They are already planning to leave Iraq, when they go into Iran. You would think.

Of course they want them to ask, so later they can say, well you asked us to.

Actually I think they did ask or mentioned it as there plan.

What would happen if we all focused on Love?

Hi Saira and Richard!

Well, let's deeply focus on love

2 on Channel 1
3-in-1
Now, we have channel 3

Do what you feel you have to do
No directions
It's coming from nowhere
And going everywhere
Let's Living-Love be resurrected!

Yes indeed, fear and love cannot both exist at the same time within in your mind.

That filled with love is fearless...

A thought born of fear should be discarded, a thought born of love embraced.
~Infinite Play the Movie

To rephrase...
The world could, rather ceremonious, publish Iraq's request on the front pages of their newspapers loud and clear. That isn't happening. Does Iraq = USA? When Bush says that 'we will leave if they ask us'...is that mere tautological nonsense? What do the people of Iraq want? Does anybody know?

Maybe it's easier to focus on Love and it's power during times of war. No wonder Lennon and Yoko stayed in bed...

...should be, "rather ceremoniously"

Hey Saira,

The people in Iraq want the same thing as the people in the US [roof, income, entertainment, travel, good food and sex] but when was the last time your government representative, president, or priminister asked you what you want?

Good point about John & Yoko, excellent approach they had, so come on over and let's fight the war with love :)

Who would have ever thought the Kama Sutra would take the place of military guides ...

While I must admit the Kama Sutra does have some "shooting", "big bangs", and numerous "tactical positions" in the field of play. Compared to those in war, they are of an entirley different sort, where the climax of the drama leaves everyone feeling good.

Not bad for a thread on Bush & Iraq.

Holding a space for that high energy.

Saira,

The current Iraqi government, which was elected by the Iraqi people, has repeatedly said that they want the US to stay until the Iraqi army and police can control the situation. Iraq’s government has said they think the situation will get a lot worse if the U.S. leaves, and all the work that has been done up till now to establish a democratic government as well as an army and a police force will have been in vain if the U.S. leaves.

But I don’t know if anyone knows if the majority of Iraqis agree with the government on this issue. I think that if I was an Iraqi I would want the U.S. to stay until the situation has stabilized itself - if you don’t have a properly functioning army in the country let alone a police force, it’s inevitable that the civil war in Iraq will get a lot worse.

But I guess it all depends on who the Iraqi people are being influenced by the most. Are they getting objective information through the press or are they being influenced by extremist religious leaders?

Maybe the Iraqi government should have a referendum on the issue so they will know exactly what the Iraqi people think about the possibility of having the U.S. army leave.

It’s possible though, that Bush wants the Iraqis to say the US should get out of Iraq, so he can do that without having to suffer too much guilt as a consequence. If the U.S. leaves and the situation turns even worse than it is now (the civil war could spread to neighbouring countries since they also have ethnic or sectarian divisions), Bush could blame it on the Iraqis saying that they only left because the Iraqis asked them to.

Regards,

Lars

Tantric sex is where it's at...believe me.

You come out with that statement without any understanding at all of the situation in Iraq...

1) Most Iraqi's Need and Want the protection of the United Nations forces there to protect them from the small groups of Terrorists that are inhabiting Iraq.

2)If Britain and America pulled out of Iraq right now then an Evil that threatens the entire world would rise up and take control of Iraq's resources. These Resources Mostly Oil wells, will give these Terrorists a blank check to buy and build weapons that could blow me and you up.

What you do not understand here is that the problems that are being faced in Iraq are Global issues not just one country. The terrorist organizations in Iraq threaten everyone that lives in the civilized world.

Instead of worrying about what you look like with your hair in your face why don't you drop the pretence and pull your head out your Ars~e and look at real issues in the world instead of what the press are shoveling in the publics direction.

Simon

I couldn't add any more to either Simon or Lars
comments. Saira has expressed her feelings of "Make Love, Not War" and to invoke the memory of John Lennon Ono "Give Peace a Chance".

Memories of the left's glory days or daze.

Again she expressed her feelings, disregarding outcomes, a mere technicality.

We certainly did pull out of Vietnam and in a hurry. The result, a million Cambodians murdered in the killing fields.

The arguments for whether we should have invaded Iraq is now academic and will be debated for many years to come. The question is what do we do now, pull out a year from now at 10am or continue to have a presence there for years to come as we do in other parts of the world? And why would we want to do that?

