Awesome Syamala!
Great contribution!
Todd

Friends, you can integrate "Anything" and "Everything" with your infinite functional variables of spirituality. To hell with Objectivism, reason or rationality.(You can also Differentiate "Nothing" with your fancy tools, how about that?!)

Let the Socratic Comedy continue...

Syamala,

Thanks for your contribution!

Am I right in thinking that the contents of the
blue triangle are also contained in the gold?
Can I assume the bronze encompasses all 4 sides?
Don't we have to see the heart as actually transparent and limitless?
With no firm boundaries?

I'm having trouble imagining space to be full.
I seem to be stuck between a diamond and a hard place.
Life seems to demand flexibility and the option of bouncing back.
But we have to have a surface that resists our movement.

Whatever has individual existence in form requires a medium
in which to live and have it's "being".
So I'm still here with two sides of a round circle.
There is an inside and an outside always, even if
there is no sense of direction.

Is space a packed house stacked one on top of the other?
If so, why would there be a need for a golden thread
connecting every single thing?
A thread can be seen as a wave and everything moves
as if in an ocean, a great ball of water,
as opposed to great balls of fire!

Then I imagine a ball of water with a perfectly smooth surface.
I see the pyramids or triangles on the outside
performing the function of waves.
If I now color it yellow, I realize that that is how
a child draws a picture of our sun, the fireball.

Could there be a central sun of ineffable, divine consciousness?
You know...in the middle of everything, the zero coordinate?
Could it bang out, yet remain somehow in the same space?
Is it possible that all 4 forces came about in the same initial instant?
An instant that has no beginning and no end
is certainly confusing
but so is a wheel within a wheel that has no room to spin.

These are just some questions I have this morning.
What am I hanging over, anyway?
It should be called a hang after or a hang out
because that is all I really have to do.

Peace all, Keith~

Todd, Thanks.
Thangaraj
What can I say, when it comes to consciousness, it turns out that it is reality but most probably cannot be, or at least not yet explained by logical reasoning. Speaking for myself, I am not trying to unify or integrate it with science or anything else; it is already integrated and unified with every aspect of our life and existence and that is all I tried to say. If my write up sounds irrational and unreasonable, I guess I was not able to express clearly. However, it is a fact that today's computer technolgy and brain science make use of the brain and the computer as models of each other in their explorations.

Keith,
Here are the nested triangles: The biggest one is nature, colored bronze. In it, the pale yellow triangle, which is not strikingly visible, that is supposed to represent a typical human being (or a even a living being). In this triangle is the Mind triangle which is blue. It contains the Logic triangle which contains the Thought function and Memory. The Logic triangle also contains Desire. Desire is one characteristic that distinguishes living beings from lifeless matter. For example, a living being has desire, which is the initiator of all action in a human being, but a computer does not. When I say this, the immediate response I get is that a computer is not conscious. Are desire and consciousness the samething? I would imagine, one can be conscious without any desire but one cannot have desire without being conscious.
Those are the nested triangles in the picture.
I have yet to read your other questions carefully, so I will respond to them a little bit later. Thanks

Syamala,

I think you did a great job representing it visually, I think our perspectives are in alignment. I think there is going to be a big tie in with this and everything else.

Keith,
Yes, the heart should be transparent,(I thought not coloring would do it) and without boundaries (I did not know how to do that!).
Again, yes "there is an inside and an outside always" in our lives. You said in a poetic way what some philosophers would say that the world is made up of opposites: good and bad, warm and cold, white and black, etc.
Is there need for a golden thread connecting everything? I assume you are refering to divine consciousness. As you know, some say yes and some say no. You are not alone in having no answers to questions like the ones you shared with us here because they are not easy!

Dear Syamala,

Thank you for making this interesting diagram. I truly believe in holistic nature and that it is indeed surrounded by an all encompassing love.

So to me, it contains everything. Sadly all understanding and knowledge is so scattered nowadays and hardly no one seems to want to listen to another's perspective anymore.

I guess one's inner truth is the most important thing there is to value and that one tries to live that truth.

You have formulated your inner truth beautifully and i thank you for that :)

With appreciation and love, Mieke

Richard,
Thanks. What a relief! I thought you were going to pull some more bullets from your bag of quotes to fire at me. Or, am I saying it too soon. Just kidding. Thanks again.
Actually, this computer thing is not an analogy but a fact. Our brains do have memories and thought processes and what is contained in a computer is only a mapping (or representation) of what we have in our brains.
Meike, thanks.

Dear Syamala:

I appreciate the hard work and imagination you have put into the Holistic chart unifying body, mind, and consciousness etc. However, there is a fundamental weakness in the following assumption:

" So the mental universe is similar to computer software. Then, one would equate consciousness, the one unifying force to the computer operator because the operator is in control of the computer at anytime and has the freedom to change or stop programs or switch the computer on and off, etc"

Consciousness is not an operator, which has nothing but a body and mind. Consciousness is free will or spontaneity in nature that is not describable via computer software. The logic is forwarded by Roger Penrose, the famous mathematician and software expert and a colleague of Professor Stephen Hawking, in his book "Emperor's New Mind".

