That's great news Mallika! It means your endeavor is a succesfull challenge to the status quo.

Rejection by a Christian Radio station is a true measure of the greatness of your content.

Remember attempts to suppress have the opposite effect and raise it up.

Bless you. I think I might get a copy of it now.

Hahaha! is this for real?Wow! this sounds like something that would happen in India.Guess prejudice is a universal thing afterall.

What they called darkness was really the light, and what claimed to be the light was really darkness.

Dear Mallika,
Sorry your day didn't start off as expected. I live in Virginia Beach where The Association of Research and Enlightenment as well as The Heritage Store sell lots of books. I bought all my copies of Deepak's books at The Heritage. I will see if I can get your book in those places. If I go there and order it then they may keep it on the shelves.
Todd

Maillika -- You've been found out! Secretly trying to poison the minds of young Christians with your voodoo! Fostering understanding, compassion, and inclusoin in children! Outlandish!

Yeah SVN, that is what America has come to in the recent yrs. Shocking! The most developed nation which has shown the way to the world, still shows in many fronts, is in this state. No wonder Dawkins and the likes have taken their mission so seriously.

Sometime, I may wish to talk in detail, how misdirected are some of the science followers who keep cutting the posts here. I doubt, if there is one single soul here on this blog, who believes in one religion. Ideally you should be all made to sit in a bus and taken to churches, rt there in america and the good ones then promoted to Islamic countries to teach science over their bigoted faiths.

"Perhaps part of my acceptance needs to be that there way is "right" too? But how do I explain that to my children..."

And there is the question I ask each day. Thank you for all you have done to help me to answer it.

With Love and Peace, Melissa

Dear Mallika,

I am so sorry to hear about your unfortunate experience. That's the way it is with fundamentalist in any religion and it is a sad state.

I am somewhat of a rebel and I know I probably should not do this, as I am a Christian in my basic core beliefs, which has expanded to include all faith that ring true to my heart.

But what I do since I am surrounded by fundamentalist at work and at home and anywhere else that I go .... I wear the Wica symbol as a ring and today I am displaying my Wica symbol with a fierce dragon, which is quite beautiful. It's all silver as I love silver and I can afford it.

You will not believe the harshness that I have had to endure and most of it is silent at work due to US discrimination laws protecting differences. Plus, Wica is a recognized religion by the government. My first experience was that I was verbally attacked by a supermarket clerk and from there, it continues with the 'evil eye' the usual weapon of choice, which really hurts my heart to see people's reaction to an object vs. the real person. What is funny and most true ... no one will say anything to, nor ask me questions (except for that one bad incident).

You see I had studied the Wica religion, as well as many of the other religions with no TV or movies for 5 years, i.e., of course the basics, as there is just too much to cover and it is a life time project. I haven't read the Quran yet, but will one day.

Anyway .... low and behold, when I rented my first movies in over 5 years, I had to buy a DVD, as VCR movies no longer existed! That was a shocker. There were these really crazy movies made about Wica and the symbol that were Hollywood created that depicted Wica in a bad light and nothing like the true religion. So people are made to fear the religion, as they think what is seen at the movies is the truth! People believe movies about things they do not understand, even if it's false. It's so incredibly and amazingly sad.

Well ... that's my 2 cents for what it's worth.

Oh ... and I forgot to mention for almost 11 months, I get these Bible solicitors knocking on my door every Sunday to where last Saturday, I had to put up a "NO Solicitors" sign! I know I am being targeted by some of my names as the solicitors are only knocking on my door, but I cannot prove it. My middle sister would even set something like this up, but I will never know. So I continue to get harassed by the fundamentalist Christians, but I will not give up as in my heart, if I must be the one to desensitize people, I will play my very little part. I don't think it's doing any good, because I am automatically judged as being bad or evil and no one even questions me. Even my family thinks wrongly of me, as I try to share with them that I believe the same God that belongs to us all and I so dearly love Jesus Christ and the love he represented.

Well....I going to shut my mouth right now.

Love,
Char

Mallika:

I often wonder when I see the giant Compaq stadium in Houston turned into the Lakewood Church and the millions that pastors earn.. Here are some of the questions that come in my mind:

If Jesus turned up today with a different face (say a Sudanese face) but with the same attire and state....

1. do you think he will be allowed into any of the Churches of the world?

2. would he be able (allowed?) to meet the Pope?

With so many people convincingly arguing on how would "Jesus do this", it would be fairly tough for Him to get a word by.. wouldn't it?

When the clergy takes over as the Gods-conscious, you know they have shut God out of their houses.

That lady at the station demo-ed her insecurity.. insecurity from her Jesus being harmed by your kids' questions..

... and that is what shows the misfortune of Jesus most!!

Cheers,
Desh
Drishtikone.com

The dark-light face has been found
The black-white spells casted by theirs eyes, has been suffered
No needs to look in the news, satisfaction from their miseries.

Free times
Swimming in the depth
Of you and me

I know what I should do or not do
Children running, not listening in your church
I do not fit in your scheduled plans.

