Hello Salman and Everyone,

Salman, your post should be printed on Tee shirts and distributed throughout the MidEAst, Southeast Asia, Afganistan and Pakistan, actually, everywhere, for free.

have a great day, ruth

Aloha Salman

I used to have a bumper sticker Peace through Music. I think it is a given. I feel Deepak Chopra is a great peace warrior when he shares birth and death are a continuum. We are all learning to die consciously, on a moment to moment basis. Is that not sucide? Don't buy the maya. Keep raising us with your music. love patty

Salman,

I agree and believe that especially Muslims must remind other Muslims that violence is not the way that Islam shows us to solving our problems. I dont understand how our religion has gotten to the state it is today- Islam seems to have a greater inclination towards violence than other religions. I am also aware that it is not as easy as this statement. Perhaps the main causes of increased violence among Muslims is due to many other possible factors such as culture, government or economic capacity.

It is very unfortunate that Islam is reflected in incorrect ways and it is further unfortunate that it is Muslims who are if not mostly, partly responsible for this.

Thank you for explaining the Greater inner Jihad. I believe that if everyone concentrated more on this inner jihad, the world would be a much more peaceful place.

Salman:

This is a good post - but dont you think its a little cliche?

I think the world is sick and tired of such cliches on one side and killing with Prophet's name on one's lips on the other!! Instead of telling the world how Jihad is "peaceful".. dont you think it is time for Muslims like YOU to investigate why JIhad that IS violent is more in currency?

These cliched attempts to show the "peaceful" side of Islam are too weak and dont help the non-muslims understand why they should even begin to believe what you are saying...

for:

1. Despite your beliefs and convictions you have not been able to convince the conservatives as yet on just music.

2. Your voice has little impact on those who actually put the explosive belts on to kill others!

And so to a non-believer who may be the next target anyday.. it is little consolation that ONE person has "A" interpretation of Islamic thought!

I would there fore like to turn the question on its head - not to embarrass or harrass you, Salman (I admire your courage)..... but to instill ruthless honesty of purpose and direction of a dialog that I am sure has been initiated by you bonafides!

- Why should (and how does) YOUR interpretation MATTER?

- What are you willing to do to take YOUR interpretation - not to the heartland of US/West etc - BUT to the Heartlands of Islam and be ready to pay for it?

Otherwise it does not matter and I fill that the world shouldn't care about the "higher" jihad stuff.. for, what ACTUALLY takes lead is the "Lower level" Jihad.... actually in a lot of places its not even fight against tyranny... like in Iraq!

for, those who say that the US is killing Muslims in Iraq are idiots - these days.... Sunnis and Shias are killing each other! USof A is simply orchestrating it! Too bad!

So, UNTIL someone can take the War of Thought and Reason to Iraq - they dont need US to kill.. they are doing it anyways!!

Desh
Drishtikone.com

Oye, Desh! Is emotion getting in the way of deeper thinking on this? That's uncharacteristic...

What if:

The vast majority of those who observe the faith of Islam decided to openly and loudly support the correct reading of the Koran, and redefine the public sense of the word "jihad", thus taking away its power to incite violence and insinuate fear and weakness? And suppose the younger members (the future older, powerful members) of the faith did that through popular culture, which is a tasty bit of honey useful for helping people swallow difficult things, as well as creating a sense of community and mutual support in the face of overbearing bullies...

...this is what is starting to happen. I was terribly heartened by Salman's post.

If this is cliche, let it reign. Support it, feed it, it solves a future problem. Today's problems go by in a minute. The **only** thing that can prevent Islamist terrorism in the future is the quiet middle-grounders developing their voice and power. It is being done in the US at last, and hopefully around the world in other contexts, too. The web is invaluable to this dynamic. Now if we can only all be a little less greedy, and think and plan for the long-term...

love, and all due respect, Heath

The point is let people come out of Islam. It is not only the case with Islam but also with all religions which have a limitation of reason, hence would fail to address the present future issues facing US.
The fundamental problem with Islam is it's rootedness, while what is needed is to secularize all those young minds by giving them space to grow without conflicts of the kind that we are witnessing today. But it has to be done without motives where in, the one who is trying to bring change in humanity should do so with a secular and unselfish purpose beyond the involvement of politics.
But a time like ours which is largely influenced by indifference and mistrust of each other and as individuals who constantly thriving to fulfill their private goals, it is going to be such a tough tasks, where even a minor difference can be exploited leading to untold destruction.
Such is the nature of human, who is capable of extra ordinary destruction besides being self destructive.

The point is let people come out of Islam. It is not only the case with Islam but also with all religions which have a limitation of reason, hence would fail to address the present future issues facing US.
The fundamental problem with Islam is it's rootedness, while what is needed is to secularize all those young minds by giving them space to grow without conflicts of the kind that we are witnessing today. But it has to be done without motives where in, the one who is trying to bring change in humanity should do so with a secular and unselfish purpose beyond the involvement of politics.
But a time like ours which is largely influenced by indifference and mistrust of each other and as individuals who constantly thriving to fulfill their private goals, it is going to be such a tough tasks, where even a minor difference can be exploited leading to untold destruction.
Such is the nature of human, who is capable of extra ordinary destruction besides being self destructive.

Well said, most truly, indrakaran.

Nothing grows without first planting a seed. Whether it is a thought, a plant or whatever.

Salman, thank you for planting your seeds of peace. Let's all nurture it and watch it grow.

Love and peace
bonnie

hey heather.. well the emotion is not entirely taking its toll as yet :-) The thing is the reason why I have come to admire the Vedic rishis is because they were Ruthless in their honesty and questioning. I can say it very easily that this trait went down exponentially over the years .. so we had several sects and religions.. which as indrakaran says well have created a mess!

And when you question, if you are so conscious of tripping on a PC roadmine then you can never be truthful!

See, heather.. extraordinary times require extraordinary solutions and character! We can no longer go with the standard stuff and hope to change the world!

There is a very nice song from Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan Saheb - titled "Tum ek Gorakh Dhandha ho"... I think THAT is the spirit we need in asking the questions... not where your every question is more of a way for you to get social acceptability as opposed to honest probing!

