Dear DK,

In life it is so easy to get lost.

Rumi reminds me, Apavitra pavitro va sarva vastan gatopi va. Yahsmaret pundari kaksham sa bahya bhyanatarah shuchi. "Awareness of God is purity, nothing else."

How can I be more aware?

Love, Kristin

ps. I love this from Rumi:

If God said,
"Rumi, pay homage to everything that has helped you enter my arms."
There would not be one experience in my life, not one thought, not one feeling,
not one act,
I would not
bow to.

Hello DK and Everyone,

DK, Rumi is lovely.

since, I am reading Adyashanti, these days, I will share with you a favorite,

The waves of the mind
demand so much Silence.
But She does not talk back
does not give answers nor arguments.
She is the hidden author of every thought
every feeling
every moment.

Silence.

She speaks only one word.
And that word is the very existence.
No name you give Her
touches Her
captures Her.
No understanding
can embrace Her.

Mind throws itself at Silence
demanding to be let in.
But no mind can enter into
Her radiant darkness
Her pure and smiling
nothingness.

The mind hurls itself
into sacred questions.
But Silence remains
unmoved by the tantrums.
She asks only for nothing.

Nothing.

But you won't give it to Her
becuase it is the last coin
in your pocket.
And you would rather
give her you demands than
your sacred and empty hands.

have a great day, peace, ruth

January 14: "The Mill", by Rumi

.

The heart is a wheatgrain. We are the mill
where this body is a millstone
and thought, the moving river.

The body asks the river why it runs on so.
The river says, Ask the miller who made
the millrace that directs my falling
that turns your stone.

The miller says, You that love bread,
if this turning were not happening,
what would you dip in your broth?

So a lot of questioning goes on
around the milling of wheat,
but what really is this breadmaking work?

Now let silence ask
about wheat and the river,
about the miller and the stone
and the taste of bread dipped in soup,
and this listening we do at the mill.

.

Translated by Coleman Barks

* The mill is one of Rumi's images for the process
whereby individual grains get crushed to make something
less seperate, more communally useful (bread).
Thought (the riverwater) and the body (the millstone)
are part of this work, as are the miller (creative intelligence)
and the customer (desire), who wants a piece of bread
for his soup.

Chow, Keith~

Dear DK, Kristin and Ruth

Great verses to read this morning. Thank you.

Heath

Dear Keith

Thank you for your post, too, and for the other Rumi's you've posted in these past wintery weeks.

love, Heath

Dear DK
Rumi's poems are great.But it's a pity that love nowadays is found more in verses than in practical life.You have often quoted in your posts and comments full songs of good old days when love practically dripped from each and every song produced by bollywood.Where has that magic gone?

To me,it looks that all of us have suddenly started getting afraid of innocence.To us,innocence has become a sign of weakness.We hide our innocence and laugh at those who display it openly,thus indirectly signalling them to get rid of it if they wish to survive in this 'smart' world.

Tell me,how many adults do you see nowadays who are comfortable with giving a 'free'smile even to a child who happens to pass by his way.Tell me,why cases of domestic discords keep on increasing by the day?Its love,whose purest form is innocence that we,men,have banished from our lives in our effort to become smart enough to be able to face the big bad world outside.

It's this innocence that we have to bring back to the lives of the common man from the confines of the verses.And that will automatically bring a substantial fall in the cases of rapes,murders, domestic violence etc.Lets get 'brave' enough to to avoid looking at innocence with suspicion.

WHY DO YOU WEEP?

Everything you see has its roots in the unseen world.
The forms may change, yet the essence remains the same.
Every wonderful sight will vanish; every sweet word will fade,
But do not be disheartened,
The source they come from is eternal, growing,
Branching out, giving new life and new joy.
Why do you weep?
The source is within you
And this whole world is springing up from it.

Dear DK,

The song "I Died as a Mineral" may be heartrending for others but it certainly must not be for Rumi...

