Dear Deepak:

I would be curious, (with no ulterior motive) as to what YOU believe about Jesus. Will you reveal that in these posts?

In all sincerity, I respect you as a scholar of the great traditions and faiths, and have just been curious about this....

norm

Whatever the facts are about the true, historical Jesus the myth or archetype of Jesus is alive and well. Seekers may access his spirit in some form the same way Buddha's or Krishna spirit may be activated. I for one believe he lived, had family and performed miracles. More than likely he died and a non-physical representation of himself appeared to his followers.
Todd

Well, after 2,000 years the mystery of the real Jesus will finally be revealed. Thanks Deepak, the Pope and the thousands of scholars have nothing on you!

Hi Norm, this will be a fun one.

Steve

Well Dee part one is quite wordy, But Im sure we'll all get to the next plato, I assume is Part Duex or is it three? Blessings to All
V

Dear Deepak,

I think what is crucial is most of the church published and ordained material was edited to give the Church and priests power.

If we look at those texts found that were never edited, we find a totally different picture.

It would appear that there was a Jesus that was adverse to organized religion and the Church so they killed him. But as always this gave his teachings much more power. So over time they perverted his teachings, those that disempowered the Church. They were twisted to create a fiction, a story used to influence and control the behavior of the common people and keep them ignorant and needy. There methods were clever they made the life force (sex) evil, using this created guilt and shame, and then sold for a price redemption and a ticket to heaven. Quite a racket I don’t doubt all sacred knowing has been distorted in all the religions.

Click my name and read the Anti-Christ exposed

one of the most contraversial documents on the Internet that is a threat to many of indoctrinated fictions.

"I will devote a post to each argument, although entire books go into extensive detail about them."

There is nothing new in your post.

When you talk about "Real Jesus" you seem to be hell bent on abusing "history" as you had abused "science" in the past.

Good luck.

Here is another good one On the rise Apostasy.

Click my name.

Excellent post Dr. Chopra! O yeah; the good stuff is coming now!

Also, thank you for the autographed copy of "How to Know God" (one of my favorites), that a very dear member of our IB community sent to me first-class mail all of the way from Tampa, with pictures too:

her compassionate generosity is breathtaking, as likewise your gentle and profound wisdom is inspiring.

A loving thank you to you Dr. Chopra, and a very special and heartfelt thank you to you too Kate.

Peace

These are all part of the Infinite Play Lethal text series.

Lethal to the worlds fictions.

Including:

Easter the resurrection of a truth lost

Click my name and check it out inlcluding the never seen before E8 Lattice Easter Eggs

Interesting topic, something I've wrestled with forever - the whole question of faith. It's Jesus here, but you could conceivably extend this debate to most religious texts. If their historical validity is questionable – and in truth, all history is, to some extent, since we can't go back in time to verify it personally – does that also put in doubt the accompanying religious beliefs & dictums? If Christianity holds that one of Jesus' teachings was to turn the other cheek, how relevant is the question of whether there was a Jesus and that he indeed rose from the dead, etc?

One of the reasons Vedanta appeals to me is that its tenets stand at arm's distance from historical facts. For instance, the great battle of Mahabharatha may be the setting for the Bhagavad Gita, but it has relatively little to do with the appeal of its teachings.

I think the reason we get so caught up in the historical background of our religions is because we need to prove our religion is 'right'. Hey, my authority figure (insert prophet/God/Son_of_God) pulled off this miraculous feat (rose from the dead, levitated, spoke in tongues, etc), so my religion must be the RIGHT one. Taken to extremes, this gives me justification to kill/plunder/burn you, but on an everyman/everyday level, I just feel righteous/good/morally superior.

How 'bout we just say: "these are my beliefs/fictions and those are yours". No, instead it's "this is my Truth and I'm going to stuff it down your throat".

Thanks to Norm :), I have been doing some reading of and about the Bible when I have a few minutes.
According to what I have found out so far,
there are some really, really good truths revealed by Jesus, but the level of truth declined percipitously, it seems, around A.D. 325 at the Council of Nicaea when Christanity was adopted by, you guessed it a politian!, and have been misrepresented ever since. Wonder why the Bible can now be used to justify just about any point of view?(That is just a rhetorical ?--I don't want to start an argument) I have not read any of the Gnostic Gospels yet, but will when I have time.

I am looking forward to this discussion in an open and honest way.

Bonnie

Indeed sWORDSman and Bonnie, nice thoughtful posts you two.

Interesting stuff 'The Antichrist Exposed' Richard. I was just musing last night thinking about how 'The Antichrist' whom many religionists are expecting to be the dictator of a one-state world, is actually the physical deification of our each and every selfish ego, and the physical representation of that selfishness is money, hence the barbarism that accompanies economic globalization (‘globalization’ which IS the one-state world 'government,' you know, the 'free'-trade that actually leads to poverty and misery for countless billions, while the top 1-5% harbor ungodly amounts of the money and claim to natural resources). As exemplified in this link Heather provided in the Open Thread: http://[DELINKER]www.nytimes.com/2007/03/29/business/29tax.html?_r=1&oref=slogin, of which I have wrote of all too often about before, as you too have frequently pointed out yourself.

Also, about that sex/sin stuff, yes it is quite interesting that the primary issues the religious ‘evangelicals,’ ‘fundamentalists,’ here in America raise about domestic politics is sex-centered, gays and abortion (the unrelated ‘creationism as science’ also ever lurking about of course), and the abortion ‘thing’ is actually not about sex per se, then we start getting in to the state imposing the beliefs of some on all women in particular . . .

And well, I don’t want to open this ‘can of worms’ on this thread . . .

