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The Dharma Drug: Buddhism as a Psychoactive Agent

Renee Reeser Zelnick - May 15, 2007

The Buddhist and psychedelic paths share some certain commonalities in the expansion of consciousness in both theory and practice. Both philosophies can serve to make one a more compassionate, sentient being. Practice in Buddhism's mindfulness, as do well-planned and intentioned sessions with psychedelics give people the power to overcome habitual behaviors and attachments.

Both provide means, method and historical research into worldviews and the nature of reality, relating to the self and universe. Do the theories and practices of both paths simply run parallel? Do they converge? Do they enhance one another? Is it possible for one to stand in for the other? Can Buddhism be the Modern World's soma?

A dynamic relationship between psychedelics and Eastern spirituality has existed since the nineteenth century, documented in esoteric and occult writings by likes of infamous folks like Crowley and Gurdieff. In the last century Buddhists and Hindu texts inspired aristocratic British exiles like the writers Gerald Heard, Humphry Osmond, Aldous Huxley and Alan Watts to pry open the dark doors of perception and seek experiential illumination through psychedelic hallucinogens. This inspired American academicians like Timothy Leary and Richard Alpert (Ram Dass) to investigate Eastern texts and practices. No one really remembers the seventies (must have been the cannabis, huh?), but the eighties gave rise to the popular use of MDMA (Ecstasy) originally ( and legally-shortlived as it was) psychotherapy practice and more recently in the underground rave culture and club scene.

Not truly a psychedelic hallucinogen, controversial chemical MDMA is perhaps best been described as an empathogen. The heart-centered serenity feeling from what is sometimes referred to as the "Buddha-drug" loosens the bondage of individual ego and clears the pathway to an unusually high level of honesty, intimacy and communication. If psychedelics do correspond with esoteric Buddhism, some argue MDMA could be seen as the recommended bodhisattva's pharmaceutical. In my own research, I've encountered many folks that have included the substance on their personal practice of loving-kindness.

Of course, the Buddhist practitioner may just say (k)no(w), and spend meditation time in dark retreat to produce such a fantastic visual voyage. While entertaining entheogenic eye candy is exciting, and dancing dakinis in the sky with diamonds really do get one's attention, the real goal of
the Mahayana and Vajrayana sects is to become a bodhisattva. Vajrayana techniques are reputed to enable the enlightenment of Buddhahood in an accelerated pace, perhaps as short as a single lifetime.
Crash courses are not without their crashes, however. The fact that the fast track to enlightenment can produce spiritual casualties in crisis may be the fifth noble truth.

How do modern Buddhists feel about the use of such substances? I remembered an old Tricycle magazine interview written by Robert Forte I'd read some time ago, which recently resurfaced in Alan Hunt Badiner's book, Zig Zag Zen, with psychedelic shaman/researcher/Buddhist Jack Kornfield:

"It is important to say that there is no Buddhist point of view on psychedelics. They are rarely found in the Buddhist tradition, if at all, and generally would be lumped in the precepts under 'intoxicants.'"

Kornfield feels officially that there is no common traditional point of view about the use of psychedelics in Buddhism itself, as there is very little written about them. Forte reminds Kornfield of story of someone asking the Dalai Lama if one could use drugs to attain enlightenment. His Holiness joked, " I sure hope so". The basic training precepts in Buddhism tell the practitioner not to kill, not to steal, not to lie or engage in sexual misconduct, and lastly, to refrain from using intoxicants to the loss of mindfulness or loss of awareness. Using attorney or teenager logic, one could interpret that as not saying not to use them.

Yes, without question psychedelic usage, like crossing the street, can be dangerous.
Is Dr. Charles Tart right? ; Is not using them can also dangerous?
Psychedelics are dangerous, not only because they alter the senses, but because they challenge the notion of authoritative control. They promote a worldview from a much different vantage point than so-called "normal" western society, but then again, so does Buddhism. The left-hand path can be full of disappointment, disassociation, and delusion. When not kept in check, kleshas can ruin anyone's long strange trip. Wacky things happen to the most substance-free meditative mind when isolated. Not to mention, many psychoactives are illegal. And many are not. To be fair, however, Buddhism has had its' share of legal and political strife.

It seems we humans are wired for such states in our neurophysiologic makeup. In fact, the very first I ever heard of researcher Terence McKenna was from a musical rave romp by British electronica band The Shamen, in a song composed around Mckenna's speech about us all carrying a Schedule One substance in our brains: DMT.

Dimethyltryptamine (DMT), a major constituent of Amazonian ayahuasca, is a powerful entheogenic substance that exists naturally in the mammalian brain. If it exists within us naturally, is really an intoxicant to be avoided? Dr. Rick Strassman doesn't think so. He believes that endogenous DMT in humans play a significant role in the production of spontaneous or induced altered states of consciousness. DMT is a close analogue of the neurotransmitter 5-hydroxytryptamine, also known as serotonin. Strassman hypothesizes that DMT stimulates the pineal gland to create such spontaneous psychedelic states as near-death experiences.

But what is really going on in these transcendental experiences, regardless of meditative or chemical cause? From the materialist's viewpoint, mystical experiences are the simply a result of pathological and delusional brain dysfunction. Recent neuro-psychological evidence supports the hypothesis that the human brain's temporal lobe plays a key role in producing mystical states of consciousness. Strassman also recognized that certain brain centers and neural transmitters are mobilized in altered states of consciousness and spiritual awareness, regardless is they are induced by the ingestion of substancesor by a control of the will. A report in an April 2001 New Scientist described scientific experiments which demonstrated Tibetan Buddhist's meditation experience as the dissolution of distinction between self and other, as there was associated shutdown in the region of the brain responsible for the sensation, the parietal lobe.

