You are so right Deepak. The leadership in this administration seem to be so clueless as to the tactful ways they could resolve things...they prove again and again that their fingers are far off the proverbial pulse of reality...
I am of the opinion that the eye for an eye rule will only lead to a world full of blind people...
the cycle of violence only continues and escalates through displays such as this. How do we convince our leaders to choose a different approach before it is too late?

Dear Deepak, thanks for an excellent post on this issue.

It would be always great to hear your spiritual views...

You may be aware of it that Saddam Hussein died on the auspicious day of Vaikunta Ekadashi. It is believed that the Heaven's gates are Wide-Open for anyone who dies on this day -- everyone irrespective of their Karma would attain 'Mokhsya'.

what are your thoughts on the 'Afterlife' of Saddam Hussein? He embraced death showing no signs of fear. He listened to the verses of his holy book in his final moments. His last word was the name of his prophet. Will he be born as a dictator in his next life? or born as a future President of say USA? Or will he attain Moksha as the Hindu beliefs say, and be freed from the cycle of births and rebirths?...just wondering. Dear Deepak...your thoughts from a spiritual point of view is paramount for a broader perspective, given your recent book(s) and articles about "Life After Death" and God which were seminal in their outlook.

Regards

I believe the internet and sites like IB provide a place for change.
We no longer are subject to filtered information from our leaders and a few news channels. Never before have we had the world at our fingertips as we do now.

The people have a voice and as we sing a song of peace together, globally.....CNN will cover it.

Everything is speeding up, technology.....conciousness....communication....spiritual awakenings......and like a gyroscope when it gets to speed, it balances and hums quietly.

We as a global society now have the opportunity to hum together, to create that frequency or vibration..........

It is us that create our leaders.....elected or not.....it is us who have allowed ourselves to be ruled by the super rich and disconnected for so long.

When we decide to be lead by the wise and compationate......then we will see a wise and compationate leaders.

The world has for so long been disconnected...geographically.....spiritually.....conciously.....now things have changed with the internet. Borders are dropping, cultures are merging, our old ways are fading into new ones.
Evolution marches on.....giving us the chance to co-create a new way of living with each other.

If we focus on the violence we feed it.......if we focus on peace we feed that as well.

If i focus on the violence i feed it........when i focus on peace i feed it.

peace comes from peace.................dooldeman

Dear Deepak

Most people know I'm contra-Bush. IMO, he's one of the least wise and intelligent men to have ever held the position of US President. His staff is no better than he is. So what I write below is not an apology for their existence or actions. It's a recognition of other realties that played out in Hussein's execution and in Iraq's current situation...

First, not everyone in the US thinks like Bush. We do have some intelligent and sensitive people here, and some are in positions of power, even. It's said that US advisors were upset and felt the speed of Hussein's execution was wrong -- please see this article in the NY Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/01/world/middleeast/01iraq.html

Second, where in your article is there any condemnation of the Shiite Iraqis who controlled the trial and the execution? They were not being controlled by the US, rather the US was attempting to do things their way. To some degree, this was self-serving on the part of the US -- imagine the outcry if the US had taken direct control of Hussein's incarceration, trial and execution -- it would be major blood in the streets right now, I'd guess. But going along with Iraq, trusting the country to take care of its own in this aspect of its history, was more than a US-self-serving thing, it was also recognition of a fundamental fact, that the crimes Hussein committed were racial or tribal crimes against his own people. Who more fitting to try him and carry out the sentence than Iraqis?

Right now, it's fashionable to blame the US for everything. While the US had acted unwisely and sometimes corruptly on the world stage, they have not committed every wrong affecting the world today. In fact, they've mitigated a lot of the world's wrongs over the years. The US isn't perfect -- nor is anyone else. It's very easy to stand, hands in pockets, and tell how it should have been done after the fact, and even during the act. It's a very different thing to be doing the doing. I'd like every country that criticizes the US to try to do what the US does for a month. I'd guess things would get a whole lot more confused than they already are.

Please give us a break from criticising the US for everything, and look at the more fundamental issues and forces that determine what happens in the world.

The US may sometimes be present and acting in an arena. And in the past 7 years, it may also be extremely unwise, and sometimes cruel. But it is not the god of the universe, it doesn't control everything. To point a finger at the US when there are other more valid and living forces at work, is to unwittingly deceive your audience.

Here is how the US was fundamentally at fault regarding Iraq: It entered Iraq and attempted to change its history sooner, rather than allowing the change to happen later in a natural way.

The cause of most of the 100K deaths in Iraq is tribal and sectarian violence, not US troop actions. The motives for that violence have existed in Iraq for centuries.

To enter Iraq at all and paste the letters "US" on the conflict that was already there was an act of supreme stupidity. Sooner or later, Hussein would have left the stage, and exactly the same conflict now being played out in Iraq would have played out then, it just wouldn't have the letters "US" attached to it.

By the way: The US media can sometimes be tasteless. But it's usually not. Are you aware that Fox has patterned itself on the lurid media standards of UK tabloids, not on traditional US media standards? It's easy to point a finger at Fox because it's the only one of its kind (at least at the moment) in TV in the US. What about the rest of the US media, one of the best media industries in the world, in terms of accurate, responsible and sensitive reporting?

Dear Observer

Hussein had lived with fear of his Shiite opponents for months. He had ample time to put on his actor's mask. He was penultimately a showman, and so he was to the last. Was his cursing his executioners an act of fearlessness? I'd say he was scared almost to death. It was the pivotal Shiite-Sunni confrontation in Iraq, and he was at its center, cornered with no way out. If he had been able to get out of that room, do you think he would have stayed and allowed himself to be hanged? His courage was alive in his ability to mask his fear. But IMHO the real man died in fear. This is the man who made my pity come alive. For all his brutality, he was as human as the rest of us.

love, Heath

Dear Deepak,

I think that the thread broke when the US began the war and the policy of strike first, sort out the details later. It's just getting harder to pretend that the thread is still there. Saddhams execution seems insignificant compared to the other atrocities. The fact that the news networks played it continuously is par for the course. It's our dark side on rewind and replay.

Personally, I didn't watch it and don't generally watch the news at all anymore. Perhaps that's a cop out, but there is so much good within us and so many who are working to help. I'd rather not stare at the darkness anymore. I'm not denying it's there and it's within me as much as it is anyone. I just don't see that it helps to focus on it. I want to focus on what will bring us together, not whose fault it is that we're so far apart.

Love, Kristin

Love, that referal to that jurisdiction.. Deepak,

There is also a Peace Palace, in the same town..

Great way, of welcoming 2007! Best, Peacefull, (with a capital Peace, ;) wishes, vs. hypocrisy..
;)

Love, Passion,
marek

Deepak laments on this fine New Years Day:

" The sad truth is that America's moral position in Iraq--and the world at large-- hangs by a thread, and the execution of Saddam made the thread thinner than ever."