Have your read “How the Republicans Stole Christmas” by Bill Press, I am almost done, and it is a good quick and easy read, you should check it out iffin you ever have the time, also, this following link is a nice mid-length essay “Neoconservative radicalism has reshaped our political spectrum” http://[DELINKER]www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2007/03/29/brooks/index.html

and if you do read it tell me your thoughts.

Ok, got a little long-winded here sorry.

Anyway . . .

Peace all

Deepak:

I, too, would seriously like to hear your input in this discussion

Love

Bonnie

You know the past may not be as important as the idea that all these great masters have returned and are walking the planet in the flesh now.

When the great battle that has already began in the minds of men, reaches a crescendo they will draw the worlds attention and their love and truth will bring Peace.

I am looking forward to Deepak's second post.

In Revelations its told that the Loin and the Lamd will Rest together, It also says that Christ Came as the Lamb and returns as the Lion
V

All teachers come with the same story, Why is that? Who has given them Names?
Someone once told me "The answer is in the Question".
V

One thing is for sure Richard! If reincarnation exists most or all of the great spiritual masters of the past are most certainly alive (now) in the flesh.
Todd

Awaiting Question four Dee......
V

Well ... I have to comment on this one as I so dearly love Jesus and I do believe in Jesus. However, my understanding comes from Spirit regarding what the Bible really means and who God really is. My beliefs are no different than other Christians, but I think are somewhat expanded from the norm, as far as I can tell. I don’t go to church because I could never get into it all, even as child. Let me try and explain what I am attempting to say.

Five years ago, I experienced incredible pain, while I prayed to God in the name of Jesus Christ to take my pain away, as I could not stop crying. Immediately, I experienced the Comforter and stopped crying, as I began to wonder where the pain went all of a sudden.

From that day forward, I have had a more direct guidance from Spirit. I was immediately told to read the Bible by angelic singing, as well as what I believe to be the voice of God (or Self as I later understood it - all the same as we are but a vessel of the One). I read the KJV study the Bible completely in less than 7 months (3000 pages!) and told God that I was done and I asked, now what? I was told to read the Bible a total of 3 times, so I cried with great disappointment. So I read it 2 more times, as I was almost afraid to ask, now what? I was told to the read the Bible every day - every morning, every night. Oh well, I said ok. So I do.

I was also told to be a Christian, as I was pondering upon the path to take, since I am very fond of Vedic knowledge. However, I still read all different types of scriptures to expand on what God is. I am halfway done with my 4th Bible reading and I am beginning to understand that it's more of a coming to know the truth about the God of all creatures and how much that God loves every one equally and that same. For me, the Bible assist me in reaching deeper within myself to find the truth.

What I really wanted to say, as I did not mean to go in to all that stuff above, but it was more of a background for those who do not know me ... is I was told by Spirit in the beginning of my relationship with God (or opening) "My Word has been changed." I cannot say if this was referring to the Bible or what, as I do believe in the Bible, but I think there is a lot missing and many things not written exactly as was. There are truths that we do not know, which can only be experienced by a direct relationship with our God. In my relationship with Self, God does laugh a lot too, especially at the world and his (for me he) children. And a lot of etc.s that I don’t' have time to go into as it is almost time for lunch :-)

Anyway, I had read somewhere that Jesus went to India to be taught and to teach during the time he was missing in the Bible. I think it is very interesting that Krishna is almost identical to Jesus. In fact, I believe there are consistencies in all the religious texts that we have available to us as a whole - and what is the same in each different text or experience must be the truth as all or many have experience it. However, there are still many things that we have not experienced, i.e., or gone as far as we could or should or can. Only lies are not shared, nor are lies real.

I believe in a real God. A God that loves everyone equally and the same. A God that cares for all regardless of religion or race. This is the God of Love, which has been so misunderstood.

Certainly, I believe that what I hear is both God and Jesus who are one and the same. And if Jesus became a God by uniting with God and we are as Jesus, then we are unrealized Gods. To know who we really are, is to know God or visa-versa. In the Bible, Jesus states many times that God is within us and we are within God - one and the same. I think many Christians do not fully understand what the "Kingdom within" really means. I am not trying to pick on Christians, but it is who I am and the religion that I understand the best, even though I could as easily been a Buddha or Vedic Teacher, etc. So I follow was has been laid out for me personally by God.

Personally, for me all my lessons from Spirit have been about love. Not only am I to love God with all my heart, soul, and body, but I am to love others as myself - as God loves.. I know I have a lot of work in this area and I am not claiming to be anything but a child trying to learn from the Father, even though I was told a few nights ago that I was a baby. Oh well, I will look on the positive side of that as my lessons will be easier :-)

I know this post must sound so bizarre, but that's the way it is with me and it is my truth, which is always subject to change as I grow to understand more about Self.

Gotta go and thanks Deepak! I love you! Thank you for all you do for the many.

Love, Char

Tammy my take on the Lion and the Lamb which is included in one's material is that The lion represents the ego, and the Lamb spirit.

The conflict between them will resolve with the application of truth and wisdom which lead to love.

Good points Craig, the ego is very much antichrist when it's fictions about reality are permitted to run rampant.

Char4

Your post makes perfect sense to me. It is through reading other texts that have helped me to come to a more perfect understanding of the truths revealed by Jesus. I am still a long way from getting there but---gives me something more interesting and stimulating to do than argue politics or argue about who is right,Rush Limbaugh or the hollywood celebs, Republicans or Democrats, blah blah, which in the long run is totally irrelevant.

I get a little irreverent sometimes when I see the irony in a lot of things, but it helps me laugh..and sometimes that is best we can do.

When we get to at least one truth that "What is good for you is also good for me." maybe we'll stop arguing and solve some problems in a meaningful way. I actually believe that.

