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Shermer-Chopra Afterlife Debate

Deepak Chopra - January 03, 2007

Is There Life After Death?
Michael Shermer vs. Deepak Chopra

The following is a double post. First, Michael Shermer of Skeptic magazine and Scientific American reviews Deepak Chopra's 2006 book "Life After Death: The Burden of Proof." Second is Deepak's rebuttal.

For those who would like to read the debate in its entirety, please use the links below:

www.skeptic.com

Hope Springs Eternal:
Science, the Afterlife, and the Meaning of Life

Hope Springs Eternal:
Science, the Afterlife, and the Meaning of Life

By Michael Shermer

I once saw a bumper sticker that read: Militant Agnostic: I Don't Know and You Don't Either. This is my position on the afterlife. If we knew for certain that there is an afterlife, we would not fear death as we do, we would not mourn quite so agonizingly the death of loved ones, and there would be no need to engage in debates on the subject.
In Deepak Chopra's 2006 book, Life After Death: Burden of Proof, he presents six lines of evidence that convince him that the soul is real and eternal: 1. Near-Death Experiences. 2. ESP. 3. Quantum Consciousness. 4. Talking to the Dead. 5. Prayer and Healing Studies. 6. Information Fields and the Universal Life Force. For Deepak, the universe is one giant conscious information field of timeless energy of which all of us are a part. Life is simply a temporary incarnation of this eternal field of consciousness. Let's review these one by one.

Near Death Experiences.
Five centuries ago demons haunted our world, with incubi and succubi tormenting their victims as they lay asleep in their beds. Two centuries ago spirits haunted our world, with ghosts and ghouls harassing their sufferers all hours of the night. Last century aliens haunted our world, with grays and greens abducting captives out of their beds and whisking them away for probing and prodding. Today people are experiencing near-death and out-of-body experiences, floating above their bodies, out of their bedrooms, and even off the planet into space.
What is going on here? Are these elusive creatures and mysterious phenomena in our world or in our minds? New evidence indicates that they are, in fact, a product of the brain. Neuroscientist Michael Persinger, in his laboratory at Laurentian University in Sudbury, Canada, for example, can induce all of these experiences in subjects by subjecting their temporal lobes to patterns of magnetic fields. I tried it and had a mild out-of-body experience.
Similarly, the September 19, 2002 issue of Nature, reported that the Swiss neuroscientist Olaf Blanke and his colleagues discovered that they could bring about out-of-body experiences (OBEs) through electrical stimulation of the right angular gyrus in the temporal lobe of a 43-year old woman suffering from severe epileptic seizures. In initial mild stimulations she reported 'sinking into the bed'or 'falling from a height.' More intense stimulation led her to "see myself lying in bed, from above, but I only see my legs and lower trunk." Another stimulation induced "an instantaneous feeling of 'lightness' and 'floating' about two meters above the bed, close to the ceiling."
In a related study reported in the 2001 book Why God Won't Go Away, researchers Andrew Newberg and Eugene D. Aquili found that when Buddhist monks meditate and Franciscan nuns pray their brain scans indicate strikingly low activity in the posterior superior parietal lobe, a region of the brain the authors have dubbed the Orientation Association Area (OAA), whose job it is to orient the body in physical space (people with damage to this area have a difficult time negotiating their way around a house). When the OAA is booted up and running smoothly there is a sharp distinction between self and non-self. When OAA is in sleep mode ,as in deep meditation and prayer, that division breaks down, leading to a blurring of the lines between reality and fantasy, between feeling in body and out of body. Perhaps this is what happens to monks who experience a sense of oneness with the universe, or with nuns who feel the presence of God, or with alien abductees floating out of their beds up to the mother ship.
Sometimes trauma can trigger such experiences. The December 2001 issue of Lancet published a Dutch study in which of 344 cardiac patients resuscitated from clinical death, 12 percent reported near-death experiences (NDEs), where they floated above their bodies and saw a light at the end of a tunnel. Some even described speaking to dead relatives.
These studies show that mind and spirit are not separate from brain and body, and that all experience is mediated by the brain. Since our normal experience is of stimuli coming into the brain from the outside, when a part of the brain abnormally generates these illusions, another part of the brain interprets them as external events. Hence, the abnormal is thought to be the paranormal. In reality, it is just brain chemistry.

ESP.
For the past century ESP research has suffered from two fatal flaws: replicable data and a viable theory. There are not many significant findings of ESP under controlled conditions, but when there are other scientists always fail to replicate them. In science, if we cannot replicate a finding, skepticism is the appropriate response. A still deeper reason that scientists are skeptical of ESP is that there is no explanatory theory for how it works. Until ESP proponents can explain how thoughts generated by neurons in the sender's brain can pass through the skull and into the brain of the receiver, skepticism is the appropriate response.