The Tibetan culture's early indigenous shamanic practice Bon Po, embraced a shamanism focused on divination, magic, spiritual guidance regarding death, and the attainment of altered states of consciousness through which the shaman could affect change in the Material realm. In a similar manner, meditation techniques within modern Buddhism too can provide a colorful altered state experience, psychedelic in nature, through which the practitioner can affect change in his or her Spiritual realm, resulting too in material changes. By-passing the normal boundaries of the body, both the Buddhist and Psychedelic seeker have transcendent, transformational experiences in altered states of consciousness.

While spending time with McKenna in Mexico, Terence stated the Bon used plant based substances like datura and hashish to compliment their practice. Researcher Dr. Christian Raetsch and wife Claudia Mueller have spent decades studying the shamanic practices and use of Amanita Muscaria in the Himalayan shamanic traditions. Indian Tantrism too has added to this entheogenic recipe, concocting a shamanistic brew by adding its' own secret ingredients of initiations and involved texts that have evolved into the complex rituals, tankhas and mandalas we associate with modern Buddhist monks.

The Tantric influence was a cornerstone in the development of Tibet's "third vehicle" of Buddhism, Vajrayana. The Sanskrit Vajra (similar to the Tibetan Djore') refers to the thunderbolt of Indra, made from an indestructible substance, which could pierce any obstacle. "vajra" also refers to this substance, and is also translated as "adamantine" or "diamond". This diamond vehicle provides a fast path to enlightenment, which sounds much like the soul piercing power of psychoactive psychedelic agents, such as LSD, mescaline, and psilocybin. In his writing and lectures, visionary artist Alex Grey often talks about Vajravsion - the visual resonance that psychedelic substances impart upon our mind's eye. He says that it was only after the ingestion of LSD that the pattern flames and multi-limbed deities of tankha paintings made sense to him.

Two things we shall all truly encounter said to be death and taxes. While I am not sure what firm the of Rinpoche and Rinpoche will do about my 1099s, a deeply significant contribution Buddhism offers this modern world is creating a context for Death. The psychedelic path also can open this doorway. Buddhism, especially the Tibetans, have explored and written a cornucopia of literature dealing with consciousness and dying. For centuries Tibet has engaged in the systematic study and analysis of the human death process as a cautious and practical preparation for this inevitable event. Many western psychedelic psychonauts, from Leary to random folks I meet on the dusty playa at Burning Man have turned to the wisdom of Tibetan Book of the Dead and other writings for understanding of mysteries death and ego-death that science and medicine have failed to answer, let alone, address.

To become one with this Self, one must become free of all attachments and bondage.
Mind training and mind expansion is the road to quiescence. While walking the psychedelic path is a powerful tool for accelerating this process, it is not for everyone.

Western intellectuals often dismiss the Eastern ontology as "occult" and "mystical",
Labelling psychedelics (rightly so) as "dangerous" and "illegal". Whether Eastern or Western based in thought, our task, regardless of chemical of spiritual causation, is to create a worldview large enough to incorporate the ancient and recent findings of the energy sciences into a revised reality.

Buddhism offers the modern world much available evidence and data, dating back for thousands of years, that readily adapt to the most recent discoveries of modern science including nuclear physics, biochemistry, genetics, and astronomy. While some may argue modern psychonauts only draw academic reference of psychedelic usage from only the past century or so, no one can deny the pre-historic shamanic tradition that the modern practice is built upon. From the viewpoint of practitioners that have walked both paths, yes these roads to transformation are often parallel, but also often intersect, cross over and merge. However many western researchers agree that certain psychedelics can provide a car pool lane to get one there faster. One is not a complete substitute for the other, but perhaps each can compliment the other, in an integrated practice. And if you want to score a really natural high, go east, in thought and practice. Meditate.

As the science of investigating consciousness changes, by scientifically studying methods such as meditation, yoga, monastic retreat, and sensory deprivation, perhaps it will become self-evident that Buddhism is the pure and naturally psychoactive Dharma drug.

okay bloggers- i'm ready for your backlash....
and for the record i am NOT recommending anyone indulge in any practice of an illegal nature-
even tho nature used to be legal !

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Posted by Renee Reeser Zelnick at May 15, 2007 04:49 PM

Comments

Dear Renee

I need two sets of hands to count the people I've lost via drugs, to either death or delusion.

For me, reading your piece is like someone who's lost 20 friends to hit-and-run drivers reading a piece about the fun of driving at speeds of over 90 mph on public streets. Most of the time, a speeding driver won't hit anyone. But when the driver does hit someone, there's no turning back.

For the record, I'm not a coward about trying new things. But I can't support an approach that, in front of my eyes, ruined the lives of dozens of people. I'm not alone in such experiences. There are many, many others with similar stories to tell.

love, Heath

1. Posted by hgquinn on May 15, 2007 05:55 PM

Dear Renee,

The problem is magic mushrooms cannot be patented and you can grow them in your basement and pick them in cow pastures off cow piles which obviously is why the cow is considered sacred.

So if this awareness got out it could devastate certain pharmaceutical companies that sell the anti-depressants and other psychoactive drugs. Not only that they would lead to the end of the fear and conflict industries.

Scientists have now established their efficiency and beneficial therapeutic effect.

Scientists are to investigate a hallucinogenic chemical in "magic mushrooms" as a possible new treatment for depression, anxiety and drug dependence.

The move follows an unusual study which showed that the compound, psilocybin, can prompt long lasting positive changes in mood and behavior.

Researchers also found that people who took the chemical experienced genuine mystical experiences, as defined by psychologists.

A third of the 36 study participants described their psilocybin experience as the "most spiritually significant" of their lives.

Some likened it to the importance of the birth of their first child or the death of a parent.

Magic mushrooms, or "shrooms", come in several varieties, all of which contain psilocybin. Until last year a loophole in the law meant they were not illegal in their natural state in the UK.

Under the Drugs Act 2005 they are now classified as a Class A drug, like heroin or cocaine.

Possession may be punishable by several years in jail, while supplying the mushrooms could result in a life sentence.

