Proof of God undefined.

Best thing is to just keep observing, truth becomes self evident if you entertain the idea:

Watching your thoughts, intentions, desires and those of others, including what might construe as an all pervading Divine Intention. Being aware of what is, or was, in your consciousness and what is occurring in your reality.

Then observing each and every event that occurs and seeing the correlations and connections between all the events and actions, realizing the number of supporting events that were required to manifest a particular event as well as the special timing needed between many of the objects and entities.

Noticing “problems” and “errors” that occur which effect the timing of things or result in path changes or refocusing of attention.

Entertaining the idea that everything happens for a good reason because there is intelligence behind it because then you start to see the logic behind various occurrences.

Then you take into account the number of apparently free agents involved and wonder how certain things could ever have been orchestrated. Realizing that our own finite, disconnected conscious mind with it’s linear processing could never manage such a feat.

While knowing that some connected sub consciousness infinite mind, with parallel holographic processing must be operating to produce the symphony.

Of course this will all eventually be explained by science for now God and The Mystical are just terms for things science hasn’t completely figured out yet. Many new revelations will come when scientists overcome some of the flawed preconceptions about the universe. Science is already making headway in this area; however some are slow to embrace that which conflicts with the typical understanding of the workings of the universe and “perceived” reality and what “appears” to the senses.

What we find out is that we have really all been talking about the same thing the whole time, just different contexts, perspectives and a play of semantics.

One needs only to study virtual particles and quantum tunneling to begging to grasp that there is something more than just our typical physical mechanical understanding of the universe, and that the mind and brain producing their own field effects could possibly alter physical manifestations resulting from field effect interactions with a substance in it’s wave state rather than it’s particle state. Scientists are probably correct in being adamant that the mind cannot influence an object in it’s particle state, however they seem to avoid the possibility that the “mind” or consciousness could affect an object in it’s wave state.

When the improbable becomes probable, and complex order arises from chaos, then usually intelligence is involved.

Spoon Bending is an interesting phenomenon. No doubt there are many illusionists that have fascinated others by creating the illusion of bending a spoon with the mind. Of course any physical bending of a spoon does originate in the mind as intention.

What spoon benders tend to want to imply is that they are using mental force and not physical force to bend the spoon.

Typically a spoon bending experiment demonstrating the application of a “mind force” would play out as follows. We place a spoon on a table, the spoon bender expresses his intention to bend the spoon and the spoon is then observed bending. Based on the spoon benders expressing his intention to bend the spoon we could surmise that the spoon bending was not a random event but is directly tied to the spoon benders expressed intention and some non-physically transferred force was involved.

I have yet to witness the above experiment performed in my presence, I would hold that it is possible not based on what is known by science but what is not known. Based on current knowing it is not probable, however something unknown could increase it’s probability.

We should note that illusion and fantasy do not provide for practical or beneficial application, so other than entertainment, they are worthless. A scientist is really ultimately concerned with practical application and a realized benefit that can be experienced with consistency. As we could all guess a Christian fundamentalist would explain it simply as the work of the devil.

What interests me about spoon bending is that a close and trusted friend had the experience of spoon bending without the effort normally required to bend the spoon. I have no doubt that is experience was valid, but what could be behind the manifestation of this experience?

This event happened at a PK party. Now it turns out, upon investigation, that there is physical contact with the spoon and a mechanical transfer of energy through friction does occur.

What is interesting is that the amount of energy transferred resulting in the bending of the spoon does not adhere to the principles of classical mechanical physics or the expectation of the spoon bender.

What we also find is a very interesting observable phenomenon experienced by the participants at the point of their success that has a correlation with a valid scientific principle, one that is relatively new associated with virtual particles.

To be continued…

Many scientists / skeptics would immediately scoff at the idea of spoon bending and would fail to investigate the phenomena with an open mind.

As such they would never properly interview the spoon benders.

Having interviewed a spoon bender, a certain observation, they made during their experience regarding a common factor at the point of success was conveyed to me. Later when studying research and information involving the discipline of quantum physics there I found and amazing correlation that may reduce the energy requirements for moving mass.