----

All around me, I see what weakness has made
Too much tomorrow, I think Ill take all today
Am I a poison, am I a thorn in the side
Am I a picture perfect subject tonight

And I dont need nobody
And I dont need the weight of words
To find a way to crash on through
And I dont need nobody
And I just need to learn the depth
Or doubt of faith to fall into

Here I slumber to awaken my daze
I find convenience in this savior I save
Am I a prison, am I a source of dire news
Am I a picture perfect reason for you

And I dont need nobody
And I dont need the weight of words
To find a way to crash on through
I dont need nobody
And I just need to learn the depth
Or doubt of faith to fall into

In this time of substitute
Its my needs Ive answered to
All the while
And all the hope that I invest
Turns to signals of distress
All the while

I dont need nobody
And I dont need the weight of words
To find a way to crash on through
And I dont need nobody
I just need to learn the depth
Or doubt of faith to fall into

Doo doo doo doo doo, youre a lightning
Doo doo doo doo doo, yeah, when the water runs deep
Doo doo doo doo doo, yeah, youre a lightning
Doo doo doo doo doo, now I cry my soul to sleep...

Aloha Mallika

I loved hearing Esther Hicks tell Oprah that she is way over it, when asked how she felt when Abraham was cut out of The Secret.

If you haven't heard Oprah's radio show of the interviews: http://borntomanifest.com/oprah.html

We are all learning to be open to a broader perspective. I hope you told them you would pray for them:) to be conscious of the part of them that is you! love patty

You know I am tired of all this, the world as it is must come to an end. So I have plan.

You know have I have this thought I would put everything I have written over the last 15 years on the web all part of the Infinite Play with links to sites such as this. So when everyone comes to read the story they will find there way.

Then I will fly to Israel and I will have a couple videographers and we will announce the unfolding story maybe I can stream it live over the Internet.

I will walk onto the middle of a battlefield, dressed in white, so every can see my blood as the bullets hit me, and if they don’t shoot me I will take away their guns and give them a kiss on the cheek.

It will be a great story and statement and I will return to my bliss and release myself the curse of feeling the worlds pain as well as my own.

Maybe it will draw the world’s attention to the divine concept and there will be Peace. I am sure if there is a God he will be watching and if there are extraterrestrials they will be watching as well we will see if they will intervene. That would certainly shift the world's focus.

We will put all this theory about God, Reality and Illusion to the test.

That’s my plan but I have a few things to take care of first some more video to shoot and people to interview, a few projects to intitiate, funny I had this call out of the blue related to one just as I write this that new bulding technology.

I have hundred thousand dollars on my credit line that should cover the costs. I will take all my material that can be later compiled into a movie and the proceeds will go to a foundation.

You see if my body is destroyed there will no longer separating me from all of you I will have a presence in all your minds.

All part of the Infinite Play. This will be my gift to the world. But I do have some selfish motives. If there is reincarnation I know I will be reborn into a better place.

Then again I might live and end up kissing a lot of people on the cheek, and there will be Peace.

The Divine Willing

I will keep everyone updated on my blog.

I think were all doing drama here at the blog today!
I guess, it would be a pretty clear picture as to why folks do,say,and write such, All seek Love, and since Love is all, that would include anything to get attention, Hmmmm I wonder.....

Richard smile and wave everyones watching silly!lol

I Love all... Lots of kisses Ravi
V

Dear Mallika Chopra

A wise man once told me that if you are interested in your children's real growth, don't tell them "what" to think. If you can, then, simply guide 'provoke'/'simulate' them in thinking in new ways.

Answers have to come from their mind. . .
And not from yours and their answers don't necessarily be same answer as yours. Your job is simply to provoke them to think in new ways by challenging/breaking the ways they think now.

Dear Mallika,
As my dear friends tell me when Im not understanding situations and such, " The divine is always present and at work, even if it seems its fallen asleep." More importantly what did this mornings encounter allow you to see? maybe only thought, but remember we chose what is happening moment by moment as so.
Its always nice to hear your thoughts.

Love and blessings to you and yours,
Tammy
V

umm... that was mighty christian of them, huh?!

“I am reading the autobiography of Somalian born Dutch parliament member, Ayaan Hirsi Ali. The book is called Infidel and I have been unable to put it down. Ms. Ali discusses how her Islamic upbringing shaped a personal psychology that was unable to question and challenge the status quo. Her journey to empowerment, to finding her voice, is inspiring and brings up so many more questions about how societies around the world create cultural, religious and ethnic fractions, fear, racism, sexism, abuse.”

But Mallika, this is the problem with teaching children any single religion or new age stuff. We are robbing our children of the ability to think for themselves and make up their own mind. We should all question the status quo, including religion, tradition, revelation and authority but with honesty and sincerity.

Look what the IB gurus are doing? Are they not pretending to know the unknowable? Pretending to have found a way to override the laws of physics. Are they not pretending to know that there is a life after death? Are they not proud that their audience is getting younger? Can you see that they too are doing irreparable damage to gullible minds?

Yes, one could make the argument that any teacher of religion is doing the same thing. But your dad pretends to use science in his attempt to sway the gullible into his camp. I my view, he calling the world’s leading evolutionary biologist, Richard Dawkins, a bigot, seems to be much more disingenuous than me saying one cannot bend metal with ones mind.

You cannot have it both ways, things are either true or not true, especially in physics, there is no argument about the truth. A scientist is constantly looking for the truth through the scientific method. A scientist is not interpreting some old book that makes all sorts of miracle claims without presenting any evidence at all.

A scientist is not a pretender.

-Skeptisch

Reposted from
http://carlsagan.wordpress.com/

I certainly sympathize with you and your experience of closed minds. This is a predominant failing of the Western mind. We are taught that our way is the best way and are not encouraged to appreciate the wisdom to be found in other world cultures.

Last night I saw a program about Jehovah's Witnesses on PBS. They are an exclusive group and are not tolerant of any diversion from their belief system. They censure and throw out of their exclusive membership anyone who dares question their straight and narrow belief system.

