Dr. Chopra:

Came back after a lot of days.. absolutely fantastic piece. Every word in this post is just perfectly sewn in!

Insistence on faith has outsourced the urge and importance of exploration.. the inherent importance of questioning and moving beyond.. in science and religion.

Last night I was at the Atlanta airport.. and happened to meet a priest from the BAPS (Swaminarayana sect). He was proudly telling me how even the most accomplished of lawyers and doctors in the sect do as they are told by Pramukh Maharaj-ji. They do not pay any heed to their own urge or need.

Is that intellectual blindness inflicted by insistence on Faith? Absolutely yes!

It is no different in other sects and religions... and unfortunately science as well.

The faithful of all hues are in the business of customizing the dead for the coffins they construct rather than the other way around.

Thanks for the article!

Cheers,
Desh
Drishtikone.com

If anyone can grasp the weirdness of existence itself, then they have caught a glimpse of their Supreme Being both noun and verb.

God doesn't make it easy for God’s self to be found since the "total effect", “ultimate experience” and “fantastic journey” to the center of existence, which one never really left, depends on one’s truth being hidden, a mystery unto one’s self.

Creating this situation, a sort of amnesia, is a great, almost impossible challenge for God, since God is the one doing all the looking and God is not going to be able to fool himself very easily, luckily God got so mesmerized by the infinite possibilities of different states of being, that he forgot all about being God.

To weave an inescapable web of entanglement is the supreme trick, in that it must trap the ultimate being both noun and verb.

Knowing that the real fun starts when one becomes lucid (as seen in Infinite Play the Movie) “aware of one’s greater reality” in the dream, while still being inside he built in a few clues and reminders regarding his true nature. Yet at the same time he didn’t want to become fully awake and ruin a good thing so he built in a few triggers that fired when he thought he had it all figured out achieving super self realization and was getting too close to ULTIMATE self realization. These triggers would produce events that would had God wondering to himself, if I am really God then how could I be in this situation, why do I have problems? They only appear to be problems to the finite mind, to the infinite mind which understands the full scope of things they are simply the stepping stones.

God is not wanting to be trapped in the same illusion for an eternity. It would be hell to be an immortal character and is part of the reason for this whole exercise in the first place. The other in case a particular instance of God failed to pick up on the clues, hints and signs, and to further the evolution of dream consciousness, God put a timer on the vessel for consciousness so that it he would eventually wake up by default, a feature we call death.

At the same time, since all time is the same, God would not want self discovery to be easy, so one created some layers to work through loaded with side trips and traps.

A measure of the systems effectiveness would be that God would doubt his own existence.

I am sure you can all relate though, watching a good movie, entirely forgetting your own existence, till someone spills the popcorn in our lap and we sort of straddle the two realms of experience.

Revelation and Self Realization are all about spilling the popcorn on the lap of humanity during the movie.

Really the questions and areas for holistic scientific exploration are:

Does the intangible give rise to the tangible? I think science has determined that it does. In other words does the non-physical “without form” gives rise to form. What is the nature of cause and effect in the intangible realm, of subatomic particles / quantum particles? What is the nature of causality, cause and effect in this intangible realm that may all be about fields and things we can’t touch or view or measure (except for their effects?

Is there intelligence active in creating form and function in the universe? Is there embedded autonomous intelligence in the universe? Is there a conscious intelligence in the universe? Do both exist? How much data is available to this conscious intelligence? Does it do linear processing or is it capable of parallel processing?

Does a single instance of intelligence and point of presence (POP) and experience have a connection to some or all other POPS?

Are we God in disguise?

If am not wearing a mask then who am I?

Is that what Halloween is all about?

"that there is a fundamental cause of all existence." ~Einstein

As I wrote here on intent blog, I think just once the past as a prelude 714, and it isn't written any where else because I discovered and articulated it as a result of thought experiments that have never been done before.

As we all know nothing does not need to be created it exists even if there is no universe NOTHING is an automatic thing even if there is "nothing else". We could call NOTHING the before creation "state".

The fundamental cause of existence is nothing.
~Myself

Nothing is a state, which immediately by it’s existence creates the complimentary state "something". You see nothing must exist even if nothing else does exist, yet this very fact creates something. Something not created by “God”. This phenomenon simply is. Just like the square root of 49, Pi and Phi exists in a NULL universe. it’s like a the ultimate miracle.

Now you may wonder what on earth could this state of nothing create since there are no elements and not even time or space? Good question.

It creates the strangest thing in the universe; it creates a creature best described as awareness or self consciousness. Don't even try to guess what it is made of, what it's parts are, properties or principles it has none. This is the mystery that can never be known, it is the knower. You can know it, because it is you. Know your self. You can’t even look at it because it is the looker, all you can see are it’s effects.

Well I just explained the answer to the ultimate question, where God the Universe and you (not your ego you) but you the witness came from.

It happens in every moment again, and again, and again and again.. and again and again ad infinitum

Of course in order for it the universe to exist, that element that is in contrast to nothing, it's complimentaary state "BEING", awareness is required.

Therefore God did not create the universe, it just happens by default.
~Myself

You can quote me on that, and you know who I AM.