Quantum Consciousness.
Deepak Chopra and others will counter that there is, in fact, a perfectly cogent theory of ESP, and that is quantum consciousness, which was recently featured in the wildly popular and improbably-named film, What the #@*! Do We Know?! University of Oregon quantum physicist Amit Goswami, for example, says: "The material world around us is nothing but possible movements of consciousness. I am choosing moment by moment my experience. Heisenberg said atoms are not things, only tendencies." Okay, Amit, I challenge you to leap out of a 20-story building and consciously choose the experience of passing safely through the ground's tendencies.
According to the physicist Roger Penrose and physician Stuart Hameroff, inside our neurons are tiny hollow microtubules that act like structural scaffolding. The conjecture is that something inside the microtubules may initiate a wave function collapse that leads to the quantum coherence of atoms, causing neurotransmitters to be released into the synapses between neurons and thus triggering them to fire in a uniform pattern, thereby creating thought and consciousness. Since a wave function collapse can only come about when an atom is "observed"(i.e., affected in any way by something else), neuroscientist Sir John Eccles, another proponent of the idea, even suggests that "mind" may be the observer in a recursive loop from atoms to molecules to neurons to thought to consciousness to mind to atoms.
In reality, the gap between sub-atomic quantum effects and large-scale macro systems is too large to bridge. In his book The Unconscious Quantum, the University of Colorado particle physicist Victor Stenger demonstrates that for a system to be described quantum mechanically the system's typical mass m, speed v, and distance d must be on the order of Planck's constant h. "If mvd is much greater than h, then the system probably can be treated classically." Stenger computes that the mass of neural transmitter molecules, and their speed across the distance of the synapse, are about three orders of magnitude too large for quantum effects to be influential. There is no micro-macro connection.
Subatomic particles may be altered when they are observed, but the moon is there even if no one looks at it.

Talking to the Dead.
Deepak recounts his experience of participating in a university study of three psychics who claimed that they could communicate with those who had already "passed over" to the other side. Even though none of the psychics were told that Deepak was present, two of them identified him by name, two of them told him that he wanted to contact his recently deceased father, and one knew his childhood nickname in Hindi. He declared it a genuine experience, even while admitting that he had his doubts, especially since "My father knew things I knew, but nothing more."
That is more skepticism than most people muster, especially in emotion-laden readings that promise people a connection to a lost loved one. How do psychics appear to talk to the dead? In short, it's a trick called Cold Reading, where you literally read someone 'cold,' knowing nothing about them. You ask lots of questions and make numerous statements and see what sticks. Most statements are wrong, but you only need a few hits to convince people. In an expose I did on psychic medium John Edward for WABC New York, for example, we counted about one statement per second in the opening minute, as he riffled through names, dates, colors, diseases, conditions, situations, relatives, keepsakes, and the like. His hit rate was below 10 percent, but those handful of hits were all his subjects needed to feel that they had made contact with a loved one.
I played a psychic for a day for a television special and found it remarkably easy to convince my subjects that I was really talking to the dead. Of course, anyone can talk to the dead. The hard part is getting the dead to talk back. Psychic mediums use trickery to give the illusion that the dead are communicating with us.

Prayer and Healing Studies.
In April, 2006, The American Heart Journal published the most comprehensive study ever conducted on the effects of intercessory prayer on the health and recovery of patients. Directed by Harvard University Medical School cardiologist Herbert Benson, a long-time proponent of the salubrious effects of prayer, the findings were eagerly awaited by members of both communities. There were a total of 1,802 patients from six U.S. hospitals that were randomly assigned to 1 of 3 groups: 604 received intercessory prayer and were told that they may or may not receive prayer; 597 did not receive intercessory prayer and were also told that they may or may not receive prayer; and 601 received intercessory prayer and were told they would receive prayer. Prayers began the night before the surgery and continued daily for two weeks after. The prayers were allowed to pray in the manner of their choice, but they were instructed to ask "for a successful surgery with a quick, healthy recovery and no complications."
The results were unequivocal: there were no statistically significant differences between any of the groups. Prayer did not work. Case closed.

