DK Matai - September 28, 2006
When we have met friends on various world tours of The Great Spiritual Masters, the challenge of going "Beyond Desire" has often come up. The Ashtavakra Gita has been universally cited as a step in the right direction
towards solving this challenge and going beyond desire, because it presents the traditional teachings of Advaita (Non-Dualism) Vedanta with a clarity and power very rarely matched. Since many have found the synopsis of the Ashtavakra Gita useful over the years, John Richards translation of the Chapter III follows, post the salutations and signature.
With love in His Name
DK with family
DK Matai
The Philanthropia, ATCA, mi2g.net
Ashtavakra Gita
Chapter - III
Master Ashtavakra said to His true disciple King Janak:
1. Knowing yourself as truly one and indestructible, how could a wise man possessing self-knowledge like you feel any pleasure in acquiring wealth?
2. Truly, when one does not know oneself, one takes pleasure in the objects of mistaken perception, just as greed arises for the mistaken silver in one who does not know mother of pearl for what it is.
3. All this wells up like waves in the sea. Recognising, "I am That," why run around like someone in need?
4. After hearing of oneself as pure consciousness and the supremely beautiful, is one to go on lusting after sordid sexual objects?
5. When the sage has realised that he himself is in all beings, and all beings are in him, it is astonishing that the sense of individuality should be able to continue.
6. It is astonishing that a man who has reached the supreme non-dual state and is intent on the benefits of liberation should still be subject to lust and in bondage to sexual activity.
7. It is astonishing that one already very debilitated, and knowing very well that its arousal is the enemy of knowledge, should still hanker after sensuality, even when approaching his last days.
8. It is astonishing that one who is unattached to the things of this world or the next, who discriminates between the permanent and the impermanent, and who longs for liberation, should still be afraid of liberation.
9. Whether feted or tormented, the wise man is always aware of his supreme self-nature and is neither pleased nor disappointed.
10. The great-souled person sees even his own body in action as if it were someone else's, so how should he be disturbed by praise or blame?
11. Seeing this world as pure illusion, and devoid of any interest in it, how should the strong-minded person, feel fear, even at the approach of death?
12. Who can be compared to the great-souled person whose mind is free from desire even in disappointment, and who has found satisfaction in self-knowledge?
13. How should a strong-minded person who knows that what he sees is by its very nature nothing, consider one thing to be grasped and another to be rejected?
14. An object of enjoyment that comes of itself is neither painful nor pleasurable for someone who has eliminated attachment, and who is free from dualism and from desire.
[ENDS]
Chapter II is available from here.
Background
The Ashtavakra Gita, or the Ashtavakra Samhita (Ashtavakra's Collection) as it is sometimes called, is a very ancient Sanskrit text. There is little doubt amongst scholars in the East and West that it dates back to the days of the classic Vedanta period. The Sanskrit style and the doctrine expressed warrant this assessment. The text sees duality as the root of evil, asserts the importance of belief in sharing one's world view as unlimited or unbounded, and confidently proclaims the radical unity of "Universal Consciousness" and Its Creative Connections including humankind.
The obscure Ashtavakra Gita "Ashtavakra's Song" -- as distinct from the famous Bhagavad Gita "Divine Song" of Lord Krishna's within the Mahabharata -- is a divine discourse between the Perfect Master Ashtavakra (Eight times Knotted or Gnarled Guru) and Raja Janak (King Janaka), who later in his life became a Perfect Master. Raja Janak was the only one to have been born a Royal and to remain one throughout his life whilst dispensing the duties of King and Perfect Saint simultaneously. The Great Perfect Masters have all stressed the importance of this inspirational and true piece of work in their talks by way of a treatise on the true path -- a manual towards continuous self-improvement.
