To the mountain top, DK. There we will see clearly, ALL that is around us.

I note that the Greater good prevailed for you, but terrifying all the same. Would you have missed that?

Love,
Ed.

The real danger is the fear of danger itself.

Hi DK,

this is an interesting post, and I think these things are going to interest more and more people. Why I say this is because, as our general level of consciousness is rising, we have more access to things "unseen" . So we need to know how to handle them and journey safely and pleasantly.

We are all opening up to new dimensions, to new powers that become available to us, and as always, it is a matter of what our intention in using them is. The lady in this story was obviously not very close to her spiritual core, and she had started to access the inner power we all have, but had not dealt with her greed, anger and desire to manipulate. So of course the whole story couldn't end well for her...

We are all opening up to this new dimension where we are not separate from each other, where things "happen" from what seems to be "a distance", and of course it can be scary. I remember at some point on my path, when I had started to navigate the field of consciousness, it felt really scary - I had this fear that if I let go and navigate... I can "land" just about anywhere. I knew that if I allow myself to see, I will be able to see everything, not only pretty things. But I understood quite early that it is all under our own control, the only thing needed is, like Edmund says, to keep the clear connection with the highest good and the deepest spiritual core, and all the shadows will dissipate, like the mirage they are.

And it all became even more clear when I understood that everything that happens "out there", happens in me. Whatever "ghost" I could ever encounter is a cluster of information born of personal or collective thought, floating around in the field, a meme, a product of human consciousness and completely harmless as soon as it is seen as what it is- a thought.

We are all heading that way- we are all beginning to access this deeper dimension of our existence, and if we still insist on burning people because of this, we could as well burn our quantum physicists :D:D...

With this increasing ability and power we are accessing, our responsibility is even greater. We MUST deal with our anger, greed and fear, we must face and heal these hidden sides of ourselves.

If I may say so, the beauty of your story is that it can show you that you are on both sides of the coin - your consciousness is refined enough to "see" things you didn't perceive before, and this is scaring you a lot because your judgment says that this new territory and your new power symbolized by "the witch" is dangerous and because you maybe are not completely sure you can handle the "demons" of anger and greed. The stories happening in the outer world are always only a symbol of what's happening in the inner world.

Thank you for this beautiful illustration of evolution in consciousness, dear DK.

Those who are guided by "Will to Power" in any way will eventually suffer and evolve to the stage of "Will to be Free."

That is a very spooky story, D.K.

"Devil, get thee behind me!" Watch your back.

Angel in front, demon behind, "I am" in the middle?

Are you saying that maybe I better get a silver cross
and hang it around my neck, just in case?

Can a sacred, blessed object keep away evil spirits?

Are we not to ignore them and keep our focus on
the goal of unification with God?

If they feed off of our anger and violent tendencies
then someone pure in heart is surely immune from their transgressions.

What about Frodo then? Was he immune from the power of The Ring?

No! But being pure in heart allowed him (along with a little help from his friends) to carry out
the fateful mission of destroying the One object
that could have united all powers into the One.

Does that make unification any more scary?
Not if that's the way it is already in the scheme
of things where good always triumphs over evil.

So...we may come across 'powers' along the road to freedom.
Until one becomes a Master they cannot know the extent
of the trouble caused by over-riding Man's free-will.
Nor can we see the ramifications in full view of the future.

Disturb the balance and somebody's likely to fall off the teeter-totter.

Will someone please define 'sanity'?
Am I sane? Same sane as your sane? Geez....

DK:

Some how I feel our paths are going to cross not to far in the future. I think I have something to offer your organization I'm just not sure of what it is yet.

Funny that this past 3 months I have been physically involved in building the "Bjoerg or Giant Snow Man" for this springs Sechseleuten ritual here in Zürich, Switzerland.

Did you know that the burning of the Björg is more then just celebrating the melting of the snows?

It has its roots in paganism and in the "psychic" realm symbolizes burning (chasing away) the spirits of winter to make room for the spirits of spring.

It is also believed that the speed at which the Börg is consumed by the flame is in direct correlation to the length of the upcoming summer.

Now although I am not into superstition or paganism and I place my soul wholly in the "spiritual" realm and not that of the "psychic" realm I must say that since I returned to Zürich from Los Angeles in 2003 I have been following this event and each summers length has been accurately predicted by the burning of the Börg. Coincidence? Most certainly can be.

Since our exchange on climate some time ago I have not actively participated in any of your threads although I am following most of them with great interest and enthusiasm.

I have difficulty swallowing many of the things you say and represent and believe it or not this is actually a good thing for me.

It seems that "we", "one" (= I) want so much for life to be easy. For it to agree with me. For all the pieces of the puzzle to magically fit themselves into place without there being any work done on my part.

The struggle that I find myself in when it comes to many of your posts is truly an opportunity for me to question my own beliefs and zones of comfort. To my perceptions of this world I call my home.

Thanks for the opportunity.

I do agree with you here:

"...Siddhis can be a dangerous affair and impediment to true spiritual progress. There is no such thing as a free lunch..."

~Post #1

Thanks again DK

D.K.:

An excerpt of what I posted concerning this subject on the:

SEX AND THE SIDDHIS" thread:

"Certain schools of Buddhism view these "extraordinary human abilities" as potential hinderances to final "enlightenment". Even one unattached to attaining "enlightenment" and acquiring the powers of "omnipotence, omnipresence and omniscience" is still at risk of mistaking these acquired "powers" as being the "final goal".

In my years of reading western mystic literature I came across, time and again, warnings against confusing psychic powers with spiritual enlightenment. It seems that there is the physical the psychical and the spiritual realms. The psychical realm is a thinly veiled illusion that some equate with the realm of the "devil".

I don't believe in the "devil" but I do believe in illusions that lead us into ignorance and away from the "spiritual" and I except the idea that psychic powers are a part of that illusion."

~LPB

Thats Quite a story! you almost had me thinking it truth!
We burn ZoZobra, here in New Mexico in early Autum, its a Native American celibration for liberty! Very Truly Tammy

Dear DK,

A fantastic story, adventure and experience. I have my share.

Dear DK,

A fantastic story, adventure and experience, I have had my share of the extra ordinary, I could make a movie from them, and perhaps I am. If anyone one is lacking in such experience stay at the Chelsea Hotel in Manhattan for several nights, it is a bit of a portal between realms and is why many artists stay there. This place can be bizarre and a walk in the twilight zone, connections are made and ideas are born. It contains the living essence of all that have been there.