Love

Bonnie

Bonnie,

Your post made me smile. I think we all have our different dharmas or parts to play and roles to fulfill. And I would really like to see peace and all as one - but I have much work to do in this area.

Love, Char

Chocolate Jesus exhibit canceled after uproar
NYC gallery inundated with angry calls ahead of display during Holy Week ....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11669242?GT1=9145

I heard many times, "Eat the heart of God," and I love chocolate!

You'll know his children by thier love for one another.

So I've mailed this Turkish princess, the first and second laws of love, she writes me back;
'Marek! get a life!'

So I wrote her, 'tnx, dil.. I'm doing my best!
Did you read your horoscoop today? grz, marek'

Deepak, if it wasn't for this Russian princess today in the sauna, i'd give up on spirituality, a long time ago!, got god knows how much freakin' dutch morons cases on my desk and, I maybe not get my princess, but I'm gonna win em all!

F*'em! all! post a dutch verdict soon,
(hope that the judges will be female..;)

with love, passion,
marek

If my Dutch lawyer screws up, i've send him a mail, he gonna be writing a lot with..

nevermind me,

http://view.tonyrobbins-email.com/?ffcb10-fe911771736d047576-fe5c12747167027b7710-fefb1774736205

buzka,
marek

Hi Deepak:

Is there any truth to what some historians claim that Jesus spent most of his unaccounted years between the ages of 12 thru 30 in India gaining his wisdom and enlightenment from Indian spiritual masters?

Love
Avtar

Dr. Chopra,
i want(ed) to mail this princess, a song,
I think it can make a difference, eventhough the..
micro/macro, she's too cute, not to..

can't find it in google/or you tube, not mentioning the akasic field,

oceans of love, in every problem thee is a.. i know..
ltz,
love, passion
marek

I found that in all text if lead by your heart, understanding is there, We are Purnti, All.
Purnti tanslated is "Pure Heart"
V

I'm no biblical scholar. As I like to tell the Mormons when they stop by and offer me a copy of the 3rd book of the Bible: "I haven't read the first two yet".

The problem with Christianity is humanity. Don't throw the book out with the bath water, but realize that this and all religions have been filtered through the human ego. Think Monks spending their whole lives writing and rewriting texts. That is where 'Only way to God is through me' comes from. I think that line has been the most detrimental to Christianity and has caused the many back lashes to it including the current one. (I much prefer 'judge not', a great early Bob Marley song if you can find it). And like all 'lashes', backwards or forewords, somebody is going to try and make money off it.

Christianity in the US has not been sold well. The best they can come up with is billboards saying 'Jesus is Love'. The common person does not understand this. If they sit home at night, and their life is full of sorrow or pain, and they reached a place where they feel like they can't go on, and all they have is the 'Jesus is love' billboard or images of people being saved that they witnessed while channel surfing they might try and accept the fact that all they have to do is ask Jesus for help and they will feel him, like a rush, maybe like a feeling when they drink too much and smoke allot of pot.
It doesn't happen like that.
Everyone has their own path, but I became a better 'Christian' through Buddhism. Buddha was never thought to be a God until after he died and various sects developed. By the time it got to Japan it was samurai (Yeah, I’ll meditate, but I'm keeping this sword over my lap). All Buddha did was sit under a tree, which is really all any of us has to do.

This looking for facts to prove or disprove. Well, people who need that perhaps are not the most faithful. I remember a favorite english teacher tell us the bible can be summed up with 'Have Faith". I think that is true of all religions. But I do believe that the current doubting in this information age will lead to some good ‘looking inward’ situations for all people.

I hope that after I save the world that people 2000 years from now don't waste time and money digging up my trailer site to find remnants of my laptop. Get on with your lives! Go help some old person with her yard work. Go teach a kid to read. Stop digging around here! Get out of my yard!

As for Jesus not smiling or laughing, well, being somebody who also has a very dry sense of humor I can attest that if 'The poor you will have with you always, how long are you going to have me?' wasn't a joke by a man who knew he was soon to die to a man who soon will betray him then I don't know what is.

Marek, Can I get that CheeseCake recipe, Ive been looking for a good one
V

Interesting comments, as I enjoyed them all. I believe that Jesus is within us all, just like Buddha is, same with my father or anyone else who has passed on from this world (or maybe just the enlightened are with us?)

Within the last month, I have been hearing after several years of hearing that God is within me, that Jacob is within me, as well as Rachael, i.e, "You are Jacob," "You are Rachel." This tells me that we are all truly ONE - all of us, as all that was before us and has died of this physical world is still alive and with us now, i.e., the part that never ever dies. So maybe these two have found enlightenment and do not have to come back again? I don't know that part yet or how it works.

And when I hear, I hear "We" many times, such as "We love you," and "We love all," and "All love God," and "All love you." It like deep within all of us, we really love each other very much and we all love God. I know, it sound strange, at least to me to hear that my so-called enemy loves me, but I can tell you this, it makes me think about it as my thought change, as I think really? That's interesting. Then I ask myself, if we all love each other, then why do we act like we don't? That's when I think of the term blindness that is used in the Bible, or ignorance which is a term the Vedas use or not being aware or knowing ourSelf - who we really are.

I think we are Love, as God is Love, but I just don't know how to share it or be it, but I am trying to understand and practice if I can remember that I am really loved by the one who seems to hate me or dislike me and I really do love the one who abuses me or ignores me as if I do not exist. This is just so amazing for me to comprehend. I think this is the way God sees us, as we are without all the veils we put on.

Well time to go home. Hope everyone has a good weekend.

Love, Char

God is Love and
Love is God

Correction to my number 8 post, that was overnight express, very expensive that is to say; just keeping the books straight!

Thank you Kate!