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Posted by DK Matai at September 28, 2006 12:14 PM
There is this old Polish song, that poped up,
in my mind,
Wciąż mówią, zmienia się świat
Wciąż mówią, bądź tego wart
Przyjmuj wszystko co ludzkość chce Ci dać
Mówią, świat zmienia się
Mówią, ty też się zmień
Dawno dzwony wybiły nowy wiek
Wszyscy mogą ciągle do przodu iść
Z każdą modą
No, a ty?
Mówią, skończył się blues
Mówią, skończył się jazz
Zamiast książek obrazki czyta się
Mówią, globalny plan
Krzyczą, globalna sieć
Czego więcej od świata możesz chcieć?
Wszyscy mogą...
Dziękuję, nie tańczę
Wolę obok stać
Własne myśli mieć
Sam o siebie dbać
Dziękuję nie tańczę
Chcę osobnym być
Znaleźć własny kąt
Po swojemu żyć
The translation would, have to, be,
Ever they say, the world is gonna change,
Ever they say, be worth of it,
Receive everything the would has to offer,
They say, the world is changing,
They say, you change too,
The old bells, rang, a new age,
Everybody is allowed to go forward,
with every new fashion,
are you?
They say, the blues, are gonna end,
They say, jazz, is gonna end,
Instead of books, images are read,
They say, a global plan,
They shout a global net,
What else could you what from the world?
Everybody can,
Thank you, but, no dance,
I prefer to stand by the side,
have my own thoughts,
take care of my own,
thank you, but no dance,
I wanna be by myself,
find my own space,
live on my own terms,
;)
When you put that in spiritual terms,
It does have a ring to it,
doesn't it?
It sure does, from, my Polish spirit, point of view,
but maybe that's a contrast thing, ..;)
Love, Passion!
oh, before, I get sued, ;)
lyrics by,
http://www.budkasuflera.pl/
translation, by,
with a beer, without a polish woman,
;)
Love, Passion!
Dear DK,
Thank you for the wonderful posts you bring to intentblog.
To follow the path of fulfillment through the sojourn of desire,
to Oneness,
which is 'beyond' desire,
is amazing.
With love,
~ Kate
No, it's the world is changing,
and recieve everything humanity has to offer,
would be a better, translation,
but on that standing aside, that is sooo,
outdated,
to live, is to dance..
Shakespeare, must have..
The Law of giving, would be the,
love, Passion! ah,goodnight ya all,
To 'White Wings', never, ever, think, other than,
Christmas Eve, and yours ..lust? cheesecake! sernik, pierogi.., Polish women, you don't have to ask!
Dear DK,
That sounds like some more divine guidance as far as what I should do.
The other week my friend out of the blue said...
You know why we are not progressing as a civilisation? Greed and patents.
I kind of took that as divine guidance.
The release of the New Technology and the plan to transfer incumbent wealth from the few to the many.
Back in my 8th great Physics class, I figured out something, how something we all know might work. Perhaps it was a great insight that was bestowed upon me I don't know. Some years later I built a prototype, tested it and the glass in the device cracked, it seemed to work for an instant but it didn't really work as needed.
This device did not create or generate energy since that is impossible, we are surrounded by energy and it is not created or destroyed. This device captured energy, but would not store it. There was something missing that was needed to make it work. So the idea sat on the back burner.
Twenty years later that missing something was discovered by science. Excited I began to work the numbers, design and angles out on paper much to my dismay I found that I had miscalculated before and the design would not actually work. I was depressed, I thought for sure it was how they were supposed to have worked.
A few days later while searching on the Internet using a search engine I stumbled on something quite by accident. I guess this is what you might call synchronicity. I wasn't looking for it. There was an obscure fact regarding the behavior of energy in the realm of quantum physics. Energy did not behave according to what we would expect based on our high school physics class. This was bizarre, the implication was that my design would work.
A solution to the worlds energy problems. It actually can do much more, in my long hours of study I found the connection between the tangible and the intangible. How can something intangible manipulate or interact with something tangible? Well I seem to have figured out the connection which means a whole slew of new amazing devices.