Yo Richard
"A measure of the systems effectiveness would be that God would doubt his own existence."

This is actually a very powerful staement to me.
If God is in me he must doubt his own existance.

Yo Deepak
Which God are you and Einstein talking about. The Christian God or some supernatural mysterious spirit?

I believe it is a possible that we have mstaken God for an advanced civilazation millions or even billions of years more advanced than us who co-exist with us but are just out of our understanding. Like we are to ants. We co-exist with them but I doubt they fully understand that we exist.

Wouldn't it be funny if after all this time we could just realize ET is sitting right next to us and we have had glimpses of them and call them God?

derek

Dearest Deepak,

Thank you for these great posts. I would comment, but as I mentioned on Avtar's post, I really wore myself out on your first one.

So again, hope all have a great USA Labor Day weekend!

Love, Char

Yo...it is AS possible...........

I know I exist with and without ego, I know I'm typing right now.

The rest is smoke and mirrors, psycho babble and speculation. Fun stuff but there is no real answer. So far no one can say anything that puts the questions to rest.

Where did the universe come from?
Is there a God?
What came before God?
What was before the Big Bang?
Was there a Big Bang?
What happens after we die?

I would like to hear a simple, understandable,definitive answer to any of these questions. Even one. That even a simple person like me could understand.

derek

Derek, we are extraterrestrials and this is a grand social experiment. What do you think advanced beings do for entertainment?

I am going to Mexican Restaurant right now and that is an experience advanced beings like to have and is exactly why they created this world.

I knew it. Mexican Food.............that's it.

Yo Richard
Thanks for not taking me to serious. I'm sure Deepak gets a laugh from me as well. I can't imagine him taking me too serious either.
Of coarse he wouldn't tell me that on his blog. He's got real stuff to do.

silly humans

derek

Dear Doodleman

My intention is to continue with this series so that your questions will be answered, but here are my very short responses.

Where did the universe come from?
The universe came from nothing, a point of zero volume and pure potentially.

Is there a God?
There is a field of consciousness that simultaneously manifests as observer and observed. Both observer and observed simultaneously co-arise and co-evolve.

What came before God?
There is no before and after as applied to a field of consciousness that exists outside of and transcends space and time.

What was before the Big Bang?
A field of pure potentiality that transcends space and time.

Was there a Big Bang?
Yes from the relative point of view, there was. 13.8 Billion years ago (in earth time).

What happens after we die?
Consciousness continues to evolve and simultaneously co-arise as observer and observed. You are not a person, but the consciousness that projects itself as both the person and its objects of perception.

I hope these points help.

Love Deepak

Thank you doodleman for asking and thank you Deepak for answering.

Richard, I tend to agree with your #7!:)

Love and Peace, Melissa

Is this really Deepak?
Like Keith noticed the other day there is no contributor sign to the right. Hummmmmmm

I will presume it is you for now. So thank you for your response.

The answers you have given are more of the same that I have heard for many years.
I guess I will have much to learn before they resolve the questions for me. They are still above my head.

I respect and appreciate you taking the time out to respond.
I will keep myself open.

Peace and Love to you Deepak

derek

quite absorbing!

And Yo thanks again for providing a place to explore and grow and be irreverant and reverant. All the things that make us such a miracle.

I do believe our collective consciousness has room for us all.
Even if these questions are never answered in simple enough terms for a doodleman.

peace comes from peace

derek

No it's not Deepak, or there would be a little yellow flower design next to his name.

Love, Char

Since I had some time this afternoon, with nothing to read, I found this in my search of God - it's an old document, but I think it's kind of an interesting take. I am not saying I agree with what is said either, but open about it. It now free information, i.e., no copy write.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

MAGICK WITHOUT TEARS
By Aleister Crowley

Chapter XXX: Do you believe in God?

Cara Soror,

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

You are quite right, as usual. True, we have gone over a great deal of the ground in various learned disquisitions of Gods, Angels, Elves, et hoc genus omne.

But God with a capital "G" in the singular is a totally different pair of Blüchers—nicht wahr?

Let me go back just for a moment to the meaning of "belief." We agreed that the word was senseless except as it implies an opinion, instinct, conviction—what you please!—so firmly entrenched in our natures that we act automatically as if it were "true" and "certain without error," perhaps even "of the essence of truth."1 (Browning discusses this in Mr. Sludge the Medium.) Good: the field is clear for an enquiry into this word God.

We find ourselves in trouble from the start.

We must define; and to define is to limit; and to limit is to reduce "God" to "a God" or at best "the God."

He must be omniscient (Mercury) omnipotent, (Sulphur) and omnipresent (Salt);2 yet to such a Being no purpose would be possible; so that all the apologies for the existence of "evil" crash. If there be opposites of any kind, there can be no consistency. He cannot be Two; He must be One; yet, as is obvious, he isn't.

How do the Hindu philosophers try to get out of this quag? "Evil" is "illusion;" has no "real" existence. Then what is the point of it?