This is so stupid. We should all be looking for knowledge from the many religions of the world. In many ways we can benefit from the cultures which have preceded ours. Through the ages many of the original teachings of wisdom have been misinterpreted and edited by the organized religious factions.

It's a shame to have to witness closed minds and to have to combat them.

Dear Mallika,

Thank you for sharing your open-hearted story today. Perhaps some of us have eyes to see more of the whole than some others do. Perhaps in this seeing we can lift others up and out of old stuck patterns of limitation. Let's be grateful that we see differently and know that the very nature of gratitude brings rays of hope for Mother Earth's children...of all ages.

Trish (grandmother of two, ages 7 & 2)

I agree to large extent with you Mr Ricky,I've read your several other posts as well..After reading Mallika's post I am reminded of an incident that happened when I was in UK.My friend asked me if I'd like to join her for mass at the church and I agreed since I am beleiver of Christ although I am a hindu.I've been brought up in a secular n evolved environment where we respect every faith as we do ours.I respect all relgions.So I went along with her and I met the priest at the church and she introduced me to him as her friend who was visiting from India.He was pleased to meet me and we started conversing about the love for the lord etc.I told him I was a believer of Jesus Christ and have been raised in a Convent school so I know the prayers etc.In the midst of the conversation he asked me since you love jesus so much why don't you convert to christianity?.I was amused with that unexpected question and I paused and said sure I don't mind converting but there is a problem.He said "what?" I said 'My soul is a hindu,do you know how to convert a soul???"

I sometimes wonder why humanity is not a religion.I have friends who often talk about the judgment day and how all hell will break loose.I don't worry about judgment day, i can't worry about a day which I have never seen or experienced but I do worry about the next time I kneel in front of god and pray to him because I feel I should be worthy to be in his presence and recite my prayers.I rather worry about how I should be now than be bothered what music am going to face on judgment day.

True SVN, religion is totally into separation. My faith your faith, my god your god. Then in religion we have endless no: of sects. See what is happening in Punjab. Sacha dera sauda. What Sacha, what Sauda? no? LOL! and What a Dera too!!

Did you study in Grammar school, All saints, Methodist? Which one?

Yes,its hurtful to see what is happening in Punjab.You switch on the tv and you see hundreds of your countrymen with swords on the road,what is one to think? to believe? to imagine?.New age self proclaimed gurus brainwashing everyone.Like you said what sacha? what sauda? I absolutely agree with you.I read a post where the writer narrated a story of the sufi saint Bulla shah who questioned his teacher once ,what is the need to wash your hands n feet before prayers when the heart is only unclean? V profound and v true.I am into real estate and I cannot count the amount of time these self proclaimed gurus have approached us for deals where they can grow their money and invest in all sorts of businesses.They are flushed with funds even those who proclaim not to take donations or charities are doing fantastically well.I know of guru's who refuse to travel in anything but merc's n bmw's and stay in villas when they are abroad..There is no harm in loving materials but atleast don't preach other wise.

Sir,why have you asked if I've studied in a Grammar School?

In reply to Char4 wearing the Wicca symbol:

I have sometimes worn a Tilak (the orange spot on the forehead) or an Aum in public. I wouldn't call myself Hindu but I do visit a Hindu temple and find peace there.

I've found that response here in the UK has generally been neutral or positive. Some of that could be in me because by I am showing an aspect of my life very clearly that often I feel the need to hide. If people are happy to talk to me I assume they're happy with who I am because that marking is clear to see. (It's also something to live up to)

Response from Christians varies. Most seem to accept that I can find my own way. Some try to convert me but generally give up and fall by the wayside. I have visited churches (though not yet with the tilak) and also enjoyed those.

This book looks great by the way. I've added to my list of books to buy and keep.

Dear Malika,
My children are grown and there is no site of grandchildren on the way yet....BUT....I think the rejection of the christian radio is a POSITIVE sign that your book must be WONDERFUL and I'll be sure to pick up a copy!!

Namaste

I recently saw an interview with Ayaan Hirsi Ali. The TV studio was packed with bodyguards and she said that she hoped her critics could agree with her over one thing - that physical violence is not an acceptable response. If we can agree over that, she said, then we can discuss all the other issues. To many of us that would be a very low standard for civilty, that's how relative things are...

Mallika,

I think you might be right, like everyone else, you probably need to accept that not everyone thinks like you do. I don't know if the radio station was offended as you say, they could have felt threatened or they maybe were just ignorant of what your message actually is. There are so many possible reasons for why they refused to discuss your book. Did you ask them why? Sometimes I find myself so caught up in my story that I forget to ask the other about theirs and just assume things.

Anyway, to me, compassion, understanding and inclusion imply that I always remember that my story is just as much a mind- product as anyone's. When you realize that we all are dreaming a world, you have compassion for everyone including yourself, and can't really insist that something is more right than something else.

"You cannot have it both ways, things are either true or not true, especially in physics, there is no argument about the truth. A scientist is constantly looking for the truth through the scientific method." post # 17

Dear Seeker,

You say/quote someone saying that things are either true or untrue, and that there is no argument about the truth in physics.

May I ask, when a scientist is looking for the truth, is he/she not always risking to find another truth that is even more true than the old truth? Or do they see to it that they hold on tightly to a truth and avoid finding another, because that would make the old truth untrue???

Isn't science a sincere, open search for truth that sometimes requires us to let go of old truths if another truth opens up to us as our understanding grows?