Professor Roland Griffiths, from Johns Hopkins Medical Institutions in Baltimore, Maryland, USA, led the study, the first rigorous investigation of the effects of "tripping" on a drug for decades.

The volunteers were all healthy, well-educated, mostly middle-aged and with no family history of psychotic illness.

Each attended two separate eight hour drug sessions at two month intervals. On one occasion they received psilocybin, on the other the drug Ritalin which was used as a placebo.

Medical professionals were on hand to act as "monitors" and observe what happened. Neither the participants nor the monitors knew when the test drug was being taken.

The trials took place in a room fitted out as a comfortable lounge, with soft music and indirect lighting.

Heart rate and blood pressure were measured, and questionnaires used to assess volunteers' experiences.

During the study, more than 60 per cent of those taking part described the effects of psilocybin in ways that met the recognized criteria of a "full mystical experience".

Two months later, 79 per cent reported moderately or greatly increased well being or levels of life-satisfaction.

Most said their mood, attitudes and behavior had changed for the better. This was confirmed by interviews with family members, friends and work colleagues.

The findings were published today in the journal Psychopharmacology.

Prof Griffiths said: "Under very defined conditions, with careful preparation, you can safely and fairly reliably occasion what's called a primary mystical experience that may lead to positive changes in a person. It's an early step in what we hope will be a large body of scientific work that will ultimately help people."

The scientists said scrupulous care was taken to minimize adverse side effects and warned of the dangers of taking psilocybin unsupervised.

His team now intends to look into the therapeutic potential of the magic mushroom chemical.

Trials are planned involving patients suffering from cancer-related depression or anxiety. Other studies will test a role for psilocybin in the treatment of drug dependence.

Prof Griffiths said human research into the potential positive effects of hallucinogen drugs had been "frozen in time" for 40 years due to the excesses of the 1960s.

A number of promising leads were left "dangling" as a result.

"Our study is among the first to re-open this field," said Prof Griffiths.

Another expert commentating on the work in the same journal said he did not think the research would spark off a wave of experimentation with magic mushrooms.

Dr Herbert Kleber, Professor of Psychiatry at Columbia University in New York wrote: "The positive findings of the study cannot help but raise concern in some that it will lead to increased experimenting with these substances by youth in the kind of uncontrolled and unmonitored fashion that produced casualties over the past three decades.

"Any study reporting a positive or useful effect of a drug of abuse raises these same concerns. In this internet age, however, where youth are deluged with glowing personal reports in chat rooms and web sites as well as detailed information about the various agents and how to use them, it is less likely that a scientific study would move the needle much."

Magic mushrooms produce "trips" lasting between four and eight hours.

Users see hallucinogenic visions, lose track of time, and may experience laughing fits. Colours and lights are intensified. Afterwards they experience increased intelligence and awareness.

Among the known adverse effects are vomiting, anxiety and paranoia. "Shrooms" are especially risky for anyone with mental problems.

The fungi have a long history in human culture, and have been taken for their drug effects for several thousand years.

Magic mushrooms are linked to ancient religious ceremonies, such as those practiced by the Aztecs, who called them "Teonanacati", or "God's flesh".

In European folklore, tales of flying witches and fairy rings, and depictions of elves sitting on toadstools, have all been ascribed to magic mushroom "trips".

The first documented magic mushroom experience in Britain occurred in London's Green Park in 1799. A man who had been picking mushrooms for breakfast accidentally sent his whole family on a trip.

The doctor who treated them described in the Medical and Physical Journal how the youngest child was "attacked with fits of immoderate laughter".

It has been suggested that magic mushrooms influenced Lewis Carroll, author of Alice in Wonderland. A hookah-smoking caterpillar urges Alice to eat pieces of mushroom which has the effect of making her grow and shrink.

2. Posted by Richard Thomas on May 15, 2007 06:45 PM

I've enjoyed reading your posts Renee all along! You're damn good. Keep it up!

Heather: What about the delusion which is not caused by drugs? LOL!! Do you use to smoke lot of charas and ganja before? LOL!

3. Posted by Ricky Ponting on May 15, 2007 06:52 PM

I can attest that Jack Daniels does NOT work.

4. Posted by bobby on May 15, 2007 07:00 PM

The truth is only mushrooms should be kept in the dark.

Obviously if everyone saw through the worlds fictions everything that depended on them (war, conflict, disease) would collapse.

This is why there are such harsh penalties to help preserve the Illusions that a few benefit from to the detriment of the many.

5. Posted by Richard Thomas on May 15, 2007 07:15 PM

I wouldn't recommend doing any drugs created in a laboratory legal or illegal to anyone.

Happily there is a safe compromise between 20 years of meditation and some drug based short cut. That would be binaural beat audio technology that can alter and synchronize your brain waves creating altered states. You can be in deep theta in no time.

It works through on the frequency following effect through based on resonant entrainment of oscillating systems via the brainstem’s superior olivary nucleus, the first site of contralateral integration in the auditory system (Oster, 1973).

If you CLICK MY NAME BELOW you can find out more and how to get this not yet illegal mind altering technology. It is very subtle and the longer you use it the less you need it.

It actually helps those addicted to other things.

6. Posted by Richard Thomas on May 15, 2007 07:28 PM

I think trying to tie Buddhism and drugs together is nonsense.

It is like the overweight 70-year-old with so many wrinkles she needs ironing opting for plastic surgery instead of exercise to get rid of her tummy. She will energetically be like a walking bag of wrinkled death without muscular support, her joints will ache and loss of muscle tone will progress but she got the quick road to tummy tuck.

Westerners who take up buddhism then call themselves buddhists and leave the drug door open for interpretation come about because they find buddhism not as judgmental and they like that.

However, a religion's less serious practitioners are not that religion.

One need only watch the Shaolin Wheel of Life 2002 to deal this comparison of drug takers to buddhism a tough blow. The score is: Years of mental and physcial disclipline 10. Drug taking 0.

They support their entire weight on the tips of the index fingers, snap iron bars over the head, and appear supernatural in physical ability.