They say "Not that, not that!" denying to him all attributes; He is "that which is without quantity or quality." They contradict themselves at every turn; seeking to remove limit, they remove definition. Their only refuge is in "superconsciousness." Splendid! but now "belief" has disappeared altogether; for the word has no sense unless it is subject to the laws of normal thought... Tut! you must be feeling it yourself; the further one goes, the darker the path. All I have written is somehow muddled and obscure, maugre my frenzied struggle for lucidity, simplicity . . . .

Is this the fault of my own sophistication? I asked myself. Tell you what! I'll trot round to my masseuse, and put it up to her. She is a simple country soul, by no means over-educated, but intelligent; capable of a firm grasp of the principles of her job; a steady church-goer on what she considers worthwhile occasions; dislikes the rector, but praises his policy of keeping his discourse within bounds. She has done quite a lot of thinking for herself; distrusts and despises the Press and the Radio, has no use for ready-made opinions. She shares with the flock their normal prejudices and phobias, but is not bigoted about them, and follows readily enough a line of simply-expressed destructive criticism when it is put to her. This is, however, only a temporary reaction; a day later she would repeat the previous inanities as if they had never been demolished. In the late fifties, at a guess. I sprang your question on her out of the blue, à la "doodle-bug;" premising merely that I had been asked the question, and was puzzled as to how to answer it. Her reply was curious and surprising: without a moment's hesitation and with great enthusiasm, "Quickly, yes!" The spontaneous reservation struck me as extremely interesting. I said: of course, but suppose you think it over—and out—a bit, what am I to understand? She began glibly "He's a great big—" and broke off, looking foolish. Then, although omnipotent, He needed our help—we were all just as powerful as He, for we were little bits of each other—but exactly how, or to what end, she did not make clear. An exclamation: "Then there is the Devil!"

She went on without a word from me for a long while, tying herself up into fresh knots with every phase. She became irreverent, then downright blasphemous; stopped short and began to laugh at herself. And so forth—but, what struck me as curious and significant, in the main her argument followed quite closely the lines which came naturally to me, at the beginning of this letter!

In the end, "curiouser and curiouser," she arrived at a practically identical conclusion: she believed, but what she believed in was Nothing!

As to our old criterion of what we imply in practice when we say that we believe, she began by saying that If we "helped" God in His mysterious plan, He would in some fashion or other look after us. But about this she was even more vague than in the matter of intellectual conviction; "helping God" meant behaving decently according to one's own instinctive ideas of what "decently" means.

It is very encouraging that she should have seen, without any prompting on my part, to what a muddle the question necessarily led; and very nice for me, because it lets me out, cara soror!

Love is the law, love under will.

Fraternally,

666

P.S. I thought it a good plan to put my fundamental position all by itself in a postscript; to frame it. My observation of the Universe convinces me that there are beings of intelligence and power of a far higher quality than anything we can conceive of as human; that they are not necessarily based on the cerebral and nervous structures that we know; and that the one and only chance for mankind to advance as a whole is for individuals to make contact with such Beings.

1: Crowley is alluding to the preamble to the "Emerald Tablet of Hermes" which is more usually translated along the lines of: "True, without error (or "falsehood"), certain and most true." – T.S.

2: The original had the symbols for alchemical mercury, sulphur and salt.

© Ordo Templi Orientis. Original key entry by W.E. Heidrick for O.T.O. HTML coding by Frater T.S. for Nu Isis Working Group.

MAGICK WITHOUT TEARS
By Aleister Crowley

"..............................
Chapter XXVIII: Need to Define "God", "Self", etc.
But nobody else will have the same set of qualities in his private museum; you have, as every one has always done, made another God in your own image....."

To keep this one short, but thought it was interesting as well, so here's the book mark in case anyone is interested. Now I wish I had time to read this today, but might on Tues.

http://www.hermetic.com/crowley/mwt/mwt_28.html

Love, Char

Is there a God?

Thus spoke Deepak:

There is a field of consciousness that simultaneously manifests as observer and observed. Both observer and observed simultaneously co-arise and co-evolve.

And God, I mean the observer/observed said it was good.

And the observer/observed said go and co-arise.

And the observer/observed said it is not good that the observer/observed be alone. And the observer/observed created the observer/observed out of the rib of the observer/observed.

And the observer/observed said to the differentiated field that was Abram, "Go forth from your native land and from your father's house to the land that I (observer/observed) will show you.

I can sense that the observer/observed really really cares for the observer/observed.

Cheers,

Steve

Great post Deepak! I am looking forward to reading the next installment! Olivia

Awesome thread already. I think this is one of Deepak's best posts; like Desh said, every word fits perfectly.

Deepak, thanks for articulating so clearly what's on many minds.

Doodleman, what wonderful questions!
And what neat answers, Deepak (I'm sure it's Deepak and not an impostor; the words carry his stamp).

Derek, your second question ("is there a God?") first needs an answer to your question in #4 ("which God are you talking about?"). Otherwise the question becomes a trap. Deepak himself said in his post that the patriarchal image is no longer relevant. I think that's the Christian God you refer to, though there are some (Deepak, Eckhart Tolle) that interpret parts of the Bible differently to paint a non-dualistic picture.