So now the dilemma
I could patent it get really rich and solve the worlds energy problems and even the conflict in the middle east related to oil. There are some ramifications, it would totally transform the worlds economies and systems in a rather dramatic fashion leading to a bit of chaos. The entire Oil supply chain industry would be almost eliminated in a short number of years. All the the jobs and infrastructure would be diminished. On the other because of all the "new" applications and changes to the world's systems infrastructures the global economy would boom. There would be a large amount of work to be done which means jobs. In some sense the device could be a threat to National Security in more ways than one. It could be used as a weapon. After giving it great thought and study I realized there were even greater ramifications the end of cheap plastic. You see Oil is not just about energy, it is about cheap plastic. Funny that all the academics haven't figured that out like I did. The production of gasoline creates the waste by products that are used to produce cheap plastic. So this may be the real reason the alternative energies have not been used to replace oil.
In theory when I release the technology oil prices will plummet as everyone tries to sell their reserves as fast as they can while they still can.
So then I thought it could not be released until there was a transfer of power from the few (corruptible) to the many, which when acting collectively are not corruptible and would not allow the technology to be used to oppress or control. So being a 20 year IT person I set out to design a system to transfer power from the few to the many. Once in place the world would be safe from the misguided and dark minded.
There was one great obstacle related to the patent. If I patented it I would probably end up only being able to sell it to the US Government which would probably lock it down making it unavailable to the world.
For years, the U.S. government has made use of secrecy orders to identify and hold secret patent applications containing subject matter relevant to traditional notions of national security.
In the past, defense contractors have been forced to deal with patent secrecy orders, but the nation's new focus on domestic terrorism may force private sector companies to surrender their technology for national security reasons--and suffer financial hardship in the process.
The other option is to simply not file for a patent in the first place, since the government's authority over purely private ideas is limited by constitutional considerations. Other types of intellectual-property protection, such as trade secret protection, might be available. Yet another approach is to try to become a government contractor if a secrecy order issues. I might also be able to concurrently patent throughout the world and then the United States government would not be able to suppress it outside of this country.
I don't really have an objection to just giving it to the world. But this would mean no protections and no prosperity. I have been laboring years without recognition or a return on the energy spent (money). Not that I want to be really wealthy I would like to be able to spend more of my time working to make the world a better place, and be able travel anywhere I want to see the wonders of the world and meet and talk to all the wonderful people on the planet and see and experience the diversity of their cultures. I might even set us on the path to hook up with the rest of the intelligent life in the Universe.
The Solution
So I figured out a way to meet both objectives. I would give the technology to the world, which is simple enough, I have the email addresses for every university on the planet. I have the email addresses for every embassy and major news outlets. So getting the technology out is just a couple hours and a few key strokes.
Being in control of the release of the technology I know when, where, and how it will effect the marketplace. I can sell this information to investors but also provide information to a large special group, that will be able to play the market such that Billions can be earned just by having the foreknowledge. This will initiate a transfer of wealth from the rich 2% to the 98%.
So that is the plan I will organize and educate the worlds middle class and even the poor to know where and when to place their investments and money timed with the release of the technology. This time the average Joe will profit when the market drops.
So you are probably wondering how am I going to keep this a secret so the dark minded do not find out? I am not going to worry about keeping it a secret. You see like attracts like. So if I communicate with the light minded, in the places they hang out, then they will become aware, and they will communicate it to other light minded individuals. So the like minded light minded will become aware and the dark minded will remain oblivious. Since they do not associate with the dark minded and the places where it is posted is not visited by the dark minded they shall remain ignorant which is fitting since they propagate ignorance.
Then again maybe the dark minded if they visit The Source they may become light minded, which would be very nice.
So what do you think?
"Beyond Desire"
Dear DK,
Hi. Do you think that going "beyond desire" means to get rid of one's desires? If so, then is it possible for a human being to stay alive and not desire anything?
