Hello Dave and Everyone,

Dave, truly, Ann Coulter is really not a good example for anything, anyone with half a wit of intelligence tunes her out on sight, and as far as Glen Beck is concerned, everytime I see him on the TV screen, I ask,"who the -ell is this guy and where did he come from?" Obviously, he does have a "thing" against Muslims, but what is nice about it, is that it is so "in your face" and "up front" that you wonder when they will finally take him off the air, yes, he truly has been on too long, he is like a wind up toy and all he can say is "Why we need to be afraid of Iran," again I believe most people tune him out also.

The news item that interested me, recently, is about the Muslim Congressman that would like to use his Koran to be sworn in and it seems this a problem, which, I am sure, it will not be in the end, but the news will try to make it so.

you write,"For example, government treatment of Muslims after 9/11 arguably legitimizes private violence, such as hate crimes, against Muslims and those perceived to be Muslim.

I do not agree with your statement. I do think that the fact that we were attacked by "all" Muslim men and the fact that Muslim extremists would like to bring great harm to our Nation puts this government in a difficult position, between a rock and a hard place and there will be times when innocent people will suffer, unnecessarily due to ignorance.

Exactly, what hate crimes are you referring to in this Nation? Could you be more specific.

peace ruth

Hello Dave and everyone,

Just a thought, the Muslim American Community has every right to confront CNN about Beck's show and his obvious slant against Muslims. Why havent't they? I am curious. I, too, think he should go and wondered how he even got a show to begin with and why it is still on. I often think he is a propaganda show, paid for by certain interested parties and I wonder who the parties are because they certainly have a very focused interest in Iran.

peace ruth

Hello Dave and everyone,

Sorry, to be back but one thing more.

this statement of Beck's "I have been nervous about this interview with you, because what I feel like saying is, 'Sir, prove to me that you are not working with our enemies....' I'm not accusing you of being an enemy, but that's the way I feel, and I think a lot of Americans will feel that way."

Well, since Congressman Ellison was elected for the people, by the people, I guess most Americans did not feel that way and do not feel that way. I hope Congressman Ellison's answer put Mr. Beck in his place, and, if not, I hope others do, in the future. The statements are uncalled for and should be treated so.

peace ruth..i really am done, now, goodnite.

Don't worry Dave,

The organization CAIR just got another cash infusion of $100 million dollars to combat the likes of Ann Coulter and other censurables soon we will won't have any independent voices raising any kind of concern.

Rest easy,

Steve

Sorry couldn't help myself, next time I will self-censure, promise:

Frank Rich declares Iraq 'box office poison'
By Ann Coulter
Wednesday, December 20, 2006

Last year, Osama bin Laden's deputy, Ayman al-Zawahri, wrote to the head of al-Qaida in Iraq, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, telling him to "be ready starting now" for America to run from Iraq, reminding him how America cut and ran from Vietnam and the "aftermath of the collapse of American power in Vietnam, and how they ran and left their agents."

Alas, Zarqawi never got to implement his Iraq takeover plan because the same troops that are allegedly losing the war right now killed him in June.

Iraqi army soldiers celebrate and raise their rifles during a security control handover ceremony in Najaf, 160 kilometers (100 miles) south of Baghdad, Iraq, Wednesday, Dec. 20, 2006. The U.S.-led coalition handed over security responsibilities in Iraq's Najaf province to Iraqi forces, a key step in troubled efforts to get the fragile government to stand on its own, though U.S.-led forces will remain on standby in case the security situation deteriorates. (AP Photo/Alaa al-Marjani) But al-Qaida in America isn't ready to quit, yet!

New York Times theater critic Frank Rich made headlines on the Drudge Report last week by announcing: "We have lost in Iraq." Of course, Rich was saying we had lost in Iraq more than six months before we went into Iraq.

In August 2002, he wrote that Bush did not have the support of the American people for war in Iraq and without that he would "mimic another hubristic Texan president who took a backdoor route into pre-emptive warfare."

In April 2003, one month after we invaded, Rich said the looting of Iraqi museums by Iraqis showed "our worst instincts at the very dawn of our grandiose project to bring democratic values to the Middle East."

About six months into the war he wrote a column about Iraq titled: "Why Are We Back in Vietnam?" You can imagine how writing those words must have brought back memories of Frank Rich's own valiant service in Vietnam.

