The fact remains though Vijay, that the government "allows" an addictive, cancer-causing drug, in cigarette "form" to be administered freely and liberally in north america.

Unfortunately; like anything else-people will develope their own preferences or addictions to things, like: cigarettes, caffiene, soda pop, sweets, fats, alchohol, drugs(legal or illegal)

So, really; what we have here is a failure of a responsible government, to safe-guard it's peoples against manfufactures which producs products proven to kill, disease... and disable!

So, if we stop paying for medi-care for smokers, by non-smokers; this means we would then have to cut medi-care for drinkers too; because I don't drink, so why should I pay for all the treatment centres and hospitalization and treatments for the millions of alchoholics out there?

See were I'm getting at with this?

IF we were to penalize anyone-it should be the government-heads, for their lack of will to serve and protect, and instead fall into traps of greed, which manufacturers and corporations and conglomerates provide them.

What amazes me about booze and cigarettes in particular is; they both kill people-and the government allows it's manufacturing and sale.. anyway-going so far as to lower the drinking age to 19 from 21, only to: include the "newest mass-market cash-cows", of our countries; which is our youth!

North
http://spiritsinmotion.blogspot.com/

Interesting questions you raise. On the face of it very logical but it could also be creating more problems than it solves. It's like a problem we have in some buildings where people living at ground level complain about the lift bill and question as to why it should be shared by them from the maintenance fund.

I thought there were laws now in place everywhere prohibiting smoking in public places. I think that would be a step in the right direction for starters anyway. This from a smoker! Actually I have cut down from being a heavy smoker to a very very moderate one and that too only in the confines of my own compound, the 'Boss' made it a law in our house a few years ago :)

Vijay,

I am a smoker, I have been paying taxes(high bracket) for more than 32yrs. Just like to know how much have you paid in so far..oh those lazy liberals.........

To further add though to the smoking debate and health care, Vijay-many doctors in the northern area, are refusing to take on "new" patients whom smoke! It's causing quite a flutter here-but, we do have a doctor whom refuses to treat smoking patients!! Young or old!

So, should people not get the same medicinal treatment for their addictions, simply because another tax-payer isn't addicted to same?

I think, if the government is going to continue to allow the manufacturing and sale of carcinogenic products-then, the government and manufacturer ARE in fact, responsible!!

North

Hi Vijay -

This is an important question and one that I could go either direction with. One of the problems with universal government paid healthcare is that there is no market disincentive to change habits. With private health insurance the market can control some of this. You can charge smokers or those who are extremely overweight higher rates for their health insurance. At best this provides an economic disincentive to practice those habits OR at worst the higher insurance rate helps to offset the cost of care.

This is different when it comes to Universal healthcare...and therefore a different problem. The government doesn't have the option to charge different rates, as the dollars to finance it come from taxes, so as you say, it only has two options: Cover or not cover. The problem with that is that the government then gets into the business of deciding what is healthy for you or not. It's a slippery slope that IMHO can lead to tyranny. If the government decides to exclude smokers and find that it saves them money, the next thing that can decide is that eating certain foods cannot be allowed: too much salt you're out, too much fat you're out, not enough green vegetables you're out, too many trips to McDonalds (yuck) you're out, too much pop...that excludes you as well.

Government (in a free society) MUST work differently than the private market, because the government has a monopoly on force. An insurance company can't force you to buy its product and live by its rules...you can go somewhere else. A government can force you to live by its rules and too many rules is a tyranny.

My point here is not to promote private or government health insurance, it is only to say that they have to work differently. So if you want universal healthcare, unfortunately the price is paying higher taxes to cover those that make unhealthy choices.

Peace,
Scott.

yeah, you lazy liberal buffoon. what gives you the right to talk about how the tax payers money should be disbursed. When did you reach these shores? A few years ago. Well some of us have been here for a while and all that time we have been paying taxes. So, butt out if you like but don't tell me what to do.

the colour combination on you is crap, too!

Typical liberal, despotic witch-hunting. If it offers you any pleasure, please take into account that smokers die off earlier than non-smokers. So while your non-smoking ass continues to burden the earth long past you're of any use to society, smokers will have lived their life and will be dead and buried. You, meanwhile, will be sucking the blood of the youth by making them pay taxes to support your never-ending life span.

I propose a tax for non-smokers because of this.

Obviously universal heal-care in the good old U.S.A will never be an issue

:) :) (:

So since 'they' outlaw everything else here in 'free' America: outlaw tobacco.

While of course concurrently making legal Mary-Jane's parkinsons, cancer, and stress treatment.

;) ;)

We could make mandatory tobacco testing 4 employment . . .

Lawfully require all smokers 2 wear a patch (like 'they' did to our jewish brethren, only this time with drug stimuli included) . . .

Do community service . . .

And if they continue to habitually re-offend,

to the gulag they go . . .

You go Divya (by the way are you a red-head?)

har har har har

peace

Just as a FYI to Liberal bashers; Liberals smoke too and I'm an occasional smoker too.

Divya YOU GO GIRL!!!

LOL Divya,
U've got a funny side too! I like that.

