Dear Deepak, a few years ago, I remember posting a long article on the North Korean threat online. Everyone laughed at me, scoffed the idea; the NK's would one day, force our hand.

They are "sleepers" at best.

Hmm.. I guess, they are not laughing now, huh?

North Korea is known for holding a grudge. They have not forgiven the world, for the Korean war.

We must realize, that North Korean's are kept in complete ignorance of the outside world. It's people locked by force, behind giant walls. Nobody gets out, nobody is allowed IN.

The people of North Korea, do nothing but soldier-build, generation after generation, "since" the Korean war!!!

This is all they learn how to do. Soldier. That's it, that's all.

People are dying of starvation in North Korea. What kind of leadership would allow their own people to starve to death... and keep them in ignorant darkness about the world--over a war-grudge?

The North Korean Leader; is merely using mental terrorism strategies; to keep their people towed in line. I would be willing to place a bet; that the majority of people in NK--would crave their freedom from NK.

Fear.. is a great socializing agent & generator of force "from" fear.

The whole world, seems to have developed a post traumatic stress disorder... from fear.

Fear in knowing.. that one day... our turn(north america) will come, to be "untouchable."

North

The world is out of balance because of the suppresion of feminine energy. Is it any suprise that cultures that allow honor killings and burning of women are rife with conflict?

I will tell you right now any culture, religion, race, or society that permits any violence towards women or that hinders their freedom of expression in any way is doomed and targeted for termination. it is simply a natural process, cause and effect, self destruction.

We need to bring the women of the world to power that is where our attention should be.

One of the first actions would be a Global boycott of India by the worlds women and many men I would hope. Who will only deal with businesses owned and run by women. This is how we will passively put the women of India in power. Failure to prosecute and place into contemplation centers men who commit such acts will result in sanctions.

The awareness campaigns with pictures are going to be dramatic.

I just put out the ideas, worthy or not, then they take on their own life.

Dear Deepak,
As a spiritual teacher said, we can sweet talk even our enemies with good results. I am definitely for dialogue with the enemies of the U.S., whether our country's foreign policy is to be blamed for the current anti-Americanism or not. The alternative, more wars, is not an option in an era of atom bombs, and if we care for peace.
Love,
Donatella

Man invents war. Man discovers peace.
He invents war from without.
He discovers peace from within.
War man throws. Peace man sows.
The smile of war is the flood of human blood.
The smile of peace is the love, below, above.
Excerpt from "Songs of the Soul" by Sri Chinmoy

Dear Richard, I must agree with you about women-empowerment; women are nurturers by nature; men, destroyers by nature. Although of course, in both genders there are acceptions to these facts.

How tragic, for us all....that power hence forth, has been measured in muscle, and not the heart...where the hearth of life lives...

North

"Those who show mercy to the cruel will be cruel to the merciful"

- Talmud

"Rather than trumpeting how dangerous these pariahs are, why can't we begin to talk to them? They're totally fixated on the United States , and that means what they crave is our attention."

This sounds like a couch session with an incorrageable teenager or gang member.

So are we looking at 3-4 sessions a week, for how many years?

Freud has got to love this from his vantage point.

It will only be a matter of time when we propose to include Sharia law in the US to placate the extremeist as we like to say here on IB.

It's starting to happen in Britain, creeping in , make everyone happy.

All in the name of peace, let's what was that famous quote by Patrick Henry, oh right:

"Give me liberty or give me death"

- so politically incorrect

Steve

I was struck by the use of the terms craving or needing attention, and I thougth this article addresses this progressive mindset:

"At the heart of liberalism is the naive belief that people are basically good. As a result of this belief, liberals rarely blame people for the evil they do. Instead, they blame economics, parents, capitalism, racism, and anything else that can let the individual off the hook.

A second naive liberal belief is that because people are basically good, talking with people who do evil is always better than fighting, let alone killing, them. "Negotiate with Saddam," "Negotiate with the Soviets," "War never solves anything," "Think peace," "Visualize peace" -- the liberal mind is filled with naive cliches about how to deal with evil.

Indeed, the very use of the word "evil" greatly disturbs liberals. It shakes up their child-like views of the world, that everybody is at heart a decent person who is either misunderstood or led to do unfortunate things by outside forces.

"Child-like" is operative. The further left you go, the less you like growing up. That is one reason so many professors are on the left. Never leaving school from kindergarten through adulthood enables one to avoid becoming a mature adult. It is no wonder a liberal professor has recently argued that children should have the vote. He knows in his heart that he is not really an adult, so why should he and not a chronologic child be allowed to vote?

The second major source of modern liberalism is narcissism, the unhealthy preoccupation with oneself and one's feelings. We live in the Age of Narcissism. As a result of unprecedented affluence and luxury, preoccupation with one's psychological state, and a hedonistic culture, much of the West, America included, has become almost entirely feelings-directed.

That is one reason "feelings" and "compassion" are two of the most often used liberal terms. "Character" is no longer a liberal word because it implies self-restraint. "Good and evil" are not liberal words either as they imply a moral standard beyond one's feelings. In assessing what position to take on moral or social questions, the liberal asks him or herself, "How do I feel about it?" or "How do I show the most compassion?" not "What is right?" or "What is wrong?" For the liberal, right and wrong are dismissed as unknowable, and every person chooses his or her own morality.

There are not many antidotes to this lethal combination of naivete and narcissism. Both are very comfortable states compared to growing up and confronting evil, and compared to making one's feelings subservient to a higher standard. And comfortable people don't like to be made uncomfortable.

Hence the liberal attempt to either erase the Judeo-Christian code or at least remove its influence from public life. Nothing could provide a better example of contemporary liberalism than the liberal battle to remove the Ten Commandments from all public places. Liberals want suggestions, not commandments.

-Dennis Prager

Well North I am sure you will play a role somewhere in the "feminine resurgence" thats the name of the operation.

Communication is absolutely mandatory in order to co-exist peacefully. With increasing globalization and world wide technological advances leading to more deadly weaponry in all nations, we're simply putting off the inevitable. Threat or no threat, we will have to communicate one way or the other... preferably not after a nuclear war. On a deeper level, we all want the same things... only some people / countries choose a less productive way of getting these things.

Great point on operation "feminine resurgence," but whose going to handle the mission of telling Kim Jong Il?

Thanks Deepak for an American view. For an otsider US is not all that trustworthy. Its choice of friends and enemies makes it an unreliable partner. NK and Iran are 'enemies' of US but not of many nations of the world. Israel is a very close friend of US and vice versa but it is not friendly to many especially those bordering it. I have only one question. What has Lebanon and its people done to deserve the pounding by Israel as condoned by the latter's friends? Verbal engagement by UN and others doesn't seem to work.

I would actually say the converse, that the US is a Pariah and not Iran or North Korea. We are all well aware of the US foreign policy which was so eloquently tabled in the 'Axis of Evil' speech. Let's see, Iran was once again propped up by the US and like two friends falling out-is now to recieve the brunt of its former ally's vengence. I think the US does not seem to understand how it is actually alienating itself and its culture from the rest of the world. Blair has slowly, but surely contributed to the political alienation of the UK within the European Union.

Of course we need dialogue, that is the first rule of international diplomacy-but how has the US ever used dialogue before? Was there any dialogue before the US dropped two atomic bombs on Japan? Its tit for tat in todays political world. Strike first, talk later. There is an urgent need for dialogue between so called 'super powers' and their so called 'enemies'. The point is how can you have dialogue with someone who doesn't listen, and threatens before they discuss? Iran hasn't done anything politically threatening to the US for the last 15-20 years. Why this sudden targeting of countries which want to develop nuclear power. Why isn't India included on the hit list, and why doesn't anyone remember that the only country in the history of the world that has used nuclear weapons is the US.