I'm reminded of one Dr. Chopra's core beliefs:

"The world is as You are"

In my world, I see a brighter future now that the source of so much misery for so many people is no longer living. Perhaps the method was crude and yes barbaric, however, this is what the Iraqi Govt deemed the best way to conduct his trial and outcome.

What's done is done.

Steve

Bush has it like no one else in the world: Soldiers from minorities and the masses go and get killed in Iraq. Taxpayers fund the war and the war profits go to big US companies--Bush's friends and GOP allies. A totally inept buffoon such as himself stays on (like an emperor) in the white house for a full 8 years because of the support the war creates for him. Israel's enemies are eliminated in the mideast and Jewish money and support is forever won over by the GOP in the US. Bush's jihadist-racist Christian constituency salivate at the prospect of impending (c)rapture in Bethlehem. Bush finds a lot of time to cut brush at his ranch during this time.

I find your focus on the role and behaviour of the U.S.A very wise, Deepak, because you are a citizen of that country. In this conflict with Iraq you choose not to point the finger to "the other", but to honestly and courageously look at the role you yourself, as a country, have played in it. It's the hard way, and it usually doesn't look pretty, but it is the only spiritual way to handle conflicts- both on a personal and on a national level.

I heard you talking about this in Holland once and it has a very powerful effect. First, your honesty and humility as an American citizen neutralizes the image of "bully riding on high horses" that the U.S.A has gained in the rest of the world, and second, it immediately leads to a willingness in the listener to look inside and take responsibility, too. It is an admirable and wise thing you're doing, thank you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Criminal_Court

The International Criminal Court (ICC) was established in 2002 as a permanent tribunal to prosecute individuals for genocide, crimes against humanity, war crimes, and the crime of aggression, although it cannot currently exercise its jurisdiction over the crime of aggression. The ICC is designed to complement existing national judicial systems: the Court can only exercise its jurisdiction when national courts are unwilling or unable to investigate or prosecute such crimes, thus being a "court of last resort". Primary responsibility to exercise jurisdiction over alleged criminals is therefore left to individual states. The court can only prosecute crimes that were committed on or after 1 July 2002, the date its founding treaty, the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court, entered into force.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Court_of_Justice

The international Court of Justice or World Court as you refer to it is an arm of the United Nations which exists mainly to decide border disputes. Countries who refuse to abide by the decisions of this court must answer to the Security Council.

Hello Deepak and Everyone,

What man is suffering from and the cause of so much misery in his world is his lack of emotional intelligence, we are, now, at this time in our human history probably functioning at a toddlers level of emotional intelligence, as far as, understanding of self, and understanding of self in relation to others who share our space.

OUr biggest hurdle to overcome our toddlerhood is our dependence on religion, religious teaching, and religious rituals. If we cannot move beyond a more enlightened concept of "who we are" in realtion to a "god" figure then we will be stuck forever in the hell of ignorant babble we shout at each other each day. We are crawling on all fours when it comes to our emotional intelligence as a race. Banging each other over the head, sticking arrows through the hearts of those who threaten our cave. When it comes to emotional intelligence, we are the cave dwellers of the universe...gotta go..someone has just grabbed me by the hair, dragging me back to my cave..

Seriously, man needs some serious movement in the area of his emotional consciousness. He cannot stay in toddlerhood forever and hope to survive his physical and intellectual strides, either we learn to stand up and walk upright emotionally as well as physically and intellectually or we will be seeing a lot more barbarism instead of less in our future.

Really, look at our behaviour, everywhere, slobbering, complaining, biting, hitting, beheading, raping, shooting, stabbing, blamming, burning, stealing, starving, imprisoning, torturing, etc., are these actions of a race that stands upright and walks with grace and pride and confidence? Nope.

happy 2007 everyone, ruth

Dear Deepak,
I feel a deep sense of sadness over the entire situation in Iraq, and cannot participate in any sense of joy over another death. In your words, I hear you offering a louder and louder warning to the US and to the world. I want to take a moment to offer you an invitation to hope. It is through communities like you have established that we still have the power of transformation. Today I place my consciousness on the power of peace> I stand gazing at the still, clear pool, and softly, reverently, drop my pebble of peace. Remember the beating wings of a butterfly can change the world.

Dear Deepak,
I feel a deep sense of sadness over the entire situation in Iraq, and cannot participate in any sense of joy over another death. In your words, I hear you offering a louder and louder warning to the US and to the world. I want to take a moment to offer you an invitation to hope. It is through communities like you have established that we still have the power of transformation. Today I place my consciousness on the power of peace> I stand gazing at the still, clear pool, and softly, reverently, drop my pebble of peace. Remember the beating wings of a butterfly can change the world.

Dear Deepak,
I feel a deep sense of sadness over the entire situation in Iraq, and cannot participate in any sense of joy over another death. In your words, I hear you offering a louder and louder warning to the US and to the world. I want to take a moment to offer you an invitation to hope. It is through communities like you have established that we still have the power of transformation. Today I place my consciousness on the power of peace> I stand gazing at the still, clear pool, and softly, reverently, drop my pebble of peace. Remember the beating wings of a butterfly can change the world.

Happy New Year, Peace to all.

People emulate those that they admire. As is the microcosm, so is the macrochosm. If the US becomes more of a country of peace and spiritual prosperity, democracies will flourish.

We must be just and fair with all souls. I agree that Hussein should have been turned over to a world court.

Love,
Jori

Dear Deepak,
I feel a deep sense of sadness over the entire situation in Iraq, and cannot participate in any sense of joy over another death. In your words, I hear you offering a louder and louder warning to the US and to the world. I want to take a moment to offer you an invitation to hope. It is through communities like you have established that we still have the power of transformation. Today I place my consciousness on the power of peace> I stand gazing at the still, clear pool, and softly, reverently, drop my pebble of peace. Remember the beating wings of a butterfly can change the world.

There are a whole more courts with intl. juridisdiction, friend..

Google transnational for homework, first, intergovernmental later,
and crimes..

or was the case above, a precent, the first, known to mankind..

Better yet,
a history book, on dictators, evil empires,
and (in)'justice'..

You know what? when I'll be in the area of, one,
of those institutions, I'll make some pictures, and put on my photodiary,

In the meanwhile,
let somebody else give a lecture,

Better yet, let's raise the bar.. a woman..

and a lecture on intl. law.. on these blog..
wouldn't that be..

Dare you, girls..

with,
Love, Passion,

But now thinking of that.., de-facto measures, and pro-active*less.., serie of screw ups, in that, ah, don't get me started..

but anyhow,
Good question, wich institution(*s?), coulda, but didn't.. but hadda shoulda.. just because..
they..coulda..