Yet what we talk of is the power to create and destroy illusion. This “lady” was operating deep in the Illusion and would draw in others. They only have power if one becomes entangled in the Illusion that they create.

These "spirits" are an illusion although the experience may be real.

Ultimately they the spirit and the lady are your own creation, but the operative word is "Ultimately".

To seek these Siddhis is not how they are obtained. The very nature of that which would seek to have them is the very reason that they would be deprived of them.

The Siddhis would come naturally as one destroys the degrees of the illusion and of separation. Yet there is a price to pay in the destruction of the final layer of illusion. Being omnipotent etc. is really quite boring hence the illusion of Maya and a true art to stand with one foot on each side, to be both the (1)One and (2)the Many, and (3)one of the many, a bit of a triad of sorts.

At least those are the thoughts that come to mind since it is all in your “head” and the challenge in the game is to keep your head.

This comes from RAW…

Join the HEAD Revolution

Want to contact Higher Intelligence? It's easy, really.

The human brain is an "organ of adaptation" (Freud).

HEAD means Hedonic Engineering and Development.

Using your brain for fun and profit. Efficiently, ecstatically, creatively. Contacting the Higher Intelligence within. That's what HEAD is all about. Having fun with your own HEAD. And getting smarter.

The very fact that one would seek certain things shows they are mesmerized by Maya, trapped in their story of fiction, and that is the very thing that keeps what they seek away from them, the illusion. This is why, for these Siddhi to be realized, they must come without effort.

But all should know that those that read here in this place, your illusions are being destroyed in a very subtle manner as that is the intention.

What did you think was going on here?

As such you are being empowered and the Siddhi will come to you, without effort, just continue read... and engage in The Infinite Play.

In the US we have BURNING MAN, it is out of this world, spirit and nature unleashed. A great gathering of the like minded. The coming together of the infinite minded.

This years theme is, THE GREEN MAN

2007 Art Theme
The Art Theme for Burning Man 2007 is "The Green Man". Our theme concerns humanity's relationship to nature. Do we, as conscious beings, exist outside of nature's sway, or does its force impel us and inform the central root of who and what we are?

There are no rules about how one must behave or express oneself at this event (save the rules that serve to protect the health, safety, and experience of the community at large); rather, it is up to each participant to decide how they will contribute and what they will give to this community. The event takes place on an ancient lakebed, known as the playa. By the time the event is completed and the volunteers leave, sometimes nearly a month after the event has ended, there will be no trace of the city that was, for a short time, the most populous town in the entire county. Art is an unavoidable part of this experience, and in fact, is such a part of the experience that Larry Harvey, founder of the Burning Man project, gives a theme to each year, to encourage a common bond to help tie each individual's contribution together in a meaningful way. Participants are encouraged to find a way to help make the theme come alive, whether it is through a large-scale art installation, a theme camp, gifts brought to be given to other individuals, costumes, or any other medium that one comes up with.

The Burning Man project has grown from a small group of people gathering spontaneously to a community of over 25,000 people.

The impact of the Burning Man experience has been so profound that a culture has formed around it. This culture pushes the limits of Burning Man and has led to people banding together nation-wide, and putting on their own events, in attempt to rekindle that magic feeling that only being part of this community can provide. The Black Rock Arts Foundation promotes interactive art by supporting public art that exists outside the event, and has a special interest in supporting art at regional events.

www.burningman.com OR CLICK MY NAME

Hi DK,
Just dashing into IB, and read your story. I never think of you as scared of anything.

Sometimes, we are 'punished' by the way our mind thinks towards people and objects - when we ascribe a power to them, which is not deserved!

I wonder - if the woman's anger could have been doused with a bucket of water (it worked in the story of Dorothy and the witch in Oz :)

With love,
~ Kate

p.s.
If I should see any 'roaming spirits' - where do you suggest I send them? :))

p.s.s.
true gifts from the heart are always 'free' - no matter what

Dear DK: I've tremendous confidence in your knowledge of the spiritual world. You're very knowledgeable in most areas. Great post for me, as I understand what you're saying.

Word of Caution: When you get such concepts into the western world, one has to be very very careful. You must realize, they are mostly unaware of such things coz of their background, the philosophy and culture in which they grew up. Not their mistake, just as the easterners can be very poor in logic and reasoning when compared.

One needs a stable clear open mind and stable emotions when one is dealing with such topics.

Coming back to the topic, I love the Metaphysical and the Occult. One has to be exposed to such things in the first place and then some first hand experiences will do the trick. I've had my own. I used to do planchet for a while, it was amazing. Most certainly that is true, calling those spirits which are stuck here in this earthly plane coz they can't go into parlok can cause havoc. They draw energies from you and surrounding sources. There are scores of well documented stories. DK, spiritual world or the world of metaphysics and occult is such that where one has to be drawn and attracted to it from inside, thru' the intuition, Unlike the world of science, reason and rationale.

Thank you for your posts and good luck in your endeavors.

I was disappointed to see the entire indigenous religion (voodoo) of many people (Haiti, Benin, Brazil) casually grouped with "black magic." As if generations of these nations are simply practitioners of black magic.

My brain is not wired to appreciate all that stuff that you seem to know DK. That is the reason I normally do not read your contributions. But the burning snowman of Zürich caught my eye.

Growing up in Zürich we always had fun with the “Sechseläuten” weekend. On several occasions in the past the “Böögg” tipped over and never burnt properly and we still had good summers!

About the bizarre dangers in callings spirits! First of all, are you serious?

The mystic and supernatural realms are hard to grasp for some of us “brights” but what are you, DK, making with the following:

The three musketeers of reason, Dawkins, Harris, and Dennett, are passionate advocates of rationality committed to the proposition that religion and the supernatural are essentially unreasonable.

Richard Dawkins (slightly paraphrased):
“If God is a synonym for the deepest principles of physics, what word is left for a hypothetical being who answers prayers, intervenes to save cancer patients or helps evolution over difficult jumps, forgives sins or dies for them? If we are allowed to relabel scientific “awe” as a religious impulse, we have redefined science as religion. So it's hardly surprising many think the two are coming together to ‘converge’."

”Another kind of marriage has been alleged between modern physics and Eastern mysticism. The argument goes as follows: Quantum mechanics, that brilliantly successful flagship theory of modern science, is deeply mysterious and hard to understand. Eastern mystics have always been deeply mysterious and hard to understand. Therefore, Eastern mystics must have been talking about quantum theory all along”.