For all those who want to define 'God' better, I offer up this:
http://www.avgsatsang.org/hhpsds/pdf/Vedic_Vision_of_God.pdf

Dear Dr. Chopra:

Honestly speaking I have never read any of your books. I would like to but never have took the effort.. but I have known you from your posts only.

The more I read your posts.. the more I come to think that as much hailed as you are by the world... in the Vedantic tradition, you surely would be one of the most (grossly) under-rated of all thinkers! I am amazed at your consistency and the loftiness of your vision / thought at most times!

You share that trait with Vivekananda. Where you differ is your "political correctness" vs his "aggressive" honesty. Although you have never said the things in as many words.. but I can always sense in the words written and unwritten that you are conveying the same things of prevalent practices, sects, beliefs and religions.. without seeming to do so.

May the tradition of this high Vedantic thinking continue!

Cheers,
Desh
Drishtikone.com

One call it God , a religion or science the essence lay in search (KHOJ) nothing is beyond or before it .there is no beginning or no end Einstein search of law of universe ,Mother Teresa doubt about God and died without resolving that point , Gutam Buddha search for pain and his solution could ever bring peace to the follower of his principles ?isint it each one of has our own God which reveal itself during the search by and then ,one may call it consciousness ,a supreme power , a creator .
It seems nothing is possible with this present limited form of us ,Dr Deepak I had my answer!! , your post put me again into lot confusion. lol

Something is not all right
Sitting tight lipped
Will not work in spite
Need to find out ! right ??
Thee the projection
Of Cosmo prime
Dancing in tune with thine
Self a part, bewildered with universal shine
Something working from behind
Sitting tight lipped will not work , right?
Before silence crawl inside being
Groping for home? at home
Something is functioning behind the curtains
Grace is showering is certain?
Death cannot silent any question
Question is pinned on the board
Child is struggling to come out of womb
Stuck between the walls of two cotyledons
Tiny creamy leaf peeking out to be green
Princy walking gracefully
From the hatched egg
Is the bliss of answer hidden in that awe?
Is answer itself a question ?
Or question is an answer?
Something is not all right
Sitting tight lipped
Will not work in spite
Need to find it out ! right??

Dear Deepak,

If we say some (no)things in fact are beyond our comprehension,
isn't that an understanding of contradictions?
I may need more time to learn this, let me see...

.

West says there is no 'other', if there is no conscious me.
East says we are the 'other', and there is no one me.

East says I am That or I am God,
and the West says, 'blasphemy'!

God doesn't need Time or Space, unless
It is a process of transformation.

It takes Time to co-evolve, and
we need Space to co-exist.

.

Who transcends what?
Is anybody out there,
or in here, other than me?
If you are, well then, Hello!

"Love love...love life...and love one another."

Yo! I hear ya, subtle bum!
Now, about that Light...

keith, char and everyone-

i am a humble contributor to the blog-
and i don't have "a little yellow symbol"

we sign into a diff type key system to comment back-
just fyi.....

depends how u were set up via admin.....

peace.
Renee

I checked and Deepak previously used "deepakc" as the Type Key account, this one above is deepakchopra1.

Of course he could have created a new type key account.

But who is really behind every mask?

Hey there Deepak,
Thanks for writing in - it's nice to know that you are here and enjoy reading the comments, and when you right back - it's really a conversation of dimension - where great ideas are exchanged.

love to you,
~ Kate

Altered state, or not - Steve is a good guy! :-)I like your # 17 I may even - understand it!

write back .......

:)
~ Kate

Well, of course Deepak, you are impersonating yourSelf!

Edmund,
:)
~ Kate

Another magic moment, Kate:)

can someone please explain the answers in # 9 in english...whoa! ...that went right ova me! damn!

There is a field of consciousness that simultaneously manifests as observer and observed. Both observer and observed simultaneously co-arise and co-evolve.

12:46pm simultaneous, Diablo. Did you observe that, damn? What field are you in? Look out for crop-circles!

how do u know this Ed?

This is one of your greatest series of posts on this blog.

Einstien wasn't the only mystic/scientist of his time. Also the great logician and mathematician Kurt Godel saw himself as a mystic. Imagine that: a man whose life was devoted to developing logic, yet seeing himself as a mystic. Go figure!

My opinion is that it takes a very penetrating mind, and the ability to look deeply inside the mysteries of the existence to be either a scientist or a mystic.

Science and the mystical viewpoint seem very naturally to go together to me.

I believe the so-called split between science and religion is entirely manufactured by political motivations.

Instead, what I have seen from many scientists, is that the deeper they go into science, the more they develop a sense of awe and reverence for Existence.

Blessed are those who don't buy easy answers, but are driven to keep exploring no matter what!

"Albert Einstein wrote:
"I have never talked to a Jesuit prest in my life. I am astonished by the audacity to tell such lies about me. From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest I am, of course, and have always been an atheist."

"I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one.You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from religious indoctrination received in youth."

"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."

"During the youthful period of mankind's spiritual evolution, human fantasy created gods in man's own image who, by the operations of their will were supposed to determine, or at any rate influence, the phenomenal world... The idea of God in the religions taught at present is a sublimation of that old conception of the gods. Its anthropomorphic character is shown, for instance, by the fact that men appeal to the Divine Being in prayers and plead for the fulfillment of their wishes... In their struggle for the ethical good, teachers of religion must have the stature to give up the doctrine of a personal God, that is, give up that source of fear and hope which in the past placed such vase power in the hands of priests."