Europe wanted to trade with China. China was not interested. In 1793 the Son of Heaven wrote to the king of England:

"The virtue and prestige of the Celestial Dynasty having spread far and wide, the kings of myriad nations come by land and sea with all sorts of precious things. Consequently, there is nothing we lack, as your pricipal envoy and others have themsevles observed. We have never set much store on strnage or ingenious objects, nor do we need any more of your contry's manufacturers."

Christian missionaries were tolerated. China employed restrictions and the traders grew unhappy.

They found opium to be the one major marketable product. The imperial government tried to stop the traffic by decree repeatedly. In 1729 importation was 200 chests of pure opium per year. By 1830 it was 19,000 and by 1838 to 30,000. Corruption among Chinese officials helped the growth of the drug trade.

(From The Logic of International Relations by Walter S. Jones, page 147).

So, Western introduction of Western need upon Buddhists is nothing new.

Confusing it with Buddhism is irresponsible.

Highly educated experimental drug advocates don't want to hear that meditation and physical discipline can give you all the high and exploration you ever need. They instead want a nod for taking a drug. That's the last thing an addicted person or an addictive personality needs.

Besides, Alpert, one of those educated drug experimenters was impressed when he found a holy man who could do an extremely high dose of LSD and not be affected by it. That is a mind in control, not a limp mind being chauffeured by his plastic surgeon to a quick LSD nip and tuck.

7. Posted by Tapestry on May 15, 2007 07:51 PM

okay-
so far we've learned that' one "NO" for Jack Daniels and the cult of Bourbonism-

And that Richard is a "Fun Guy"!

Actually , Richard Thomas ( if that is INDEED your REAL name - hee-hee... )
points out scientists and studies on psilocybin.
Are you also aware of the work of Dr. Charles Grob @ UCLA/Harbor Medical with psilcybin as a treatment for anxiety in end stage cancer patients?
See:
http://www.maps.org/research/
Grob has prepared a study investigating whether anxiety in the dying can be significantly reduced by the appropriate administration of psilocybin. Any attendant reduction in pain will also be measured. Participantse have undergone experimental sessions and psilocybin was well-tolerated in these individuals.
THey are looking for end stage cancer patients who qualify:

http://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct/show/NCT00302744?order=1

then there is Dr. Vollenweider and colleagues in Zurich studying the neural correlates of consciousness and the effects of psilocybin on visual perception, attention, working memory, and time perception. Other studies will use EEG or positron emission tomography (PET) imaging. Several published reports describe research findings, and other reports are forthcoming.

Coincidentally, Griffiths hails from Johns Hopkins, the very same home hospital of Dr George Ricaurte-
who several years ago published ( and publicised heavily in the media and on OPRAH) false research in a controversial paper titled Severe Dopaminergic Neurotoxicity in Primates After a Common Recreational Dose Regimen of MDMA. He reported that MDMA, when injected into non-human primates (monkeys) in doses similar to those used by some recreational ecstasy users, caused "severe" damage to the dopamine (DA) system of the brain. But in a major blow to their credibility, the Johns Hopkins researchers have now issued a full retraction of the article stating that all but one of the monkeys were accidentally injected with methamphetamine, not MDMA.

The original article stirred controversy for several reasons. The alarming results, which contradicted previous research and data about actual human use, suggested that even a single evening of MDMA use could lead to permanent and devastating problems. Despite the unexpected results, the article was worded to have a political effect and was used to help push through legislation aimed at punishing owners of venues where drugs such as ecstasy are used. The research was strongly supported by Alan Leshner, the former head of the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA). Leshner was head of NIDA when the Johns Hopkins research proposal was approved, and was then appointed chief executive officer of the organization that publishes Science prior to the research being accepted for publication.

As critics have questioned the results over the past year, the authors have vigorously defended their unprecedented findings. But in early September 2003, Ricaurte and his research team submitted a full retraction of the article, stating that the monkeys had not been injected with MDMA at all. Rather, they had been injected with methamphetamine, a well-known dopamine system toxin taken at doses substantially lower than those of MDMA. The results, after injecting the monkeys with what turned out to be very high doses of methamphetamine, were dramatic but not unexpected given the actual substance used: two of the primates died from the injection, others were close to death, and there was serious damage to their dopamine systems.
Sad!
thanks to Erowid.org for the above...

ANd Heath - I am very sorry for your losses--
this is why i'm pushing dimebags of meditation,
lines of mindfulness,
and bongloads of loving kindness!

peace.....
Renee

8. Posted by ReneeRZ on May 15, 2007 08:43 PM

"Either it is true that a medicine works or it isn't.
It cannot be false in the ordinary sense but true in some 'alternative' sense."

Prof. Richard Dawkins, Oxford, April 2001
from the foreword to 'SNAKE OIL' by John Diamond

9. Posted by Scott on May 15, 2007 09:14 PM

Renee

Thanks for all this research and you too Richard Thomas. I will have to check all of them out furthur.

My observations are that a person can reach the same "altered state" by either method. But the natural method, i.e. meditation, is better and gives the individual a more solid grounding for such altered states. Ingesting psilocybin or mescalin can make a person seriously hurt themselves, or frighten them near to death, if they don't understand what is happening or have someone to guide them in the experience. Datura can kill you, if you are not an expert in its use and should not be recommended for anyone.

I consider myself to be open-minded and am not opposed to research into these types of drugs and if they help, use them----they cannot be any worse than some of the so called legal drugs on the market now, which if improperly used can kill you too. I don't think cannabis, psilocybin or mescalin are addictive. Some of the "hard" drugs like cocain are. I suppose they could all be abused. I don't know if ecstasy is or not.

10. Posted by Bonnie on May 15, 2007 10:11 PM

Renee, I think you're relatively new here. Richie a fun guy? That itself was funny. LOL! He's about 62yr old robotic man who constantly Dishes out information. His sense of humor Sucks. You can test him out, if you think I'm lying. LOL!