Savour the following paragraph from my book Self Designed Universe -www.selfdesigneduniverse.com(Take Mosc to represent God):

"Yesterday we were animals; a day before, plants; a couple of days before, minerals; prior to that, Mosc. Tomorrow we shall be supermen; a day after, almost unrecognizable but as superior to man as man is now superior to animals; and then, after a long time, first constantly decreasing corporally but increasing cerebrally, then even decreasing cerebrally and changing perhaps to lumps of pure light or intelligence, we shall merge indistinguishably again into Mosc..."

And writing this I was certainly at my soaring/ecstatic best... "

Note: The change I have described above has been shown to take place because of the system of Earth as a whole going through four basic forces or interaction. That the whole evolution is the result of every small or big system's going through four basic interactons is the main theme of my book.

Cheers, Harb

Dear All!

At the end of the above paragraph in my book I have inserted a footnote. Thinking that perhaps some of the readers here might be interested in it too, I am also copying that footnote below:

"16. In this particularly inspired paragraph, which no doubt jumps through higher and higher spirals rather speedily and arbitrarily though obviously to accomplish the hugely difficult task of encompassing the whole of the Universe in a few lines, ‘pure light’ points towards some far off stars which I think would be the end species on the Universal scale as already explained, and ‘intelligence’ is just an effort to co-relate that highest evolutionary status to our human situation; for, after all don’t we also look up to our highly evolved/intelligent men in any field as stars? Moreover, all the changes mentioned in it like increasing corporally and decreasing cerebrally and then even decreasing cerebrally etc have been visualized in terms of the increasing and decreasing importance of the basic forces Mosc entangles into or disentangles from as it moves ahead on its evolutionary journey spiral beyond spirals… Detailed discussion of this phenomenon would come in later chapters.

If some reader should find it difficult to imagine the whole of the Universe ultimately getting reduced to lumps of pure light or intelligence etc, I would like to remind that the whole phenomenal superstructure of the Universe came into being because of Mosc’s entanglement into basic forces, so it should be logical to assume that the reverse would happen as it gets disentangled from them. "

Thanks, Harb

Also to add, that while writing the above paragraph I had not heard of Rumi not to talk of his above poem...I just had the clear vision of what is described in it in terms of four basic forces or interactions. I am waiting for the inevitable day when the so hotly discussed so-called intelligent design will also be understood in terms of the four basic forces or interactions.

Dear DK,

The poems of Rumi are indeed heartrendering. And still this heartrendering truth can be found everywhere. You mention here the Mongols and their war, we still have wars nowadays. Yet wars or no wars, evolution is slowly but surely guiding us to a higher level in my humble opinion. And as Harb describes, it is going through four forces and only backwards will we be able to describe the things we all are going through.

Dear Harb,

I have been interested in the theory of Maslow for quite a while, yet it has a successor that is even more appealing: Spiral Dynamics. More and more people have reached Maslow's top and are now discovering that whole new ways lie ahead of which we are beginning to get a glimpse. And we can approach it from every angle we want: from religion, from science, from philosophy, etc. etc. in all of them the basic truth can be found back: and you have already described it to me so eloquently:

"As there is only One Truth, obviously when you will be able to go to the core of anything you will find the same One Truth there. This is, in fact, how Indian Vedantic sages saw the same non-dual God everywhere.
You really 'see' it outside because you have first realised it inside you in your oneness experience. One cannot see outside beyond what one has already seen/realised inside. Recall a paragraph from my book:
"There is no denying the fact that with each new scientific theory we are actually going deeper and deeper into the heart of the matter - not only figuratively but literally as well. Or perhaps, it would be more correct to say that as we go deeper and deeper into the heart of the matter we encounter phenomena which force us to revise our already existing theories, scientific or otherwise, in almost all branches of knowledge."

