What is frightening, using some forethought on this "examination" of the global-brain Deepak; is that China is a communist country; and, if the intelligence rate there, exceeds that of the western world; perhaps in our lifetime, we will witness a shift in global power; and, it may not be to our betterment...

It seems odd; that it is the intelligent ones in our species; which create and cause the calamity's to which we witness currently--like communism in China, global famine and disease, immune defficiency's caused by antibiotics. Intelligent beings are perusing the use of not only nuclear warfare--but, also that of germ-warfare!

In the long scheme of things; it would seem the intelligence of the human brain is to conquer and destroy; not preserve and build??

North

What would be interesting to look at is why this is happening. I once saw an interview with Dana Zohar who explained how the brain expands enormously when faced with great challenges/changes, and how positive this is for the development of an individual. Deepak compares it to what happens with a brain prior/after birth- also a major challenge/change. Is it only the challenges we face that cause the expansion in brain capacity, or are challenges and exploding brain capacity co-arising and co-creating each other?

I think there is a strange convergence occurring.
We deny we are One and totally connected in the way Deepak espouses but we go about creating that very thing externally. Of course, I know that is still not seperate but an extension of our sensory capability.
Maybe the scientific approach is closing the gap of acceptance of our infinite connection like nothing else can. However, as a woo, I can't help thinking, I will wake up one morning where the two meet. I can't bear the thought of all the echoes. Ascension, here I come!

quote...

"There's a lot more to say about the global brain and where it's heading. But even from this snapshot, one gains new hope. The best American brains haven't been in charge recently, yet that hasn't stopped the exponential growth of intelligence elsewhere."

that says it all...how did we find ourselves in this ugly situation where our leaders have no vision, no hope...no plan but keep us in a rut of fear, war, war profit, debt and more debt that several future generations will be forced to pay back through the nose...!

I guess it's not so important that the Chinese brain is supressed under totalitarianism, just as long as it's IQ can be harnessed.

A harvest is a harvest right?

Steve

Dear Deepak,

I agree, good video, I think I have been articulating much of the same thing, for a while here on Intent Blog I did learn a few things, I probably learn a 1,000 new things each day and I have been doing it for 25 years I preferring to learn over watching sitcoms, dramas, and sports which don't do a lot for intelligence. The Discovery and History channel I find are of great value and increase intelligence.

In 2004 The Great Dissemination was the first theme posted as a part of The Infinite Play that streaming truth and intelligence that would soon dissolve the world’s fictions and ignorance.
The Apocalypse αποκάλυψις Began Sunday - A manifestation of divine will or truth
“The streaming has begun One to One to Many, they cannot see it or find it out”
Apocalypse / Revelation – The great dissemination of truth and insight that results in the end of the current system of things and Peace. It is a good thing. Tad bit of chaos and confusion stay tuned to the source.
~ From Infinite Play The Movie

I have the entire world's knowledge at my fingertips and so does anybody else that cares to know, the speed at which one can acquire new knowledge is probably 1000x what it was when one was in school, one just keeps building the knowledge base. The new data is so abundant and hard to keep up with, there are GOLD NUGGETS just waiting to be picked up.

For myself, the Internet and my computer have become an extension of my own mind, in fact I tend less to remember details just the concepts, relationships and how to find the detail information instantly when I need it. I am one with the Internet, the Global Mind.

Not only that, one can feed the global mind and originate beneficial memes for propagation, and if reality is based on thought then a new reality can be programmed using language to code it.

I am deeply grateful to all the researchers and experts on the planet that give me the gift of their knowledge.

I am also deeply grateful to all those that have been giving instant feedback the last two decades helping me to refine and evolve my own thought and understanding.

All that being said I don't think anyone is prepared for what is coming, some of it twenty years in planning and some Self evolving things I barely comprehend.

There is a mysterious force at work, and it’s been steering me and many others for a long time, and the climax is about to begin.

Of course the ego and those clinging to fictions and currently benefiting from the current system will resist the coming changes. Probability is that wisdom and intelligence will prevail in the end.

In 2004 Mr. Urgo Diamu announced CHECK MATE on his blog. Noting that the current systems had become dependant on the Internet and it could no longer be turned off, which means the truth could no longer be suppressed and the voice of wisdom and truth would rise above the din of the ego chatter.

Comcast was just caught trying to control and limit certain Internet communications (breaking federal laws doing a man in the middle type attack) and everyone knew about it within about 24 hours. They claimed they were just delaying things, doing traffic shaping but were proven to be blocking by the associated press who actually did some investigative reporting.