In January 2004, less than a year after the invasion, he wrote: "The greater debate has been over the degree to which the follies of Vietnam are now being re-enacted in Iraq." Historians noted that this is the first time Rich ever panned something containing the word "follies."

A month later, he was again comparing Iraq to Vietnam, saying Bush had forced the comparison "by wearing the fly boy uniform of his own disputed guard duty" when he landed on the aircraft carrier. Did Frank Rich win three purple hearts in combat, or was it four? I always forget.

In May 2004, Rich accused Bush of throwing "underprepared and underprotected" American troops in harm's way in Iraq. OK, I was kidding before. The closest Frank Rich has come to serving in the military was reviewing a revival of "The Caine Mutiny." Though he does know the words to "In the Navy" by heart.

Even after transitioning from musical reviewer to hard-bitten military analyst, Rich couldn't resist tossing in a quick dance review. He gleefully described "pictures of Marines retreating from Fallujah and of that city's citizens dancing in the streets to celebrate their victory over the American liberators."

This too, reminded Rich of Vietnam. Right now I'm trying to think of something that doesn't remind liberals of Vietnam ... hmmm ... drawing a blank.

In September 2005, Rich wrote that the war in Iraq "resembles its Southeast Asian predecessor in its unpopularity, its fictional provocation and its unknown exit strategy" -- interestingly, the exact same words he used years ago in his review of "Miss Saigon." He leeringly anticipated "a Tet offensive, Sunni-style" to tilt the election in Kerry's direction.

In October 2004, Rich said Bush had "bungled the war in Iraq and, in doing so, may be losing the war against radical Islamic terrorism as well." He didn't explain how killing tens of thousands of Islamic terrorists constituted "bungling" a war against them. Then again, what do I know about military analysis? I thought "The Goat, or Who Is Sylvia?" was atrocious.

In May of this year, he said that "the public has turned on the war in Iraq" -- the very war that he said the public opposed long before we ever went in.

And in June he said the public knows "defeat when they see it, no matter how many new plans for victory are trotted out to obscure that reality" -- though I might be confusing this statement with Rich's comments on the Times' plan to charge readers for his column.

Liberals are like people with stale breath talking into your face at a party. You try backing away from them or offering them gum, but then they just start whimpering. They've been using the exact same talking points about how we're losing in Iraq since before we invaded.

It seems they've finally succeeded in exhausting Americans and, thereby, handing a victory to al-Qaida.

The weakest members of the herd are rapidly capitulating, trying to preserve a modicum of honor by prattling about how if their plans had been implemented, Iraq would be in tip-top shape and our troops would be home for Christmas.

Well, if my plans had been implemented, the anti-war crowd would be weeping about Iraqi civilian deaths so much they wouldn't have time to pretend they gave a damn about the loss of American lives.

But the plans that were implemented have deposed a monster, put him on trial -- which resulted in his conviction and death sentence -- killed rape hobbyists Uday and Qusay, presided over three democratic elections, killed al-Zarqawi and scores of other al-Qaida leaders fighting Americans in Iraq, and kept the U.S. safe from Islamic terrorist attacks for five years now. The least I can do is not capitulate to the left's endless nagging.

and Dave, in your censuring efforts, I find it interesting that you have no comments about what just happened in Iran, where they are attempting to deny the Holocaust with potential devastating results. I'm sure though if Ann Coulter wrote some digs about Ahmadinejad in her next article, well.... what will this do to the Media-Iranian relations? YIKES.

It's ok you are off the hook, not one Contributor on IB has commented on this subject, fortunately serious journalist like Daniel Schorr have:

Iran's Holocaust-denial conference: a community of hate
The Iranian effort to mount a Holocaust denial campaign is linked with the Israeli-Palestinian crisis.
By Daniel Schorr

WASHINGTON – Call it a community of hate. Sixty-seven delegates from 30 countries gathered in Tehran last week for a Holocaust-denial conference hosted by Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

I know a little about the Holocaust, having visited the lakeside mansion in Berlin where the Wannsee Conference in 1942 drew up the master plan with Adolph Eichmann for the extinction of the Jews of Europe. In the Wannsee mansion are housed documents that make mass murder seem like a public-works project requiring so many trains and so many ovens.