Thank you for that, who knows what i will learn and discover in the making of my own 3D adventure that lies now ahead of me :)

Much love

A Ghazal of Rumi in Translation

Don't Say Anything (Rumi)

Except my beloved who I praise, don't say anything
Except sugar and candles, before me, don't say anything.

Don't talk of the troubles, only of the treasures
If distressed or don't know, don't say anyhting.

Seeing me crazy last night, my love said," I've come
Don't cry or take off your shirt and don't say anythng."

"O Love," I said, " I fear something else." Love said:
"That something else is nothing, don't say anything."

"I'll whisper secrets in your ears, nod yes, but
Besides nodding your head, don't say anything."

My heart on its way saw the spiritual beloved
How wonderful is its journey, don't say anything.

"O heart," I said, "what beloved you're pointing to?
You can't value it, pass on and don't say anything."

I said,"am I seeing the face of a human or of an angel?"
It said," Neither human's nor angele's, don't say anything."

I said," tell me what's this or I'll lose my head."
It said,"lose your head but don't say anything."

"In this world you are with many images and scenes,
Pack up and get out of the house but don't say anything."

"O heart," I said, "be fatherly to me. Is God not fatherlike?"
It said, " yes, he is but about his soul don't say anything."

~Ravi Kopra
***
The above translation is based on the following translation by Ibrahim Gamard.

I'm the devoted admirer of a "Moon."Don't say anything
except (about that) Moon. Don't say anything except words about
candles and sugar in my presence.

Don't speak words about trouble; don't speak (any) words except
about treasure. And if you are unaware (of what can be said)
about this, don't be distressed (about it and) don't say anything.

Last night I became crazy. Love saw me and said, "I have come.
(So) don't cry out loudly, don't tear your garment, (and) don't say
anything."

I said, "O Love! I'm afraid of something else." (Love) said,
"That something else is nothing. Don't say anything.
"I will speak secret words into your ear: move (your) head
meaning, "Yes." (But) except for (that indication) with (your)
head, don't say anything."

A Moon (with) spiritual qualities became visible in the pathway of
the heart. What a subtle and exquisite journey there is in the
pathway of the heart! Don't say anything!

I said, "O heart, what is the moon (that) this heart was indicating,
since it is not (within) your (ability to) measure? Pass on (from)
this, (and) don't say anything."

I said, "Is this the face of an angel, (I wonder), or is it human?"
(The heart) said, "This is other than an angel or man. Don't say
anything."

I said, "Tell (me), what is this? (For otherwise) I will
become topsy-turvy." (My heart) said, "Be like this, topsy-turvy,
(and) don't say anything.

"O you (who are) seated in this 'house' full of images and
imaginary forms: get up out of this house, take your baggage, and
go. (And) don't say anything."

I said, "O heart, be fatherly (toward me). Is this not the
quality of God?" (The heart) said, "It is, but don't say anything
about the soul of a father."

***
The original in Persian:

man gholâm-é qamar-am ghayr-é qamar hêch ma-gû
pêsh-é man joz sokhan-é sham`-o shakar hêch ma-gû

sokhan-é ranj ma-gû joz sokhan-é ganj ma-gû
w-ar az-în bê-khabarî ranj ma-bar hêch ma-gû

dûsh dêwâna shod-am `ishq ma-râ dîd-o be-goft:
"âmad-am na`ra ma-zan jâma ma-dar hêch ma-gû"

goft-am: "ay `ishq man az chêz-é degar mê-tars-am"
goft: "ân chêz-é degar nêst, degar hêch ma-gû

man ba-gôsh-é tô sokhan-hây-é nehân khwâh-am goft
sar be-janbân ke balà joz ke ba-sar hêch ma-gû"

qamarê jân-Sifatê dar rah-é del paydâ shod
dar rah-é del che laTîf-ast safar hêch ma-gû

goft-am: "ay del, che mah-ast în del ishârat mê-kard
ke na andâza-yé to-st în be-goZar hêch ma-gû"

