Dear DK:

I have been re-reading Autobiography of a Yogi and the last thing I read was the following by
Rabindranath Tagore:

"Where the mind is without fear and the head is held high;
Where knowledge is free;
Where the world has not been broken up into fragments by narrow domestic walls;
Where words come out from the depth of truth;
Where tireless striving stretches its arms toward perfection;
Where the clear stream of reason has not lost its way into the dreary desert sand of dead habit;
Where the mind is led forward by Thee into ever-widening thought and action;
Into that heaven of freedom, my Father, let my country awake!!"

Then I come here and read this post.

How nice.

Kindest regards,

Bonnie

The Elegant Universe: Einstein's Dream...

Beyond Einstein...

>>The recorded conversation elegantly demonstrates how the two utilised the language of music, as a metaphor, to forge common ground between science & spirituality.

Dear DK,

If both men can have a conversation and understand each other,

If both men can relate to science and spirit, despite their preferences,

If both men are the very object of science and the very subject of spirituality,

How is it that they are forging a common ground?
Would you care to explain? The conversation is long but I don't see you elaborating on why you got to this conclusion.

Dear DK

What a dialogue! If wishes were horses, I'd ask to have ridden into the midst of it. Each man is reaching to the edge of the gap between them, then trying to bend the walls of the gap down so understanding flows out. In every sentence, I see something to think about for hours. Their characters, which make them willing to address each others' points of view with deep thoughtfulness, are something to think about, too.

As I write this, I've read only half of the dialogue. With each new segment I read, my sense of excitement grows. I'll say goodnight for now, I just woke for a minute, a broken knee makes it hard to sit and work, so I'll go back to sleep now, and finish reading in the morning.

love, Heath

Hi DK, very fitting thread!

I may tel you all an interesting observation about why music seems to take us to One so to say.

We begin from One with gravitational interactions and end into One with weak interactions. In the first we interact with the world through senses while in the later, through subtler feelings. No wonder one end of senses and subtler feelings, or highest of senses and subtlest of feelings seem to take us again to One ( to spiritual highs.)

As each interaction further go through four basic interactions, I wonder if sense of touch and of hearing thus do not belong to gravitational and weak interactions through and through.

I also wonder if this is the reason why touch and shabad heard direct from a spiritual master are most potent ways of receiving grace.

Some out of the box thoughts...Harb

Dear Harb,
I believe that music is in the very fabric of our being. From the moment we arrive, there is the beauty of sound, and singing, and in nature and in us - there is life - in Music.

Also, dancing is fun - which I did tonight :)
~ Kate

Dear Heather,
For now, sleep restfully. When you awake, may your knee be healed
(it really is, but if time disagrees - I will try and compress for you :)
love,
~ Kate

Dear Heather,

Wish you quick recovery of your knee. Sending you loving and healing vibrations.

And i do agree with your thoughts and am in this respect reminded of the Beatles who have been great bridge builders in the sixties/seventies, not only with sound and music, but also with their lyrics. I was on a lyrics site yesterday where they had all their songs categorized from A to Z. Had such a marvellous journey into their words again :)

And not to forget John Lennon's "Imagine" and George Harrison's "My Sweet Lord".

Love, Mieke

Dear DK and all,

This morning i was reading an article in one of our Newspapers that struck me as being very much related to our project on HQR. Cannot resist to translate some of it and quote it hereunder:

Quote from NRC Handelsblad 17-02-2007 from a Dutch article by Peter Cuyers:

"The real history of humanity consists of billions positive and even loving interactions between billions of people, now and then interrupted by small groups of egocentric people who want to have more than the rest.

When looked at it that way, it would mean that some 6 billion world citizens behave themselves and establish together a daily ethical lifestyle, no matter the ethical level of their society.

Parents do everything for their children, families and friends support each other, whether they live in a democratic land or in a theocratic or totalitarian land.

But because daily Samaritarian conduct is not spectacular, we never find anything of it back in the media."

I believe that is why one can find millions of those samaritarian projects on the Internet as a kind of prove that this is really true in a large part of the world.

Another interesting quote from this article:

"and it shows that human being is already very much capable to live its life without the so-called "Big Leaders".

One who has only a little bit insight into history, knows that only people who are afraid call for leadership".