If the world of Islam has to ridden of its violent side... it needs dozens of Sufis - honest and clear-thinking - to come and start transforming the society. Otherwise I have very little hope in this spread of fire.

Now, I am not a doomsday guy.. I just think it is better to face the future and truth as it is instead of holding vigils and prayers and trying to change the world! That is not my way. If the change is NOT brought about by SELF EFFORT of every protagonist.. it is not an ever lasting one. We are just trying to get some extra points in our Karma register... nothing more.

Cheers,
Desh
Drishtikone.com

I have steered away from commenting on the conversation of Islam and Muslim's for sometime now as I notice it ignites emotion, sometimes distasteful to my Self, on this site.

I have been thinking of posting this comment for many months and so here goes.

I work with these Muslim guys here in Switzerland. They are some of the sweetest, peace loving guys I have ever met.

They work hard and provide with love for their families.

One of them and I speak often about religion, politics and social issues.

He says that for him Buddhism is a great religion.

He doesn't much like Arabs and thinks them primitive.

He says the suicide bombings, beheadings and other atrocities at the hands of those that claim they are committed in the name of Allah are acts of cowardice not representing Islam.

He loves everything American.

Once when talking about giving money to people in need I mentioned that I don't give money to drug addicts. He replied that one can not make a judgment on people one does not know. One has no idea what brought them to where they are. And perhaps it is an angel in disguise. I told him I give food.

Anyway the thing I'm trying to get across is that from my direct experience of the Muslims that I know I cannot get behind the anger toward Islam and Muslims as a group.

I was brought up as a dark skinned mixed breed in the heart of white America and I know how brutal and frightening it is to be on the receiving end of hatred because you belong to a defined - categorized - labeled group.

I was taught at an early age to fear and hate anything Arab or Muslim and it wasn't my parents who taught me that. It was the same society that looked at me with fear and mistrust just because of my color.

It took me coming to Switzerland to see for myself that fear of Muslim was just another well sold illusion which I must take full responsibility for buying.

I am grateful that I had an opportunity to discover the illusion and correct my vision. And if it can happen to me it can happen to everyone.

Peace at least

Lambent-minded Desh

Listen, you're well aware that for things to crystallize or gel, you need two elements: a saturated solution, and a seed crystal or some form of turbulence or energy, to begin the cascade of structural changes. So it goes in society, too.

Your anger is still shining out.

If I walk out today and I'm killed by a terrorist because NYC's forces aren't doing a good job, that's the loss of one life. Or if my neighborhood were hit by a dirty bomb, maybe 7,000 lives would be affected, with short and long term consequences. Compared with the floods in India and China at the moment, that's peanuts, though it would be massively regrettable to all those directly involved, as well as to those whose fear levels were raised as a result.

History is changed by nonlinear accumulations of forces. Individual and collective intentions are part of it. Action is another (that's your realm -- motive to action). Natural shifts in gestalt are a third. The entire fractal of the universe evolves, and we evolve with it.

You have a policeman's mentality about this. I don't criticize you for that. You are as necessary to the solution as Salman is. I worry about your BP, though.

I'm relaxed about it because I'm not directly threatened - though I will say that I live in NYC near one its most important bridges, so there is possibly reason to predict the danger to me is greater than it is to you. But you are in more easily-perceived danger. I understand why you feel and think as you do.

Rereading this before clicking on post, it comes across to me as shallow and somewhat arrogant. But I'm not, only too pressured to mold my words to represent my thought more truly. Please forgive the faulty translation, mind to comment.

love, Heath

LPB, great post! Heart-opening!

love, Heath

Salman, you have articulated the reframing that is needed the spirit perspective not the current ego perspective of JIHAD.

I can totally relate.

We all share the same battle. You have actually pointed out a common ground, a shared enemy that we can find unity in confronting.

I am and I think you will find many in the US and elsewhere are 100% behind eliminating the influence of ego in our systems.

In Infinite Play the Movie it says

"Every One was born into a world of fiction"

I think religion has come to be used to serve the purposes of the ego.

Terrorism comes from ego not spirit.

If the would be terrorists could be taught to be successful activists using truth, communication and presence they would be so much more effective eliminate the world of it’s disparity and suffering.

The spirit is speaking the same thing at the core in all the religions.

* Do not be attached to outcome.

* Do not have attachments.

* Focus on the divine concept periodically.

* See everything and everyone as all One Body (Love)

See there is no difference, when we remove the ego dogma.

All the conflict and violence is coming from ego.

I don’t know any common person on the planet that isn’t against tyranny and oppression except those that have a vested interest and are benefiting from the current system of things.

Here in this thread is the non-violent solution to the conflict. Who will bring it to light and speak it?

It destroys the now popular fictions that are embraced by the ignorant.

Dear Indrakaran,
(post # 7)
"... what is needed is to secularize all those young minds by giving them space to grow without conflicts of the kind that we are witnessing today.

But it has to be done without motives where in, the one who is trying to bring change in humanity should do so with a secular and unselfish purpose beyond the involvement of politics."

Indeed - if only this were possible!

The ropes of entanglement of religion & politics - in cultures all around the world, are very strong.

Desh,
I think you strike at the crux of the image of Jihad, which for many now - equates to violence and hatred.

Hi LPB,
Experience is the teacher, and awareness becomes the tool for breaking away from the past conditioning of our forming years, and I for one, have also felt discrmination, and non-acceptance, and also participated in some of that myself, until...
the golden moment
(years in the making :)
when the hurt of it all
just had to be let go.

I agree with Heather, your heart is open in this sharing, and I have always loved your willingness to go to the depths, and come back here with such honesty.

with love,
~ Kate

and dear Heather,
"The web is invaluable to this dynamic ..."
...
energy which is shaping and changing the amazing ways of communication.

love,
~ Kate

My dear Heath - Hard questioning is not anger :-) I have no hatred or anger in this case at all. All I am trying to put forth is a reasonably honest dialog and a means for that.