goft-am: "în rôy-é fereshta-st `ajab yâ bashar-ast?"
goft: "în ghayr‚é fereshta-st-o bashar hêch ma-gû"

goft-am: "în chîst, be-gû? zêr-o zabar khwâh-am shod"
goft: "mê-bâsh chon-în zêr-o zabar hêch ma-gû

ay neshasta tô dar-în khâna-yé por naqsh-o khayâl
khêz az în khâna be-raw, rakht be-bar hêch ma-gû"

goft-am: "ay del pedarî kon, na ke în waSf-é khodâ-st?"
goft: "în hast, walê jân-é pedar hêch ma-gû"

~Rumi

Love With No Object

There is a way of loving not attached to what is loved.
Observe how water is with the ground,
always moving toward the ocean, though the ground
tries to hold water's foot
and not let it go. This is how we are with wine and beautiful
food, wealth and power,
or just a dry piece of bread: we want and we get drunk with wanting,
then the headache
and bitterness afterward. Those prove that the attachment took
hold and held you back. Now you
proudly refuse help. "My love is pure. I have an intuitive
union with God. I don't need anyone to show me how to be free!" This is not the case.
A love with no object
is a true love. All else, shadow without substance. Have you seen someone fall in
love with his own shadow? That's what we've done. Leave partial loves and find one
that's whole. Where is someone who can do that? They're
so rare, those hearts that carry
the blessing and lavish it over everything. Hold out your
beggar's robe and accept
their generosity. Anything not coming from that will damage
the cloth, like a sharp stone
tearing your sincerity. Keep that intact, and use clarity;
call it reason or discernment,
you have within you a deciding force that knows what to
receive, what to turn from.

~ The Soul of Rumi~ Translations by Coleman Barks

Hello DK!

I have a question!

Which english translator of Rumi poetry you consider very good or the best?

A few months ago I was looking for a book of Rumi. I have choosed: "Rumi Fountain of Fire" translated by Nader Khalili.

Can you recommend us a very good book of Rumi? I know, Deepak loves Rumi, so if Deepak want to recommend something too, it will be appreciated!

Thanks.
Jean

Dear DK,

All the numerous forces working in Nature have been reduced by scientists to four basic ones, known as gravity, electromagnetic force, strong force and weak force.

Whatever you are doing now are doing in terms of these forces, or all your present actions can be reduced to countering these four basic forces. If you are getting up or already standing you are counteracting the force of gravity. Even in your slow growing 'upwards' you are counteracting the force of gravity. All through our childhood we are predominantly involved in counteracting this force (through rapid growng up, through all sorts of jumping, running and games).

If you are feeling any sort of emotions, either of love or of hate etc, you are counteracting the force of electromagnetism. All through our youth we are predominantly in the grip of this force.

Similarly, when you have gone beyond emotionalism a bit and are now rather a rational man, as we are when as a whole we move from youth to our middle age, we are in the grip of strong force. We do all our intellectual work thanks to this force, which at the very core of our beings (kundalini level) keeps us, keeps our basic consciousness, our "I" consciousness confined to ourselves and as a result forces us to develop ego, self-consciousness, thought-process etc etc.

Lastly, when we move into the era of weak force when going beyond intellect we know things rather through intelligence, intution. Here when we are feeling one with others and finally with the whole universe we are just counteracting the work of weak force upon us.

Since always we are counteracting the pulls and pressures of these forces in one way or the other, at one level or the other, scientists call these forces rather interactions - interactions between these forces and every thing/entity including us.

Now, as I have explained in my book, our evolution from birth onwards through childhood, youth, middle age and old age is actually because of our going through these four basic interactions - each day, each weak, each month, each year and finally the whole of our life.

Similarly, now replacing ourselves with Earth, Earth's evolution from clay to minerals (its childhood), to plants to aniamls (its youth), to primates to man(its middle age), to expected what I call superman is because of its going through four basic interactions at all small and big levels.