Been some time for me, but I do believe I didn't drink that braincell away..;)
nor some email adresses..;)
I'm gonna get a seccond opinion, of a prof, on that, he drives a Harley to class, and told me, after I asked him in a space time continuum not so long ago, 'so, where are the big bucks in intl.law?'
he, almost exploded, turned all red, and said: Marek! if money, is the motivation, you know what you should do? start a columbian drug cartel!
seriously, he said that,

anyhow,
Defacto it's easy to blame,

nonetheless, but sure would love to read, your
thoughts,

if you have any.. offcourse..
;)

girls..

Love, Passion,

Hello Deepak and Everyone,

My prediction for 2007 is that this will be the year that the human race will face one or more predicaments that will call forth a conscious movement in our emotional growth, as a species and as a world community. We will be pulling ourself up, holding on, getting a feel for our emotionally intelligent legs.

I think 2007 will be an exciting time for us as a species that is conscious of it's very real spiritual nature, not religious nature, but spiritual nature. Religion will be taking a back seat, this year, where it belongs, and man's spiritual emotional intelligence will be presenting itself, in all it's grace and glory.

at least that is what is flowing out of my consciousness tonite..do not know if it holds any water, but we will see.

later, ruth

maybe, my sinus infection has gotten out of control?

You know what, you can mail them yourself, here'a some Q & A,

9. How is the ICC different from the ad hoc Tribunals for Rwanda and the former Yugoslavia? top
The International Criminal Court is the product of a multilateral treaty, whereas the Tribunals for the former Yugoslavia and Rwanda were created by the United Nations Security Council. These tribunals were created in response to specific situations and will be in existence for a limited time period. The ICC is a permanent international criminal tribunal and will avoid the delays and costs of creating ad hoc tribunals.

10. How is the ICC different from the International Court of Justice? top
The International Court of Justice (ICJ) does not have criminal jurisdiction to prosecute individuals. It is a civil tribunal that deals primarily with disputes between States. The ICJ is the principle judicial organ of the United Nations, whereas the ICC is independent of the UN.

http://www.icc-cpi.int/about/ataglance/faq.html#faq10

It all depends how far you go into history in that case, for starting, seccond, how you 'define' a whole bunch of legal labels,
but the problem is, nobody really gives a ...
let alone, move their ass, untill..

Alternitive Dispuut Resolution, malfunction/screw-up, is my first thought, seccond, unability to sue for damages,
and than comes (*intl.) criminal law, but that's defacto..

With
love, Passion

Jann & I slept restlessly all Friday night, Jann saying that she felt shaky earth energy.

I'm not going to say a word about fairness. We can debate that all day...but what went through my mind the whole night were the words, "somebody's going to pay for this. Somebody's going to pay for this."

Unfortunately, it's probably going to be ordinary people who didn't have a goddamned thing to do with it.

Because that's how violence bursts to spread its caustic seed.

It always is.

But you know, before the damn thing escalated,

The dipolomats knew..
what was going on,
but and instead of ..

Is there a intl. court wich trails diplomats? that is my question..

There should be one.. on-line..you-tube-d..

With
Love, Passion,

In some conversations I have had on Suddam's hanging; was some people felt, Bush served him the slaughtering; on the plate, to satisfy the american people; as demanding to know why they invaded Iraq... it was a smoke-screen; to things happening.. a shift in global power; all plotted out, secret/silent agreements made... 60 years ago...

In this sense; we are all hanging by a thread...

Well, now thinking of it..
Conditio sine qua non, causa proxima, and so on.., who should be trailed first..

Take an actor in intl. law of your preference,

I have some 'favorites' but, would love, to read,
other opinions,

Ltz,
Love, Passion,

Guys, eeuhh girls..
the field in intl. law isn't that..

wich are the actors on the scene,
states, intergovernmental organization (IGO),
non-governmental organizations (NGOs),legal entities, and private persons,

but,
What do you do with the mob(sters)..?

What did they do..with..?

What could they have been done..

Head of states aside, what happens backdoors, is what bugs me..

or interests behind, not-doing..

If you need another hint.., girls, just post..

Love, Passion

Now you've got it, Marek.

It's only the voice of the common man (media helps there), and legal system (rule of law) fairly determined and strongly enforced, that can succeed against the backdoor guys.

love, Heath

What an emptiness "loss for words " spawns.

Just got spammed by a Turkish princess,
so..

The UN screwed up because they (shoulda) known, they were dealing with American idiots,

The intl. community, failed, because..

the rest is history,

ltz,
love, passion,

This turned into a little bit of a rant. Sorry for that, but it is expressive of some of my feelings on this whole Iraq fiasco.

First, here's some links to read up on re Saddam's execution

Bush Silences a Dangerous Witness
www.truthout.org/docs_2006/123106D.shtml

End of Another Year ...Baghdad Burning
riverbendblog.blogspot.com

Heather wrote an interesting post. I understand the sense of tiredness with the US-bashing.

Except that it's not US-bashing. The US has helped other countries in the world. We had a golden period after World War II where the world looked up to us and we took our responsibility as the victors of that war to establish some new principles of leadership.

We had limited success with that, but it was enough to make us the world's darling for several decades. Even while we were viewed as leaders in cultural trends and marketing policies there were very nasty things being done around the world by our CIA, and beginning with Vietnam we rescinded back into a pattern of fighting the wrong wars for the wrong reasons.

The neoconservatives that have been eating America like a tapeworm from the inside out were youngsters cutting their teeth on the political process in those days.

It is not that America is always wrong. Or that America has created all the world's problems.

Rather, in the past 6 years, and in many instances before that, even under Democratic Administrations, America has made several HUGE wrong moves that killed lots of innocent people, destroyed nations, and degraded the lifestyles of working Americans.

America has also, in cases where we didn't create the problems, failed to rise up and take expected leadership roles on problems we didn't create.

Where were we on: AIDS? Rwanda? Darfur? Global Warming and before that Environmental Protection (an area that thirty years ago we WERE world leaders in)?

Instead we were infatuated with oil and puppet regimes, showing a willingness to befriend any dictator who we could cut a deal with. Don't forget that the country that gave us almost all the 9-11 hijackers is considered our ally and in fact, a good argument could be made that they are a major advocate of escalating US troop levels in Iraq the war as a safety measure to make sure they don't have to fight there.

"We'll fight them there so we don't fight them here" has morphed into "We'll send more troops so the Saudis don't have to fight."

And anyone who thinks that the Iraqis acted sovereign from the US in the Saddam trial is seriously confusing the puppets with the puppeteer.

And remember that holding the government to task and monitoring the behavior of elected officials is a core, essential responsibility of being an informed citizen in a Representative Republic.

People speaking out when they see wrongs and not accepting the pablum from the Ministry of Propaganda (of whom even the beloved CNN is arguably a borderline member) ARE the patriots.

People who take seriously the Constitution and protest when it is violated by our own government ARE the people who are actually taking action on behalf of the United States.

