightleness of the deep

where dreams come true

to fulfil a single wish

your gaze and mine

over and over

like an echo

repeating silently

"deeper and deeper"

beyond everything that is flesh and bone

I always awaken

I always wish for death

my lips forever entangled in your hair "

the gift of the sari

out of the depth of the ocean ?

Kate and Jack,

Keep the peace,either way,it belongs to Soma,your mind/body collection of energy,matter and will(creative force).

Jack,

I believe you are saying,likewise as C. Jung expressed, that you cannot transcend "Psyche" even if you've been barred from the "word". Even in death,if there is Awareness,there is "Psyche".

Even when we have eliminated "negative" thoughts,actions and desires,we have not transcended Psyche,only the negatives...which in a dualistic universe leaves only the "positives",and that's a good thing,right? Psyche here defined as "The All"!

The big debate now,over evolution by natural selection vs. int. design,also includes the debate over free-will vs. biological determination and...most importantly...the question of whether "the soul" is created "new" at conception(or birth) or whether Nature(God) has "known me since the beginning,before the stars,sun and moon were put in their proper places,each according to their needs and talents".(Not a quote).

The worlds religions and philosophies(it's all therapy,right?)have argued this over the ages and I would like to see it debated on Intent at some time,if you haven't covered that lately.

I always remember a line from David Gilmour's solo work(Pink Floyd) when "transcend issues" come to the surface,

"There's no way out of here,
When you come in...you're in for good!"

If I don't have a biological body or sensations in the next life...if I've waited "forever" for this one...I figure I might as well enjoy it now...while it lasts,I don't want to transcend that,or this!

"For every change in conciousness there is a change in your chemical balance,and visa-versa." Aldous Huxley

The Kingdom includes Psyche,Matter,and movement,not just the "good" stuff,but "All"!

Have an Open Palm Sunday! Me2

Baba,
The Sea Inside was indeed a beautiful movie, and when I see movies like that, or see news stories on exonerated death row inmates, or Israeli or Palestinian families who live a very thin line, I think now those folks have something to say about freedom.

But I don't put much stock in celebrity contributors who intellectualize, and have even the freedom to do so, on what it is.

On the other hand, if he scribed his poetry from Arthur Road, now that might have been interesting.

hi shekhar, jack, Kate...

somewhere on the way to the final goal we have a sudden experience of what K calls clear awareness and which, using shekhar's words may be called contextless freedom. much like love, much like to what scientists call quantum jump, it then lingers...till we finally reach there where we will neither be nor want to be any more in the body. yet till that time we can pass the whole lives enjoying the memory of that experience and very very close to living it, just as again like those people who once having had the experience of love-at-first-sight pass their lives singing/writing songs in its praise....

dance kate, dance...

More basic than freedom is life, and if life can never be decontextualized, then no question of ever being able to free ur freedom from context.
At best, we can say being able to do so is utopian, but I cant decide if utopia is good or bad.
Also, context may be the source of purpose in life, and if so, then context is integral to life. You might feel caged by context, but then the urge to break free is always cyclical, and thus life can be said to be an amalgamation of jumping contexts. there might seem to be a blurring of the cage, if context is perceived to be dynamic. But then may be context of 'context' may not remain the same, if it becomes dynamic, for context is somewhere supposed to restrictive..
quite obviously, i am lost..

Dave,

I would like to answer your question on words but I feel that my interpretation of your words above mat not even be close to what you have meant or were trying to say, as they are just symbols of course and I was not able to look you in the eye or read our body language when you were asking the question.

On words, You and I are people who use words ever day in order to project thoughts and feelings, like there are people who drive a car every day, most of us who drive cars to get us from one place to the other, know nothing or very little about what actually makes the car work and the core physics of an engine or suspension, transmission and so on and so forth. Like that there are and have been people like Tolkien who knew the dynamics of words and language and could use language to give words form within the mind.

A good example of what I am trying to say is.... If I describe a place in words to you that I visited when I lived in Canada, Lake Louise in Glacier National Park, let me describe that to you in my words, you come out of the trees and before you stretched out into the distance is this sariel view, it truely is like nothing you have seen before, There is a breathtaking deep turquoise colored lake that looks so beautiful it is hard to belive it is real, The lake Looks like it is being cupped almost by the Huge hands of the Rockies that tower and basin the lake rising up so high that the peaks look like they are a hundred miles from the ground. When you look up at the mighty mountains accross the lake and see the shear height and how steap they are it makes you feel that no man could ever have gone there for nature would not allow it.

I could go on for ever describing Lake louise with words but realy it has no meaning, unless you have gone there and stood and looked at it and absorbed it's energy.

I could tell you what first loves kiss felt like with words, but they are only words, you still wont realy know unless you were the experiencer.

I could tell you what it felt like to jump in to the sea with words, but the words wont replace that feeling or that experience.

I once said to a Blind Person who was born blind, "What is it like to never have seen anything" and he got very pissed off with me and he said "You don't need eyes to see you idiot"

and he was right, The world is beautiful not just through the eyes but through awarenes in every thing.