There is a lovely Indian movie - titled "AKS". if you get one copy with English sub-titles.. please do watch it! It illustrates (as well as it can possibly be done in a cinematic medium) that Evil and Good are person-centered. These are INHERENT characteristics of the creation's PRIMORDIAL substance. "Evil" and "Good" are OUR judgments in any case. Vivekananda also said it VERY clearly - that those Christian missionaries who keep harping on doing good for the world (and in this particular case under the garb of "White Man's burden" I may add), are talking up the wrong tree! For NO ONE can do any good! You are taking too much of credit!

This world and creation is sustained by Duality. Equality will result in its dissolution. So, you may THINK you want the Duality to reduce but that is ignorance. In a Duality-sustained world..... Duality.. is well.. a PRIMARY condition :-)

So, even though I can understand the anger of the moderate Muslims (only those whose anger DOES NOT stem from their religious interpretation as opposed to simply evaluation of current events) because of the current events in the world.. and why some of them can actually take to violence. In many cases, such violence may actually be their duty as well.. just as the duty of the soldier of the US Army is to kill the guy on the street who holds a gun at him for having forcibly entered into his country! So, there is nothing wrong that the Iraqi with a gun on the street does by holding up the gun AND ditto for the American who shoots back.... they are merely doing a duty. Is it "Good" or "Bad" is immaterial. That is what their situational contexts tells them to be "correct"!

The problem occurs when the situational contexts - dictated by religious or social norms - dictates a person to constantly hate or discriminate .. purely because he is a "non-believer".

ANYONE who tells me that a philosophy has gone to SUCH extent to distinguish between Believers and non-believers .... only because they dont want to hate to put the non-believers to harm is a HYPOCRITE and a dishonest person! There is NO reason to segregate between Me and You if I dont hold that I am in any way BETTER than you. THAT is the genesis of harm to YOU right there.

So, I have always held that religious Gurus and Prophets who segregate upfront or unconsciously were vicious!

I am sorry but there is no other way of saying this.

Gurus and Prophets are NOT important in spirituality, heath.. MESSAGE is!! And the attempt should be to UNDERSTAND and crystallize the message.. Gurus/Prophets be damned! Vivekananda said it very rightly again when he said that Krishna was NOT important.. his message was. For all you know Dump Krishna.. but the message remains strong if it makes sense! Honestly.

Cheers,
Desh
Drishtikone.com

hey Desh,
a synchcronized moment
2:29

:)
~ Kate

"lease do watch it! It illustrates (as well as it can possibly be done in a cinematic medium) that Evil and Good are person-centered."

This should have been - Evil and Good are NOT person-centered.

Yup Kate.. as always - the system saved my chivalry by letting the lady in first! :-)

Salmom: You're posts have been passionately inspirational of late.

In a dualistic universe, cliches are the norm.

From what I have read of the Koran, I believe your religion to be monotheistic. Neither Christians nor Jews
should be offended by anything in your 'Book'. Your scriptures are comparable. I am pleased to see and know
that there are bloggers of your faith in the mix.

Carl Jung also said something to the same affect, "If man would pay
as much attention to the war going on inside of his psyche
as he did worrying about warring with others in the world,
he wouldn't have time to fight anyone else."(not a quote)

.

Desh,

You are on fire, my man. And I have totally mis-understood you
from the first time I read your posts. I thought
you backed a non-dualistic philosophy. My bad, probably.

Personally, I believe Americans also need to be educated
on the differences between what the Quran says and what
some, who call themselves 'religious', believe, say and do.

About Iraq...sticky, sticky...we may just detach.
Pull back. Become spectators and choose, willy-nilly,
who we would like and need to protect, while the
civil war, genocide, and ethnic cleansing take place on live t.v.
And just think...we'll be sitting in air-conditioning,
having a soda and watching the news from somewhat 'afar'.
I like the fight being 'over there', compared to the 'other' option.

There's my neck, practically pleading to feel the axe!
Peace anyway! Keith

Keith:

You are right.. I do not think Duality is "real" state. .. however, until "I am" .. Duality is there. Anyways.. what I wanted to say was that there are two states - Duality and Equality. In Duality, completely finishing off either Good or Evil in nonsense. If you do finish off any of these.. then it is Equality.. and no creation that we know off.

So, you may lose your Duality and be in the Equality zone.. but there is no distinction between good or bad. And that is the main point that I wanted to make.

As far as Iraq is concerned - what is happening is indeed very sad... and unpardonable.. but look at the situation with utmost honesty and you will find that it is a reflection .. and a VERY STARK one at that of the MADNESS of the Abrahamic religions of last 2000 years. Christians vs Muslims.. Sunnis vs Shias.. One grp of Sunnis vs other group of Sunnis!!

Keith.. someone will HAVE to pay for this from time to time.. until this very core is looked into. No one wants to talk about that because you tread on PC land-mines.. so lets save ourselves from those landmines and jump right off the cliff!

Iraq is not the first time.. and if we keep doing what we have been doing.. it wont be the last... for the kids and women have to die for our silence and political correctness. Our imaginary hurts from stern and honest dialog is MUCH more than the lives of those kids.. so we all will assure their destruction! Should we???

Cheers,
Desh
Drishtikone.com

Yes, it takes persistence to do music, as any business. 90% of all new businesses don't make the three year anniversary and the same goes for bands.

So besides just getting it out there, getting it out there with a message adds another layer to it.

There are those that will attack you for telling the truth. These are usually one of two different types of people - 1. are deluded, and are in a state of sleepwalking. When you wake up a sleeping person, very commonly the first response is resistance to being awakened, and 2. people who know the truth and have joined with the exploiters to take advantage of the sleepwalkers.

The first category is annoying. The second category is dangerous.

In the beginning, you meet people who hear and like the message. They want good dreams. Fine. Then there are those who realize you are awake too and do what they can either parallel or along with you to help wake up more and more people.

When you have a lot of people who want to wake up, the exploiters swing in to action. Trying to silence you is the first technique. They won't print your articles, publish you, etc. You have been labeled as politically incorrect. You are blacklisted. This is why certain news stories never get published, for example. What Rupert Murdoch DOESN'T publish is the first level of political control. It usually includes anything that will be seen to upset business as usual, or politics as usual.