But all is good because we would not want these egoic minded scientists discovering powerful things.

It appears that the electromagnetic field produced by the spoon benders brain influences virtual particles in such away as to trigger a quantum tunneling effect on the spoon or other metal object, at least that is the most likely scientific parallel. There even appears to be a buildup of energy which is released. The spoon bender puts their attention on an intention (bend the spoon) and holds this for a while. When they then shift their attention, usually not intentionally, from the intention the phenomena occurs. Keep in mind virtual particles do not exist when you "look at them", but only turn up when you "turn away" they may also be viewed as a quantum bookkeeping mechanism.

Many scientists would claim that because of differences in terms of scale and interaction between quantum and classical mechanics, practical applications using mechanisms operating at the micro level would not be possible at the macro level, yet there might be a factor that does make it possible.

Of course what happens goes deeper than this but we are not ready for that yet.

This is a bit about virtual particles from Wiki and below that is a bit on quantum tunneling. If you read and comprehend them with the “spoon bending in mind” you may get an inspirational insightful flash as various groups of dendrites make new connections.

In physics, a virtual particle is a particle that exists for a limited time and space - so its energy and momentum values cannot be defined with unlimited precision. (Indeed, because energy and momentum in quantum mechanics are time and space derivative operators, then due to Fourier transforms their spans are inversely proportional to time duration and position spans respectively).
Virtual particles exhibit some of the phenomena that real particles do, such as obedience to the conservation laws. If a single particle is detected, then the consequences of its existence are prolonged to such a degree that it cannot be virtual. Virtual particles are viewed as the quanta that describe fields of the basic force interactions, which cannot be described in terms of real particles. Examples of these are static force fields, such as a simple electric or magnetic fields, or any field that exists without excitations that result in its carrying information from place to place.
However, the above summary is not the complete consensus view. Because virtual particles do not exist when you "look at them", but only turn up when you "turn away" they may also be viewed as a quantum bookkeeping mechanism. Many in the scientific community view them as an ad hoc abstraction that is required because our current view of reality as described by quantum mechanics is not complete. It is thought by this segment of physicists that virtual particles will no longer be required when a more complete view of quantum mechanics is integrated with general relativity and gravity in general.

In quantum mechanics, quantum tunnelling is a micro and nanoscopic phenomenon in which a particle violates principles of classical mechanics by penetrating or passing through a potential barrier or impedance higher than the kinetic energy of the particle.[1] A barrier, in terms of quantum tunnelling may be a form of energy state; analogous to a "hill" or incline in classical mechanics, which would suggest that passage through or over such a barrier would be impossible without sufficient energy. However, because of differences in terms of scale and interaction between quantum and classical mechanics, practical applications of the latter would be inaccurate.
On the quantum scale, objects exhibit wave-like behavior; in quantum theory, quanta moving against a potential energy "hill" can be described by their wave-function, which represents the probability of finding that particle in a certain location at either side of the "hill". If this function describes the particle as being on the other side of the "hill", then there is the probability that it has moved through, rather than over it, and has thus "tunnelled".

Now one other clue. The spoon benders at these PK events are actually creating friction rubbing the spoon.

Friction at the micro scale results from the Casimir effect or Casimir force.

The Casimir effect is the force that comes from “Nothing”.
The Casimir effect is the force that comes from “Nothing”.

The Casimir Force is an electric force, but its origin is different from that of ordinary electric forces. It is a purely quantum-mechanical effect arising from Zero-Point Fluctuations: a turmoil of virtual particles that come in and out of existence and that can violate the energy-momentum conservation of the system for very short periods of time, as described by Heisenberg's uncertainty principle.

By the way if we reverse the Casimir force we produce levitation. Which scientists are working on now.

This is from Wiki notice the use of “All pervasive”

In physics, the Casimir effect or Casimir-Polder force is a physical force exerted between separate objects due to resonance of all-pervasive energy fields in the intervening space between the objects. This is sometimes described in terms of virtual particles interacting with the objects, due to the mathematical form of one possible way of calculating the strength of the effect. Because the strength of the force falls off rapidly with distance, it is only measurable when the distance between the objects is extremely small. On a submicron scale, this force becomes so strong that it becomes the dominant force between uncharged conductors.