And I spent some time in Auschwitz in 1959 making a documentary for CBS. I reported, "This was the greatest death factory ever devised." And I showed the gas chambers where murder was efficiently processed at an astounding rate. I showed the stagnant ponds, where if you ran your hands over the bottom, you picked up human ashes and fragments of bone.

So you will understand if I'm not entirely disinterested when I read that people such as former Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke joins French, Canadian, Swiss, Austrian, and other Holocaust skeptics. Many peddled the idea that the mass murder was simply a myth.

The two-day conference was part of Iran's anti-Israel campaign. But maybe the conference served one useful purpose in that it forced world leaders to renew their humanist credentials. European Union Commissioner Franco Frattini said, "anti-Semitism has no place in Europe." The incoming secretary-general of the United Nations, Ban Ki Moon, told Iran it was "unacceptable" to deny the Holocaust. British Prime Minister Tony Blair called the conference "shocking beyond belief." And the White House called it "an affront to the entire civilized world."

The Iranian effort to mount a Holocaust denial campaign is linked with the Israeli-Palestinian crisis. Mr. Ahmadinejad calls for the extinction of Israel in the same speeches in which he denies the Holocaust. It seems inconceivable that anyone today would go through the charade of wanting to research this historic wrong. But, we live in the age of the inconceivable.

• Daniel Schorr is a senior news analyst at National Public Radio.

Dave has valid points. Suggestive influence of race-related propaganda; certainly influence outcomes of perceived peace or violence reactions.

For instance, Flightplan.. a movie about a recent widow and six year old daughter, en-flight to the US...

enroute, the daughter is kidnapped and hidden aboard the plane. The mother freaks naturally, and papers are changed, saying the daughter wasn't on the flight-manifest... etc. She is deemd widow-broken.... get my drift?

Anyway.. the point and relevancy to Dave S's points.. of suggestive propoganda...

At one point, she pass's two asian men sitting together.. she blamed them for the kidnapping, as she seen them in a window at a hotel, across from hers the night before this flight....

So.. what the filmmaker did was... place two innocent asian men as "perspective" victimizers of children...

The audience.. would leave the theater with that perception...

POWER OF SUGGESTIVE INFLUENCE(wink!)

with loving kindness,
North

OH, I should add, that the kidnapper, was the on-flight cop... with help from one of the flight attendants...

Long story short... the power of suggestion, is a powerful tool... to use in mental terrorism tacts.

The two asian men were innocent.. suggestive action there, suggested they were evil.

BECAUSE, ppl cannot handle the truth of "one of their own" being corrupt.. they will instead kick into denial mode... and counter-project their anger onto the two innocent asian men "anyway" .... as the perceptive tool of the power of suggestion, was planted for such recoil...

Such as, any government uses; which deprives it's most vulnerable, to cushion the most healthy, wealthy, wise and strong.

with loving kindness,
North

I've jumped ship, and there is NO other, political ships in the political harbour.. to swim to, worthy of the titles.

was there ever a good political party, I mean really?

what IS a voter,,, to do?

Nothing, like the past ten years con-current events, have matched post-9/11....

I STILL say... Bush did it with a little help from his friends... him and Bin Laden(Oh yeah, the REASON for the Iraq INVASION) have BEEN buddies for generations for pity-sake!!

To use a coined phrase:

"some people can't handle the truth!" Jack Nickelson

Hi Dave,
It's nice to see you among posts after a long time,and you have raised a very valid point.

The profiling of muslims by some people like Glenn Beck and holding all muslims resposible for the violence by a few fanatics, will further viciate the environment . Even if we take the statement that muslims are fanatics and hardlines (which in my opinion is not true) , it becomes all the more vital that we desist from making such statements , as this will drive the right or should I say liberal muslims against the wall, strengthen the hands of the so-called fanatics, so it the need of the hour to protect and nurture the liberal ones among the muslims rather than asking them uncomfortable or rather humilating questions like - "Are u conspiring with enemy?"
Each and everyone has to act responsibly lest the hardliners motive will win.

Due to the general ignorance the average American citizen has of the Muslim peoples of faith around the world, and especially in the Middle East; demonizing 'the other', which is a virtual requisite for waging an unending war against 'evil Muslim extremists', is easily achieved by the American media establishment.

