Hello Rahul and Everyone,

I have no words.

ruth

Hello Rahul and Everyone,

I have no words.

ruth

I have a hard time believing in the spirituality of India when there still remains a cast system.

Dear Rahul, mankind is not "turning" into beasts. Mankind has always, been a "part of" beastly intentions. We are in actual fact, animals/mammals. We merely evolved into "trained" domesticated docile beings(or are we?)much like house pets; we evolved into community and global, planet-pets.

War is as old as this planet. Since the beginning of any form of life; there has been a war for that life... to continue it's existance against any form of threat--to it's existance.

We have not evolved far enough, to eradicate the "need" to dominate, to exist. We have not evolved far enough, to eradicate blood-lust.

Let us all hold onto the thread of hope; regardless of how thin it is worn down to--it is our only hope....that we begin to evolve quicker than our beastly burdens.

with loving kindness,
North

HI! Rahul,

Thanks for sharing this news. The only question that comes to the mind and heart is "How can this happen?" and "What can i do to help or change it?"

There is a book by Rohintan Mistry called " A Fine Balance" where he projects the hopelessness of the caste system through the tragic tale of 2 "dalits" who try to change their life's reality. Very shocking and very heartbreaking!

As upset as hearing this news makes me, i know that this case is not the first one and that we can expect more because some people have lost the power to feel the pain of others.

Extremly cruel and sad.....I may have to borrow Ruth's expression I have no words...

When these things happen...i wonder what kind of universe do we live in.

It is so sad,
tears flow

Dear Rahul

The Dalits' struggle as a group is more difficult than the similar one waged (and mostly won) by African Americans in the US. The power allowed to upper castes has been in place for a very long time. As a result, cruel treatment of whole groups of people based on their birth was deeply imbedded in India's societal norms, and relief is only now starting to become reality.

Thank God, now is a new time, and instances of people losing their lives or livelihoods because of cruel biases and greediness can come to light. Those trying to fight bias can have more confidence that their stories will be heard and injustices remedied.

That you can even publish such this article is very hopeful. It does not bring the dead back to life, erase the fear and pain they felt as they died, nor soften the fear and pain of those who survive. But talking about it publicly makes those who might now act in such criminal ways think twice and not act, and for future generations, helps make people realize others' humanity so they can soften their exclusionary biases until the biases disappear.

The cruelty of the incident is almost beyond belief. The fact that it can be talked about and legal actions are proceeding, is a joyful thing. Your article is a link in a chain of justice.

love, Heath

Really sad n disturbing story. I am sure many more cases like these happen and go unnoticed because no one speaks up. Another example of corruption in India. when will all this stop? I really wanna know too if there is something we can do to stop it?

Thank you Rahul, for bringing this news to our attention. I hope justice is done. My heart goes out to the poor women who have suffered such atrocity and died.

Hello Rahul.

I don't think humans are turning into beasts. On the contrary, I think this cruel violence is what has been happening for a long, long time, it has been the reality we have created for so long, and I think that we're just now beginning to grow out of it. The age-old violence has left deep wounds in us all, and it exists in us all. Some people are genuinely working on healing these wounds, first in themselves, then by helping others.

This violence is inherited and propagated by us all. We all express it, in many more or less obvious ways. We can heal it, but not by continuing to believe that violence is somehow "outside" of us, not by pointing out certain individuals to carry the burden of our collective aggressive drives. Our collective violence will never give way to a higher reality unless we understand that the place to heal it is inside oneself.

Let's stop judging and lamenting and start working on it.

Dear Aurora

Please forgive me for disagreeing with your opinion here. I usually feel harmony with your positions, but this time I don't.

We're not all born with cruel violence within us, rather the opposite. Most of us don't participate in a violent, beastly reality. Most of life is not beastly. That's why crimes stand out to us and shock us -- crimes are the exception. Violence is outside most of us, imho.

One reason violence still prevails in some corners of the world, is the vast majority of people don't like it, don't want to face it, and when faced with it don't have enough violence in themselves to fight it. And so in some places, bullies have their way for long periods of time.

The self-awareness that needs to grow is about our right and duty to act to stop violence, and to teach others not to behave in such ways. It is a certainty that there are times when defensive fighting must happen -- to stop horrors already taking place, to prevent them from worsening, to prevent patterns of violence from being established and imbedded in a segment of society.

As for judging -- when we know something is wrong, we can stop it. The hard part is knowing what's wrong. Crimes like these are so obviously crimes, there's no room for ambiguity in judgment, no risk in labeling the acts as wrong, and acting to stop them, and prevent them.

For almost all of us, such crimes are foreign to our way of being. The only way to get justice when they happen, and to prevent them in the future, is to know they have happened and can happen again, unless we act, or support those who act.

love, Heath

Hi all,

This is the ultimate expression of "us and them" belief structures. The belief that others are "different" because of their birth, religion, economic status etc. allows for this type of behavior to manifest. When human objectify others then these types of things happen. After all, if my neighbor is just a "thing", not a true being with equal status and right to life, than there can be no empathy, no compassion. I block myself from seeing myself in the eyes of another. Then I can do to them whatever my animal nature says is justified.

It was only a few decades ago that angry groups of southern whites in the U.S. were perpetrating these types of unspeakable crimes on black families in the south. And currently this still happens to gay men and women here. Maybe it's not covered up as much, but it is the same mentality.