He's one of those deluded who thinks just because he is nice and aware, the world will be like him soon. Yeah! soon! LOL! My foot! He has very little idea of the dark side of human psyche, and If I can exaggerate a little, has No Idea of what it is like in the third world countries. LOL!

Bonnie:Wonderful points from you as usual. Absolutely nothing can beat the natural high one can get from meditation or other beautiful things which life/mother nature offers us.

11. Posted by Ricky Ponting on May 15, 2007 10:44 PM

Dear Renee,
You seem to be excelling day by day in your understanding of spiritualism and many associated methods and paths.
No doubt Buddhism is a sober and sane version of spiritual high in comparison to many other crash courses.
It is important to remember J.K who emphasizes,rejection of any disciplined approach not as opposed to being anarchic,yet constantly thrive in one's efforts in realizing one self and understanding of constant and ever changing reality. While he also affirms that the near perfect approach of Buddhism to enlightenment,he says it is important to explore on one's own and openly investigate,where the possibility of a sudden personal discovery of it.Which not only make one understand the past better( traditions)and see the reality as it being (ever changing)present.Instead of confining and fallowing the so called specialists or methods or past tradetions (religion),which could only lead to short gains and crash courses rather than a complete realization and enlightenment,which in the end could be of being able to be free.
Regards and Metta,
Raja Indrakaran.

12. Posted by indrakaran on May 16, 2007 07:58 AM

Hmmm....

I made myself a laboratory for exactly the kind of research you are describing when I was younger (70s - early 80s).

Drugs are no magic bullet. In the final analysis, I had to give them up precisely because further progress on the spiritual path demanded that I have a clear mind and undistorted senses.

Sooner or later the drugs will become an impediment, not a help. To not realize this is to get sidetracked by one of those enticing deities described in the book of the dead.

The truth is that drug induced states are not enlightenment. Sorry, many don't want to hear that. Attachment to drug induced states is, after all is said and done, an attachment.

I have done them all, Dearie, and more times than I care to admit. I know that whereof I speak.

Drug trips have to be carefully arranged. Even the problem of making sure you have a good substance is a problem. There are many types of psychoactive mushrooms, and they will produce different highs, and even batches of the same type will differ according to the circumstances of their growth.

I have done carefully grown Amanitas and they produced the nearest thing to a clear, side effect free experience that I was able to focus on (I did them in nature). However, even the same batch produced a "bummer" trip for a friend, and I had to mentally overcome my high to assist him on one memorable occasion.

If you want a test of your meditative experience, do mushrooms then psychically defeat the effects. That's what I had to do that day. That in itself taught me that the real meditator has to gain control over his own mental states, not just "surrender" when the substance takes over.

Mushrooms are poison. They can kill you. They are not like THC, which you can take megadoses of and survive. If mushrooms are properly grown, and sufficiently powerful, it is quite easy to grab a big mushroom, gobble it down, and an hour later realize "OH S---T!!! TOO MUCH!!!"

That's not exactly an enlightening experience, except you get to learn how to deal with a medical emergency while completely out of your mind (and body too).

MDMA, MDA, and other psychoactive amphetamines are terribly hard on your body .From the standpoint of yoga, which teaches freeing the body of toxins as a preparation for meditation, it's working against yourself.

Not to mention they are habit forming.

LSD, DMT, STP and other chemicals of that ilk can produce way cool trips if the drugs are of suitable quality, the dose is properly measured for the individual, and circumstances are carefully controlled.

Also the mindset of the person has to be proper, and it still takes mental focus to not allow "bummer thoughts" to destroy your experience.

You should have space and time set aside, distraction free, for extended hours of deep meditation. And plan for the recovery time. You need at least a full 24 hour cycle, and a weekend completely undisturbed is better.

With drugs you can have a great time dancing to music, going to parties, and even making love. All will be heightened experiences. You may feel like some mystical insight is coming the first times, but after a while, you can get bored with tripping too. Trust me, I've been there. The last time I took mushrooms, years ago, after preparing the time for a solo hike in the mountains on a well known-to-me trail, I got out there and the substance hit me in all it's glory, and---I got bored. I had just done it too many times. No new ground to cover here. Again, I psychically overcame the effects so I could get in my car and drive home.

I'm finished with it now. I can be surrounded by people getting high and not be tempted. I'm a musician, for crying out loud and it happens all the time. All my reggae musician friends know I don't smoke it anymore. No problem there.

So drugs can open a door to awareness that may not have been previously opened, but only if the mental expectations of the user are right, and they take care to make sure they create a good environment, if they have friends along they are people who also have the same purpose in mind to use the drug for exploratory purposes, and they make sure they have a quality, impurity-free subtance to use. Having plenty of water or juice available to drink during the experience is prefferred by some, although I myself wanted to be free from even the distraction of drinking water at such times.

If you are planning on smoking herb along with your psychedelics, then definitely have water on hand, other wise you'll get cotton mouth that feels like its been multplied by 100 times due to the psychedelics.

And recognize that the herb is actually operating against the effects of the hallucinogens, in terms of trying to reach higher meditative states. The states you can reach with herb top out fairly quickly. The herbs will add distortion to your mental focus. You may desire that, but just realize it is not going to allow you to maximize the psychedelics in terms of seeking mystical states.

A tip for beer drinkers: don't drink beer while peaking on the psychedelics, as it will tend to scale back the effects. However, beer is great to take the edge of coming down from LSD or Ecstasy. After the peak is over and you're coming down, have a case of beer available and some movies and veg out until normal consciousness returns.

Very important is to plan to have everything you need BEFORE you trip. It will be too late to go to the store or start cooking something AFTER the drugs set in.

And realize, in the final analysis, drugs are a side trip on the path. I know Tim Leary and Terrence McKenna think drugs are the final destination, and that drugs are the key to transforming planetary consciousness.

But I don't think so. And after you are familiar with the drug experience, it can become a limiting factor.