If that doesn't work, then character assassination comes next. You will be accused of all kinds of things you didn't do, just because someone wants bad press on you. You will be spending lots of time and money trying to disprove a negative, which is a very hard thing to do, and they know it. Prove you are not a child molester. Prove you are not immoral. Stop lying about beating your wife, etc...you get the picture.

If you are still really a big problem to the status quo even after all that, covert action is the next step. This includes spying on you, creating false documentation against you, destroying important records from your past. After that comes disguised threats against you or your loved ones. They are disguised, but you'll get the message just the same. The ultimate covert action is assassination, and it is the final solution the status quo has for a rebel who succeeds in awakening a lot of people to the fact they are being exploited. To someone who causes a real ruckus, like a Jesus.

So yeah, it's tough, but its worth it.

It's not as tough as my brothers who go get their legs blown off, or suffer brain damage from their heads being jarred by IEDs. It's not as tough as four consecutive combat tours in Iraq. It's not as tough as being a new mom who has just lost your husband to an insane, insane, INSANE war.

If you're a musician, however, it's what you can do with the skill you have. And that's what counts.

A Muslim guy engineered my first record. He did a fantastic job. The same guy got my music in a film featuring the Dalai Lama and a worldwide conference held at Dharamsala to address the world's suffering. Some of the other IB contributors are in that movie too.

Everyone has to do what they can to live a positive life.

The first thing is to realize you are being lied to. The priests and the politicians are lying through their teeth to exploit you in a hundred different ways. Sorry I don't know any nice way to say that.

The revolution starts when you stand up and say "I'm not buying the crap any longer!"

That's when the revolution starts.

That's the same moment you become a threat to the crap merchants.

Have a nice day.

Great post, simple but strong words.

Hey Desh!

I just may have to go backwards here.

Might a Sufi say, "Shoulda, woulda, coulda dunna
that, but I can't? It's against my religion."

I kinda doubt it. Rumi seems to have shunned rationalizations.

I think we all need to lose our religion(reminding me of a song by R.E.M.)--
in order--to find and retain our faith in the
wisdom that comes from human nature.

And I would agree that that's wisdom with a small 'w'.
If we can all find some rule to which we can agree,
I would be willing to pin a medal on it.

Peace bro! Big Dubya

Well...this thread may be toast,
but here's an example of what I meant.

.

When school and mosque and minaret
get torn down, then dervishes
can begin their community.

Not until faithfulness
turns to betrayal
and betrayal into trust
can any human being
become part of the truth.

.

Betrayal Into Trust
(translated by Coleman Barks)

Islam propogates violence-and that is true. No amount of preaching or brainwashing from the likes of you Salman is going to change that.

Look at the way Islam treats its women-its inhuman to say the least. Cattle have more rights in other parts of the non muslim world

What makes the men in Islam feel so inferior and insecure that they have to kill and destroy everybody else who does not go along with their thinking? What exactly are they so afraid of?

that is something i hope you will reflect upon in your next post

Islam propogates intolerance
that itself is a subtle but extreme form of violence

A salaam alakium brother.

That is a very moving and inspirational piece of text. Not just for Muslim people who may be in a state of either misguidance or in a state of opression but for people of all faiths who are also misguided and opressed. Opressed sometimes by their own gremlins.

Religion is something that has given you a great deal of insight into God. I have many Islamic friends who are also deeply spiritual and deeply wise. Religion is in it self a conditioning just as life is a conditioning of the mind. You say that Islam has shielded you from the demons of lifestyle related to musicians. In reality Islam is a model for a particular way to live. It is a set of conditions that you choose to put upon yourself. This is the same of course for all religions.

True understanding of God only will come when you come to the point where you understand that there are no demons, there is just the conditioned self that invents these demons. When you realise that "God is not another"

sometimes people ask me, If I am religious and my answer to that is No not at all. I do not follow any religions even though I have studied a few of them including Islam.

Then the next question they will ask me "Do you believe in God?"

My answer to that question is always "There is nothing but God" Religion is not God, Religion is just a set of conditions. God is not exclusive to any religion remember that.... god is only exclusive to you not to Islam or to Christianity, Judaism or any other type or form of religion you decide to believe in or create.

A salaam alakium

Hello Salman and Everyone,

Hello Adnan, you write, "" See the real world after death ,
till then live the world on your faith."

To me, I think the purpose of one's spirit/soul taking on and manifesting in a physical body/mind is for the spirit/soul through it's body/mind to be able to remember, recognize, experience the "real world while alive- in that physical body/mind- because it is not guaranteed that if one does not remember, recognize, experience while in the manifested form of the body/mind you most likely will not remember, recognize, experience the "real world" after shedding this body/mind.

If one does not experience their "real SELF" or recognize their "true Face" while alive, through the vehicle of their body/mind there is a good possbility of that not happening after death.

Death is but a step on the journey of the spirit/soul not necessarily the end of one's spirit/soul's journey.

So, therefore, I think a would say...see the "real world" while alive and have faith your death will affirm that seeing and experience.

have a wonderfull day, ruth

I say live whatever you know right now, because noone has any proof of anything past the present. To live within a belief system in hope that that belief system will make life after death better is to me usless. To live within a belief system that brings a better life in the present is useful to me.

Salmn
You say the Koran says "man was created weak" I have to respectfully disagree. For me man was not created by a god but evolved and we are strong. Religion in my opinion creates the weakness. It takes strong beautiful children and ways them down with unnecessary burdens. Not just religion but so many "belief" systems do this as well. Then we spend our adulthood serching for the truth to get us back to where children already are before the belief systems and religions corrupted them.

Forgive me Salman I spelled your name wrong. I realize you find comfort in your religion and it has given you the strength to overcome some of the pitfalls of your buisness, but I overcome temptations without religion. To me it is not the religion but the strength that IS inside you that overcomes. Some peolple who are religious do not overcome these temptations. Some people who are religious strap bombs to themselves.

Salman
I have listened to your music and it creates compasion and joy in my heart. This is a truth and energy that transends all belief and belief systems, This is a strengeth from inside you that you have the courage to share. Nothing more is needed. I don't even understand the words but I feel the intent. It brings tears to my soul.