I pose the question: 'how does the rest of the world deal with Tony Blair, George Bush and US foreign policy? Could we intitiate dialogue?

K

Dr Chopra,

President Bush has described the trio of Iran, Iraq and North Korea as the “axis of evil” (Incidentally the world’s first nuclear test conducted by the US on July 16, 1945 was codenamed Trinity!). The US administration believes it would be “catastrophic” to let these countries have weapons of mass destruction. The US invaded Iraq on mere suspicion of its having the WMD, and what a fiasco it turned out to be! I fear Pres. Bush may end up like the shepherd boy in Aesop’s fables who cried wolf when there were none. When some wolves actually attacked his sheep and he called for help, nobody believed him and the wolves devoured his sheep!

I loved your “untouchable” analogy. How long can you keep a group of people on the fringes? How long can you exploit them? How long can you tell them that they’re not good and responsible enough to hold power? Sooner or later, they’d rise up against the powerful. And in India indeed, ever since the dalits (“the untouchables”) have come to occupy the highest echelons of the government, our country has become stronger.

India felt like an outcast too when it was asked to sign the CTBT. When China possessed the big bomb, how could India feel safe without having one, particularly after China’s unprovoked aggression and humiliation of India in 1962? I feel India might have been inclined to sign the CTBT if the Chinese had lived up to the slogan of Hindi-Chini Bhai Bhai(Indians and Chinese are brothers) in 1962.

With more than 100,000 deaths in Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1945, nobody knows the horrors of a nuclear strike better than Japan. Japan is the only country that’s ever been attacked with nuclear weapons, and Japan is one country that has the strongest allergy to nuclear weapons!

Countries like Iran and North Korea are just paranoid, suffering from a sort of inferiority complex vis-à-vis the Untied States, thanks, in part, to the demeaning rhetoric used by the US in dealing with these countries. But I doubt if they will ever have the guts to put to actual use the big bomb even if they come to have one. Former Soviet Union and the USA were assured of Mutually Assured Destruction if they used the nukes against each other. Either side, being substantial geographically, could hope to survive the first attack and retaliate, ensuring MAD for both sides. No wonder we never saw a nuclear exchange between the two sides.

However Iran and North Korea are smaller geographies. Notwithstanding the bluster and swagger of Kim Jon and Md. Ahmadinejad, we won’t ever see them actually shooting a nuclear tipped inter-continental missile targeted at Hawaii or Alaska. The MAD principle won’t work here. An American retaliation would flatten the aggressor.

NK in particular is simply craving for some international attention. Possessing a nuclear capability is their way of making their presence felt in the world. Being armed with the atom just makes you “feel” powerful. To use an atom against a bigger adversary, you have to have the mentality of a mad man, a suicide bomber.

You have outlined the solution in your last paragraph. We must set to work even if it takes a generation before something fruitful comes out of the dialogue process. China exercises an enormous influence over NK and it could certainly persuade it to see reason and emulate its more sensible neighbour--the free market successful democracy of South Korea. And in IMHO, the world must indeed read “positive and clear” signals in Iran’s recent proposal to break the deadlock on the nuclear issue. Iran’s description of the Security Council’s resolution setting 31st Aug as the deadline for Iran to halt yellowcake enrichment as “illegal” makes perfect sense to me when I see that all the permanent members of the UN Security Council are nuclear powers themselves! The Untouchability theory comes into perfect play here. It was this very hypocrisy that India found difficult to come to terms with and went nuclear in 1998.

Iran will not abandon enrichment of the yellowcake at any cost. And the world can afford Iran pull out of the NPT only at its own peril.

Sanjeev

Kamini says: "I would actually say the converse, that the US is a Pariah and not Iran or North Korea."

Well....Kamini...I have little challenge for you. Why don't you just truck your little ass over to one of those countries, become a resident, and then attempt to write something like you just wrote on this blog...only write it about that country. The least thing that would happen to you would be jail, the worst...death. And you have the gall to call this country a pariah.

You goddamn little 'touchy-feely' weenies, think you can wish NK and Iran good?? Are you nuts? Hell we all want peace, but you guys are so blinded by your own anti Americanism, that you think peace can only come at the expense of our way of life. Well get over it. Thankfully, roughly 51 percent of this country gets it.

Y'all have a great day. Thank god, or whomever, we don't have a 'touchy feely' in office. All our women would be wearing burkas in 15 years.

norm

What i have understood from above comments is that it really boils down to two things:

U.S. and his protege Israel and
China and his protege North Korea

Same old contradiction between right and wrong,or good versus evil.

It just from which perspective you look how you can fill in the word that belongs to it.

Why can´t we all acknowledge that by discussing things in the above matter we will never find a solution.

I suggest we all turn back to the eightfold path of Buddha and then see if there is a solution to it all. And if not then there is really only one thing left: let it be.

Hello Deepak and Everyone,

Every Administration has is own way of dealing with situations just as individual people do. President Clinton, liked to talk, and if you have listened to him, lately, he still can run a pretty mean paragraph into a short novella if given the chance, and, mind you, he doesn't always make sense, in case you haven't noticed, his Oprah interview was a little bit weird. President Bush, on the other hand is not the most articulate Yale graduate (scratching my head? he went to Yale? did he have to speak to any of his professors and did anyone ever listen to him?)

President Clinton talked to North Korea, did he not? and even had some kind of agreement, food for not developing nuclear weapons and didn't North Korea take the food and continue to develop it's nuclear program? So, I guess I would call him crazy like a fox. Iran, at least the Government, not the people, just, pretty much, hates the US, and, well, everyone knows how much they would love to have a relationship with the Jews, if given the chance, if only the Jews would just walk off the earth into the sea, the MidEAst would be such a happier place to visit.

Sure, we can talk, and we can take all the time need, but I am just going to keep my defense system up and running, probably on overtime.

By the way, the Leader of Hezbollah is saying today that if he new the Israel respone would be so sever and cause so much devastation that he would not have attacked. I just wished there was a reported there who could have followed up with asking him..

Why then after about one, three, five days of sever bombing did you not stop the fighting and return the soldiers to Israel? Why did you continue to fight, continue to invite more bombings, more devastation on innocent people and their homes and schools until a forced cease-fire was called by the UN? I would have to say this man is also sorry like a fox!

peace ruth

Andre Agassi's heart for tennis and the US Open was untouchable last night. LOVE won the match. Even madmen have a heart and mind.

Hello Deepak and Everyone,

I also read on the BBC that the chief spokesman for Hamas wrote an article to fellow Gazans about the fact they could not blame all their problems on the Israeli occupation. Now, this would be a wonderful awakening for the Gazans if it were in fact a sincere self-reflection, but, then, again, I have to wonder? Hezbollah Leader saying he is sorry for the attack because of all the damage inflicted on Lebanon, at the same time, self-reflection on the part of Hamas for activities in the Gaza, gee..well, whatever, we have here, sincerity or clever manipulating I would have to say to both, put you money where your mouth is, dudes...Recognize the State of Israel, start negotiating a peace agreement, disarm those missiles you have pointed on the borders at Israel, and then we will start believing your words of contrition.

I also read that the President of Iran wants to debate, President Bush, now, that is just plain cruel on the part of Amadinejad, and you want us to talk to him, Deepak? after hitting us so below the belt.