"Thus I came...to a deep religiosity, which, however, reached an abrupt end at the age of 12. Through the reading of popular scientific books I soon reached a conviction that much in the stories of the Bible could not be true....Suspicion against every kind of authority grew out of this experience...an attitude which has never left me."

"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death."

"I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one.You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from religious indoctrination received in youth."

I wonder if this is the case with some here at IB?

Steve

says amber...and kate got it...

"And the observer/observed said it is not good that the observer/observed be alone. And the observer/observed created the observer/observed out of the rib of the observer/observed." absolutely original dude....yo,

Diablo#33 "how do u know this Ed?"

I don't, D. The words, as you probably observed, were one of Deepak's answers to Derek which I forgot to "oo"
I was just a bit gob-smacked that twice in a row I had been prompted to post at exactly the same time as Kate and yourself so I played on it with you and your asking for meaning.

Actually, I do 'know' and it does require an altered state of consciousness on your part as well as mine. 'Telepathy' is one of spin-offs, symptoms?. Words and reasonings can be just the stave-offs! I rarely trust them.

I like you! It's not the first time, lately that you've turned up and posted around the same minute I was considering......entanglement, damn!

I don’t really know what I am doing, but God does, so I don’t really worry about it. I just watch him work.

~Infinite Play the Movie

Hello Deepak and Everyone,

Deepak writes,"He was looking for God behind the curtain of material appearances. The key word here is "subtle." Like all scientists, Einstein explored the material world, but he perceived a subtler region of existence. Notice that he didn't claim that is religious belief was pure faith. Perception was involved, personal intimation through the mind. In short, Einstein was well aware that consciousness and God were intimately linked."

I read this in the Perfection of Nothing by Rick Lewis...." The deepest and most subtle feeling sense in the body is the presence of God itself. We come to know this through the body, through being willing to love--that is, feel--the body in its current state and fall into an intimacy with it through the use of our attention. That will take us to a place we never dreamed or imagined we might arrive at through this human vehicle.

and this makes sense to me, since we are at our most naked, when stripped of our "story/identity" pure consciousness, our link with god is without question, it is an impossibility.

have a great day everyone, ruth

The only forms of God I see in the world are artisticly made.
Sculptures of Hindu gods, paintings of the christian God ect.......
Then there are the visions by various holy men and women.........
And God speaks to the speacial few................
Yo

Now we have a quantum god that exists in the consciousness field grazing on very small particles that come and go through the universe.............

But still no interactive god that hangs out and talks to everyone.
Still no supernatural being that is anything other than a projection of my innerself. Me. Just another part of me.

So my next question is,
What is the point of trying to explain, understand or raise questions about "God" in whatever form?

I like the idea of secular spirituality.
I don't feel spirituality needs anything supernatural or mystical.
The human miracle and the energy that comes from us is all that is needed to explain spirituality.

I did not know Einstein so I can not say how he really felt and like so many "celebrities" alive and dead, he can be miss quoted and over interpreted. For me however he felt or didn't feel about God is irrelevant to the discussion on God. He was just another human with no more answers than me.

With much and all due respect Deepak, the answers you gave me were just more stuff. Just more fluffy, complicated words with no real resonance to my soul.

I am a very open and reasonable person who has observed many belief systems and the people within them. I am not an intellectual or spiritual master of any kind, but in my observations over the years I have not wittnessed anyone or anything that leads me to believe spirituality is anything but our humaness in all it's expressions.

When I asked the questions I did not expect any answers because to me they are irrelevant. Just fun questions to play with that have an unlimited amount of answers according to who is answering them.
To me it does not matter where we came from.
We are here.
It does not matter if there is a God.
We are here with or without god.
And to be concerned about what is after death only takes me away from the now.

I respect and honor you and your way of looking at our mysterious and miraculous existance Deepak, and everyone here.

Namaste to all

derek the simple doodleman

and yo I do feel honored that you chose to resopnd to me.

I wish much Love Compassion and Peace to you Deepak

Secular as human-priest out
Secular as human-law out

The past full of non separative-knowledge
Bodies-alive without any physical-inner-sciences

Billions of human walking the earth, looking the sky
Because of them today, we are

Human land-dried with Smart-time
Out of water-life, conscious-life

Naturally-mentally stimulated to dive back
No move, we still don't know

Wrong path
Mummifying-humans, dissecting-nature...

afternoon everyone,

to clairfy #40 I wrote,"and this makes sense to me, since we are at our most naked, when stripped of our "story/identity" pure consciousness, our link with god is without question, it is an impossibility."

should read,

and this makes sense to me, since, we are, at our most naked when stripped of our "story/identity" the most naked, pure consciousness, our link with god is without dispute, an impossibility of being separate from this experience of god itself.

ruth

well I tried to clarify but I see I made another error, but hopefully someone gets my drift..clearly I am off my game today...

anyway,

Derek your response to Deepak is interesting it is like you do not like his answers to your questions..I guess being told by Deepak that,"You are not a person, but the consciousness that projects itself as both the person and its objects of perception," can leave one kind of cold...