Cheers!
Navin

Aloha Everyone

In Hawaii almost everywhere public smoking is banned. And because of second hand smoke I feel that is a good thing. Smoking for myself was the hardest addiction I had to give up. I think it took ten years for the craving to stop. The cravings weren't everyday as they were at first, but they still came in. The payoff of course is not always looking for a cigarette or a light. And the gift of saying “No” to the tobacco industry along with our health care system. I would hate coming back to this realm just for another cigarette. It is much easier doing God and of course that is a God that is inclusive of smokers:)Love patty

Ah, give me a break. That is like saying should non-fattening food eaters have to pay for those who eat artery clogging food every night? Or eat at McDonald's twice a day? When will the liberals stop with the B.S.?
Big Brother, please stop watching.
Give people their freedom.
My grandfather was born in 1900--smoked, drank and lived to be 92--never had any smoking related disease or any disease for that matter.
God, liberals make my skin crawl.

My uncle smoked, drank and ate gravy on everything but boobs....and he lived a happy 47 years!!! So don't y'all be knocking them there smokers!!!

I love these kinds of posts!! Kinda 'smokes' out the liberals doesn't it!! I don't think there is a smoker alive today, that doesn't understand the risks of their behavior...so keep the govt out of it, let the market take care of it....the insurance companies will cover their risks...and move on with it. Why in the hell do libs always think they've gotta take more away from someone to give to someone else. I'd love to see this country do away with Social Security, Medicare, medicaid...and all the other bullshit programs that politicians have implemented...not out of compassion...but out of a desire to solidify a voting block... Let's either implement a flat tax, or a comsumption tax and this economy will roar like crazy!! It will truly be a land of equal opportunity then!!

If Craig were my neighbor...and needed help...I'd gladly give it to him...a few hundred bucks....pay his electric bill...whatever.... but I'll be damned if I want my govt to give him anything....that's not the govt's job.....(I love Craig by the way, and he knows it, I just picked on him because he's our resident wealth redistributionist!!! Is that a word?? In other words....he my damned socialist friend!!!)

Divya......If she throws me out....I still wanna marry you!!!

norm

Capitalism v. Care (there is only room 4 1). I wholeheartedly agree with you on this one Norm. We have to borrow to make more weapons and wage more wars, there is no way we can also fund health-care 4 illegals and deadbeats too: cut em all off and let money sort em out!

Yeah!

What is the difference between a liberal and conservative?

One talks about how much they love you as they exploit you, and the other talks about exploiting you in the name of love.

What is a Christian conservative? Someone who prays for you on Sundays, and then preys on you the other six days a week (plagiarized part).

What is a flaming liberal? A probably gay male feminist.

What do they have in common? Paying (war) taxes for oilmen, lawyers, CEOs, and Senators’ holidays (which, if you have ever watched C-span, is obviously every day for them).

What is a politician? An already rich land and resources owner who gets the best health and dental care our money can buy (and then exempts theirself from paying taxes too . . .).

And the joke is on who,

well, me and you,

of course!

Liberalism, conservatism, whateverism; please, anarchism shall consume thee all! I am with you Norm!!!

(man, those spammers are intent on destroying our intent, but, gambling is 'good' 2 so . . .)

peace

Dear Vijay

The smokers: My sisters smoke. One sister's had thyroid cancer and melanoma, yet still she smokes. Threat of early death hasn't been enough of a trigger to get her to stop, but a strong financial penalty is something she'd pay attention to. People have different sensitivities and motivational trigger-points. Why not use a broad array of incentives and disincentives to get the widest number of people to stop smoking?

The non-smokers: I recently became highly allergic to secondhand smoke. I'm paying -- with my health -- for those who smoke. My loss would be evened out somewhat, if smokers paid more for their health care. Some might stop. And the funds from smokers might help cover my needs if I become seriously ill due to their smoking. They're deliberately using a self-destructive substance -- and they affect others, too. An extra penalty sounds reasonable to me.

love, Heather

So, let us see now Heather. Your loss would be evened out if smokers paid more for health care? Watching a smoker sink into poverty would help you out? Do you enjoy watching pain and suffering being inflicted on others? Well, in that case you must be a big supporter of the Canadian troops in Afghanistan because they are getting their asses shot off in that country. Guess who sent them there? the big liberal buffoons.

Yeah, it's very ignorant and short-sighted to comment that smokers are somehow burdening the canadian health care system.

I agree with dulcie, how far can we extend that line of thinking? Should those that eat fast food also have to pay higher taxes? How about people who choose not to go to the gym? Should the government analyze and probe every aspect of our lifestyle and then make us pay taxes accordingly?

There are already taxes on cigarettes that are higher than what you would pay on other items. So called "sin" taxes. However, to peg it to health care is just plain dumb. The whole premise behind a publicly funded healthcare system, is so that everyone can get access to equal healthcare, money/no money, smoker/non-smoker, drinker/non-drinker, healthy eater or not. It doesn't matter.

rjp

Dear Sal

Why would higher rates sink a smoker into poverty? Wouldn't it depend on the rates?

Isn't it true that I will pay more for my own health care due to others' smoke? Couldn't that sink me into poverty, and even death? Is that OK with you?