I come from a military family. I grew up around the military. The men in my immediate family have over half a century of experience in the area of - that's right - Military Intelligence, and have seen combat (not office jobs - combat) in three major wars.
So please - don't talk to me about who loves this country.

I have known veterans - lots of them - I have seen the PTSD in my own father and in dozens of other veteran-friends. I know what they have to go through to get the illnesses treated or even to get a shred of respect from other average Americans that judge them because of their disabilities.

When Americans are ordered by their superiors to make the ultimate sacrifice for a purpose they know in their hearts is misguided, a basic disconnect happens in the psyches that can ruin the entire rest of their lives. You see lots of heavy drinking, depression, joblessness or wandering from dead-end to dead-end. And this is those who survived combat largely because they were lucky enough not to get their heads blown off, unlike some of their best friends.

And I happen to know what many of them - who have been there fighting in Baghdad and Fallujah - think about this war. And it is generally NOT what the White House, or even CNN for that matter, is telling us.

It has nothing to do with being a liberal or a conservative. It has to do with having enough discernment to realize that protecting Democracy is not the same as protecting the Carlysle Group's profits, and it is not the same as shielding war criminals from prosecution, even if those war criminals are our own politicians.

We are repeating all the mistakes of past empires, repeating a history that Mr. Bush apparently didn't think it was worth going to class to learn, and with a military that apparently he didn't think serving in was important enough to show up for.

And that's a real problem. The America-bashing is coming from the White House. The Bush-Cheney White House has given the USA a hell of lot worse bashing than any protestors ever thought about.

The protestors are trying to stop the mindless bashing, slashing, wheeling, dealing, and killing, and restore America to our actual position as world leaders.

I leave you with this:

Ike Was Right
www.truthout.org/docs_2006/122706F.shtml

"As Eisenhower warned: "We should take nothing for granted, only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.... We want democracy to survive for all generations to come, not to become the insolvent phantom of tomorrow."

---------- Forwarded message ----------

From: Dil
Date: Jan 1, 2007 11:41 PM
Subject: RE: Benim omrumde irmaklar vardir
To: marek podsiadlo

wauw! Thanks! :)

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: marek podsiadlo
Date: Jan 2, 2007 12:40 AM
Subject: hey dil,
To: Dil

I'm gonna let you in a little secret..

Vriendschap, vriendschap, a gift, most (Dutch) people don't really know about..

De liefde, een mysterie..

Divorce court, wat waren the statistics, 51 % within..

zoiets..

That's life. I suppose..

Maar wat mij een beetje deed, ..afvragen..

respectfully..

How are you doing? !!!
jeetje...

da's alles,
gr,
marek

Great post, yogi-one

I don't mind US bashing generally speaking. But when like pre-existing conditions are ignored, and focus is given exclusively to what the US did and didn't do, in a situation where if the US had never been involved the result would have been the same, when Hussein was removed from power, however or whenever that happened, I get annoyed at the one-sided presentation.

love, Heath

ooooh.. this turkish princess..

guys.. seriously..
you shoulda.. see her in a ballroom dress..

my god..

I cater to this girl any day..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYu_8jT91jQ

;)

love, Passion,

ok, I've spammed, the turkish princeses, in the meanwhile, with all the polish magic I have..

we'll see..
anyhow,

Funny story, got a cell phone bill, not so long ago, a 1100 something Euro's, in one month, while
she, lives a 5 minutes, on a bike, 15 walking, 17, by car, ayhow.. go figure..

anyhow, the world's courts, and F*@# up's, heck!, yes!, trailed @ The Hague, no question about it, possible!,

Can I get a seccond legal opinion on that?

Love, passion,

Congrats yogi-one, you are wise!

You call that wisdom..?

Guys, let me take you to Poland..

You step on a wrong Ego's foot, and it's 'game over'! no court time.., just a next re-incarnation, or the hospital if you're lucky..

Democracy?
Let me post a Polish saying,
Freedom? tylko w obrazkach..
(*in fairytales, pictures, obrazki..)

Love, passion

I love this, dialogue..

Daniel: Hey - you ever get into fights when you were a kid?
Miyagi: Huh - plenty.
Daniel: Yeah, but it wasn't like the problem I have, right?
Miyagi: Why? Fighting fighting. Same same.
Daniel: Yeah, but you knew karate.
Miyagi: Someone always know more.
Daniel: You mean there were times when you were scared to fight?
Miyagi: Always scare. Miyagi hate fighting.
Daniel: Yeah, but you like karate.
Miyagi: So?
Daniel: So, karate's fighting. You train to fight.
Miyagi: That what you think?
Daniel: [pondering] No.
Miyagi: Then why train?
Daniel: [thinks] So I won't have to fight.
Miyagi: [laughs] Miyagi have hope for you.

Dear yogi-one,

I don't come from a military family, but, let me tell you a story,

When my dad, got political asylem in the dutch country, he made friends, whith some polish
WW II, survivors, after they liberated, some parts, of that, darn county, some stayed, got married, and are buried, @..

anyhow,
The story was, the polish boys, in the last days, of WW II, they could care less!, all they wanted was to get home, they re-grouped/organised.. well the English army, had some plans.. but little did the Polish soldiers knew, there would be no air support, so they, surpassed enemy lines, and the English thought they were Germans so the planes, wiped them to..to be buried at a Dutch cemetary, for communications 'faillures',

friendly fire.. is what they call(ed) it..

War..

Got some Dutch buddies, on exchange, navy seals,
afganistan, I call them .. nevermind..

Love, Passion,

the yogi did not say anything new but...the spektic seems impressed...well it must be a borin' day...no?

hehe!

Absolutely Yogi! I might as well 'do an Amba,' (har har har) and cut and paste the entirety of the last link you provided . . .

And in response to Heather's statement, "Please give us a break from criticising [sic ] the US for everything, and look at the more fundamental issues and forces that determine what happens in the world." Here is a rather nice piece by Ivan Eland, "George W. Bush: Islamism's Best Friend"
http://[DELINKER]www.antiwar.com/eland/?articleid=10248

‘The real menace,’ or, 'Ike was right.'
By Robert Scheer

The public, seeing through the tissue of Bush administration lies told to justify an invasion that never had anything to do with the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11 or weapons of mass destruction, now has begun a national questioning: Why are we still in Iraq? The answers posted most widely on the Internet by critics of the war suggest its continuation as a naked imperial grab for the world's second largest petroleum source, but that is wrong.

It's not primarily about the oil; it's much more about the military-industrial complex, the label employed by President Dwight D. Eisenhower 45 years ago when he warned of the dangers of "a permanent arms industry of vast proportions."

The Cold War had provided the rational for the first peacetime creation of a militarized economy. While the former general, Eisenhower, was well aware of the military threat posed by the Soviet Union, he chose in his farewell presidential address to the nation to warn that the war profiteers had an agenda of their own, one that was inimical to the survival of American democracy:

"In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist."