The lesson here is to be mindful of how each of us tend to put others into catagories...in essence we "de-humanize" our brothers and sisters. This behavior is human and part of our tribal heritage, but it is now an anochronism that without transendence will be the end of our species. This is a dark reminder to continually be watchful of "us and them" thinking...even in tiny ways.

Rahul, thank you for posting this disturbing but important story.

Peace,
Scott.

Heath

"For almost all of us, such crimes are foreign to our way of being."

As much as I am moved by the story, and if this interests you, you should read Rohinton Mistry's book - "A Fine Balance" - I think it is one of the best pieces of writing I have seen on the subject of caste and poverty, reading your comment above reminded me of something, read on...

...I think of the Abu Gharib incidents. Abu Gharib may not have been of the same calibre but much worse.

People who committed the Abu Gharib crimes were all educated, prosperous, coming from "an enlightened society", Americans, people who swore to protect all by enlisting in the Army, people who were supposedly there to help.

If people with such "distinguished" backgrounds can do what went on at Abu Gharib, why should we expect anything better from people coming from a culture where your caste decides what may or may not happen to you.

I think it is more about the human condition - a feeling of power - of the privileged over the non-privileged, rich over the poor, so called higher castes over the lower castes, etc. It is also about prejudice. These two exist in every society, and even "advanced" societies like America are not free of it.

Dear Iastoasis

Thanks for the ref to the book, I will read it.

You make a very valid point, that discontinuities of power corrupt many on the high end of things to act unfairly towards those on the low end of things, and nothing restricts that dynamic to any one country, region, people, religion or society.

One of the most uncomfortable developments in the US in the past 10 years has been a severe increase in bullying in school. Children are acting out power/no power scenarios -- bullies/victims -- even in the best schools; parents and teachers are often unaware of what's going on until something terrible happens. As kids involved in the bullying side of this dynamic become adults, they will carry their attitudes and "skills" with them. The values that created this country, which had to do with fairness for everyone, at least theoretically, are being undermined by high levels of competitiveness and aggressive behaviors. Only in the past 2 years have adults realized the scope of the problem, and started programs to try to reverse the trend. If a kid beats up another kid on a school bus, and no one -- not even the bus driver -- steps in to stop what's happening, everyone is learning that violence is OK and if nothing is done to stop it that's OK and bullies getting the upper hand is OK. So if the bullying kid grows up and incites friends to beat up, rape and murder someone he or she doesn't like, the only thing different between that possible situation and what happened in Khairlanji are location and history.

(Regarding the parallel with Abu Ghraib, I think US view of the participants is they were mostly people from lower socioeconomic backgrounds who joined the armed forces because they had no other options, i.e. they could not make a decent living otherwise, and thus they never bought into a "protect others" ethos. The high-level officers, etc., who should have known, or did know, what was going on, were not doing their jobs. No one involved, no matter what rank, is considered as having come from a distinguished background in the US. The one area that the US acquits itself in this matter is: When the crimes were made public, they were investigated and are now being prosecuted. What makes this possible is the legal system in the US, and perhaps it allows the US some claim to be called an enlightened society. But in day-to-day matters, the US is as human as the rest of the world, and has no special claim to being enlightened overall.)

love, Heath

Heath,

I have to disagree with you about the increase in "bullying".

Frankly there has always been bullying, in fact in my experience there is probably less of it now than when I was kid (I have four children ranging in age from 21 years to 10, both boys and girls). The difference now is that people are making more of an issue of it and there is a greater awareness of bullying than when I was kid. When I was a kid, getting bullied now and again was just considered part of growing up and I was admonished to make a stand, physically if absolutely needed, but more importantly to simply stand. It isn't until recently that people have somehow decided that their children should never have hardship of any kind. This is actually an unattainable feat, nor is it that valuable; some of the greatest leaps in consciousness and maturity happen in response to adversity. Physical bullys IMHO are actually easier to deal with and less insidious than psychological bullys, and the world is full of those.

Peace,
Scott.

Dear Scott

I need to see if I can find some numbers on this. The quality of bullying in the US seems to have changed, becoming more overt, and more of a group activity. I will come back, maybe tomorrow, if I can find anything useful to add to this thread.

What happened in Khairlanji was super-extreme class-justified group bullying.

love, Heath

Khairlanji is most barbaric & brutal attack on the poor family , who once upon time were part of the Hindu/vaidik caste system.Even after accepting the Buddhist ideology and the path of Buddha" the light of Asia", to get rid of the inhuman cruelties, the approach of the high caste Hindus towards these progressive poor people is unchangeable, as has been preached under the guise of hindu-dharma.Moreover,Buddhism is most noble and progressive philosophy and religion of India and willingly and rationally embraced and followed by so many asian countries and the world in general.So many reformers fought to do away this deep imbedded cruelty and discimination from the psyche of the claimant of of these Sanatani Talibanis,but it seems failed.The physically erected walls between East and West Germany had been successfully demolished and erased to ground to unite the people, how can we demolish these walls of caste where Indian society has been so metaculiously & cunnigly divided by the Brahmin/Brahminism in the thousands of caste.But how we easily blamed British for their divisive policy between Hindus& Muslims and teaching in the text books.Why don't we adopt same measures to curb the ills to educate the children, who grows with this ugly and falsely imbibed values of Brhamnical-Vaidik caste system. Cant we all progressive thinking people come together and launch "Glasnost" and "Perestroika" to dismantle the entire caste structure based on deep prejudices and discrimination to have us broad minded,rational and open human society.-Deepak