Char. Very nice, very nice indeed!

Peace

Sorry, I couldn't resist...

Plastic Jesus Lyrics

Well, I don't care if it rains or freezes,
Long as I have my plastic Jesus
Riding on the dashboard of my car
Through all trials and tribulations,
We will travel every nation,
With my plastic Jesus I'll go far.

{Refrain}
Plastic Jesus, plastic Jesus
Riding on the dashboard of my car
Through all trials and tribulations,
We will travel every nation,
With my plastic Jesus I'll go far.

I don't care if it rains or freezes
As long as I've got my Plastic Jesus
Glued to the dashboard of my car,
You can buy Him phosphorescent
Glows in the dark, He's Pink and Pleasant,
Take Him with you when you're travelling far

{Refrain}

I don't care if it's dark or scary
Long as I have magnetic Mary
Ridin' on the dashboard of my car
I feel I'm protected amply
I've got the whole damn Holy Family
Riding on the dashboard of my car

{Refrain}

You can buy a Sweet Madonna
Dressed in rhinestones sitting on a
Pedestal of abalone shell
Goin' ninety, I'm not wary
'Cause I've got my Virgin Mary
Guaranteeing I won't go to Hell

{Refrain}

I don't care if it bumps or jostles
Long as I got the Twelve Apostles
Bolted to the dashboard of my car
Don't I have a pious mess
Such a crowd of holiness
Strung across the dashboard of my car

{Refrain}

No, I don't care if it rains or freezes
Long as I have my plastic Jesus
Riding on the dashboard of my car
But I think he'll have to go
His magnet ruins my radio
And if we have a wreck he'll leave a scar

{Refrain}

Riding through the thoroughfare
With his nose up in the air
A wreck may be ahead, but he don't mind
Trouble coming, he don't see
He just keeps his eyes on me
And any other thing that lies behind

Plastic Jesus, Plastic Jesus
Riding on the dashboard of my car
Though the sun shines on his back
Makes him peel, chip, and crack
A little patching keeps him up to par

When pedestrians try to cross
I let them know who's boss
I never blow my horn or give them warning
I ride all over town
Trying to run them down
And it's seldom that they live to see the morning

Plastic Jesus, Plastic Jesus
Riding on the dashboard of my car
His halo fits just right
And I use it as a sight
And they'll scatter or they'll splatter near and far

When I'm in a traffic jam
He don't care if I say Damn
I can let all sorts of curses roll
Plastic Jesus doesn't hear
For he has a plastic ear
The man who invented plastic saved my soul

Plastic Jesus, Plastic Jesus
Riding on the dashboard of my car
Once his robe was snowy white
Now it isn't quite so bright
Stained by the smoke of my cigar

God made Christ a Holy Jew
God made Him a Christian too
Paradoxes populate my car
Joseph beams with a feigned elan
From the shaggy dash of my furlined van
Famous cuckold in the master plan

Naughty Mary, smug and smiling
Jesus dainty and beguiling
Knee-deep in the piling of my van
His message clear by night or day
My phosphorescent plastic Gay
Simpering from the dashboard of my van

When I'm goin' fornicatin
I got my ceramic Satan
Sinnin' on the dashboard of my Winnebago Motor Home
The women know I'm on the level
Thanks to the wild-eyed stoneware devil
Ridin' on the dashboard of my Winnebago Motor Home
Sneerin' from the dashboard of my Winnebago Motor Home
Leering from the dashboard of my van

If I weave around at night
And the police think I'm tight
They'll never find my bottle, though they ask
Plastic Jesus shelters me
For His head comes off, you see
He's hollow, and I use Him for a flask

Plastic Jesus, plastic Jesus
Riding on the dashboard of my car
Ride with me and have a dram
Of the blood of the Lamb
Plastic Jesus is a holy bar

Thanks Dr Chopra for another thought provoking post.

I have to admit I have always been fascinated by the obsession of people to discover The Real Jesus.

Fascinated, because I believe it to be irrelevant.

The Message of Christianity is one of Love, Compassion and Tolerance. Much like Buddhism, Jainism, Hinduism, Taoism, etc etc.

It seems to me that Jesus Christ, whether you believe him to be a role model, a manifestation of The Divine, a rebellious zealot, or even not a real historical figure, has become more important than the Message itself.

In general, people (Christians) worship him as a symbol / figurehead, yet do not put anywhere near as much effort into living the Message.

I wonder if that is a mis-interpretation of John 14:6 "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me"

I wonder if that really means "through Jesus as a role model" (i.e. by living the Message of Christianity), rather than by worship, or idolatry of his image / physical presence on this world.

Sure, we should honour him (especially Christians), but looking at the kind of man he is portrayed to be, would he consider the kind of worship he receives today an honour? Or would he consider that merely a symbolic gesture?

Wouldn't the greatest honour be to live our own lives with Love, Compassion and Tolerance?

Very nice White Charger

Maybe we could rewrite John 14:6 to read:

No one comes to the Father except by the way of the truth and the life. I will find that way in me.

Language is a funny thing.

Bonnie

The Christian Church is a political entity that was created and has nothing to do with the original esoteric teachings of Jesus. In fact the Church and it's political masters are the very same ones that crucified Jesus. Let us not be fooled. They have simply stolen what Jesus created along with an endorsement that he never gave, and then perverted it to their own benefit for control and aggrandizement. The members are led to believe the fiction of a great future in heaven, a future that never comes, as their reward for living a mundane life of lack.

No doubt the Islamic Church is also a political entity contrived to keep a few in power and riches (mostly oil) while the rest suffer having been led to believe that their rewards for their living as an indentured servitude will come in heaven. Here again we have the works of the Great prophet of God Muhammad being twisted and used for political gain and power and control. I would also like to note that the word infidel was a word intended for those dominated by the egoic mind and therefore prone to irrational destructive behavior and by the sword of truth they should be brought wisdom and awareness and their fictions destroyed.