All the back and forth crap that goes on gets us nowhere, It is just aurguing beliefs. Worthless.
Music , a painting, peotry the arts have power beyond belief systems. When I am painting I go into a deep meditative state, just like that experienced by spiritual seekers. Yet it is not for spirituality but just a byproduct of intense consentration and focus in the present. This energy goes into the painting and people feel it when they see the painting.
It is the same with your music. I feel your compassion and hope and joy and love come through though I don't know what you are saying. It is not the words but the intent of the heart.

peace comes from peace

derek

#35 should read....tears of JOY to my soul.

Thank Salman for you music.

derek

Derek, yes the "End of Beliefs", is the ultimate in State of the ART advanced living and being.

I don't think everyone is ready for that yet.

This is why people are cautioned not to read the forbidden text, until they have become fearless with love.

The power bestowed is so great that if you have fear you will destroy you self. If however you have love you can create miracles. Remember fear and love cannot occupy your mind at the same time.

The forbidden text is of course found in the lethal text series.

[Click my name]

Richard
I'm not sure I follow you. Did I say something about the end of beliefs? Maybe I did and didn't realize it. This kinda stuff happens to me a lot.

I'm going to check out the leathal text thing. Hopefully I will not destroy me.

Yo

derek

Hi Salman, You echo the true values of Islam. I am sure you know what your purpose is. God bless you and happy journey.

Love,

Sameer

Derek,

It depends what you define as "me". Fictional self or true self.

Richard
There is just me.
With all due and much respect for you and your belief system, I don't prescribe to the fictional thing or that everything is an illusion.
To me this is more smoke and mirrors.
Just like religions. Instead of dealing with people and thier issues so many "enlightened" people or masters will give answers that seem to be like clouds with no ground to walk on.
I live on a planet made of rock not clouds. If this is an illusion then why can't we change the physical world?
So far noone has done so.
Ghandi, Buhdda, Jesus, insert any great masters name you wish, have not changed our physical world into one that is peaceful and harmonious.
No philosopher so far has anwered any of our base questions.
No scientist has proven anything other than what is observable in the physical world.
No belief system has brought relief to our violent nature.

I can find peace in myself as an individual, but who can bring peace to the world? For all the effort so far noone or no belief system has done so.
Even here the discussions go round and round but satisfy nothing. I have been coming to this site for nearly a year and I have read nothing that answers our base questions any better than a good childrens book.

Don't get me wrong I find much joy in interacting with the people here and I have learned much about myself.
But no questions have been answered because to me there are no questions to answer and no answers to these questions. In my opinion we are here, we interact and whatever comes next after death is a complete mystery.
I really enjoy your energy and interacting with you but I am not a fiction, I am just me.

peace and love to you Richard

derek

Ricahard
I hope you understand that this is just my "belief" system and I could be completely wrong.
I due respect yours and Salman's and everyone elses. I find great beauty in religions.

derek

Hey Derek:

No Master ever said that walking on water was easy.

Nor have they ever said that squeezing through the
eye of a needle was a breeze.

We must walk the walk and not just talk the talk, that's what this is all about, and Ed says two legs is too many.

Let go of Devo. Everything is perfectly in order.

Good luck hopping down any straight and narrow road! Keith

Hello and a grand Yo Keith
To me all paths are wide with plenty of room for hopping skipping jumping and aimless wandering.

Devo was a great band. I'm not letting them go.
Devolution is just a another theory or perspective or something.

I'll be hopin' along singin' my song, slightly off key.

peace from the rabbit, yo being born in 1963 makes me a rabbit in the Chinese zodiac. I learned this from many a Chinese dinners.

derek

Interesting. Of course music has always been used to get messages, (whether they are political, emotional etc) across in some form or another. Music is tribal and has the ability to bring people together and stir strong emotions in them. Recently, there has been a resurgence of using music to raise awareness on issues such as Climate Change, poverty etc. However, getting across religious beliefs, or a particular interpretation of a religious belief to those you want to influence is extremely difficult. albeit not impossible. There is an article in today’s Guardian about a rave transmitted on the internet, that took place in Iran, and how the 'moral' police has clamped down on the very people who are trying to express themselves in a repressive environment, and that 'the US is trying to topple the Islamic regime through a "soft revolution":-

Iranian morals police arrest 230 in raid on 'satanist' rave

Robert Tait in Tehran
Monday August 6, 2007
The Guardian

Iran's drive to enforce Islamic morals netted revellers from Britain and Sweden after police swooped on a "satanic" concert organised over the internet.

Police arrested 230 people and seized drugs, alcohol and 800 illicit CDs after raiding the event in Karaj, 12 miles west of Tehran. Those arrested included young women in skimpy and "inappropriate" clothing, officers said.

Reza Zarei, Tehran's provincial police chief, said the operation also resulted in the confiscation of 20 video cameras, with which organisers allegedly planned to shoot "obscene" films and then blackmail female participants.

The event included rock and rap performers as well as female singers, who are banned under Iran's Islamic laws. The authorities described the artistes as "satanist" without elaborating. Iran's rulers routinely label much of western-style popular music and culture as decadent.
Preparations were kept so secret that revellers were made aware of the venue only hours before the rave.

Although security guards were hired to act as lookouts and plans were made to clear the site of alcohol and drugs the police found 150 bottles of alcohol and drugs, including marijuana.

Most of the detainees came from rich families and included people from Iranian backgrounds who had travelled from Britain and Sweden, Mr Zarei said. "This is the first time that tens of male and female participants have been invited to such an event through an internet call," he told the semi-official ISNA news agency. Rock concerts are rarely permitted in Iran but are sometimes held illegally in venues such as underground car parks.

Last Wednesday's raid occurred during a government-backed "social security" campaign in which police have arrested or cautioned thousands of women whose dress or headscarves have been deemed insufficiently Islamic. While such offensives occur periodically, this year's has been carried out with unusual intensity over a prolonged period amid accusations that the US is trying to topple the Islamic regime through a "soft revolution".