I can send you a more concise representation of mind and consciousness that is consistent with the observed universe and cosmological models described in a recent paper listed below:

A. Singh, Bridging Contemplative & Physical Sciences: A New Approach to the Problems of Consciousness & Mind, submitted to the conference - Toward a Science of Consciousness 2007, Budapest, Hungary, July 23-26, 2007.

Abstract

This paper builds a bridge between the materialistic physical science and the contemplative science via integrating a new innovative model of consciousness and mind. Consciousness issues within the context of modern neuroscience and related problems in contemporary physics are addressed. Current theories of consciousness look towards information theory, information integration theory, complexity theory, neural Darwinism, reentrant neural networks, quantum holism etc. to provide some hints. These theories fall short of the rigors and quantitative measures that are normally required of a scientific theory. The most perplexing philosophical conundrums of the "hard problem" and "qualia" that afflict modern neuroscience can be resolved by a deeper understanding of the physics of the very small (below Planck scale) and very large (at the boundaries of the universe) scales. The modern philosophy of mind proposes that consciousness is a higher-order mental state that monitors the first or base state possibly generated by the brain. This paper builds upon the early approaches to consciousness wherein it was proposed that the state of self-consciousness is not a separate, higher-order consciousness of a conscious experience, but represents a continuum of the lower order states generated by the brain experience. In such a larger context, many of the mysteries of physics and neuroscience can be explained with an integrated model. This paper proposes such an integrated model that provides a direct relationship between the physics concepts of space, time, mass, and energy, and the consciousness concepts of spontaneity and awareness. The observed spontaneity in natural phenomena, which include human mind, is modeled as the higher order or universal consciousness. The integrated model explains the recent observations of the universe and demonstrates that the higher order consciousness is a universal rather than a biologically induced phenomenon. The neurobiological mind is shown to represent a subset of the complimentary states of the prevailing higher order universal consciousness in the form of the continuum of space-time-mass-energy. The proposed approach integrates spontaneity or consciousness into the existing and widely-accepted theories of science to provide a cohesive model of the universe as one wholesome continuum. The model represents the essential reality of different levels and dimensions of experience, both implicit and explicit, consciousness and matter, to be seen as equivalent and complimentary states of the same mass-energy known as the zero-point energy. The universal consciousness is shown to represent the spontaneous kinetic energy of the extreme kind, which is the ultimate complimentary state wherein everything in the universe is experienced as the zero-point energy field in a fully dilated space and time continuum.

Please send me your e-mail to allow me sending the diagram. My e-mail is avsingh@alum.mit.edu.

Can you post the diagram on intentblog? How do you do that?

Love & Regards,
Avtar Singh

Avtar,
Computer operator has body and mind. The Operator beginning with big O does not. I did not say that Operator (same as Consciousness) has body and mind. Where did I say that? Consciousness is called Operator in this analogy exactly because consciousness has free will just like the computer operator who is free to change the software or hardware. Neither the hardware nor the software can change themselves or set themselves into motion by themselves. That is what dumb about them. Similarly, mind (thought plus memory) is not conscious (that is what Vedanta says) though it is very hard for us to see that.
Neither did I say free will is describable by computer software. The computer operator has the freedom to do anything with the computer not vice versa; in otherwords, the hardware or software have no freedom to change the operator or themselves. That is exactly the point. In otherwords, I did not say what you thought I said.

Avtar,
Thanks for offering to send me your diagram. My email address is murty_hari@yahoo.com. I am still reading your paper.

Dear Syamala!
I can spot Sai Baba's spirit emanating from someone from (many) miles away!
Todd

Syamala,

Thanks for responding! I agree with you about the
difficulties involved in an integrated system which
contains more than one energetic force.

The sages will say that what is outside is inside
and that what we want we already have. So if we do
contain all of the knowledge of the Universe
somewhere on our inner parts it must be stored some place. Total recall seems to be a dangerous
ability, else why would Nature hide it?
Seeing into the future could only be possible
if it was already set, and nobody likes a fixed game.

Spontaneity smacks of intervention or dice throwing.
It has a suddenness about it and is not always wise.
Are we looking for something that trumps physical laws?
Or a force that shows off it's perfect timing?
Like a thief in the night...?

Now some are puffed up,
as though I would not come to you.

But I will come to you shortly,
if the Lord will, and will know,
not the speech of them which are puffed up,
but the power.

For the kingdom of God is not in word,
but in power.

What will ye? shall I come unto you with a rod,
or in love, and in the spirit of meekness?

1 Corinthians: 18-21

Thanks D.K. and Harb, Mieke, Richard, Syamala, Alex, Avtar, & Todd!