If you say that there is no argument about truth in science, then isn't that kind of science just pretending to do research?

To most questions, the answer is "yes and no".

Present a question to a mind and it will reside in it until the answer is revealed.

I asked Tammy, who had brought it up yes & no, answers, did you coin the phrase "Yes and No"?

She replied, "Yes and No"

In that answer is a great truth.

But to answer Yes OR No is polarization, and it's like wearing sunglasses, only part of the light gets through creating a shadow in your mind, and impaired full comprehension.

So answer yes and no, and then, yes you will Know more than those that answer yes or no.

Yes and No demonstrates an integrated holistic answer.

Is a photon a particle? Yes and No is the answer that yields the truth.

Mallika writes: "Obviously I think that is the "right" way to do things. But, something in my book obviously offended this Christian radio station. Perhaps part of my acceptance needs to be that there way is "right" too?"

As used here, what does the word "right" mean?

You asked, "but how do I explain that to my children."

1. For the above issue, I think the religious topic blinds one to thinking out of the box. Out of the box thinking to answer what to tell children would be education, education, education.

2. News reporting. News is very different from features. News is who, what, when, where and how. An educated child can hear the above story and realize you were scheduled, not told, left waiting, and rejected under the guise of a human being who is calling themselves a christian.

3. Separate the people behavior from the group they claim to be in.

4. Antagonistic people may have ulterior motives to escalate situations to emotional reaction for financial gain. Such people use groups and give groups a bad name.

When I was growing up we had 2 phrases I heard a lot. "To each their own." and "Live and let live."

I respect your father's work and as a child I read the King James Bible, went to Sunday school, and attended church. There were a lot of people in the church I found gossipy and judgmental. There were some nice people, too. We never got grades in church. You did not have a prove understanding, that you studied, or could retain the information. The leaders of a Sunday school class did not have to have credentials. They just had to be volunteers with a drive.

Education, you see, is different.

Thank you for the info on Infidel. It sounds like a very good topic to explore of being raised with a psychology that can cripple potential, how that can happen, and waking up to it.

Let us not doubt there is a mysterious force at work.

Today on The View you know with Rosie O’Donnell they were going to do a show on all the questions and empirical evidence supporting the idea that it may not all have happened exactly as said.

So what happens, President Bush decides to do a news conference at the exact same time and Rosie, mysteriously does not make it to the show.

Sounds suspicious, did they try to usurp everyone’s attention so the show could not be viewed? Did some unfortunate event occur to keep Rosie away? Was it not humans orchestrating but some mysterious force, like we have in Infinite Play?

Even if they did the effect is not what they intended now everyone is talking about it even more, it looks even more like they are trying to hide something. Then again they may be totally innocent and perhaps some mysterious force manipulated everything to create the Illusion that they were hiding something so that everyone would look?

WHAT IS THE TRUTH?

Of course as you may all have figured that those connected to The Source may know what happened on 9/11. They might say for example the truth is that the plan was known but allowed to be executed because they believed it wise a few may perish so that they may save the many. In their minds, although it may have been a fiction, they saw a threat, from a fundamentalist belief, which produced fear. They acted on their fear and allowed it to happen.

Since they do not qualify as evil, (there is no such thing) and wanted to reduce causalities, and wanted to bring the buildings down safely. They planned a bunch of “exercises on that day” so that people would be in place to help; they also rewired the buildings for detonation to bring them down safely with as little mess and causality as possible.

Of course some with foreknowledge tried to take advantage of it and did a little unusual trading on the market and perhaps warned a few friends. Indications of these subtle events raised the first flags that something. What they did not know in all there vast intelligence was that someone was actually monitoring these types of trades.

This triggered further investigation.

From The Source of Course.

Everything that happens is in divine order and so are the consequences.

They did what they thought was right and I don’t think we can condemn someone when they are doing what they think is right. Can we?

"If you say that there is no argument about truth in science, then isn't that kind of science just pretending to do research?"

No. Science has no argument over the concept of "truth". It is not the "Truth"( with a capital T) or the Absolute or Absolute Truth that Skeptisch was talking about. The Absolute is a philosophical concept. The "truth" of science is the truth which keeps the known physical laws true, keeps the apple falling down each and every time you perform the experiment.

"May I ask, when a scientist is looking for the truth, is he/she not always risking to find another truth that is even more true than the old truth? Or do they see to it that they hold on tightly to a truth and avoid finding another, because that would make the old truth untrue???"

Old truths of science are not made untrue. That is a wrong concept. You talked about better approximations of truths. Scientific theories talk about degree of confidence in a new theory. If the theory explains the observed data to a high degree of accuracy then the theory is true to a high degree. The theory cannot be called Absolutely True becuase we cannot test the theory for all possible, known and unknown conditions. We say the theory is true under these conditions and scientific method validates it to a high degree of accuracy. If in case in the future some data is observed which cannot be explained by the theory, then the theory is modified, the theory doesn't become"untrue" or "false" as you say.

"Isn't science a sincere, open search for truth that sometimes requires us to let go of old truths if another truth opens up to us as our understanding grows?"

We don't let go of the old truths, we modify them in the face of evidence. Newton laws of motion are old truths but we didn't let go of them. They remain truths for what they are applicable even now. Newtons laws are highly accurate for the conditions for which it is applied. To explain certain other phenomenons like radioactivity and black body radiations, new theories were postulated which became Relativity theories and Quantum mechanics. These new theories explain the observations more accurately.