On this Memorial Day weekend, my thoughts are with those brave men and women who gave their lives for the cause of freedom and liberty, two words rarely invoked on IB, certainly not in this blog.

Hey what the heck, it's all about feelings right?

Cheers,

Steve

Dear Saira,
Making love to the universe (that includes you) is where it's at (laughs)!
Todd

They will probably wake up Simon and lars when that happens. Maynot too. Those who don't understand the volatile delicate situation may very well pay the price.

Wait watch talk discuss then wait watch again, then talk then discuss at ib. Not much can be done otherwise when the future events unfold.

Apparently Saira, you have an ally in your demand for the US to leave Iraq, radical shiite cleric muqtada al sadir who recently appreared in public chanting:

"No, no for Satan. No, no for America. No, no for the occupation. No, no for Israel,"

Cheers,

Steve

This is a great subject and I would love to stay and debate, but I am on my way to.............

I hope you are still debating when I return, but for now I will have to leave you with this perspective that you should

Have NO FEAR, I think you are all safe. I had to take off my shoes at the airport and I hear that
TERRORISTS HATE the smell of feet!

Have a great weekend all.

"A thought born of fear should be discarded, a thought born of love embraced."

Who is that entity that discards a thought born of fear and thought born of love.Is there an observer separate from that which is observed?

Prabhakhar garu: All is one, one is all. Everything is everything. Something is something and nothing is nothing. Nothing comes out of nothing, but something or the other comes out of everything, therefore everything is everything. So we can deduce, everything can come from everything and henceforth the war. Is my logic clear?? LOL!

Self knowledge it must be
can you outshine dear guru?

Problems such as this one we are faced with in Iraq are not straight forward. I think we can all agree on that statement.

Like Steve says, arguing about if it were wrong or right to invade Iraq are not current any longer.

All we have are these Basic Facts on the Plus side and the down Side to look at and judge for ourself.

Plus Side.

1)The Bath Party and saddame are no longer in control of Iraq and murdering innocent people and holding Iraq and its people under a rule of terror.Possibly threatening the larger outside world in time.

2)Many Small and large separate Terror Networks operating in and around Iraq have been Thwarted.

3)The wealth of Iraq has been removed from the hands of those who would use it for their own benefit and also from those who would seek to inflict danger on the rest of the world by the use of this wealth and power.

4)The Wealth of Iraq will be restored back to the people of Iraq under the rule of an ellected and democratic government.

5)The majority of Iraq's people now have the chance to vote, get educated and build a new free and democratic Iraq for the people by the people.

Down Side.

1) Iraq has slipped into a temporary state of civil war between Sonny and Shiat tribes that live in the country.

2) Remaining Terror Networks in Iraq are targeting Innocent civilians and murdering them in cold blood in a desperate attempt to regain control of Iraq and send the country plunging back into darkness.

3) Coalition forces continue to suffer losses at the hands of cowardly terrorist attacks on peace keeping troops.

4) By the means of fear, aggression and cultural differences The people of Iraq are hampered in their journey forward. To their ultimate goal of a free, liberated and democratic state of Iraq.

5) Britain and The United States have spent billions of the tax payers money on the operation in Iraq. What progress can we see that all this loss of life and loss of money has achieved? Can we really put a price on a countries liberation? Was Iraq just simply an isolated problem that should have been left alone? Or was Iraq a ticking time bomb waiting to go off for the world?

So these are the five top issues, Both sides of the argument I have just written up for us. The question is... which side of the Argument carries the most weight?

It is very Difficult to say... both sides of the argument for and against are very strong.

I think it would be a disaster for the troops to pull out now. I think that is obvious.

Simon

Simon, in other words simply "Royally screwed up state".

I find it comical that those who have supported Bush in going to war no longer want to discuss that decision. They say that there is no point. There is no point in discussing a decision that has put hundreds of thousands of Americans and other civilians in harm's way??

Can anyone honestly tell me that the true intent of our President was freedom and liberty? My brother believed that when he first went to Iraq to fight. He believed in his commander in chief. He no longer does, and neither do most of his buddies. If those who have been made to put their life on the line in the name of freedom no longer believe in the cause...how can we?

Osama and his friends turned the tables on Bush Melissa very badly. They grossly underestimated Iraq.