Information Fields and the Universal Life Force.
Have you ever noticed how much easier it is to do a newspaper crossword puzzle later in the day? Me neither. But according to Rupert Sheldrake it is because the collective wisdom of the morning successes resonates throughout the cultural morphic field. In Sheldrake's theory of 'morphic resonance,' similar forms (morphs, or fields of informationreverberate and exchange information within a universal life force. Morphic resonance, says Sheldrake, is the idea of mysterious telepathy-type interconnections between organisms and of collective memories within species, and explains phantom limbs, homing pigeons, how dogs know when their owners are coming home, and such psychic phenomena as how people know when someone is staring at them. Thousands of trials conducted by anyone who downloaded the experimental protocol from Sheldrake's Web page have given positive, repeatable, and highly significant results, implying that there is indeed a widespread sensitivity to being stared at from behind."
Let's examine this claim more closely. First, science is not normally conducted by strangers who happen upon a Web page protocol, so we have no way of knowing if these amateurs controlled for intervening variables and experimenter biases. Second, psychologists dismiss anecdotal accounts of this sense to a reverse self-fulfilling effect: a person suspects being stared at and turns to check; such head movement catches the eyes of would-be starers, who then turn to look at the staree, who thereby confirms the feeling of being stared at. Third, there is an experimenter bias problem. Institute of Noetic Sciences' researcher Marilyn Schlitz (a believer in ESP) collaborated with University of Hertfordshire psychologist Richard Wiseman (a skeptic of ESP) in replicating Sheldrake's research, and discovered that when they did the staring Schlitz found statistically significant results, whereas Wiseman found chance results.
Sheldrake responds that skeptics dampen the morphic field's subtle power, whereas believers enhance it. Maybe, but as it is said, the invisible and the nonexistent look the same.

So where does this leave us? I am, by temperament, a sanguine person, so I really hate to douse the flame of that doubtful future date with the cold water of skepticism in this present state. But I care what is actually true even more than what I hope is true, and these are the facts as I understand them to be. Shall we then abandon all hope of a paradisiacal state? No. Paradise is here. It is now. It is within us and without us. It is in our thoughts and in our actions. It is in our lives and in our loves. It is in our families and in our friends. It is in our communities and in our world. It is in the courage of our convictions and in the character of our souls.
Hope springs eternal, even if life is not.


Below is my immediate response to Michael Shermer's review of my book, Life After Death: The Burden of Proof.


Taking the Afterlife Seriously
By Deepak Chopra

"The most beautiful and profound emotion we can experience is the sensation of the mystical. It is the power of all true science."
-Albert Einstein