Ponder those words as you consider the predominant presence of former Halliburton CEO, Dick Cheney, in the councils of this White House, and how his old company has profiteered more than any other from the disaster that is Iraq. Despite having been found to have overcharged some $60 million to the U.S. military for fuel deliveries, the formerly bankrupt Halliburton subsidiary, Kellogg, Brown and Root, continues to receive hundreds of millions of dollars in lucrative contracts.

There is more. Military spending has skyrocketed since the 9/11 terrorist attacks, returning to Cold War levels. A devastating report by the Center for Defense Information, founded by former top-ranking admirals and generals, reveals that in the most recent federal budget, overall defense spending will rise to more than $550 billion. Compare that to the $20 billion that the United Nations and all of its agencies and funds spend each year on all of its programs to make this a safer and more livable world.

That U.S. military budget exceeds what the rest of the world's nations combined spend on defense. Nor can it be justified as militarily necessary to counter terrorists, who used primitive $10 box cutters to commandeer civilian aircraft on 9/11. It only makes sense as a field of dreams for defense contractors and their allies in Washington who seized upon the 9/11 tragedy to invent a new Cold War. Imagine their panic at the end of the old one and their glee at this newfound opportunity.

Yes, some in those circles were also eager to exploit Iraq's oil wealth, which does explain the abysmal indifference to the deteriorating situation in resource-poor Afghanistan, birthplace of the Sept. 11 plot, while our nation's resources are squandered in occupying Iraq, which had nothing to do with it.

Yes, some, like Paul Wolfowitz, the genius who was the No. 2 in the U.S. Defense Department and has been rewarded for his leadership with appointment as head of the World Bank, did argue that Iraq's oil revenue would pay for our imperial adventure. A recent study by Nobel Prize wining economist Joseph E. Stiglitz and Harvard University's Linda Bilmes marked that absurdity by estimating the true cost of the Iraq adventure to U.S taxpayers at a whopping $2.267 trillion, in excess of any cost borne by the Iraqis themselves.

The big prize here for Bush's foreign policy is not the acquisition of natural resources or the enhancement of U.S. security, but rather the lining of the pockets of the defense contractors, the merchants of death who mine our treasury. But because the arms industry is coddled by political parties and the mass media, their antics go largely unnoticed. Our politicians and pundits argue endlessly about a couple of billion dollars that may be spent on improving education or ending poverty, but they casually waste that amount in a few days in Iraq.

As Eisenhower warned: "We should take nothing for granted, only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together ... We want democracy to survive for all generations to come, not to become the insolvent phantom of tomorrow."

Too bad we no longer have leading Republicans, or Democrats, warning of that danger.
http://[DELINKER]www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2006/12/27/EDGOULJ6PK1.DTL

Also, a must read for searchers of truth everywhere is “Perilous Power: The Middle East and U.S. Foreign Policy.” by Noam Chomsky & Gilbert Achcar! I am halfway through the book, and it is indeed quite illuminating.

Peace

Hello Deepak and Everyone,

Hanging by a Thread..yes the human race is hanging by a thread considering the fact that we are an intellectually bombarded, emotionally retarted species at the present time. It is sad to say but we have neglected our emotional intelligence thinking that if we focused on accumulating educational degrees it would make up for the fact that we are not able to stop sucking our thumbs when it comes to separating from the mommy and daddy of intellectual approval and recognition. We have replaced our true knowing with the plaque on the wall stating that we are indeed an expert, highly educated and paid well for our services to our fellow man. We only listen to the voices that come with a paper declaring it the voice of reason and logic and education, lots of education, preferrably an Ivy League education, other voices need not be heard.

peace ruth

24 months left and counting...
gwb is running out of time, are you ready?

There is much more to come, I think, across the several boards.

(PS: glad you got to hoot out of that the other day, Aurora, couldn't get back to it till now, life is full - no complaint - didn't want you to think i was a-snubbin' you tho.)

Hi Deepak,

I am confused somewhat by this post. On the one hand we can agree that this war was a folly and based on at best bad intelligence and at worst outright untruths.

Where we part ways on this is in the "handing over" of Saddam Hussein. From what I have been hearing/reading for some time now is that many believe that Iraq had/has a need to handle their own liberation, particularly when it comes to the Hussein regime. I agree with this belief; in many ways the wests' intervention in Iraq has essentially emasculated the Iraqi people. Freedom that is "given" by some outside party is not really freedom at all, rather it is something granted by another power. Which conversely means that it can be removed by an outside power. Of course this is all perception, never-the-less when a people rises up against a repressive force themselves they feel liberated and empowered. Americas intervention did not allow that to happen, subsequently Iraq has been robbed of that important step. Handing Hussein over to some international court is just another way of saying that Iraq is just not civilized enough to handle their own court system and their own liberation. To me, handing Hussein over to some court outside his own country can easily be perceived as arrogant and "holier than thou". At least I would feel this way.

While you and I also agree that execution is barbaric and probably useless, the fact that the Iraqi people decided this in their court of law AND took the action themselves may actually be empowering to them. While I believe that American intervention and invasion has been a debaucle and the cause of many of the problems in Iraq, frankly the only way that that area can stabilize is to stabilize itself. The new Iraqi government must be given back real responsibility for Iraq.

You can spend months and months practicing your front crawl on dry land, but you cannot learn to swim until you jump in the water and flail about. Executing Saddam may be part of the "flailing", but in order for this area to stabilize there are going to be many things that happen that the west might find distasteful, but it is not up to the the west (in my opinion) to agree or disagree, only to stop interfering.

Peace,
Scott.

Ruth,

"yes the human race is hanging by a thread considering the fact that we are an intellectually bombarded, emotionally retarted species at the present time."

Very well said.

Peace,
Scott.

The Squid, don't worry, I don't see the world in that way :) Do enjoy your full life!

Scott, may I ask: do you believe that killing a human being can be appropriate under certain circumstances? Like in "the end excuses the means"? I'm asking because that's what the Iraqi themselves believed when they executed Saddam. If you believe that it is right to let a nation kill its leader to gain self-respect, then you have the exact same frame of mind as they do. So I don't understand why you call the execution barbaric and useless- you obviously perceive it as useful. Don't you?

I cannot say I understand a call to civility, given the atrocities. I agree that all should have been named and remembered as the reason for the trial and execution.

However, surely you are aware of Milosevic's heart attack which raised questions about the credibility and legitimacy of international courts. I suppose a heart attack before all the evidence is in could be considered civil.

Supranational! that was the word!,

Wikipedia that,

The rest, illusions of notions of
sovereignty and conditionning..

