Have you considered the plight of millions of aborted fetuses every year in India?

It doesn't have the same SHOCK value, as the plight of Stillborn babies and their cremation, does it?

Stillborn babies are a tiny fraction of Aborted babies.

BTW, Whatever your personal experiences, by saying "I can speak with authority"(twice) you come across as a blowhard.

Oh Jeff, you disappoint me.

Dear Anou,

I read your blog and one thing that struck me is that what we need to find is equality beyond the mind-made dichotomy called life -death, young-old, poverty- riches, men- women, guilty-innocent, good-bad and so on. In my experience, we do not solve anything taking sides, even for what we personally consider good... if we do, we simply reinforce and strengthen the conflict.

The solution is Spirit. When we go to the deepest place in us, we cannot help but notice that we already ARE equal. From this insight the world can be changed, but it will not happen by, for example... hating the imaginary category of people called "rich people" and consider them the reason for the plight of the "poor people". Such a view will simply increase the conflict and the suffering.

We are all equal, and that means that we can meet each other, both the outraged citizen, the hurting mother with her still born baby and the "predator" priests, with the same dignity, love and understanding. We need to meet beyond our judgements, if we are to solve anything. The bad guys are always changing shape, as are the good guys. But our essence never changes and is always beyond our ideas of good and bad.

Meeting in that place of equality and unconditional love changes everything, miraculously. And I don't mean it in a philosophical way, but in a most down-to-earth manner. This way of meeting people and situations changes them in the deepest way I know. It involves one of the most painful, scary things- putting down one's own beliefs and defense system and loving against all reason. It's an act of courage, and we all need to learn to do it.

In this specific situation it means that we need to find in our heart the understanding, respect and love for all the people, on all sides of the conflict. From there, correct action will follow, devoid of any hate or judgement. Action of this kind is infused with the power of Spirit, and will end in miracles. As always, the solution is in ourselves, not out there.

My prayers are with all these children and the unborn babies.....yes so many things are shock ing in India..its difficult to remain sane...i am a mother and i know what this means...god bless you.dipti

Dear Anou.. there are so few, to lift up the discarded, ignored, abandoned and poor and diseased in this world... I count myself fortunate, that you and your workers do, on our behalf's.....

May you continue to feel inspired by compassion, fuled with determination to make a difference; and the strength and the courage; to rise above storms, which attempt to stop you....

with loving kindness, I bow in your presence,
North

Ref. 2

A blowhard is someone(male/female) who boasts and brags. A blowhard is someone(male/female) who is a self-important egomaniac who likes to toot his/her own horn, a braggy and pretentious person, prideful and arrogant. A egotist. Someone(male/female) who claims authority for the sole purpose of bringing weight to an argument without rational back-up to his/her points but would rather dabble in "emotional appeal" like talking about a dead child or vividly describing a still-born, when the need is to provide statistically relevant and well researched data and professional opinion and observations which might be termed authoritative, by the readers and not by the writer. Blowhards are people who are insecure with their existence, and by their own virtue they feel the need to boast their authority about issues, who are otherwise ignorant/unaware or not qualified to be astute researchers or are professionals in the said field.

You start-off by saying : Hinduism does not allow them(children) to be cremated as it is said that their soul is not connected to their body!

There is a practices of cremating not only infants and children, but also that of monks, saints and eunuchs. Do you mean to say that the souls of children, monks and eunuchs are not connected to their body as the rest of others, according to Hinduism?

Hinduism doesn't "prohibit" cremation of children. monks or eunuchs like the Judeo-Christian religions do.

The central teachings of Vedanta doesn't discriminate the souls of chidren, monks, eunuchs,adults and men or women.

The reason for this practice could be:

Read: Cremation and its origin in Hinduism by by Dr. Subhash C. Sharma

http://www.geocities.com/lamberdar/cremation.html

Here's an excerpt:

"In some unusual situations though, such as, when monks and children died, the dead were buried rather than cremated. It was perhaps because the deceased in this case did not leave any offspring behind. Since the prevailing custom required a son to ignite the funeral pyre, cremation would be considered inappropriate for a child or a monk -- dying usually without leaving any offspring (son) behind. Therefore the dead were buried in such cases."

You conclude by saying: Today's world is for the living rich, not for the dead and least of all for the poor.

Earlier you said : we are a city busy dividing the gap between rich and poor and yet this incident shows that at least in death rich children and poor children are treated the same way.

You mean to say that todays world is for the living rich. If as you say , in death all are treated equal, how come the living rich who have their children dead appreciate the world they live in? Aren't you contradicting yourself?

In your conclusion you also say: But as the debate goes on, more children will find their way to the baccha ghat while the city will be busy for 2010 a red later day for many.