Dear Harb,
Please post your first experience of oneness when you get a chance! I am very much interested in studying that. And if you have an ultimate experience of oneness I would be interested in that too. If I have these insights about you I will be able to resonate more efficiently with you.
Todd

Dear Todd, here is my first experience and I will write about my second later. To me this is more complete/important than the second. It was like loe-agt-first-sight while the second was like 'going there 'step by step' or consciously. The later though gave me the insight for my book. Here is my first experience:

My First Experience of Oneness

By the age of 25 I had completed my degree in Civil Engineering, joined govt. service, got married and fathered two sons. For the next about three years, while my friends and colleagues were busy building up their careers I found myself lost in what one may say are the eternal questions of mankind: Who am I? Where have I come from? Where am I supposed to go after my so-called death? Has my being, my "I" some permanent point of reference or is it merely a chance bubble floating meaninglessly in the wilderness of space? What is space? Where this world ends? What is beyond that? What is God? What is good and bad? What is the best way to live this unimaginably short life? Could it be that all this (alluding mentally to the world around) never have been? Were there then to be no.. nothing …forever….f o r e v e r….. N E V E R…?

Then one day while I was sitting all alone in my brother's rented flat in a big city, suspended from my govt. service, separated from my wife and two children, diseased of unattended body and dejected of unanchored mind, something entirely unexpected happened. Something like lightening but unaccompanied by usual light and thunder seemed to flux out of my head upwards, encompassing simultaneously somehow the whole of the universe into its fold…

Actually it is not easy to describe such an experience…For, initially it so overwhelms your being that you lose all your sense of separateness, of individuality. And at long last when you regain some semblance of your sense of separateness, of individuality then something like what the scientists call Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle - simply put which states that at deeper levels you can know one aspect of reality only at the cost of the other - inhibits its truest recollection much more description: in clothing it with words you tend to lose its essential stuff, its essential beauty, in trying to capture its essential stuff, its essential beauty you increasingly get lost to the world of words…

It was not something which had happened to me as say an ordinary incident or even accident would happen to me: a happening, happening to me as something separate from ‘me,’ so that I could simultaneously act as an observer and a participator, so that I could 'note it down' as it happened. It had somehow involved me totally: it had somehow involved even that part of me which was supposed to 'note it down,' was supposed to act as the base on which the mechanism of my memory was to function.

Anyway, what a way of finding the answers! Off go rather the questions themselves. Off goes rather the wall itself between ‘me’ and the rest of Nature which had actually been the cause of all those questions. The questioner, the questioning and the things questioned had somehow got dissolved into one single whole, into one single woolly unity!

Consequently, I got myself reinstated into my service, brought my family to live with me at my new place of posting and, in general, let my life adrift.

And again, what a life it was! Eight years of almost total abandon! Everything seeming to happen as if on its own, while ‘I’ seemed to be standing still, a mere spectator to events! My family, social and service lives sub-serving one way or the other the unstoppable flow of only this almost wordless life! Perhaps it was what Nietzsche meant from his life beyond good and evil…

=======

Thanks, Harb

Dear Harb,
My first trip to The Monroe Institute
The Brainmapping Project
The people from The Monroe Institue of Applied Sciences had been calling me after I sent them a transcript of my NDE pyramid experience. On one particular call I told one of their scientists the entire world was about to change. And it would change through (The human wall). I had seen this human wall during an OBE and was told this by a ball of energy. Approximately 2 weeks later The Berlin Wall event occured. They immediately contacted me and invited me to have my brain mapped and apparently I had the honor of being one of the first subjects to be tested with their new EEG and other brainmapping equipment. When I arrived to the institute I was met by an elderly Bob Monroe and his wife and she did the talking while Bob just stared at me and smiled. I was led into their laboratory and was met by Skip Atwater (head of the Brainmapping Project). They put me on a waterbed with a microphone suspended from the ceiling. The room was small and soundproof. They connected the EEG wires to me as well as some other devices such as a skin voltage monitor (gsr). They asked me through the microphone to use the meditation that caused the unusual experiences I was having. I decided to recreate my NDE (pyramid) formation within my meditation. I remember my body heating up and a smell like burning rubber in the room. Finally I had the square waves rolling in and forming the pyramid. After the experience ended they told me to relax and come back to normal consciousness. I was then met by Skip Atwater as he had a graph in his hand. He said the graph was my Galvanic skin response test. The line on the graph was slightly wavy and near the bottom of the paper. Suddenly the line shot to the top of the paper and went into nearly perfect (square waves)! Skip Atwater said that to produce square waves on this test was (medically) impossible. They wouldn't show me the EEG and just said they had to analyze it. They kept in contact with me and invited me back about 2 months later with the exact same results. What baffles me about the experiment is that I was trying to produce square waves in my meditation and electrical square waves were produced on the GSR. That is mind boggling. Deepak says my non-local mind produced the event. Anyway, just another entry to my holistic pyramid knowledge. I hope everone enjoyed it.
Todd

Wow! Awesome experience Harb!
It appears to me you are one of the most advanced souls that are born into this world and slip effortlessly into (The Natural State). Bypassing the preceeding levels on the way to the opening of the sahasrara crown chakra. They say Ramana Maharshi was such a being. Very impressive my friend! I look forward to more discussion.
Todd