The intention of the masters was to create Heaven on Earth, as I imagine that also to be Divine intention. Not to create a hell with hope of a heaven that does not exist as a place with universal coordinates. Their hope was to eliminate the fictions of the world born of ego and the separation from God, the truth that we are all one and connected. It was their intention that we may live in truth which leads to happiness and abundance.
Disclaimer: This is not directed at any specific church and it’s membership, although many live a life of hypocrisy. Many churches do a great deal of good with charity and the support of brotherhood and forgiveness, understanding and love, these things should be preserved. It is the Church and those that would use it as a political machine of control and manipulation and the propagation of fictions that must be dissolved by us becoming aware.

I agree that "Churches" of any religion end up being less interested in spreading the Message of their respective Faiths, and more in their own self-preservation, self-endorsement, and the growth of their own power and sphere of influence.

And they do so first by making themselves self-appointed guardians of the integrity of the Message, and then perverting the Message to support their own agendas.

I am not sure they start that way, as you imply Richard, or whether it is simply a fact of any organisation: the drive for self-preservation.

Which applies equally to man-made socio-political organisations, and to organisations of cells, organs etc into species and individuals within that species.

It is part of the natural evolution of things, first to seek their own survival, and then when that is secure, to expand that survival instinct to include other individuals, species, social organisations etc.

The problem comes when the survival instinct persists longer than it needs to, and turns into xenophobia (in its broadest sense), or simply a disregard for the rights of anything other than "self".

And in this case I don't just mean "self" in terms of an individual, but in terms of the "self" of the tribe, species, social/political group etc

And that leads to a perception that the "self" is in some way distinct from the whole.

So I agree that it is a fiction to believe that there is any separation from God / The Divine Whole, and that the truth is that we are all one and connected.

I am not sure that I agree with the implication that this distinction is motivated by Evil powers.

I think it is part of the process of evolution and enlightment that we go through this, and that any "Evil" we see is more the act of the un-enlightened.

And that to me answers the question as to why God created Satan. Because it is through Satan and his acts, and both how harmful but ultimately futile they are, that we evolve and reach the enlightment that shows us the Truth.

I do not think we are straying from the Masters' intention. I think we are simply going through the process of achieving it: i.e. we are evolving away from the instinct of self-preservation, towards a more enlightened future.

However that can only happen once a species is no longer under threat, and the intense need for self-preservation as the number one priority passes.

Until that point however, the self-preservation instinct is vital, to ensure the continuity of evolution / spiritual sophistication of that species, to a point where it can reach enlightment.

Oh, and I am not entirely convinced humanity is necessary the vehicle by which the Masters' plan will be achieved.

I think it is arrogant to believe that the Masters play favourites with species, or that we are "favoured" by them.

However I do think we are currently the best bet of all the species we know (and therefore may receive extra attention and assistance from the Masters), but I think we have yet to prove that we are capable of rising to the challenge.

That does not mean the Masters' plan is either flawed or will fail. It simply means that if WE fail to achieve it, then following our demise as a species, eventually some other species will evolve to a similar degree of spiritual sophistication to achieve their plan.
Either on this planet, in this solar system, or in another one.

I kind of touched on this in a posting on my own blog (click my handle to see it).

Plastic Jesus indeed (good one Yogi).

Peace

We even had a Chocolate Jesus for a few days.
I kinda liked him.

the recipy? the book of job,

the how?

http://www.polishforums.com/sernik_polish_cheesecake_recipe-8_136_0.html

the why? because she's cute.

love, passion

I just can't wait for Deepak's 3 or 4 part series on the search for the real Muhammad. That should be a good one.

I wonder if that is a mis-interpretation of John 14:6 "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me" ~WhiteCharger

Well we must remember that to avoid prosecution and persecution many back then spoke in a sort of code that was only understood by those initiated or having the deeper wisdom.

In this example the I AM can mean the original pure state of self conscious awareness without language (the tree of knowledge) and illusions and fictions that can be created with it. So one must find their true Self and doing so will see it as the thing behind everything and everyone. The "father" in this is The Source and when connected one becomes an emanation of it's greatness and is endowed with it's infinite capability.

Richard
That is a good way to look at it. I like to put that together with Jesus's saying.

I am in my Father, and you in me and me in you.
(Meaning to me that we are all connected and One.)

I AM or I am the way, then make perfect sense to me.(It is not really the person Jesus)

Just my thinking
Bonnie

Richard,

I don't disagree that the text itself may have a more subtle "coded" meaning.

But I was actually referring to a far simpler mis-interpretation: perhaps
"No one comes to the Father except through Me" actually means
"No one comes to the Father, unless they live the life and the way that I have revealed to you",
instead of the way it seems to be interpreted as:
"No one comes to the Father, unless they worship Me".

Clearly the latter (mis)interpretation is one that serves and has been promoted by those in the business of defining and providing the means to worship Jesus, and has been further hijacked / perverted by the introduction of Apostolic Succession.

The interpretation I offered above also works if you substitue the coded meanings into it, becoming something like:

"Pure being (self conscious awareness) is the way, the life and the truth. No one comes to that state of being (understanding their unity with The Source), unless they live the life and the way that I have revealed to you."

To me this is a clear indication that we should focus less on Jesus as a figurehead / icon / symbol / historical enigma, and more on his Message of Love, Compassion and Tolerance.

This to me is the real essence of Christianity, and indeed the other belief systems I mentioned earlier such as Buddhism, Jainism, Hinduism, Taoism etc.