As for non-psychedelics such as heroin, downers, and so on, forget it. They have no place in the mystic's path.

That's my two cents...

13. Posted by yogi-one on May 16, 2007 09:46 AM

Taking drive down Leary lane, are you? hmmm
lol
V

14. Posted by Tammy on May 16, 2007 09:55 AM

Dear Ricky

Delusions not caused by drugs can be very serious indeed. But the potential tragedy of drugs, both legitimate and illegitimate, is they can induce persistent delusions in otherwise healthy minds, and lead to long-term mental illness or death.

Dear Renee

I'm happy to read your "i'm pushing dimebags of meditation,
lines of mindfulness, and bongloads of loving kindness!" -- now if you could stop being playfully playful, and get seriously playful and write a blog on such subjects directly, I'd be soooo happy.

love, Heath

15. Posted by hgquinn on May 16, 2007 02:32 PM

People should not confuse psilocybe mushrooms with Amanita Muscaria (fly agaric) which Yogi mentioned. There is no psilocybin nor psilocyn in Fly Agaric and many don't consider it a 'real' magic mushroom. Amanita Muscaria has been used as a hallucinogen but is toxic and can make you very sick, some amanita species are very toxic. I would suggest no one ever use these.

Psilocybe mushrooms are quite safe as far as not being toxic.

16. Posted by Richard Thomas on May 16, 2007 03:00 PM

Psilocybe mushrooms are quite safe as far as not being toxic.

17. Posted by Richard Thomas on May 16, 2007 03:01 PM

Is yours drug induced or not drug induced Heather? LOL!!! Just kidding. But sometimes, you too get into that like some here who are deep into it. Actually, you're one of the best when you're in a good frame of mind. You've a great understanding of the world. Known for your Clarity and beautiful language. But nowadays it is rarely seen, I think you're smoking too much charas ganja. no? LOL!

18. Posted by Ricky Ponting on May 16, 2007 03:16 PM

Dear Ricky

What delusion is that? That's what keeps me quiet, too. No smoking for me.

I'm putting my wizard hat on, and closing my eyes... [I see happiness, I sense it coming from your heart, spreading outward, then down your arms to your fingertips, and into your laughing words.] Hugs and best wishes to you, and to all those you love.

love, Heath

19. Posted by hgquinn on May 16, 2007 03:23 PM

You forgot Heather the ones(yes in plural) which you had recently. I'm talking about those ones! Were they drug induced or not? LOL!

No, don't take it too seriously. Delusion is basically a mistaken belief in the head, a misconception which is away from the facts/ground reality. It can sometimes be a protective mechanism for one's own well being, or to make oneself feel very good about oneself and the surroundings.

Well, you're a Master in understanding the emotions. Just blessed with that gift. The point from where you understand the heart and emotions of other people is magnificent. Not all the times though. I've tried many times to be like you, as that is the path I'm treading on, but often I find it too too difficult because of the mind dominated personality. I Am a no nonsense type of person, so It becomes so difficult for me when anything deviates from simple logic and common sense. But, that is exactly where love has to overrule over the mind. I find you people sometimes very lucky, that naturally you're that way, but many a times not realizing what a treasure is that, because of too much stress and importance laid upon the mind in the society we live in.

Don't even try those drugs mentioned in the thread as Renee suggested. I know you will be tempted to use those for Enlightenment because you Love drugs! LOL!

20. Posted by Ricky Ponting on May 16, 2007 04:07 PM

ricky ponting-
how dare you-
u wrote:

"Don't even try those drugs mentioned in the thread as Renee suggested. I know you will be tempted to use those for Enlightenment because you Love drugs! LOL!"

I did not "suggest" anything of the sort-
don't make me come over there!
i've got claws!

21. Posted by ReneeRZ on May 16, 2007 04:40 PM

ricky ponting-
how dare you-
u wrote:

"Don't even try those drugs mentioned in the thread as Renee suggested. I know you will be tempted to use those for Enlightenment because you Love drugs! LOL!"

I did not "suggest" anything of the sort-
don't make me come over there!
i've got claws!

22. Posted by ReneeRZ on May 16, 2007 04:40 PM

ricky ponting-
how dare you-
u wrote:

"Don't even try those drugs mentioned in the thread as Renee suggested. I know you will be tempted to use those for Enlightenment because you Love drugs! LOL!"

I did not "suggest" anything of the sort-
don't make me come over there!
i've got claws!

23. Posted by ReneeRZ on May 16, 2007 04:41 PM

ricky ponting-
how dare you-
u wrote:

"Don't even try those drugs mentioned in the thread as Renee suggested. I know you will be tempted to use those for Enlightenment because you Love drugs! LOL!"

I did not "suggest" anything of the sort-
don't make me come over there!
i've got claws!

24. Posted by ReneeRZ on May 16, 2007 04:42 PM

Renee,

I can't believe no one mentioned how hilarious reality
can be in about stage three of the episode.

The next day your stomach muscles hurt from laughing.

And memory...you remember these episodes for a long, long time.

Some of them will definitely be unforgettable.

And bonding...if your with a good, peace-loving group of friends,
the next day you will feel exposed, knowing
that you probably acted very silly at times.

Nevertheless...after an all-nighter and watching the sunrise together,
you will have enlarged your circle of intimate friends.

Precautions need be taken, no doubt.

If you have to go to the store for something ridiculous,
everyone you see seems to be like Charlie Chaplain.

Try to keep yourself from laughing over that one!

25. Posted by Keith on May 16, 2007 04:43 PM

Dear Renee

Do not you feel that by labeling or calling Buddhism as a psychoactive agent, you are missing the very essential aspect of spiritual transformation?

If you recall, Aldus Huxley used to say that what Buddha got (the state of enlightenment) in six years of grueling practice I get that in 6 seconds after ingesting LSD.

However, he forgot that Buddha did not need to hunt for LSD every time he wanted to get high.

