Life is a strange creature indeed.

HI Gotham,

I agree with you that most of young americans follow gungsta culture and they are out of control most of the time. However following loser Indian culture is also not good idea. I mean look at history of India, India was ruled by almost all color of people except blacks.
However I am not saying following Latino or Black style is cool.
May be I am little bit blunt However I feel that follwoing free culture(mainly European) is/was the reason behind leadership of Americas in Science,technology and other area.
Some argue that India is doing really good in tech sector or specifically IT sector.I agree with them.
However this success would be limited because I do n't think Indians are inventing anything.
I hav't seen Company like google,yahoo,Microsoft or even You tube is from India.Though most of Workers for Big IT Companies are Indians or In India.But Not Larry ellision,Bill gates or Sergy
My Point is It is good to proud of your culture However It is not wining culture..
Again U.S is free country Everybody has right to follow what they think is cool or right lifestyle for them.However I am not convinced Indian culture is good.Actually I think So called Superior Indian Culture is highly overrated by old folks and
Indian Media or Media run Indian to market their not so competitive Products or services..

It's like comment from George Constanza of Seinfeld 'I am bald, Short and Living with parents .Still, I have to live life with it.'

Well, Some confused Indian in US will make similar comment like George

'I am Indian. still, I have to live a life with It.'

Note: I think Bhagra and Other Indian music is gay.Mainly they copy from here.

-JD

Of course we all suffer an identity crisis, our true self wearing a disguise. For sure everyone wants a cool one.

Hi Gotham,

You are not at all sounds like Gotham uncle. You have raised an important issue. But I hope, most of them must be the students from South Asia, came for study there. They are free birds.

My experience is that the families migrated from India / South Asia have kept their tradition and “Sanskar” intact and most of them try to follow the tradition / rituals. In fact they feel shocked when they go back to India or south Asia as they find the people there have progressed (!!) with the time.

I think, more to be done at home…

Gotham:

Interesting post. I think the Indian parents err on one of the two ends - either very conservative or very liberal. And in either cases the kids get whacko-ed!

I think there is a case for us Indians to re-understand their history and re-evaluate it. I believe that the British written history and cultural symbols for us within the country have been a great disservice.

One of the reasons why you and Mallika feel so grounded maybe is because your parents put the Indian thought and history in the right perspective.. so you could level-headedly evaluate it without dogmas. That is a BIG task!! I wish Dr. Chopra could write a book for the Indian Americans or Indians in general on effective parenting in the world of contradictions! What seemed natural to you.. was actually very hard work on part of your parents.. so it would be generous of them if they could share the "Best Practices"!!

As for Jignesh, remember that until well into the 1700's India had world's highest GDP and between China and India we controlled almost 60% of world's production! So you are talking from the benefit of just 250-300 years of vision.. and I am referring to 5000 years of civilization. When European culture TRIUMPHS as an enduring culture for 2-3000 years of world dominance.. then lets start comparing.. its easy to create a cracker in a lab but to create a real bomb on a large scale takes a different skill, my boy!

Cheers,
Desh
Drishtikone.com

Hi Gotham,

Welcome to 30!

I'm 42 and it was about your age that I started to notice that there was a vast difference between being 20 something and being 30 something.

I think what you are experiencing is pretty much what every family experiences at some level, especially as a 1st generation American. Each generation is one more removed from its' "mother" country. I bet in some ways your parents or maybe your grandparents looked at you and Mallika and saw "American kids" and at least on some level wondered where your "Indian-ness" went.

I remember I was about thirty when I first started seeing wealthy, suburban white kids with their pants hanging down, hats cocked sideways, flashing faux gang signs and using street slang. I thought it was the most ridiculous thing I'd ever seen. Kids are just trying to find their way and fit in with the culture at large (odd as at it may seem to you and I). Ten years later those same kids have outgrown that phase and moved on. Come to think of it, when I was a teenager I was pretty sure that I was going to be a rock star: big hair, screeching guitar, groupies, etc. My mother wore the same expression on her face that I did upon seeing the white "gang-bangers". I remember my Grandmother telling my mother: "He's dancing with the devil Carol" (same thing she said to my mother when mom was listening to Elvis) but alas the dance lasted only long enough for me to realize that I had no musical talent whatsoever.