Is your compassion reserved for smokers only? Do you enjoy watching the pain and suffering that non-smokers go through because of others' smoking? (And, do smokers enjoy inflicting damage on others as well as themselves??)

love, Heather

Vijayyyyyy,

You are talking just like any other liberal. One hand you want the Tax dollars from the manufactures and on the other hand you are talking about health care cost.

We all know very well that cigarate is causing cancer and Why don't we totally ban them ??.

Aloooohaaaaa

Yogi

Why don't the airline industry charge a fat person more for encroaching upon other persons seat, or double charge them for taking up two seats?

With obesity reaching epidemic levels in America, this is going to be a sensitive issue in the future.

Obesity might be due to medical condition or due to uncontrolled diet similar to addiction to cigarettes.

And also, what is the percentage of the obese compared to smokers? My guess is that it is much higher. Keeping the airplane issue aside, what is the risk of heart diseases due to obesity compared to smoking related disease? What is the total burden shared by the average person?

It is a question of discriminating the minority or
catering to the needs of vocal minority while ignoring the comfort of the majority. The Health industries or airline industries cannot afford to satisfy every one or afford to takes sides. they need to be politically correct.

Simple solution which most of us do:

Overlook it. Think about some other important issue. If you cannot think of one ask me.

Dear Hypocrite

If a person is very overweight, they'll be asked to buy two seats to be able to fly -- it's not just a space thing -- the weight per passenger is considered when the plane is designed -- total weight of all cargo (including people) is an issue, as is the trim of the plane (distribution of weight).

Currently, smokers are 20%, and obese are 32%, of the adult US population. Obesity is on the rise, while smoking is becoming less popular.

A thought: The motives behind rates changes in both the health and airline industries are cutting costs, and increasing profit.

love, Heather

Dear Heather

Fuel charge a passenger pays because of his combined weight is not a very sensitive issue for many. The real problem is encroaching upon a part of other person’s seat and causing discomfort. These people don't buy two seats. Airlines have no standard procedure to follow. They cannot turn down a passenger simply because he is overweight and causing discomfort for others. They will be sued.
How much weight is overweight? A person need not disclose his weight when he buys a ticket or checks in. If he is really overweight and the person wants to buy two tickets, most airline offer the second for a discounted rate but not double charge.

Dear Heather

Thanks for the figures. I am surprised to know that there are 20% people who smoke.

Dear Hypocrite

The very obese person has to book two seats if they can't fit in one (I wasn't thinking of the cost).

The encroaching is an big issue, you're right. Part of the encroaching is due to increasing obesity, part of it is seat redesign to fit more individuals on each flight.

In NYC, mass transit decision-making has created encroachment problems unrelated to obesity. Newer buses have less room between seat rows. Being relatively tall, with most of my extra height in the length of my legs, city bus leg room was already an issue for me. Now it's an issue for most riders, on the newer buses. Encroachment became an issue for new subway cars, a decade or so ago -- smaller seats have meant that all except the tiniest people, and children, encroach on each other. Now we have a law stipulating that people can't sit in more than one seat space on our subways ($50 fine).

love, H

to all second-hand smoke surfferer's! I feel compassionate about your plight! But, did you know, that more children are being born, allergic to car exhaust every day?

WiLL you put out your car, to save my child's lungs from you car-pollution?

Yeah, it's ok to pound liberals huh people; but, meanwhile, we are all floating ON the same "Noah's Universal Ark" arent' we?

I breath your exhaust-so please don't bitch about breathing my smoke!

North

Dear Hyp-you said: "It is a question of discriminating the minority or
catering to the needs of vocal minority while ignoring the comfort of the majority."

May I applaud you loudly?

I'd also like to add that, one might switch a few words in your quote; like:

BE-SWITCHED VERSION: "It is a question of discriminating against the _majority poor_ or non-catering to the needs of the _poor_ while governments lavish worldly comfort and convenience on the minority wealthy."

(grin.)

North

Why is it that we cannot espress differing views without name-calling and the like? Speaking as a very recently former non-smoker (I have 6 months on the wagon so far), I always acknowledged that my nasty habit was harmful to others and tried to modify my actions as best I could. There is no arguing the fact that smoking is very detirmental to the smoker and those who live around them. When we are in the grips of an addiction, we tend to rationalize as well as lash out at anyone who disagrees with us. I grew up in a smoking household and most of my relatives smoke. Now at family gatherings I am treated as though I have offended them simply because I quit!
Anyway, if we cannot even discuss the subject of smoking without such drama, how can we ever hope to communicate about the really BIG issues?
Peace

yup, seen way too many patients with smoking related diseases...its a burden on your health and on our health care dollars.

how about 3 dollars a cigarette instead of a gallon of gas? (and im only half kidding...)

I'll be happy when people realize that the cars they drive to the corner store, because they are too lazy to walk anymore, is also affecting/effecting people's health.

Why pick on smokers, when most smoke in their own yards, on the street, or in a porch or basement these days?

WE refuse to acknowledge the fact that, it is a combined toxic-waste dump we are creating in our air-this has little to do with cigarette smokers on the whole. On the whole, it is cars!