I.
Thanks for Coming--Or Did You Even Show Up?
I have put Michael Shermer at a disadvantage by writing a book that bases the afterlife on the survival of consciousness. He has little interest in consciousness compared to his interest in laboratory-induced hallucinations and altered states. It's a shame that he doesn't grasp that the afterlife is about nothing but consciousness. (I don't offhand know anyone who took their bodies with them.) Shermer's focus on God is irrelevant to the argument. I give seven versions of life after death in my book, collected from every religious and philosophical tradition. He fails to address them or to realize that certain traditions (Platonism, Buddhism , Taoism, Vedanta) do not posit a personal God.
Shermer's retelling of the flaws in prayer studies is germane to my argument but only to a small degree-it by no means forms a sixth of my book, more like three pages. I must point out, however, that the 2006 Benson-Harvard refutation of prayer is far from being authoritative. Critics have found methodological flaws in it, and there are 19 other studies in the field that arrive at differing results, 11 of them showing that "prayer works."
Now to the holes in Shermer's own approach. It may be curious that stimulating some area of the brain can induce out-of-body experiences or the feeling of sinking into a bed, or that Buddhist monks have low activity in their
Orientation Association Area (OAA), as cited by Shermer. Unfortunately, these experiments have little bearing on the afterlife. Induced states are quite feeble as science. I can put a tourniquet on a person's arm, depriving the nerves of blood flow, and thereby eliminate the sensation of touch. This doesn't prove that quadriplegics with paralyzed limbs aren't having a real experience. I can induce happiness by giving someone a glass of wine and having a pretty girl flirt with him. That doesn't prove that happiness without alcohol isn't real. The point is that a simulation isn't the real thing or a credible stand-in for it.
Shermer doesn't adhere to the scientific impartiality he so vocally espouses. Loading the dice turns out to be fairly standard for him. For example, he cites the December 2001 issue of Lancet that published a Dutch study in which, out of 344 cardiac patients resuscitated from clinical death, 12 percent reported near-death experiences . (The actual figure was 18%, by the way..) Immediately he skips on to say that near-death experiences can be induced in the laboratory. Hold on a minute. Did Shemer miss the point entirely? The patients in the Dutch study, who suffered massive heart attacks in the hospital, had their near-death experiences when there was no measurable activity in the brain, when they were in fact brain dead. Did he quote the astonishment of Dr. Pin van Lommel, the Dutch cardiologist who observed this effect? No. Did he go into the baffling issue of why the vast majority of resuscitated patients (over 80%) don't report near-death experiences? That's pretty important if you are claiming that all this near-death hokum can be induced in the lab with a few electrodes.
Leaving out the heart of the matter, as Shermer does, smacks of unfairness, for I rely on this same Dutch study and give all the particulars. Skepticism is only credible when it's not being devious. But Shermer often deliberately misses the point. I cite a University of Virginia study that to date has found over 2,000 children who vividly remember their past lives. In many cases they can name places and dates. The facts they relate have been verified in many cases. Even more astonishing, over 200 of these children exhibit birthmarks that resemble the way they remember dying in their most recent lifetime. (One boy, for example, recalled being killed with a shotgun, and his chest exhibited a scatter-shot of red birthmarks). Unable to refute this phenomenon or imagine a counter-study, Shermer fails to mention it. He snipes at the easy targets to bolster his blanket skepticism. I wish Shermer realized that true skepticism suspends both belief and disbelief. Being a debunker of curiosity is something science doesn't need.
This points to a broader problem with his arguments: the problem of dueling results. Let's say a skeptic offers in evidence a study that asks five children to describe a previous incarnation, and let's say that only those who are coached, either by parents or researchers, come up with such stories. Has skepticism refuted the original research? Of course it hasn't. The first study stands on its own, by sheer force of numbers, demanding explanation. But by Shermer's logic if some children don't remember a past lifetime, those who do must be categorically dismissed. By analogy, if I study twenty mothers who smile when shown their baby's picture, anyone can find twenty others (suffering from post-partum depression, for example) who don't. But that doesn't prove that mothers don't love their babies. The second experiment is an anomaly.
No doubt Shermer will want to lecture me on the need for replication in science. Yet this is the very thing he conveniently ignores. Studies on near-death experiences, out-of-body experiences, memories of past lifetimes, remote viewing, and so forth--all crucial to the reality of life after death--have been well replicated. Shermer finds one study that induces similar states ("similar" being a very tricky word here) and he walks away satisfied. He already knows a priori that "paranormal" findings must be false, so why bother to engage them seriously? Extending our understanding of normal doesn't interest him.
The focus of science should be on the survival of consciousness after death, not on the side show of fraud, pseudo-science, religious dogma, and the other straw men Shermer knocks down. For example, I rely a great deal on the possibility that mind extends outside the body. This is obviously crucial, since with the death of the brain, our minds can only survive if they don't depend on the brain.
There are astonishing results in this area. One of the most famous, performed at the engineering department at Princeton and validated many times over, asked ordinary people to sit in the room with a random number generator. As the machine printed out a random series of 0s and 1s, the subjects were instructed to try to make it produce more zeroes. They didn't touch the machine but only willed it to deviate from randomness. Did they succeed? Absolutely. Did other identical or similar experiments succeed? Over and over. Does Shermer even touch on this matter, so crucial to my argument? No.
He displays an amazing ability to avoid the important stuff. He writes, for example, "The ultimate fallacy of all such prayer and healing research is theological: If God is omniscient and omnipotent, He should not need to be reminded or inveigled that someone needs healing." This is simplistic theology at best Second-guessing an omniscient and omnipresent God is a tautology by definition, since such a God, being everywhere and performing all acts, makes no choices at all. Such a consciousness encompasses good and bad, disease and health, equally. (As much as possible I avoid using a personal pronoun for God, but it's awkward since "It" doesn't work in English. I am referring to a God that is closer to a universal field than anything else we can imagine.) Does an omnipotent God even need a creation to begin with? The question is logically unanswerable. Fortunately, Shermer's Sunday School God, a patriarch with a white beard sitting above the clouds, plays no role in my argument--or in the traditions of Buddhism, Vedanta, etc. mentioned at the outset. Did my book defend the Judeo-Christian God? Did it argue for a physical place called heaven (or hell)? Did I praise the joys of the hereafter in order to denigrate life here on earth? Not for a moment. I specifically rooted the afterlife in ordinary states of consciousness that no one doubts, such as dream, imagination, projection, myth, metaphor, meditation, and other aspects of awareness that give us clues about the workings of the mind overall.. Shermer doesn't engage those connections, either.
Since he often lumps me in with other authors whom he disdains and treats cavalierly, I can only assume that he uses the same slipshod reasoning on them, too. I certainly know for a fact that Shermer misrepresents and distorts the groundbreaking work of Rupert Sheldrake, a biologist who graduated with first-class honors from Cambridge and whose curriculum vitae (not to mention acumen, curiosity, and intelligence) a gaggle of skeptics can only envy.
But let's concede that Shermer knows he's preaching to the choir and can afford all this rhetorical by-your-leave. His review hasn't actually offered anything beyond a self-indulgent expansion on his first sentence, borrowed from a bumper sticker: I DON'T KNOW AND YOU DON'T EITHER. He takes this to be humorous; in fact it is distressingly dogmatic. Is he so proud of his skepticism that literally he can tell what someone else doesn't know? Without dragging him into philosophical deep waters, I must point out that dismissing opposing views even before they are stated seems like fairly spooky solipsism..
In the end, debating tactics offer entertainment value but are a dubious way to get at truth. Ralph Waldo Emerson wrote that the true test of any scientific or philosophical system is how much it can explain. I believe that Shermer sincerely agrees with this, despite his often unfair tactics and his condescension to spirituality in general. The old-fashioned materialism that underlies his opinions stands in stark contrast to quantum physics, which long ago opened up an unseen world where linear cause-and-effect no longer operates, where intuition has made more breakthroughs than logic. Virtual reality, populated with virtual photons and subatomic interactions that operate beyond the speed of light--a realm where events are instantaneously coordinated across billions of light years--is the foundation of our physical world. Pace Shermer, the possibility of intelligence and consciousness in the universe is completely viable; we must arrive at new theories to account for life after death (among many other mysteries) by opening ourselves to the origins of our own consciousness. It's all very well to watch various parts of the brain light up on an MRI, but to claim that this is true knowledge of the mind is like putting a stethoscope to the roof of the Astrodome and claiming that you understand the rules of football.
If Shermer wants to have a serious debate about the persistence of consciousness after physical death, I eagerly invite it. But I must in all candor ask him to look at consciousness first. He hasn't made the slightest effort so far, and yet that was the entire subject of my book.