This continuous evolution from clay to minerlas to plants to animals to man etc is what I have explained in my inspired paragraph written in previous comment and the same fact must have in fact been discerned by Rumi when he wrote his poem "I died as a mineral."

I will say something more in my next post. Please dont rack your brain over what I have written above if you find it a bit difficult to understand or even find boring as commenting on it is not a must. I will understand.

Love, Harb

I am under the influence Of Rumi.
Someday I wish to even up the score.
This was written to a lady friend.
The one who turns my knobs and pushes
my buttons has inspired me & Me2.

"For Pain"

.

I rise above the circumstance
which has no authority
but what I give to it.

There exists no King of Pain,
No Kingdom of Panic to rule.

Signals from every face I welcome.
The face of death has a key
to the door of my life,
but it matters not,
it's open anyway.

Come in, come in...
what may I serve you
that you don't already possess?

More of the same nothing,
I'll have what he's having...
but on a different platter.

The quality of morsels is equal to
the task before me.
And I give thanks
for bread that sustains,
but need not be chewed.

Chow, Keith~
1/12/07

Dear All, here I have tried to explain the work of forces in an other way, by taking a thread of jasjit purewal (hope jasjit you won't mind)from an other blog and my answer to it.

Quote from jasjit's thread:

Recently someone suffering from crippling physical infirmities asked me why suffering was so rampant and unexplainable.

Having walked a long road of emotional struggles she feels exhausted and wronged by life and destiny. And even as she veers towards faith and ‘God’ she is annoyed that God will neither make her life easier nor explain ‘directly’ to her why she must suffer so. Not an uncommon state of mind! Many, many people struggle with understanding the purpose of suffering.

Well the best answer I could give her was by telling her this story…

A man found a cocoon with a butterfly within it. One day a small opening appeared and he sat and watched the butterfly for several hours as it struggled to force its body through the little hole. Then it seemed to stop making any progress. It appeared to have gotten as far as it could and could go no farther. The man then decided to help the butterfly.

He took a pair of scissors and snipped the remaining bit of the cocoon. The butterfly then emerged easily. Something was strange! The butterfly had a swollen body and shriveled wings. He continued to watch the butterfly expecting that at any moment the wings would enlarge and expand to be able to support the body, which would contract in time. Neither happened.

In fact the butterfly spent the rest of its life crawling round with a swollen body and deformed wings. It was never able to fly.

What the man in his kindness and haste did not understand was that the restricting cocoon and the struggle required for the butterfly to get through the small opening of the cocoon are God’s ways of forcing fluid from the body of the butterfly into its wings so that it would be ready for flight once it released the cocoon. Struggles are exactly what we need in our life.

If God allowed us to go through all our life without obstacles, it would cripple us. We would not be as strong as we could have been.

Not only that, we could never fly.

Unquote.

And quoting my reply:

Absolutely beautiful story jasjit..

And all the restricting cocoons finally reduce themselves to four basic cocoons/forces - cocoons of physicality/senses, of emotions/feelings, of reason/intellect and finally of intellignece/spirituality speaking of homo sapiens - breaking through which at numerous smaller and bigger cycle levels then comprises their whole game of evolution.

Going even a bit beyond, all the four cocoons further reduce themselves to only one cocoon, that of matter restricting energy/spirit from its full freedom. As spirit begins to explode-free itself of matter with Big Bang, the matter first disentegrates into four basic forms/forces and then through them to many...

Sorry for demystifying the things a bit...Freedom indeed is freedom even from mysticism of any sort lol...Indescribable....Freedom from/beyond any, ANY wordable something.

I am glad you demistified things a bit Harb. In this way you gave me with your book and do give me now a more convenient feeling about that experience of oneness i had when i was 34.