For example, consider how the notion of an American landscape built upon 'Judeo-Christian' values has been tirelessly promoted throughout the media industry; your typical American could probably not even cite a difference between Christianity and Judaism, let alone cite several differences between these respective religious systems of belief. But rest assured virtually all Americans could say of Islam that it was founded by some Arab dude named Mohammed, and then cite Muslim leaders calling America and Israel 'Great Satan' and 'Little Satan', and there you go . . .

Verily, if need be Americans could quickly deem Hinduism to be an evil religion that believes in an endless variety of Gods, denies altogether the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, has a caste-based economy akin to slavery, mistreats their women, etc.; o yeah, ‘our’ media could quickly enough rally Americans around the flag to fight India too. Lucky for India though they have nothing more to offer us other than cheap corporate labor; but ‘we’ can easily enough deem anybody who is not white ‘sons of Ishmael’ and American minds will know no difference.

If one has ever perused through right-wing web sites or even American armed forces web sites, you may have come across a common epithet for Muslims that is routinely coined — ragheads. This is akin to calling Native ‘Americans’ godless savages, African ‘Americans’ black as evil slaves, or Jewish ‘Americans’ Christ-killers; it demonizes the other making them readily susceptible targets for the young ignorant masses that comprise our Army and Marine recruits. And once young minds are imbued with such racism, that is reinforced daily, there is never ever a time when they can be deprogrammed. It took Hollywood and the general media, and a generation of Scofeld raised Bible-thumpers, generations to deprogram the American masses from anti-Semitic thinking, and outside a couple of extremist right-wing groups, if anyone so much as even questions American support of Israel they are tar and feathered (Mel Gibson), labeled anti-Semitic (John J. Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt), and effectively ostracized (Judith Regan); yet with today’s ADD America we must daily be reminded of our unconditional support for Israel and that Jon Stewart lights candles for 8 days instead of going to midnight mass).

So . . .

You tell me how many 17 and 18 years olds, who have basically been indoctrinated with a negative world-view of the Islamic faith, i.e., the golden lie, ‘not all Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims,’ are going to be able to distinguish between ‘Islamofascism’ and Islamic fundamentalism? I venture to anecdotally say, not very many. Indeed, most Americans probably believe lesser jihad is one of the five pillars of Islam . . .

And of course, since 9/11 Americans are incessantly fed the spiel about how those Islamic terrorists were attacking Americans, and are entirely ignorant of exactly what the targets of the attacks represented, the World Trade Center, the Pentagon, the White House, the U.N. building. If American idiots understood that the targets of the ‘terrorist’s’ attack were actually the same forces that oppress us (or in the case of the U.N. that distract us), then one day we may actually begin to deliberate upon the concept of ‘peace on earth’; but I wouldn’t hold your breath. If the ‘terrorists’ were actually attacking us, three Sunday morning football stadiums would have been much better targets, a fact of which I am sure even Osama is aware.

And if you want to rebut with the ‘terrorist’ attacks on U.S. armed forces stationed in the Middle East, well that would be kind of like Donald Trump walking in the streets of Watts (a notoriously poor black gang filled area) and saying, “well I don’t know why they rolled me . . .”) Spain bombing, political, and it worked. London, rogue elements.

Not that any of the above facts are relevant anyway. Our government shall ever increasingly make ‘ours’ a war economy, and more and more a war-like nation. Indeed, I suspect within 6 months we will probably have another Gulf of Tonkin like event (this time in the Persian Gulf though) that will necessitate ever more money for war, and possibly even the draft. You see, with a slumping economy, and your average American going hopelessly further into debt, about the only way out is to stimulate the economy with the truest form of economic stimulus known — war! I hope I am wrong, but I do notice a couple more aircraft carrier strike forces are being deployed in the Persian Gulf, right-wing think-tanks are screaming to high heaven about how dangerous Iran is, and there really is no future for poor young peckerwoods, or blacks, in this nation anymore. But they do fill body bags nicely . . .

The bottom can fall out here, or the rich man can get richer by using them for God, country, and glory . . .

The corporate giants in the media and entertainment industries are but the devices used to make us think what ‘they’ want us to think, you ever watch any of those ‘glorious’ WWII movies with Audie Murphy or John Wayne . .