Hello DK and Everyone,

Mieke, I absolutely agree with your #11. On September 11, 2001 what struck me most was not the men who flew the planes but all the men and women who ran to the World Trade Center buildings while they were burning to HELP there fellow man. They were the "light" that caught my eye on that very dark day. Really, right there, I knew the World would be okay, because there are so many more people who willing to save a life rather than take a life. The fact that people will put their own life in danger to save another is awesome, indeed, and on September 11, 2001 the World gave witness to this.

have a great day, ruth

Hello DK and everyone,

Heather, started reading from the bottom up and just read your comment, wishing you a fast and comforable healing process...take care..

have a wonderful day, ruth

DK,

Post # 2 and especially, # 3 by Jean Francois.

Albert Einstein was humble enough to realize that he was far from understanding the ultimate truth. His limitations could never be taken as the proof that there was no 'beyond' to his theories. Only a humble man knows that he can not know it all – and I think that he was indeed a humble man.

If 2 people can not agree on everything they see, they just can not agree, even if there is a fight. To imply that they are forging common ground just because they can not quite comprehend the totality 'of their very nature' sounds more like a particular inclination of the observer who concludes inexistence based on what he can not be compehended.

DK:

You also need to put in some summary or main lessons from the book -- "The Ending of Time" which is a dialog between J. Krishnamurthi and Dr. David Bohm. It is a very fascinating journey of discovery!

Cheers,
Desh
Drishtikone.com

PS: Drishtikone has been shortlisted in the category of "Indiblog of the year" by Indibloggies.org jury... if you like it, please vote at http://poll.indibloggies.org/index.php?sid=1

In the silence, at the core of your being you can hear the music of eternity. Love is what orchestrates the songs and the conductor is Love itself

PS Harb, I bought your book "self designed universe. DK and the community are in my prayers--Tom

The Elegant Universe Part 2: String's The Thing...

Based on the message of Desh, I have made some researches and found an interesting dialog with Krishnamurti y David Bohm.

I think it could be interesting to insert it in the Socratic Dialog.

Krishnamurti y David Bohm en El futuro de la humanidad (The future of the humanity)...

Dear Tom, thank you, but I must warn you that my book will be very difficult to read. It was more to copyright a new idea than for selling. You may not find the same Harb there as here. The Harb as author of the book is not aware of any reader/book market. He just wanted to get rid of an overburdening idea in whatever way.

Thank you all the same again, Harb

Dear DK

Thanks for telling me that was the Pledge of Independence for India, I did not know that. I
think it is beautiful!!! and seems to have the same spirit as that of Tagore and Einstein's conversation.

Heather:
Am sending love and healing thoughts to your knee.

Meike:
To your post #11 you could also add
George Harrison's "Beware of Darkness"
"Watch out now
Take care
Beware of greedy leaders
Who take you where
You should not go"

Anyway, it's off to bed for me. Goodnight everyone.

Bonnie

Dear DK,

You have put an interesting question. I am sure that touch is at the bottom, that is, it belongs to gravitational interactions. But I am not yet clear about others because according to my theory four forces have their centers at naval, heart, head and spiritual heart, and so the senses too should have been located in these four places. But except touch all others are located in the head region. Perhaps while touch can directly take us to one, to the heart, all others first go through (register at) ego/mind/intellect?)

Later...Harb

Dear DK, I had written something about this 'sixth sense' but forgot about its name as such so I deleted it. Thank you for reminding, it now so well fits into what I had written as below:

"Gravitational interactions and weak interactions connect back to back, so there must be an equivalent of physical touch of the gravitational interactions with some other form of touch of the weak interactions. And as I can understand it, it must be the touch of the soul."

I forgot about the sixth sense, but now it is clear that it must be this touch of the soul with other souls and ultimately All Soul - which happens when we quantum jump from strong interactions to weak interactions, or when our Sahasrara opens - just as physical touch is the touch with other bodies and ultimately with the All Body.

No wonder when mind along with all its senses of taste, smell, seeing, and hearing is out of the picture and we are in touch with All in terms of only body and soul only, we are said to be in Samadhi, or said to be one with One or God.

Harb.

Harb,

I was under the impression that sound, "AUM", was first,
and therefore the ability to hear comes first and is
the last to go.

From some old notes of mine I see I wrote the Egyptian order.

1. See (Khu)
2. Feel (AB)
3. Smell (Ba)
4. Hear (Khaibit)
5. Memories (Sahu)
6. Speech (Sekem)
7. Taste(?) (Khu)

On the sixth sense...upon my Grandmother's death
came my biggest question ever addressed to God.