Your paragraph:

"Going even a bit beyond, all the four cocoons further reduce themselves to only one cocoon, that of matter restricting energy/spirit from its full freedom. As spirit begins to explode-free itself of matter with Big Bang, the matter first disentegrates into four basic forms/forces and then through them to many..."

rings a specific bell with me:
The above is so typical to the oneness experience i had. It now seems to me that during that dream i really died and came back to life again with a big bang and with the memory of that dream very lucidly there: the moment i awoke from it i "knew" everything there was to know. And then yeah, then those forces took hold of me and many fears with it lol. Before i was able to deal with them all i was already quite a number of years ahead, but in my heart was that basic truth and i knew it would always bring me back on the "right track, and now especially at the weak forces :)

But nowadays the younger generation is so much ahead already. They know that every moment their brain is making new wires. We know that we are able now to use our whole brain. I just now am watching a program on tv called IQ test and in it someone mentioned a few tips that stimulates the brain to make new cells: movement and chewing gum lol. Your memory seems to get better when you chew a lot of gum. Well no wonder i have a good one. Since i stopped smoking 5 years ago, i chewed a lot of gum :).

It is just a fact to me that the more relaxed you can be with yourself the more you are able to use your full brain or "potential".

Love

Happy New Year to you and your family too, dear DK!

Dear Harb and Meike,
I understand Harb is trying to explain the fundamental forces of the universe, its origin, its evolution, etc. using Adwaita as basis. Adwaita is not a faith and has an analytical tone; it does not insist that you have to believe that God created the world in six days because it is said so somewhere called the scriptures. Adwaita is about finding the Reality. So it is tempting to mix Adwaita with science. However, a "scientific" approach to finding reality should not have any inconsistencies. A scientific explanation of a process in the universe or a scientific description of an event should be free from inconsistencies.
For example, here is your paragraph:
"Going even a bit beyond, all the four cocoons further reduce themselves to only one cocoon, that of matter restricting energy/spirit from its full freedom. As spirit begins to explode-free itself of matter with Big Bang, the matter first disentegrates into four basic forms/forces and then through them to many..."
So, you are saying that matter existed before Bigbang and imprisoned the spirit which was set free with Big Bang. But Big Bang is the beginning of the universe. How can matter exist before Big Bang?
What is spirit? Is it consciousness? If so, according to Adwaita, nothing can ever bind consciousness.
Or else what is spirit? It cannot be part of the universe because according to what you said. it existed before Big Bang. If it existed before Big Bang it cannot be bound by matter because matter came into existence with Big Bang.

Just to let you know that I am not asking these questions without trying to understand what you have written, I have some qualifications to ask these questions: I am a PhD in Applied Mathematics and had Quantum Physics in some of my courses; I also have an MS in Computer Scence and Artificial Intelligence is my favorite topic and worked in the Bell System for over 25 years.

Dear Syamala, please excuse me for a while, I will be attending to all your queries soon, more so as I myself am a great admirer of Ramana Maharshi. In fact I remained 'anchored' in him during a few very difficult years of my life. It was his dhyana which helped me cross that period unharmed.

Harb

Dear DK, it is a relief to me to know that you are very much in with the latest developments in physics. I was afraid I may bore you to death.

Yes, mathematics cannot arrive at unified theory, simply because like quantum theory level here too - grandunification theory level to which I would call super quantum potential level, borrowing the words from David Bohm - observer is involved. As Hawking indirectly hints at by saying "What is it that breathes fire into the equations and makes a Universe for them to describe?" I too have mentioned this problem in my book and has solved it by pointing out that here we will have to invoke what we may call the spiritual world, again the Unified world of Love or, as some like to call it, Universal Consciousness. But then, it can only be really known through self-experience of Oneness, like the Indian Advaitic sages did in the past.

But I would not say that it is something independant of matter, to me it too is a property of matter. Here the matter is at its subtlest. However, I can also agree if someone were to say that all is spirit and in that sense gross matter here is only a gross form of that spirit. To me these both are One and only self-experience can satisfiy us as to the realisation of what it really is. It is just as we cannot understand what deep sleep is except by actually sleeping or love except by actual experience of love.