I must say I would love to debate him!

peace ruth

Well understanding "alchemy" and the power of words. Using the term "axis of evil", creates a reality for us. One wonders if "some" simply need to have a threat or enemy to justify their existence and fabrications. So they create one with words. Just as easily as One can create friends with words.

THE ONLY ENEMY ON THE PLANET IS FEAR and the feminine (love nurturing compassion) can conquer it. For fear and love cannot occupy the same space (mind) at the same moment.

It doesn't matter whose mind it "FEAR" is in. If it is in ours we must process it. If it is in theirs we must alleviate it.

One thing needs to be communicated to Kim Jong Il, taking into account his one weakness and his one desire. Women and to be loved.

He needs someone to talk to him and explain that if his people and the women fear him, because of the atmosphere he created, no one will love him. This is because the two cannot co-exist.

If he really wants the true love of a woman, which I know he does, he must eliminate the fear in the minds of his people. Then he will find true love, and the women he so seeks.

It is actually that simple. Now who would I have communicate this?

A well known female actress would write him a letter with a signed photo and the message. How can any women love you when they fear you?
How can any women love you when they fear you?
How can any women love you when they fear you?

-------------------------------------
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

For any nation that eliminates fear within it's borders I AM holding above all others. To this nation I AM bringing power, abundance, and prosperity.

Who will be the first world leader to bring the awareness that FEAR is our shared enemy?

This leader I AM raising up to lead the world, no obstacle shall be let to stand in their way.

Dear Norm,

Now, I can take your comment as patronising, sexist or down right rude. I will choose all three. Firstly, I was referring to US FOREIGN POLICY, not the American people. Secondly, I was trying to point out that dialogue has to be a two way street. You can never reach any common gound without both sides putting their views forward, across the table.

I was trying to say that if the US continues with its 'War on Terror' philosophy they way it has been so far-we may be looking at another WMD situation which will be used as justification of another pre-emptive agressive strategy by the US. Iran is prepared to 'talk' now, so lets hope the US is prepared to listen.

On another note, I didn't think this blog was specifically from an American perspective-I thought it was a global blog. Are we only supposed to put forward American views per se?

K

Kamini...go with rude..it wasn't meant to be patronizing or sexist...and I was pissed. Other than that...I stand by it.

norm

Dang you Norm for being an American with an American viewport, next time can you fake Iranian please, or at least French!

Steve (another American)

O.k. Normski. Pissed, as in pissed off or drunk? :-) You go girlfriend stick by your word and I'll stand by mine.

Steve, everyone hates the French-lol
Skept-thingy is that directed at me?

Best all, me off to bed so that I can be fresh in the morning for my 'touchy feely' in the office tomorrow.

Kx

Dear Kamini,

"I love the French, I love their fries"

Martin Mull

"Those who show mercy to the cruel will be cruel to the merciful"

- Talmud

So True. Thanks, Steve, for sharing this.

I would also agree with Kamini's views on the American Foreign Policy. It is a very well thought of policy of eventual self-destruction. LOL.

Dear Norm,

I never knew that IB was an *American* blog, either. This is news to me. LOL.

Cheers!
Navin

The next thing I'll hear is that the Internet is owned by America! LOL.

Cheers!
Navin

What you talking about, Internet is owned by America. The interNIC, the top DNS servers, these are all American controlled. But by the time, the self-destruction starts, hopefully, China will control everything, so it wouldn't really matter much anyway.

LOL. That was exactly my point, noname. I wanted to have a discussion on who owns the Internet? And I would like to know if the US of A has the power to shut down the Internet if it chooses to?

Cheers!
Navin

Dear Richard, your #8--hmm, not sure what my role would be as such? Trumpet-player of the issues, perhaps?(gentle smile.)

North

Well you know the French are the only ones with a word for Deja Vue, there is the french kiss, and of course they call an orgasm "the little death".

Sure North I bet you could play a trumpet of that sort just fine. : )

And Kamini you are so sweet "for my 'touchy feely' in the office" sounds like a great office environment to me, I bet everyone is productive any "openings"? Just need to keep my imagination from running wild. :)

Dear Richard, I already DO, re: social/topical issues regarding disabled/poverty/malpracticing doctors---and it sure upsets people...not sure why? Guess, most people just don't want to hear the truth about ins and outs of pain and suffering, that people around the globe, endure?

After all, sadness is only the opposite balance of happiness! Why fear it, as it's also a "part" of us and our "infinite play."(gentle smile.)

North

Yes North I figured as much and there is a great resistance to truth because it often neccesitates change.

Absolutely Richard...change seems to spark fear in people.

To be honest, the issues/topics I disclose on, which effected my life; I never gave an effort to help about it..until it happened to me personally.

I suppose we can only surmmize, most people are the same....

North

Absolutely Richard...change seems to spark fear in people.

To be honest, the issues/topics I disclose on, which effected my life; I never gave an effort to help about it..until it happened to me personally.

I suppose we can only surmmize, most people are the same....so I should not be so suprised! lol

North

Hello Deepak and Everyone,

Dedicated to Norm:

It is time for a let's love America segment!

You know what I love about living in America is the fact that 51% of the population loves the GOP and President Bush and 49% just can't stand the GOP and President Bush and we all have lived peacefully with this for six and 1/2 very long years (except for the internet stuff where war is going on between the left and the right, lib and rite wingers, the- I love Jesus crowd and the- I just like Jesus crowd).. (the internet can be oh so cruel.)

I love the fact that in American we do not have to have a picture of our President on every street corner, reminding us of either the fact that he runs the place and make sure you do not forget it or the fact that he is so vain that he simply cannot get enough of his own image.

I love the fact that I can really say what I want about the President and (his mother) if I wanted, ( would never say anything about his mother, really,) but I could and no one would come to my home and kill me.

I love the fact that even though the World thinks of us as a "superpower" we Americans know the truth, "super" might be too strong a word, but hey, we can do it, if we need to, so don't get any funny ideas!

I am an American for better or worse, for richer or poorer, till enlightment dawns on us all.

peace ruth

Hello All,

Correction"

I am an American for richer for poorer, in sickness and health, till enlightenment dawns on us all.

peace ruth

Ruth,

Be careful now, you are starting to sound all "touchy feely" Norm may take offence.

Kind Regards,
Stan

Why won't anyone believe this open-minded give peace a chance kind of man? When I think of Iran and it's energy needs, the first thing I think of is "go nuclear"-

"President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said no one can prevent Iran from pursuing what he called a peaceful nuclear program — not even U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan, who was expected in Iran on Saturday."

Be kind Kofi,

Steve

Ruth, loved your #39!! I feel the same way about Canada.. warts and all!

North

I forget which President said it but "Walk softly and carry a big stick" is good, and timely advise for America in today’s world. It should be remembered that America use to be looked up to around the world back in the 40's and 50's. What happened to give us the new name abroad of "Ugly American"?
Well for one thing, it was our loud mouth stomping around the world trying to solve everyone else’s problems. Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, Kosovo to name a few. Our tourists shouting in the department stores of foreign countries saying, “why the hell don't you have my size?" America's ego got way out of control, and it still is! The fact that 80% of Americans don't even have a passport, shows their ignorance if not disregard of the rest of the world.
Our leaders cannot have direct dialogue with our enemies except with war, or the threat of war, and they wonder why everyone now wants to develop nuclear weapons. Duh!
Back in the heartland, the spin-doctors keep the religious conservatives whipped into a feeding frenzy with a 200 proof mixture, of fear of evil, and patriotic bedtime stories. As for free speech, God help you in the heartland if you are of Arab descent, or do not have a bumper sticker on your car saying, “support the troops”.