Did she make it to Heaven?

It was then it happened and something went through me
or left me, I'm not sure. I was certainly touched,
moved, and the feeling of an extreme heaviness
was completely removed. I felt light and satisfied.
She did indeed "make it"! This I know for sure.

I almost felt as if it was Jesus who visited me
and I became a changed man, just ask my family.

In continuation of the above #23:

We can put mind - also antimatter, virtual matter in the case of the universe - out of the picture either by bypassing it as Avtar Singh suggests but in which case our Samadhi (reaching One, God, consciousness, Guru Nanak's message)will always remain premature, for our karmas will bring us back to it again one day, or by fully exhausting/understanding it as I suggest, and in the process outgrowing it, transcending it and in which case our Samadhi will be permanent, will really be what in religious circles is called "sahaj samadhi" - you will be in samadhi even while busy in your day-to-day living.

Harb

Keith, I will call that the opening of your sixth sense, of uniting of your innermost core or soul with All Soul. True you will feel light.

Regarding senses:

Heart is the ground of all, but on this the story is equally divided between heart and mind. They almost begin simultaneously with heart having a slight edge. I think touch belongs to heart and hearing to mind, so I would keep touch before hearing.

But beyond this I am not very learned as regards details. Enjoy whatever way you can. All is in the scheme of things and we will traverse all.

Harb

This news might be of some interest towards the on going Socratic dialogue about Holistic Relativity by DK and others.

http://www.physorg.com/news90697187.html

LSU professor resolves Einstein's twin paradox

"Subhash Kak, Delaune Distinguished Professor of Electrical and Computer Engineering at LSU, recently resolved the twin paradox, known as one of the most enduring puzzles of modern-day physics."

"Kak’s findings were published online in the International Journal of Theoretical Physics, and will appear in the upcoming print version of the publication."

"The implications of this resolution will be widespread, generally enhancing the scientific community’s comprehension of relativity."

Citation: Subhash Kak, "Moving Observers in an Isotropic Universe http://www.springerlink.com/content/e4670q159464473r/?p=9724bdccded240a59c384dcdefcded98π=1

Source: Louisiana State University

thx for that link Innocentvictim. Wow! Solving Einstein's paradoxes.

The Elegant Part 3: Welcome to the 11th Dimension...

Harb,

Reagrding #26, from the standpoint of embryonic development
I will have to agree.

In regards to #25, the soul wishes to experience
Everything. As was once said,

"Time is Nature's way of keeping Everything
from happening all at once."

Excepting for Buddha, when he lived a multitude of lives
during one sitting under the TREE.

Is that what you mean by exhaustion?
I'd be dead tired, too!

Treading off, Keith~

This was a beautiful piece of dialogue. Thank you DK for sharing it!

I especially liked this quote, "In creation we follow the central law of existence, but if we do not cut ourselves adrift from it, we can have sufficient freedom within the limits of our personality for the fullest self-expression." ~ Tagore

Love, Char

I was delighted read this wonderful dialogue of two great sages, accompanied by such a beautiful picture - many thanks DK Mittal.

However, if I may throw a respectful and gentle challenge into the ring here regarding Sir Rabindranath's view:

"the musical system in India, which is not so rigidly fixed as western music. Our composers give a certain definite outline, a system of melody and rhythmic arrangement, and within a certain limit the player can improvise upon it. He must be one with the law of that particular melody, and then he can give spontaneous expression to his musical feeling within the prescribed regulation. We praise the composer for his genius in creating a foundation along with a superstructure of melodies, but we expect from the player his own skill in the creation of variations of melodic flourish and ornamentation".

My sense is that this applies as much to western classical music as it does to indian music but that our ears are not attuned to the difference. Sir Rabindranath's ears, accustomed to the idiom of Indian music, would hear a wealth of variety and detail that western ears could not detect. Conversely, western trained ears might hear powerful personalised variations on a well known classical theme that would seem wooden or rigid to indian trained ears. Music being very much like language derives its most profound meanings when the listener connects to it from a history of being immersed in that music's culture.

... this may also be said to re-affirm the quantum physics principle that a particle's physical existence is dependent upon and related to the observer of the particle.

Not that we cannot appreciate music from other cultures, just what that individual brings to the encounter is primordial in defining its meaning