And that's why we have the scientific method. And for a theory to be valid or true it has to ascertained by the scientific method. Science is a tool which doesn't pretend to know the Absolute.

"You cannot have it both ways, things are either true or not true, especially in physics, there is no argument about the truth. A scientist is constantly looking for the truth through the scientific method. A scientist is not interpreting some old book that makes all sorts of miracle claims without presenting any evidence at all." Skeptisch

Yes, there is no argument over truth in physics, an apple always falls down. It is on the branch or on the ground. It doesn't remain in mid air - dillydallying with truth.

If we are sitting together and an apple falls from the tree. I might ask you did the apple fall from the tree?

The finite minded may answer yes. They infinite minded may answer yes and no.

Why?

The apple did nothing, it simply exists, gravity is what did all the doing. So the apple did nothing.

Are you an apple and God is the gravity?

So now we are ready to ask.

ARE YOU GOD?

yes and no.

Hi Richard C.,

I enjoyed your story and I am glad that you have had good experiences with wearing the Tilak. And you and other's are correct in that different Christian are different people with different tolerant levels.

I have visited many protestant churches when I was younger and it was always for the search for the one with the fun activities for children.

Personally, I believe in the goodness and truth of all religions or non-religious groups with a desire to seek the truth in love and peace.

Did you know that the basic faith of Christianity is that if you are not physically baptized in water or by sprinkling in the name of the Holy Spirit, in the exact manner that they do it, by an ordained priest who apparently is the only one who can give you salvation in this specific manner that you are going to go to hell forever and never have a chance of heaven? And they believe in a real lake of burning fire that torments one forever.

In principle, it's right so it would be unfair to the Christian religion to say otherwise, but not literally like the babies believe and in the manner that they think it must be done. It's like the babies are practicing and one day they will obtain the understanding of the ritual when they are ready, i.e., when more grown up. So yes, one does go thru that whole process as we all do, but it is more of the ritual or process of the spirit within and anyone can and does accomplish this with desire to know themselves. God does not judge whether one is worthy over another, as all are loved very deeply.

But I can tell you this, Spirit (or God) does protect the babies just as a parent would protect a new born child from a toddler, and the Christians know this, as it is put within them, same as with all. So when a baby spits on a toddler or pees and sh-ts on a more grown up child and if that toddler strikes the baby, that toddler better watch the backhand of the parent of all the children!

So what does one do, but cultivate tolerance and help with the care and growth of the babies. I am sure we have all seen mad, angry babies who are hungry and/or dirty. It's not a pretty sight. We have to tend to the babies and put them to sleep in a happy state, as we attempt to wake them gently.

Oh BTW, I am still a baby, but I do sometimes open one of my eyes for a second or two :-) I prefer sleeping as it is sweet, but there comes a point in time when one cannot continue to sleep, if they have any consciousness at all to do what is right and good for all. And if one tries to stay asleep, they will toss and turn in the night as the parent gently blows kisses upon the beloved children's tender cheeks, as the delight of the parent engulfs the world when a child smiles upon the light of love and joy.

Love, Char

If I kick shit out of you,
are you an ass and devil in the boot?
Am I God?
Yes, to you. No, in the court of Law.

So that being said, fear is the Anti-christ; you must eliminate the fear in your mind and the fear in the mind of your “apparent” enemy. There is One Way to do this, and One thing that will do this. A single truth, a realization, about who you and they really are when not subscribing to fictions.

If we do this everything will work out just fine, everywhere, in everyway.

NO FEAR

Richard

You could also ask in the conversation:

If you're the apple, how high on the tree do you hang?

Are you on the highest limb or a lower one?

Is there an apple on the top of the tree?
(look at an apple tree sometime)

How high on the tree would you have to hang before you hit your head on the sky?

How far would you have to fall before you hit the ground?

Now we can ask

Are these values ABsolute? Yes? No?

Bonnie

Clarification: When I say in theory, it's right (baptism). It is because I believe that that it represents the acceptance of our higher Self or evolution and water represents rebirth from physical into the spiritual realms and the spirit is the fire! So we except this part of ourselves in, which is what the Christian baptism is really all about. For me, it is God/Spirit/Self/Etc. - anything of a higher consciousness of love, peace, goodness, beauty and joy. Hell is the graveyard, i.e., one dies physically and then gets a chance to do it all over again in a physical body until they get it right and evolve to a point to where the physical body is no longer needed for evolution. And sweet heaven is found within as God is found within and is not out there. The Bible states many times this fact and Jesus said that if anyone says that if anyone says I see or saw the Christ come, don't believe them. However, the Christ does come in a great cloud of thunder, etc and cannot be missed means, when one is touched by the power of God within, it will be great! Well I could talk more on all this, but I think I've said enough. All the truths are right there in the regular KJV of the Bible and one only has to pray for understanding and truly want it and it will be revealed to them. But it can and will be very painful and tear one apart before they are healed and whole as Jesus saids in the Thomas Gospel. This breaking of the clay pot, is not an experience many can handle, nor desire to endure, but it will nonetheless take place with all the little children of the whole wide world when they are ready. God loves all the children very much, so only a loving God would endure with such great patience and mercy as he (he for me) tenderly watches and tends to his beloved babies.

Well, I have certainly said enough. I just think God is so very amazing and I love God so very much because he so loves me and all the little children of the whole wide world.

Love, Char

BTW: I certainly was not stating that the Bible had the only truth, only that it is one truth, as I am aware of the truths in all religions. In short, there are many great spiritual books and literate and the true Absolute is the same in all things, all people, all texts, all animals, all plants, all trees, all rocks, all rivers, all fish, and beyond - in the ALL.

