DK,
You are a product of desire.How can a result eliminate the cause.Do you see the contradiction in this?
Desire to eliminate desire is another form of desire.

Your thoughts on this?

regards,
Prabhakar

If we can simply observe our desires we will find that whenever they are directed outward they ultimately lead to pain.

I don't believe desire is bad and needs to be eliminated. But it needs to be seen for what it is. Energy seeking expression. And what is it that we want to create?

Love, Kristin

I like this quote from Shree Maa.

Shree Maa says, "DEVELOP DISCRIMINATION. Pursue only those desires which will make you free. Leave the ones which will get you into trouble. Know the difference and remind yourself daily. Remember that the God you seek resides in every atom. You can offer respect to every atom, even while you maintain your own discipline inside. That you are a spiritual seeker is not something you need to show outside. It will manifest in your behavior, without your having to try. If we are gentle, loving, kind and honest in our dealings, that is spiritual. Your spirituality cannot be hidden. Similarly, if one is full of fears and trying to hide his inner emotions, such a person is not full of spirit. That is only ego. LET ALL OUR ACTIONS MANIFEST OUR LOVE. Work is visible love, the expresion of love that we can see. People want realization, liberation, to become enlightened. Do not think it is something different from doing for others as you would have them do for you. SPIRITUALITY IS VERY SIMPLE. "I am everywhere," says the sage. "I exist in every form of creation. If I hurt any form, I hurt myself. If I raise any form to a higher level, I myself find progress." It is easy. BLESS YOU!"

Dear DK,

Before the dawning of unity consciousness, we do the best we can -- through our dharma -- concentrating on the attainment of desires such as the fulfillment of peace for all and enlightenment. The ultimate aim of human life is to realize the true nature of the self .

Then, we will be beyond desire, aversion, and acceptance as in: 2. I am like the ocean, and the multiplicity of objects is comparable to a wave. To know this is knowledge, and then there is neither renunciation, acceptance or cessation of it.

Love,
Donatella

Dear DK,

That certainly is the premium stuff.

You know I had always wondered if two knowing this state of being, could be in the same room at the same time.

It has sort of been my experience that there is a sort of downshifting that occurs in these situations.

Such that it might of been described there is the normal human state of Being, and then the God state of Being. Those that enter the God state of Being do so with a bit of meditation and attention on the divine aspect and they become it.

I think that maintaining this state of Being is an Art.

But perhaps this will give some insight.

I know two states of Being, one where I pray for problems to go away, and one where I pray that I could experience problems.

There is that state of Being where one encounters great depression, but the thought follows, one can then experience anything, and in the pursuit of that experience the depression lifts, and the game begins.

So in summary I would say creating desire is a cure for Divine Depression.

Ego is that device by which the omnipotent can escape the dilema of omnipotence.

All for not of course....

Also I have seen where the human self does not have the intent to do so, but the divine assumes a presence and takes control.

Some might say what about free will?

If there is only One Being then there is only one will, and the ego self dost know it not, which is why sometimes it appears things go right and things go wrong from the ego self's perspective, but reality is that they are always going right.

But perhaps this is not true, and all for not anyway.

"Those that enter the God state of Being do so with a bit of meditation and attention on the divine aspect and they become it."
Richard Thomas

Dear Richard,
I think that is a good observation. If it's true that the mind is like a cloth that takes the colors we want to give to it, then attention and intention create the states of the mind. An ancient sage said it best: "I good man can become a sinner by thinking he is a sinner. Vice versa, a bad person can become enlightened by thinking 'I am pure and perfect'.
Love,
Donatella

Donatella,
A bad person can never become a good person by thinking that he is pure and perfect.

A bad person can become a good person by only understanding his badness.It is like a person who is greedy who is constantly thinking that he is non-greedy which is all nonsense.He can be free of greed only when he compeletely understands his greediness in all its implications.
This is what it means to have self-knowledge.

regards

Dear Prabhakar,

You are right. That quote did sound incomplete, without adding that only through awareness of the self -- and consequently through the right thinking and behavior -- can one experience the necessary shift in consciousness.

Love,
Donatella

Hi prabhakar and Donatella,
Thanks for your comments in post 8 & 9!

For myself, I have discovered Awareness of Self - through Understanding.

I do have the ability to evaluate my actions, and my thinking, and decide how to react, change, stay the same, or deepen my experience. This is a 'feature' that human beings have, and its a feature that separates us from other forms of life.

To be a choice-maker. To learn and grow and discern intentions - of myself and others.

This is perhaps the greatest blessing bestowed upon human beings (in my opinion) because with Understanding, comes the possibility of Freedom, and present moment living.