Hello Deepak and Everyone,

Thanks, North, I love Canada too. Come to think of it everyone loves Canada, they are so much more civilized than those hooligans to the south of them, us.

Stan, just a reminder, it was called the I love America segment. Really.

peace ruth

Dear Ruth....can I quote you on that?(smiles.)

North

Dear North,
I love Canada also. I hope that soon there will be a ban on the killing of baby seals. I think such practices should become obsolete.
I am for peace everywhere.
Love,
Donatella

Sunday, August 27, 2006
Cheney Spends Vacation Clubbing Baby Seals

Miramichi, New Brunswick - Vice President Cheney, while vacationing in the picturesque Canadian community of Miramichi, decided he could use some relaxing recreation so he joined a group of local hunters on a outing to harvest the pelts of baby seals.

Using a club bearing the vice presidential seal, Cheney took to the task with relish and, in the course of the afternoon, personally clubbed to death 14 baby seals. In one particularly impressive display of clubbing skill, the vice president, with a single swing of his club, dispatched a mother harp seal that was attempting to protect her young pup. Then, with another swing of his club, he knocked the pup unconscious whereupon its pelt was removed.

Obviously pleased with his performance, a blood-stained Cheney joined the other hunters in the time-honored tradition of eating the liver of their prey as a sign of their prowess. Said Cheney, "Eating raw liver from a freshly clubbed baby seal whose heart is still beating is one of the greatest joys in the world. It just doesn't get any better than this."

The vice president is planning to turn this into an annual event and next year will take his wife and daughters along so they can make it a family affair.

Dear Donatella, I understand the compassion for our Canadian seals...but it is the livelihood of many Eskimo community's; whom are the "only ones" whom live where the seals "are." IF they cannot hunt seals, they cannot eat, clothe, nor feed their families with the multi-use a seal, provides...food, clothing, work, financial stability. They have been doing this, for thousands of years.

One hundred years ago, it was the norm. Now, it is better to save the seals, and starve people, dismanteling Eskimo villages....

There is no middle ground, when it comes to the food chain; and I do believe they take care, not to drain the population.

I worry more, about wild animals killed for thrill, like our precious eagles and hawks...our beautiful owls...

Being a northerner, where hunting and fishing in every fam was the norm.... we did not kill, what we could not eat, or use for fuel(fat) or clothes.. it was an unspoken law, among hunters here.

North

Well, Cheney is from the USA... and they are a blood-thirsty lot(re: war-histology, and has many endangered species under their belt, some already extinct).... with millions of acceptions of people of course.

But, to defend the Eskimo's; the pelts are used for clothes, and the meat feeds families; the fats are condenced into oil for lamps.

Raw liver from a seal, is considered a delicacy; much like raw fish, is to those whom enjoy sushi.

North

I doubt we understand how brilliantly Ahmedinejad's war strategy has been!

All along Bush administration has talked about 'Stopping the terrorists in their land before they can enter the US'...

... well, I dont think Bush is going to be very successful at that...

.. but Ahmedinejad has been BRILLIANTLY successful is stopping the Americans in Iraq and keeping them busy and bleeding there... so they have to think 10 times before entering Iran (which he knew was the next target after Iraq)!

If I was an Iranian Prez.. I couldnt have bettered this achievement!

Plus he is using his oil wealth to great effect by keeping close alliances with Russia and China.

You know, smart as the US Govt thinks it is - there is always a time when you have to admit that the other dude aint a lame duck! Underestimation is the greatest folly in politics.

Also, the ability to make OTHERS fight YOUR wars is the greatest war strategy ever! China (through North Korea with the US and through Pak with India)... and Iran through the Jehadis in Iraq have been masterly exponents of this strategy!

Bush, unfortunately, seems to have forgotten this basic fundamental. That UN/Security Council and other alliances were the culmination of EXACTLY this strategy was something that this gun totting-rodeo-master could hardly comprehend. He was to cook his own beef! Well there you are!!

Cheers,
Desh
Drishtikone.com

Dear Ambasteve,
I like the French too-I was being sarcastic. I also love their food, yummy...:-)lol.

Dear Skeptisch, I know. I was pretty knackered last night when I was reading the posts and responding. I misunderstood. :-)

Dear Richard-wanna job with us? Unfortunately not much 'touchy feely' in our office, more like cracking whips and alot of looking but no touching! If you know what I mean........:-). But by all means send me your cv.

K

"Or do you think he knew all along how stupid these lying idiots really are?"

Well a guy who has a Dick (cheney) as his thinking tool.. you can fairly predict where he is going aint it?!

See, I think if you blunder as often as US has ..... in as predictable manner as US has around the world.(name one country that US has touched and not made an enemy in the last 50 years??)... your opposition becomes smarter!

Saddam was smarter than Qaddafi. Osama was smarter than Saddam. Musharraf is smarter than Osama. Ahmedinejad is smarter than Musharraf.

Eventually the learning curve takes charge! Politics and War are not linear lines on the graph.. but curves... often they can move up exponentially!! THATS when the real drama starts! :-)

Cheers,
Desh
Drishtikone.com

Stan, that would be the great Republican turn of the 20th. century president Teddy Roosevelt.

Now to balance out all of this evenings Bush and Anti-American bashing (which I'm now convinced is psycho-therapy for many of you) here is a nice article from my friend Dennis Prager on:

Just a reminder about who and why we are fighting
enjoy and sweet dreams all-

"Last year at UCLA, I debated a professor who argued that Israel and the Palestinians were moral equivalents. He is not alone (especially on college campuses) in his lack of understanding of the immoral nature of the Islamic enemies of America and Israel.

Thus it is important to remind people once again about the moral world inhabited by the people we are fighting, whom President George W. Bush calls the Islamic Fascists.

-- The Islamic Republic of Sudan, in its attempt to force Arab/Muslim rule on the largely non-Arab and non-Muslim population of southern Sudan, has led to the killing of well above 1 million Christians and animists and black (i.e., non-Arab) Muslims, in addition to the widespread enslavement, rape and torture of those people.

-- No major international Arab or Muslim organization has condemned the Sudanese government's mass murders that border on genocide.

-- The leader of the Islamic Republic of Iran has repeatedly denied the Holocaust and repeatedly called for the annihilation of Israel. As the 6 million Jews of Israel do not plan a mass exodus from their ancient and modern homeland, such annihilation would in fact mean another Holocaust.

-- The holy center of Islam, the Muslim country where the holiest Muslim sites are situated, is Saudi Arabia. That country bans the practice of any religion other than Islam, amputates hands of thieves, does not allow women to drive a car, mandates what women wear outside of their homes and is the only country in the world to feature a weapon on its national flag. Women were treated considerably better and had more civil rights in ancient Rome, not to mention ancient Israel, than women living in the holiest cities of Islam today.

-- Virtually every Islam-based country decrees the death penalty for any Muslim who converts to another religion.

In other words, every country that calls itself "Islamic" is morally inferior to just about every country in North America, South America, Western Europe, Eastern Europe, almost every Asian country and many African countries.

No Muslim country treats non-Muslims and their religions anywhere nearly as decently as any Western non-Muslim country (including Israel) treats Muslims. That is why tens of millions of Muslims immigrate to non-Muslim societies and virtually no non-Muslim immigrates to any Muslim society. In every Muslim country, non-Muslims are either systematically persecuted at worst or treated as inferiors at best.