I don’t think one needs a PhD from Yale to figure this one out . . .

Peace

Here's a good view of the issue:

"I Don't Think We Westerners Care About Muslims" - Robert Fisk Delivers Keynote Address at MPAC Convention
www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/12/20/1443230

And this item from the DN headlines:

GOP Rep.: “I Fear We Will Have Many More Muslims in the US”
In political news, a Republican Congressmember is under fire for saying he fears an influx of Muslim immigration in the United States. In a letter sent to constituents this month, the Congressmember, Virgil Goode of Virginia, writes: “I fear that in the next century we will have many more Muslims in the United States” if we do not adopt “strict immigration policies.” Goode also warns over the recent election of Minnesota Democrat Keith Ellison, the first Muslim member of Congress. Goode writes “…If American citizens don’t wake up and adopt the Virgil Goode position on immigration there will likely be many more Muslims elected to office and demanding the use of the Koran.”

So there you have it.

Right-wing, "The Bible makes it OK to kill anyone except a fetus" America is is plain scared out of their pants about the prospect of having people in the USA who regard the Koran as their Holy Book.

Between the War on Gays, the War on Christmas, the war on the Liberal Media, and the War on Muslims, it sure looks like the Christians are in a terrible war-mongering, fight-picking mood these days.

What ever happened to "Love they Enemies", "turn the the other cheek", and so on?

As for the war on Christmas, I heard Christmas sales were down this year, again. Seems like people don't have as much spending money in this brave new economy brought to you by GWB.

So - be a good Christian and a Patriotic American and go buy some stuff!

Next time somebody challenges your patriotism wave your credit cards in their face and say "Look, I'm a patriot! I buy stuff! I have debt!"

What could be more definitive of the American Way?

Hello Dave and Everyone,

Ann Coulter and independent voice? Hahahahah
haahaha, hahahaha..that's a good one! hahaha

peace ruth

Some amount of apprehension toward muslims is understandable after 9/11. Outright prejudice and racism is not. Drawing the line between apprehension and hate is the stuff of wiser minds. Apprehension can protect while hate can destroy.

Some amount of apprehension toward muslims is understandable after 9/11. Outright prejudice and racism is not. Drawing the line between apprehension and hate is the stuff of wiser minds.

Apprehension can protect while hate can destroy.

And I say the above as a 'not-practising' muslim.

Hello Dave and everyone

Ann Coulter writes,"Liberals are like people with stale breath talking into your face at a party. You try backing away from them or offering them gum, but then they just start whimpering. They've been using the exact same talking points about how we're losing in Iraq since before we invaded."

the thing about the above statement by Ann is that you can easily interchange the label "liberals" to read "conservatives" and then say "they have been using the exact same talking points about how we're winning the Iraq since before we invaded it."

I guess one thing the November election proved was that Americans were sick of the "Conservatives" exact same talking points about how we're winning the Iraq war," since it is so apparent that we are sinking in the mud of ineptness that was Donald Rumsfeld's military strategy.

Yes, we got rid of a dictator and we had no one to take his place, NO ONE, NOTHING. Iraq is a Nation that is experiencing the unecessary suffering brought about by our Nation's leadership, more correctly, our Nation's lack of leadership in planning a war that affected millions of people's lives and did not take into account what the hell would happen after the "freaking shock and awe event." This is the reality that Americans have had to face this past year. Iraq is not saved, in fact, we do not know if it will even survive our invasion!

peace ruth

Hello Dave and Everyone,

Ambasteve you write,"It's ok you are off the hook, not one Contributor on IB has commented on this subject(Iran's Holocaust-denial conference:,) fortunately serious journalist like Daniel Schorr have:"

I can't speak for others in why there were no comments on the subject, but, I, personally, did not think it deserved a comment, deserved any attention, whatsoever. It is quite apparent that the President of Iran is just trying to stick it to the Jewish people anyway he can. His conference says it all, his conference is himself- the man, his conference is, quite clearly, a conference of hate, a hate that needs no attention, a man that needs no attention and the sooner we realize and act on this the sooner he will be replaced. Feed him, feed his antics, he will grow and thrive, turn you attention away, turn you attention to the respect and honor you have for all the six million men, women, and children murdered and they will be remembered and not forgotten, their honor will be our blessing.

peace ruth

I understand the crankiness Yogi and Craig, from the looks of it, the northwest is under seige. Sheesh!