The talk is now about all the Comcast customers getting together and “delaying” our monthly payments.

Someone mentioned the dawning of the Age of Aquarius yesterday. The global brain is tuned in to this cosmic rising. And there seems to be a lot of static of predictions and foretelling.

What if Earth's systems cannot sustain our demands and our growth much longer? What if things come to a halt one way or another. What then of the geuniuses, the techno frenzy, the global schemes?

If/when Earth's systems shift what will matter in the global brain?

My brain is telling me to garden with my community and to live simply. Does it know something I don't?

Trish~~

What is Comcast?

Richard,

I feel just like you, that the internet is an intrinsic part of the mind, that information is available and circulating more freely than ever before, and most important, that the emerging wisdom is now also expanding and creating new memes faster than ever. One spark and the collective imagination is on fire with a brand new way of seeing things ... the shift is happening.

Trish,

The Earth can sustain our demands and growth, if wisdom reveals to us what these demands actually are and how we can sustain our growth in completely other ways than we thought before. My inner voice tells me, like yours, to live simply, because in that simplicity is the luxury I truly seek.

This inner knowingness tells me lots of other things, and I still don't know why and how the bits and pieces will fit together. One example is how I suddenly had to include the practice of sungazing into my life, there was no "discussion" about it, even if I hardly knew anything about it. I later found the information saying that it is not only a tool of spiritual growth, but has the side effects of training the body to use sunlight as a source of energy instead of food. Imagine how this world would look like if we didn't need to grow, manipulate, slaughter, consume, transport, buy, sell, fight over, worry about, lack or overproduce physical food.

We don't even need to know why we do things, if we recognize the voice of wisdom. All solutions are at the tip of our fingers, what we need to do is trust this inner explosion of intelligence, and we will grow into the solutions.

Aurora,

Wow, I appreciate hearing about your insight with sun force. Those are new thoughts and images for me! There is so much vast intelligence to receive. And like you it's fun to have the inner experience first and then learn about it.

I went to a peace march the other day and that night received information via vision from an aboriginal man. I am to make a rattle with certain designs and colors for helping soldiers pass over. It's a shamanic way of creating bridges between worlds. Just like your experience we are simply led/inspired. It's ego-less that way.

It's as if the "global brain" uses us. And it's important that we communicate what we are receiving, learning and doing. A Global Brain Network!

Thanks, Aurora.

Trish~~

What exponential growth of information actually means is that now the Sahasrara chakra or the third eye of global cultural system as a whole is in the process of opening. It signals its paradigm shift from the Age of Reason/Science to the Age of Intelligence/intuition/wisdom.

It has already been prediced and explained as happening in my book Self-Designed Universe because of global cultural system as a whole passing through four basic forces induced four basic interactions/phases (which otherwise every system has to pass through in its life) and now passing from the third interaction phase to the fourth.

It is because of this later that we pass from our middle age or the age of reason to old age or the age of intelligence/wisdom at our individual life levels.

As to why India and China or east in general is now coming into the forefront:

In our individual life our evolution/progress through phases thanks to four basic interactions happens in the sequence of: from naval chakra (gravitational interaction) to physical heart chakra (electromagnetic interaction) to head chakra (strong interactions) to spiritual heart chakra (weak interactions).

Converted to the global cultural scale it will be progress from the common center to the west (physical heart and left-sided brain are both to our 'west') to the east (right side of the brain and finally the spiritual heart which is said to be two digits to the right of the physical heart are both to our 'east').

Obviously everything is happening as per a grand scheme of things/design based on four basic forces induced four basic interactions which every system has to pass through in its whole life cycle and our intentions as is being said at this blog have no part to play in it.

No one could have stopped the coming into dominance of the east or going on back foot of the west. There was no dearth of wisdom when greek civilisation was at its top in the days of Socrates down to plato, Arsitotle, Empedocles, Heraclitus and so on, but yet none could stop its going down which was inevitable because of four basic interactions based scheme of things/design. Just as none can stop our going from middle age to old age.

It's interesting to make comparisons between our "shifting" culture and individual development using different models (developing brain, opening the chakras, etc.)

I have been watching little collage videos and stuff since the 1960s. At that time, society felt like it was going to burst at the seams, and we just kept growing.

The main cause is obviously the population explosion. Once humans figured out how to control the growing of food and fight diseases, we got ahead of the mortality curve.