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Posted by Deepak Chopra at January 3, 2007 07:46 PM

Comments

I'm sorry I didn't have a chance to answer your question about what happens to the soul after death. However, here's a book that proved very useful to me:

The Soul After Death: Contemporary "After-Death" Experiences in the Light of the Orthodox Teaching on the Afterlife (Paperback), by Father Seraphim Rose.

Nice discussion Dr. Chopra.

Peace

I once thought I had a soul

but I know better now.

I have seen within myself;
& tis not pretty.

I talked to a women today,
and she said ‘why don’t you become a janitor’;
I said will I get paid 500 to a thousand dollars
and hour.

Shoulda seen the look on her face . . .

She said something about existentialism and Sartre.

I laughed; first sober laugh I have had in awhile.

She then said something about ‘Christ’s kitchen,’
a soup-house downtown.
I laughed again,
this time real hard.

I thought I was in a gas chamber for a minute,
but Frankl said something about making my own
meaning.
Meaning; making my own meaning!

I says ‘ya, I figure either the lotto or prison is my
retirement ‘plan.’”
Then I hear something about strapping up the bootlaces,
and how here in America, ‘everybody can be ‘the man’.’

Just my moral misgivings I suppose . . .

I readily admit, mayhap I did give up on ‘the fight,’

Maybe some lithium can help me to see the light.

I say legalize marijuana and leave me alone.

Right . . .

Aye, Twilight reigns in my game,
and the world I left naught a better lot.
‘There are no levels in hell,’ she says,
you either go, or upon the wings of a cherubim you fly.

Or mayhap Elijah comes down and upon his chariot,
gives you a ride.
Or being as disinterested as Buddha shall give you peace;
until a loved one dies.

I once saw heaven in Linda’s eyes
I shant see heaven again.
. . . .
until Eternity claims her prize.

Peace

Perhaps, Deepak, the book should have been named: Life AND Death--A Conscious Perspective. That would have made death appear (as it truly is) a part of consciousness rather than the end of it.

Deepak, I realized after I posted the above comment that perhaps the title 'Life After Death: The Burden of Proof' is immensely more saleable a title compared to the more staid 'Life AND Death--A Conscious Perspective' that I thought was a better way to convey to readers upfront that life and death are both in the mind.

While the former suggests the book may contain ideas about OBEs and astral life and appeal more to senior citizens, the latter gives the impression that the content is more academic and didactic and doesn't appear focussed toward any particular segment.

I must admit I haven't read the book yet and am basing my comments solely on your discussion of the same on this site. I may be completely wrong and the title 'Life After Death: The Burden of Proof' is most appropriate based on the content of the book, but here were my 2 cents.

Hey,has anybody reads,
Victor J. Zammit's book?
A Lawyer Presents the Case for the Afterlife

http://www.victorzammit.com/

I'm gonna put it om my, to read list, just after,
that feng shui/vastu, book,

ltz,
Love, passion,

Dear Dr. Chopra,

You have given Mr. Shermer a very well constructed rebuttal, with amusing yet logical analogies. Thanks a lot.

Craig,

You are a very fine poet Brother.
Please don't forget my friend, that heaven is waiting for you in millions of other pairs of eyes.

Kind Regards,
Stan


Heaven is also in a million other eyes, and you are a very fine poet.

Great discussion Deepak! Kristin has finally finished reading my copy of your book...I'm very much looking forward to reading it today.

Love,
Scott.

Answers to Shermer-Chopra Afterlife Debate

Avtar Singh, Sc. D.
avsingh@alum.mit.edu

The central issue in the debate is whether, as Deepak states, “the universe is one giant conscious information field of timeless energy of which all of us are a part and life is simply a temporary incarnation of this eternal field of consciousness.”