Does any of this make sense? Permit me to make the following suggestion to everybody:

Please give evolution, astronomy and biology, a chance to explain the world before you believe in someone’s “quantum world”. The need for the supernatural may slowly melt away as you start to understand evolution. It will give you freedom to see the Universe the way it really is, natural rather that supernatural. It will give you your spiritual “awe” through something that exists not something you make up.

And you definitely won’t be punished for trying to understand the world through knowledge rather than speculation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2qezQzfgIY

Well said Skeptisch.

Spiritual people who think they think holistically think they are the openest-minded people around here who walked the earth. What they don't realize is that in trying to interpret science at their spiritual whims and in their practice of quantum abuse and their inability to reason they are in fact the most-close-minded hypocrites of all.

There people who contributed to HQR project are mostly ignorant in science and abused it holistically, especially in the field of computation and quantum computers(I respect David Deutsch's many world's interpretation) extrapolating their pedestrian knowledge of computer science.

------------------------------->

This is a repost of a comment which I made some months ago which makes similar points as the suggestion made by Skeptisch in post 17:

There is nothing wrong with thinking of the Universes in itself as some kind of gigantic intelligent living organism any more that considering earth as a single living being (Gaia Hypothesis Which Deepak Chopra mentions frequently in his many books)

Note, however if you assert the intelligence of the Universe, you cannot deny the brilliance of one of its greatest ideas, “Natural Selection”. (To deny the evidence for natural selection is to insult the intelligence of the universe)For billions of years, the universe has painstakingly designed new structures by a slow process of trial and error. Each innovation in this design is a tiny quantum accident, whose consequences are elaborated by the laws of physics. Some of these accidents work out and others don’t. After billions of years the result is us and everything else. To say world is alive, or universe thinks or to say that the nature is an intelligent creator is only a metaphor. The universe as can already be described excellently with science began little less than 14 billion years ago. The universe that evolves with processing information and the universe that evolves by the laws of physics are one and the same. The two descriptions of “Computational” and “physical” are but complementary ways of capturing the same phenomena. Our Universe can be described as a giant computational quantum computer.

After all what are these “thoughts” of the universe?

Some of the information processing is indeed thought – human thought. Some of the information processing like the digital computation of binary1’s and 0’s can resemble thought. But the vast majority of the information processing in universe is in the collision of atoms, in the motion of matter and light and outside the human thought.

Compared with what is normally called thought, such universal “thoughts” are humble: they consist of elementary particles just minding their own business. But humility is not the same as weakness. Quantum chaos can amplify slight motions until they become a hurricane. The microscopic dance of matter and light has the power to produce not only Humans but every being. The collision of atoms can change the future of the universe.

Science has an n uncomfortable way of pushing the humans beings off the enter stage. But we are unique( as are tiny bacteria or a tree) What makes us unique is the tiny bits of DNA that joins us to monkeys and the habits of language and thought that separates us from them. There is no separate force, a vital force which makes us living, breathing and thinking human beings. We are made of atoms like anything else. It is the way atoms process the information and compute in concert that makes us what we are.

Well thangaraj, there are at least two of us! But why not more?

In each human heart terror survives
The ravin it has gorged: the loftiest fear
All that they would disdain to think were true:
Hypocrisy and custom make their minds
The fanes of many a worship, now outworn.
They dare not devise good for man's estate,
And yet they know not that they do not dare.

Oops!

Here's what I intended to post:

Well Skeptisch I guess the "brights" mind their own business and do what's good for the world silently.

Or, let me quote Yeats from "The Second Coming":

"The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity."

This is a paraphrase of these famous lines by Percy Bysshe Shelley from Prometheus Unbound:

In each human heart terror survives
The ravin it has gorged: the loftiest fear
All that they would disdain to think were true:
Hypocrisy and custom make their minds
The fanes of many a worship, now outworn.
They dare not devise good for man's estate,
And yet they know not that they do not dare.

Skeptisch,

While the great ascended masters teach many things fitting for some... and some teach fictions disguised as religion…

The great descended masters teach that karma (punishment/reward), reincarnation, "evil spirits", and the battle of good and evil are all illusions in the minds of men (because we are all really one being) and anything created out of language other than math is a fiction.

Worms growing in darkness in the most remote place on the planet around thermal vents deep at the bottom of the ocean living off hydrogen sulfide are more bizarre than anything in the human imagination because they are tangible. There are microbes and the worm depend upon each other for existence in what is called a symbiotic relationship. In a symbiotic relationship, two different species live together and each benefits from the partnership. In this case, the worm gives the bacteria a place to stay and the bacteria provide food for the worm.

This worm, called Riftia pachyptila, is an unusual animal because it has no mouth or digestive tract and no apparent way to eat! Instead of eating food like other animals, Riftia allows bacteria to live inside of it and provide its food. The worms have a special feeding sac, called a trophosome, which provides the bacteria with shelter and ingredients to make food. In turn, the bacteria use these ingredients to make food for the worm. The trophosome and the bacteria inside it are so important that they make up over half the weight of this animal. It is the symbiotic relationships in nature that would seem to cast doubt on current evolutionary logic because they would seem to require simultaneous mutations in two separate organisms. If this were to occur it would imply some intelligence that would encompass both organisms.

The current scientific empirical evidence does not support the evolutionary story as told or theorized. Evidence shows that various species etc. appeared fully formed there is no evidence of a progression. This is not to say there were not some subsequent genetic changes. If we look at it objectively it looks more like someone or something was experimenting with different designs.

There is nothing to support the idea that we evolved from lung fish crawling from the sea or even that we are descendants of any of the hominoid species. This notion is as preposterous as conjuring spirits, unless of course one has failed to see the huge gaps. Just because higher organisms have mechanisms found in lower organisms does not prove the higher organisms inherited them from lower organisms. This is based on many faulty assumptions.

But even this falls short of reality, as to how the tangible is born of the intangible in every moment.

I would venture to say that a cause may not need to have actually been manifested (have occurred) in tangible realm to create it’s effect in the tangible realm. In other words many “causes” may only exist in a virtual realm manifesting their effects in reality.

The next possibility, it cannot be ruled out, is that consciousness or some type of field phenomena could affect virtual particles or that which is in a wave state which would affect physical particles.