Individual examples (in just the last five months):

-- "A German court sentenced a Turkish man to more than nine years in jail yesterday for the 'honour killing' of his sister. . . . The murder of Hatun Surucu, 23, who was shot several times at a bus stop in a Berlin suburb last year, shocked Germany. . . . Forced to marry a cousin in Turkey as a young girl, Ms. Surucu later broke with her Turkish-Kurdish family in Berlin and was living independently with her 5-year-old son, to the intense disapproval of her relatives. . . . Public outrage at the murder was exacerbated when some teenage boys at a school with many pupils from immigrant families . . . reportedly openly applauded the killing, condemning the victim for having lived 'like a German.'" (The Guardian, UK, April 14, 2006)

-- "Men using machetes attacked worshipers in three Coptic [Christian] churches in the port city of Alexandria [Egypt] on Friday morning, killing an 80-year-old man and wounding at least six other people, the police there said." (International Herald Tribune, April 15, 2006)

-- "An Egyptian state-controlled newspaper praised Monday's suicide attack in Tel Aviv, which killed nine people and wounded dozens, calling it an act of sacrifice and martyrdom." (Jerusalem Post, April 18, 2006)

-- In Britain, Abdula Ahmed Ali, 25, and his wife Cossor, 23, were arrested in connection with the plot to blow up airplanes flying across the Atlantic. According to Scotland Yard, the Muslim couple planned to take their 6-month-old baby on the suicide mission, using their baby's bottle to hide a liquid bomb. (Daily Telegraph, UK, Aug. 14, 2006)

-- "We've got Hezbollah fighters running around in our positions, taking our positions here and then using us for shields and then engaging the [Israelis]." -- words of a Canadian UN observer written days before he was killed by Israeli bombs (Ottawa Citizen, July 27, 2006)

-- "Canadian authorities rounded up a group of 17 Muslim men and boys suspected of plotting to bomb major buildings in the Toronto area . . . " (CNN, June 5, 2006)

-- In Australia, "[Islamist] propaganda has convinced many residents their suburbs are being overrun by Islamic extremists. . . .The Saturday Daily Telegraph revealed an escalation of anti-Semitic behaviour. . . . Jewish university students were targeted and forced to hide their traditional skullcaps beneath baseball caps to avoid abuse, while attacks on synagogues have increased." (Daily Telegraph, Australia, Aug. 26, 2006)

-- "A third suspect detained in a failed attempt to blow up two German trains is a Syrian national . . . German and Lebanese authorities are each holding one of two young Lebanese men accused of carrying the suitcase bombs onto trains in Cologne station on July 31. . . . Officials say they could have caused many casualties and set the trains on fire." (Newsday, Aug. 26, 2006)

Does all this suggest that we are fighting a billion Muslims? Of course not.

Does all this suggest that all or even most Muslims are bad people? Of course not.

It does suggest, however, that the dominant forces within Islam are bad at this time; that Muslims who see this evil in their midst have not mobilized any counterforce either out of fear for their lives or for some other reason; and that decent men and women around the world -- Hindu, Christian, Jewish, atheist, Buddhist and Muslim -- are threatened by this powerful, death-loving force.

Muslims who do not acknowledge the threat to civilization from within the Muslim world at least have two excuses -- fear for their lives or group solidarity. What excuses do non-Muslims have who deny this threat

Let's get our "Ugly American" understanding straight:

Ugly American is a term used to refer to perceptions of arrogant, demeaning, unthoughtful behaviors of Americans abroad. The term originated as the title of a 1958 book by authors William Lederer and Eugene Burdick, reprinted in 1999, The Ugly American.

In the context of this novel, the title alludes to both positive and negative attributes of its characters. The authors state that one of the "good" characters is "ugly" looking to create a contrast with the "handsome" characters who were "bad". In the book, the authors' "good" characters used their skills and resources to make a positive change in the lives of villagers in Southeast Asia and the "bad" characters used their skills and resources for other purposes. For example there is an "ugly" engineer who helps villagers with an irrigation system, and a "handsome" Ambassador who does not care about what happens to the people on the village level. The novel weaves many seperate stories with these kinds of counterpoints of an "ugly american".

The best-selling, loosely fictional account included descriptions of blundering, corrupt, and incompetent behaviors of Americans in Southeast Asia that were involved with American foreign aid. The book led to a move by President Dwight Eisenhower to study and reform American aid programs in the region.

In the book, a fictional Burmese journalist wrote, "For some reason, the people I meet in my country are not the same as the ones I knew in the United States. A mysterious change seems to come over Americans when they go to a foreign land. They isolate themselves socially. They live pretentiously. They're loud and ostentatious. Perhaps they're frightened and defensive, or maybe they're not properly trained and make mistakes out of ignorance."

The phrase became the title of a film in 1963, directed by George Englund and starring Marlon Brando. Englund was nominated for a Golden Globe award as director of the film.

Over the years, the book has had less influence on American Literature than it has had on perceptions

forgot to mention, this came from Wiki

Steve

How top deal with NK and Iran? - I like the idea of suckering them into the global marketplace.

Once they have a niche (or a "stake" as it was called) in the global marketplace, they'll think twice before giving it all up just to get bombed back into the Stone Age.

There was, as I remember, back when India was last contemplating attacking Pakistan, some business concerns that played out well for returning to negotiations, specifically, certain mega-corporations warning that if India became unstable, they might not find it lucractive to continue to invest in operations in India.

Imagine if Kim Jong-Il had billions of dollars tied up in producing the world's underwear? Think he'd trade it in to chew on some concrete?

Just a thought...

Then the biggest problem we'd have with them is sweatshops and pollution control.

Kind of like Vietnam...it took 50,000 dead Americans to make us realize it wasn't working out militarily, and guess what ...the Commies took over, just as we feared they would.

One generation later, we've suckered them back into business. Nike and few other mega- corporations accomplished what 10 years of playing "whack-a-mole" with guerillas could not.
Now they're knocking on the door and they want a bigger piece of the global pie.

Granted, it ain't exactly enlightenment. It's still an appeal to greed, no doubt.

But I think Kim Jong Il is greedy enough to fall for it.

As for Iran, once their people start making some real money, they won't let the mullahs ruin it all with a war. Those people will hit the streets a million at a time and just physically walk over the government if they have to. They've done it before. Their whole problem right now is that they feel they are being cut out of a rightful chance to succeed. Hell, they're ripe for a deal.

We need to get rid of John Bolton and replace him with someone like P T Barnum. Get the idealogues out of there and get some good old fashioned opportunists in there. They can speak to Kim in his own language - the language of greed, backroom deals, and machiavellian politics. He'll be in Kim-Chee Heaven.

Hello Deepak and Everyone,

Ambasteve, just thought this was important enough to repeat from you comment above"

"Muslims who do not acknowledge the threat to civilization from within the Muslim world at least have two excuses -- fear for their lives or group solidarity. What excuses do non-Muslims have who deny this threat" peace ruth

Hello Deepak and Everyone,

I think it is easy to look to the US and find fault, lots of them, especially with this Administrations policy of pre-emptive strikes. It is true this Administration has got a lot wrong with it, but it does not have it ALL wrong. When it comes to the "war on terror" we will be fighting it both diplomatically and with military force, but the words "war on terror" is rethoric just like the words "if God willing" it seems politicians need their rethoric. So, there will be people who will concentrate on the "roots of terrorism" to make changes and their will be people who will keep their eyes and ears on the full blown and blossomed terrorists that are ready and waiting to complete their "holy missions." The World, as it is today, is not ready to lay down their or our weapons, we are not smart enough, mature enough, secure enough, honest enough to live without the missiles, bombs, and whatever that we believe will protect and defend our lands.