Now, I am done... I think ;-)

Love, Char

There are different laws for different levels of consciousness and those laws are binding at the specific level of awareness that they apply to.

Love, Char

My apple example was to explain truth as related to to science and the validity of the Law of Gravity.

You are free to argue like amateur philosophers on subjectivity, objectivity and Truth. This can go on forever but Law of Gravity remains a Law and is true till you can "physically" prove the contrary rather than argue endlessly philosophically.

I also request others to keep the discussion focussed on Mallika Chopra's post rather than go wild with philosophical debates.

Thankyou.

PS: Dear Aurora, I am sorry my answer to your question is dragged into metaphors, jokes and divergent discussion to Mallika's intent.

I hope you understood what Skeptisch meant with truth as regards to science and pretending to know th ultimate Truth, which the scientists don't do. That was th intent of his post. I am sorry he is not here to clarify his points as it seems that he is being moderated. I know you are the one who appreciates true science and the difference between your's and Skeptisch view is more of semantics than anything. Lets end this discussion here than to fuel others to spew nonsense jokes and philosophy which has little to do with scientific method or Chopra's intent.

Thanks for your answer, Seeker :) Allow me to ask further.

"No. Science has no argument over the concept of "truth". It is not the "Truth"( with a capital T) or the Absolute or Absolute Truth that Skeptisch was talking about. The Absolute is a philosophical concept. The "truth" of science is the truth which keeps the known physical laws true, keeps the apple falling down each and every time you perform the experiment."

So if the truth of science is not absolute but is keeping the KNOWN physical laws true, does that mean that to depart from the isle of the known and research the ocean of the not-yet-known, you have to allow that truth to be flexible? In other words, to affirm "As far as I know NOW, the apple always keeps falling down"? In the way someone long ago departed from the KNOWN truth of the earth being obviously flat to another, more expanded truth?

"Old truths of science are not made untrue. That is a wrong concept. You talked about better approximations of truths. Scientific theories talk about degree of confidence in a new theory. If the theory explains the observed data to a high degree of accuracy then the theory is true to a high degree. The theory cannot be called Absolutely True becuase we cannot test the theory for all possible, known and unknown conditions. We say the theory is true under these conditions and scientific method validates it to a high degree of accuracy. If in case in the future some data is observed which cannot be explained by the theory, then the theory is modified, the theory doesn't become"untrue" or "false" as you say. "

That was wonderful to know, thank you. This means, as I see it, that science considers a theory to be (very likely) true under certain conditions, but not under other conditions. How wonderful!

Does that mean that scientists are people who can say: From the perspective known to this particular scientist the apple always falls down unless hanging up in the tree. But someone else has observed data that cannot be explained by the first scientist's theory, so another truth might also be valid. Both truths may be valid, depending on who's looking. Let's research further and see what in the perspective of the scientist has to change so that he/she can get this other result ...

"We don't let go of the old truths, we modify them in the face of evidence."

What if the evidence isn't found looking "out there", but "in here"? What if the results of research are shaped by the questions asked by the particular scientist, which reflect his/her perspective of what is even possible to find? Can it be so that the apple always falls down from the tree for those people who are convinced that it does and have never bothered to question it? If everyone agreed that the earth is flat, didn't the perspective of a scientist have to change for that truth to be gradually modified for everyone? And until everyone cahnged perspective, wasn't the earth BOTH flat AND round?

So many questions :)

I'm sorry, Seeker, I was writing on my questions when you posted #41. If you wish to stop here, it's perfectly all right with me. As this was a blog about questions, understanding and inclusion among other things, I don't find this discussion misplaced. But do as you wish :)

Dear seeker

I would like to say one more thing on this subject and then will cease conversation.
It is this, my observation of comments made here,
no disrespect meant to anyone, is that the way reason is represented, it seems to confuse the difference between subjective and objective and makes intellectualizing and reason an end in itself.( i.e. infatuation with reason) In saying that reason is the only way to go, the critical point of a complex issue is sometimes missed. It leaves little room for other possibilities that could turn into probabilities, and then into

incontrovertable truths.

The other side of the argument does the same thing, so sometimes a person in the middle just has to laugh it all off.

Love
Bonnie

A few of a certain stature supposedly managed to get some metal from the towers and sent it to two universities because they wanted to know the truth. The chemical signature of thermate was found. Which explains the pools of burning steel that burned for weeks.

As you all know they say the flames melted the steel beams. How many of you have ever seen a wood burning stove melt?

All that being said, what would they do to try and divert our attention from the issue so the truth does not come out? To what extreme would they go?

Create a terrorist attack on US soil?

Go to war with Iraq?

Watch the signs around you even now.

Now if you knew the day this was going to occur how much money could you make playing the market. You know Gas prices will go up. The market will fall.

So here is the plan I will announce several days before it happens here on IntentBlog then since you are all like minded connected, you can share this info with your wealthy friends and take all your money, bet that the gas is going up and the market is going down, and transfer billions into the hands of those having higher consciousness.

You could figure the timing out yourself, they do it right before a major presentaion of 9/11 truths.

This will major transfer of power across the planet.

Of course being aware you could circumvent and stop us from going into Iran.

Sounds like a good story anyway... :)

In my above it should have been (infatuation with reason itself, than truth itself)

Yet what would happen if we sall focused on Love starting right now?

I AM.