Authorities last month doubled the number of officers deployed on morals patrols. Police have been instructed to arrest young men with "western" hairstyles. Those arrested are released only after giving the names of their barbers and making signed commitments to get hair-cuts. They then have to return to the police station to show their new hairstyles.

Sorry for the long-pot but in the context of the discussion. Music is a form of expression of course, however it is also seen as a form of coercion and manipulation by some.

Dear Kamini: Great reporting!

I used to have long hair, back when I had hair.
And when I was about 12, I bought this paperback
at a grocery store.(It should have been behind the counter)

"HAIR"!!! This rocked a young boy's world.
I had no idea...sex, drugs and rock~n~roll
squeezed there way into and between neurons
that were saturated in a fundamental Christian
solution of grape juice and teeny crackers.

Iran looks to be headed to the same place the U.S
occupied in the 60's. Counter-Revolution!
After the hip-hoppin' 50's of the Twist and Shake,
the 60's kids seemed to be happy just sitting around.
They must have been up to something 'no good'.

You may not remember an certain incident at Kent State,
but that was another 'wake-up call' for Americans
who would have just as soon gone on living like ostriches.

These are not 'the good old days' transposed into Iran.
The youth there face a much more certain danger.
To be a member of the counter-culture these days
means a greater withdrawal from the social scene
and a greater need for secrecy than ever before.

Iran is not a huge country, and there are not too many
pleasant places where kids can go and hide from The Man.

That's why I wish them all the best of luck.
I hope their 'modern' music carries the old message
just as it did here in the U.S. in the early days
of Rock`N`Roll.

What was that message?

"Don't bogart that joint!"

Peace and Love, Keith

Thanks for the plug, Keith. It was intended to be a play on one leg! How's that joint?

How Do you explain this.....?
Dear sir,
In an ongoing series of events nearing three years ,which includes torture, abuse, racial discrimination,Death threats and poisoning, spanning various States in USA,which has been very difficult to endure and very little help being extended or received so far, it would be easy for any one to loose faith in Humanity.
I have very little reason to doubt that the people involved, apart from Catholic and other christian denominations, A power full and vicious circle from US intelligence services like FBI and CIA are being involved in most of these activities, which include a 24/7 open jail system under which i am being kept,further involving hundreds of street , Homeless and social workers, police and Govt employs resulting in Death threats lock ups and detainment at various locations in NEW YORK, CA , UTAH,and now in WASHINGTON DC, would only dwarf the Guantanamo bay trails.
Often being called OSAMA BIN LADEN and TERRORIST and ARAB etc, by the people around which number in hundreds clouding the fact that my lineage for the past 1000 years would hardly would have any connection and i am hardly being a practitioner of religion except for being interested in Buddhism and having at least visited church regularly for two years ( Including the MORMON church)my arrival to US under suspicious and dramatic circumstances has only been in the year of 2004 and before that having never left India, would hardy suggest that i would have anything to with the events of 9/11.
but to my astonishment and subsequently to an on going torture that was unleashed up on me, the people who are involved, in the day to day operations of what i had described above and earlier are the high level intelligence community associated with FBI/CIA.As to in what way these high profile 9/11 investigators have found anything of interest in me in their wildest dreams is left to any ones imagination, but the involvement of these officials and my several meetings with them and the treatment i have been receiving on behalf and at the commands of these operative would potentially undermine my life. except for having knowledge of the events of 9/11 thorough newspapers and Internet i have no clue or idea nor i have been part of any conspiracy group nor i have known any one or associated with, which would been a situation with millions of Americans and many more across the world, but how is that i have been singled out by the officers like DON HINES, ( In various meetings conducted in DC ACLU office)who identifies him self as Executive director of ACLU, Washington DC( where as he is not) and previously during my arrival and captivity in CA by a Vietnam veteran who is/was working for intelligence dept. who had sought to inquire me for a whole night, during my journey from CA to NEW YORK, only mystifies as to what purpose they have sought me out.
Besides these people and many other threatening and telling me from time to time that my seeking help is of no use as even UN Human Rights would be of little help.
First of all I am not a Muslim as I have mentioned and I do not remotely prescribe to any form of violence or religion or religious aggression no matter who is the victim.
But the constant attempts to poison and assault me causing untold trauma and no human help being extended so far makes it very difficult for me to have any faith in humanity besides raising doubt as to why these Intelligence officials are after me, which is as the saying goes, "there is more to it than meets the eye". As i gather from my conversations with these operatives, who might be top intelligence operatives connected with 9/11 events and as a matter of fact all my requests for help have resulted more in in endangering my life and torture as I am being repeatedly told by Mr HINES that not even UN can help me ...?
As i have many times tried to leave US which resulted in futility and no help being extended by The Indian Embassy in DC and more over my treatment by various people ( social workers and staff of places where i was living) only suggests that i am actually a detainee under high and constant surveillance...?
I have by now forgotten to count how many times i have been poisoned in each of these cities, few times even being denied medical attention and many times ending up in emergency only to be told that they have found nothing like poison in their lab tests, explains how deep the problem is involving high and mighty.
As most of my belongings being stolen ( Two laptops and One 35 Camera kit , passport and all of my luggage, money)there is no way of proving my identity, Which all the more makes even common place situations look suspicious in my attempt to interact with others and most often the people who interact with me are agents and street operatives and informants in addition to Police, who fallow me in the streets on a regular basis.
It is most likely these officials/Operatives are picking some innocent people from all over the world and torture them and lure them using various means to involve in their not so legal activities.which only reminds me the involvement of a German team, a woman psychologist and another male who identified him self as a spy had offered to pay money for my needs and when i had declined their offer, he became threatening and people were seen knocking my cottage and circling during midnight, while i was at a Buddhist monastery last December.
( As the abbot informed me that these people actually came from Germany and I am under The Homeland security, in response to my request to be a volunteer for their ongoing activities)
So, is the case with WHITNEY GRETCHEN of Catholic charities in Washington DC,where i was kept for all most one year , who had also tried to woo me With some false offers and favors, was later on involved in sending homeless street gangs from black communities to beat me up more than once.
If it is true i believe there has also been an attempt to kidnap me and take or send me to PAKISTAN (while i was in NEW YORK) while inviting me to visit the Pakistani military ship, which was on a visit to NEW YORK is more than a coincidence. the manager and his staff of Pakistan origin, who asked me for three days, have later on tried to drug me and beat me up, some of his friend urging me that, i should become a MUSLIM and fight for Pakistan etc.
The series of past and ongoing events and my various attempts to seek help having come to nothing, I am on the verge of continued despondency and loss of faith in humanity.It would only make me wonder as to the nature of human integrity and American democracy,if a person like me were to be subjected to this kind of treatment, then it only raises questions like, is it the same with every American or the once like me me who have come to America. Is this is the day to day reality of a world's well known democracy, Is American is a country with no humanity which can come to the rescue of Innocent people and is it true that the events of 9/11 have to be looked at with suspicion,is it more so that no one in this country cares for truth or for humanity, are the kind of questions that not only bother me but it is for every one to examine.The need for finding out the reason for such atrocious activities, people like me are being subjected, who even in their wildest dreams are not even connected with 9/11, then how is it, such high profile intelligence officials/operatives have been chasing me for the last three years, while no one is willing to care or listen is something humanity needs to ponder for the safety of its future , which in turn will not only benefit the US and also the world. By which many of innocent people will be spared of the torture.
Each time i mention the people or the events they would dramatically disappear until other new people enter the scene.
It is most likely that by the time you would have read this mail ,I might have been picked up or some one in the streets (may be a black guy) would have stabbed me or a car / truck might run over me or I would be FOOD POISONED, like in the past as i have been count less times.Since my memory is waning after series of traumatic events it would be difficult to remember how many times( at this very moment after four days of Food poisoning i stomach feels like a cluster bomb has exploded) ,Or may be shot dead and killed by million known and unknown ways that FBI/CIA /CATHOLIC etc employs on people like me..
(though even to this day I remain failing to understand as to why do i deserve to be singled out and be treated like the way i am and who is most likely to gain by such mechanization's)
In the end it only leaves me with very little to say as I see very little humanity or hope around me.
Thanking you for your patience.