Aren't being pessimistic about the will of Indian people and the power of Indian media? Anyway, you may be the expert, but I am astonished to see the way in throw your hands up!

If you really want to make a difference, if you are so passionate about this cause, you need to look at the problem closely and think rationally, rather being all emotional about it.

The problem lies in "the religious practice of cremating the infants and children in a ever growing city"

Th solution is to make the poor who cannot afford a private land for burial, aware of the blind practices of religion.

There are several Electric Crematoriums in Delhi. You can have a decent funeral there for any individual including children, monks and eunuchs.

Make an effort to bring social awareness regarding blind religious practices.

These practices are not written in stone in Vedas or in Bhagvat Gita. There is no hope for you if you cannot take the first step to bring spiritual awareness in place of a blind religious practice.

You may keep on complaining and rant to your heart's content with another blog entry, if you are not really interested in making a difference.

I am not sure if you are one of those persons who would take a note and correct yourself if your authority and certitude is questioned.

Hi Jeff,
It is late and I must rest soon, but did want to respond to your comment in post # 1.

I have read the article and here is a portion of Anou's words:

"I can speak with authority as I lived all my life under the shadow of a dead brother I never knew, one that lived but a few days on earth but lived in my mother's memory till she breathed her last, a brother who was ever present in my life. I guess my parents were lucky that he was born and died in an alien land. A tombstone marks his brief passage on earth in a Prague cemetery.

I can speak with authority as only a few years ago I scurried around the city with a tiny bundle in my arms looking for a dignified place to lay it to rest. To many it was just a 7 months still born foetus, but for one young mother it was her first child. I had been summoned to Safdurjung hospital by a pwhy staff who was admitted there, as this very young mother had gone in a state of shock when she was told to hand over her child so that it could be thrown in the hospital dustbin. She had refused to let go of her baby and sat in catatonic inertia.

When I reached the maternity ward I just held out my shawl and gently asked the girl to give me her child promising her a dignified send off. She did. That was the beginning of an ordeal I cannot forget.

I took my precious bundle which for me was above all a mother's love and went to the one place I knew: the Lodhi crematorium foolishly believing that there must be an option for young children. As we alighted from the three wheeler I could see a bunch of predators (read funeral rites priest) approach us, gauging our worth and probably thinking we were an advance part to some funeral. When they knew what we had come for, they just walked away in disdain, not even listening to our plea.

I must thank our stars that no one guided us to bachha ghat. Refusing to give up as my promise had to be honoured, I stood my ground. A few minutes later an elderly man approached us and told us that we could bury the child a little further in the empty grounds that lay ahead. He did not reveal that it was the defecating place of the nearby slums. We found a place that seemed clean. No help was forthcoming from the people that had gathered around so we slowly dug a grave with our bare hands, and lay the little child to rest, wrapped in its shawl, and carefully laid stones on the grave and placed the few flowers we had brought with us".

I believe Anou speaks from experience and authority to this issue. For myself, I sense her deep care and commitment to the work of service she is involved in. She walks the walk - and she is touching lives in an enriching way. Thank you Anou, for your willingness to do this.

Jeff, I hope you are getting some rest now!

~ Kate

Dear Anou, I echo Kate's sentiments.. walk with the beauty, courage and strength; that you ARE!

with loving kindness,
North

Kate writes: I sense her deep care and commitment to the work of service she is involved in.

Anouradha Bakshi's article is pessimistic. She doesn't seek a solution to the issue at hand. She shows a defeatist and nihilistic attitude towards a prevailing cultural and socio-economic problem brought to public awareness by the media.

On one hand, she says she speaks with authority and confidence and surety, but fails to provide "any" solution.

She says: The said TV channel held a discussion of this shocking reality and once again we witnessed the birth of a new polemic with all the necessary ingredients for endless debates for all: politicians, opposition, religious leaders, the judiciary, the newly empowered citizen groups et al..

Not only she fails to provide a solution she fails to appreciate the efforts of media and the like minded individuals who may be as concerned as she is about the problem and are in fact trying to find a solution.

Kate Says: "She walks the walk - and she is touching lives in an enriching way."

She is walking the pessimistic walk doing nothing about the real problem which is - blind religious practices.

She says: Hinduism does not allow them to be cremated as it is said that their soul is not connected to their body!

Who is stopping you from cremating?(Electric cremation may be more practical if traditional cremations are still a taboo for those handling the job.)

Have you studied how the millions of Muslims are buried in India? How do they manage it in a big city? Try to apply the same for Hindu children, monks and eunuchs.

also, why can't you start and manage a burial ground for children a few miles away from the city outskirts, in the interior regions, say near a rural village where the land is dirt cheap? I am sure the parents of the young child manage to travel 20 miles to perform the last rights to their beloved son.

