I agree with every word you wrote.

(I did not know about the execution until late this morning, and I thank God because that prevented me from watching anything about it.)

What you focus on is what you create. Switch off the TV and don't log onto youtube. For myself, this is not the world I choose to live in so while I acknowledge the utter horror of the events that are transpiring I want to keep my focus on that which is loving in all this. By giving us nothing but images of barbarism the media leads us to believe that this is all there is. Acknowledge, honor and then move on to what love would do. It's a constant process.

It is difficult to explore these "newer" explorations of my feelings of late..so much has unfolded, this past month of December, 2006; that my thoughts are vastly scattered... with no warrant sent out even willingly---of retrieval.. no time, to adjust, nor make placid, the many swirling storms; relentlessly tossing my thoughts about, without regard of the wear and tear effects put upon me....

As the captain of this ship of thoughts.... I surrender these thoughts..... and put them here.

Suddam is hanged for his crimes against humanity! I hated him for his crimes, for his arrogance in proclaiming himself as good... for his crimes, his shames.... Then, I learned not to hate him; and instead.. learned pity. He was a man, to be pitied.... imagine the dungeon of conscience he lived in when alive? His death, erases them for him. A life-sentance, he would have had to atone for his sins.. in his dungeon of guilt, regret, and remorses. As the world rejoices, I feel impending doom and gloom upon the world.. not only of war-retaliation from his loyalist followers.... all leaders have those, right?

But, more.. that we as a human race....ego- self- aparted from our animal familial-instincts through reasoning, and compassion of intelligence and wisdom.. have failed yet again.. to live by our own standards, our own mandate as a species, to instill forgiveness when necessary. They could have gave him a life sentance.... but, chose instead; to martyr another monster which killed too many. But, how many other leaders, have killed too many? Why did the usa wait 24 years, to bring Suddam to this old justice? Was it because, Bin Laden.. needed a head-start of escape through the veil of invasion for democracy for Iraq? How can the world justify the slaughter/genocide of an Iraqi nation.... to uphold a justice, served much too late.. 24 years too late? Just like in Hitler's case; the world, waited ten years to do something about it....

How can we continue to preach religious beliefs; when we cannot ourselve's.. follow the rules, the guidelines of forgiveness, as the key to peace? How does justice even begin to season itself; when at the mercy of the interpretations and perceptions of killing-men.. who kill too out of anger and hate, greed, corruption and self-importances? How does the world hope for peace, when the only alternative, is to kill all the killers? Who kills the killers, of the killers? This is my point!!

SHOULD SUDDAM NOT HAVE HAD MERCY, AS GOD'S JUSTICE PROVIDED? SHOULD WE NOT BE ASKING OURSELVES WHERE OUR LOYALTY IS? HOW CAN WE PROCLAIM LOYALTY TO A GOD, WHICH OPPOSED MURDER?

tomorrow is new years eve.. the last day of 2006... before 2007 makes its entrance. what have we learned, this past year? have we learned to forgive the unforgivable? no. then, we have not learned, well enough...

North--as posted on my blog

post-note: there are too many horrific stories of Suddam's attrocities. What irks me deeply, and disgusts me terribly--is the fact, this trial was from 24 years ago!! Why, in all honesty, did the world wait so long.. IF, that is indeed, the true reason for Suddam's silence. Was he merely a lamb; whom was once the wolf; in this new era of terrorism...

Oh,,, and whatever happened to the "reason" the usa invaded Iraq in the first place.. it was not to bring justice.. it was a search for bin laden, and weapons of mass distruction.... and mass-hysteria.... "caused" by the usa.

I'm sorry for my loose thoughts..I'll gather up the rest of them, and take them with me, before I am hanged for treason.... for being "against" murder in the first degree; and the belief that forgiveness is the key to peace.

you must have read my mind ...