More babies means some of them will be more geniuses of course.

I would like to have seen better figures in the film about who actually has access to all this information. Who is able to plug in and who isn't?

Who gets all the life saving medicines and who doesn't? Who has the nice schools and the huge fiber backbones of information and who doesn't?

What is the percentage of people being left out of this expansion?

The major challenge we are going to face now is control and use of water, food, and energy resources. We already have oil wars, and some say that situations like Darfur are due largely to water and food shortages, meaning we have moved into the era of wars to control water and food resources.

Also, is a smarter person a better person? It would seem to me to depend on other factors such as motivation, cultural conditioning, and the ability to empathize (which has been found to be particularly low in some ruthless overachievers).

And there will be intense struggles over control of the information flows. Who owns the pipes of information? Who decides what the content is going to be? Who decides who gets the info superhighway and who gets information footpath?

The challenge of exponential growth is always how to manage it. Usually it sprawls out of control with all types of unintended consequences, then the people who actually have a conscience try to patch up some things, while others just figure "hey I'm making money, so who cares about the rest?"

Society is definitely shifting, and you can see it in the arts. Gone are the days when you can become a megastar with one single and one appearance on the Tonight Show. No one has the market share of one-third the total TV audience like the Beatles did when they appeared on the Ed Sullivan Show.

We are definitely growing, but if we cling to antiquated cultural ideas, such as the purpose of life is to conquer everyone else and make as many babies as possible no matter what the consequences, we are also going to exponentially increase the size and frequency of disasters and societal breakdowns.

The given is that we are continuing to grow. The question is how well will we handle it?

Trish,

thank you so much for sharing, it is good to hear that you function in a similar way, and I'm sure that bridge is exactly what you need to do right now. I have the feeling that whatever people do on the surface is not what matters, there is a whole world of energy work being done all the time that more of us are becoming conscious of. I remember how surprised I was two years ago when I followed a friend on a tour to look at the runes and bronze age stone formations that abound where I live, and my body automatically started to work with those formations in ways I had no mental understanding of (like placing my physical body on such rocks so that the marks on them, amazingly, corresponded to the chakras, or connecting two formations to each other or to a mountain in another part of the world through light bridges, etc. I had no idea why and how, but I let it happen, because it felt completely right).

I know of a lot of people now, especially Q'ero indians, who work with the planetary energy. They travel around the world, open up energy centers and build bridges. They will soon travel to Germany and France, after having opened up other parts of Europe. These energy/light bridges are, as I see it, the subtle form of the internet highways, the subtle neural connections in our global brain. We still think we need machines to communicate, gather information, fill up our energy tanks or create reality. But it seems that slowly, our awareness is opening up to a more subtle level.

Thanks again Trish, it's good to talk with you about these things. Good luck with your work and let me know how it went, if you so wish!

Most people may find my comparison of the development of global culture as a whole with our individual lives as just a case of imagination run riot.

But in fact right from the universe as a whole down to the proverbial 'grain of sand' and every system inbetween, is comparable in the same way, beause fundamentally all evolve because of the same basic formula - of going through four basic interactions of gravity, electromagnetism, strong and weak in their whole lives (under question).

This is because: the same force which threw the universe out of singularity.... threw sun out of galaxy, threw earth out of the sun , throws species out of earth, throws human species out of system of species, throws individual lives out of human species and so on and basically in the same way.

In fact the same originl spiral of the spiralling universe, through many spiralling systems like spiralling glalxies on the way, finally becomes our spiralling chromosome or double-helical gene, also called kundlini shakti or spiralling force by Indian yogis.

Nor it should be very difficult to understand why all systems evolve from the deepest by going through four basic forces or interactions, a process which happens through quantum jumps or paradigm shifts depending upon of which level we are talking about. And which gives evolution at all levels discontinuity at the deeper level while allowing it to maintain appearance of continuity on apparent level.

Everybody knows that scientists have reduced/combined all the numerous forces working in the universe to four basic ones. And are on the verge of combining these four into one Unified Force. Even if as of now they have not been able to do so, we can infer from what has already been done that eventually all the forces must stand united, and the sole reason science has not been able to do so may be that the final Unified Force or Picture may just have to be self experienced like our nap/sleep/love-at-first-sight and so on and not known otherwise.

And in fact it is this that mystics of various times have experienced at one level or the other to say that all the universe is the product of One God or What Is or what you have.