>>You come out with that statement without any understanding at all of the situation in Iraq...>Instead of worrying about what you look like with your hair in your face why don't you drop the pretence and pull your head out your Ars~e and look at real issues in the world>>

Rude.

Melissa,

Please thank your brother for his service, and if you care to explain in more detail what exactly changed his mind about the war, that would be enlightening since we rarely hear dissent with an explaination.

I wonder why he enlisted in the first place?

How long was in Iraq?

Did something traumatic happen to him over there?

What is he doing now?

Just curious,

thanks,

Steve

Rude Indeed,

If there is one thing that gets my goat... then it is Pretentiousness.

I recently criticized a man for having a a pretentious name here on this blog... and the same goes for those who have hair dangling in their face.

Who on earth do these people think they are? Should these artificial people be posting here on Intentblog?... serious conversation posted by vain Morons.

Those who can not write a poem, nor build a machine or simply warm the hearts of millions chose pretense to be somebody. Climb Mountains or row an ocean they try to be recognized.

How real are you?..... Get your HAIR out of your eyes plastic woman or tell me otherwise.

Regards

Someone with a heart beat and not just an ego! xx xx

We need a Diablo intervention here.

Hi Steve,

My brother left a good job to enlist when he was 28 years old right after 9/11. He thought it was his duty to help protect this country from another attack.

Shortly after he completed basic and additional specialized training, the war began. As a member of the National Guard he was sent to Iraq and was in the Baghdad area for well over a year. He has not shared all of his stories and I don't feel right in saying too much. But, yes, he was in very dangerous situations and had many close calls. He felt horrible for many of the "kids" that were there. He'd say, "Melissa, some of them are barely 18 and they just joined the Army to get out of bad situations back home." (gangs, poverty, abuse) They were told several times that they would be coming home. They were even packed once and on a truck heading to Kuwait when they had to turn around and go back. These types of things happened regularily.

My brother is home, but he suffers from insomnia and depression. And the same is true of most in his unit. Some were also badly injured. Most agree that we were not prepared to do whatever it was that Bush thought we should do. And they say that our news does not even come close to depicting what is really going on and how much the civilians are suffering.

I could go on. But it seems that you are a supporter of the war and I do not wish to engage in any type of debate.

My brother now works with troubled teens, but is expecting a call any day to go back to Iraq. His unit is next in our area to return. He and his new wife are adopting a child from South Africa, and that is expected to go through any time as well.

Peace and Love, Melissa

Bush said today that "We'll Leave Iraq If They Ask Us".
...so why can't the world convince Iraq to ask?

so the world is now going to guarantee internal security and a guarantee against safe-haven for terrorists and further law-and-order break down?

So the voice of this "world" doesn't include the majority of Iraqis?

God! I hate vague, ambiguous, convoluted, meaningless or silly questions. If you have some ideas to share, present them. Then we can have a focussed dialogue.

I think Hypocrite and Simon_Freejohn should get together and throw spitballs at each other instead of at everyone else. Though I'm guessing you are not much open to suggestions, I'm going to present one anyway. If you don't care for the question or the person presenting it, simply ignore it and move on. Why allow yourself to become so angry and hateful? Isn't that how we got into this whole mess in the first place?

Peace and Love, Melissa

"Why allow yourself to become so angry and hateful? Isn't that how we got into this whole mess in the first place?"

That is cognitive dissonance. A fallacy and an attribution error or bias.

A deluded mind's suggestion.

Dear Hypocrite.

Heather has a couple of links to some music on Open Thread. Let's Dance!!

Love and Peace. Melissa

Why all the rudeness? Can't we at least be civil to each other?
I enjoy most of the comments and I do have my own opinon
but I also enjoy hearing others' opinions. The world is pretty
screwed up so can't we have debate without all the rancor?

Sure Yellowrosy, please express your views ON TOPIC, we will then have a decent debate. More noise doesn't help, does it? What's the point complaining about how screwed up is, use your head and present some constructive ideas.

http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=37913

Read this article Hyp, it's very good. It says the bush admin did have the Intell report before invading, but they didn't care.

Typical war games at best. See how they try to screw each other.

Simon,
Your response to my post "Why can't the world convince Iraq to ask?" were the words "You come out with that statement without any understanding at all of the situation in Iraq..." When I read that i thought: Doesn't Simon know the difference between a 'statement' and a 'question'?