More so, our obsession with exotic state of enlightenment borders on spiritual materialism. We need to ask people to pay attention to the small things in their daily life rather being obsessed with some alternative state of being.

How different it is if one is waiting for a lot of money to live better and other is waiting to experience an alternative state of being?

Both let us miss the present—the very essence of the enlightenment.

With love and peace from this part of the planet, Parmjit

26. Posted by Parmjit Singh on May 16, 2007 05:39 PM

Why was Buddha laughing?

27. Posted by Bonnie on May 16, 2007 06:13 PM

You want the truth or the lie?

28. Posted by Jeff on May 16, 2007 06:16 PM

The problem with using psilocybin in fashion mentioned by Renee Reeser Zelnick, is the same as the problem with using LSD. While some patients (probably more with psilocybin) would find it comforting and an effective way to deal with the pain, others could have quite the opposite reaction. The negatives can be greatly reduced by controlling set and setting but the results cannot be fully controlled for.

Those who have an adverse reaction, can have an extreme reaction. Consider what it might be like to feel every tiny part of your body and the extreme pain that it is enduring. Being extraordinarily aware of every pain, every discomfort - being hyperfocused on your newfound sensory awareness. Endlessly analyzing every feeling, every second feeling like hours.

I have used a lot of psilocybin. I have had a fairly decent array of sensory experiences while on it (acid as well). While I usually went for more pleasurable experiences (the sex, for example, can really rock), I have also endured less pleasant sensations. After having tried it on LSD and found it effectively neutralized the pain (actually made it feel kind of ticklish), I was sprayed with mace while on psilocybin. It was not such a grand experience - it felt like it was literally melting my face. It was a supersensory moment as well, unfortunately. I believed that I was actually feeling individual skin cells and tissue cells, bursting as they melted.

I just cannot buy into the notion of giving hallucinogens to someone who is dying a brutal and painful death, unless they have a lot of previous experience with such substances and feel that it will definitely make their passing easier.

29. Posted by dwayne on May 16, 2007 06:23 PM

Dear Ricky

You've been watching a work-in-progress, regarding emotions. Don't forget that you're one of the dear friends who helped me on my way, by supporting me, yelling at me, and teasing me when I needed it. Rare are the people with the intelligence and courage to speak out when speaking needs to be done. You, sir, are a rare friend.

Dear Renee

I know you know this, but it's worth saying anyway, for readers who don't: Ricky is joking, and he knows me well enough to tease me with impunity.

love, Heath

30. Posted by hgquinn on May 16, 2007 07:04 PM

Hey Ram! One small misunderstanding, thru' this net communication can get pretty bad sometimes.

Renee: At the outset, I clearly mentioned I enjoy reading your posts and I think high of you. Then my post to Bonnie, I clearly shared her thoughts, saying nothing like being clean and pure, especially the joy of meditation. You yourself clearly mentioned, in Capitals that too, plz don't try. With this background, did you think I misunderstood you? What I meant was, don't try those drugs as Renee suggests. Renee suggests what? It is clear in your last lines. My god! Life can be so unfair. Here, I'm who thinks high of you and you didn't get that. :-(

There are two or three people with whom I've these humoros conversations. btw Renee you said you've claws too, I didn't see in your lovely picture. Are they too sharp?? :-)

Yes Dear Heather, you've been close to my heart. When I'm serious, I'm damn serious you know that. All I said about you is true, I learnt a lot from you what it means to act from the heart.
Yelling at you?? When? Oh Yeah, now I remember, LOL! maybe when you were just not ready to listen to what I was saying. You do know Heather, teaching is my passion and it's an inborn thing in me to pick up in an instant where the talents lie in people and how to let them know it and foster it. Yes, there are lots and lots of people here having their own unique talents, no doubt. The key is to realize where they lie. I was talking to waylay before and telling him, the first step is to always know what are your strengths and your weaknesses. Unfortunately, we live in such a Rough world that many a times the gems get lost. You I feel are one such. No kidding, but the kind of Potential I see in you and where you're today. My god! So unfair!! Waylay is another man with Extreme potential of making it big in the big league, but he still likes playing in small ponds sometimes. Heather, do you think he smokes lot of charas ganja? LOL! I think he just likes playing pranks while writing some serious stuff.
The new bloke Paramjit looks damn good too. Hope he doesn't lose interest when he sees the usual nastiness flinging around at ib. He looks very solid emotionally. A must to survive at ib! no? LOL!

Lastly, try to follow what Renee says. Ok? LOL! Be clean, say No to drugs, eat well, sleep well. When time permits Meditate and thank mother nature from time to time that humans have still left some clean air to breathe! God knows when we may lose that privilege too. LOL!

31. Posted by Ricky Ponting on May 16, 2007 08:54 PM

Dear Renee,
It caught my attention, this sentence in your post:
"if you want to score a really natural high, go east, in thought and practice. Meditate."

For me being in nature,
gives me a joy and high
that no drug can
(well - to confess,
I have never taken any drugs,
and rarely even prescription ones).

I have to take it on my own experience,
natural is Best
:)

love,
~ Kate

and thanks for writing here
at IB!

Ricky,
I do hope we can keep breathing
clean air!
(my fingers are crossed :)

32. Posted by Kate... on May 16, 2007 11:43 PM

Dear Ricky

Thank you for everything in #31. I, too, like Dr. P. Singh's writings. Real nastiness seems to have mellowed way down, over the past year, and we have all learned to see the humor that's at the core of the teasing that often goes on.

love, Heath

33. Posted by hgquinn on May 17, 2007 01:17 AM

I am not a fear mongerer but after publicly stating what you just said you may not want to leave the US because they may not let you back in. Many people have said less and and done less publicly and had problems when their names were googled by over zealous border guards.

However for the record I agree with what you said. There are many ways to enliven the heart but they must not be destructive to the body or perceptions of the world.

Humans are humans and we do what we do even if the heart does not understand why!