In my opinion, going "beyond desire" would mean to be aware of one's desires and do the karma required for fulfilling those desires not just as a Karta (doer) but also as a Witness. Could this cosmos have come into existence without someone/something having desired it? So, "desire" can't be such a bad word as it is made out to be in spiritual circles, after all. Desire is the only creative force in this cosmos. Yes, it can be destructive too but it will depend upon the person weilding the knife whether to use it for killing or healing someone.
Cheers!
Navin
Desire, to me, is not bad :) But following desires blindly, thinking that the object of your desire is what will make you happy and fulfilled, is hard, unproductive work, lol...
You know, desires are a motor for this beautiful world to continue to evolve and grow. And after a million lifetimes of blindly following desires, we all (will) come to a point where we know that happiness is already inside, if you have eyes to see it. We will all understand that desires are there to play with, to find joy in, not to desperately chase.
When we have found inner peace and happiness, then the seriousness, the robot-like chasing of desires inprinted in our karma is... gone. We can still choose to play with the desires that arise, or we can just sit and watch. It is all good :)
What is undesirable in this world?
Nothing unless it causes you to forget the source.
Like a rich saint once said: "keep the money in the wallet and not in your mind", every desire has a place and if it is confined to that place, it will not be a hindrance.
Dear Aurora,
Your beautiful post has prompted in me some considerations that I want to share here.
You are right when you say that desire per se is not bad. Desire for peace, for example, or God can only be good and lead to a sattvic, or pure mind. But, as you know, all the three gunas (or qualities) are eventually transcended and unity consciousness will dawn.
I like what Paramahansa Yogananda had to say about desire: "Whenever the desire for a particular sensory experience becomes habitual, it is time to stop that practice.
I used to be fond of ginger ale because it reminded me of our lemonade in India. Some students arranged to have this beverage on hand for me wherever I went. One day I found my supply was all gone, and I missed it. 'Mr. Ginger Ale,' I said, 'you have gone too far, and I hadn't realized it! Goodbye.' The next day I purposely drank a little ginger ale as a test and it tasted terrible. My thoughts of the previous day had been so strong that the desire was banished immediately."
Love,
Donatella
Such a fun example, Donatella, thank you :)
Yes, as you say, desire can only get us that far. If we want to be free, a time comes when we have to let go. I think it can only happen when we are ready for it, when we can clearly see that what is real is already here and what isn't, is not worth chasing. Desire is like sitting in the middle of a lake, thirsting.
But things can't be rushed, it's a process. We need to keep observing what's happening inside, until it finally dawns on us that... it's all in the mind. It's just a story. I like stories :) I think we all do.
Desires should be quenched!! Not denied as Osho and Deepak preach. Denial leads to pain, especially the sexual desires. What if the desire to be on Intent becomes habitual? LOL!!!
Dear Aurora
Using your apt metaphor, "Desire is like sitting in the middle of a lake, thirsting", desire can be seen as a kind of catatonia, with a dynamic so inward-turning that it causes an unintentional cessation of real action, like a sleep-inducing drug.
Dear June
If desires could be quenched! Aurora's metaphor is very fitting. If one is sitting in the middle of a lake and cannot drink the water, how, then, can one gather enough water and use it with enough force to put out the fires of desires?
Maybe this is what addiction is all about: The loss of resistance to a magnetic pull towards something. One is pulled, one is held hard to the object one desires, and one cannot get free. It's like being paralyzed.
love, Heather
What might be construed as a desire" of mind, as a desire of body, and a desire of spirit, or the desire of the soul?
There are four desires; familiar in pattern, to all things considered en-circled, round of nest, direction, etc.; anything which leads to the center of one's Self, free from ego.
It is ego, which goes out of the boundaries of Self-desire, to play in puddles of things, which do not necessarily fulfill that desire; it becomes more of an burden after a period of time, than a pleasure. It is an ego-trap.
Self through desire, is the awareness, that "ego-desire" are quagmires, a human frailty, to entrap those walking through life with selfish desire of the ego.