AIR QUALITY TEST: one fly-swatter. cover it with a sheet of bounce. Walk around a few blocks, holding it in fron

t of your chest(b/c we breathe from the front!). Have it tested for how much carcinogenic fuels collect on it, along iwth the dust, pollen, etc. and then test it for nicotine!

North

i don't agree smokers cause more of the cost of health. i have hypothyroidism and i used to smoke. my condition was not caused by smoking.

When I were in college, facts showed that alchohol addiction, and it's complex health issues, regarding addiction with it; and it's treatments and centres, is what's causing a huge drain on our medical system; plus the fact our elderly are living up to 10-12 years longer, due to health care and medical science, elongating one's mortality presence.

I don't have the facts to substantiate these claims; but, they are out there for anyone wishing to dispute them! Seek, and ye shall find...

North
http://spiritsinmotion.blogspot.com/

There are many, many environmental issues to be dealt with these days. But where shall we begin? Overeating, alcoholism, smoking, pollution, harmful chemicals in our food and drink, waste, wasting of natural resources, etc....

Perhaps each of us could start small...in our own homes by buying organic, more walking, less excess, being responsible for what we put into our bodies or at least using moderation, etc....

not preaching here- just thinking outloud....

Shanna, high-five, for everything you said! IF we all, each trimmed our extravagance's as far as fuel and hydro is concerned, maybe this earth-ark just might carry us all another billion years?

North

Today, the Grand Old Man of India celebrates his 137th birthday. His name is Habib Miyan. He was a member of Raja Man Singh's ADC Band group and retired on June 1, 1938. He has been receiving a pension from the rulers ever since.

According to a press report in an Indian newspaper today: The secret of his longivity is a well-balanced diet, no addictions whatsoever, meals cooked in rire ghee. At age 134, Habib Miyan became the oldest person to take Haj. Even today he can tie his shoelaces by himself. His name is already in the Limca book of records and he is now all set for the Guiness Book of Records. He has eight grandsons and nine great grandsons.

I smiled when I saw Habib's great grandson taking a ride on his shoulders. Wish I could post that picture here.

Cheers!
Navin

Navin,

you can post the picture in your blog and put the link here.

Cancer cures smoking.

And Jack Daniels cures hepatitis C . . .

har har har

Whoah--I gotta say something.
Divya called it a "witch-hunt". Why is it P.C. to blame "smokers" for all brand of evil--both to themselves and others?
What about eating at McDonald's all the time, choosing not to wear a seat-belt, how come nobody gripes about the masses of people I see talking on cell phones while driving--and who knows what the heck else they are doing instead of paying attention to the road--are they checking the internet, emailing for all I know--all I know is they are not paying attention to the road.
At least, if a person wants to avoid second hand smoke, they can
do so fairly smoothly--it's pretty much banned everywhere, if someone is smoking outside say, a shopping mall, a person could choose to walk through another entrance to avoid any possible contact with the smoke. I don't have that option when
every fool on the road is talking on a cell phone b/c they couldn't wait ten minutes to get home or pull over to make the damn call. I am a smoker. I smoke outside. Away from people.
I try to quit. It is difficult. But I am not endangering anyone's life by doing so (except my own).
Stop acting like smokers are so selfish and the bane of society. Haven't there been studies done that show that talking on cell phone while driving is the equivalent of driving drunk?

Hi Vijay this is a great post. I had so much fun reading all the above comments.

Those of us who do not smoke, who eat right, who do yoga, exercise, walk, meditate, do not drink alcohol, or use substances that alter the mind, let us take care of our brothers and sisters who like to chain smoke, eat Mcdonalds double cheese burgers, french fries, who like to watch sports or any TV instead of doing anything physical, who don't think twice before drinking a six pack, or do IV drugs. We came here to do just that. Let us put up with our fat fellow passengers, put up with the health insurance premiums, passive cigarette smoke and feel very generous toward our fellow men and women.

If we protest about smokers etc all we get in return is increase in our blood pressure from anger, resentment, and frustration. So let us put up with the things we can not change.

I would like one change. Make it illegal to expose children to cigarette smoke. I can get all fired about that topic.

Vijay God bless you.

Geeta, your post won my heart!

I smoke in the porch-when I can afford to smoke, that is! lol though, I'm sure me and my skin and clothes smell like a putrid ashtray; it really is a clinging addiction!

Legal issues involving carcinogenic products have proven time and again; that, regardless of legality-there is always going to be "availability" be it legal, or illegal.

Holland has shown us, that legalizing what people want and desire; has consideraly lowered many social-issues regarding drugs and alchohol.

Having lived in the projects almost 10 years(left in 2002) I have seen the decline and the oppression of the human spirit; caused by synthetic drugs(prescriptions) and booze!

WE are in a sad state of affairs-but, I do not believe it is because people choose to addict themselve's to anything! It is a peer-pressure issue, and a personal-choice issue.

Who is anyone, to say what one can have, and not have? Yet, like you say; we must embrace the weak; when we are the stronger-for one day, the embracement may need a reverse?