Now of course this is leading somewhere. I had no idea when I started.

Everyone keeps asking where consciousness is. Well, that is what virtual particles are in at least one context. Virtual Particles are consciousness, just a different label. VIP treatment is what we are talking about, Virtual Intelligent Particles.

The funny thing about Virtual particles is they don’t really exist anywhere, since they exist in nothing outside of space and time, yet they have a measurable effect “out there” but for all practical purposes they exist in here, at coordinates 0.0.0. It’s the same effect either way, Virtual Particles existing no where or at the point of observation in here at the point of being, Point of Presence, the present, and also “out there” in the field of subjective infinite infinitesimal points, yet not.

This is to be expected from Orthodox Scientists to discover consciousness and label it as virtual particles. I also strongly suspect that just like physics there is a micro and a macro. As above so below, as below so above. Like in the Kybalion [click my name]

Deepak, looks like I got a bit carried away, it is always good to be out of our minds sometimes.

beautiful..to me, einstein has always been as much a mystic as a scientist...

Dim consciousness

Visual Basic humour ! ;]

(geek thing)

Im only 27, so my hope is that one day science can give us some kind of brain enhancement that can open our spiritual eyes for us.

Let's face it, our existing brains are pretty hopeless at all thing spritual

Both Avtar Singh and Deepak Chopra are the perfect example of Moon Mind.
Moon Mind is exactly like moon- Reflects like moon so beautifully that one remains attracted by their arguments.
Einstein's God, or The Hopes for Secular Spirituality; Commonalities between Einstein and Mother Teresa, Understanding Secular Spirituality:
If one looks deeper into these posts, one will find only reflection and nothing more.
Like Avtar Singh writes: “In order to understand the commonality between the Einstein and Mother Teresa, one must understand the difference between faith and belief, which are most often and mistakenly confused to be synonymous.”
There is no need to explain just one has to go thru the life of Einstein and Mother Teresa’s life, both had contribute the greatest value of faith but both of them have been failed as per as spirituality is concern.
As Deepak Chopra writes: Einstein was coming very close to ancient tenets of Indian spirituality.
Moon minds always goes in past. Now there are beautiful arguments and new way to look towards The Electric Universe just look a beautiful movie Thunderbolts of the Gods or instead of practicing Vipasana one should try Osho’s Meditation Techniques, which are developed for modern man.
Meditation is the Only Solution.

Dim consciousness As String = "I AM"

Dim Being As Integer = 1

Do While Being < Infinity
Be()
Loop

Caught in an infinite loop.

Seems odd, to make topical conversations about the thoughts of dead people.

"we are what we focus on" has been repeated to me plenty at IB over the past 2 years; so are we focusing on the dead... for? what?

Yo I'm with you North
How do we know if Einstein would even have the same perspective today if he were still alive?

We don't know if Jesus or even Buddha would have different perspectives in todays world.

We are here now, we are constantly changing, let the past be the past and the future be a mystery.

Everyone has a different path to thier truth. There are no set truths or answers.

A-Man=No -Mind
For some it may be meditation, for others just the overwhelming compassion of humanism. For some it may be Jesus and for others ice cream. Yo

For Richard it may be eating Mexican Food with ET.

For me it is living without a map or a fixed belief system, an ever changing and evolving unfolding of each moment.

peace come from 7 billion different paths to truth, or more

derek

ps. I don't believe there is any truth to be found just what is now.

Derek,

I think this question demonstrates your point.

If you try to fail and you succeed, what has happened? Did you fail or succeed?

Hey Richard, well I succeeded in getting Mark and Kyle to pull out the washer and dryer and load them in the truck! so thats a win I suppose, I was gettin a little concerned I might have to move it my self!

All is well, now the king bed needs a movin!

Hi Derek.. well, considering most gurus financially capitalize on the poor, suffering, in that they make millions from the poor and suffering; it seems odd or perhaps greedy, to capitalize on the dead too...