I suspect that those same twenty-somethings that you dealt with at the conference will outgrow this life phase and will suddenly become interested in their heritage and family culture. Who knows, your comics might be the very thing that spur the interest?

By the way, I've picked up all of the issues of Sadhu; the story is engaging and the artwork spectacular (and I'm not even a 20 something Indian).

Peace,
Scott.

Hello Gotham!
My name is Todd. Your father is quite familiar with me. I recently had a powerful vision of you. You were a (gatekeeper) somewhere in Southeast Asia. Your purpose was extremely valuable! You provided a different path to a (better) destination to many, many people. Your value in your mission rivaled even your fathers. I am most impressed with your Comic Book project! Be patient and expand upon the good work you have already done. I remember reading something your father wrote about comic books he read as a child. They had Vedanta like portrayels of non-physical worlds, beings etc. I am a little older than you but I can tell you I would like to see a comic book like that. Anyway, I wish you the best with your career and mission.
Todd

Sorry, to hear about that dissapointement,

but you know.., they're students..

Maybe, later, in a different phase of life, or when they settle down..

But than again, most people don't get it anyhow,
or value, archetypes, innerchild and so on,
because, of Ego and..?..

Anyhow, I used to find myself pretty special, for
my love, of the spiritual stuff, Poland-Netherlands, nowadays everybody, especially the elder are into 'esoteric' stuff, I think, propebly, because of the poverty, sometimes financial, sometimes even worse, cultural,
but you need at least some contrast to know,
and value..

Asfor me, A polish woman, do you know how the girls dress there..man! no freakin' kiddin'! and they bake you a homemade cheesecake without asking..;)

With Love, Passion,

Desh: “remember that until well into the 1700's India had world's highest GDP and between China and India we controlled almost 60% of world's production”

Last time when I checked date on my computer, it was 01/09/2007.
“THIS IS 2007”, 21st Century not 17th/18th century.
And about 5000 years old stories about Indian GOD and Cultures. well. nobody has proof of Indian God stories. Somebody might have made up those stories. Since Indian culture do n’t encourage questioning elders and religious establishment those stories are going on and on. Still more than 1 billion ill informed people follow that crap.
BTW Like your name (Desh) you are also Gay(Not cool).
-JD

Jignesh:

First, you dont get much of anybody's arguments.. and second you go on with your vocabulary whatever that means!

I never talked about Gods or culture. I talked about success.. economic success. As per HARD economic numbers, India had the HIGHEST GDP (that is Gross Domestic Product).. GDP, btw, has nothing to do with God or Goddesses. What I am saying is pretty simple - in a 250 year span it is one thing to get success.. but to be successful over thousands of years requires a different skill.

For someone to generalize the way you do about what "works" and what doesnt based on your interpretation of 250 years of data is pretty shallow level of analysis.

What Indian "culture" encourages or does not is also your shallow understanding. As per the scriptures - since you do equate God and Culture so well - the ONLY scriptures that put questionniing OVER faith are the Vedic scriptures like Bhagwad Gita (the very reason why there IS a Gita is because Krishna did not shut up Arjuna with the "Faith" crap.. and instead answered honestly and humbly each and every question - including giving credit for a philosophy where it belonged "this is what the learned rishis say"!) and Vasistha Yoga.. rest EVERY scripture, Saint, Guru, Prophet.. etc could himself from emphasizing on the CENTRALITY of FAITH.. thereby squashing ALL questioning!

The reason why Indian culture and economy fell from the pinnacle it once had was because we strayed into the "faith" area!

And conversely the VERY reason why the European culture got prosperous was to do with the Protestant ethics of questioning and exploration. Read the book "CUlture and Prosperity".. and it says (again, based on last 250 years of data) that the societies - based on empirical evidence - most likely to be wealthy are those with Protestant-centric ethic.

That US is moving away from that ethic basis is, in my mind, harbinger of the coming economic turmoil!