I admit the observer/observed is kind of cold hearted(haha) not as lovey/dovey sounding as a God telling Abraham to go forth and do whatever...and really when he puts it that way it also leaves me kind of cold...I would prefer something more poetic, uplifting, inspiring- vocabulary wise...but, hang in there, the mystery is just a mystery...a to be solved, that each individual gets to tackle in their lifetime...no one is special yet each of us is....

Nisargadatta has a beautiful saying, " I speak to you in the language that was yours before words were first introduced to you...However, you have to understand the meaning in the language that you have learned....can be extremely frustrating..to try to comprehend the mystery.

but the "I speak to you in the language that was yours before words were first introduced to you," is a great sentence for contemplation purposes...one of my favoites!

have a great day ruth

Derek,

There is some wisdom in what you posted. It is sort of like, is one going to spend all day analyzing how the roller coaster works or are you going to ride it.

Of course there are those that ride the roller coaster, hands gripping tightly, and eyes closed, teeth clenching in FEAR. There are those “faithful in the engineer and architect” that let go with their hands up in the air, eyes open, living the intense moment of that first big hill in LOVE with the whole experience.

Best thing is to just keep observing:

Watching your thoughts, intentions, desires and those of others, including what might construe as an all pervading Divine Intention. Being aware of what is, or was, in your consciousness and what is occurring in your reality.

Then observing each and every event that occurs and seeing the correlations and connections between all the events and actions, realizing the number of supporting events that were required to manifest a particular event as well as the special timing needed between many of the objects and entities.

Noticing “problems” and “errors” that occur which effect the timing of things or result in path changes or refocusing of attention.

Entertaining the idea that everything happens for a good reason because there is intelligence behind it because then you start to see the logic behind various occurrences.

Then you take into account the number of apparently free agents involved and wonder how certain things could ever have been orchestrated. Realizing that our own finite, disconnected conscious mind with it’s linear processing could never manage such a feat.

While knowing that some connected sub consciousness infinite mind, with parallel holographic processing must be operating to produce the symphony.

Of course this will all eventually be explained by science for now God and The Mystical are just terms for things science hasn’t completely figured out yet. Many new revelations will come when scientists overcome some of the flawed preconceptions about the universe. Science is already making headway in this area; however some are slow to embrace that which conflicts with the typical understanding of the workings of the universe and “perceived” reality and what “appears” to the senses.

What we find out is that we have really all been talking about the same thing the whole time, just different contexts, perspectives and a play of semantics.

One needs only to study virtual particles and quantum tunneling to begging to grasp that there is something more than just our typical physical mechanical understanding of the universe, and that the mind and brain producing their own field effects could possibly alter physical manifestations resulting from field effect interactions with a substance in it’s wave state rather than it’s particle state. Scientists are probably correct in being adamant that the mind cannot influence an object in it’s particle state, however they seem to avoid the possibility that the “mind” or consciousness could affect an object in it’s wave state.

When the improbable becomes probable, and complex order arises from chaos, then usually intelligence is involved.

Divine Intention

Nature is amazing in it’s ability related to design and processing to use, select or adopt the most energy and resource efficient methods.

Scientists are mystified by this capability because taking all the properties and cause and effect relationships between all the participating objects atomic and subatomic (everything they can see and measure) involved they are unable to create a working computer model that manifests this masterful design capability.

This means there is something missing from the computer model. The question is what is it? Is it some unknown principle or function or is it some sort of inherit intelligence? Or both?

Is consciousness required for “intention”? I would think the answer is yes and that it is the only thing that can intend which translates into a desire for manifestation of experience.

Is intention required for manifestation? Is consciousness required for the recording of manifestation or triggering the wave to particle collapse?

If there was such a thing as Divine Intention then it would probably correlate with the function of life itself. One universal property that would be inherit in all the processes of what we call life would be it’s continuation and expansion.

Life would not have a function for “whole” self termination; because of it did it would not exist and we can see that it does. Any other scenario would not work and therefore does not exist.

Life may actually have a function though to terminate anti life components that manifested. These apparently dysfunctional components may even temporarily support the primary function of life which may be the purpose for their temporary existence.

Life’s primary naturally inherit functions would be those of preservation, expansion and enhancement otherwise there would be no evolution.

There is no authoritarian God per say as much as there are authoritarian principles at work in the universe.

Here is an advanced insider preliminary notion and insight.

In a Stateful universe, evolutionary events do not need to have actually occurred or have ever been witnessed by consciousness; they only need to be calculated to have occurred for the sum effect to be manifested in the present moment. In other words these components only exist in a virtual timeline that occupies the wave frame or intangible realm of the universe. The big bang never actually happens, it is only calculated to have happened to give rise to the current state.

The only thing in the universe that actually happens is what you witness everything else is simply a background calculation.
~Infinite Play the Movie

The above piece which articulates the masterful design capability of nature and the universe illuminates the primary foundational flaw of most scientific or mankind initiated endeavors. it is the greatest impediment to the advancement of humanity and science.