Alternately, I call this "nothing material" a form of "pure energy". Science says that there is a world and there is an anti-world and when they meet they produce electromagnetic energy. I say that the world and anti-world go far deeper than science has discovered and I name them as actual world and virtual world. and I further say that when actual world and virtual world meet they produce to what I call sort of "Pure Energy". But this, as I said above, is not something beyond a form of special energy of ordinary matter/energy. What is, IS, and from one end we can see it as the grossest of matter and from an other the subtlest of spirit but as a whole we cannot say anything about it, only experience it and then are left with no questions.

As to how this One produces the many formed universe from within it, I have this to say: I am of the considered opinion that the universe evolves and devolves in eternal cycles. From within the previous cycle the seed for the origin and evolution of the new universal cycle develops. At Big Bang this seed in germinating splits into the virtual world and actual world - like a plant's roots and actual plant. And in the next seed the actual and virtual worlds again begin to merge into one. I think in the universsal context it happens in some far-off stars and I think what scientists call gravitational collpase of a star these virtual worlds and actual worlds come to meet and produce pure energy or superforce and with that begins the new universe. No wonder science is also veering round to the idea that universe may have its origin in the stars.

I am also of the view that the final answer of the origin and evolution of the universe is in uniting the two theoires called the steady state theory, which says that the universe is always there and superdense theory which says that it begins with big bang and ends in big crunh. I think the universe is always there yet always evolving-devolving in endless gap-less cycles.

Dear Syamala, I hope in the above paragraphs you also find some answers to your questions. Writing an inspired book is one thing - a work rather of intelligence, of intuition, to later discuss it with the help of intellect is quite an other. I often used to say while writing my book: the book seems to be coming to me from 'above', but if tomorrow someone will ask me to explain it I may not be entirely able to do so. Yet, I will continue.

Love, Harb

Dear DK, it is a relief to me to know that you are very much in with the latest developments in physics. I was afraid I may bore you to death.

Yes, mathematics cannot arrive at unified theory, simply because like quantum theory level here too - grandunification theory level to which I would call super quantum potential level, borrowing the words from David Bohm - observer is involved. As Hawking indirectly hints at by saying "What is it that breathes fire into the equations and makes a Universe for them to describe?" I too have mentioned this problem in my book and has solved it by pointing out that here we will have to invoke what we may call the spiritual world, again the Unified world of Love or, as some like to call it, Universal Consciousness. But then, it can only be really known through self-experience of Oneness, like the Indian Advaitic sages did in the past.

But I would not say that it is something independant of matter, to me it too is a property of matter. Here the matter is at its subtlest. However, I can also agree if someone were to say that all is spirit and in that sense gross matter here is only a gross form of that spirit. To me these both are One and only self-experience can satisfiy us as to the realisation of what it really is. It is just as we cannot understand what deep sleep is except by actually sleeping or love except by actual experience of love.

Alternately, I call this "nothing material" a form of "pure energy". Science says that there is a world and there is an anti-world and when they meet they produce electromagnetic energy. I say that the world and anti-world go far deeper than science has discovered and I name them as actual world and virtual world. and I further say that when actual world and virtual world meet they produce to what I call sort of "Pure Energy". But this, as I said above, is not something beyond a form of special energy of ordinary matter/energy. What is, IS, and from one end we can see it as the grossest of matter and from an other the subtlest of spirit but as a whole we cannot say anything about it, only experience it and then are left with no questions.

As to how this One produces the many formed universe from within it, I have this to say: I am of the considered opinion that the universe evolves and devolves in eternal cycles. From within the previous cycle the seed for the origin and evolution of the new universal cycle develops. At Big Bang this seed in germinating splits into the virtual world and actual world - like a plant's roots and actual plant. And in the next seed the actual and virtual worlds again begin to merge into one. I think in the universsal context it happens in some far-off stars and I think what scientists call gravitational collpase of a star these virtual worlds and actual worlds come to meet and produce pure energy or superforce and with that begins the new universe. No wonder science is also veering round to the idea that universe may have its origin in the stars.