Yo Ricahrd
Is this a trick question?

Hey Cozy, don't forget the hummingbirds. Someday, someway, two will play.

No it is not a trick question Derek, it is a user defined revelation.

Thank you Deepak. Well, I am off searching the internet and it appears that the recommendation that Deepak made is of a recent book. So I will just read what I can find, as I would really like to find a place that list Einstein's wise quotes. It's there, I just have to keep looking as I am now done with the first search.

Love, Char

Dr. Chopra:

Another good one! During my years at Masters at IRMA, Anand we had a course for freethinkers, where we were encouraged to think beyond the normal. In the end we had to submit a paper on something esoteric.

My paper was on this subject: Difference between motivations of Modern and Vedic Science.

My argument:

Modern Science: God is so-Dark Agey kinds, so if I can prove why lightning occurs (electric charges etc); I can prove that God is NOT responsible for this.

Vedic Science: Everything in this creation IS a manifestation of "God". So, if I can understand how lightning occurs, then I have understood part of what God is!

Now, that you think of it - the argument between "Faith" and Science can ONLY be articulated in these two paradigms!

Einstein, to the utter discomfort of other Scientists - who knew ONLY the anti-Science God, could not come to terms with his "religion".

Similarly, Dawkins cannot understand you or Einstein.

Galileo was the FIRST in Western world to proclaim that the Earth was NOT the center of the Universe or even the Solar System, as those before him claimed... and was punished for that. Western mind, seeped in Abrahamic ego-centered thought cannot escape this Ego-centered philosophical framework easily. That is the DNA of the three religions! Everything - from God to action, from friend to foe, is defined from the standpoint of "ME"... and ME only!

The mind steeped in that age old ME-centered was dealt a shock then.. by Galileo and it was dealt that shock AGAIN by Einstein!

Dawkins also - despite his atheistic credentials - suffers from the same malady! His mind cannot fathom that defining "God" in context of his ownself - as someone external.. is not the ONLY way. "God" or intelligence could be all pervasive!

But to even entertain that thought one has to take the leap of creativity that Galileo took and Einstein implied..

So, Galileo was not only killed then. He is also being killed today - both, by conservative Christians as well as by the atheists.. and both do not realize that behind the veneer of semantic differences.. they BOTH believe in the same .. EXACT SAME .. "God"... the ME!

Cheers,
Desh
Drishtikone.com

"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." -- Albert Einstein

http://www.humboldt1.com/~gralsto/einstein/quotes.html

I just found the above quote on the internet and I kid you not, as this is what happened to me while traveling down 29 (road) in Napa ....

Here I am driving looking for my next winery visit, trying to only visit the ones that I have not been to before. On my right there was this great swirling of wind ... like a hurricane, so I tried to find the tasting room of that winery, but could not. As I looked across the street there was this old white building that was called "Sticks & Stones." So I started fishing about this place future down the rode at the next winery. Apparently, this wind tunnel is somewhat common event in the Napa Valley, as the host had seen one himself. Another host said that the store was closed and it use to be a place for selling art, i.e., nothing special or unique. It was just a strange feeling to have a little storm come out of nowhere....but I am lost on it's meaning if any.

Love, Char

It's got to be fire, i.e., stones rubbing together to make fire, which burn the sticks. The Bible talks about the spirit fire (or lake of hell) that purifies all, so maybe this is what he meant? So this could be referring to the final war of the 4 forces in the physical world as we know it, as we become one with spirit? .... just thinking out loud.

Love, Char

u suck! damn! whoahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah.............

Galileo was the FIRST in (the) Western world to proclaim that the Earth was NOT the center of the Universe or even the Solar System, as those before him claimed... “ claims Desh Kapoor.

Desh, not true, you are dead wrong!

For kinder's only:

Of course, the center of everything around us
is at point 0.
Saved by zero, every time. Good old Zero. Yeah!

Look into space, kiddies. We have yet to see the end of it,
no matter which direction we look, no matter where on earth we stand.

If you wish to think planet Earth is at the center of 'it all',
you have every right to do so, providing you don't call it The Truth.