With Love, passion,

Dear Deepak and All,

When Scott and I were first married he used to try and get me to watch violent movies with the revenge plot. It took him quite awhile to figure out that it was poor planning on his part to drag me to see those movies and then reach over for a snuggle! Those images were horrible to me and the whole experience left me feeling terrible.

Anyway, what I want to comment on is something I observed watching those movies. We all know how the revenge plot goes so I won't go into that. But what was interesting to me is that at the end of the movie when the infamous really bad guy was caught there would often be this moment of "should I show mercy" or "should I do the right thing" on the part of the hero. However - that same hero probably killed or seriously wounded countless EXTRAS in the film before he got to the final scene. The extras are people like the guy standing guard at the door or the regular person in the wrong place at the wrong time. These people were written out of the movie at random and never thought about again - but the really evil guy that everyone knew was guilty of the crime got a whole scene's worth of consideration and often got to live long enough to make it into the next movie.

My point is that until we can look at the regular guy on the street with compassion and a sense of equality, we will keep playing the same old game of glorifying the famous and the infamous and letting them play out our dark and light side. The message being - you're nothing if you're not the main character. When in reality, all the characters are vital, equally important and worthy of love, life, and happiness. I must not be evolved enough to care that much about Saddham being executed, but I do ask myself what about all of the "extra's" in the world who are killed or starve and die needlessly? Why don’t we put more energy into seeing them?

Okay, so maybe I got a bit off topic, but that is what deepak's post stirred up within me. Until we can all remember that we're all main characters and learn to honor all of life, we'll stay stuck replaying the same old movies.

Love, Kristin

off topic.. Kristin..

let me.. I've had it with that turkish capricorn woman!

seriously,

(*but I did spamm her, just in case..;)

Love, Passion,

well,
more Dutch than turkish to be precise,
but that's beside the topic..

Love, Passion

Aurora,

I do think the killing of Saddam is pointless in the sense that Saddam is a symptom of the problems in the Middle East right now, not a cause. If the root causes are not addressed than one "Saddam" after another will appear. However, I'm also not arrogant enough to believe that I can stand from outside and tell another country what to do with its criminals anymore than I think that the United States should enforce Democracy on another sovereign nation (although I do believe that Democracy is a better system of governance than others). I find it arrogant to assume that it's up to an outside country or countries to tell others how they should govern or ajudicate justice. Again, I think the the execution will have little value, but at least Iraq gets to decide...something that they have not been able to do for some time. And that is important.

I also find it interesting that we are making such a big deal about Saddam's execution. In light of the fact that 100,000 of his countrymen are dead in this war. It just reminds me how elitist the world can be: Famous people cannot be killed, but if your not famous you are simply a statistic.

I was not attempting to defend capital punishment, only defend Iraq's ability to be free to make her own decisions.

Also, you ask: "do you believe that killing a human being can be appropriate under certain circumstances?"

Actually my answer would be yes. In defense of other innoccent lives I do believe that at times killing neccessary. If my children or anothers were threatened, (for example) I might kill if I had to and I think you would too.

Peace,
Scott.

Thanks for your feedback, everyone. My post wasn't directed at Heather, but it was hers that triggered my thoughts.

Scott said, "I was not attempting to defend capital punishment, only defend Iraq's ability to be free to make her own decisions."

I would like to see that too. That will take a number of years, and I'm afraid it won't be possible as long as we have a military presence there and an interest in their oil.

I am not against the execution of Saddam. In fact, I think he would very likely have been executed if he had been given a fair trial or trials for all the major atrocities that happened under his rule. That would have been fine with me. It's not about the verdict, it's about the process.

Why wasn't he tried like Milesovic? Why didn't we get the details on the other atrocities? Why the rush to just kill him? Why on the holiest Muslim day, a day supposed to be given over for Forgiveness?

There was plenty of evidence against him.

But we'll never get to hear 95% of that evidence. The families of 100,000 Kurds and many thousands of Shiites that disappeared under Saddam will never get completion. They will never have the facts revealed surrounding their family-members' murders.

And the American people may never know what the real transactions between Saddam and the Reagan Administration were during the Iran/Iraq War.

We'll never know if US money paid for the chemicals he used on the Kurds, or bought torture devices for him to play with at Abu Ghraib years before we got there, or purchased weapons and ammo for him to fire at the Iranians.

Or maybe in 50 years some geeky historians will access the archives and the information will come out as a footnote of a bygone era.

Which I suspect is exactly how the Bushes want it to play out.

Dear Scott,

It is interesting that you see the attention the world gives this issue as elitism. Saddam is simply a strong symbol, thus extremely well suited to ring a bell, make us pause and do an inventory of our beliefs and behaviours and their relationship to the violence in the world.

One of the main things we need to reconsider is exactly this issue: do we believe that killing is a solution under certain circumstances?

Because if we do, we will surely notice that there will always be easy for the mind to find such circumstances. Saddam believed that the circumstances required him to kill people, the different fractions in Iraq believe the circumstances are such that they have to kill each other, the suicide bombers believe the same, the U.S, Palestina, Israel, Afganistan, everyone believes that killing is appropriate and a solution to the problems they perceive.

No Scott, I do not believe that killing is necessary. I do not believe that killing is a solution under any circumstance. I believe that killing is absurd and a complete lack of creativity. In any situation, there is an abundance of creative, constructive and uplifting solutions, if we can only transcend this absurd and barbaric aggressive instinct. Even if a child or my own child would be threatened, as you say, there would be many many things to do that do not require killing. I do not "have to" kill under any circumstance, and neither does any other human being who has freed himself/herself from this old reactive pattern.

Also, the symbolic killing of Saddam gives us the opportunity to consider another issue: do we see the world as isolated countries with distinct borders and separate populations -- or as one global community? Do we see the ignorance as "over there in their mind" or "right here, in our collective mind" ? If higher values arise on the planet, do we keep them "for ourselves" or do we spread them?

I agree with you that the U.S.A has acted in an utterly arrogant manner, and as I see it, it happened because of the frame of mind that says "I am separate from you, and I am better". But when the world community sent troups to Lebanon to stop the massacre - it was from an attitude of "we are in this together and we are stopping a part of ourselves from hurting itself". It is all in the inner attitude. Attacking a country to impose democracy because you feel they are barbaric and separate from you, and leaving a country to its own mess as they are separate from you both come from the same inner attitude.

If we reconsider that attitude, if we center ourselves in the humanity that we share and in our oneness, with the understanding that none of us is better or worse and that violence is an impulse that we all share and need to overcome, then solutions involving international peace-keeping and life-saving actions would not be arrogant.