The debate gets sidetracked and entangled in peripheral and scientifically unsubstantial issues such as - 1. Near-Death Experiences. 2. ESP. 3. Quantum Consciousness. 4. Talking to the Dead. 5. Prayer and Healing Studies etc. In fact the key phenomenon of universal consciousness is fundamental and far above the life and death phenomena, which are mostly mistaken or misunderstood in the limited biological context alone by the modern science. Whether life comes after death or vice versa is only secondary to the bigger question of the existence of eternal and universal consciousness.

These issues of consciousness are addressed in my paper entitled – “A New Approach to the Problems of Consciousness & Mind” recently submitted to the upcoming conference - Toward a Science of Consciousness 2007, Budapest, Hungary, July 23-26, 2007. The abstract of the paper is as follows:

ABSTRACT

“Consciousness issues within the context of modern neuroscience and related problems in contemporary physics are addressed. Current theories of consciousness look towards information theory, information integration theory, complexity theory, neural Darwinism, reentrant neural networks, quantum holism etc. to provide some hints. These theories fall short of the rigors and quantitative measures that are normally required of a scientific theory. The most perplexing philosophical conundrums of the "hard problem" and "qualia" that afflict modern neuroscience can be resolved by a deeper understanding of the physics of the very small (below Planck scale) and very large (at the boundaries of the universe) scales. The modern philosophy of mind proposes that consciousness is a higher-order mental state that monitors the first or base state possibly generated by the brain. This paper builds upon the early approaches to consciousness wherein it was proposed that the state of self-consciousness is not a separate, higher-order consciousness of a conscious experience, but represents a continuum of the lower order states generated by the brain experience. In such a larger context, many of the mysteries of physics and neuroscience can be explained with an integrated model. This paper proposes such an integrated model that provides a direct relationship between the physics concepts of space, time, mass, and energy, and the consciousness concepts of spontaneity and awareness. The observed spontaneity in natural phenomena, which include human mind, is modeled as the higher order or universal consciousness. The integrated model explains the recent observations of the universe and demonstrates that the higher order consciousness is a universal rather than a biologically induced phenomenon. The neurobiological mind is shown to represent a subset of the complimentary states of the prevailing higher order universal consciousness in the form of the continuum of space-time-mass-energy. The proposed approach integrates spontaneity or consciousness into the existing and widely-accepted theories of science to provide a cohesive model of the universe as one wholesome continuum. The model represents the essential reality of different levels and dimensions of experience, both implicit and explicit, consciousness and matter, to be seen as equivalent and complimentary states of the same mass-energy known as the zero-point energy. The universal consciousness is shown to represent the spontaneous kinetic energy of the extreme kind, which is the ultimate complimentary state wherein everything in the universe is experienced as the zero-point energy field in a fully dilated space and time continuum.”

Keeping aside the peripheral ambiguous issues – soul, NDE, ESP, prayer effects, talking to dead etc, the paper supports the basic premise of an eternal and omnipresent consciousness in the universe that animates the neurobiological mind. The integrated model described in the paper explains the inner workings of quantum mechanics and its well-known paradoxes related to quantum measurement problem or the collapse of the wave function, quantum uncertainty, parallel universes, and quantum gravity etc. It also resolves various issues in cosmology such as dark energy, dark matter, non-locality, the horizon problem, the black hole singularity problem, the cosmological constant problem, and anisotropy of the residual microwave background in the universe. The predictions of the model show good comparison against the recent supernova data showing accelerated expansion of the universe.

The proposed model demonstrates that a common set of universal laws govern the behavior of the matter, mind and consciousness. Consciousness or the spontaneity or free will in nature is shown to be a physical phenomenon and not an epiphenomenon. Its existence is a physical reality and not a metaphysical myth that can be excluded from a rigorous scientific theory. Further, limiting consciousness phenomena to the neurobiological states of the brain alone is no more than a blind man’s touch of the elephant.

I would be glad to provide a copy of the paper to those who are interested in further details. Please send an e-mail request to avsingh@alum.mit.edu.

I think Chopra's mind extends so far outside of his body that he's lost it.

For those of us on the leading edge of thought it is very satisfying.

A basic understanding of the non-physical dimension is essential to a satisfying physical life experience. Without it you will have many unanswered questions. With it you will never again wonder why another does what he does or why you do what you do.

There are few I can share the outrageous joy I receive when I connect to my non-physical my inner being.

Through my darkest hours you (Deepak) guided me just as Good King Wenceslas guided those who were lost in the snow.

In his master's steps he trod
Where the snow lay dinted;

Heat was in the very sod
Which the king had printed

Okay, here’s my story of physical death ….