34. Posted by quartzheart on May 17, 2007 07:25 AM

oh- ricky-
I know you're not being hateful-
this is the problem w/ the typed word:
context and tone are often misread-

i was joking about the claws anyhoo-

i just appreciate the fact you took the time to comment-

but do not say i recommend people to use chemicals-
I'm recommending meditation ;)

Thanks for your time
seriously :)

blessings and peace to all-

35. Posted by ReneeRZ on May 17, 2007 11:22 AM

Hi Renee,
What does the word hateful mean? I do not know any such word. I only know love peace and joy :-)

Yeah that's the downside of anything which is not natural, these machines. How can they convey the tenderness, the softness, the gentleness which we have in our hearts. no?

Forget about the past small misunderstanding. I've been recommending exactly what you said and in future too, if someone asks me about this. I will frankly tell, without any fear that Renee told me "these chemicals are not good, and they don't take you anywhere near enlightenment and they are only transitory ecstatic experiences and that too hallucinatory"

My Dear old time friend Heather has stopped it totally now, since I told her not to go on such illusionary destructive paths. The natural path is The Best!! Meditation, spending lot of time in Nature,(Kate knows a lot about this) having good conversations, drinking fruit juices and not alcohol. Now, Heather is jumping and dancing all the time(sorry heather for taking this liberty to tell renee about you) :-) And now she is recommending to her nephews too. See, how the good consciousness spreads.

On a serious note Renee, you bring in lot of good stuff. It will be nicer for ib if you can put in more efforts in interacting with those posters who are really into these subjects.

You're an Amish girl. Am I right?

Peace.

36. Posted by Ricky Ponting on May 17, 2007 12:02 PM

Ricky-
Actually i was shunned during the the great amish tobacco famine in '89-

I was caught smoking pumpkin seeds behind Levi Stoltzfus' barn.

i interact as much as i can :0)
see- I'm doing it now :)

37. Posted by ReneeRZ on May 17, 2007 12:12 PM

Heath-
can I hire you to write the piece you requested?

i'm kinda busy @ the moment :)

38. Posted by ReneeRZ on May 17, 2007 12:19 PM

Reneeeeeeeeeee!!!!!

Pumpkin seeds????? Now everybody knows that you can get high on pumpkin seeds. I thought that was a secret. Guess I better plant a pumpkin patch this year.
:o)

Bonnie

39. Posted by Bonnie on May 17, 2007 12:30 PM

Pumpkin seeds smoking? huh? I thought pumpkin was for eating. lol! My god! People do what not for joy and ecstacy. no Renee? Oh well, but I'm sure now you're no more into Pumpkins. You seem to be clean and nice. :-)

I do not know much about Amish community, but something which I liked very much was the way they Stress on the importance of Nature in their living. I'm totally a nature boy! My mom had told me, my first words were not mama or lala but ne-ne ne cher it seems. I never watched tv or played video games. I used to play with baby animals and spend time gardening.

Deepak was often asked this q about the role of drugs on the spiritual path to enlightenment. He clearly said NO! In sufism too, it is not uncommon. To sensitise the awareness they do, but as we discussed it is not real. When there are so many natural highs in life to choose, why would you want to do that? I too have great fascination towards Buddhism, the buddhist monks are awesome.

40. Posted by Ricky Ponting on May 17, 2007 12:39 PM

Dear Renee

I know you don't know me well, nor I you. So least you think otherwise, my post above was meant as just good natured fun. I just couldn't resist. I keep forgetting that intent can be lost on the internet.

Love
Bonnie

41. Posted by Bonnie on May 17, 2007 12:52 PM

If drugs are chemicals which give unreal spiritual perceptions, If movies I watch are pixels and my crying, laughing, feelings of love etc are unreal, If robots with AI are machines and my love for them and my doll are unreal, what is that thing that is real? Is it nature? What is unreal about the feelings I have from a movie, a drug and a doll?

42. Posted by Hypocrite on May 17, 2007 01:07 PM

Only the Self is real Hypocrite! Myself, yourself, ourself this is real. LOL! All those feelings you mentioned above are unreal, like your name, Hypocrite. Try to be Genuine. LOL!

43. Posted by Ricky Ponting on May 17, 2007 01:20 PM

If the only thing that is real is the Self(God), the normal feelings of love , sorrow and sadness I have are unreal. So every other experience I have other than the feeling of Oneness or Self are unreal. basically I have unreal experiences even if I use some drugs or drink orange juice. Not only drugs give delusion, normal food does too. If my spirit has the real experience of Self, that CAN be without using drugs as in meditation in Buddhism, or using drugs in some exotic paths.

Drugs don't delude your Self.

44. Posted by Hypocrite on May 17, 2007 01:36 PM

Ricky, that's an example of Advaita shuffle for you in #44.

45. Posted by Hypocrite on May 17, 2007 02:14 PM

Dear Renee

I'm smiling at the joke, but even if you were serious, there's no way I could fit into your shoes. You're lightning, so strike well. :D

love, Heath

46. Posted by hgquinn on May 17, 2007 02:53 PM

Well, I have not been able to read any of the comments as I am very short on time. However, I did read all of Renee's post - well scanned most of it, as I found it interesting.

Personally, I don't think one needs to do drugs to reach higher states of consciousness, nor do I think drugs can hurt or hinder reaching a certain state. I think that drugs only work, if we believe they work, as we each decide individually how we want a drug to work. A drug is like a tool for us to use to reach a desired effect, i.e., it's not the actual drug, but the mind that controls what will happen.

For example, I can take a drug and think to myself that it will have not an effect and it will not. However, I can take that same drug and say to myself I want it to do this or that and it will most likely perform as I desire, if I truly put my mind to it and believe it.

Well, that's my 2 cents.

Love, Char

47. Posted by Char4 on May 17, 2007 07:02 PM

Dear ranee,
What is the different between the people who make religion making ritual using drug and make religion using the word of Buddhas?

48. Posted by A-Man=No-Mind on May 21, 2007 02:31 AM

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