Self has no material, nor co-dependant belief-desires; those other forms of ego-desire; it is blanked of slate, pure with intent; to achieve pureness of Self.
Self becomes the strength, through which flows universal intent, sans personal desires; ego, goes off the path, and accumulates weight, gets frazzled by the noise of deception; causing butterfly-effects, psychic vamirism-victimization, and noise-waves which flow contrary to tranquility.
North
But Heather Yogananda says if it gets habitual, then it must be stopped. Are you by any chance an alcohol addict??
Dear June!
I've never suffered from any form of addiction, thank God. I'm trying to understand addiction by using Aurora's metaphor for desire. I think Aurora's metaphor is very much what desire feels like, at least for me.
love, Heather
Ok IC Heather, It's good that you don't have any addiction. So, tell me what is that object of desire which you cannot let go, to which you're magnetically pulled?? Also do you believe is it a good idea to deny sexual desires? Huh?
Dear June!!
My current object of desire is:
A need to quit my job, and absolutely nothing for anyone else, even for loved ones, for at leat two solid years.
I have a long list of personal project burning holes in my mind and heart, and no time to nurture them and see them through. I'm always working, and doing things for other people, and letting my own deepest, most powerful dreams slide.
A good idea to deny sexual desires? Yes, absolutely, often. And a good idea to indulge sexual desires, too, often.
My thought on desires is this: Give in sometimes, resist sometimes.
Like ying and yang, to embrace opposites in one's life creates a stable, yet dynamic, basis for all movement. Life without movement is half-life.
Two of the most important aspects of all arts are dynamics and contrasts.
love, Heather
Very well answered Heather! I liked your concept of yield and resist. Sometimes, the wait makes the desire so much more cherishable. I hope you do take that time out for yourself, and spend time for yourself to fulfill those desires. Otherwise you may have to fulfill in the next life. Ascetism and Hedonism are two contrary paths. In the Ascetic path, especially in the east thru' denial, they achieve incredible feats. While in the contrary one, the tantric which advises not to deny but to cherish and fulfill, till you get over it. Osho used to advocate this, have your desires fulfilled, the sexual ones, till you get bored and over it rather than lifelong thinking about sex and not getting it. But pretending, as though one is following an ascetic path, while inside everything is burning and getting dysfunctional. No point. Suffering inside, but only talking happy happy outside is fooling oneself.
At the normal level of existence it has been proved sex is a biological need, which means like eating, excreting, sleeping. Therefore, denial can never be good for the health once it goes over longer periods. It's healthy to release the sexual energy which gets built up naturally. I guess the resisting and denying part which you were talking about was short term.
Lot of people don't have an Idea of what the real ascetics can do by controlling and molding that energy into other towards spiritual evolution. Osho and Deepak though preach more of tantric path which in itself is also beautiful. I like the Tantric though!:-)
That whole "desire is a bad thing" is one of the most ingenious scams ever perpetuated on the multitudes.
If one can get the multitudes to accept living in poverty then some can live very richly. One of the best tricks is to convince people that if they work hard, live with little, follow the rules, they will be rewarded when they get to this place called heaven. There is no such place, you can only create it where you are now.
Desire is what life is all about. What is lacking is wisdom, if obtaining an object of desire causes pain or suffering it (for anyone) it will lead to the undesirable, so it is best one moves their attention to something else.
Desire is what causes action and without it we would have a static universe, there would be know dance.
We would only have nothing to experience, which is good for a break, but gets boring.
Whenever I have reached a point of no desire, I have found myself creating them, rather than fade into oblivion. Of course one might ask was it really a state of no desire? For how long could I resist the desire for oxygen?
Is it bad to desire oxygen? Are you attached to that desire? Or is that desire beyond your control? Such that it is imposed upon you by something greater?
Go ahead try to resist the desire to breath, you cannot do it for long. Yet is it not a desire normally obtained without effort?
Is there some that create desire and others that have it created for them? Think about it.