Todd, an other interesting observation in connection with your comment. Till about eight years after my experience I had not heard about Ramana Maharshi even though he belonged to India. And I even thought that there was nothing further to be known, seen by me. So thinking of a guru was out of the question. But after about eight years by which time I had exhausted myself with enjoyments of all kinds, I suddenly read a line about Ramana in a book and it so hooked me that for the next about eight years he/his pictures/books were all around me. He would even come to my dreams at crucial moments. It was the time when I went down to my roots as I say to have that same experience again but now consciously, step by step. And it was during this experience, when I was at the bottom of my being so to say that I had the insight for my book. Interestingly again, for a couple of years before that I would go to Ramana's ashram and ask him what for have I come into this world. IN fact it was at one of my visits to his ashram that I chanced upon a book The Tao of Physics which introduced me to the latest developments in physics and to four basic forces. So, in a word, Ramana is very very intimately connected with me and I have even dedicated my book to him.

I find it interesting that Ramana should come to your mind after reading my experience.

Harb.

Todd, as the whole world is our mind's projection I think Deepak is right. What you tried to do in your meditation first materialised in your astral(electromagnetic) plane.

Love, Harb

Following the topic of Computer Science, Artificial Intelligence and the human brain, mind and consciousnessness, I am so compelled to tell this story and I've put it off for a day.

I went to a holistic convention and there were many speakers. I never make an effort to see auras (really I would say see around people). This particular evening, I did make the effort and I succeeded.

A young girl was singing a challenging song. Due to her age, I don't think she had a lot of audience experience. Well, I saw a body form beside her. I saw part of the body (like the heart chakra and the throat chakra) pre-helping her. I saw what she was apprehensive about (like a challenging high-pitched, lilting segment of song). It was amazing to watch.

So I have a problem with the model as it is. It leaves out this etheric double.

Okay, so what?

Well, since I was a little girl I dreamt of a data base (wow that would be a computer) that would store all symptoms, all diseases, all syndromes, and all known treatments. It was my childhood experience to witness doctors who misdiagnosed many times, many people.

So I dreamt of this data base.

Now that the data base is possible and probably exists, we can focus on treatment.

However, if artificial intelligence operates as western thought does ... totally eradicating the input of Masters who see what I saw thought night, then Computer Science will be dealing healing a tremendous setback.

Symala, somehow your discussion about the operator and the program helped me to really grasp the necessity of the vital missing element.

Fiction has often joked or tragically portrayed artificial intelligence automatons taking over.

Well, people who do not see subtle energy and insist it, therefore, does not exist are the automatons already, birthing programs in their image.

I agree with DK we are in the early stages.

That being said I would like to present an experiment that everyone can try.

I have written about it in a few places over the years but have not really published. I usually call it

THE TELEVISION STATIC EXPERIMENT

Back in the 80's when I had a new and very different comprehension of the universe evolve which I will present later when the time is right, I was up late one night.

I found myself staring at the TV, somehow I had arrived at a channel where it was pure random static, white noise as some may call it. There were no bleed throughs from other channels.

At the time I was thinking about quantum foam and realized that I was looking at a random field of white and dark points of somewhat varying size.

Basically random chaos much like the idea of quantum foam.

It was then that a pattern caught my attention. It is hard to describe but is is much like a spiral rolling sphere. Then I noticed others and they would travel a short distance and then dissolve back into the chaos.

I thought this was very interesting what was producing them?

Well after a minute or so of looking at this phenomena, I am not sure quite how It came about but I consciously intentionally shifted the direction of one of the patterns. Much like we move objects with our mind in the “dream” world, which never seems to work in the real world when the same “intent” is put forth, for good reason I expect!

The realization was that I was producing the objects, or at least they were occurring in my mind.

So anyway here I was finding myself able to control these patterns which vary in size etc. The appearance was that I was controlling external objects with my mind and even creating them, although I did experience them accident at first which hints at a natural and inherent process. I was able to alter and shift their path and “rotation” at will.

Note: The path shift was not abrupt, but like a slow down and shift as if it were following some law of physics.

What I knew though was that this was a very subjective experience, and that the objects were really being created in my mind / brain, not on the TV, yet the TV static provided the field for this experience. The appearance was that the objects were external and separate from me.

It was if my mind was filtering the chaos using various inherit geometries, which doubled as a form of projection. So we have “projection by filtering”.

Several other people have tried it, and had the same experience.

It takes a slight shifting of focus where one does not look at a specific point.

The easiest way to get a random field generator is to unplug your cable connection or disconnect the antenna and tune to a channel that is not used, one that is farthest away from other frequencies that are used.

I would be curios as to what others experience.

I also think the phenomena could be further studied to understand what is going on and how the brain is producing this effect. Also to see if it would possible for several to see and share the same objects making it not a totally subjective experience.