North

Dear Vijay,
What! Post the picture of a 137 year old man in my blog and put off all the pretty women who might come to visit my blog, who might mistake him for me? LOL. Noway.
I have a better idea. I am giving here the link for the epaper where all of you can see the old man's pic yourself. It's a free epaper.

http://epaper.hindustantimes.com/

Cheers!
Navin

Oh! And the picture plus article is on page #8 of the Mumbai edition of the paper.

Big brother is watching.

I see all those who are not perfect feel free here to throw stones.

Yeah, I would be a lot better off if I drank strained sea-weed for breakfast instead of having two cups of coffee thereby depleting the perfect, delicate balance of my equilibrium.

I also go to the gym 4 days a week, do cardio, intensive weight training, eat very healthy (no strained sea-weed however) but you might find me smoking a cigarette later on that night. But when I am behind the wheel, I do not have a cell phone in my hand, I have both hands on the wheel, paying close attention to the road, respecting the rules of the road and the people on it, unlike 70% of the people I see yapping about God knows what not giving a good goddamn who they are going to plow into while they are arguing with their cousin Edna about who is going to bake uncle Harry's birthday cake.

Unless you are truly perfect, have actually quit cigarettes yourself and presently do not have a vice of your own (nor talk on cell phones while driving) do not throw stones in glass houses.

And I will say one final thing: if someone truly is a shining beacon of health and perfection they should feel so truly radiant that there should be no need for the superiority complex.

And who are any of you to judge anyone about anything? Riddle me that.

Does doing yoga poses give someone the right to look into someone's soul and judge them?

Anyone who wants a world of perfect, tofu-eating androids is asking for life not to be life.

That is what makes life interesting, human imperfection.

Vijay: Having been an uninsured insulin-dep. diabetic for 18 years, I'm out of the loop on this one--I even quit smoking early last year, and then visited some friends in CA. late last fall, and poof--I'm back to smoking these cheap small cigars--but only outdoors.

Even working out again, there is no doubt that smoking is a burden in everyway possible--it's been years since I've even had a beer, and one day hope to free of everything unnecessary except clean air, clean water, sunshine (and maybe a Starbucks or two for the time-being.

What caught my attention about this post, and it's responses, is that I wasn't expecting to see you get hammered by anyone, for anything--as you presented your observations and position in a very clean and non-judgmental way.

It occurred to me, since stress is ultimately the number one killer, medically or otherwise, and maybe has a lot to do with why people smoke, drink, and/or lead unhealthy lifestyles--how much "stress" is "distributed, and redistributed," by people who feel the need to insult each other at every turn--like here--so Vijay, I can only "ass-u-me" that I join in that camp of 'lunatic liberals,' by the default of someone else's labeling.

Hope you will keep posting here anyway--I've always enjoyed your thoughtful contributions about "the human condition," and greatly miss those contributers who don't come back as a result of the personal, unwarranted, and thoroughly unfounded attacks by a few (who's stress-invoking contributions are immeasurable when it comes to tangential secondary health-care costs). Dave

...and Vijay: I took a closer look at your "color-combinations;" not that I'm an expert on anything, and I'm a "levis-and-cotton shirts" man these days, but I thought your dress combination looks very classy, with a rugged individualist's taste, and I'd hold only "Your, and Abi's" view of what looks good on you, as the measure of that standard! Have a great day, Vijay--Dave (again)

Dulcie, your comments ROCK!

I am with you all the way.

I have smoked on an off for the last 10-12? years, right now off for maybe a month and a half and plan to stay off, but I agree with a lot of what you said.

What irratates me is people who dictate what I *should* be doing. I love the imperfections I have--they're not bad--it makes me, me. Right down to the little chocolate chip cookies...

About two weeks ago I happen to be sitting outside a shopping mall and a guy came out and stood like 3 feet away from me, but because I'm still dealing with the craving I stood up and sat a little further down--he watched me and I looked at him and smiled and all was well.

But as to the question of denying health care costs to smokers? Absolutely not.

Will we also deny health care costs to people who eat too many chocolate chip cookies?

Of course you all know I meant to say the guy that came out of the mall and stood by me was s m o k i n g.

I guess it's affecting me more than I thought...

Dear all

If you're a smoker who thinks your smoking isn't hurting others, think again. Why do you think Geeta's up in arms about kids being exposed to smoking?

Regular exposure to secondhand smoke is the equivalent of smoking several cigarettes a day. Non-smokers who are exposed to secondhand smoke are being forced bear the negative health effects of smoking, though they've chosen not to smoke. This is like every time you have a beer or a glass of wine, forcing the people sitting near you to have a few sips of your drink whether they want to or not.

If I even walk by a corner outside where one or two people normally do their outside smoking, I get an asthma attack -- and on one even needs to be there smoking -- I react to particles of whatever's in the smoke that coats surfaces. I get an asthma attack from the smoke residue on people's clothing and hair -- yes, that stuff that makes smokers smell like ashtrays can make other people sick.