I just watched the news here in africa ...

not much of what is being shown in USA ...

enough though ...

the preparation for hanging ...

a very frignened Saddam ...

noticing the compassion flowing in my heart ...

somehow ...

a still moment ...

without the add on's ...

beyond the brutality that knows no words...

what makes a man so phenomenally brutal when right now he looks so infintely vulnerable ... human ... no different from any other man??? I thought in that moment

is it because in our essence we are all the same ???

oh ...

the corruption of power ...

the death of ones illusions...

sooner or later...

impossible to run away from ...

what I saw in his eyes ...

as if in that moment there was beginnings or endings ...

the dance of victim and victimiser ....

a call for a stance where we raise as victors...

with no separation of any kind ...

watching how the news refered to the event as being teh closure between Saddam and Bush family ...

what does this mean??? I reflected

how can we reduce events of this magnitude to tribal, personal revenges ...

when we all part of it ...

in every thought that we have ...

in every deed that we make...

how much have we really evolved

from the barbaric responses of medieval times ???

where men would be thrown into the circus to the deligth of the crowds ...

I reflect on recent events in my own life...

on the intense fear I have experienced ...

after taking a stand with a local government institution for 3 years ...

on corruption and serious maltpratices ...

it has reached a climax ...

where finally someone high up decided to listen and take a stand ...

thanking me for my relentless persistence...

asking me to write a report and call to the highest influence for an intenal investigation ...

to watch how the level of intimidation and harrassment has escalated in my own home ...

noticing the intensity of fear at times ...

my stomach becoming glued to my spine ...

and yet ...

it is unity of essence that I seek ...

a stance against the abuse of power ...

from lack of adequate checks and balances ..

in whatever form it migth take ...

without which abuse becomes inevitable ...

teh consideration I am continuously working on ...

within me ...

as it is so easy to fall prey of personal revenge vendettas ...

the deepest betrayal of human kind ...

oh ...

yes ... I admit ...

I felt a deep compassion for Saddam as he walked to the gallows ...

for the intense fear in his eyes ...

I wanted to comfort somehow...

away from his arrogant and vicious diaplays in the court room ...

and the sadistic killings of his past ...

as after all ...

who can claim to be innocent from such deeds in thoughts, projections and deeds ???

no matter how small ...

as in truth ...

they add to the collective and feed Saddams' shadows...

I certainly did ...

still do ...

when I go unconcious and refuse to make myself accountasble ...

realizing that my real question is :

what does the hanging of Saddam really mean inside of me ???

not from the literal view but from its symbolic possibilities ...

oh ...

my yearning for justice ...

in dignity ...

grace ...

and forgiveness ...

where I feel ...

the depth ...

of my own tears ...

I concur Gotham, for all of our technological progressions here in the West, I see that we still are but superstitious savages.

Instead of watching Hussein hanged I tried to watch 'Apocalypse Week' stuff on the history channel, that gets really old, so I tried the Military Channel, and that gets even older much quicker--so just keep the channel on the cartoon network, shake, frylock, and meatwad rule!

Eight-tenths of the world still lives under the shadow of bastardized Zoroastrianism, and Christians have become the slaves of Judaists; and that spells trouble for everybody else, oh yeah . . .

Next stop: Iran and Syria.

Peace

(Presently it's snowing outside... the rhythm is slow... the snowflakes movements bring peace.)

Today, I am asking myself...

Why are we not seeing happiness outside?
Why are we stuck, isolated, looking the black box?

What if, sufferance came from a bad vision of peace?

What if, the actions of sufferance automatically manifest themselves when we are WAITING for wisdom?

Why are we not at this moment together?

The symbol of sufferance is death... it's totally intelligent and human to celebrate... sure! But... do you fell it?

There is a lie! We are not getting the wisdom we are waiting for!

We are conscious enough now to know that sufferance will come back!

What change (or action) can we do collectively? We will not stay here behind these computers forever? I am already starting to get bored about computer age...