Ironically, anyone holding that view is automatically an Apostate of the modern Christian Church...

“If God were your Father, you would love me, for I
came from God and am here;

Gospel
Jn 8:31-42

Jesus said to those Jews who believed in him,
“If you remain in my word, you will truly be my
disciples,
and you will know the truth, and the truth will setyou free.”
They answered him, “We are descendants of Abraham
and have never been enslaved to anyone.
How can you say, ‘You will become free’?”
Jesus answered them, “Amen, amen, I say to you,
everyone who commits sin is a slave of sin.
A slave does not remain in a household forever,
but a son always remains.
So if the Son frees you, then you will truly be free.
I know that you are descendants of Abraham.
But you are trying to kill me,
because my word has no room among you.
I tell you what I have seen in the Father’s presence;
then do what you have heard from the Father.”

They answered and said to him, “Our father is
Abraham.”
Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children,
you would be doing the works of Abraham.
But now you are trying to kill me,
a man who has told you the truth that I heard from
God;
Abraham did not do this.
You are doing the works of your father!”
So they said to him, “We were not born of fornication.

We have one Father, God.”
Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you
would love me,
for I came from God and am here;
I did not come on my own, but he sent me.”

All has been created so we may see Who we are......
V

Thats what all of the Great teachers are telling you! Who you Are! They come in human bobies, just like ours we are all ONE!
Now Marek if you could just post that recipe, that would be Great!, I tried that big ol long address, no luck, Please hurry a freind of mine is coming and Id like to bake that! Blessings to all!
V

Hey, Check this out:
http://www.beliefnet.com/story/76/story_7665_1.html
Take a test and find out what religion you are!
Find out at last your personal way to God!

Turns out I'm a Liberal Quaker, which makes so much sense, because I love oatmeal! I even use oatmeal soap! And horses, and building houses in a day! And my mom's from Pittsburg!
Rounding out my top 6 are Unitarian Universalism (which probably is closest to the truth),. Orthodox Quaker, Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants, Mahayana Buddhism and Theravada Buddhism.
Roman Catholic was way down the list. No wonder those nuns liked to beat the crap out of me.

Here's a good book about Jesus and Buddha:
Living Buddha, Living Christ by Thich Nhat Hanh.
He does a great job of pointing out the many similarities in the religions.

There is an appointed time for everything, and a time for every affair under the heavens.
A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to uproot the plant.
A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to tear down, and a time to build.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance.
A time to scatter stones, and a time to gather them; a time to embrace, and a time to be far from embraces. A time to seek, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away.
A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to be silent, and a time to speak.
A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

All the Christians on this blog make me LOL when they try to relate to other Eastern religions.. I wonder they would have these feelings "About oneness" without studying "other religions". If Christianity had the capacity to evolve to the concepts of "super consciousness" which exists in the eastern religions then it would not had the intolerance towards other religions to the extent that it tries to "covert" people of other religions. I think the British did a favor to the Western people by spreading English to eastern world. The Eastern people are now capable of communicating and helping Western minds to evolve from the "Animalistic" concepts of "Survival of the fittest" to the concepts of "Survival of the wisest". If just Goodwill and Charity are the foundations of the religion then Western minds need 1000 years of evolution in thought before they can understand where the Eastern minds have reached as far as religion is considered... By the way, Western people forget that every time they find benefits form Yoga they are benefiting from the religious evolutionary thoughts from the 3'rd world.. Every time they do mathematical calculations to send satellites far into the galaxies they are using "Mathematics" invented by the religious evolutionary thoughts from the 3'rd world. Western minds have to evolve enough to understand that some of the Eastern religions are not organized but were an enquiry into nature which included your own body and mind.

Shoes untied,
Ha, made you look!

Wow David, I just re-read John chapter 8, and all I can say is WOW.

That is some very, uhh, well, . . .

Wow!

Peace

Whatever, Wears my cheesecake recipe? ASAP Maaaaarek?
V

empyrius, amen to that!

“Amen, amen, I say to you, before Abraham came to be, I AM.”

Thursday of the Fifth Week of Lent
Psalm: Thursday 11

Reading 1
Gn 17:3-9

When Abram prostrated himself, God spoke to him:

“My covenant with you is this:

you are to become the father of a host of nations.
No longer shall you be called Abram;
your name shall be Abraham,
for I am making you the father of a host of nations.
I will render you exceedingly fertile;
I will make nations of you;
kings shall stem from you.
I will maintain my covenant with you
and your descendants after you
throughout the ages as an everlasting pact,
to be your God and the God of your descendants after you.
I will give to you
and to your descendants after you
the land in which you are now staying,
the whole land of Canaan, as a permanent possession;
and I will be their God.”

God also said to Abraham:

“On your part, you and your descendants after you
must keep my covenant throughout the ages.’

Responsorial Psalm
Ps 105:4-5, 6-7, 8-9

R. (8a) The Lord remembers his covenant for ever.
Look to the LORD in his strength;
seek to serve him constantly.
Recall the wondrous deeds that he has wrought,
his portents, and the judgments he has uttered.
R. The Lord remembers his covenant for ever.
You descendants of Abraham, his servants,
sons of Jacob, his chosen ones!
He, the LORD, is our God;
throughout the earth his judgments prevail.
R. The Lord remembers his covenant for ever.
He remembers forever his covenant
which he made binding for a thousand generations—
Which he entered into with Abraham
and by his oath to Isaac.
R. The Lord remembers his covenant for ever.