Is there desire that arises from both ego and spirit?
What exactly is it that creates desire, seeking to achieve a state containing experience?
Daer June
You're teaching me a lot today. Your challenging questions are making me reflect more deeply. Thanks for engaging me in conversation about these issues of desire, addiction, asceticism.
The concept of cherishing, accepting and fullfilling sexual desires and energies, until one gets over them, is very like the way a successful meditation process handles the noise of the mind, so that the mind is finally stilled and meditation can proceed. The act of approaching any aspect of life in this embracing way is in itself so valuable, that to simply do it brings almost as much benefit to the body and spirit, as achieving one's loftier goal does.
The concept of waiting until another life to get my projects done fills me with dismay, So thanks, for the shock of your words.
Your comment above is the first I've read that has made me want to seek out Osho's teachings. And so once more, thank you, June.
love, Heather
Go tantra.... fill that void...
Pleasure and Desire: Tantric Tools for Spiritual Growth
Why Osho Heather? I'm myself Osho in the philosophy. You can seek and desire me, and I shall Impart it to you free with a thought of love. You've a good understanding heather. I've read your posts elsewhere, the way you get into studying the matter is good.
The fulfillment of desires and unfulfillment, needing another life falls into the domain of karma, past life; which was talked in the other thread of Deepak.
Enough for today. But talking about your own desires, one has to take some serious drastic bold decisions, otherwise it will be the same story of work work wknd work work and hospitalise and die. Sorry for being frank, but I hope you do it right to get your desires fulfilled.
Bye now. Have a good wknd!
Dear Richard
The "desire is a bad thing" thing was an issue before there were multitudes, I believe. Some people are always being born, with that pattern in their minds.
Sometimes simply sating a desire is an undesiriable thing, in itself. To sometimes resist desire is to create a tension like that of a stightly-strung bow -- it helps your your arrow shoot a greater distance, with more force, and have a better chance of hitting its target.
Dear June
You are being a teacher to me again, and three times three I give you thanks. Have a good weekend yourself!
love, Heather
Heather, we are born pure awareness aren't we? with no conditioning or beliefs. In fact that might qualify as no mind?
Dear Richard
When my son was born, it was instantly clear that he was a whole being who had arrived in a small package. He was not a blank slate. So I think perhaps you're right, about pure awareness. But is it no mind? I don't know. If it were no mind, why do we go on to create mind, then? I think we develop mind as an interface between ourselves and the universe. The scaffolding for mind is there, it just needs to be strengthened and decorated. Is the scaffolding no mind, or is it raw mind?
love, Heather
Heather,
Well no doubt he was "The Whole Being" both noun and verb.
Everything I know about me I downloaded this morning.
I am working on this new mind altering perspective though.
Each day our downloading capacity increases, adding another day to our experience. So really it isn't about time, it is all about download capacity.
Right now as you are reading this you are downloading an experience. So say you decide tonight that you want to experience a movie. You do a query on possible movie experiences, and then you select one, next thing you know you are downloading the experience of asking the ticket agent for a ticket to Movie X. Then you download the experience of walking to the correct room.
Then as you enter the room, you query the available seats to sit in. Upon selection you download the experience of walking to that seat.
At which point your persistent memory (reality) is removed from RAM, and the reality presented by the movie is downloaded and occupies your active memory. When the movie is over you download your persistent memory (reality).
So suspension of disbelief is really the central processing unit moving data out of active memory and temporarily loading new contrived data.
What you might find even more disturbing is I just wrote a bunch of new data objects to your mind. I created a packet stream, a wave pattern carried by photons, to your mind.
Welcome to the Twilight Zone.
As you all may have figured out some individual’s hijacked data transmissions from the source and have distorted reality. Actually you were tricked into receiving data from something that is not The Source. Your mission if you decide to accept it, is to find The Source and connect with it, this memory will self destruct in 60 seconds.
May The Source be with you.