What keep us to manifest the beauty we possess inside? Where is the genius... this master of illusion? Me too, I am sick of it!

I do not know... the child in me just want to go outside and play. I want to see to mountains, the trees and been able to count more then 10 stars in the sky at night and feel the love in the hand that I am holding.

who will hang world's # 1 terrorist for crime against humanity?

D.

Gonna have to take the law of non-judgement on this one..

altough, emtions are, subjective, and understandable,

Anyhow,
Would rather have saw, some, precedent, read: incarceration for life, instead of medevil..and now in 2006.. how many viewers, did they get?

Anyhow,
1. Life incarceration, is, not without a reason,
by some civilized states, sometimes, considered a fate worse than death,
2. Crap, I forgot, but propably something, brilliant, about women.., if i remember, i'll post later,

Peace,

Dear Gotham,
there are two things I'd like to tell you.

First, you don't need to watch this stuff more than to keep yourself informed. If you continue to wallow in it, it is not because of the media, it is because of you. Turn off the TV and continue to focus on ways to do something about it instead.

Second, please don't fall into the "muslims are barbaric" thinking. I understand you, but it's completely false no matter how you look at it. I probably know only a fraction about the situation in the world compared to you, but what I know is enough to remind me to not look at the world through labels. Ceausescu was barbarically executed together with his wife, an old helpless backbound couple mercilessly shot by jubilant people, it was not muslims who did it. It was the same old human ignorance.

So please turn your efforts towards that ignorance and not towards one particular group. Ignorance is as universal as anything else that's human. Thank you.

ah, now I remember,

What was the number of maffia states outhere,
something about 126 right? so, now down to 125,
correct me if I'm wrong guys,

but now what?

Love, passion

I'm not prepared to pronounce any opinion on Muslim reaction to the execution of Saddham Hussein.

I'll just say that I see his execution and any conviction that justice is being done as part of a continuum. We in the U.S. just occupy a different spot on the same continuum ... but we are oh so much more civilized. We don't hang our convicted criminals ... we prepare ultra-sterilized execution chambers and devise the right combination of injections to execute them humanely... Then, when they are dead, we don't dance on the bodies. An official solemnly pronounces the person dead.

Whenever I see a picture of one of those execution chambers, I feel that we still have a long way to go before we can call ourselves enlightened or even civilized.

Now an enlightened being? That's Michael Berg, whom I have the privilege of knowing.
--liberata

Jean Francois, you ask "What change (or action) can we do collectively? We will not stay here behind these computers forever? I am already starting to get bored about computer age..."

I think you're right, all of us who are tired of this kind of world need to DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. Every one of us in our own way. Think of something, and then do it. And if you need ideas and inspiration, check out www.thealliancenetwork.org , connect with others like you and start doing something together. What on earth are we waiting for?

Getting caught up in the Illusion are we not?

Saddam was simply you, trapped in Illusion, looking from another point of view. The result and product of a different sum of life experience.

Saddam was the source of fear in many from Iraq, now he is gone, and so is he as a source of fear.

Saddam was a creation of the world.

No doubt the world has created a few thousand more Saddams in the last decade.

What could have prevented all of this?

THE NUTURTING LOVING COMPASSION of the FEMININE

Yet the feminine is suppressed in this world especially in certain cultures. Is it no wonder there is conflict and violence.

I suppose when this changes, all the ugliness caused by the imbalance of feminine and masculine energy in the world will go away.

Heya Richard,

Everything has it's (her..?) flipside..

There is nothing more that bugs me, than that,
passiveness.. The Dutch have a saying; 'stood there, and looked at..' (*and did nothing..)

anyhow,
Let's take a look at the EU, the best example, to my knowledge, what was the magic formula..?

The Hague..?

or..