I am also of the view that the final answer of the origin and evolution of the universe is in uniting the two theoires called the steady state theory, which says that the universe is always there and superdense theory which says that it begins with big bang and ends in big crunh. I think the universe is always there yet always evolving-devolving in endless gap-less cycles.

Dear Syamala, I hope in the above paragraphs you also find some answers to your questions.

Love, Harb

Harb,
You acknowledeged my questions but did not answer them. Your last paragraph talks about uniting two theories which apparently have different hypotheses but according to you, the final answer has to be yet found.
For a minute, let us look at your final conjecture "I think the universe is always there yet always evolving-devolving in endless gap-less cycles." You should think clearly about what you mean by devolution. What remains after Big Crunch?
Do matter and the four fundamental forces still remain? If so, this alters the definition of Big Bang. It means that matter and the four forces exist before Big Bang. A scientific discussion should have clear definitions of terms and consistent logic. Otherwise, do not call it science.

Dear Keith

When your cornfield burns down to ashes, may you find on that fourth finger a ring braided of your beloved's hair turned to gold by the heat of the fire. That is a brilliant Rumi. Have you been lost in him recently? Is it you, too?

love, Heath

Dear Syamala,

I am no scientist, yet i am able to understand that there might be a steady state of the universe being the fullness/emptyness state, which seems like a void and is always there and the superdense theory which says that the universe begins with big bang and ends with big crunch.

It is very difficult to explain in words. To me it is the awareness of the awareness. That means that matter and the four forces are there in potential and it is consciousness that brings them to life (big bang) and it is consciousness that brings them to an end again (big crunch) resulting in the state of fullness/emptyness again. And then the next cycle in the cycle starts etc. etc.

Can this be translated into scientifical definitions? I do not know, i only understand that science is trying to proof the very above with matter and antimatter and all kinds of formula.

Could it be that both sides are looking for the same only perceiving it in another way?

Always willing to learn :)

Dear DK,

Thank you and Now: Happy New Day :)

May this be the beginning of a fruitful and prosperous dialogue in all freedom of speech :)

Let Love be the guiding principle.

Dear Heath,

I choose not to wear jewelry,
but I look for a shining diamond
where no body would think to find one.
Still I like your idea...maybe someone can
take a hint, a lock and a loom and create a crown?

Coleman Barks may take a few liberties with his
translations, it's ALL interpretation anyway. Right?

How old was Rumi when he wrote this one?
Certainly, he speaks from experience here-

.

For D.K. and all,

"Response to Your Question"

.

Why ask about behavior
when you are soul-essence
and a way of seeing into presence?
Plus you are with us. How could you worry?

You may as well free a few words
from your vocabulary: "why" and "how" and "impossible".
Open the mouth-cage and let those fly away.

We were born by accident,
but still this wandering caravan
will make camp in perfection.

Forget the nonsense categories
of "there" and "here".
"Race" and "nation" and "religion."
"Starting-point" and "destination".

You are soul and you are love,
not a sprite or an angel or a human being.
You are a Godman-womanGod-manGod-Godwoman.

No more questions now
as to what it is we are doing here.

Dear Keith

Coleman Bark's interpretations always make me very envious that I don't know the originals. Thank you for sharing this one.

love, Heath

Thank DK for your reply!

Thank you DK for your answer...

See you, my friend (your french is very good)

Don't tell me your secretary helped you... no, no, no...

You are a gentleman DK!
Happy new field!
Jean

One of my faves of Rumi;

Come, come again, whoever you are, come!
Heathen, fire worshipper or idolatrous, come!
Come even if you broke your penitence a hundred times,
Ours is the portal of hope, come as you are.