My parents smoked while I was growing up. Everyone in my family smokes except my son and I. I smoked for two years, but stopped some time ago. Years of accumulated exposure to smoke, which in my case was almost all secondhand, is what finally triggered this asthma reaction in me. This only started about a year ago. The only asthma reaction I'd had previously was sports-related asthma when the air temp was colder than 40 degrees F.

No one's throwing stones at smokers or being holier than anyone else, afaik -- it's just that non-smokers don't want to be forced to get sick. Secondhand smoke makes others sick, and the negative effects increase as the years of exposure increase.

I never needed asthma medication in my life before. And now I need it. Why should I have to bear that cost? This is not an abstract situation, it's a reality in my life. And it's more than expense -- it affects my ability to go places and do things. If I sound p-o'd about this, you are reading me right. Put yourself in my shoes and imagine how you'd feel.

If you wrote an irritable comment above, and you're a smoker, please think again -- you are hurting people around you -- I know this is not your intention, but it's what's happening even so.

love, Heather

Dear Heather,
You've given a very objective analysis of the issue on hand. I am with you. I hope smokers will become more considerate towards their non-smoking fellow beings.

Cheers!
Navin

Hmm, what is outrageous, is the fact that IF you are two feet in front of me, and breathing in second hand smoke; then, this means-the smoking person is ALSO, breathing in their own second hand smoke? Geez.

But, back to the blog-post and pertinent question Vijay asked!

Should non-smokers pay for the health-care of smokers?

WE laugh and balk at this outlandish possibility; but, the fact remains; it's been "under secret tables" already, for about what-seven years(wink.)

North
http://spiritsinmotion.blogspot.com/

Dear Navin and North

Thanks for reading my last comment. Navin, thank you for your wish for more consideration by smokers towards non-smokers. North, if you want to worry even more about SHS, read on.

Dear all

I googled secondhand smoke damage, and found this: http://www.no-smoke.org/document.php?id=215 -- if you want to get scared about this issue, check it out.

It says secondhand smoke is the "third leading cause of preventable death" in the US. It kills "53,000 nonsmokers in the U.S. each year. For every eight smokers the tobacco industry kills, it takes one nonsmoker with them."

In comparison with car exhaust, it says "three cigarettes smouldering in a room emits up to 10-fold more PM pollution than an ecodiesel engine."

And this: "Secondhand smoke exposure during childhood has been associated with an increased risk of spinal pain, such as neck pain and back pain in adult life. Researchers suggest this may be due to the negative effects of smoke exposure during childhood on the developing spine."

Dear Vijay

I knew it SHS had affected me, but I didn't know the details of what SHS can do. Thanks for your post, which made me face this issue head-on for the firt time.

love, Heather

Teetotalers and Vice-free friends,

Will someone please find the amount of TAX dollars represented by the participants of sinful pleasures.

20% smoke but 50% are over-weight and love "junk" foods.

We've had a smoking ban in place for two years.
It closed down several pool hall, bars and there has been a decline in patrons to the bowling alleys. Many jobs were lost, how many saved?

I see women chewin'bacca now instead...how lovely! Spit...

We need the tax revenue, I'll guarentee that!

Gambling's contribution here? No slotters here?

Sin, sin, sinful and simple pleasures, legal.

Tobacco goes waaaaaaay back, doesn't it" Wine?

You think we'll be rid of them anytime soon?

We have a lot of accounts of abuse by foster-parents who don't smoke or drink. What are the orphan's long-term prospects? Any Catholic Priests here? They don't smoke either. Sorry for the "cheap shot".

"Pick your poison", a southern sayin'.

"Mind your own business and I'll keep mindin' mine!"

Another one..."Don't mind if I do."

Thank God we have laws protecting a few personal freedoms from right-wing attacts!

"Follow your bliss!" Joseph Campbell

I am, I am, please forgive Me2! Keith

North, thanks. God bless. I wrote a comment on open thread for you.

David, you are so right, stress is deadlier than all the vices put together. I agree wholeheartedly. God bless. I have a comment on open thread for you.

Heather, passive smoking causes, SIDS, asthma, allergic rhinitis, middle ear infections, sinusitis, pneumonia, childhood cancer, and many other health problems for children. If passive smoking was banned from households with children, we would save more than 50% of health care costs in children.

Heather, we are breathing in what others are breathing out all the time. The other day I was sitting in my office which is in the back of my building. I smelled cigarette smoke. I came out and asked my staff if they could smell the smoke. A person who just walked in our office brought that smell. That means the minute this person walked into my office, I breathed in what he/she was breathing out. I felt so yuk to think about it. But it happens all the time. We breathe in what people are breathing out in India, or China before we know. We are always sharing the carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen etc with the entire planet. God bless you Heather.

Hey guys,

How about some tips on quitting from anyone who has successfully quit smoking. Cigarettes are highly addictive.
I am sure most smokers are not smoking to be malicious to others. They have a habit that is very difficult to break.
I know some go "cold turkey" but let's face it--they are few and far-between.

Dulcie,

Thatis a good idea for a blog.Maybe next week. Thanks
VJ

Dear Dulcie

Here's how I quit. It involved unlearning to smoke.