Love, Passion,

Hello Gotham and Everyone,

Well, maybe, I am really twisted because none of the coverage surprised me, in fact, I know if they (news organizations) could have, they would have followed Saddam's every step, put the microphone on his lapel,to catch his last breath, it must have been, oh, so hard, to have had to restrain themselves. Sorry, Gotham, the news coverage in America, it has been a changing, but not for the better, we are, all, "entertainment news junkies," for better or worse, they get us every time.

I think you should send this piece to the NYtimes and the Washington Post, you pretty much nailed this one.

happy new year, ruth

Right-on commentary Gotham... I knew you had a side of the deep thinker in you...get some well-deserved rest, my friend!

One more relevant caveat is how the US held Saddam for so long in custody, then rushed him an Iraqi "justice" process and killed him before Saddam could have a chance to really tell the world his story.

I know...you may not care about his story or especially if he lived to rant and rave on about it...but consider Saddam's extensive history of relations with the United States, including the meetings with Donald Rumsfeld, and the US backing him for at least part of the War with Iran.

There is a lot of speculation over where the money came from for Saddam to acquire the chemical weapons he used on the Iraqis and the Kurds, and there is evidence that his acquiring those weapons was due at least in part to US backing and funding.

Also, there were many other accusations against Saddam that were never tried. There is literally a mountain of evidence that the US wants to bury about Saddam in the form of the history of his transactions with the USA (both when we supported him and acted against him), the testimony of people in his elite Guard force, more from surviving relatives and friends of his victims, and the testimony of many Baathist insiders.

With Saddam goes to the grave a very important chapter in US history, and it is a chapter that a lot of important US politicians do not want the world to ever hear.

Eventually it will be outed.

Saddam was a mass murderer of the most dangerous and psychotic nature, no doubt.

But we in the West have a judicial system that works for the trial of people like him. It worked against the Nazi's after WWII, and it worked on Milesovic. It is a system of fair representation, where all the evidence is made public, everyone can see the process by which the truth is arrived at, and if guilty, the accused is entitled to appropiate levels of punishment, determined by the magnitude of the crime.

But the United States did not use its own criminal justice system.

We opted instead to revert to a medieval kangaroo-court and rush to execution before the story could be fairly and openly told to the public.

And I believe that history, not to mention the international community, as well as many concerned citizens such as you and I, will cast a very negative eye on the United States for that.

And to tell you the truth, that saddens me because while I cared not for Saddam, I do care about whether my country is standing by its principles.

And too often in the past seven years, we have been abandoning those principles.

And at least to me, that is equally horrifying.

Dear Ruth

The US media are as much a mixed bag as the readers at IB are -- see this NYT article for a lightweight inside view of how the larger media orgs were looking at the issue of airing a video:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/30/business/media/30netw.html

love, Heath

The thing that struck me hardest before the execution was that it was scheduled so quickly. Does anyone have any thoughts?

sure I do Heather... my #4.

Perhaps all dictators will soon be hanged.You think?

Yet the scariest thing of all is how the right-wingers ceaselessly publish rubbish such as this: "So what we learn from the Qatar conference and the war in Somalia is that a tripartite alliance of Iran, the Arab world and Europe upholds the cause of jihad not merely against Israel and the US, but globally. It is clear that the Iranians are the most dangerous part of the three-headed jihadist Hydra. Like the Arab despots, the Europeans are provoked by cynicism. While the Arab dictatorships embrace jihad to safeguard their regimes, the Europeans support the jihadists in the hope that their support will deflect jihadist violence away from them."

Courtesy of the Jerusalem Post.

http://[DELINKER]www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?apage=2&cid=1164882001703&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

The far-right aspects of the U.S. & Israeli military juggernauts, which is increasingly apparent, is quite literally, going to be the death of us all . . .

And a Jewish-American elected 'left-wing' president, who truly believes that what he is doing is G-d's will, and who's religion denys Jesus Christ, shall be the Antichrist!

2013! 2013!

Peace

So much for everyone is being holy and divine inside.

What you call barbaric, I call evil, welcome to reality.