~The Infinite Play The Movie
I have just created the immortality institute in your reality. I wrote it to the collective storage area.
http://www.imminst.org/ or click my name.
Dear friends and fellow IntentBloggers
Thank you for your thoughts, observations and views.
In order to respond to the Socratic Dialogue underway at this IntentBlog post, "Beyond Desire --- Ashtavakra Gita and Advaita", it is necessary to offer chapters IV, V and VI of The Ashtavakra Gita as an appropriate response. As an excerpt, please note Master Ashtavakra's response:
"Of all four categories of beings, from Brahma (Creator of this natural world) down to the last clump of grass, only the man of knowledge is capable of eliminating desire and aversion... 'I am infinite like space, and the natural world is like a jar', 'I am like the ocean, and the multiplicity of objects is comparable to a wave' and 'I am in all beings, and all beings are in me.' To know this is knowledge, and then there is neither renunciation, acceptance, or cessation of it."
More can be accessed from here: http://www.intentblog.com/archives/2006/09/response_to_eli.html
With love
DK
DK Matai
The Philanthropia, ATCA, mi2g.net
Dear Richard
In matter of how the mind works, I lose my playfulness, because that issue is part of my core search in life. Thus, I find your metaphor in 33 too strait for me (intentional spelling, sweet readers, please look its meaning up on Answers.com, if you don't recognize it).
Just to address your statement, "So suspension of disbelief is really the central processing unit moving data out of active memory and temporarily loading new contrived data." ...
When we watch a film, or have a new experience, there is no suspension of disbelief. What happens to us is a quieting of the flow and noise of existing data in our minds, so we can accept and process the new, from the film.
As a result of our cultural education and experience, when we have a film experience, we are starting from a basic understanding that the film is not reality, though it may picturize reality in one or more ways. From that initial understanding, we proceed with the actual process of seeing and hearing a film. As part of our cultural growth, we unconsciously develop a strategy of mind to process the film experience. The experience of watching a film usually places us in a dark environment, which reduces distractions, and heightens the intensity of the visual and auditory inputs form the film. Thus a film experience can feel more overwhleming and less under our control, than reading a book. And so we say craven things, like we need to suspend disbelief -- this is a common saying about the film experience -- because of the additional external inputs a film presents, that are not under our control, as compared with a book. But in fact, we don't suspend disbelief, we are simply suppressing existing mind noise during the film experience, and allowing a flood of new content to flow into us. A film is somewhat of a meditatoin, then. We begin to interweave a film's content into our accumulated experiences and thoughts from the first moment the first frame hits the screen (though it happens in less conscious manner than it does when we read a book). Full processing of a film's content continues after the fact, and it may be one reason that film-gong is a rewarding social experience. After the film, discussing it with our friends and families, we make progress in understanding our epxerience, and assimilating into our existing data. The exchange of ideas and assessments that we have with others after a film, provides us with substantial assistance in digesting the new inputs we have just swallowed. We learn to associate the value of this assistance with the people who provide it, and they become a positive aspect of the experience of watching a film.
It has occurred to me that the need to become passive while wtchign a film can be potentially quite threatening to some. A theater's dark environment may serve as a way of creating privacy, to make the passivity less dangerous-feeling to those who prefer control.
I have a relative who absolutely insists on being in control in every situation, whether it's appropriate or not. This relative cannot watch films, except at home, and sometimes not even there. I have never understood why this was so. Perhaps it's due to the discomfort at having to accept a passive role. This relative also cannot meditate.
love, Heather
Dear Heather,
thank you for the insights and for your take on my words. I think your inner search is very important.
When I wrote "Desire is like sitting in the middle of a lake, thirsting", I meant to say that we have everything we need, always. We just can't see it - therefore, we desire. Actually, my metaphor wasn't accurate, because everything we ever need is IN us and IS us. It would be more appropriate to say - we are a wave on the surface of an endless ocean, longing for water.