If you are not proactive and think things rationally you cannot identify problem areas and find the best solutions.

"Change the way you look at the world and the world looks different."

Dear Anou.. please know, that many of us visit your threads, because we are honouring your good intentions. We don't see any faults, failures, nor weakness's in you.

On the contrary... we see a woman, whom could very well be living a comfortable life; instead, take up the challenge of making a differnce for the poor and depraved among you.

Jeff seems to enjoy criticizing people. It is his/her way, I suppose.. but, I had to come in to let you know.. not everyone is criticizing you in any way, shape or form.

On the contrary, to one negative e-motion by Jeff; keep your beauty of compassion always, at your side... because we are also there, standing with you in spirit...don't let someones cruel intentions... cause you harm.. otherwise.. you let him/her win(wink.)

Jeff, I hope you are in a better frame of mood today, to share with others? May love touch you, and anoint you with compassionate love and understanding.

with loving kindness,
North

The article portrays the people of Delhi as victims of blind religious practices and traditions.

There is no hope come 2010 or 2020 if the author herself is a victim of blind religious practices - The article and the author are both hopeless and clueless.

Anou:

Your fearlessness to walk the path of love, is beyond the comprehension of some. We, are, all one and no one is to blame.

Love
Bonnie

North Says:

"Jeff seems to enjoy criticizing people. It is his/her way, I suppose.. but, I had to come in to let you know.. not everyone is criticizing you in any way, shape or form.

On the contrary, to one negative e-motion by Jeff; keep your beauty of compassion always, at your side... because we are also there, standing with you in spirit...don't let someones cruel intentions... cause you harm.. otherwise.. you let him/her win(wink.)

Jeff, I hope you are in a better frame of mood today, to share with others? May love touch you, and anoint you with compassionate love and understanding."

I see here an emotional parasite, looking for validation of the feelings towards the author from others, incluing me.

May this sickness be cured.

Quoting AJ, "..hopeless and clueless..."

That sums it up.

Dear Jeff... I will continue to pray for you; may love touch you, and anoint you with compassion, hope, joy.... open your heart, and allow it in.

This the same news item on IBN:

Capital denies last rites to toddlers
Shreya Dhoundial
CNN-IBN
Posted Wednesday, April 11, 2007 at 12:34

"Under the law, no child or adult can be denied a proper cremation, regardless of beliefs. The Delhi Municipality, which is in charge of 60 crematoriums in the city, puts the blame on NGOs that run crematoriums."

http://www.ibnlive.com/news/capital-denies-last-rites-to-toddlers/38281-3.html

Anouradha it's time NGO's like you in Delhi take a good look at yourself. Apparently people of your ilk are part of the problem.

NGOs who run these crematoriums are THE Problem. They cannot shun away their responsibility.

The NGOs responsible for running the crematoriums have failed the trust entrusted in them by denying cremation for children under 3 years old, which is against the Law of the land. This, in your blind faith and blind religious practices. Good news is that the Government has intervened, to provide a viable option, due to the awareness brought by the media:

"The WCD ministry on Wednesday telephonically contacted MCD, NDMC and DDA officials. "MCD officials indicated that there is no problem in obtaining land from the DDA for burial ground for children and money is not an issue," an official said. After this, Dikshit was contacted and she assured Chowdhury that soon a meeting would be called of officials to earmark adequate land for burial grounds for children in Delhi.

Following a positive response from Dikshit, the WCD secretary Deepa Jain Singh would soon write to other state governments to make a similar provision for burial of children."

The above excerpt taken from the Hindustan Times article:

No safe burial for kids below age of three

Chetan Chauhan
New Delhi, April 12, 2007

www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?id=3d0ef192-8155-47c0-a4da-c93640880113&MatchID1=4449&TeamID1=1&TeamID2=8&MatchType1=2&SeriesID1=1104&PrimaryID=4449

People of Delhi don't need NGOs who are blinded by their own hypocrisy.

Thanks for the media, and the political and public will of India.

Bonnie Writes: We, are, all one and no one is to blame.

Apply the same to Iraq Scenario.

Bush is not to be blamed.
Rapists, Terrorists, Insurgents, Abu Graibh Prison Guards or anyone for that matter are not to be blamed, taken to task and punished.

Blame comes with Accountability. No one is to be Accountable. Nice way to look at things. No debate, no progress no nothing. One in All, All in One. Way to go.

"I will continue to pray for you; may love touch you, and anoint you with compassion, hope, joy.... open your heart, and allow it in."