In summary it would give support to the idea that we create reality out of quantum chaos. Which as I implied before could be the base unified force or energy. It is the observer or consciousness that gives rise to form. This experiment does in fact demonstrate the

THE CREATION OF FORM FROM CHAOS BY THE MIND

Here again we have a subjective experience and the hole to be filled is how or what could allow this to become a shared or objective experience.

How does the subjective become objective? We all experience the sun rising daily and floating over our heads. We all would agree on this, even though our individual experience is subjective. Does that mean that it is “agreement” that creates a subjective experience? Does it mean that certain inherit laws in the universe produce shared objective experience?

One area I would like to research or test is if we could take subjective experience shared by multiple individuals that were in agreement and qualify it as objective?

Is this the way for science to move into the subjective realm of the observer yet maintain it’s objectivity? By summarizing or quantification of multiple subjective experiences do we establish objectivity?

Although my mind produces the objects the patterns, the behavior seemed to be influenced by something else what some might construe as the laws of physics, yet I do not produce or maintain these properties consciously they come from somewhere else.

I would also note that when I was about 14 I was told that physics as understood by mankind was "backwards" but I wouldn't understand at the moment. That was it, and it was this single notion that to develop alternate perspectives throughout the years.

What are you thoughts, what do you experience looking at the random chaotic static?

DOES YOUR MIND PRODUCE FORM ON THE CANVAS OF CHAOS?

This above should have read,

--Does that mean that it is “agreement” that creates an **objective*** experience? Does it mean that certain inherit laws in the universe help produce a shared objective experience?--

In further thought is the entire observable universe produced from the quantum foam?

Note also that although using instruments for measurement creates objectivity, the data from the instrument is still processed by an observer. It is only that we come to agreement on the data produced that gives it objectivity. But it still involves the observer. One cannot eliminate the observer from the equation.

In fact if we look at what an instrument is, it is a shared creation. An instrument of measurement is like a device that combines subjective data into objective data.

It removes the control from the individual point of view, distributing control to a collective or collection of POVs.

I would also add that not only objects appear, but one can also have the experience of movement as if traveling through space. Sometimes the whole sections of the screen blobs will seem to drift together across the screen.

One thing we could do is record the random field and replay it to see if any of the same objects would be experienced or if through suggestion we could create the experience.

What seems to be missing is straight lines and angles although rod like patterns can emerge and the boundaries are always sort of fuzzy.

What is cool is the effect of traveling into or through the field.

This is, by the way all leading to a major comprehension.

I have put forth the premise that there is no travel in the universe.

Of course many will scoff at the idea at first, thinking well I just saw a bird fly across the sky, I went to the store and returned today.

Which are all valid and real experiences?

Science portends the probability of extraterrestrial intelligence to be 100%. Science also portends that visitation requiring actual travel across millions of light years is impossible. So this self imposed limitation is acting as a roadblock to many discoveries.

So science portends we could not have been seeded here or visited.

I think as we follow through on all this we will see how this (as I have) is in fact possible, and without traveling at light speed.

Now some might think what practical application would this all have?

Well Fusion requires miles and miles of pipes which add to the expense. There is a way to eliminate this need, sort of a mechanical leap much like the transistor. If this cost is eliminated then I think fusion becomes viable.

As for interstellar travel there is still a lot to be figured out, the actual dynamics and manipulation of space, time and form suitable for real application.

We will soon be ready to apply the energy aspects, the understanding of which is a precursor to travel, at least the functional appearance of it.

Dear DK and Richard,

I am lost in this new grand scheme of all creation and also in your words Richard.

I am practicing Hatha yoga for about 30 years now and developed a certain attitude that gives me most of the time a blank screen in my mind. The exercises we do are nourishing for the body and the meditation on the body at the end is blissful. It brings me to a certain awareness that gives stillness and afterwards inspiration.

And my inspirational thoughts create my reality which is a very peaceful one. So in my opinion i only need 3 things:

Silence, thoughts, reality.
Silence is golden
Thoughts are silver
Reality is bronze

Hope i am adding something?

Dear Mieke,

Well one could just say "simply be" which is enough.

But invariably people ask questions and start labeling everything and asking why.

Thanks Richard :)

I guess here i am, just going to be, and let it all happen :).

In Dutch they would say: "Ik ben aan het eind van mijn Latijn"

In English this would mean: i've reached the end of my input.

Will be reading though with interest how the holistic image will develop :)

Love, Mieke

Dear Mieki,

Interesting that you have that phrase. Is it different from "that is all I have to say"? So for the present moment you have reached the end of your input. It is sort of an energy thing. There will be many future moments in which you will have input I am sure. One nights sleep can often do it.

Sometimes if we become attached to an outcome it can be draining which is why letting it happen is a good thing.

This discussion does involve a large volume of conceptual thought, I don't try to think about or digest it all at once, and it will go through it's own process of simplification and refinement over time.

Love
Richard

Mieke, Richard

Mieke, yes, there is nothing beyond 'to be.' All these worlds belong to 'you'. They are like the theoretically never-ending waves on a sea once a pebble is thrown into it. But having found that you are in fact the sea/water itself, you need not necessarily count the waves. Whatever the number that will ultimately come to or vanish into you. Just be aware of your own being. And carry on with your play, all the worlds will take care of themselves...