I have no problems watching Saddam's dead body, what about the videos showing Americans being beheaded, why no outrage during that time?

Steve

Yo Amba,

There was ample outrage when that video, where was that recorded anyway, Guatanemo Bay(???), depicted that American being beheaded. In fact, I actually watched it, on some web-site Michael Savage provided. Gruesome stuff.

Too bad we did not hunt down those Talabani nuts, instead of invading innocent Muslim countries, oh but Saddam was not innocnet you say, well, neither is the United States government . . .

And outside of an occasional My Lai revelation, our government just hides it's malevolent nature much better, no, actually, we glorify our 'divine' righteousness much better.

But one day a giant ol chicken gonna come home to roost, dressed in white flaming sword in hand (our Jewish Savior with a northmen [Aryan] herald); you know the story

Yeah . . .

Peace brother

"My dream is of a place and a time where America will once again be seen as the last best hope of earth."

- Lincoln

Barbarism is on the rise, I'm just surprised that people are surprised by all this. If 911 doesn't wake us up, what will it take?

The truth is not everybody on this planet are into IB, not everyone gives a you know what about the rise in wisdom consciousness. It's a very tribal brutish world, where the strong leader rules, submission is demanded, women are not to be seen or heard with virtually no rights, the law is the law, a hand is cut off for minor crimes, death to someone who attempts to convert, negotiations with the infidel means nothing while nodding in agreement on the outside, total disregard and seeking total advantage on the inside.

So go ahead condem Bush and co. meanwhile, the armies of barbarism grow stonger every day.

Hey just turn off the damn TV and do something instead of moaning and being disgusted. Do Something!

Steve

Craig,

I have the most respect for you, you take things in stride, nothing suprises you. You understand what is going on and deal with it in your way. I know you want to do something and I know your heart is in the right place. Is America blameless? Hell no, but it's a hell of lot nobler than any other country I know of.

I just can't stand childish immaturity. It's a rough world out there, have your eyes open. I don't care if one has been to the middle east, believe me Americans are not going to be taxied out to the front lines, might as well watch the action from Santa Monica.

You want to see a reaction? If and when (God forbid) the next 911 hits the US, believe me, it's going to get real ugly. I don't want that to happen.

Then again, it may be high time for some sort of Savior to save the day.

But it's all for oil right? Keep thinking that. Have mercy on all of us.

Steve

You all want the antidote to barbarism?

Right now on CNN, former President Gerald Ford is laying in state in the Capitol rotundra. You want to see how a noble nation honors it's past leaders, spend some time and watch, the contrast will shock you and perhaps it will generate positive feelings in how a civilized free nation honors it's dead.

Steve

This is one post I really resonate with. As I mentioned in the other thread, I just switched off and this was even before the execution.

I felt the same kind of disgust and nausea as when a few years ago the whole world seemed to stand still and stay glued to their sets enjoying the count down and aftermath of Timothy Mcveigh's (?) excution. What brings out this blood lust in us - waiting expectantly for someone else to die? Yet we keep spouting 'dignity in death' as a pet mantra.

Is only the media to blame? Or, are they merely showing what we secretly enjoy and publicly disclaim?

It wasn't only Western news channels, if that is any consolation to anyone else. TV here, in India, couldn't repeat itself often enough, accompanied by pompous, inane, holier than thou commentary. I now comprehend the term "collective madness" with increasing clarity.

Gotham:

I think you have hit the nail on the head!

1. Islamic world really needs to sort itself out! If they cannot respect themselves there is no reason why someone else would.

"Khuda ke bandon ko dekh-kar hi khuda se munkir huyi hai duniya;
Ki aise bande hain jis khuda ke, wo koi accha khuda to nahin hoga!!"