First, it was not cold turkey. Second, there are two habits involved with smoking. This approach split the habits, allowing me to train myself out of one before starting to take care of the other. When one habit was reduced, it was easy to cut back on the second habit. Third, the whole thing was an accident -- I did it, then looked back to see how it had worked.

The two habits are involved with smoking are: muscular, and nicotine dependancy.

The hardest habit to train oneself out of is the muscular habit, by which I mean going through the physical motions of smoking. These motions are reinforced by repetition, and they're also reinforced emotionally, when a smoker smokes in a pleasant setting (especially with friends or family).

So here's what I did: I smoked stronger cigarettes than usual, to give myself a very heavy hit of nicotine. I used luxury cigarettes of pure tobacco, no fillers, etc.

I had been smoking regular cigarettes. These new strong, pure cigarettes gave me such a heavy dose of nicotine that I got sick when I tried to smoke them at my normal rate. By smoking only as many strong cigarettes a day as I needed for my nicotine habit, I was cutting my smoking down by about half, in terms of the number of cigarettes I smoked each day. I kept smoking this way for about two months. Then one day, I noticed that I didn't have that need to reach for the cigarettes and lighter, light up, and puff away -- I'd inadvertently trained myself out of the physical habit of smoking.

So I experimented, by reducing the number of strong cigarettes I smoked, by about one-half cigarette per day, each week. I was smoking 20 strong cigarettes a day. So I cut back to 19.5 a day, for a week. The next week, I cut back to 19 a day. And so on. When I was down to 1.5 cigarettes per day, I looked at what I was doing, and threw my cigarettes away. I'd weaned myself off my nicotine habit, and my need to go through the motions of smoking had disappeared.

This approach was inexpensive (more expensive cigarettes -- but fewer of them -- comes to about the same cost each week). It was also easy. And it was even painless! There was no sense of deprivation at all.

Few quitting methods deal with the fact that there are two habits involved. Few quitting methods realize that just as one can be trained to perform motions through repetition, so one can also be trained to stop performing the same motions, through reduction of repetitions.

I stopped this way on my own accidentally. Only later did I find out that my mother had used the same method (just a different choice of strong smokes -- my mother used small cigars!) to stop.

I'm so well-trained out of smoking that in the first few years after I stopped, when friends would press cigarettes on me at parties, etc., I'd take a few puffs, then put the cigarettes aside and forget them -- no desire to smoke again ever reared its head, because I'd become untrained from smoking. My mother similarly never smoked again from the day she quit using this method, until she passed away a couple of years ago. (She had tried to quit many times before, using other methods, and had always gone back to smoking.)

I don't know if this method would work for other people. But no other method that I've heard of addresses how to unlearn that need to pick up a cigarette, light it, and take a drag, especially when one is out with friends who smoke too. This technique did handle that issue -- and successfully (though the whole thing was completely serendipitous -- still, it worked).

I think I've posted this before, somewhere -- maybe here on Intentblog -- so, if anyone has read this before from me, sorry -- but this worked for me (and my mother), and it's always amazed me how simple and effective it was.

love, Heather

Aloha dulcie and Everyone

I did quit smoking cold turkey. It wasn’t easy. I couldn’t do things that I normally do because I did them smoking. I learned to sit on my hands. That was a long time ago:) I had escalated up to about two packs a day. I smoked everywhere over everything.

What I find interesting today about not smoking is I am alert enough to stay conscious when my adrenalines light up. In my work I have a Client with Alzheimer’s and a friend whose mother has Alzheimer’s. In listening to Dr. Joseph Dispenza December 9th interview on Beyond the Ordinary dot net,
http://www.beyondtheordinary.net/joedispenza.shtml I realize the importance is in how we interact with our environment can change the risks of Alzheimer’s or dementia.

For an example: At the last job I had two of my co-workers went to our employment therapist. We had a boss was a hatchet. He made our work environment Hell. We were wait help and made very good money. Our boss you could never please, you could never be good enough etc. Well our employment therapist told us that he was a paper dragon. She suggested that we create our own value list of how we were conducting our work. And then we could do three things: fight, ignore or detach when he went after us. The first two had consequences. And that is where I feel Dr. Joseph Dispenza comes in where the neurons could die. Sometimes you had to fight or ignore or do both to detach. The key was to be a hatchet of forgiveness. In being a hatchet of forgiveness you create new path ways for the neurons for you go into a new territory. Your environment changes through your interactions. Heaven is a state of attitude, which is just a cluster of thoughts.

So it is a new rush, one that you don’t fear loosing your mind:) All disease is a thinking disease based on fear (false evidence appearing real). It is to go through the fears for there is noting there. Our mind will always create problems for that is what validates it. It is to be the non-thinker (Bless those who mirror us with dementia or Alzheimer’s) for we are all the non-doers:) It is to be consciousness. Giving up smoking is a b---- but so very worth it. I don’t know if anyone has heard of Lenny Bruce? His wife Honey told me it was harder than heroin. And I believe it because of the illusion that it helps you function.

love patty

Dulcie, please forgive me for my "holier than thou attitude" in my comment. All I mean to say is those who have cultivated good habits embrace those who have some bad habits.