With love,
~ Kate

"Sou kamayathe", God desires to be many. God desires to experience through each and every sentient being. Each and every one of us is perfecting for God. It is fallacical to say one should not have desire. You can not exist as a sentient being with out desire. Even God has desire. What we should do is transcend the desire. We should have the right desires. We should not be attached to the outcome of our desires, and actions. How is any life possible with out desire??

Thank you DK and God bless.

Dear Geeta,
I do desire one day, that I will come to WVA and meet you.
I do love you so
~ Kate

Ashtavakra is absolutely the coolest. There's no commentary that can add anything to his words. It's all there: truth, beauty, and no fat - just straight up, no frills.

Ashtavakra rocks!

Caro DK,
Grazie della risposta...adesso ho le idee piu' chiare.
A presto,
Donatella

I agree DK, and that is why when we say "Everything is in divine order" and people point to the war and conflict, we add,

"and so is every change that will occur tomorrow"

Disclaimer: You know, I hate it when Osho sannyasins say "Osho said this" or "Osho said that. "

But something came to me that he said that seems so relevant to this thread, thgat I will bite the bullet and be the idiot who retells an Osho anecdote. Here goes:

On the subject of meditation, he told this story:

Some tribal people on an isolated island in the Pacific one day came upon an airplane abandoned by the US Air Force. They had never seen anything like it. At first they were wary of it. Eventually, one the braver souls climbed up on it and saw that it contained open spaces where the crew and cargo would go. They noted it had wheels on it too.

So they decided it must be a cart of somekind. They filled it with food and things they needed from the jungle and then pulled it on a rope with some cows all around the island. They were very happy with the work that was accomplished by this, and thought the airplane was a great gift from God.

Then one day one of the younger men was tinkering around with the airplane and actually started it up. They realized it didn't need the cows, it could go on its own. Then they could drive stuff around the island. They were even happier with the work that it did, and celebrated it as a gift from the gods.

Finally, one day many years later, another young man from the tribe was driving it and he stumbled across the fact that the airplane could build up lots of speed and actually get off the ground. He was the first one to realize the airplane could fly.

This realization rocked the small universe that the tribe had always known. Before, their whole life was contained on their small island in the ocean. For the first time, the world opened up and they realized they could explore new realms totally outside of where they had been before.

This was very controversial in the tribe because while the young people were eager to fly and explore, some of the tribal elders were very fearful of that. They were afraid that if the people began exploring off the island, it would change the tribe in unforeseen ways and maybe even cause the eventual destruction of their way of life.

Those that had the courage, realized that everything had in fact already changed, just because they now knew that the airplane was really intended for flying. Sooner or later, the challenge would have to be met.

Osho said that the whole story is a metaphor for the meditative process.

When we first begin meditation, we notice that it clears our minds and makes our day a little easier. Many people are very happy with this early result of meditation practice and believe that is all meditation is capable of: to relieve some stress.

However, those who go a little deeper and spend more time meditating soon find that meditation can also completely clear up issues from the past, and remove filters on our awareness with the result that we can see ourselves and our life more clearly. This is tremendously helpful, and many people are very happy with this result too. They have a clarity and freshness for life they did not have before.

But there are a few that want to find out how far they can take it. What is the limit? What can really be done with meditation?

These are the souls that realize what meditation is truly about. It is a vehicle meant for soaring through inner space, for exploring the depths of the spirit. For these people, a new universe opens up that completely changes they way they approach their lives.

Meditation is like the airplane. Many people use meditation to relieve stress, or to gain clarity and insight. This is like using the airplane to do the work on the ground. The airplane can do the work on the ground, and do it very well, but that is not what the airplane was actually designed for. Likewise, meditation can relieve stress and bring insight, but this is not really what meditation is designed by the sages to do.

The airplane is really about flying, exploring new worlds, and expanding one's view of life beyond the bubble of one's own little reality.

But it takes courage to do it. It will change you, and you will not be able to go back to living your life the old way. Those who are attached to their old life will not be able to experience the real purpose of meditation. And that is OK. Perhaps they are perfectly happy to have some stress relieved in their lives, and to have a clearer vision. Bless them.

But the ones who are curious and courageous will take the risk. It will change what they believe about God and spirituality. It will change their perspective on right and wrong, it will shift their entire view of themselves and other people, and of the universe itself.

And once they have been flying and exploring inner space, they will not be able to go back to their limited, boxed-in previous existence.

This is what meditation is designed for. This is the difference between someone who talks about meditating to relieve stress or control pain (it can do those things quite well), and someone like Ashtavakra, Patanjali, or Buddha, who is talking from the viewpoint of a whole different way of being, the one that meditation is actually capable of opening the door to.

Kate, angel Kate, thanks for #12. I desire to meet you too, in the beautiful WV hills.Love and God bless.