Dear seeker

You omitted the moment when the apple is falling. It was subsumed in the description of the on-the-branch and on-the-ground states, but the two states are connected by the moment of falling. Though that critically important moment was taken for granted, it's far more interesting and complex than the on-the-branch and on-the-ground states are.

Many who love science, including scientists, gloss important realities because they're hard to observe, like the moment of falling. But time and again, it's been hard-to-observe realities that have made new science.

Essentially, many scientists are not fully aware how limited they are, by their senses and their minds' and bodies' adaptations to the dimensions we're most familiar with. They don't fully grasp that many scientific "facts" are only convenient metaphors that elide more complex realities. They don't see or understand their own bias. This is why many non-scientists look at scientists with a somewhat jaded eye. When someone has a blind spot and is unaware of it, an observer will intuit the fact, and resist fully trusting the unaware person.

When "scientific method" is invoked, as you have invoked it in #41, it can cause a non-scientist to shudder involuntarily, because it is the name of bandage that hides a slew of blind spots.

love, Heath

Bonnie, it is great to here other perspectives too, but sometimes stupidity has no cure. And yes, I enjoy your liveliness. But certainly there is an ignorance of understanding of true science which can be cured. Thanks for your thoughts.

Aurora, I will make one more comment and we can end our exchange so that people are not encouraged to spam with one liners and nonsensical gobbledygook misplacing the real debate. And yes your questions are related to the topic. you ask interesting questions on science and faith. You are a true seeker of knowledge. Let me tell you that Scientific method is there to address most of the points about validity of a theory that I, Skeptisch and you are discussing.

You can say a plain land of one acre is almost flat, but planet earth is round, there is scientific evidence for that. Th old "earth is flat" common sense belief is not a valid theory upon further observations, data and experiments. It is now accepted to be true. That is why I say, Newtons Laws of motion describe the macro world we live in. They are valid or almost true for motions we observe in our senses in the world we perceive in day to day life. But to describe a far greater reality to greater accuracy we have Quantum Mechanics and Theory of relativity. Now the only hurdle it seems for a complete unified physical theory is to marry Eintein's Gravity with Quantum Mechanics.

Absolute Truth is a philosophical concept the only truth that can be understood is the truth that the nature reveals. That was the Einstein's God. Science may never reveal all secrets but it is the best tool to access truth. The rest of philosophy debates and beliefs of the Absolute or Relativism of truth, can go on but as Skeptisch says, the scientists are not pretenders. Or rather true scientists are not pretenders. Science is objective. It is clear in accessing whether a certain scientific theory is true or not. Either it is true or not based on the scientific method. It is constantly self-correcting. There is no argument over truth as proven by data and as ascertained by scientific method or science. Scientists go wrong from time to time but scientific method is there to check their mistakes, their subjectivity, their biases, and pass that which is validated as true into the realm of science. With each generation of scientists, science is pushed forwards never backwards. Some theories could be proved wrong(again by science and experiment) but the next theory is a better theory. And that's the beauty of science and it doesn't pretend, it's self-corrrecting.

As I said, lets stop it here as we cannot pick on one statement made by Skeptisch and blow it out of proportions. The intent of the post is more important and I think Skep made a great observation on the faith based secular value system taught to children.

It will great if Skeptisch be allowed to post his views and answer your questions pesonally. Aurora, I will end this little exchange on this interesting topic here. It is a pleasure talking to you.

I wish Don had 5 brains and ten hands to type and be everywhere at the same time like Omnipresent God. LOL!

I don't know why people still are debating the apple example. I made my intentions clear. That was only to say that Law of Gravity is true.
But since this subject is brought up, modern scienc is not ignorant of the comllecity of the relaity we live in. Quantum Mechanics, Relativity and Cosmology have some great insights into the nature of time and what it means to be in the moment "Now" . Time certainly is not how we humans perceive it. "time doesn't flow" as our sense tell us. science has some interesting insights into nature of time. every Now seems to have an independent existence. Past present future are illusory in that all moments of time seem to have an independent existence. Rather than time "spacetime" is a more fundamental reality. When a apple falls, it not only falls in time but also in space. we make observations and the Law of gravity explains why it falls down and doesn't go up or remain in mid air forever. And these observations are in time and space.

At the exact moment of an apple falling down, there seems to be no reason why it should fall down on ground or remain intact on the branch.
This also corresponds to why a an egg should break rather than unbreak. Why a cup of coffee cools down rather than heat up. These are closely related totime reversal phenomenons. which always go only in one direction never reverse. Modern Physics has an answer in entropy.

I for one who has studied the nature of time, space and reality from a scientific, string theory, QM and Relativity perspectives can say that scientists in these fields realize completely the far greater complex reality that lie just beneath our day to day common sense realties. This is the challemge of modern science.

As humans, scientists are biased and subjective too but science as tool is the best tool we have to access the nature of reality.

I will end these exchanges here, and request others also to try and keep focus on Mallika Chopra's post. Please make your comments if you will but I will not respond here. If you want to know seek genuine understanding on related issues please raise those questions in the Open thread.

Thankyou.

Singular Phenomenon. Plural Phenomena. Like criterion and criteria. not Phenomenons. What happened to self correcting?? LOL!

Seeker, I wrote my comment over a period of time, in small breaks from working; I started it before you wrote your request to stop; I didn't check for comments subsequent to the one I was answering.

Before I leave it here, Einstein's Relativity( Absolute Space-time) can be better understood better considering the example of apple.

Common sens tells us that aplle falls down.

It is not you who see the apple fall down but it is the apple which finds you and the ground approach it.