In other words there may not be a requirement for a physical chain of cause and effect evolution.

Dear Thangu&Nangu: I do appreciate the power of reasoning you've, the rationale you've for most things. Your posts generally are clear to read and comprehend. I love reading your posts on science especially.

I did try to think from your perspective and see what exactly is your Contention and Intention too. Let me see, thangu is it that you consider most of these spiritual here or else where are abusing science with their spiritual concepts??

My understanding of you is:

1.They know very little science, but with their spiritual ideas(whims as you like to call) they are polluting the pure science.

2. They claim to be openminded, but actually are not. Just sissies who would run away at any quality criticism.

3. They believe in all mumbo jumbo, whatever is passed onto them from the stoneage through the religious and other scriptures.

4. Mostly they are delusional and whatever comes to their mind, with no logic but just pure speculation they write what they feel like. Twisting Science to their convenience.

5. If you're spiritual, please stay in your world. Don't come into the world of science and start messing around with the basic principles and laws which govern the world of science.

Did I get you right Thangu&Nangu?? I would really love to read a good summary of yours first, maybe in 4-5 lines as to what exactly is the problem you see. Then, you can continue with your long story. Thanks.

A community devoured by greed, cowardice, and fear. A man persecuted by the ghosts of his painful past. A young woman searching for happiness. In one eventful week, each will face questions of life, death, and power, and each will choose a path. Will they choose good or evil?

In the remote village of Viscos—a village too small to be on any map, a place where time seems to stand still—a stranger arrives, carrying with him a backpack containing a notebook and eleven gold bars. He comes searching for the answer to a question that torments him: Are human beings, in essence, good or evil\? In welcoming the mysterious foreigner, the whole village becomes an accomplice to his sophisticated plot, which will forever mark their lives.

Paulo Coelho's stunning novel explores the timeless struggle between good and evil, and brings to our everyday dilemmas fresh perspective: incentive to master the fear that prevents us from following our dreams, from being different, from truly living.

The Devil and Miss Prym is a story charged with emotion, in which the integrity of being human meets a terrifying test.

«Desafíos» · Pensamientos de Paulo Coelho...

Following paragraphs from my book show why all the three basic systems of knowledge i.e., science, philosophy and mysticism have a place in the universal scheme of things.

Quote

Nothing. Nothingness.

I sometimes wonder why some scientists are bent upon making nothing of what even by common sense we should admit to be everything. Perhaps it would be fairer if they would call that an indescribable something instead of outrightly declaring that as nothing. I could understand a philosopher giving over-importance to nothingness in the days of the rise of the Marxist philosophy in his scheme of things. I can even see that then it was historically inescapable to arrive at such a conclusion as even our theory will show sometime later. But now, when the increasingly rediscovered quantum theory suggests some sort of a very ‘pregnant’ act of observation at the very base of All There Is, this word needed to be used with great reluctance.

One fails to reconcile John. A. Wheeler's advocacy of nothingness as the basis of everything as mentioned in the book Something Called Nothing:

"Wheeler... has been making every effort to prove that, strictly speaking, there is nothing in the world, there never has been anything and never will be anything except absolute vacuum."

or as in the guise of furthering the ideas of Einstein as per the following quotation given in the same book:

"Einstein, above his work and writings, held a long term vision: There is nothing in the world except curved empty space. Geometry bent one way here described gravitation. Rippled another way somewhere else it manifests all the quantities of an electromagnetic wave. Excited at still another place, the magic material that is space shows itself as a particle. There is nothing that is foreign and ‘physical’ immersed in space. Everything that is, is constructed out of geometry."

with what he seems to convey through his writings such as given below:

"Beyond particles, beyond fields of force, beyond geometry, beyond space and time themselves, is the ultimate constituent (of all there is), the still more ethereal act of observer-participancy."

Perhaps some scientists subconsciously surmise that if a word having some sort of spiritual connotations enters their vocabulary one way or the other that would amount to betraying their profession. Or perhaps, by giving in to using such a word they feel sort of one down vis-a-vis the mystics for whom they always feel an unwarranted antagonism otherwise, mostly out of ignorance of what the poor mystics are supposed to stand for, I would say.

While on this point, however, one must admit that rather both the parties are to blame. Both out of partial knowledge of things so to say, look at the other with uncalled for disdain. Both are incomplete in themselves - vis-a-vis the knowledge of the game of life. Scientists’ knowledge - so-called rational knowledge that is - shall always remain incomplete, unfulfilling so far as I can understand it, until they are able to cap it with intuition. Similarly, mystics’ experiences - solely based on intuition - will be of no avail until they are able to buttress those with the science of the day. Or with their rational understanding which is ultimately to mean the same thing.

To say it in an interesting metaphor very close to our lives, the former marry and produce children but do not reach love; while the later fall in love but are unable to marry and produce children. Welding together of the knowledge of both is necessary for the complete understanding and enjoyment of the game of life.

In fact, there is a third party to the picture as well, to make the trio through which the game of life is understood. And that is the philosophers. Below is one of their representative speaking relevant to what we are after here and now:

"Philosophy, as I shall understand the word, is something intermediate between theology and science. Like theology, it consists of speculations on matters as to which definite knowledge has, so far, been unascertainable; but like science, it appeals to human reason rather than to authority... All definite knowledge - so I should contend - belongs to science; all dogma as to what surpasses definite knowledge belongs to theology. But between theology and science there is a No Man's Land, exposed to attack from both sides (by the way, it is being a bit too innocent dear Russell, wouldn't the converse be more true? - author); this No Man's Land is philosophy."

Now, having read the above, let us just ponder over the question given below:

Doesn't the above quotation coupled with what we are already talking about make two things clear for us: That there exist three systems through which there seems to be the possibility of knowing the phenomenon of life in howsoever incomplete a way; and that, well it could be, there might be three distinctive though interacting realms to constitute that phenomenon?

We submit that it is so. That there are three distinctive though interacting realms namely, Mosc, Mopc and Movc: Matter of spiritual category, Matter of physical category, and wedged between them in a way (to keep account of their fight, yes, yes as I will explain it somewhere further) Matter of virtual category as I have named them in the beginning of this book which comprise the game of life. And that, each has its representatives as well as explorers in mystics, scientists and philosophers respectively, who try to know through them the whole game howsoever unsatisfactory the results.