As four basic forces can further be expanded into numerous forces, similarly, the four phases of any life/world can be further expanded into many.

Morever, as day ends after 12 hours but it also ends after 24 hours if we include night part, similarly our life ends with our death but it also goes beyond our death. And just as we divide our 12 hour day or 'alive' life into four phases similarly we can divide the remaining of the 'day' and 'dead' life into four phases. And similarly, we can divide the worlds. So just take these eight worlds to belong to both day as well as night part of the world.

Richard, yes, seen from the ultimate spirit's perspective - or when we completely identify with spirit - there is no travel. You simply throw your universe out of yourself on the canvas of spirit and then suck it back. 'You' have gone no where.

Harb

Tapestry,
Some more thoughts on "Fiction has often joked or tragically portrayed artificial intelligence automatons taking over."
Now a days, we hardly do our arithmetic using paper and pencil because we have all these calculators, palm pilots and so on, which do the job much quicker and much faster. Wouldn't you say they have practically taken over the job of doing arithmetic from us. They did because that is why we made them, to take over. It is funny, we do not say calculators are intelligent although if a child does arithmetic well, we would say he/she is intelligent; for example, I know one Sakuntala Devi who was admired for her amazing intelligence because she could do arithmetic fast and perfect like a calculator.
Do we know what we mean by "intelligence"?

So also, our robots go to places where we (human beings) cannot go and accomplish tasks which we cannot because they are created to take over those tasks. They are "intelligent" machines. But isn't the engineer who created the robot intelligent? Yes of course, although he himself cannot do what the robot he created can do. Robots definitely take over if robots can create engineers! So, biologists are actually trying to see whether they can create life in their labs from organic/chemical scratch. As we all know, there is already a fight over whether it is ethical to clone human beings or not.
Seeing all these developments in science and technology, one may wonder "is there anything at all that a lifeless machine cannot do?" It turns out that 1) a machine cannot start or change itself on its own (also known as free will) and 2) it can never "know". Knowing is not simply being able to record some information in a memory and to retrieve it whenever necessary; this computers can do. But they do not know themselves, their existence, what they are doing.

Sorry, in my previous post instead of "much quicker and much faster" please read "much quicker and without errors"

DK,
In your diagram today, you made a distinction between matter and non-matter which you call spirit. The following is the relation of spirit to the computer-analogy diagram: spirit is split into two parts, Consciousness and Mind (Ego plus Logic that includes thought, memory and desire). This definition of Mind distinguishes it from the unifying Consciousness or Love in two ways: 1)it is Ego that creates individuality as opposed to oneness, 2) being able to record some stuff in a memory and retrieve it whenever necessary, or manipulate it using logic is not consciousness because as we know, a computer can do it (We do not think computers are conscious because they do all this!)

How close an analogy to the truth? How an anlogy help us understand the truth or can we understand the truth thru an analogy?

Dear Richard and Harb,

Thanks :)

Dear Syamala,

That was a very insightful comment #33.

Regarding #34: do you know the Pyramid of Maslow?
Maslow's hierarchy of needs? More a psychology, but perhaps there are items in the pyramid that can be incorporated in your diagram?

Here you can have a look at it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs

Love, Mieke

Syamala, i meant your comment #35 instead of #34 :)

Dear D.K.

Cool diagrams! I've never seen those first three before.

But I have seen the Rainbow Body, although with different
colors for the representation(Egyptian).

They propose a green disk as last form/source of energy.
Anybody else heard of this?

An OBE is traveling without going anywhere.
This should be provable but would take more than one person's
experience and a seeing of what this world agrees on that is there.

In One of my experiences, when I was 23 and under the influence,
I felt that when I died I wouldn't actually go anywhere
because there really was no place else to be.
The next morning I wondered what the hell that was all about.

I also had the feeling that I knew all that was
needed to know.
Back on Earth the next day, I could not believe it.

I still wonder sometimes if I ever left that chair
or if I'm really still sitting there dreaming up
the rest of my life. Weird...

Dear DK,

Thanks for the insight. It is high time this operator turns of its computer :)

Thanks so much for all the love and all the work.

I guess it is all in the game and everything is relative and changes all the time :)

With appreciation, acceptance and non-resistance,

all my love, Mieke

Isn't this what I have been talking about all along?
Todd

Dear Meike,
I looked at Maslow's hierarchy of needs. It has the wonderful message that our desires for worldly objects gradually evolve into the desire for what he calls self transcendance. Probably, this message is what we are trying to arrive at although not aware of it, in this effort here on holistics and "unification".
About incorporating Maslow's pyramids into my diagram: It is really easy. My diagram consists of a broad classification of all the topics and terms we have come across in our holistics dialogue. It has just three classes, Consciousness, Mind, and Matter (same as Nature, or physical universe). So, Maslow' pyramids would go right into the Desire section of the Mind triangle because these pyramids talk about desires and their evoloution.