Dulcie try hypnosis to quit smoking. I have not done long distance hypnosis for quitting smoking or anything else. Talk to psychologists or Reiki practitioners to see if any one can do it.

All the best. God bless.

Hey Heather, Patty and Geeta,

Thank you for all the suggestions. I have found that the older a person gets the harder it is to quit. I quit for several years in my early twenties using exercise, and it worked with no serious withdrawal. And then, I obviously started up again in late twenties (mistake) and, I will say, it is a whole different ballgame (trying to quit).
Heather, you are right there are those two different aspects--glad to hear you were able to "outsmart" the cigarettes. And thanks for the advice.
Patty, I applaud you for being able to quit cold turkey--that is obviously an amazing feat.
Geeta, no need to apologize at all--my comments were not addressed towards anyone specifically at all--just to the P.C. culture so to speak--but then I felt a little bad and decided I should tone it down a little and maybe change the angle a little.
I would definitely try hypnosis--I know someone who had great success with that.
Thanks for all the advice.
Did not mean to glorify smoking in my post.

Aloha dulcie

I went back and read your posts and it sounds like your doing really well. One of my girlfriends finally was able to quit after many tries. You have to get past that two year point to really feel like you are making progress. Your days will really matter after that point. I don’t know why but I know I had quit for three month prior and it took a long time (years) before I could just cold turkey after that. And you have to keep remembering the one who keeps trying quits. When I quit I went right into food and it is still a challenge for me. I loose wait and regain:)

The important part It is how we respond vs. react to stimulus. We are all learning to trust God exclusively. When giving up a habit it is like changing seats on the Titanic. They have support groups online. Just be careful they have a saying HALT, don’t get too hungry, angry, lonely, and tired. Stay out of slippery places where everyone is smoking. If you have to attend for business or some reason remember it is a crime scene and your not willing to commit that crime to your self. And how wonderful you can stretch and breathe with yoga.

My little granddaughter has asthma and today we had quite a talk about my son’s smoking. Smoking is a heart breaking disease to all involved. So dulcie know you are what is of value. You are the fire that doesn’t go out. We live in a field of empathy and compassion. There is no judgment. We are all learning to be light on self. Love patty

Dulcie,

Here's how I quit once and for all. I quit by unattaching myself from cigarettes in every way I can.

In no order,

I quit buying cigarettes.
I quit buying cool lighters.
I threw away all my cool lighters.
I threw away my ashtrays.
I quit hanging out with people that smoke constantly.
I quit counting the days that I hadn't smoked.
And each time I've quit, I realized I could breathe better.
I realized I smelled better.
I realized my car smelled better.
I realized I was saving about 50 dollars a month.

But the thing I think has helped me the most this time is instead of getting all mad at myself like I do and saying that that was going to be my last cigarette, I said something else--I said that it might be my last cigarette, or it might not. Maybe I'd have one tomorrow, but maybe not. If I did, well then I did. I just didn't tell myself no.

So far it's working..??

The craving is there but I keep thinking that maybe I'll have one another day. Just not to limit myself!

Why does everybody talk about my drinking,
but nobody about my thirst?

?

It's a fourth and fifth chakra thing,
but you may, call an addiction, whatever
your micro-computer, neuro-associated,
and wrapped up..;)

Love, Passion!

Heather, great stats and method to quit smoking, thanks!

North

Question: Why does everybody talk about my drinking, but nobody about my thirst?

Answer: Dear Thirsty One,
Drinking leads to thirst and thirst leads to drinking. It is a vicious cycle. There is no spiritual insight here. But note the subtler insight: when you are drunk and THIRSTY, you cannot satisfy their thirst. Your kundalinis and chakras go to sleep and you cannot awaken them!

Patty and Tiffany,

Thanks for so many great tips--it is awfully nice of you all to take the time to post these. I am going to read and reread all of them. I will say that I smoked half the amount I usually do today--I caved in and did some yoga first thing in the morning--I remembered that that had helped me in the past but then you just get back into old habits. It is this Ashtanga yoga tape that I have--coincidentally whatever this one kind of yoga does--it lengthens your breathing--I don't know if it relaxes you or what but it makes you not crave that inhale, exhale sensation you get when smoking a cigarette. And it makes you not want as many cigarettes. It is weird--it works really well in a way other exercise (and some other kinds of yoga I think) does not. I had just kind of forgotten that when I did the tape a long time ago it really decreased my smoking that time I did it. I feel pretty good. Thanks you all--so many great tips--I am sure that there have to be some other smokers out there on intentblog you all helped out too :)

Papa Answers, since Chakras are in the astral body they do not sleep, eat, drink, bathe, see, hear, touch, taste etc, as far as I know. God bless you.

Good luck quitting Dulcie. I know my tips aren't the normal but I found that the normal didn't work for me. I think my ideas are more like I'm tricking myself. You know...well, maybe I'll have one tomorrow or next week--that kind of thing. It doesn't mean I'll start again, it just means I'll have one *later*.

Again, good luck. Do whatever it takes. :)

Democrates pretend like these types of inequities don't exist. When you bring them up, they call you a racisit nazi. So I guess the question is, what would nazis do? (WWND).