Merry Christmas,

Steve

"Ambasteve you write,"It's ok you are off the hook, not one Contributor on IB has commented on this subject(Iran's Holocaust-denial conference:,) fortunately serious journalist like Daniel Schorr have:"

I can't speak for others in why there were no comments on the subject, but, I, personally, did not think it deserved a comment, deserved any attention, whatsoever. It is quite apparent that the President of Iran is just trying to stick it to the Jewish people anyway he can."

Jewish people should grow out of their victim mentality. Holocaust doesn't give then the right avenge the injustice done by the Nazis on whosoever speaks against their right to have a separate homeland.

Mahatma Gandhi didn't think that Jews should have a separate homeland at the expense of others. If the Jewish community has to grow as a true spiritual community it would help if they 'Deny Holocaust' themselves and look into the future.

Wow David I'm stunned, well if that's what every thinks here at IB, that Jews have to get over it's victimhood, because afterall the President of Iran is just sticking to the Jewish people and has no teeth, well who am I to argue?

Well my friend , time will tell, like many here, if we just ignore the problem and be more spiritual and wake up from our illusions, all will be well.

I have so much to learn.

Steve

For you David:

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.

Pastor Martin Niemöller

Dear Ambasteve,

So according to you, we are winning the war in Iraq right? In Ann Coulter's words, we have killed "tens of thousands of islamic terrorists", almost hanged a tyrant etc. Everything should be hunky dory. All that harangue about Frank Rich and Vietnam is pointless, because what Frank Rich wrote was true and continues to be true. Public memory is short and needs to be refreshed often, otherwise they tend to forget. Why else do we need to remind ourselves so many different ways that holocaust did take place and the jews were slaughtered in the second world war?

The conservatives sound like stuck records too. At least Frank Rich is right, and he has always been about this issue. Iraq is worse than Vietnam because now we have the specter of a larger Shia-Sunni war looming with no viable solution in sight. US, UK and Australia have tied their hands in a quagmire called Iraq and yet little rogues like Kim, Assad and Ahmedinijad go scott free because we don't have any more resources. Not to talk about all the poor children who have to make do with poor education system in a rich country where rich people enrich themselves even while they spend gargantuan amounts of public money on needless wars and weapons.

On the other hand, ultra-cons have always been wrong on this front and yet they insist on shouting themselves hoarse. The purpose of the war has always been a moving target and please remind the raison du jour for the war? Ultra-cons have created a stink that would put a skunk to a shame, and yet Ann Coulter dares to talk about bad breath! Talk about hypocrisy.

Regards,

Ravi Kulkarni

Dear Ambasteve,

Re 21, it also applies to Muslims in America. If someone is illtreated, it is time we all raised our voices. I am not saying that all Americans are bigoted and treating muslims badly. I am not a muslim and don't know how an average muslim in America feels, but in times like this a case can be made for extra sensitivity. Japanese internment during WWI and WWII readily come to mind.

Regards,

Ravi Kulkarni

Hey Guys,

Ann Coulter and Glenn Beck's comments fall into the catagory of Op-ed. Whether you agree with them or disagree with them is a non-issue. They can and should speak their piece without management or some "big brother" figure saying they should apologize, or change their tone. The way that you counter speech that you don't like is with more speech; debate, discuss buy advertisements etc. Frankly, if people are offended by Coulter or Beck, don't listen to them. The beauty of our system of government is that speech is protected, ESPECIALLY unpopular speech. Frankly, I wouldn't wipe my butt with pages from Ann Coulter's book for fear of irritation, but I'm glad she has the right to say what she has to say.

I'm still waiting for high level Muslim leaders to get off their collective "Holy Asses" and proclaim the peacefulness of their beliefs by condemning all of the murder (and hatred of Israel) in the name of Allah that their goofy extreme side is perpetrating.

Coulter and Beck are asking questions, they aren't asking for the ritual murder of cartoonists (how soon we forget). Let's put this stuff in perspective. If you don't like their opinions, turn the radio/tv off and don't read the paper. Better yet, write your own op-ed piece and send it in.

Peace,
Scott.