I dont know what you mean by "gays" but the contemporary meaning is a little different. Anyways.. its a little tough to expect sanity from a blinded and close minded person like you..

so you be "un-gay" and enjoy your ignorant bliss!

Cheers,
Desh
Drishtikone.com

But than again, maybe it's a imagination, thing,

I sooo love(d), Batman!, the Punisher!,
Sgt. Rock!, brilliant
and these black and white, WWII, and cowboys, comics, the small ones, you know?
collectors items, crap I've shoulda, kept them,

anyhow, in the topic,
Holland, serioulsy, is a country,
'wealthy peasants', is my verdict,

Poland, facinating, the wall coming down and so not so long ago, the changes, damn, enormous,

Love, Passion

But you know what pisses me off?
And since you're buddies with Richard Branson..

THERE IS NO FREAKIN' DECENT GYM IN POLAND!
that and THEY CLOSE AT TEN!!! in the evening and, 4 o'clock in the afternoon,
like oversized garage-boxes,

and they close the whole peasant-ville called Holland, at..don't get me started..

You should open a Chopra Centre/Spa in East Europe, now that I mention, it,

What was the average pay, in Poland, 650 dollar, something like that, what do you charge for a massage in NY?

Business oppertunity, tell your buddies,

With Love, Passion,

Before I, have to do my laundry, since,
no, woman.. is.. ironing my shirts..

In Holland, despite, the peasants, and over-regulation, and the 'No Service' attitude,

Business, and dealing with civil servants is done on the table, and you don't have to worry, about mobsters,

In Poland, first you have to know the right people, who know the right people, than know, who to pay, how much, under the table, but at the end of the day, it's one big corruption!

But they do bake the best cheesecake, the Polish girls, so, guess.. where, I'll be.. enrolled..soon..

students.. seriously, pick 'em when they're young!, I'm thinking 20, 21, years old, law faculty, preferably, medical school seccond best.. well, but than again..
Post some pictures soon..;)

Love, Passion

Gotham

As a first gen parent of second gen teens (my parents were the zero gen like your dad) I feel your bewilderment. I don't see any cohesive cultural thread for the teen/20 somethings. Even Bollywood movies are not the connector they once were, and frankly some Bollywood movies nowadays are no more than extended MTV videos. I don't really know why this is happening. I can only hope that like me and like many others younger than me, these kids will slowly gravitate back to that which they pull away from now.

Sounds like the Universe manifested your comic book characters and you ran from Hotel Marvel. :)

The Comic of the Goose and Gander without Gender

I'll tell you an Indian Superhero story on seeing a point I very much identified with and I am not Indian.

A few years back a friend I'll call Joe had dealings with a business owned by an Indian family in the US. Their son worked for them.

When I met him I was quite surprised with all his piercings and he was late 20's reading Harry Potter. I dunno. I wanted him to be a guru, serious, and philosophical, spouting profound wisdom and he was this party boy.

The story goes the father confided to Joe that he felt his son was still living at home and had gotten caught up in the Western youth scene. Joe advised (I thought it too bold) that the son be put out on his own and be thus forced to make his own way.

Within 4 months, Joe, instead, was put out on his own after sharing a long-established rental relationship with friends.

He went on to buy and sell real estate. Last I heard, he was doing very well.

That's a young Indian Superhero. I wouldn't have them any other way. ;)

hey gotham,
i had the same reaction when i went to a SASA conference in orlando a few years ago. same situation: scantily-clad 15-year-olds throwing up in the front lobby at 2am while their wannabe gangsta one-night-stands stood nearby talking fake street. we were only there a night but barely got any sleep. it was so sad; the most well-attended event was a panel on dating. it gets even more worrisome once you have kids -- i cringe to think my daughter will grow up in this atmosphere. (ok she's only 10 months old, but still...)

but then i think of college -- i don't know if you ever went to any of the indian-club parties at yours -- maybe the street culture aspect was missing but there were plenty of scantily-clad vomiters in the crowd back then, too. i don't know how most of them turned out, but i think we grew up just fine with all that going on around us. the smartest and brightest may not have been represented at that conference -- i don't know any of my peers who actually attended those conferences. they seem pretty self-selecting to me.