Donald Rumsfeld said he was "stumped" by the cleverness of Islamic terrorists and how they were able to use the media to their advantage, and it is true, but what Mr Rumsfeld forgets is that the terrorists are using our own techniques (the US and the West's) against us. They are really not so clever at all it is just that we have "forgotten" our sins and they have come back to haunt us, but this is no excuse to give the Islamic terrorist a pass on what their goals and visions of conquest are, that is, unless you relish living under Islamic law, some day.

peace ruth

Yogi,

You'd think by now that Kim would learn how to be greedy like China, their good buddy. What does it take for this guy to figure this out? Same with Iran. Kuwait and Brunei are both very rich oil nations and give it's people loads of cash and free this and that, and you don't see these countries starting a Jihad.

Perhaps it might have to do with the fact that these leaders have something else in mind, after all they are part of the "Axis of Evil".

Evil is as evil does

Btw Desh, I've seen better posts from you.

I wonder if the former Soviet Union, China , or India has made any enemies in the last 50 years?

Steve

Dear North,
Thank you for the your educational post about the Eskimo community.
I absolutely agree that if the seals are necessary for this community's survival, then people should continue their ancient practices.

From reading the article I posted, I was under the impression that the killing of the baby seals was a sport, such as fox hunting. If that were the case, then I think it should be banned.
Love,
Donatella

Dear Donatella, though I lament seals are a part of Eskimo life, I do NOT condone how they are killed, the way Cheney did this... blood-thirst to me, is already a rampant emotional burst on the global community; I cannot enforce sport-kills of any animal...so in this, we are in complete agreement. : )

What gives me a little giggle though; is how I am up north, in my province; and to many down south of us...believe we are eskimo's...and I get asked a lot, if I still use dog-sleds, and hunt polar bear.... oh dear...

I just tell them, I am a hunter of peace... no blood, need touch my lips, to ensure my power of existance.

Love, North

Hi Ambasteve, Ruth and everyone,

Let me recite yet again the comment in last paragraph of # 55 and recounted by Ruth in her # 59:
“Muslims who do not acknowledge the threat to civilization from within the Muslim world at least have two excuses -- fear for their lives or group solidarity. What excuses do non-Muslims have who deny this threat.”

Now let me share some thoughts with you:
I live in the North Indian state of Punjab. Sikhs in Punjab constitute about 60% of the total population of the state, though nationally they constitute no more than 2% of the Indian population. The Sikhs had a grudge against the Hindus and the Indian government. The Golden Temple at Amritsar, which is to the Sikhs what Mecca is to the Muslims, was ransacked by the Indian Army to flush out the militants holed up there in 1984. Indira Gandhi, the then Indian Prime Minister who ordered the storming of the holiest Sikh shrine, was gunned down by her own Sikh bodyguards five months later. In “retaliation” Hindu bigots butchered some 3000 Sikhs in the following two days in the capital city of New Delhi.

The next few years were the darkest period in the history of Punjab. Punjab, economically the most prosperous state of India, became the most troubled part of India in just two years’ time. There was hardly a day when we did not see newspapers carrying stories of innocent Hindus being pulled out of buses and shot dead at pointblank range by terrorists, who were all Sikhs. It went on and on with no end in sight. The government tried all it could—it dismissed the state government, imposed President’s rule, appointed retired Army chiefs as the state governors, held “negotiations” with the terrorists’ representatives, and what not. Nothing doing. The situation seemed utterly hopeless. With no end in sight, the bloodshed continued unabated.

Then in the early-90s, something happened. The mainstream Sikhs began to get sick and tired and felt ashamed and aghast at the gory killings committed by their co-religionists. I could see expressions of embarrassment and shame on the faces of Sikhs who visited their Hindu friends’ houses to bereave the deaths of their family members slain by Sikh terrorists. The odium and disgrace their great religion was earning for itself all over the world because of the lunatic and savage fringe began to disturb the ordinary Sikhs. Sikhs began to realize that the clergy that had seized their religious places was deliberately distorting the great teachings of their gurus. By stoking in them false fears of their faith being imperiled by using venomous rhetoric, these petty men sought to buy the silent acquiescence of the Sikhs to the killings of the innocents.

The Sikh peasantry in villages refused to shelter the terrorists notwithstanding the latter’s pleas that they were “fighting” on their behalf. The Sikhs all over the place disassociated themselves from the depredations of the fanatics, and even confronted them to protect the minority Hindus. Before long, terrorism in Punjab lost its ideological moorings. By the mid-90s, there were only a handful of men indulging in sporadic killings. It was simply a law and order problem now. And the police had no problem in reining them in. It’s been 11 years now—there has not been a single terrorist killing in Punjab.

What we did in Punjab needs to be replicated wherever terrorism rears its ugly head. We need to stand up to our great religions being hijacked by fanatics to further their own vicious agendas. What we need is a People’s War on Terrorism. As long as some of us keep identifying ourselves with the gun-toting hooligans, we can not defeat terrorism. Governments can not fight terrorism. Governments can deal with a law and order problem or fight a full-scale war where the enemy is clearly defined. Terrorism is neither of these. Terrorism is an invisible enemy. Your innocuous-looking next-door neighbour may well be a sleeper-cell for a deadly terrorist organization.

It is said that the world is a dangerous place to live in not because of the evil deeds of a few, but because of the silence of the many. I hope good sense prevails sooner than later.

Sanjeev

The world would be a lot less confusing, and less prone to problems, if we just get rid of all the pointless labels, they are an abonimation to spirit.

Thank you all in advance.

Best wishes

Your Self.

Oops!.....friends' houses to GRIEVE (not bereave!) the deaths of their family......

Sanjeev

Hello Everyone,

Klumsyklutz you write.."What we did in Punjab needs to be replicated wherever terrorism rears its ugly head. We need to stand up to our great religions being hijacked by fanatics to further their own vicious agendas. What we need is a People’s War on Terrorism."

The words you write are so true and needed. Thankyou for you very interesting history on terrorism in Punjab.

peace ruth

Because most newspapers didn't report this, I'm including a link to the full text of Ahmadinejad's Letter to German Chancellor

http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=8506060558

Steve

Steve: still talking out of your 1st Chakra as usual.

I saw somewhere in an interview, someone said Bush is playing Poker and Ahmadinejad is playing Chess.
It seemed like a good comparison.

Just for fun try this video out:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7373128225578708570

North,
about North Korea (from your first post)...
I watched a documentary on North Korea on TV couple of months back, and it showed how many people living there escape across the border to South Korea and China. One woman who escaped, told reporters how shocked she was to find that there is less poverty in other countries of the world. People there are made to believe that North Korea is heaven on earth, the richest and with the highest living standards. When in reality, people are suffering, the homeless dying out in the open due to starvation, bodies rotting on the streets and people go on with their daily lives as if its nothing to be surprized about(they showed the footage with hidden cameras).

So there are many who want to escape, some cross borders to just earn money for a few years, and go back home and some permanently leave.

My South Korean friend told me how the new generation SKoreans in general feel very sorry for NKoreans, and try to help them out when they migrate across the border.

I read somewhere that George Bush is playing poker while Ahmadinejad is playing chess.

I liked that.

Kamini, thanks for confirming my post with yours : ) The information I put out, was from an article I read in Time. It showed pics of the inside of NK, and how they oppress their people, and force them to soldier. I read this many years ago.. maybe 6-7 years? Even back then, they were predicting NK would retaliate one day....

NK really is, in a sad state, the building rotting, over-wiring; hanging loosely everywhere!!