(Seeing His people has the sole reason for apathy of people of Him;
For if this is how his people are, he definitely cannot be a "Good" God)

2. There are only so many times that one can repeat the same stunt. Any body who has read Indian (or any colonial - specifically British ruled colonies) History would instantly recognise the installation of Saddam.. atrocities by Saddam .. and then his execution and killings of the common people.. all while feigning the "White Man's Burden" .. is all too familiar! From Mir Qasim to all the small maharajas.. we have seen this happen again and again and again!

It is disgusting that History's lessons lie unheard.. and the butchers are created under the guise of salvation.. by Halo-ed White Men and Women and poor people are sacrificed at the altar of mankind's greatness!! Sick!

Desh
Drishtikone.com

As I have genuine respect, and love, for you my brother, aye love for a brother whom I have never even meant. I may understand some things that are going on, but the way I deal with life leaves alot to be desired . . .

What is that saying? Something about, 'leaving the world a better place than one found it'; me most definitely needs to work on that one before it is indeed too late.

All about the oil? Nay! More military bases, and, what is that AIPAC ideal, 'global hegemomy,' sprinkle on some religious aspects, keep the war industry well funded, and throw in some oil for gassing up those jet fighters . . .

Yeah, there are many many forces at work.

Or, we could put a positive spin on life and just say this is God working in history . . .

Or again, we could follow Deepak's lead and say humankind is spiritually progressing, but to tell you the truth, I really don't see it (but I most definitely am probably looking in the wrong places).

In the end, it is I who needs to seriously spiritually progress! If I cannot even maintain a enduring relationship with a women who I profess to love beyond anything else in life, how in the hell am I to expect that we could have world peace . . .

hmm . . .

Peace

on this topic I received an email this morning that reads ;

"I was talking to E this morning when we saw Saddam’s execution on TV about how we are all capable to a greater or lesser degree of the crimes that Saddam did and we could consider him, like Hitler and Mother Teresa as polarised opposites of the human capability spectrum. I also said we need people like Saddam, oddly enough, to wake us up to the reality going on around us. After all, nobody put a stop to his killings so we are all responsible to some degree. It offers an evolution of consciousness to my way of thinking – what do you say baba? It was an interesting discussion."

"On the subject of forgiveness, I was listening to Lee Pulos’s CD ‘Biology of Empowerment’ this morning and one sentence leapt out at me, which was, ‘I agree with Dr Myss that forgiveness is the necessary portal to healing’ – fascinating. I am learning more and more by the day!"

yes ... we are governed by the law of polarities and it is up to us to own it inside ourselves and to make different choices ...in alignement with the change we want to see in the world - Ghandi

the deepest truth I have come to know ...

moment by moment ...

I am allways astounded with the amount of rage and negative projections we make as if we are innocent of it all ...

it does not make sense ...

as with knowledge comes responsibility ...

what I strive for ...

as I know ..

all I see is inside of me...

when are we going to honour the highest levels of truth in the words we speak ???

the change I want to see ...

in this honourable world that I seek ...

realizing how subtle the difference really is...

how dictatorship lives every time we surround ourselves with "yes people" who will only tells us that which we want to hear ...

unwilling to own the destructive ways of our nature ...

and living a world that in truth is no different to the Saddam's and teh Bush's of this world ...

it is only a matter of degree ... not of content ...

a paradigm I lived through since I was born ...

yearning for embodyment

...

of that which brings me into unity ...

What makes me most upset is that America that could be and has been so much a reason for hope, progress, and prosperity in this world stoops so low in history some times.

Gotham, I think Muslims around the world a very confused people today. Many Muslims revile the same leaders who other Muslims may love, and surprisingly for the same reason--for their leader's brutalities.

Also, I do not believe that Saddam was evil. He was violent but not evil. Many of the mad acts attributed to him are the creation of the people and countries who were out to get him and vanquish his country and its wealth.

Saddam's violence seen in the context of his culture was the righteous violence of a ruler in an inherently-violent culture. (You cannot manage an Arab country through peaceful timely elections. The Iraq of today and many other countries in the neighborhood are a classic example of how not to govern.).