Dear Gotham

Here's my theory about who leaves a homeland and why, and what they bring with them to a new country: The people who leave are less complacent and more idealistic than those who stay. Maybe your family genes carry more seriousness and idealism than those of the families who conceived and raised the kids who surprised you.

love, Heath

I could of course scream and (mis)quote Eric Cartman, "This country has warped my frgaile little mind" :D

or i could post this verbose comment ...

I have seen firsthand what you describe Gotham, but yet i feel strangely apathetic to it.

It is always a choice very integral to the process of growing up to either confirm to the Lowest Common Denominator or carve your own identity. May be the teens you saw at the convention... just are normal everyday young adults (emphasis being on young) who found the role model most easily accessible and decided to emulate them.

I was bombarded with the "twenty something" megaton culture shock when I came to US six years ago, not necessarily from the Americans, but by the first invitation I got to an "indian" party.

But I have long since learnt that the way to happiness lies somewhere in between complete apathy and an occasional shake of head in such matters.

A Lifestyle / outlook on life (though to a certain degree molded by the world around you) has more to do with personal choice than anything else. So even though I can not understand the choice, I honor it and walk away.

For me it is kind of like seeing a kid with a match box, a candle and a fire cracker.

If it is a three year old, I shall probably go take the matchbox away.

For a ten year old might try to talk him out of it or try and convince him to light the candle.

For a sixteen year old or above... I choose to walk away.. and let Darwinian Natural Selection kick in.

Worldwide Release January 2007

Guru...

Monica is right. The vast majority of the "south asian conferences" are not substantive and party-centric. I attended just one conference my entire time in college and it was SAAN over at the University of Michigan. Awesome conference, awesome participants and speakers and well coordinated. I still remember my experience fondly and only have good things to say about it. If you ever get a chance to attend SAAN, go for it.

post 18 is nonsense...what about smart people who...through no fault of theirs... cannot leave their homeland because of economic reasons...are u gonna blame it on bad genes? get real!

Dear Diablo

Historically, most people who emigrated from their homelands to the US and other western countries did so because they were economic, social, relgiious and/or political refugees, or because their standards of living were so low that if they hadn't moved they might not have survived. There would have been trauma from the leave-or-die pressure. Cultural and religious practices and beliefs would have been taken seriously -- the emigrants were being forced to leave their towns, buildings, land, animals, societies, and climates behind. Whatever they could take with them in their minds and hearts would have had importance to them. Their genes (tough enough do whatever is required to survive even if it means leaving everything behind to make a new life) and attitudes would be passed on to their children.

Who stayed? Those whose lives were less threatened.

Are you thinking about immigrants to the US and other western countries being well-educated and funded?

I think that trend has only been in effect for about 30 years, and it applies to only some groups of people. For example, most of those who can "afford" to come to the US from Mexico make the choice to come because it's their only viable way to make enough money that their extended families in Mexico don't die of starvation.

love, Heath

Yeah.. that's true. While where i live has a pretty big indian population, It apperently is a newer occurance as most of the indian kids in the area are just now in in highschool, but mostly younger. I have seen a few though and they tend to hang out with the black students (that's here in college, the k-12 of my town is mostly white and asian, not many black/hispanic students at all). I made the mistake of asking an Indian classmate last quarter if she had seen any bollywood films and she scoffed at me and was like "hell no" but her olllllder sister does. :p.

i found it really ironic meeting these kids that i am so much more "indian" in general outlook in life than they are, regardless of ethnicity. From values (well, in occordance of the times :p) to just cultural things, i've imbibed, but they've rejected. example I get along great with the Indian Student Association (of indian kids getting their masters (mostly) here at my uni.. and which does not consist of a single american-born/raised Indian, but a handful of non-indians) who have enthusiastically made me a part of their group. They at least will argue with me over whether shahrukh is worth the hype or not(in my girly opinion i say yes) and dance along to movie soundtracks with me. ;)

Globalization is pretty weird sometimes.
:)

no offence gotham, but u do seem like gotham uncle from this post :P

whats wrong in saying "niggah" - its just become a part of language now, its not even about being cool or uncool... besides u went for SASA?!! atleast in my school SASA is composed of students who have never been to india n think they know about it... n they ofcourse know nothing.