If you wish to believe a Mother Sun is at the center of 'it all',
just like our sun is at the center of our solar system,
you have every right to do so, because we do not know.

Time for recess.

For the record, it was Copernicus (February 19, 1473 – May 24, 1543) who first proposed that the Earth (geocentrism) was not the center of the Universe, but the Sun (heliocentrism). Though he too was wrong, he was leaning in the right direction for which he must be given credit, considering the limitations of his time.

A generation later, Galileo (15 February 1564 – 8 January 1642) rigorously defended Copernicus' position for which he took much flak from the Roman Catholic Church.

Both scholars revolutionized the way the universe was perceived.

Ron:

You are dead right! My bad. It still does not diminish the argument I wanted to make.

I know I have said that Galileo "was killed". I have read differing accounts of whether he was guillotined for it or merely "pressurized" and house arrested. At school we were taught he was guillotined. So, for now, I am going by that "version".

The central argument that I want to make is pretty clear - the concept of ME and I as being the center of creation is an overwhelming one in Western / Mid Eastern world. It has in fact defined the entire civilization. That is why God is a very Personal God - and one that is "out there" despite what Jesus (who I think, of all the "luminaries" of Abrahamic religions really GOT IT!) said (Kingdom of God is within you).

No surprise then that God is given the same characteristics that Men who define him in their own image have. Richard Dawkins and other atheists take the easier route.. of fighting such a God. Its easy. For such a God - full of envy and jealousy and one who intervenes as a monarch - cannot stand the test of logic in any argument!

The eastern concept of God - from Zen to Vedanta - has been VERY different. It is inclusive and comprehensive.

That is what Einstein with his genius and (more importantly) humility was leading to!

Cheers,
Desh
Drishtikone.com

#12
For some it may be meditation, for others just the overwhelming compassion of humanism. For some it may be Jesus and for others ice cream. Yo
Dear Derek,
If it is that much easy then there is no need to write. There are thousands of people doing meditation, overwhelming compassion of humanism and millions of people Jesus and ice cream. Buddha has spoke to thousand of people and out of one like Mahakashyapa, who truly understood him, J. Krishnamurti in his world: "I was telling them this morning, that for seventy years that super energy, no, that immense energy, immense intelligence, has been using this body. I don't think people realize what tremendous energy and intelligence went through this body, it is like a twelve cylinder engine. And for seventy years it went on, which was a pretty long time, and now the body cannot stand it any more. Nobody, unless the body has been prepared, very carefully, protected and so on, nobody can understand what went through this body. Nobody. Don't anybody pretend. Nobody. I repeat this: nobody amongst us or the public, knows what went on. I know they don't. And now after seventy years it has come to an end. Not that intelligence and energy, it's somewhat here, every day, and specially at night. After seventy years the body can't stand it any more. It can't. The Indians have a lot of damned superstitions about this. That you will and the body goes, and all that kind of nonsense. You won't find another body like this, or that supreme intelligence operating in a body for many hundreds of years. You won't see it again. When he goes, it goes. There is no consciousness left behind of that consciousness, of that state. They'll all pretend or try to imagine they can get in touch with that. Perhaps they will somewhat if they live the teachings. But nobody has done it. Nobody. And so that's that".
Just imagine if Deepak Chopra became Buddha and he will continue to write Book: Buddha: A Story of Enlightenment.

A-Man=No-Mind
Uhm, you totally lost me. I'm not quite sure what your trying to say.

derek

the only "true reality" is pain; so say psychiatrists and psychologists.

yo doodooman...

y r u surprised?

buddy already says he has no mind! duh!

#28
“Uhm, you totally lost me. I'm not quite sure what you’re trying to say.”
Derek
Me too. It is better to be lost than searching for the truth in the world.
Spirituality- Meditation- Religiousness- Love or anything, which has the quality, is the process of losing. For losing needs more courage then to search and only the one has guts to lost will go deeper in to meditation or able to love or anything to embody, which has quality.
Moon minds are wasting their time in finding Super mind, big mind, Deep Mind, silent mind and so on.