One of the strangest and also one of the most enlightening experiences I had in my life was during meditation, and it is funny how each time you meditate you never know before hand how deep or meaningful that sitting will be, like some times I have sat and meditated for like half an hour and nothing happened at all it was like I was just sitting still in the body and so I have came out of it and got on with some work or some activity and 10 minutes or so later WAMB! you can feel 10 feet off the floor, one experience I ws sitting in a room with 5 other people meditating for 2 hours and a ways into the sitting I experienced something that had happened in my life and I re-lived the entire experience again and one thing that was clear to me was that my memory of this happening in my life was actually not accurate at all, even though all my life I was so 100 and 10 percent sure I knew what had happened on that day this re-lived experience showed me that my memory was not correct at all, and that my memories on this event were just my memories and not realy the entire truth of what had happened at all. So it showed me that my mind, my memories, my thoughts based on sight memory are not necessarily the gospel truth of anything, they are just my recording and they are and can be innacurate recordings. That kind of experience makes you aware of so many things, you realise that seeing through the eyes and the mind can be deceptive, and untill you learn to stop looking with your eyes and your mind and see with your heart then you truely are blind.

The whole ironicy about spirituality; is that:

Ultimately, there will always, be someone ahead of me, someone beside me, and some behind me.

I wouldn't want it any other way...

North
http://spiritsinmotion.blogspot.com/

Simon, I really resonated with your perception of memory-deceptiveness; as you self-described in your entire last para.

Amazing self-insight you have!!

North

Simon: I spent part of my ninth and tenth summers at Lake Louise, while going between Denver and Vancouver, at a time when my family maintained homes in both places--and yet, my schooling took place for two years, in B.C.

I would beg to differ about the heart being blind.

"As a man thinketh in his heart, so is he": should that heart be awakened to it's Heart-within-a-heart; so will it's spiritual eyes be opened as well, and "see" truly, as if for the first time, that it ever could see anything "Real" at all--maybe that's why spiritually-directed "psychic sight" is called "second sight."

This "sight" occurs when the mid-brain is activated in a way which further opens the pineal gland (the 'third eye'--as you would know), as this "gland" is super-sensitive to the higher vibrational light spectrum, as the rods and cones of the physical lense are to each other, relative to the more subtle emanations that "night vision" picks up on; which is why the pineal works with the melatonin/seratonin circadian rhythms that detect "dawns early light," while the physical eyes are yet still closed, in sleep--during that time, when the soul may be journeying about "the place" in an actual OBE.

How is it that the soul can perceive such vividly brilliant colors of light, without the physical eyes--maybe the "blind man" knows?!

Have you ever read Mary Summer Rain's, "The Wisdom of No-Eyes," about a blind American Indian woman here in Colorado, who lived by herself in the high mountains above Colorado Springs, and could walk through the forest at night to pick various types of herbs?

What were the mechanisms of "sight" that allowed her to do this, without ever tripping or stumbling, let alone "see" which flowers to pick, and then organize them in her cabin, for herbal medicines?

Good talkin' with you "Simon-the-Free-Man!" Dave

That kind of experience makes you aware of so many things, you realise that seeing through the eyes and the mind can be deceptive, and untill you learn to stop looking with your eyes and your mind and see with your heart then you truely are blind.

Yeah Dave seeing through the heart is real seeing and not just data processed by the brain.

Thank you North nice to converse with you once again, lots of Love to you guys.

Simon xx xx

'..how can i be free if
my freedom is always tethered to a context ?..'

I love the innerchild lingo, here my 2 cts,

Freedom from the know, past conditioning, to creativity,

(psych.) entropy vs. flow (experience)

Boring vs. fun,

Love, Passion!, guys, those are the magic words to transcend from the forth to the fifth spiritual plane ;)

shekhar

i think you are losing the plot and you are breaking my heart. God bless you and help you find a way out of this self indulgence

This is what V had to say about the post: "The question that has to be asked is who is unfree? Does the context tell you that? The context remains a prison as long as the "I" is there. When the "I" is seen as a fiction there is no unfreedom. That is the wisdom of the sages. I have gathered it intellectually but have not realized it.It helps to at least remember it. I keep forgetting it"

Dear Shekhar,
I was delighted to hear that you will be filming some of 'Elizabeth: The Golden Age' where I live in Somerset. I am a fan of your work and, although a Law student, am also an amateur historian whose passion is the Elizabethan Age.
Therefore I would like to volunteer myself as one of the extras needed - as advertised at the Milton Hall in the Blue School in Wells for the filming in June.
I would be most suited to the part of either a richer or poorer extra, as I am a 19 year old with the classic beauty suited to the period, long brown hair, elegance and poise, as well as being slim and a good height (5ft 6"). Please consider me for this role, as your consent to this would fulfil a lifetime ambition of mine.

Thank you and I look forward to hearing from you,
Cat Sayers

catherine_sayers@yahoo.co.uk

Nice poem. Not only freedom but everything is context bound but it is a pity that we do not communicate that way. If we could do so, half the inter-personal conflicts would disappear overnight. We all know that proverbs contain the distilled wisdom of the ages. There is a saying "Where ignorance is bliss, it is folly to be wise". All proverbs and sayings are for particualr situations but are not often worded that way. They are taken as sweeping generalizations which can be deceiving. There should actually be freedom from non-textual thinking.

Hiren,

Haven't noticed your name before...I take it that's your "real" one? Just wondering...

About the "smart/dumb" thing...

Who said,

"If a fool would just continue

in his folly,

He would become wise."

Applies to Me2 in this particular situation...

and I'm still waiting...no biggie...no problem,

Right?

My kids taught me how to use this computer,

I'm sure they have more to teach me!

I'm not foolin',have to go buy Easter eggs,though. Hide and seek...the greatest game!

Have a good day Hiren! Keith

"My kar-ma over your dog-ma": very witty David.

Also, Desh, and Simon and Harb, I have been meaning to give you your props (proper acknowledgment). Good stuff.

You too Keith,

peace