also.. you really can't blame students for wanting to just get drunk n hook up.. atleast the first year ones.

gotham:

as a 30 year old indian female, i can relate to your post wholeheartedly... although i felt this way about the kids when i was in college and in my 20's, and not just now.. all the 'indian' clubs at colleges were all about... hooking up and partying, just like any other culture of kids in that age demographic..

i stayed away from the indian student associations like they were the plague, and conferences, since i knew what they would all be like...

i don't know whether or not to blame this so-called 'identity crisis' on the parents (now i sound like an auntie) or just the way we've assimilated into the 'american' way of life..

sorry you had to switch hotels... sad thing is, this identity crisis surpasses those just in college... it happens at the indian medical conferences, older indian professional association conferences, etc...

thanks for sharing your viewpoints...

gotham:

as a 30 year old indian female, i can relate to your post wholeheartedly... although i felt this way about the kids when i was in college and in my 20's, and not just now.. all the 'indian' clubs at colleges were all about... hooking up and partying, just like any other culture of kids in that age demographic..

i stayed away from the indian student associations like they were the plague, and conferences, since i knew what they would all be like...

i don't know whether or not to blame this so-called 'identity crisis' on the parents (now i sound like an auntie) or just the way we've assimilated into the 'american' way of life..

sorry you had to switch hotels... sad thing is, this identity crisis surpasses those just in college... it happens at the indian medical conferences, older indian professional association conferences, etc...

thanks for sharing your viewpoints...

gotham:

as a 30 year old indian female, i can relate to your post wholeheartedly... although i felt this way about the kids when i was in college and in my 20's, and not just now.. all the 'indian' clubs at colleges were all about... hooking up and partying, just like any other culture of kids in that age demographic..

i stayed away from the indian student associations like they were the plague, and conferences, since i knew what they would all be like...

i don't know whether or not to blame this so-called 'identity crisis' on the parents (now i sound like an auntie) or just the way we've assimilated into the 'american' way of life..

sorry you had to switch hotels... sad thing is, this identity crisis surpasses those just in college... it happens at the indian medical conferences, older indian professional association conferences, etc...

thanks for sharing your viewpoints...

Dear Mr. Chopra, I have an answer to your 'identity crisis'.
I sent you an invitation to speak at the SAAN conference a few months ago, hoping you'd be interested in sharing your work with us South Asian students here at the University of Michigan. After reading your entry on SepiaMutiny about your experience at SASA, I cannot help but stand up in defense for all us 20-something South Asians that are NOT like the identity-confused sampling you witnessed, but rather appreciative and curious about our heritage and what it has to offer to our generation. You did not respond to my invitation then, but I urge you to take a second look at our generation by attending the conference at the end of this month. In fact, the workshop for which we had invited you is more relevant to your experiences now than ever was; it's called "The Binge Lifestyle" www.saanconf.org
I think that for your own spiritual and mental comfort you need to see and meet the 20-something South Asian kids that plan, execute, and participate in this conference. I am not writing to advertise, but to ease some of the discomfort I sensed in your words.

Hey man Hari here as the Grim AKA. HaHa, I mean Gary.

Hey man I know what your saying, I'm sitting here typing nakedly and today I sat in front a large speaker that our younger generation were playing some "cool" ice music, I had to sit under a tree, with my back to it after and meditate for a few minutes, I found it so hard to read my young labour party pamphlet as I sat in front of that speaker, I told the guy/ dude with his head phones on, hey man "turn it up louder, hey man turn it up louder you f'n weakling, pussy or something like that, I know I was rude but maybe I wasn't really, I mean I had another chap try and help me when I was already being helped and I said to him to never talk to me again!!!! !! and anyway as I said this all happened at uni today, so I know what your talking about Goth, I'm only 30 too and turning 31 this year and I love the way you say your closer to your parents generation, I'm closer to my mum's I'd say, my dad is dying of cancer but anyway, I don't want to talk about it and I certainly don't need any help from Yous.