with warm regards,

Raja Indrakaran.
Washington DC.
P.S- I have been waiting, since the last three years to leave US with any success.....while today Us has more than 12 million Illigal imigrants who desire to stay in this country.

How Do you explain this.....?
Dear sir,
In an ongoing series of events nearing three years ,which includes torture, abuse, racial discrimination,Death threats and poisoning, spanning various States in USA,which has been very difficult to endure and very little help being extended or received so far, it would be easy for any one to loose faith in Humanity.
I have very little reason to doubt that the people involved, apart from Catholic and other christian denominations, A power full and vicious circle from US intelligence services like FBI and CIA are being involved in most of these activities, which include a 24/7 open jail system under which i am being kept,further involving hundreds of street , Homeless and social workers, police and Govt employs resulting in Death threats lock ups and detainment at various locations in NEW YORK, CA , UTAH,and now in WASHINGTON DC, would only dwarf the Guantanamo bay trails.
Often being called OSAMA BIN LADEN and TERRORIST and ARAB etc, by the people around which number in hundreds clouding the fact that my lineage for the past 1000 years would hardly would have any connection and i am hardly being a practitioner of religion except for being interested in Buddhism and having at least visited church regularly for two years ( Including the MORMON church)my arrival to US under suspicious and dramatic circumstances has only been in the year of 2004 and before that having never left India, would hardy suggest that i would have anything to with the events of 9/11.
but to my astonishment and subsequently to an on going torture that was unleashed up on me, the people who are involved, in the day to day operations of what i had described above and earlier are the high level intelligence community associated with FBI/CIA.As to in what way these high profile 9/11 investigators have found anything of interest in me in their wildest dreams is left to any ones imagination, but the involvement of these officials and my several meetings with them and the treatment i have been receiving on behalf and at the commands of these operative would potentially undermine my life. except for having knowledge of the events of 9/11 thorough newspapers and Internet i have no clue or idea nor i have been part of any conspiracy group nor i have known any one or associated with, which would been a situation with millions of Americans and many more across the world, but how is that i have been singled out by the officers like DON HINES, ( In various meetings conducted in DC ACLU office)who identifies him self as Executive director of ACLU, Washington DC( where as he is not) and previously during my arrival and captivity in CA by a Vietnam veteran who is/was working for intelligence dept. who had sought to inquire me for a whole night, during my journey from CA to NEW YORK, only mystifies as to what purpose they have sought me out.
Besides these people and many other threatening and telling me from time to time that my seeking help is of no use as even UN Human Rights would be of little help.
First of all I am not a Muslim as I have mentioned and I do not remotely prescribe to any form of violence or religion or religious aggression no matter who is the victim.
But the constant attempts to poison and assault me causing untold trauma and no human help being extended so far makes it very difficult for me to have any faith in humanity besides raising doubt as to why these Intelligence officials are after me, which is as the saying goes, "there is more to it than meets the eye". As i gather from my conversations with these operatives, who might be top intelligence operatives connected with 9/11 events and as a matter of fact all my requests for help have resulted more in in endangering my life and torture as I am being repeatedly told by Mr HINES that not even UN can help me ...?
As i have many times tried to leave US which resulted in futility and no help being extended by The Indian Embassy in DC and more over my treatment by various people ( social workers and staff of places where i was living) only suggests that i am actually a detainee under high and constant surveillance...?
I have by now forgotten to count how many times i have been poisoned in each of these cities, few times even being denied medical attention and many times ending up in emergency only to be told that they have found nothing like poison in their lab tests, explains how deep the problem is involving high and mighty.
As most of my belongings being stolen ( Two laptops and One 35 Camera kit , passport and all of my luggage, money)there is no way of proving my identity, Which all the more makes even common place situations look suspicious in my attempt to interact with others and most often the people who interact with me are agents and street operatives and informants in addition to Police, who fallow me in the streets on a regular basis.
It is most likely these officials/Operatives are picking some innocent people from all over the world and torture them and lure them using various means to involve in their not so legal activities.which only reminds me the involvement of a German team, a woman psychologist and another male who identified him self as a spy had offered to pay money for my needs and when i had declined their offer, he became threatening and people were seen knocking my cottage and circling during midnight, while i was at a Buddhist monastery last December.
( As the abbot informed me that these people actually came from Germany and I am under The Homeland security, in response to my request to be a volunteer for their ongoing activities)
So, is the case with WHITNEY GRETCHEN of Catholic charities in Washington DC,where i was kept for all most one year , who had also tried to woo me With some false offers and favors, was later on involved in sending homeless street gangs from black communities to beat me up more than once.
If it is true i believe there has also been an attempt to kidnap me and take or send me to PAKISTAN (while i was in NEW YORK) while inviting me to visit the Pakistani military ship, which was on a visit to NEW YORK is more than a coincidence. the manager and his staff of Pakistan origin, who asked me for three days, have later on tried to drug me and beat me up, some of his friend urging me that, i should become a MUSLIM and fight for Pakistan etc.
The series of past and ongoing events and my various attempts to seek help having come to nothing, I am on the verge of continued despondency and loss of faith in humanity.It would only make me wonder as to the nature of human integrity and American democracy,if a person like me were to be subjected to this kind of treatment, then it only raises questions like, is it the same with every American or the once like me me who have come to America. Is this is the day to day reality of a world's well known democracy, Is American is a country with no humanity which can come to the rescue of Innocent people and is it true that the events of 9/11 have to be looked at with suspicion,is it more so that no one in this country cares for truth or for humanity, are the kind of questions that not only bother me but it is for every one to examine.The need for finding out the reason for such atrocious activities, people like me are being subjected, who even in their wildest dreams are not even connected with 9/11, then how is it, such high profile intelligence officials/operatives have been chasing me for the last three years, while no one is willing to care or listen is something humanity needs to ponder for the safety of its future , which in turn will not only benefit the US and also the world. By which many of innocent people will be spared of the torture.
Each time i mention the people or the events they would dramatically disappear until other new people enter the scene.
It is most likely that by the time you would have read this mail ,I might have been picked up or some one in the streets (may be a black guy) would have stabbed me or a car / truck might run over me or I would be FOOD POISONED, like in the past as i have been count less times.Since my memory is waning after series of traumatic events it would be difficult to remember how many times( at this very moment after four days of Food poisoning i stomach feels like a cluster bomb has exploded) ,Or may be shot dead and killed by million known and unknown ways that FBI/CIA /CATHOLIC etc employs on people like me..
(though even to this day I remain failing to understand as to why do i deserve to be singled out and be treated like the way i am and who is most likely to gain by such mechanization's)
In the end it only leaves me with very little to say as I see very little humanity or hope around me.
Thanking you for your patience.