People dressed in rags, looking like walking-dead people.... no life in their eyes...with a deep hunger; not just of belly, but of heart/spirit/mind.

It saddens me greatly Kamini; to see us people...tear each other apart.

What frightens me about the NK's are their ability of leadership, to keep thier people in the darkness of hate/deprivation/fear/poverty and destitution.

I find, most countries today; are doing the same to their people; but, without perhaps such dire need to wall us in, and suppress our growth as a nation? OUR countries do the same to us, in smaller subtle ways that become socially acceptable.

NK's believe the end of the world is near.. and they plan on "surviving."

North

Sorry, I posted my response to Kamini, when it was intended to Nimita, in response..sorry Nimita(blush.)

North

Steve,

Your friend Prager does a fair job of demonizing the Muslims, however, as usual he finds a way to go over the top when he makes the following statement: “every country that calls itself "Islamic" is morally inferior to just about every country in North America, South America, Western Europe, Eastern Europe, almost every Asian country and many African countries.” His definition of morality seems to center around the allegation that most Islamic countries decree the death penalty for those citizens who convert to any another religion, and the fact that they place many restrictions on women. This is a sweeping value judgment that he apparently has not spent much time reflecting on. Morality has a lot more dimensions that he should have considered. The western and Asian countries while they may have a lot more freedoms also have a lot more decadence, crime, and other forms of moral bankruptcy. He neglects to show the extremist sides of the other Religions. Has he forgotten how many wars were fought under the Christian banners of bigotry? While Christians do not condemn you to death in this life, for not being one of them, they most certainly condemn you to death in the next life. The fact of the matter is that all the religions are so much alike it is frightening. The Jews, the Christians and the Muslims all have many of the same histories. They just interpret them differently.

There was a documentary on a National Geographic recently, detailing the Muslims Pilgrimage to Mecca, known to Muslims as the Hajj. This journey must be preformed at least once in a Muslim’s life if they can afford it. This documentary was very informative and interesting from several dimensions. First, was the fact that they have some of the same stories from the Old Testament as the Christians and the Jews with a few minor changes. Example Abraham was supposed to kill his first-born son Ishmael instead of his favorite son Isaac. It is from this story that they practice the ritual stoning of the Devil. They also believe the Archangel Michael was there, striking the stones with the tip of his wing, causing water to flow out for the thirsty pilgrims to drink. At the end of the Pilgrimage, the Pilgrims return to Mina, and each one must buy a sheep or seven of them can get together and buy a camel, these animals are sacrificed, and the meat is taken and distributed to hungry people around the world.

The Muslims do all this to get closer to God, to be better people. Yes, it is a member’s only club, so what? Most religions have their exclusive places. These people are not evil! It is idiotic to say that the dominant forces within Islam are bad at this time. There are radical forces within every religion; it is the nature of the beast.

Lastly to clear up the “Ugly American” reference it had almost nothing to do with the 1958 book. Having lived abroad for 25 years I have discovered this attitude in many countries towards America, and Americans, and much of it is based on the previous foreign policies of Bush senior and the current foreign policies of Bush junior.

Kind Regards,
Stan

Prager, Prager, Prager!

Ok. Time to set this dude right yet once again. As has been writ, all nations are under the subjugation of Satan, so naturally the most powerful nation in the world, the Great Satan, that is, the United States, is of course the most evil nation in the world. As Stan noted, the moral bankruptcy that is manifest throughout ‘our’ American culture is vividly exemplified every time you dial P for porn, watch your MTV music videos that celebrate ‘bitches,’ cars, and ‘mo money, or listen to your favorite country music song that, literally, glorifies alcohol (Brad Paisley right now has a hit single entitled ‘alcohol’), so spare me about America’s murderous ‘moral’ authority. Christ led by example, he did not condemn as he went on with his profligate ways . . .

Anybody ever read that bit about Moore’s ‘Naturalistic fallacy,’ tis kind of interesting. Anyway, the point is, who is who is make the judgment about what is good and what is ‘evil.’ Certainly a nation that was still hanging African ‘Americans’ by the hundreds (in addition to hundreds of covert and overt wars) yearly within the last century has no such ‘moral’ authority. Sell this nation’s concern for human rights to the inner-city Katrina victims, or the millions of people locked up in your prisons for non-violent non-property crimes.

Christ states to come unto him as a child! It is THOSE conservative ‘sophisticates’ whom twist the Gospel to their own ends that most truly do grave injustice by the Word of God, citing everything obscure from the Torah like ‘cursing Israelites’ to justify Zionism and labeling all OTHERS as anti-Semites, when in truth St. Paul could easily, by the plain language of his words, be labeled a self-hater, to justifying wars of aggression b/c THEY believe God gave them carte blanche rights to kill whoever is in THEIR way.

In other words, keep is simple stupid [Mr. Prager]! Love God, love one another, and give up the money; this is the holy trinity of humankind’s salvation. If we physically do these three things, preaching the Gospel and proselytizing all others would be unnecessary, b/c we would be physically emulating Christ, we would in physical fashion be Christ-like. In no other way can the love of Christ be promoted, and I wage my eternal soul on the fact that no American gun or war-plane furthers the love of Christ more than a person acting Christ-like.

Christ did not kill his enemies, he was killed by them!

Finally. The ‘Christian’ conservatives sure love to say how so under attack are there ‘Christian’ values b/c in a nation where the church and state is supposed to be separate, THEIR precious ten commandments cannot even be built upon their courthouses, and ‘public’ buildings and offices. Let me see here, separation of church and state, and yet we have Christocentric monuments and verbiage all within and throughout THEIR courthouses and law-books . . .

Give me a break . . .

Practice the love and Christ, and act like Christ, and quite beating me over the head with all of your rules and laws!

Speaking of which, I just fled a city of fundamentalists breathing fire and brimstone: a bunch of scary people yelling orders and seething intolerance . . .

But I still love them, for they know not what they are doing . . .

Setting stones in front of their brother to fall over . . .

Peace all

and God bless

Hi Stan,

I guess it just so happens that for the last so many years, 99.9% of the terrorists attacks in the world just happen to be Muslims.

And we shouldn't judge Islam, because of what happened to Europe and Asia in the middle ages.

And we shouldn't judge Sharia law for outlawing conversion to another religion (under penalty of death) because their is moral decadence in the west.

All I can say is, I need to plan my next trip to Vegas! Which btw is what many Muslims do from the middle east.

Regards,

Steve

Heeeessss back!

Where are you now brother Craig?

I knew I can lure you out with some Pragerism :)

Hope you are well my friend, can you share a little about what is going on with you.

Steve

Yep.

I have been missing OUR intentblog. Today is the first chance I have had in weeks to get online, and of course this is the first, well only actually, place I have thus far visited brother Steve.

Been quite an eventful few weeks, let me catch up with world events, and I will blog you in a bit bro.

I have dearly missed everybody here though Steve, this place is literally a part of my life!

peace

Craig,

Welcome back brother. Your fire power was sorely missed

Steve,

Your definition of “terrorist attacks” needs to be expanded if you think 99% of them, in the last so many years were just committed by Muslims. The Americans and the Israelis also have a long list of terrorist’s attacks to their discredit. As do many other countries and religions. The emerging fact that Israel used 90% of their cluster bombs against Lebanon in the last 72 hours of the war, when they knew a ceasefire was imminent is a good example of their terrorism!
Ck out: http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/world/20060830-1307-mideast-un-clusterbombs.html

I never said you should not judge Sharia law. I did say that in determining the moral values of a country decadence is worse.
I know you can find a better way to make the Muslims evil, than by telling us they are planning trips to Vegas.