Even otherwise, have you ever wondered why there are three basic systems of knowledge i.e., science, philosophy and mysticism in the world? Science, in which we put things in front of us and examine them; philosophy, in which we examine the things in our heads only; and lastly, mysticism, in which we have a direct experience of things so to say, in which, in other words, we have a direct experience of what ultimately constitutes the things? It is also because of the same above conclusion. That the game of life comprises of three interacting realms i.e., the actual, the virtual and the spiritual and that each one of them is represented as well as explored by one system of knowledge as the things come down evolving to our human levels.

The actual realm or our Mopc is represented as well as explored by science, the virtual realm or Movc or the realm of what constitutes our minds by philosophy and the spiritual realm or Mosc by mysticism (any confusion in this regard may be because of the fact that these realms overlap to some extent as we shall see some where further).

Dear DK, absolutely. Will to control is like riding on a tiger.

first phase = will to grow
second phase = will to control
third phase = suffer and will to know
fourth phase= will to be free

Love, Harb

As a whole

The first half of first phase of global culture cycle belongs to east, the second half to west.

The second phase belongs to west (hollywood).

The first half of the third phase belongs to west (hard-science, computer hard-ware etc)and the second half to east (soft science, soft ware).

The fourth phase belongs to east (sort of wisdom ware lol).

some thoughts..

Dear DK, reading your comments, especially #27... I'm sure that there is more, and I'm so grateful that you're bringing it to the light :)

Dear Richard, I enjoy your posts very much.

Dear Harb, I was born in what they called the East of the West... and I've never really managed to understand this way to part the world... the planet is round and if you swirl a globe and stop it with your finger, there will be an East and a West from any random point, and also some local tradition echoing the one truth ... Maybe the wisdom phase belongs to the wholeness...?

#24 Jean-Francois,

The battle between good and evil exists in the minds of man not as a reality. The real battle is in each individual mind. Yes, fear is the number one emotion behind all the detrimental behavior in the world. It all stems from ignorance. It would help a lot of leaders and even the general population would gain some wisdom and intelligence and overcome it's ignorance.

The general population is living a fiction in their own minds as so do most of the government and corporate leaders.

The fiction on this planet needs to stop; we can do it the hard way or the easy way. It looks like the hard way is what it is going to take to snap everyone into realization.

I would be glad to help, solutions have been presented but are not adopted, and this shows that there is a conflict in the intentions of those that could implement the solutions.

In #35 above, I would add ignorance and open honest communication and a lack of tranparency.

Thank you Aurora.

Dear DK,

#29 "we have to be Intrepid or Fearless"

Thanks for the reminder. The “world needs to become fearless”, is job #1.

I for one am getting tired of the struggle, my own personal one and that on the rest of this planet caused by finite minded players, both corporate and political. It is time to move ahead and be fearless.

The ignorance of others is having an effect on me; in fact it has disrupted my whole life.

It is time to put a stop to this struggle through the dissemination of intelligence, the power of the word to destroy the illusions that imprison us.

The common people of the planet are not yet aware of the games being played and how they are played by 2% of the population with a supporting cast of another 20%.

I think it is time to for the 98% to disempower the 2% convert the bad system design and reclaim their stolen wealth. I think it is time to turn the world’s frustration onto those that help to cause it. While the people themselves are part of the problem, those with the power to help them become more wise and aware fail to do so being that they are so focused on profit. So I say lets take away the profit. The people are going to get a chance to wake up as well. There has been great success in dissipating the world’s energy for change into false targets, it is time to unify this energy for change and direct it at the true cause. It is time to take the reigns of power and put them into the hands of the people where the influence of the egoic mind and special interests will be diminished.

After that we go the hard route, in other words that which will force lucidity. I know I don't have much to lose. In fact a lot of people on the planet don’t, and it is this fact that fuels terrorism. If these people had a life worth living they wouldn’t be bothered with conflict. I also see some families, or other groups in oil rich nations taking all the wealth of the people, this applies to everyone from Saudi Arabia to Nigeria.

Apparently there is this trillion dollar fund being passed around, I think generating wealth from without making a real economic contribution causes a major imbalance, perhaps if not for greed it the financial system could work but some do not have that self discipline.

One of the things that can be implemented planet wide is the end of disease protocols. The United Nations should be on top of this now; I should not have to explain the process. We need Universal Health not Universal Health Care and the Pharmaceutical companies need to change their entire business model. When people come to understand the companies that were doing pharmaceutical research under the guise of WWII they are going to be upset. It is time to make amends. The rapidly executable solutions for poverty, hunger, and disease are available for implementation. Failure to do so will indicate the true intentions of the world bodies. If everyone is so trapped by ignorance and can’t see the path I will be glad to help out, otherwise it is time for Global Revolution.

The second thing is a mandated switch from oil with a Manhattan Project type effort. Although I think most of the solutions stand ready and available for implementation and it is really a matter of simply making the decision.

In case anyone is wondering I do not favor socialism or communism, but an open and free market without manipulation that respects the earth and it’s people.

I happen to be in one of those moods, but hey it generates good speech material. God willing there is going to be abrupt change.

So Harb based on your interplay of forces what will happen in the next 5 years? Any good theory has practical application.

Will the world leadership wake up or will chaos ensue?

I can see DK is the best here, with the best credentials, best work done. He's not into the ego, trying to impress, but is interested in the subject with common sense and humbleness. Really good DK.

Those who are Utopic morons have no clue of basics of human nature. They will live in their la la land and die in suffering why the world could not enter la la land. As long as those monstrous structures are not dismantled, as long as human nature collectively doesn't jump many many rungs, it is impractical. The thin rich population takes away everything, that is the way it is. Survival of the fittest. It is nothing but a sophisticated jungle, with sparsely saints and samaritans scattered in them % wise(amounting to millions) but % is too damn less.

Dear DK,

In response to #29.

It is clear that the very foundation that science is working from is based on erroneous thought and this is why nothing will pan out in a complete manner.

The scientific establishment is also driven and corrupted by corporate and political intentions and motivations.

As we have seen the good and well intentioned scientists are often punished and ostracized, Linus Pauling is a good example. Instead scientists that follow the party line are propped up to promote fictions.

A good example of what you address is that because many scientists do not see the whole or the symbiotic relationships they prescribe antibiotics to destroy bacteria yet fail to address the issue of the replacement of the symbiotic bacteria that play an essential role in human biochemistry.

Instead they create a vicious cycle of imbalance that actually leads to more profits as more disease conditions are produced.