Dear Meike,
I looked at Maslow's hierarchy of needs. It has the wonderful message that our desires for worldly objects gradually evolve into the desire for what he calls self transcendance. Probably, this message is what we are trying to arrive at although not aware of it, in this effort here on holistics and "unification".
About incorporating Maslow's pyramids into my diagram: It is really easy. My diagram consists of a broad classification of all the topics and terms we have come across in our holistics dialogue. It has just three classes, Consciousness, Mind, and Matter (same as Nature, or physical universe). So, Maslow' pyramids would go right into the Desire section of the Mind triangle because these pyramids talk about desires and their evoloution. However, how we bring together all the material that we put on this blog has to be carefully thought through and presented in a coherent way so that it makes good sense.

Dear Webmaster,
I pressed post once and only once. I am sure.

Dear Dk,
In your first diagram, you have just two entities: matter and spirit. In the second diagram, you have three: body, mind, and spirit. To make the meaning of spirit consistent in the two diagrams when we look at them together, does it make sense to add Mind in the lower levels of the first diagram where appropriate?

Also, about the first diagram: What is the role of matter in levels 1,2, and 3? Is there matter in level 4 or not? Do levels 4 and above represent gradual merging of Ego into the all unifying Consciousness or what are they?

Dear DK
Thanks and you explained it very well. What you said is consistent in essence with what I have heard before in this field of spirituality.
I was confused because I failed to see that you were referring to mind as a different type of matter. Here is why.
When you said mind is a type of matter, matter means Prakriti, which is usually translated into Nature (Physical nature plus Mind and all non-conscious stuff). Matter is usually taken to mean what is perceivable by the physical senses directly or indirectly and what is dealt by today's physics, chemistry, etc. Also, since you say "the mind is resident in the causal and astral planes only" and "the body, is restricted to plane zero or the physical plane" and it is shown as matter in the second diagram, it looked as though body alone is matter.
Thanks for taking the time to explain.
For the sake of clarity, may I ask you to replace the word MATTER with NATURE in the first diagram?
Now that I understand what you mean by Spirit, Spirit is equivalent to Consciousness in my diagram (I take back the relation between the two diagrams in post #35.)

Dear DK

My head is spinning from trying to understand diagrams from cultures I have little grounding in. Anyway, it's great that this effort is being made to discuss the possible structures of mind and spirit in time/space. Thank you.

love, Heath

Dear DK

Thank you for your comment, your heart, your spirit and your lovely phrasings. :)

love, Heath

Dear DK,
I like that Beatles song, and I also like - 'be the change you want to see'.
Life offers both possibilities!
~ Kate

Love lyrics, from OT

Lyrics:

Everywhere I go, all the
places that I've been
Every smile is a new horizon
on a land I've never seen

There are people around the
world - different faces
different names
But there's one true emotion
that reminds me we're the
same...

From the laughter of a child
to the tears of a grown man
There's a thread that runs
right through us all and helps
us understand

As subtle as a breeze - that
fans a flicker to a flame
From the very first sweet
melody to the very last
refrain...

Let's talk about love - It's all that
we are needing. It's the air that
we are breathing.
Let's talk about life - I want to
know you.
Let's talk about trust - and I
want to show you.
Let's talk about love

Dear Todd,
I always enjoy reading about your experiences. Thanks for sharing.
Love,
Char

Hi All! We have quite been discussing here since long that "Today's spirituality is tomorrow's science."

Here is one more confirmation:

I have already written at my website according to my insight that the universe evolution happens in cycles of Big Bang to Big Crunch. Here is a copy:

"The universe gets wound up into and unwound from four basic forces on its eternal cycles of contraction and expansion or devolution and evolution just as, to a certain extent, a tree gets wound up into and unwound from its seed to become the next tree."

Now, today I just chanced upon an article which says that some scientists are exploring the idea of a cyclical universe.

Here it is:

'Cyclic universe' can explain cosmological constant
19:00 04 May 2006
NewScientist.com news service
Zeeya Merali

A cyclic universe, which bounces through a series of big bangs and "big crunches", could solve the puzzle of our cosmological constant, physicists suggest.

The cosmological constant represents the energy of empty space, and is thought to be the most likely explanation for the observed speeding up of the expansion of the universe. But its measured value is a googol (1 followed by 100 zeroes) times smaller than that predicted by particle physics theories. It is a discrepancy that gives cosmologists a real headache.

In the 1980s, physicists considered the possibility that an initially large cosmological constant could decay down to the value measured today. But this theory was abandoned when calculations showed that it would take far longer than 14 billion years – the time since the big bang – for the constant to reach the level seen today.

Now physicists Paul Steinhardt at Princeton University, in New Jersey, US, and Neil Turok at Cambridge University in the UK, are resurrecting the idea. They point out that if time stretches back beyond the big bang, the problem could be solved. At that is just what is predicted by their cyclic model of the universe – an alternative to the Standard Big Bang theory – which the pair first developed in 2002 (see "Cycles of creation").