Kind Regards,
Stan

Stan,

So to be clear , you are saying in moral terms that western decadence is considered worse than Sharia law in which I will include some modern day examples not from the middle ages :

1.Islam commands offensive and aggressive and unjust jihad.

2.Islam orders apostates to be killed.

3. Islam orders death for Muslim and possible death for non-Muslim critics of Muhammad and the Quran and even sharia itself.

4. Adultery- death by stoning

5. Islam orders unmarried who have sex to be whipped

6. Islam commands that gays must be executed.

7. Islam commands that highway robbers should be crucified or mutilated.

8. Islam commands that a male and female thief must have a hand cut off.

9. Islam allows an injured plaintiff to exact legal revenge—physical eye for physical eye

10. Islam commands that drinkers and gamblers should be whipped.

Again I'm not saying you are uncritical of Sharia law, but since the above are still practised today, not from the distant past,
I'm just surprised at your statement.

I know you believe that terrorist equivalences, so that's just an impass, however, I find your comments about western versus Islamic moral standards to be puzzling.

Thanks,

Steve

Steve,

Sharia law, sounds like maybe it came from Judaic law.. Stoning, for adultry,.. Mary Madgdaline… oh sorry that’s too long ago.

You like to quote Wikipedia ck out the following:

There is tremendous variance in the interpretation and implementation of Islamic law in Muslim societies today. Liberal movements within Islam have questioned the relevance and applicability of sharia from a variety of perspectives. Several of the countries with the largest Muslim populations, including Indonesia, Bangladesh and Pakistan, have largely secular constitutions and laws, with only a few Islamic provisions in family law. Turkey has a constitution that is strongly secular. India is the only country in the world, which has separate Muslim civil laws, framed by Muslim Personal Law board, and wholly based on Sharia. However, the criminal laws are uniform.

Many consider the punishments prescribed by Sharia as being barbaric and cruel; Islamic scholars argue that, if implemented properly, the punishments serve as a deterrent to crime.

Regards,
Stan

OK it's clear now Stan, thanks

Steve

In Chechen’s Humiliation, Questions on Rule of Law

By C. J. CHIVERS
Published: August 30, 2006
ARGUN, Russia, Aug. 26 — The humiliation of Malika Soltayeva, a pregnant Chechen woman suspected of adultery, was ferocious and swift.

The New York Times

Ms. Soltayeva, 23, had been away from home for a month and was reported missing by her family. When she returned, her husband accused her of infidelity and banished her from their apartment. The local authorities found her at her aunt’s residence. They said they had a few questions.

What followed was no investigation. In a law enforcement compound in this town in east-central Chechnya, the men who served as Argun’s police sheared away her hair and her eyebrows and painted her scalp green, the color associated with Islam. A thumb-thick cross was smeared on her brow.

Ms. Soltayeva, a Muslim, had slept with a Christian Russian serviceman, they said. Her scarlet letter would be an emerald cross. She was forced to confess, ordered to strip, and beaten with wooden rods and hoses on her buttocks, arms, legs, hands, stomach and back.

“Turn and be condemned by Allah,” one of her tormentors said, demanding that she position herself so he could strike her more squarely.

The torture of Ms. Soltayeva, recorded on a video obtained by The New York Times, and other recent brutish acts and instances of religious policing, raise questions about Chechnya’s direction.

Since 2004, the war in Chechnya has tilted sharply in the Kremlin’s favor, as open combat with separatists has declined in intensity and frequency. Moscow now administers the republic and fights the remaining insurgency largely through paramilitary forces led by Ramzan A. Kadyrov, the powerful young Chechen premier......

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/30/world/europe/30chechnya.html?_r=3&th&emc=th&oref=slogin&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

Jees I can't believe you guys are still at it.

Hey Craig good to see your still with us.

Steve

How's the big suck (Los Angeles) doing?

Somehow knowing what you can and can't do appears better then knowing you can't do somthing, like murder your wife, and still do it and then have enough money to get away with it on international television. Oh and that happened not to long ago

Gotta love America eh?

Hey LPB,

How's life in the Alps my friend?

We miss you, so don't be such a stranger.

Murder aint good anywhere, free will is a b$#@% sometimes.

Loving LA, who does that song go?

See ya around LPB

Steve

Aye Stan,

The good fight (non-violent even) ever continues . . .

LPB brother! Such a long time no see, glad you are still here too!

peace all

Steve

Tupac. To Live and Die in LA.?

I been reading the blog over the months like a fly on the wall. Finally decided to jump in again.

Switzerland is great this year. Global warming? Did somebody say subtropical?

Got a girlfriend (from Russia) and a baby on the way and a great gig with plants out doors so I'm stoked. My daughter is excited about a sibling and my ex-wife, as of today, and I are better friends then we ever were. Go figure.

In many ways IB was here in my most intense loneliness and helped me through..

Hope I find the time and energy to engage as I always find intensity at IB.

Is Ron S. still popping in?

Wait no. Wasn't it Randy Newman? "I Love LA"? I think.

Yea. The good fight (non violent).

Come to think of it Steve, during my seperation and divorce process (not somthing I wanted), I isolated myself. For months you guys were the only ones I opened up to. You guys became my family.

Thanx really to everyone that participates on IB.

Hi Laurence,
You were gone for many months! I always hoped you would return and post about how you and your daughter were doing. Sounds like a new life has opened up for you.
Amazing, how that does happen. Best wishes to you, your daughter and new baby-to-be!
With love,
~ Kate

P.s.
what is it like to be a fly-on-the-wall? :)

Dear Deepak,
"Isn't that how outcasts naturally act? I know it's easy to think that we are dealing with madmen, but even the most insane dictatorship harbors a multitude of people who want to end the insanity. They just don't know how".

Fear keeps many unrewarding systems in place, and can keep 'sane' people from saying No More to us v.s. them mentality.
~ Kate

I was testing you on the "I love LA" bit and you passed :)

I have a Russian girlfriend as well, and it's been just wonderful. She is from the Uruls region.

I'm glad you are out of your isolation period, and are enjoying life, I'm very happy and I know you will pop in from time to time, feel free to challenge me on my BS.

Haven't heard from Ron S. I imagine he is looking on and when the time is right will bring his wit and wisdom to IB.

Hope Suisse doesn't melt like a its chocolate.

Cheers,

Steve

Kate

It's an exercise in restraint. How many times I wanted to chime in with my two cents of BS thinking that my wise words of wisdom would open up the gates of heaven and make believers out of all.

Ones gets much out of staying silent and listening.

Ron

As I mentioned, a (parentheses), Russian girlfriend, I found myself wondering why an international person like myself felt the impulse, and acted on it, to objectify the love in my life.

With that said, this (Russian) woman and my happiness are a correlation.

Again guys. Thanx for remembering.

Dear Laurence,
Do not underestimate the power of your words, or presence, seen or unseen.
I missed you,
Love,
~ Kate

LPB: Soooo.....many cool things happening for you!

Great to "hear your voice" again (now I have to read more of the Intentblog, and see what kind of mischief you're stirring up here!)--Dave

Steve

In post 90 I meant Steve not Ron

David

Follow the hydrogen

Kate

Thanx.

Thanks Laurence, I figured as much.

Thanks as well Taomaster, I know I'm on the right track when you try to put me down with that chakra wisecrack. Keep it up .... sort of speak.

Btw you agree with Leadbeater re: the chakras? Or is he sort of old school?

Steve