That foundational flaw is the premise that nature and the observable universe is random and accidental and therefore subject to flaws that man can somehow correct.

What we find as a truth is that it is actually man's choice of perception that is flawed.

Nature and all it's manifesting are perfect in design and it is only man that creates flaws in his attempt to alter or manipulate natural design without understanding the entire system and the interrelationships between all things. So rather than integrating man’s creations with nature, man attempts to force it’s creations upon nature.

Although nature is perfect in design, this does not mean that damage cannot occur to one of it’s systems or the components in it’s systems. Nature however has built in functions to correct and repair damage or restore a system to balance.

Insect pests are not pests they exist as part of a perfect design and have a beneficial purpose. Therefore the use of pesticides is done out of ignorance, what is needed is the proper replenishment of soil with the molecules needed to support the chemical functions of the plant and it’s growth, so that it is healthy. Pests serve the purpose of eliminating damaged or unhealthy plants. Healthy plants tend to be resistance

This is another reason mosquitoes have a greater attraction to people that have vitamin deficiencies. The whole West Nile fear thing is really an illusionary threat. People with a healthy immune system have nothing to fear. Rather than educating how to boost the immune system though which provides very little profit, chemical companies and contractors are making the big bucks spraying chemicals further unbalancing the environment. The media can use the Fear of West Nile as an instrument to command attention and sell advertising. This is more profitable than imparting the awareness to boost the immune system and eliminate the threat that helps them to sell advertising and profit.

Diseases are not caused by drug deficiencies but rather our processing and altering of food, tampering with the environment using chemistry resulting in the production of toxins which disrupt natural systems and chemical processes creating imbalance.

Failure to facilitate natural processes such as fertilization in a manner that is harmonious nature and complete and “whole”. eating mineral deficient produce, transfers the deficiency to the that which consumes it.

Disease also results from unnatural situations and environmental factors. Unnatural stresses such as paying taxes, or all property “land” being owned and regulated prohibiting access to natural resources for food gathering, growing and capture unless one participates in an unnatural system designed by man. This means one must play the game in order to survive, and can no longer survive naturally.

Anyway you get the big picture.

If you had been sitting in a void for eternity and something "else" came along, a chance encounter by default. You would LOVE "it" in a way that cannot be fully imagined.

boy o boy ! a certain granny is trying bery hard to sound like a smartassno ...damn!

a weird dude thrives on flattery! shys away when the smart-asses are on...damn!

Does the genius listen to tunes? I'll flatter him...

Hey Richard! Did I miss you last weekend? If so, I'll fix it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IlHgbOWj4o

ww.dummaass22.cop

Deepak wishes we would spend all day debating whether or not he is D.C. or A.C.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAg5kTLeMh4

Flattery or mockery, all the same to a weird guy, ahem!

the squid returns as well from Atlanta.
The Gandhi room at the Martin Luther King Center remains to underscore the impact of Gandhi on the thinking of the Rev. Dr. There is also now a room memorializing Rosa Parks, and the remains of Coretta Scott King now rest beside her husband in the reflections pool. This is new for me but probably not "current".
Another exhibit at this National Park site informs as to the pogram of 1906, giving context to the childhood experiences of Dr. King, as they affected the black community of Atlanta. I draw from it as well a context for the Camp Logan (now Memorial Park) events that occurred in Houston about this same time.
Of necessity, we must pursue a separate non-violent movement for our civil rights.
It has been an emotional experience.
My apologies for wandering off-topic.
May we all discover within ourselves that which we are able to believe.

Hello Ruth
Deepak's answers just did not seem to answer the questions any better than anything else.
So I figure they are either over my head or just more of same mysticobabble that doesn't resonate with me. Which by no means makes them wrong.

I am quite comfortable with my simple belief that there is no one answer to these questions. It is all a matter of personal belief preference.

And Yo Richard
I am one for getting on that rollercoaster throwing my hands up and ridin'. And I say to the fear if this is how I die then so be it, I"m gonna ride with ecstatic joy til then.
And if I survive me and ET are gettin' a burrito.

peace comes from embracing the mystery of death

derek

Hi Ruth,
"and this makes sense to me, since, we are, at our most naked when stripped of our "story/identity" the most naked, pure consciousness, our link with god is without dispute, an impossibility of being separate from this experience of god itself."

Soo true :)

Hi Derek,
"am quite comfortable with my simple belief that there is no one answer to these questions. It is all a matter of personal belief preference."

Soo true :)

Hi Squid,
"May we all discover within ourselves that which we are able to believe"

Soo true :)

Hi Richard,
"The only thing in the universe that actually happens is what you witness everything else is simply a background calculation"

Soo true :)

The infinite player, the Homo Ludens

Hi all:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwEMxYggoKQ

Mieke

Deepak says:
“Because lesser scientists, including all the recent popular skeptics, make the mistake of believing that humans can stand outside nature and look into its workings like children pressing their noses against a bakery shop window.”

Here are the names of some of the lesser scientists, including some of the recent popular skeptics: Daniel Dennett, Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Julia Sweeney, Richard Dawkins.