The same applies with the use of many biocides and pesticides.

Scientists serving corporate and political interests are destroying the planet and humanity.

Scientists are helping destroy the planet, but the underlying cause is ignorance, greed, and fear.

There are some good scientists that can help us save the planet and create a life worth living. The people will need to support these scientists directly and bypass the influence of politics and corporations.

Aloha DK

I caught David Talbott and Wallace Thornhill on Coast to Coast. They have written a book Thunderbolts of the Gods with a DVD. Their site is: http://www.holoscience.com/index.php If you not familiar with them you might check them out. love patty

Dear DK,

I enjoyed your first post above. Sorry as I just cannot manage to get through all the replies and comments.

There is no doubt that you experienced a force or energy, but I don't believe in all that evil/devil stuff. I hear, “Evil does not exist,,” even though god may be evil, it’s not real and refers to the god within. The “A Course In Miracles,” (ACIMs) touches on this in great detail. Here’s a copy for anyone who is interested in read it http://www.nhne.com/misc/hlcversion.html

I would tend to agree with Aurora more on the lines of negative energy that one might create. I think Wicca is most likely a primitive practice of energy and creation and as the practice proceeded, people placed importance on the true higher force of the positive such as love and the heart. By far, there is no greater power than that of love.

For example, you were able to disperse the negative force with the positive, such as when you prayed. If you had fed the negative, it would have grown, but you chose to starve the negative as you over powered the force with love found in prayer and/or meditation.

Personally, I think all of this is part of the illusions that we play, as we grow and evolve. What is true is forever alive as reality does not die or disappear, even though it may be hidden within the darkness or ignorance.

In the ACIMs, it states that God keeps the good creations that the children create, but the bad creations disappear, as they never existed. In my understanding, God does not see evil, but only goodness from the children, as the children are only ignorant of who they are. And what God creates is only good and perfect. I think of it like a baby that messes in its diaper, which is pretty, dirty, nasty, and stinky. The parent does not punish the child, but cleans the child up and teaches the child how not to mess in its diapers, eventually learning how to go to the bathroom without getting dirty. And if the child gets a little dirty, at this point after so many cleanings, the child can clean itself to where one day the child will not get dirty. This is a loving and forgiving God with great understanding and mercy – so to speak. What parent would not give these things to their beloved child? This is God for me.

And once the child can go to the bathroom without getting the dirty; the parent goes on to the next lesson. :- )

…. Gotta go as it’s time for lunch, as I could go on and on! This is one of my favorite subjects … God :- )

Love, Char

Sorry - correction: I was not implying that the GOD within is evil, but the god (us) can be evil, as GOD is good. Then again, evil does not exist, but is an illusion of who we really are. Only LOVe exist. Wow.... I am have a very hard time explaining this. Oh well.....

Love, Char

Patty, glad to see you mentioning David Talbott and Wallace Thornhill and Thunderbolts of the Gods. I read the whole plasma cosmology web site, which I think is different from the link you gave. If I had any clout, I would have invited them to the Holistic Quantum Relativity discussion.

Hello Everyone

First things first; Excuse us for a brief interruption. Just wanted to let you all know that we finally succeeded in tracking down our friend WW in Brazil and asked him for his thoughts on the HQR Socratic Dialogue among other things.

Here's what he remarked:

If Chopra is a Newton of nonsensical gobbledygook and quantum spirituality, Matai is an Einstein of relativistic, superlative nonsensical quantum crappy spirituality.

PS: Keep up the good work friends. We enjoy reading your posts. Although, it seems that only the 'handful' of people whose names are mentioned in project summary are the ones who care to participate in the dialogue - like actors in a play who are performing to an empty theater applauding their own work?

Here's part of what I read in the Bhagavad Gita during lunch, which might fit here. Arjuna asked Krishna about freedom in Yoga and Krishna replies something like this ....

Fire, light, day, the moon's brightness,
the six months of the north-turning sun:
dying then, men who are free
go to absolute freedom.

Smoke, gloom, night, the moon's darkness,
the six months of the south-turning sun:
dying then, men of yoga
reach the moon's light and return.

###

I've read something like that in the Gnostic text as well and I believe that the traditional Christians feel this way too and the Buddhist transcend, etc. So I think everyone (or religions) seems to agree, you've got to get it right in this body or do it all over again. At least that's the way it appears to me.

Love, Char

Ref. Post #48

Sample Stats for the thread with 241 Posts.

Holistic Quantum Relativity: Spirituality and Science (241)

Posted by DK Matai at February 9, 2007 01:00 AM

[Contributor : (number of posts) First Post# - Last Post #]

1) DK Matai: (48) 5 – 238
2) Harb(39) : 41 - 239
3) Hgquinn(23): 46 - 222
4) Keith(22): 11 -236
5) Witnesser(21): 8 - 240
6) Syamala(18): 23 - 202
7) Richard Thomas(17): 3 - 146
8) Level7(11): 2 - 165
9) Meike(11): 17 - 166
10) Doodleman(8): 4 - 192
11) Walters(6): 13 - 117
12) Amanda(3): 173 - 221
13) North(2): 62, 150
14) Tapestry(1): 1
15) Char4(1): 9
16) Melissa(1): 152
17) Thangaraj(1): 213
18) Janet (1): 223

Last Post:
241. Posted by Harb on February 20, 2007 08:16 PM

Observations:

Duration of Active Contributions: 11 Days (Feb 9 - Feb 20)
Total Number of Contributors: 18
Number of contributors who made more than one post: 13
Volume Distribution: Top 5 contributors made more than 50 %of the posts.

Dear DK

It is my pleasure to be of some help to the project. You can expect something from me in a day or two.

Thank You

dude

Richard:

I don't know how or from where you draw all this information but it is always so invaluable

D.K.:

Ref. post #47, point #3.

Touché.

Your single mindedness in making a difference would make MLK and MG proud.

Skeptish:

Please do not mistake my comment about the snow man and nice summers to mean I believe it. It's a report on an observed phenomenon. An interesting coincidence.

I'm much more eager though to read your reply to D.K..

Hey LPB,

How are you these days?

I haven't been blogging much, too much work going on for me, but I enjoy it when you pop up on occassion, like the old gang.

I remember during my short Swiss stint in Furigen and Weggis, that the day after Halloween their was some sort of holiday with pagan roots. I remember it was observed by the whole town.

Anyway, it was nice to see you here and hope all is well. That goes for you too Brother Thunderbolt!