Apple falling down, is an accelerating motion and what is it accelerating with reference to? It is not Earth, It is you, It is the Absolute entity according to relativity theory: Spacetime.

That is alos the reason why Eintein dislike his theory be called the relativity theory( as he came up with the ida that space and time are relative) since there is an absolute entity Spacetime upon his later investigations.

Seeker: Can you also tell us if that Apple really fell on Newton's head? Or is it just a myth? Does Science have any method to know if it fell on Newton's head?? LOL!

Apologies for typos and unedited posts.

"Seeker: Can you also tell us if that Apple really fell on Newton's head? Or is it just a myth? Does Science have any method to know if it fell on Newton's head?? LOL!"

We can't be sure, It doesn't matter I guess, What matters is that he came with the Universal Law of Gravity.

No wI am really off this topic.

Even if you were careful with typing and edited, you wouldn't have made it. LOL! Why? Science tells us that if we are Ignorant not stupid of a spelling, we will do it until, someone else comes and corrects it. This is not self correcting! LOL!!!

What do you reckon Heather and Bonnie? :-)

Even if you were careful with typing and edited it, you wouldn't have made it. LOL! Why? Science tells us that if we are Ignorant not stupid of a spelling, we will do it until, someone else comes and corrects it. This is not self correcting! LOL!!!

What do you reckon Heather and Bonnie? :-)

We don't see some misspellings until we take a break from them for a while, or see them in a different setting, like on paper. Do you ever type with closed eyes? Fingers spell better with closed eyes. Simplicity.

Oh to avoid any confusion Heather, it was meant for seekerji and I was asking you and Bonnie what you thought of it? Are you able to detect the Strange, but not Soooo strange loops Heather? LOL!

"Even if you were careful with typing and edited, you wouldn't have made it. LOL! Why? Science tells us that if we are Ignorant not stupid of a spelling, we will do it until, someone else comes and corrects it. This is not self correcting! LOL!!!"

"We don't see some misspellings until we take a break from them for a while, or see them in a different setting, like on paper. Do you ever type with closed eyes? Fingers spell better with closed eyes. Simplicity."

My browser, uses a very rudimentary word editor that is build in to help type my comments in.

When there is a typo it shows a red line, then I would right click and quickly select the right word and when i am in a hurry as today, I select wrong words and type poorly.

Your loop is very strange in defence seekerji. LOL! You were supposed to leave this thread, still stuck? Science tells us as long as our ego is not clear and satiated, we remain stuck.:-)

My comment was intended as a small counterpoint to previous comments. You didn't hear its tiny music? If you're a touch typist and you have the nerve to try typing with closed eyes, your closed-eyes typing make have cleaner spelling than open-eyes typing. I have some ideas as to why, but they're speculative.

You're a touch woman Heather, an artist in all layers. I understand your speculations, so do others here. Be careful, the Don is on rounds. Any speculation at this time, he will pounce like a hungry lion. you didn't answer my q of loop, are you able to detect the loops? :-)

You were supposed to leave this thread, still stuck?

Harmless banter is fine. Not an endless dialogue of ignorant misplacement of someone's view on the topic at hand.

"If you're a touch typist and you have the nerve to try typing with closed eyes, your closed-eyes typing make have cleaner spelling than open-eyes typing. I have some ideas as to why, but they're speculative."

Interesting.

I personally dislike the QWERTY Keyboard for its user-interface, designed for early typing machines which were designed to deliberately speed down the typing speeds so that the machines would not break up....this was adapted for the computer key boards too. I will be happy to see someday a linear key board which is straightforward and faster to type for a beginning user who is not trained to develop his typing skills.

But you said you were going Seekerji? you need a huge Mirror!

Ricky, my counterpoint was intended to fit in the the whorl of two small loops. Being a musician, you know that music has shape and dynamics. I have something to share on OT.

Rickyji

That will help.

LOL. Do I look like a person who will die for his word? like some religious fundamentalist or rayalseema factionist? I am not Sathyaharishchandra either. I am fallible and a human, a narcissist who likes to look at myself in the mirror.

Like Navin you mean? LOL!

This is now a weaving.

Dear Seeker,

thank you for the time and patience in explaining your view. I think I now understand you a little better, and I can see why your point of view makes complete sense to you. There are still a lot of questions to be asked, but luckily, questions are best asked of oneself. All the best to you, it was indeed a pleasure to talk.

Richard Dawkin's documentary on God delusion talks about how kids are brain washed too.. its pretty interesting

Hi Mallika - You teach your children: better to be kind than right. Your father and mother taught you this. Do you think they were right? I do.

LOL. I can imagine what kind of questions your book must have contained. :) And what sort of answers you must have given. ;)

Questioning the validity of religion or its authorities is a sin or so it is perceived by those questionable authorities!

Open-minded questions nor answers are welcome at the place of religion. So long live open-mindedness!

Hope to read your book one day, soon as I can afford it. ;)

Hi Malik,

I guess the somalia local culture upbringing of Ayan Hirshi Ali was cruel and inhuman. That is not Islamic Upbringing. I cannot see any single thing what she had mentioned in Islamic teachings, except the observance of modesty in dresses.

Modesty in dresses are observed for women in different ways in different nation. Before applying modesty to women, our Prophet's teachings insist on Modesty of Man.

Our Prophet's teachings are to be kind and respect towards women. It is very sad to hear what Hirshi Ali went through. I guess she herself haven't experienced the real taste of Islam. I am very sorry for her.

Salams(Peace)
Ahamed