I could not miss the sight of Saddam facing the gallows and the executioners with his head held high. This is a man who went down like a freedom fighter and not like a coward. Even if this man had a history of unreasonable violence, the hanging by a US-inspired process made him in his mind a martyr. Reminds me of Indian freedom fighters like Bhagat Singh who was sent to the gallows by the British. It is easy to see that the US these past few years has been behaving more like a tyranny than a righteous leader of the world and Saddam's hanging enforces that point of view.

well said #33

Gotham- Don't you read Rahul Pandita's posts? Especially the recent ones? Have you felt angry about it?

Don't you think 'there is something just so barbaric' in pressing a button to kill innocent people enmasse? have you felt angry about it?

I always get extremely disturbed when I see images of executions, war,flashed on television. I think its macabre voyeurism when a society finds it acceptable to, and thinks that the public wants to revel in diplays of public executions etc. The triumph of good over evil etc..well, is it really? Have we become so numb and blase about pain and suffering that when we see images as such as these on our screens, we sometimes cannot segregate reality from fantasy. I personally dont think its necessary for the CNNs of this world to televise war and public hangings. Whose benefit is that for really? Are we living in a world of PR now, that everything has to be spinned and sold to the public in a nice package...thank God most of us who have some sense of morality and dignity-switch off when it all becomes too much.

Hello Everyone,

Heather, thanks for the article it was exactly as I thought. hahaha

happy new year, ruth

Saddam execution on Eid!

Btw, Gotham and others, did anyone stop to ask a basic question - Why was the execution done on Eid?

Is there a message? Or is it SUCH a great coincidence that they came up - against all traditions - to execute a person in a hurry (if I may add) on a day that they SHOULDNT?

Oh, how the rub lies in the subtleties!!

Desh
Drishtikone.com

Hi Desh,

Execution, suicide bombings, snipers, murder,coiciding with an Islamic holy period, are you really surprised?

Can you explain Eid? I read how it conincides with the end of Ramadam, must be another Eid. Thanks.

Regards,

Steve

babajee

Thank you.............

peace must come from peace.

Hi Steve:

In India we call it Eid-ul-Zuha or Bakr-id (which is same as Eid-e-Qurban in Persia). The other one at the end of Ramadan is known as Eid-ul-Fitr. That is as far as I know.

I am not sure of the differences between the two. I can quote the Wikipedia on this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eid):

* One is called Eid ul-Fitr (Arabic: عيد الفطر) that marks the end of the holy month of Ramadan,
* The other is Eid ul-Adha (Arabic: عيد الأضحى) or Eid-e Qurban (Persian: عید قربان) which is celebrated to commemorate Prophet Ibrahim's willingness to sacrifice his son for God

Naj or Andaleeb - maybe you guys can help us understand the difference in a more detailed manner...

I think this is also the month for Hajj(?)

Cheers,
-d.

People may find the post called "Execution of Saddam Hussein: Forgiveness vs. Anger" listed in the above URL of interest. It is relevant to this topic and furthers our discussion.

Arvind Singh
Author of Nexus: A Neo Novel

The only reason I can think behind Saddam's sudden execution is the international law which is very stringent and it forbids that people over 70 cannot be hanged.Saddam would've turned 70 in april.

Secondly,Muharram starts from 21 january and shite observes 70 days of mourning.Maybe its all in the timing...

Desh you've explained it very well...and secondly i would like to add that the biggest rift between christianity and islam started from Abraham's sacrifice.Muslims all over the world believe that prophet Abraham took his son Ishmael for the sacrifice.Whereas Christians believe that Abraham took Issac ,sara's son for sacrifice.

Prophet Mohammad comes under progeny of ishmael whereas Prophet Jesus traces his lineage to Issac.To cut the long story short Prophet Abraham left his wife and Son Ishmael in the desert by GOD's command.Janabe HAJRA she left janabe ishmael and searched for water,during haj muslims run between the mountains of safa and marwa and copy hajra's action.In breif where ishmael rubbed his foot in thirst a water fountain emerged which still pumps billions of gallons of water.