Then you go on to say that "the one thing that gets my goat...is Pretentiousness", and then comment "How real are you? Get your HAIR out of your eyes plastic woman or tell me otherwise."

The thought that jumped to my mind was: Golly, doesn't Simon's goat get caught by idea of arbitrary assumptions and erroneous conclusions?

Make Love not War!

Mellisa,

You can't beat a bit a Good slagging match dear. Why don't you insult me?

Go on I know you want to.....

LOL

Dear Simon.

No insults in me today.

However, the next time I'm feeling miserable and unhappy, I'll be sure to let you know. (Please forward a picture so that I can unleash any insecurities and anger I might have by making judgments based on your physical appearance.)

There is the most Beautiful Monarch Butterfly outside my window at this exact moment. Today, I'm going to go play.

Peace and Love, Melissa

Dear Melissa,

There is a picture of me on my Type Key profile.... I am the big hairy guy.

LOL

Forward my picture? OK where do you want it forwarded to?

Please try to keep your insults as personal as possible!

LOL.

Saira.....

I am sorry for being so nasty to you,

I just can't help myself. Really.

Maybe you can think of a penance for me and I will be sure to consider paying it!

Love

The Hairy Monster xx xx

That sounds like a great plan Melissa!, Richard is visiting the land of Enchantment this weekend, and I think we'll go find your butterfly and follow it for a bit.
Come, lets do a little play!
Have a bright day with many unexpected blessings!
LOL
Tammy
V

Yes Simon...we can kiss and make up. : )

quite unexpected we later came upon about 60 exotic butterflies, it's amazing how they came into our reality, it's in the video

The we asked to see something we never saw before and we saw a snake tree. It has no snakes the coloring and patterns in the wood itself look like snakes and other things it is like natural art, never seen anything like it. Also in the vide.

MMMMWWWWWAAAAAAAAAA! Saira

friends it shall be xx xxx

Hi Simon,
hands across the border
reaching to you
~ Kate

Dear Saira,
I am remembering one special young man, who lost his life in Iraq. Andy was killed on a bridge when his tank was showered with enemy fire as he and his unit were entering Baghdad. He was two weeks shy of 19.

He wanted so much to attend college. Andy had earned a full academic scholarship to FSU.

He joined the Marine Corps Reserves before his senior year in highschool, before September 11, 2001 and before there was any knowledge of an invasion of Iraq.

He didn't think he would be called on immediately to serve. His parents didn't think he would serve until after he finished college. But he was activated right away, and was part of the 4th Marine Assault Amphibian Battalion.

Andy and his convoy were making their way across the Tigris River in the seige of Baghdad, on April 7, 2003. He lost his life that day.

He is most in my thoughts this weekend, and his Mom and Dad miss him so very much.

Love,
~ Kate

Hi Kate,

I know I am a bit slow and all but "Hands Accross the Border?"

Not sure what context you mean that in... You do know that I live in the UK and the nearest border to where I am is with Scotland?.....

or do you mean a different kind of Border?

Regards

Hairy xx xx

Hi Jean-François, very nice post #3

Bush is either a jerk or a fool. Iraq is a senseless tragedy. Leave the troops in, pull them out - what will spare more lives now? I hope that the American's who voted for this war & president are feeling the sweet kiss of freedom. Everybody else knows that this entire war didn't do anything but make a lot of money for those that engineered it. The republicans can't even keep the lies a secret anymore and still, the president is not impeached, the crooks are still at the helm, and the little people are fighting each other over semantics. Well done world rulers! Enjoy your new yachts and penthouses, not to mention your record profits from oil.

Moon2020,

Have you ever thought of writing Science fiction books or Fantasy adventures?

I bet you Like Conspiracy theories about aliens coming to earth and kidnapping people for experiments on their brains and stuff and the one abot JFK being done in by the CIA. And how Bigfoot is really some government experiment that has gone horribly wrong.

Oh yeah and what about the one that McDonalds use Turnip in their apple pies instead of real apple?

You heard that one yet?

Here is a real life storey for you...... Imagine if America and the UK did not go into Iraq and sort out Saddame and his cronies ok?

Now imagine people dying.... in the scale of millions...not hundreds or thousands but millions worldwide as a result of a country like Iraq being exploited by terrorists becoming nuclear.

People do not start wars and cause the death of thousands to get rich you f00l! What planet are you on Son?

Who on earth makes this stuff up!

Those apples are certifiably apples dear, I just at one the other day!
V