Thank you for your wish for peace, Scott, we all have that in common :)

Hello Gotham and Everyone,

I know a few people who have grown up in the Quaker tradition and they call themselves pacifists. Now, this is not something they have consciouly chosen becuase they have encounterd a situation where they made a conscious choice, but rather it was the envirnoment in which they were raised. So, really, it is not that they are true pacifists they are really just stating the fact that they have an idea about themselves being pacifists. I mean, they have never really been tested, their idea about who they think they are versus the reality about who they are has never been tested, they have never been in a situation where whether to fight, or not, kill, or not, for whatever reason, has never been brought to the forefront of their consciousness where they have had to actually choose one over the other.

So, what I am saying is that you can have an idea about who you are and then there can be the reality of who you are. Most people define themselves by their ideas about who they are, not by the reality of who they are, because the reality of who they would, actually, choose to be has never persented itself.

peace ruth

Good points, Yogi-One.

Ruth, I agree with you that we can't honestly say what we would do in a situation unless we are actually facing it. The best we can do is to train ourselves to become more and more aware and conscious of our choices. And that's a big step.

Love, Kristin

Aurora, the problem with a "higher value" is that a "higher value" is a perception just like anything else.

For example one of the problems that the west has with some Muslim countries is one of perception: The west sees a secular government as a "higher value"...we see having a government that is non-religious as important, that way the governed are able to worship as they wish and taxes don't go to support a State Church (like the Church of England). In contrast, many Muslim countries like Iran see a secular government as being evil. Their "higher value" would be in having a government that is based on Q'ranic law. These two viewpoints are in direct opposition.

It doesn't matter which viewpoint is correct (if in fact a viewpoint can be correct); what matters is that it is a basic human need to have some sort of control over the direction of ones life and ones government (to at least feel that way anyway).

Yes, we are all one, but we are also not all one. We exist and work on many different realities at the same time. My guess is that if you try to tell Iran or Iraq or Canada for that matter, that we're really all one and so our system of government and justice should be yours too you might meet with some resistance...in fact my guess is that they will tell you where to put your "oneness" and in fact may give you a hand putting it there.

If Iraq were to tell your country that you needed to impliment the death penalty because it was a "higher value" my guess is you'd have a disagreement.

I'm just saying that it's not as easy as you may think. Happy thoughts don't always make things better (they don't hurt though).

Peace,
SCott.

Scott, I like the way you make me think :) Somehow they're still happy, these thoughts of mine :D:D I'm convinced that many people today are ready to tell me where to put my "oneness", lol...

You understand perhaps that I don't suggest that Iraq would somehow suddenly feel oneness with the rest of the world. But those people and nations who are starting to perceive this oneness can let themselves be guided by it. It's very difficult to ignore our oneness, as it becomes more and more obvious that whatever we believe or do, it affects everyone.

It's true, values are personal and cannot be other than correct for the ones who have them. But you also talk about basic human needs, and I know of nothing more basic than the need to stay alive.

I know that people can find common ground if they keep things simple. Take two people from any two different countries and they will both value peace, prosperity, friendship and the life and happiness of their children. I think it is on this level we need to meet, and I believe it is possible (you're right, it may not be easy) to even meet Iraq on this level. At least a part of its population, who has had enough of the killing and suffering. Who says it has to be easy?

If we sincerely want to understand and help a country, if we respect them as much as we respect ourselves, if we consider their happiness as important as ours, they will know the difference. We might be surprised, but a country that has become a monster of defiance and hate when despised, attacked or pressured will transform as soon as OUR attitude towards them changes. This is the law of relationships.

It's actually not so difficult when you realize that the change comes from inside you, not from inside them...

I agree with all you say Aurora. We do all have similar needs and values...humans are humans. And I think you're right, all dialogue and connection beginning with commonalities rather than differences.

None of these situations are going to be easy to change as their genesis was centuries ago. According to Maslow's Hierarchy of needs, the lower needs must first be satisfied before the higher ones become important. As Iraq becomes more secure and a safer place for her citizens to live in, things like abolishing the death penalty are far more likely to happen.

Peace,
Scott.

So that is why the United States still has the death penalty . . .

:) :) :)

Craig,

Having basic needs met makes it more likely that "revenge-type" justice (which is what capital punishment essentially is) less likely to happen...but does not guarantee it. Hopefully things will change.

Scott.

Just checking . . .

A lot of good posts on this thread by everybody, and I especially liked Aurora's 52 . . .

And for the record, and this is not directed at you personally Scott, but I don't think Saddam's 'trial' was in the least a fair and impartial judicial procession; I do believe there was definitely no way he would have been tried under an international (like U.N.) court of justice b/c he coulda spilled way too much dirt upon the U.S. . . .

and one definitely does not see the U.S. government giving itself up to Belguim for war crime charges . . .

Like they should . . .

Buit then again, what hath 'truth' and 'justice' to do with the American Way anyway . . .

Peace

Hangin by a thead?

You tube.. yourselfs.. the soundtrack,

Once upon a time not so long ago:
Tommy used to work on the docks
union's been on strike

He's down on his luck - It's tough
so tough.
Gina works the diner all day
working for her man

She brings home her pay for love
for love.

She says: We've got to hold on to what we've got
'Cause it doesn't make a difference if we make it or not.
We've got each other and that's a lot for love -
We'll give it a shot.

We're half way there - Livin' on a prayer

Take my hand and we'll make it
I swear - livin' on a prayer.

Tommy got his six string in hock.
Now he's holding in what he used to make it talk -
So tough
it's tough.
Gina dreams of running away
when she cries in the night
Tommy whispers: Baby
it's okay
someday.

We've got to hold on to what we've got . . .
We're half way there - Livin' on a prayer
. . .

We've got to hold on ready or not

You live for the fight when it's all that you've got.

We're half way there - Livin' on a prayer
. . .
We're half way there - Livin' on a prayer
. . .
We're half way there - Livin' on a prayer
. . .

Who..? ther was this..
;)

Ok, here then..
;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQ0Ca2sm5z0

With Love, passion,

eeuhh.. Craig.. correct me if I'm wrong, there are some fine institutions in Belgium.., you have to visit Ghent, magic! and the Ardenne's..
but.. eeuh the courts, are in The Dutch country, eventhough the diplomats, and their 'entourage' get flown in, on tax payers, money, 2 times a month, but don't sue, had a couple of beers.. to Straatsburg and Brussel,

but that's a whole different..

Love, passion,

I just couldn't resist..

Craig, did you, read about, the,

U.S.: 'Hague Invasion Act' Becomes Law
White House "Stops at Nothing" in Campaign Against War Crimes Court

Seriously, it happened..,

unbelievable!,

Should we hear, a Dire Straits song on the background..

of,

Love, Passion,

"This provision, dubbed the "Hague invasion clause," has caused a strong reaction from U.S. allies around the world, particularly in the Netherlands"
http://[DELINKER]www.hrw.org/press/2002/08/aspa080302.htm

Or just Google "Hague Invasion Act"

I remember something about that when it happened Marek . . .

Thanks for the reminder. Yes, one day, hopefully the richest 1% of this country will get theirs, but I fear it will once again be the poor fighting and being killed when Iran, China, & Russia finally have to act . . .