Cheers,

Steve

Richards is the king. Paper king! All Illusion anyway. LOL!

Aloha Tapestry

I have bookmarked the plasma cosmology web site. Mahalo I didn't know it was there. I find the information fascinating. love patty

And DK be the Light upon self, we are all Self-Realizing noname:) He/She is the portal to acknowledge we all have matching junk that transcends into matching allurement. love patty

Dude,

I also wish to thank you for the technical assistance.
When I read D.K.'s request I thought he was just being sarcastic.
Opinions are most welcome. Tell us your's anytime, my friend!

Dear D.K.

no-name is a humble alias for a blogger who used to
post here frequently. Too bad they have sided with WW.
this person can be very blunt but a sense of humour resounds oftimes.

C.G. Jung would not have taken your experience lightly.
In 1916 his family was visited by a poltergeist.
I shall quote from "Memories, Dreams and Reflections" the finale of this particular story.

.

Around five o'clock in the afternoon on Sunday the front doorbell began to ring frantically. It was a bright summer day; the two maids were in the kitchen, from which the open square outside the front door could be seen. Everyone immediately looked to see who was there, but there was no one in sight. I was sitting near the doorbell, and not only heard it but saw it moving. We all simply stared at one another. The atmosphere was thick, believe me! Then I knew that something had to happen. The whole house was filled as if there was a crowd present, crammed full of spirits. They were packed deep right up to the door, and the air was so thick it was scarcely possible to breathe. As for myself, I was all a-quiver with the question: "For God's sake, what in the world is this?" Then they cried out in chorus, "We have come back from Jerusalem where we found not what we sought." That was the beginning of 'Septem Sermones'.

Then it began to flow out of me, and in the course of three evenings the thing was written. As soon as I took up the pen, the whole ghastly assemblage evaporated. The room quieted and the atmosphere cleared. The haunting was over.

The experience has to be taken for what it was, or as it seems to have been. No doubt it was connected to the state of emotion I was in at the time, and which was favorable to parapsychological phenomena. It was an unconscious constellation whose peculiar atmosphere I recognized as the numen of an archetype. "It walks abroad, it's in the air." The intellect,of course, would like to arrogate to itself some scientific, physical knowledge of the affair, or, preferably, to write the whole thing off as a violation of the rules. But what a dreary world it would be if the rules were not violated sometimes.

("It walks abroad, it's in the air!" Faust, Part 2, Goethe)

Dear thangaraj: I think you got scared of my questions and ran away towards the vegetable market. You and Skeptic are closed in your box of science. LOL! Anything other than that frightens you to the bones. You don't have a clue to the mysteries which science cannot explain.

continued from Jung:

From that time on, the dead have become ever more distinct for me as the voices of the Unanswered, Unresolved, and Unredeemed; for since the questions and demands which my destiny required me to answer did not come to me from outside, they must have come from the inner world. These conversations with the dead formed a kind of a prelude to what I had to communicate to the world about the unconscious: a kind of pattern of order and interpretation of its general contents.

When I look upon it all today and consider what happened tome during the period of my work on the fantasies,it seems as though a message had come to me with overwhelming force. There were things in the images which concerned not only myself but many others also. It was then that I ceased to be myself alone, ceased to have the right to do so. From then on, my life belonged to the generality. *The knowledge I was concerned with, or was seeking, still could not be found in the science of those days.* I myself had to undergo the original experience, and, moreover, try to plant the results of my experience in the soil of reality; otherwise they would have remained subjective assumptions without validity. It was then that I dedicated myself to the service of the psyche. I loved it and hated it, but it was my greatest wealth. My delivering myself over to it, as it were, was the only way by which I could endure my existence and live it as fully as possible.

Today I can say that I have never lost touch with my initial experiences. All my works, all my creative activity, has come from those initial fantasies and dreams which began in 1912, almost 50 years ago. Everything that I accomplished in later life was already contained in them, although at first only in the form of emotions and images.

It is equally a grave mistake to think that it is enough to gain some understanding of the images and that knowledge can here make a halt. Insight into them must be converted into an ethical obligation. Not to do so is to fall prey to the power principle, and this produces dangerous effects which are destructive not only others but even to the knower. The images of the unconscious place a great responsibility upon a man. Failure to understand them, or a shrinking of ethical responsibility, deprives him of his wholeness and imposes a painful fragmentariness on his life.

.

Dear Harb,

You are standing on the shoulders of giants.
I can't help but think of you while reading this.
Hope you don't mind me saying so. Cheers! Keith~

Dear Lawrence,

Thank you, I am a bit like Inspector Clouseau and stumble upon things as a result of my intentions, but through no deliberate plan of action. I would liken our search for HQR and my search to understand the workings of the universe to be like the search for the Pink Panther which when found will resolve the world’s pain and suffering.

I just follow the bread crumbs but I don't know who is dropping them. I am very dependant on individual experts that focus on specific fields of information which when all the fields of information are combined the resulting product can be new meaning and understanding.

The mystery of life is all about finding the clues that have been left for us to find.

P.S. Your LPB tends to throw me off and I keep forgetting who you were or are of course like all of us I often forget who I am as well but I am eventually re-minded. Whenever I forget who I AM I forget who everyone else is, if you know what I mean.

If we can accept being a likeness of god; why do we deny ourselves that we are also, the likeness of evil? This denial, in my view; sets a stage of self-deception, and manipulation of positive-intention.

I fight the demons within often; yes, they are anvils of fear, doubt, and so on. But, until I can embrace the fear, how can I shed the thin-skin of fear? WE must learn to love, both our good side, and our evil side... otherwise, we become unbalanced, trying to stop one, and empower the other??

WE look all around us; and in the more modern/richer countries....addictions are so prominent, it's construed as a normal part of life.

HOW can we hope to reach ALL; when half the ALL; is under the influence of "something" or other, of mind-altering substances?

Purify the body, and the mind purifies itself...

One thing which must change, is accountability of synthetic drug manufacturers, and alchohol makers; for the damages, which their "product" produces!!

But, we don't/won't.. will we? These things pollute the body and mind... and in my view; unless half the world drops their bottle, their needle, their pills... we may never find the liberty... of a peaceful race of humanbeings on this planet, in our lifetime....

"The time will come, in our very near future, when one more person envisions a peaceful world and, with that seemingly tiny action, the scales are tipped. The storm clouds disappear and a new world, the world that we deserve to live in as our right of birth, opens up before us.
It will be like a miracle ... but it's not really a miracle. It's only us having changed our thoughts."