Gospel
Jn 8:51-59

Jesus said to the Jews:

“Amen, amen, I say to you,
whoever keeps my word will never see death.”
So the Jews said to him,
“Now we are sure that you are possessed.
Abraham died, as did the prophets, yet you say,
‘Whoever keeps my word will never taste death.’
Are you greater than our father Abraham, who died?
Or the prophets, who died?
Who do you make yourself out to be?”
Jesus answered, “If I glorify myself, my glory is
worth nothing;
but it is my Father who glorifies me,
of whom you say, ‘He is our God.’
You do not know him, but I know him.
And if I should say that I do not know him,
I would be like you a liar.
But I do know him and I keep his word.
Abraham your father rejoiced to see my day;
he saw it and was glad.”
So the Jews said to him,
“You are not yet fifty years old and you have seen
Abraham?”
Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you,
before Abraham came to be, I AM.”
So they picked up stones to throw at him;
but Jesus hid and went out of the temple area.

This coming Easter, don't forget what the Bible says: the Jews MURDERED Jesus. And for this, they shall inherit eternal HELL. Amen.

Seeker, I am not sure what your point is in #53?

If it is that today there are many different belief systems in existence at different levels of spiritual sophistication, then I agree with you.

If it is that both historically and today these different belief systems have influenced each other, and benefitted from that cross-fertilisation of ideas, then again I agree with you.

If it is to pour scorn on apparently less sophisticated belief systems, or to highlight the differences between them, rather than the similarities, then I cannot agree with that attitude.

Life is a process, a journey. There are many travellers, and as many starting points, though there is but one destination.

To judge travellers for where they have started from, something which for the most part is influenced by the culture into which they were born (something they had little choice about), is unfair. What matters is how earnestly they seek and follow a path to the destination.

Actually to judge anyone at all is an act of supreme arrogance, as judgement is exclusively the right of the all knowing Divine; as humans to believe we can fully comprehend that Divine, given our current evolutionary status, is incredibly presumptuous.

TWC,

#59 was very well said and done.
Your name is new here but you are not a novice by any means.
#40 was also to the point. There may be several higher levels
or planes of existence to be reached as an individual,
but individuals do not evolve, only species do.
"God created Satan", how do you know that?

As a collective, we're only halfway to the first rung
on Jacob's Ladder and our step-stool is "FEED THE WORLD".

I am hungry and starving and you want to save my soul?

#41, I respectfully disagree with that assumption.

Nice to meet you! Keith~

Thank you Keith.

While I agree that individuals don't evolve genetically, only species do, I think there is a kind of non-genetic evolution that happens at the individual level: call it progressing along your journey, call it learning, call it enlightenment, or whatever. It is something that brings about change at an individual level, towards (hopefully) something better.

The "God created Satan" bit just comes from my understanding of Christian scripture, where God created everything including Lucifer, whose name means the bringer of Light. ;)

And I totally agree that Feeding The World is important: it is part of self-preservation of the species to ensure the continuity of its evolution and spiritual sophistication. To focus purely on the spiritual side of things is a kind of elitism and isolation from the reality of the world we live in.
However, equally important (or at least in the same ball park), as feeding the world, are addressing other threats to our survival as a species: global warming, global dimming, and other potential mass-extinction events.

As for #41, that is just my level of understanding of things given where I am on my journey. I am not trying to ram it down anyone's throat. As I progress on my journey I may be enlightened to hold a different view, or not.

So I whole heartedly encourage you and others to question #41 and am glad you can disagree with it so respectfully ;)

It is the things we have in common that are important and help drive us towards Unity with the Divine, not the differences.

Ok, with regard to #41, let me explain why I believe that. I am not trying to ram it down anyone's throat, just explain why I believe it do be the case. As I've said you are all welcome to disagree.

Basicially throughout history, Humanity has been very anthropocentic in its interpretation of things. As a species we have at various times believed that the Earth was the center of the Universe, the center of the solar system etc etc.

Many still believe that God (replace with the name of your favourite Creator) created Man in His own image, and that He created the world for US. I merely wonder if that is not an anthropocentric interpretation of The Divine.

Personally I try hard (though as a human frequently fail) not to project my own individual, social, cultural or species-based assumptions on The Divine.

As I strive to achieve Unity with The Divine on my personal journey, I know that while I may get to understand facets of it, I will never understand ALL of it. Even if I achieve Unity, I will only be part of the Divine, not all of it.

And to me achieving Unity really is fully understanding that I am already fully part of the Divine, and any differences I feel are part of my human condition.

TWC,

To tap into what this post is all about...

how much weight do we give to the words of others?

It is difficult to surmise which of the Masters

were directly channeling the thoughts of God.

Not being one, myself, I can't say it is even possible.

"I am THAT I am, and besides Me there is no other."

God didn't write that and neither did Jesus.

But if it is true, then anyone has a right to claim
that their words are the words of God, for how then
could it be any other way?

I hope Deepak brings up Thomas Paine is this series.

"Common Sense: And Other Political Writings" along
with "The Age Of Reason" set the tone a long time ago
influencing the forefathers of the U.S. of A.

Just giving credit where credit is due, Keith~

"I AM the way the truth and the light no one comes to the kingdom of heaven exept through me" Ok, " I Am" everybody say "I Am", ok, "The way the truth and the light", "I Am" again here please, Know one comes to the father(heaven) exept through me, Say" I Am" Here too, in other words YOU ARE , The one saying it Right?
Let the Sweetness remind who, YOU are.
Jesus spoke in rym and ridle,thats why its soooo confusing......"You are" dose that help

Still waiting on that Cheesecake recipe!
There is light in all,Blessings!
V

If God's image contains all that IS then I agree we were
created in that image, in His body, and each of us is a part
of the same body. There can be no separation, you are correct.

I have also seen it interpreted as:

Man was created 'as' the image of God, a Universe unto himself.

Man cannot separate his own species from the others
nor can we hope to be saved by zero...or aliens.