Peace

i totally agree with deepak.

what the usa is doing is so full of hypocracy and not real democracy at all.

namaSte, shannon

Scott, I hope to have the pleasure to meet you and Kristin over a cup of tea one day :)

That would be great Aurora.
Love,
Scott.

Re: yogi-one
The best kept secret about American Imperial Wars is that they were always initiated to defend the Imperialists under the pretext of false morality... So I am afraid your opinion about the World War 11 era which you are proud could change after you read some of Chomsky's books and talks..

Also take a closer look at the present Corporations who are all fighting hard in all possible ways to defend their unilateral prosperity from spreading to ordinary US citizens including War Veterans.. And looks like they are winning as always no matter we protest or not... (No impeachment for Bush by Pelosi, Nixon Pardoned by Ford, History repeats again and again...)

What thread !!!, I mean 46 million uninsured Americans and still Innovations in Drug has priority and no Universal Health Care. US can have CIA cells in foreign countries and can kidnap foreign citizens for torture but at the same time US fears about counterfeit drugs from CANADA. LOL!!! Now that Detroit is complaining about additional Health Care costs Congress will bail them out with Tax subsidies but still no Universal Health Care. Corporations even want the pie out of privatized Social Security and they will succeed with the next Republican Congress. Our own Oil not being nationalized benefits ExxonMobil to earn 10 billion in one Quarter !!! Oh ya, lets have Free markets... Imagine 50 - 100 years from now, a college kid will not be able to trade mark his own Punk Hair style and then he/she will have to learn all the immoral tricks like “Martha Stewart insider stock trading” but this time just to survive... What thread !!!

Yes! You know it Seeker.

Peace

Execution of Saddam Hussein: Forgiveness vs. Anger

by Arvind Singh
Originally posted on Nexus Novel Blog
On December 31st, 2006 at 11:03 pm

Saddam Hussein was like some world leaders who place ambition or an ideal before dignity of human life. The broader question is whether his trial in Iraq was fair and what it truly means for the future of Iraq.

With numerous defense lawyers gunned down, a divided Iraq along sectarian lines, and a US-backed government in power, the question of a just trial under those circumstances was always remote.

The execution was motivated by anger, the desire to hurt a man, who like other leaders was responsible for carrying his nation into war and death. The trial could have allowed Iraq to heal old wounds if it was conducted impartially and with the idea of restorative justice and not mere punishment.

An international court or at least one by impartial judges would have lend credibility to the proceedings. However, this trial was not about broader question of justice, especially since with his execution he will not be tried for other alleged atrocities, except possibly in absentia.

The quick execution of Saddam was meant to serve as a “blow” to the insurgency. Other markers in the past, such as, Bush declaration of an end of combat operations, killing of Uday and Qusay Hussein, the capture of Saddam, two elections, death of al-Zarqawi have proved unsuccessful in the past. Hussein’s execution likewise will not quell the insurgency, especially since “Saddam loyalists” are only a small percentage of the total insurgents. The Sunni-Shia divide cannot be bridged through more executions, killings and military operations, since more insurgents will come to replace those who become “martyrs.”

Interesting the timing of the execution was on a holy day for Muslims, Eid-al-Adha or “Feast of the Sacrifice,” which concludes the Pilgrimage to Mecca and remembers Abraham’s willingness to sacrifice his son Ishmael to God (in Biblical version the son is Isaac). In forgiveness, God sends a ram in place of Ishmael as the sacrifice.

On the three holy days of this feast, clemency and generosity are revered as virtues. So Saddam’s execution can be considered insulting to Muslims. Instead of forgiveness, the impression of an unfair trial and execution will further allow Sunnis to feel alienated and powerless in occupied Iraq. Mercy instead of a vengeful execution could have provided a framework to heal old wounds and created forgiveness. Any power-sharing discussion needs to start with mutual respect between all parties otherwise the status quo will continue.

Only a climate of forgiveness can allow for the creation of a truly sovereign and national government that represents all Iraqis. Without unity, division and hatred will lead to a continuation of violence. Revenge satisfies but only temporarily, since antagonisms are still left intact and the anger harms personal and social health. The virtues of generosity and forgiveness can create long-term change, where the greater good of people matters more than any one section of society dominating another.

Forgiveness is important in many world religions and it requires releasing the mind from past hurts, pains and resentments. Through forgiveness, we achieve healing and without it we remain stuck in our anger. Negotiation requires parties to understand each other’s perspective beyond anger to the pain that underlies it. With forgiveness, we can understand our own position and are receptive to listen with compassion to another perspective. It is the first-step in reconciliation among people and in a nation.

Unless Iraq can turn to forgiveness, the alternative seems to be an ongoing civil war and strife. Unless the “Iraqi” government can bridge the chasm that separates ethnic groups and give Sunnis dignity, it will remain a government whose primarily support is sectarian i.e. Shia-based and dependent on the presence of Amercian troops.

The parties in Iraq have two responses available to them. The first is the approach of anger resulting in reprisal killings which has already resulted in huge loss of life. This vengeful attitude arises from fearful “fight or flight” response. That response is also responsible for creating stress in everyday life.

The alternative response is “face and forgive.” That is the only response that can allow an end to the cycle of violence, yet it requires moral courage, which is a commodity lacking whether in the Bush administration or the “Iraqi” government. Without it the violence will continue and the US will continue to occupy Iraq. The path of anger has been selected through military hubris and brute force and only with courage, vision and conviction can it be changed.

In the final analysis, guilt or innocence is less a product of seeking justice and more a question of who can enforce it. With the fall of Saddam’s dictatorship, he was easily put on trial where the conclusion had been largely predetermined. That “justice” was based on vengeance, which satisfies anger, yet it cannot heal.

True healing can only begin when forgiveness enters the human consciousness. The execution of Hussein is just another sad and violent episode in Iraq’s occupation period. True courage would have required mercy and forgiveness, especially on a holy day that remembers those virtues.

Anger will continue to play a part in Iraq’s future. But we need to ask who will have courage to forgive? Without forgiveness, justice remains an act of retribution instead of restoration. Without civility that arises from dialogue, common ground and compromise will remain elusive in Iraq.

[To view original post click my name below]

Excellent Arvind!

I am going to do a big ol cut and paste with your post, with due credit and links of course.

If this bothers you just say the word and I shall delete from me web page no problem.

Peace brother!

Empyrius,

Information needs to be shared. So feel free to repost on your Web Page. You can link directly to http://nexusnovel.wordpress.com/2006/12/31/execution-of-saddam-hussein-forgiveness-vs-vengeance/

Cheers,
Arvind

Awesome! Thanks Arvind!

Peace

If the stories are true, and you feel all the suffering you created in your life, after you die... you really have to wonder... pity the man now...