When I was about 5 years old, I went to an old barn to say my good-byes on move day. I loved that place in the country, as it was magical to me. As I was leaving the barn, several yellow jackets (or bees) bit me right between the eyes. When my parents found me screaming, they ushered me to the car. Our trailer was already loaded and we were ready to go. I begged my father to take me to the hospital and he refused. I then asked my mother to intercede, for which she was unsuccessful.

For two days I laid in the back seat of the car with my sisters, as my eyes were swollen shut. I don’t think I did much of anything but sleep. On the third day, I heard a tunnel noise and then I was looking at myself from above. I don’t recall even seeing a spirit body of light, as one might use for astral travel - I presume. I am assuming that I died, but of course there is no hard proof or evidence.

My experience was exactly the way Deepak explains it – just consciousness. I was now watching a movie, as everything appeared to be moving but me. There were no lights or anything beyond my current environment of riding in the car, as I did look around. I do remember looking at my family one last time. I knew at that moment that I was free and I had a choice to return to my body or move on. I briefly made a decision to go back to my body, as I was already attached to it. I know it’s sounds funny, but I thought, “What a cute little girl.” - not much of a reason for staying, I am sure.

From what I understand in Deepak’s book “Life After Death ..” is that there is more to consciousness, such as pure complete and whole consciousness, but obviously I did not make it past the first point of death. Anyway, I still have another 1/3 to go before I finish the book, so I can only comment up to that point.

I have one OBE that I might share later, which is different than NDE from my experience.

Love, Char

Deepak said:
I can induce happiness by giving someone a glass of wine and having a pretty girl flirt with him.

Wow I like the idea of inducing happiness. This would definelty work on Marek the passion guy.

However, I am thinking a glass of Dom Perignon and conjure up Merlin or Alladin for me:)

Dear Deepak,

Most excellent response, it would be interesting to see a response from Shermer to each item you put forth in detail.

Illusions collapse when one drills to the detail, for they have no foundation.

In resistance we see ego in it's struggle to maintain it's fictitious world.

A chain link fence is not a barrier to the wind.

What we need is another Clarence Darrow and another famous "Monkey Trial." Like trial but this time the opposite.

What do you think Marek?

Can we get a court to rule on whether the physical body or the consciousness that animates it owns the assets?

Then let’s write a will that leaves our assets to One’s self upon return in a different body. Then have a court validate it. In order to claim your estate there would be a test much like the Buddhists use.


Should make for an interesting ……

You could get world famous! Which translates into the ability to create "world awareness" a good thing.

I'll do the real time Documentary...

If they dare to rule that the body owns assets then we will take them to task and prove that crimes are committed by criminal chemical reactions. We could then (seriously) prove sugar triggers criminal chemical reactions, and unless sugar is banned the government is condoning chemical criminal activity.

We might also be able to prove Marijuana and magic mushrooms inhibit criminal chemical activity and get them legalized in the war against criminal chemical activity.....

"Okay, Amit, I challenge you to leap out of a 20-story building and consciously choose the experience of passing safely through the ground's tendencies." ~Sherman

There is a flaw in this challenge.

1. Sherman could only testify to what his experience was, and what he observed, not what Amit experienced and observed.

2. If one were to eliminate the ground's tendencies that resulted in the abrupt stop, they would also eliminate the building and gravity, so that the act could not be performed.

3. When one does eliminate the grounds tendency to cause the abrupt stop, this is called a dream state and is not considered "real" since it has been proven that this state only allows for one observer because there is no latency. Which is simply the nature of that type of state. The properties that would allow Sherman to observe do not exist in that state.

Does that make any sense?

I still don't understand latency or continuity. But I do know that latency is why light has a speed.


Sorry guys(& gals), this post is not worth my time. Some tried...others tired, but you seem to enjoy your perpetual showers of blissful delusion in your psuedo-spiritual obsession.

Ps; This is worth only a copy-paste from my previous comment in another thread. Enjoy!

"(I don't offhand know anyone who took their bodies with them.)" ~ Deepak Chopra

Okay, the above statement has been on my mind since yesterday, so I feel the need to comment.

In the Bible, it says that Enos was taken up by God, but does not explain his transformation; and Elijah went up as his body turned to fire; and Jesus' body was not found and in fact, he came back from the dead using his body and went up into the sky with his body to join God. So it appears that Jesus did take his body, but I think it must have gotten transformed once he united with God or Pure Consciousness, since I think it was only meant as a sign for those physical beings on earth to represent that we are eternal and will never die. I think we have come a long way since then and I think many people know that we are more than our body. And one of my roommates told me that he knew of someone that was taken by God, but then quickly said, "Sorry, I know that we are not suppose to talk about this." Oh well. Anyway, that's my 2 cents on this subject. Hey, I wonder if that is were some of the missing people are??? ... just thinking out loud.