One Divine System, All for One and One for All, right?

To claim the Divine Rights Of Kings is to see ourselves
as part of the Royal Family. We are thus
"...like unto little children" already. Know it!

Jesus did...

Dear Deepak

Thank you for this post. I look forward to the rest of the series. I've often thought about the real Jesus, and how to reconcile him with my sense of his presence in real life.

love, Heath

Keith, I agree with you.

We are of One Mind, we may just be using different words to say the same thing.

:)

My favorite saying of Einstein's was:

If the answer is simple..that's God talking.

Say I AM.

Bonnie

"We are of One Mind, we may just be using different words to say the same thing."

You know.. how silly you all sound in your endless discussions and justifications of, "what you said", "what I said", "what you meant", "what I meant", "what is a wise opinion" etc?

Guys just try to improve your writing skills, your analysis and reasoning. Be very clear of what you want to convey. First write a rough draft and then spend some time to revise it re-read it and then post it. You don't need to make multiple posts to clarify and convey your understanding and thinking about a subject. Make an attempt to write precisely. A good example is to follow the example of Deepak Chopra. See how he presents his arguments in his posts. He is very clear in what he wants to convey. Make an attempt guys and make it a habit!

Vigilance is a hindrance to creative spontaneity.

Sin: that which hinders you on the road to progress.

I hear the chains dragging behind you. Got scythe?

Michael.

I can't believe it took me this long to realize who you are. I thought what you were saying sounded familiar.

With Much Love and Peace your way today,
Melissa

PS I didn't have to time to do a rough draft and revise. Sorry.

Dear Deepak,
You ask if Jesus is real.
You too, have stepped into the mystery and I look forward to what you share in your next post. What discoveries you make. What will be revealed.
Love,
~ Kate

You might Click my name and read

Sirius The FBI Agent and The Fish Company

Per Mr. Urgo Diamu.

If you all will recall the "fish" was used as the secret symbol of the Early Christians and various clandestine spiritual movements back 2,000 or so years ago. You have actually probably seen this fish image on bumper stickers. However most today are unaware of it’s original purpose.

There is evidence that the early schools of mystery used a fish company for cover.

The reason they were so mysterious is that communicating unapproved thought could lead to prison or death depending on how much of a threat it was to popular fictions being maintained.

What many thought was a company logo and brand was actually a secret identifier communicating to those "initiates" that this was an entity, person or group with a strong connection to the source.

Michael, re #69

You are right, my writing skills are poor, and not up to the task of conveying in a single succinct post the entire breadth and depth of every nuance of my human experience in pursuit of enlightenment.

My bad.

I hope however this forum will afford me the ability to express myself as best as I can within the context of a discussion with other members of this forum, not dissimilar to the kind Socratic Dialogue employed by people much wiser than me.

Dear dr. Chopra,

I've got my butt kicked, again, what else is new,
she's not interested, in a cup of coffee/and or a dinner, at a local bar, with me, again,
hey, did my best, nontheless,
let's draw the numbers, that's 1 bancrupcy, and 2
rejected wedding proposals before my thirties,

What's the karmic meaning?
Here's my verdict,
1. the first I couldn't help, it, she was impressed by the new york, whatever,
2. the seccond, she's not married yet, but the problem was, she was impressed, by the attention,
entertainment that comes with, the beauty..
and she has 13 in a dozen to choose from..
money, beemers, mercedess, or.. I call them playa's..
3. And I was lacking..

There's a spirtual lesson, in that,
draw your own conclusions,

With,
Love, Passion
Ps. Did anybody read the interview in Men's Health magazine, march edition, with that guy, Gerard Butler? i got impressed, and inspired,
that spartanic workout, I'm polish, and i hear my dad saying; you can do better than that!
ltz,

how freakin' non funny..

all i wanted to do is give a (read: my) princess, a shiatsu and/or a reiki massage, what's wrong with a 9 to 5 job?, the magic is when you come home,

with love, passion
marek
http://library.lovingyou.com/poetry/winners/file.shtml?ID=pod

Love Poem of the Day
A daily dose of romantic, poetic verse!

Anything For You
by Jeffrey D. Sartor

A gentle kiss
To heal your pain
An offered umbrella
To stop the rain
An outstretched hand
In time of need
Words of kindness
To plant the seed
A tender touch
To soothe the skin
And caring arms
To welcome you in
A love to last
And always be true
Knowing I would do
Anything for you

You know what? Dr. Chopra? it's all god, good, with me,

But I'm still gonna.. spamm this..;)
(it's a polish thing, sue me, ;)

http://www.instonenutrition.com/videos/stallone2.htm

Stallone got caught, at the aussie border with human, growth hormone, does anyone know where that comes from? that illigal. even in the Netherlands.

i recommend, ..

love, Passion,
marek

i was bored, dr. Chopra,
and pissed, at, a lot of things,

maya, whatever, I'm stuck here with dutch morons, and rejection(s), from, a turkish princess,

1. you vast.
2. beyond your comfort zone.
3. you learn to love it.
4. it's a za-zen thing.
5. you fall in love.
6. after that, i have no idea,
7. but i sure can give you a heavenly massage,

buzka,
marek
ps. and a song
http://teledyski.onet.pl/0,2095800,0,1,teledyski.html

Read this sometime back and it struck home...
" The bible is the biggest bestseller of our times" and "Religion is the cocaine of the masses"...

Just to say that I really enjoyed everyone's comments. Thanks!

Love, Char

Hi Deepak,
Love you. One thing, most scholars believe Q is used by Matthew & Luke, not Mark.
There is a small minority trying to connect Mark with Q. I think it's important to study the historical Jesus; it is interesting that people get so defensive with the questions. Never stop asking questions!
Take care.