Unfortunately thousands of men who copy Hajra's action during HAJ and pilgrimage go home and spend rest of their lives disregarding women.Committing various atrocities on them...

Saddam Hussein was like some world leaders who place ambition or an ideal before dignity of human life. The broader question is whether his trial in Iraq was fair and what it truly means for the future of Iraq.

With numerous defense lawyers gunned down, a divided Iraq along sectarian lines, and a US-backed government in power, the question of a just trial under those circumstances was always remote.

The execution was motivated by anger, the desire to hurt a man, who like other leaders was responsible for carrying his nation into war and death. The trial could have allowed Iraq to heal old wounds if it was conducted impartially and with the idea of restorative justice and not mere punishment....

[The full post is available on Nexus Blog Site by clicking "Arvind Singh" below. I didn't want to paste the same info on here]

Thanks Andaleeb!

The questions that I have from this above story are: So, is Isaac supposed to be a Prophet as Abraham, Jesus etc were?

Is the anger or animosity that exists between Muslims and Christians due to the Muslims anger towards Isaac or Abraham.. or is it just a matter of disagreement over who got a "better lineage" or whose story is "righter" than the other?

desh
drishtikone.com

Yes, Issac was also a prophet ,according to muslims through the inception of earth or human race ,God has send 124,000 prophets on earth.

I think the issue is who was chosen as a sacrifice...this is just my two cents.I don't think there is any anger towards Abraham or issac.I feel this is a common event in both the religion, if we look back Jesus,Moses and Mohammad they all are progeny of Abraham.These are my personal views and other muslims may not think like this...

Andaleeb:

Thanks for helping with this! How I wish God gets some mercy on the world.. and erases all the traces of Prophets, incarnations, Saints, Gurus from this planet.. and let us just be! At least we will not fight over unnecessarily :-)

happy new year..

cheers,
-d.

Ref.: # 45: Arvind Singh:

“The parties in Iraq have two responses available to them. The first is the approach of anger resulting in reprisal killings which has already resulted in huge loss of life. This vengeful attitude arises from fearful “fight or flight” response. That response is also responsible for creating stress in everyday life.

The alternative response is “face and forgive.” That is the only response that can allow an end to the cycle of violence, yet it requires moral courage, which is a commodity lacking whether in the Bush administration or the “Iraqi” government. Without it the violence will continue and the US will continue to occupy Iraq. The path of anger has been selected through military hubris and brute force and only with courage, vision and conviction can it be changed.”

Nice ideal but highly improbable given the volatile, hostile and explosive climate in Iraq at present.

The Bush Administration now contemplates sending about 20 to 30 thousand more troops to that beleaguered nation in the next few weeks. But will that change anything? Highly unlikely! It will simply mean 20 to 30 thousand more American targets to shoot at.

It is clear that the nut in the Oval Office did not anticipate the kind of trouble he was getting into when he hastily bullied Congress and the UN in the run-up to this Pandora’s Box.

I am certain that some of those who voted for the ill-fated war must wish they could find a way to end it without causing anymore harm. But too little too late, it would seem!

Did you know that this administration has asked Congress to approve another $99 billion to waste on the war for this new fiscal year? Notice the businessman’s tactic employed? Why not ask for $100B? $99B sounds more palatable, right?

Sources think that figure is much larger.

From USA Today: “The Bush administration is preparing its largest spending request yet for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, a proposal that could make the conflict the most expensive since World War II.

The Pentagon is considering (an astronomical) $127 billion to $160 billion in requests from the armed services for the 2007 fiscal year, which began last month, several lawmakers and congressional staff members said. That's on top of $70 billion already approved for 2007”.

When you consider the great neglect of domestic needs, it makes you wonder how they can muster the courage to vote to squander more billions in that hellhole.