Love, Char

The debate that never was!

It turns out the long touted debate was Shermer’s review of Deepak’s “Life After Death”. And what a good one it is too.

A sincere religious person really believes in his belief and faith. A serious scientist thinks he knows what is true and what is false.

Dr. Chopra probably knows he is taking advantage of the gullible (American) masses. He also knows he will get his rear end kicked in a discussion with any serious scientist. But just to be mentioned in the same sentence with a Shermer or a Dawkins will tell the gullible masses that this guy, Chopra, seems to know what he is talking about.

Shermer never did debate with you Deepak, he wrote a review of your book. But you will now tell the world you debated with Shermer.

Are you still wondering why Richard Dawkins, the world’s foremost evolutionary biologist and the guy you labelled a bigot, won’t debate with you?

Michael Shermer is Editor and Chief of Skeptic Magazine and of course he doesn’t mind telling Deepak what he thinks of him and his bizarre assertions. And of course Chopra will seek any opportunity to be mentioned with a Shermer, in the end they both will benefit and sell more books and magazines!

Sounds like a conscious, self-serving quantum loop of $!

Dear Skeptisch,

And in this way you arrive at an and/and situation instead of an and/or. I am going to continue to look a both sides of the medal and try to find for myself a suitable merging :)

I follow my intuitive science in making my virtual 3D world and i use the outside science (programming) to get it all into motion...

With appreciation, acceptance, and non-resistance i am convinced for myself i will arrive at the theory of everything in the end.

I have experienced the big bang as a scientifical reality inside, science outside still has to prove the truth of it but will get there eventually :)

Life after death.

It is amazing what a brick wall death remains.

Wouldn't it really throw the skeptic for a loop to realize their consciousness is actually in this 'heaven' of the afterlife right now!

The fading in-and-out of consciousness between this human state, and into the other dimension in the deepest phases of sleep, would be too much for him to imagine. He's a Christian, after all. Believing that reality is just humans and inert matter. Perhaps we should ask him why he rejects Deepak, but accepts the Christian worldview that reality is only humans and inert matter (God being optional).

Sitting ducks...

Dear Mr. Skeptisch,
Have you ever paused to consider why you so (frequently) post on this blog? Being that it is a site containing opinions that conflict so greatly with your own. Perhaps there is something (spiritual) deep inside you begging to be brought out to the surface! Think about it. You practically live on this blog! Wouldn't you be more comfortable exchanging ideas with people of common interest. I can understand somebody like you posting once or twice to make a point but you have posted many, many times here. Take a look at yourself clearly in the mirror occasionally! You might be surprised by what you see!

hey L7...

anyone is allowed to post as many times as they want which includes u? whats ur beef..crank? (:).....

I think evangelism takes on many forms beside traditional religion, right Skep?

Regards,

Steve

At-one-ment!

The Sanctuary is us!

Me gots to clean me body, mind, and soul to prepare for Shekhinah a proper place to dwell.

By wisdom a house is built, and through understanding it is established; through knowledge its rooms are filled with rare and beautiful treasures (Proverbs 24:3-4).

Ahh . . ., the seven paths to spiritual freedom!

Peace

Well said brother Empyrius, remember God creates everything anew each day!

Shalom and Shavuot Tov to you,

Steve


QUANTUM, QUANTUM
Questions

"By wisdom a house is built,
by understanding, established,
by knowledge, its rooms are
filled with rare and
beautiful things."

But what wisdom?
The 7 ways to the spiritual freedom?
What understanding?
The secrets of Kabbalah?

And what knowledge?
How to make money
writing quantum things -
quantum health
quantum wealth
quantum consciousness
quantum aging
quantum raging
quantum mind
quantum soul
and finally
quantum afterlife
after quantum death?

The text in the parenthesis is
from Proverbs 24:3-4.

K Amba you have to give me the definition of 'Shavuot Tov' b/c me couldn't find it . . .

Aye Ravi I hear you, it looks like I have struck out on all 7 accounts!

And those not found in the Book are cut off totally in the World to Come.

. . .

Peace

the electrical physics of what survives death
is fairly well documented..
www.soulinvitation.com/death

based on the physics of dna compressing charge
www.soulinvitation.com/dnamanifesto

Chopra studied my model
( www.soulinvitation.com/fractalfield
for a whole day, when he invited me to teach him and david simon..
there is lajolla couple years back..

dan winter
goldenmean.info

I think he got afraid our solution (self empowerment physics
and biofeedback
www.soulinvitation.com/clinicalintro

might upstage him...

he declined to underwrite the technology when there was no money it for him...

Hey Craig,

I thought you would have found the meaning, it's said at the end of the Sabbath during the Havdalah ceremony. It means have a good week, a week of peace.

Amba

K, got it, thanks Amba!

Peace

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