From: The Highest Light Teachings

Dear Richard and D.K.,

M.L. King Jr. was a social reformer, preacher, learned philosopher,
and an emotional speaker who not only worked on himself
but served and helped huge groups of people.

Had he waited to follow the calls or the inner voice
(which he most certainly believed came from God) how
long, how long would his race had to wait for
justice to be served and meted out equally?

Are we to believe that at his young age he had
already fully reformed himself? Would you call him a Master?

My question today is, when the war comes to town
is one to run off to find solitary confinement, pray, meditate and generally master one's own animal instincts
before taking to the streets to ask the invaders for forgiveness?

Do we have an obligation to our loved ones, a duty perhaps?
Who here puts a higher value on private salvation
than they do on the redemption of the masses?

This question of social responsibility is a sticky one.
It's a lot easier to work on myself when the war
is going on away over yonder, far from my neighborhood.

As a matter of fact, I cannot sit here and say
what I would do under different, dangerous circumstances.
I've never been in that arena...not even close!
Of course, I thank God my last life didn't go so bad
as to have to live again in such an inhospitable
environment.

Would I pick up extra arms and defend my territory
to the death?
Would I gather up the sheep and head for the hills?
Or would I meet the enemy in the street with cheek turned,
clasped hands and bended knee?

I can honestly say I do not know what I would do.
I don't like the last choice, that's for sure!

I lot of folks have died to preserve the peace that
now reigns in my place of residence.
I don't know about you, but I am glad they did what they had to do
and to those who fought for my freedom I am very grateful.

The only thing I have to fight this morning is traffic.

Over and out, unquestionably. Keith~

Dear Keith #62. Exactly. Which is why I have named chapter 5 of my book "Shoulders of the Giants."

Dear Aurora #34. As we, so our global culture as a whole, so our planet and finally so our universe.

Beginning from root chakra we evolve to navel chakra to (physicl)heart chakra to head chakra (left hemisphere of our brain +right hemisphere of our brain) to (spiritual) heart chakra. In the process our "I" shifts through these chakras.

Now, while root and navel chakra is in the center of our 'axis', physical heart chakra is to its left - where our physical heart is situated. Similarly, left hemisphere of our brain part of our head chakra is to its left while right hemisphere part is to its right. Lastly, spiritual heart chakra is again to its right (spiritual heart is said to be two digits to the right of our physical heart.)

I identify the chakras which are to our left with west and which are to our right with east.

Now I would say that our global culrure's "I" has shifted to spiritual heart chakra and that means to east.

When our "I" shifts thus, this does not mean that it has divided us or the global culture or the plnet into east and west, it just shows that now we as a whole are being governed by or from the perspective of this "I".

Now the global culture is slowly going towards being governed by its spiritual heart, by wisdom of the spiritual heart, even by wisdom of the east, which is in fact why people like Deepak Chopra and DK of the east are being increasingly listened to.

Explnation may seem difficult to understand but then not all can see themselves dying as a mineral and being born as a plant, dying as a plant and being born as an animal...as Rumi did.

wow!! quite the spooky story! thankgod i am reading this in a lab during day time with people around me!
lol.. i dunno these ghost stories scare me.. there was a time I didn't believe in souls and then it wouldnt scare me at all.. but the more I believe in all these energies, and souls.. the possibilities of a ghost come out more..

but I wonder if that ghost could do any harm to you? In general, when I watch scary movies, I really wonder why a ghost -who is non-material would have anythign to do with the material world? especially why would it want u killed, aren't u gonna become a ghost then?

anyways, those r movies.. but in real life.. does black magic really exist? in the sense can people really influence spirits to do something evil? I really don't get how.

oh and yea, what about you yourself being strong? can someone really effect you negatively if you believe otherwise?

Richard, 5 years is too small a period for this scale. However one could know if one were to go into more details. But in general as I have said many times, we are passing the Age of Reason and entering the Age of Intuition/wisdom, in which things will increasingly tilt towards eastern countries especially India and China, the lands of Vedas, Buddha and Lao Tze. In this Age the emphasis will be on knowing how to live better than knowing for the same of knowing as in the past.

Here is a synchronicity, a few days ago I was standing in the very same Pulpit Martin Luther King spoke from many times in his life, including annual Lent, his last, sermon 2 weeks before his death.

It was a bit surreal and the thought kept coming to mind that it was time to finish what was started.

I was there because a friend of mine will be speaking from that Pulpit on Easter and our intention at this moment is to stream it live to the whole planet if the divine is willing. So I am getting everything set up.

Soon there will be Internet Protocol Television channel streaming the voice of spirit to rise above the ego chatter and it will engage the world and politick.

Dear DK #65,

Thank you for your wisdom and being all that you are.

I didn't really know much about Voltaire, so I went and read up on him, I guess we are very similar in nature and intent. Yet, I am really just a passenger in this vehicle what drives it I do not know but the divine has an open invitation.

I have studied Thomas Paine a bit thanks to my mother, (The Age of Reason) he managed to instigate a Revolution in the United States but was sort of edited out of history because of his notions regarding the dogma of religion, yet he could not be erased.

I do suppose that this time, rather than blood shed, I see mouse clicks and economic incentives, and since, when I am lucid, all is my self I will strive to not create any losers and shall have mercy on all my souls.

For as I have written here before:

Justice is not about persecution, prosecution, or revenge, Justice is about bringing the truth to light, for every injustice is born from a lie.
~Myself

When only truth be known, and the minds fictions no longer entertained, injustice is seldom to be found.

I don't really seek to transform the world but to create a better experience for all of my self, not one void of challenge or conflict, but one absent of violence and needless pain and suffering.

Yes, as I transform my own self, so I transform the world.

I thank all my teachers, who are everyOne I have ever met or read, or listened to.

(R)evolution (Our) Evolution

Mouse clicks, economic incentives and no losers everyone wins, and so it was written, and hence came about.

Dear DK and Dude:

Great idea on the stats for this project, as I have so enjoyed DK's posts and his wealth of knowledge.

However, I respectfully ask that you please leave my name off any lists. For me, my personal information is of precious value and I request that it remain confidential.

Thanks much,
Char

all that glitters may not be gold but it certainly is reflective of the light...

Ref. 37. "I think it is time to for the 98% to disem