with warm regards,

Raja Indrakaran.
Washington DC.
P.S- I have been waiting, since the last three years to leave US with any success.....while today Us has more than 12 million Illigal imigrants who desire to stay in this country.

It is most likely That I will not be allowed to post on IB.... ?let's hope I am wrong.
Indrakaran.

and hopw about this.......
Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 11:59:21 -0400

From: "Correspondence NY WJCF"
To: "Raj Indrakaran"

Dear Mr. Indrakaran:

On behalf of President Clinton, thank you for informing him about the
problems you are experiencing.

I regret that the former President is unable to respond as you asked.
He does, however, greatly appreciate your interest and sends his best
wishes.

Sincerely,

Julia Pudlin
Department of Correspondence
The Office of William J. Clinton

and how about this.......
Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 11:59:21 -0400

From: "Correspondence NY WJCF"
To: "Raj Indrakaran"

Dear Mr. Indrakaran:

On behalf of President Clinton, thank you for informing him about the
problems you are experiencing.

I regret that the former President is unable to respond as you asked.
He does, however, greatly appreciate your interest and sends his best
wishes.

Sincerely,

Julia Pudlin
Department of Correspondence
The Office of William J. Clinton

and how about this.......
Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 11:59:21 -0400

From: "Correspondence NY WJCF"
To: "Raj Indrakaran"

Dear Mr. Indrakaran:

On behalf of President Clinton, thank you for informing him about the
problems you are experiencing.

I regret that the former President is unable to respond as you asked.
He does, however, greatly appreciate your interest and sends his best
wishes.

Sincerely,

Julia Pudlin
Department of Correspondence
The Office of William J. Clinton

and how about this----------
I am not trying to make a case here agaist no one-- except for stating facts------
Forwarded message ----------
From: TB-petitions OHCHR
Date: Apr 10, 2007 11:30 AM
Subject: Fw: protection of the right to freedom of opinion and expression
To: rajaindrakaran@gmail.com

Dear Sir or Madam,

After careful consideration of the contents of your complaint, we sincerely regret having to inform you that the United Nations Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights is not in a position to assist you in the matter you raise. The Human Rights Committee cannot examine petitions alleging violations of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR) unless the State is also a party to the Optional Protocol (OP). The United States of America is not a State party to the Optional Protocol. Further, the Committee against Torture cannot examine petitions alleging violations of the Convention against Torture (CAT) unless the State has made the declaration under article 22 recognizing the Committee\\\'s competence to receive and consider petitions. The United States of America has not made the declaration.

For information about the procedures for the examination of individual petitions on human rights violations, please consult our website: www.ohchr.org, (direct link http://www.ohchr.org/english/about/publications/docs/fs7.htm ). If you have difficulty accessing our website, please write to the UNHCHR, Information Office PW-RS-011, 1211 Geneva 10, and ask for Human Rights Fact Sheets Nos. 7, 12, 15 and 17.

Yours sincerely,

The Petitions Unit

--

----- Forwarded by urgent-action/UNCHR/UN on 05.04.2007 09:39 -----
\\

I wish if, Dash kapoor can respond to my postings.....?

I wish if, Dash kapoor can respond to my postings.....?
indrakaran.
http://peacockforest.blogspot.com/

Hi Keith,
Thanks.... :-)

Friends, Here is a great article -

http://www.saudidebate.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=801&Itemid=122

Love,

Sameer