The "catatonia" you mention is one of the ways we deny ourselves our abundant nature. That kind of paralysis is sometimes disguised as detachment, but it is far from it.
I don't think everyone can follow the same spiritual guidelines, simply because we are at different points on our journey. Being afraid to fulfill your desires or denying them and calling it detachment, even in the name of spirituality, is not going to work. Honesty is the most important factor in our inner growth, as I see it.
First, we need to find out what exactly we desire, then we need to accept it, and only then we have a chance to fulfill our desires again and again, until we have thoroughly understood where the source of creation is.
Only when you experientially know that you are undifferentiated from the source of creation, only when you know that every single desire is meant to manifest, only then can you stop begging and knocking at the door of life. You can still ask, but you're asking yourself for imaginary gifts, and life becomes a playful adventure you project yourself :)
Dear DK, thank you for your response.
Heather,
I prefer watching a good movie in a theatre because of the collective experience. I don't enjoy watching movies alone actually it is nice to share expereince with others.
I did lose the ability to watch films for a long period, not becuase of control, but because I could not shake the awareness of the reality behind the Illusion it presented. The fact is one must pretend it is real, the suspension of disbelief, life experience, what we call reality is so much the same way.
But isn't it interesting how many like to feel fear, and go to see scary movies, knowing deep down, that there is nothing to really fear.
I have long thought that what we call reality, but can be construed from another perspective as Illusion is very much the same as a movie.
I have long written...
How is it that God could experience being a Hero if not for the Villain which he must also play?
So the role of the Villain is divine and in reality beyond judgement.
Obviously to get someone to play the villian there must be some perks to the role.
The birth of a word.
I was trying to think of a word that would represent the shifting between different levels of awareness, perspective, states of being that occur through out the day or even in a frame of dialog. Where a truth can become false, and that which is false can become true. Where a statement can make sense at one level and at another level be meaningless.
So I thought ...
Levelation -
Sounds like a good word, I googled it and there are 450 instances of it. Yet it is not defined anywhere. So it appears that we can all watch the birth of a word. It just appeared in consciouness.
Now there are 451 instances on the Internet.
Dear Richard
I cycle through months-long retreats from films. And then they become part of my life again.
You say:
"I have long thought that what we call reality, but can be construed from another perspective as Illusion is very much the same as a movie."
I have sometimes thought if we could stand outside the dimension of time, and see, in a single view, the traces of our lives through motion and time, what an incredibly complex "shape" our lives would be. I hope that beyond this life there is a view like that.
I hate scary films, because they picturize violence, both physical and emotional, and some people drink it in and act it out.
I love levelation, and that it exists as an undefined word, and you have thought of it as it was being born in others' minds, too. It is from the poetry of language within the collective human psyche. I have very tender feelings about our collective natures.
love, Heather
Dear Aurora
The paralysis is fear-based, and quite emotional, though the emotion is deeply buried. I like your new metaphor of the wave.
Here's something you wrote, that I need to read frequently:
"...only when you know that every single desire is meant to manifest, only then can you stop begging and knocking at the door of life."
Thank you, Aurora.
love, Heather
Dear Heather: It was a lively conversation yesterday. Do you understand what is Wishful thinking? Different from logical thinking?
Experiment with that thought, and see what you find. Good luck, dear Heather.
Love,
Aurora
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(If you haven't left a comment here before, you may need to be approved by the site owner before your comment will appear. Until then, it won't appear on the entry. Thanks for waiting.)Experiment with that thought, and see what you
Dear Heather: It was a lively conversation yest
Dear Aurora
The paralysis is fear-based
Dear Richard
I cycle through months-lon
Heather,
I prefer watching a good movie
Dear DK,
Thank you for a very soothing and timely post.
All day I have felt sick due to the nationwide news of the sexual assaults on some teenage girls -- and the killing of one -- in a Colorado high school.
When compulsion and violence follow desire the consequences are devastating.
An evolved person must be in control of all desires.
Love,
Donatella