Thanks Scott for your usual level headedness. She is just stating her opinion, I'm just supported her right to do so, agree or disagree.

It's so easy to ruffle feathers on IB, including myself.

I better step in line Scott or the thought police is going to find me and run a magnet or something over me. Norm where are you buddy?

Steve

Hello Dave and everyone,

David writes,"Wow David I'm stunned, well if that's what every thinks here at IB, that Jews have to get over it's victimhood, because afterall the President of Iran is just sticking to the Jewish people and has no teeth, well who am I to argue?"

Ambasteve, David speaks for himself. ONLY.

I strongly disagree with everything he wrote.

peace ruth

FYI: Post number 19 is not from David Hall. We are still waiting for Dave’s computer system to arrive here in Ohio and he cannot sign on IB from my computer.

Happy Holidays to our friends here!

Love,

Patzi

Hello Dave and Everyone,

I do not think anyone was saying they didn't have a right to speak. I think they both do have that right, but everyone who disagrees or is offeneded by what they say, has a right to voice that discomfort to CNN or sponsors or anyone else that supports their high exposure on prime time tv in the hope for program changes. I, for one, would welcome a replacement for the Glenn Beck show, I have been hoping his ratings were low so a change would be made.

have a great day all..going to bake some cookies! ruth

Ref. 21. Yes, I love that quote Amba, tis a good one!

I do not think it is so much about not remembering the Holocaust, b/c one cannot barely even watch any news program (whether it is Fox News, MSNBC, or CNN), Jon Stewart/South Park/or even the late night programming on the Cartoon Network, or listen to a politicians’ speech w/o being reminded of the Holocaust. And I can totally understand the battle-cry ‘never again!’; indeed, what the Nazi government, and the ‘patriotic’ people of Germany, did was a horrifying chapter in mankind’s history.

And there is not a ‘but’ that can follow that, yet there is a when. When will American politicians quit saying Israel has our unconditional support? When will Americans quit turning a blind eye to Jewish settlers taking more land from the Palestinians and saying “G-d said I could”? When will we have an American presidential candidate say, “I will suspend all economic and military aid to Israel if they do not recognize Palestinian authorities”? When will Israel cease to be a topic of American politics? When will other people quit paying for the sins of the Huns? I suspect never . . .

In fact here is an excellent discussion of the situation over at Wikipedia: http://[DELINKER]en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_lobby_in_the_United_States

It would be nice to see the American government take such a vested interest in say the Dalits, or the people of Zaire, or even the inner city African ‘Americans’ right here in the United States . . .

Hmmm, what is going on around here . . .

Peace

"I have been nervous about this interview with you, because what I feel like saying is, 'Sir, prove to me that you are not working with our enemies....' I'm not accusing you of being an enemy, but that's the way I feel, and I think a lot of Americans will feel that way."
-Glenn Beck-

Dave, are you saying that it is not okay to ask this question? Beck stated his feelings and perceptions and also followed with: "I think a lot of Americans will feel that way." This is probably a true statement concerning some Americans, and not just "ignorant red-necks". Should we all pretend that there are not people that feel that way? People are afraid. Whether their fears are justified or not is another issue. But the truth is that people are afraid of all sorts of things that are just nonsense, but that doesn't make it any less human to feel fear. MOST things that people are afraid of are purely perception and it's better to just have them right out there in the open rather than hide them away in the dusty old boxes of the subconscious. Frankly, that's when they manifest as racisim, road rage, sex crimes etc.

The question itself was a statement of his feelings (his feelings are a fact) and the perceptions that many have (also a fact). Via the question, Keith Ellison has the opportunity to put some fears at rest and possibly change the perceptions of a lot of his audience. Without asking the question, all those suppositions that people make concerning Muslims become fact.

Dave, if we follow your line of reasoning we, in the name of political correctness, will stop communicating. When we stop communicating the only other option becomes violence.

Peace,
Scott.

Thanks Patzi,

I'm relieved, I thought it was our regular David and I was so dissapointed, thanks for clearing that up. I was really bummed after reading that.

Thanks Craig, I understand the Dalit situation is really heating up and for the good. I think India is finally waking up. The Jaganath temple in Orissa has finally opened the temple to Dalits and their is strong condemnation from influencial Hindu religious leaders. But don't you know the world goes to hell in the hand basket, yet we still have the daily "condem Israel" roll call in the UN. Frankly I'd like to see less Isreal stuff myself, can you have a word with our fellow in Iran about this ?