These guys all have one thing in common with Albert Einstein, they believe god manifests herself through what really exists, free from any ties to the supernatural. They do not pretend to know life after death; they are after the truth through science and evidence.

Many of the lesser scientist, and maybe even some of the “less lesser”, or good old Albert himself, would gladly press their noses against the bakery shop window to find out about remote viewing, levitating, bending spoons with one’s mind and materializing things out of thin air”?

Can anybody honestly and sincerely claim to be able to do these things? Isn’t it time we have an honest discussion about what is possible in the real world and what is not?

The real world, the one every scientist is in awe of, part of and is investigating?

yo...the big dude says this to doodooman...

"What was before the Big Bang?
A field of pure potentiality that transcends space and time." damn.... wow!

Hello Skep,

Remote viewing? You do not think remote viewing is possible? Well, let me tell you bro! It is.

I worked with an individual who could remote view. They paid a visit to my home and described it to a tee, described what I was doing at the time, what I was wearing..(they had never been inside my home and this particular person didn't know anyone in my circle who had access to the information) the fact that they did this took me totally by suprise, never had heard of anyone really doing anything of the kind and was very perplexed as to this person's motivation..and after telling me, this person, really wouldn't talk anymore about it, it wasn't something they did all the time, they claimed, and since I really didn't want to encourage something like this I let it go, but not without telling them I thought it was an invasion of someone's privacy. ...REally flipped me out. I was amazed, astounded, and this was quite a few years before I had ever heard the term "remote viewing"..I think at the time they used the term lucid dreaming but being able to put your conscious awareness in another location from your body is pretty FAR OUT to put it lightly, but really, not at all "super-natural." If you believe you begin and end within the boundries of your body then I can understand you would not believe it is a possibility, but you do know that there are folks who are able to remote view and that there were programs in our government that practiced it, right?

I do not really know that much about it but have read a little and it makes perfect sense, to me, that one could develope the more subtle aspect of one's consciousness....I mean, god, in this day and age to not believe in something like remote viewing is like not believing in radar.

I think there are a number of books out on remote viewing...

have a great evening, ruth

Keith, that song just doesn't do it anymore for my reticular activating system.

Diablo, you know why Santa is so jolly? He knows where all the bad girls live.

Edmund, when something seems weird to us, in professional circles, it is referred to as Cognitive Dissonance.

Cognitive Dissonance which is a psychological term describing the uncomfortable tension that may result from having two conflicting thoughts at the same time, or from engaging in behavior that conflicts with one's beliefs, experiencing apparently conflicting phenomena, or when encountering truths that threaten our fictions.

Derek,

Instead of an arms race we could be having a roller coaster race. Which country can build the biggest baddest longest tallest roller coaster? Think tourist dollars.

Is should be know that in the new system of things, travel and hospitality will be the dominate industries on the planet. Knowing this I hope to garner support for the (R)evolution from the travel and hospitality industry executives.

Extraterrestrials with the exception of pioneers and adventurers tend to avoid fear based behavior, the same way you also avoid dangerous animals. When humanity reaches a point where fear is eradicated with wisdom and love, earth will become a galactic haven for interplanetary tourism.

I have been working on some marketing materials and I think we are going to go with

"The Blue Green Gem of the Universe".

Yo Richard
I would much rather resolve our worlds problems with rollercoasters than war any day. I would be the test rider for any country who would switch thier resorces from building weapons to rollercoasters. Imagine if they spent as much on a rollercoaster as on a aircraft carrier. YO!

derek of adrenaline

PS. Hey ET I would also be your test human for peaceful first
contact.

You have already been contacted Derek.

I read once somewhere that the largest organism in the world was a fungus, or more rightly, a mycelium - the underground part of a mushroom. And between my own personal "spiritual quest" and the books on quantum physics I'm trying to make heads and/or tails of - it occurred to me suddenly that really what I am, is a mushroom.

I'm the fruiting body of a mycelium that's planted in divine universe. All the amazing stuff is happening below the surface without me even being aware of most of it - I'm being nourished unawares, and up until recently it never even occurred to me to open myself up to more of that divine soil, as it were. A mycelium is spirit - it doesn't need to put up mushrooms. Our consciousness/soul awareness in the divine cosmos doesn't require a body. But you know? Sometimes it does. Or maybe it just wants to? That I can't answer. Yet here I am. And just maybe we're all the fruit of the same mycelium, I don't know. But ultimately is not the mycelium just another part of the soil? And so we're all divine, divinely connected. Cosmic tuffles, my friends!

Chuckle if you will but I like earthy metaphors:) Now, someone tell me - is this a good metaphor or is my budding analysis of existence woefully inaccurate? Maybe it's all wrong because mycelium would imply a sort of "middle man self" between our waking selves & the divine. Do you think we're more like trees, with our roots directly tapped into the divine soil? Or are we like something else entirely?

"What happens after we die?
Consciousness continues to evolve and simultaneously co-arise as observer and observed. You are not a person, but the consciousness that projects itself as both the person and its objects of perception." - providing my metaphor was "accurate" would that that be our mycelium, just continuing to thrive in the soil, yet putting forth no more fruit?