Endless cycle
"Ever since the 1960s, people assumed that the big bang was the beginning of time, because the laws of physics seem to break down there," says Turok. But the equations of string theory tell a different story, allowing time to exist before the big bang, he says.

According to Steinhardt and Turok, today's universe is part of an endless cycle of big bangs and big crunches, with each cycle lasting about a trillion years. At every big bang, the amount of matter and radiation in the universe is reset, but the cosmological constant is not. Instead, the cosmological constant gradually diminishes over many cycles to the small value observed today.

The physicists' calculations show that the cosmological constant decreases in steps, through a series of quantum transitions. Crucially, the higher the value of the constant, the more rapid the transitions, says Turok. But as the constant reaches lower levels, it changes more slowly, lingering on the lowest positive value for an extremely long time. That means that today's universe is most likely to have a small cosmological constant, just as we currently observe, says Turok.

"This is an ingenious solution," says cosmologist Alexander Vilenkin at Tufts University in Medford, Massachusetts, US. But he points out that there are other cosmic coincidences that the cyclic model cannot explain, like why the size of the cosmological constant is so similar to the density of matter in the universe today.

Turok says that he and Steinhardt will be looking at that problem next. "This is an initial attempt to go beyond Einstein's theory of gravity," says Turok. "It would be surprising if we solved everything first time."

Here is the address if you want to be uptodate about it. http://www.physics.princeton.edu/~steinh/

******

Continue watching. A few years from now science will be accepting my evolutionary theory in terms of four basic forces as well...that is, in the way I have explained it in this thread. Remember, no one as yet has told why Homo sapiens are named so except me - that they have been named so because seen from the most fundamental level their genesis began with unified force entering strong interactions in which it/they got imprisoned or 'homed in' in the nucleus from where they had to acquire knowledge (sapien) to get out/ahead.

The Constant

.

Hear ye, hear ye, see here...here I Am.

All the time, all of the spaces between moments,
every piece of every thing every where
belongs to The Highest.

Attention! Attention! Read all about it!

One cosmological constant is very logical cosmetically,
but beauty was not beautiful until there was Light.

As a log gradually warms before catching fire,
Creation slowly but surely awakens unto itself.

In essence, The Constant had a doubt...
it doubted it's own existence,
thus giving birth to it.

Then there were two, Light and Dark,
Purush and Prakriti, Yin and Yang,
Male and Female, Man and Time.

The One Constant was still...The Container,
unmoved, immobile, unchangeable Awareness,
of The Highest Order by Law.

Within the vessel the two intermingled,
stirred and warmed by continuous moments
until the very first bubble became in effect.

It was thus that air found a place to exist,
being filled with the goodness of wetness and Life's properties.

The Constant realized the initial sacrifice
of Itself and the resultant separation.
The bubble became the Single Eye
that could look out for itself.

Now seeing that it was essentially good,
the feelings of bliss burst forth a vibrant shock wave.
The Word became perfect sound, whole and complete.

The Constant was moved to tears.

.

What is Love if not a Constant Awareness
of This which is good and life-giving?

Does it matter if the log takes a long time to warm?
If the log could speak it would tell you of
the wonderful process it is going through.

It has seen others catch fire and glow
and believes in it's own inherent qualities.

It is not afraid to once again become the ashes,
for dust to dust is also only a process,
and love lives in between the flames.

Me2

Dear friends,
I thought you would be interested in some information from an article I read this morning.
"Light that can cure you"
"Exciting new research provides doctors with an alternative treatment to drugs or surgery for ailments ranging from acne to Alzheimer's".
"Researchers are exploring everything from penetrating beams of light that seem to repair heart tissue after a heart attack to "light therapy" that appears to improve Alzheimer's patients' ability to sleep through the night. Doctors are remedying the side effects of cancer tratments, severe acne and other ailments just by shining high-intensity light in varying colors on the affected area." "In these ground-breaking therapies, light emitting diodes, or LEDs, most often are used to apply concentrated doses of light to patients." LED's are not lasers, so tissue does not get hot, and the treatment is pain-free." "It's a change from the standard medical models of drugs and surgery, where you are basically either poisoning or cutting the patient." Light apparently works on human tissue at the cellular level, transferring energy to the mitochondria, which function as microscopic power plants, helping the body repair itself. Light also can speed up or slow down certain chemical processes in cells. Four types of light that are being used are
1. Near infrared
2. Red
3. Blue
4. Ultraviolet
# Apparently even viruses can even be treated with light
On a personal note-Mystics, yogi's, saints and healers have known for ages light is composed of consciousness and mind-directed light projection can have an infinity of effects in the material world. Apparently mainstream science is only a few aeon's behind!
Todd

Dear Char,
my email is mti2012@yahoo.com if you want to talk.
Todd

OMG awesome article!! But I really wish u elaborated more on the spritual planes... like I've heard of astral, causal and beyond, but didn't know there were so many sub-parts of that beyond hehe :)
Is there any link or resource I can refer to for more information on this?