Love you all,

Steve

Hello Dave and Everyone,

Hi Scott, Glen Beck's question ""I have been nervous about this interview with you, because what I feel like saying is, 'Sir, prove to me that you are not working with our enemies....' I'm not accusing you of being an enemy, but that's the way I feel, and I think a lot of Americans will feel that way."
-Glenn Beck-

I happened to see him ask that queston to Mr. Ellison, and, yes, I thought he was out of line, completely. The fact that Mr. Ellison is a Muslim American who had just been elected by his fellow Americans to represent them in Congress, absolutely, speaks, to the question of trust that Mr. Beck obviously decided to ignore when questioning his motives on national tv. I believe if "most" Americans had fears about him they would not have voted for him.

It is fine that he asked that question. Mr. Ellison was very accommodating in answering the question, if, I remember right, and, I was disappointed that he was so accommodating because I wouldn't have been. I would have simply reminded Mr. Beck of the fact that my fellow Americans voted for me, placed their trust in me to represent them in looking out for their interests in Washington D.C., and if he has questions of trust he would do better to go to the Americans who voted for me and ask them..

Where was the fear? Who had the fear? Certainly not Mr. Ellisons fellow Americans.

have a great day Scott

Dear Ambasteve,

I felt it important to mention that the individual writing under “David” for the past month is not David Hall. Not certain how that can happen? I know Dave has enjoyed communicating with you in the past; hopefully he will be able to get back on IB in the near future.

Love, Patzi

that glen beck guy is a simpleton...he must be pinching himself every morn and ask...am i really on tv? no? he must be a republican! hehehe!

Ahmadinejad is naught but a toothless tiger anyway Amba, I doubt he could even wage war with Kazakhstan. Well he supplies arms to Hezbollah you say; and well, who is a freedom fighter, and who is a 'terrorist', can become a matter of semantics at this point; was the Maccabean revolt an insurgency of terrorists or just defenders of the faith who were fighting for their religion,

we know what the Seleucids would have said.

The interesting thing about religion is that nation-states have come and gone, but Zoroastrianism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, Shintoism have all remained, through wars, invasions, dispersions, religious competition, yet religion stays. Then you throw in crazy Christians and Muslims and I think we have about as many religions as we need . . .

We should start a new religion brother!

Something like uh . . ., 'The Brotherhood of Aryan Jews', and our motto could be, "one has their own god, and we can have Odin too."

O wait, that waa the reason for so many of those Old T. wars to begin with, well, let me see here, ummm, o, what the heck:

Death to all unbelievers!!!!!!!!

Just a little Hanukkah humor brother, now don't run out of oil before tomorrow night . . .

Peace

Hi Ruth,

For some reason, my reply to you that I posted earlier today did not show up, so I will repeat a bit of what I said.

I don't think the question is out of line at all. If Beck had the concern then there are bound to be others that do...certainly not most Americans, but it would be fair to say that some Americans have this feeling.

To me, the more important thing to consider is that we don't continually wany people being censured for stupid opinions or for asking what we consider "out of line" questions. Better to ask the question and go from there.

In my view Ellison was given the opportunity to change the view point of a lot of people. An opportunity he would not have had, had the question not been asked. After all, he's a grown up and can handle a couple of awkward questions.

And for the record the "American People" that voted him in were a small percentage of one State, not the whole country.

Peace,
Scott.

You think their are many Zoros out there these days? Certainly an influencial religion and the opening scene from 2001 a space odessy "Thus Spoke Zarathustra" is great!

No I'm not in the religion starting business, I'll stick with what I know, sorry if it's a little devoid of Vedantic Unified Field This is an Illusion Become Brahman Shankarite teachings. I think personally that the wise delude the non-wise when one tries to teach a personal realization that perhaps none but the great Shankara has experienced ie "I am That", "Thou art That" , All this is Nothing but That". I don't think one can translate this into a macro ideal society. Sorry to say folks we live in a dualistic (Thanks Zoroastrians)world.

Thanks for the humor, candles are lit, all is well.

Love,

AmbaSteve