Keep you prayers to yourself.

North has nothing to add to the issue, except, praising the author.

Hi Jeff,
You have brought up some of the reasons why this terrible practice is occurring - and continues.

I agree with you, ending this requires involvement from the government to mandate land for burial.

In only dealing with effects, the root cause of many problems cannot be solved.

Earlier today, there was a terrible shooting at the campus where my niece is, and nearly 2 dozen students have been killed.

There will be many burials this week for grieving families, and many tears shed.

"A child is precious and lives in its mother heart from the very moment it is conceived."
~ Anouradha

~ Kate

Jeff, I am not praising the author; I am praising the work she does with/for dying children and adults in impoverished areas of India. Fine, will keep my prayers to myself; as you seem to enjoy your misery too much anyway...(gentle frown.)

Kate... been on the news all morning about the Virginia Tech Campus shootings.. I pray your neice is ok, and home safe!! All I can do, is shake my head... and pray for the families of the murdered--20, teen-children.. absolutely heart-breaking events.

with loving kindness,
North

Jeff
Re #18
My own perspective is that blame does not arise from accountability, rather from a life view of helplessness, hopelessness and dispair where an individual abdicates their own responsibility/accountability in a given situation and projects that lack of responsibility onto another or group of people through guilt, humiliation and shame and thus verify their status as a victim. To them at least they have a status.

Applying this perspective to Bush, I would say he individually is not to blame, rather we all are through a multitude of individual decisions made by a multitude of individuals over a long period of time. Like Imus, Bush is a symbol of a much deeper problem. That does not say that I like him and I personally, have never supported the war. Could I personally have stopped the war-no-could we collectively have stopped the war-yes.

From a social-behavorial viewpoint, what people live by is a set of principles, regardless of what they say they believe. Accountability arises when a person or group of people violate principles espoused by a society. It is the society's responsibility to adher to those principles. In your example. let's take the Abu Garib prison guards. If we as a country we say we agree to the principles of the Geneva Convention, which prohibits torture, then anyone perpetuating torture is accountable for those actions. What the guards did was project guilt onto the prisoners through humiliation and shame. Shame and humiliation are tools of cruelty and arise from a desire to blame. Same analysis would apply to the other situations.

In one of your earlier posts, you stated"......the real problem which is blind religious practices." Guilt-domination results in an unforgiving emotional attitude frequently exploited by religious demagogues who use it for coercion and control. Our own unforgiving American society, for instance, scorns its victims in the press and metes out punishments that have never been demonstrated to have any deterrent or corrective value for the underlying problem.

To me the solution to all problems is ultimately through the ability to open one's heart to love whereby we each recognize our own as well as everyone elses "foibles", giving ourselves the opportunity to forgive ourselves and everyone else which opens the door to compassion. So to me, North has a tremendous amount to offer.

Does this mean I want to associate with rapists, murderers etc.--Absolutely not, but I can find it in my heart to forgive them. They too feel justified in blaming their victims. Will we collectively reach a point where everyone loves themselves anytime soon. Not likely, but we can individually raise our own integrity.

As far as debate goes, I am all for open honest debate, but when it degenerates into blaming, finding fault, casting guilt, or simply trying to prove someone wrong, ridicule another person or seek approval for one's own perspective, then it is merely bickering with an argumentative attitude and solves nothing.

Well there you have it Jeff, my perspective. Like I said before, I care more for,say, tariffs on Mexican asparagus, than I do about what your opinion of me is. I do care for you as a person., so if you wish to engage in an open debate I am more than willing. If you wish to engage in your habitual desire to prove me wrong, or find me guilty of some, in your opinion, unforgivable sin, or to make me appear vulnerable, then don't bother......it will not work.

Sincerely

Bonnie

Bravo, and Well-said, Bonnie!!

Death toll in Virginia; is confirmed at 32

bonnie

I am all for an open debate. In a debate people do argue. People have different perspectives. I am happy, if you don't mind arguing given that you took an oath never to agrue with anyone again after an inner voice warned you one fine morning.

Coming abck to the topic at hand, I would be gald to see people appreciating a balanced opinion based on facts and ground realities or an optimistic view filled with hope rather than appreciating the 'good intentions of the author'( or the author) which fail to identify the root of the problems and provide a tangible solution.

North,

"Jeff, I am not praising the author; I am praising the work she does with/for dying children and adults in impoverished areas of India. "

You can praise the good work the author does in other fileds. My criticsm of the author is in regard with the authors views on hindu child cremations which is the topic we are discussing.

And I say again you haven't added no new ideas to the article except praising the socilal work of the author which doesn't provide a solution to the problem of undignified Hindu child funerals in Delhi.