Now suppose were any mystic, who was aware of scientists unifying all the forces into four and then almost into One, to look outwards from that Oneness towards the universe wouldn't he naturally see just the reverse process of the above - the one unified force now separating first into four basic in all directions and then into many? No wonder he will see all evolution basically or from the deepest just happening because of this separating away of forces, all else just being superstructure on this basic process/explanation.

This is what my book Self-Designed Universe is all about.

dear Harb,
is there no force that one can escape from?
Is there ever a time of complete rest?
Is it possible to transcend Forces all together, and still
be
Alive?

We come from the One and we return to the One.

Is that it in
a
nutshell?

:)
love,
~ Kate

Why do you fight?
Why this dark-reverse-engineering-self?

Talking to myself
Causing great concern for my health

Where is my head?
Where is my head?

Can your heart conceal
What the clear-mind of love reveals?...

I like to stir up the discussion about this subject a little bit :)

Dear Deepak,

Your quote:
"To put it simply, the solution to the world's problems is to bring in more problem-solvers"

actually prescribes the "Game of Life", the "Infinite Play" but what we are forgetting is how to "playfully play it" :)

Here is the definition of what History is all about:

- First we create the problems (the problem- makers)

- Then we are in search of solving them (the thinkers, the brain people)

- Then we find the solutions and the existing problems can be solved (the problem-solvers)

Then....... we start all over again (maybe at a higher spiral or level).

Isn't this what humans always have been doing?

The global brain will produce highly intelligent problem-solvers who will make highly intelligent robots and they will be able to solve almost all our present problems.

If thoughts create life, we are on our way to make every science fiction book true that has been written in the past 20th century.

I wonder if this is the way we are supposed to go.
Perhaps it is in the scheme of things :)

I have read Asimov in the sixties and according to a lecture about the future of humanity, given by him:

“We'll go back to the Moon, only not this time to just get on it and come back. We're going to establish a colony there, and we're going to have a group of people on the Moon who will then be able to make long space flights because they're used to being cooped up and enclosed in an engineering environment subjected to low gravity. And they'll work out other worlds in the solar system.

And then, you know, we can be as risky as we want. The whole thing...we've always lived with risk, and that's been the great thing about life.

The trouble is we've now reached the point where risk is risking everything! And you can't afford to risk everything. Until now in world's history, whenever we've had a dark age, it’s been temporary and local. And other parts of the world have been doing fine.

And eventually, they help you get out of the dark age. We are now facing a possible dark age which is going to be world-wide and permanent! That's not fun. That's a different thing. But once we have established many worlds, we can do whatever we want as long as we do it one world at a time.”

For his entire lecture: http://www.asimovonline.com/oldsite/future_of_humanity.html

Well, I can clearly see us moving towards the above direction in a not too distant future.

Mieke

Thank God I'm white and I know a little about precision bombing...

Went to the Atlanta Journal-Constitution job fair today. It was strange. They'd pared the gallery down to three doors with small curtained rooms. That was it.

Oh, and hundreds of interested applicants.

Behind Door Number 1: this was the most populated room, where people waited in line to use the job search computers. Probably 90% of the people in this room were black/minorities.

Behind Door Number 2: this was a carefully screened door. You were vetted first, and if you could prove to the guards that you were an "engineer", you were allowed into the room that contained IT/Engineering (never mind the fact that normally IT people aren't "engineers"). Thankfully, I know enough about laser guided weapons to make it past the guardians of this lair. At one of the six or seven booths in this room, I stood in a group of about six people as the woman from that defense company's HR department explained that they did not take resumes, that there were no jobs on the east coast, and that we should visit their website for jobs listed in California. End of briefing.

Door Number 3: Avon.

Oh, yeah, Walmart was in the foyer.

So I thank God that I'm white and that I know enough to have been called an "engineer" for about ten minutes today.

Perhaps I'll move to China and become a pear tree hand pollinator. I hear that they're in bee-ig demand these days.

Pear Pollination Engineer.

Sometimes you want to scream.

And sometimes you just did.

Met with a young black guy who said that, any more, he just puts everything in God's hands. He said he had faith that God would provide him with everything he needed. He just spilled out his heart to me right there in the galleria, a perfect stranger. "But", he said, "people are losing hope." He smiled.

He was very well dressed, handsome. And like me, jobless.

I nervously excused myself. Like I didn't want to get too close to him and catch what he'd gotten.

And sometimes you just did it again.

Posted by danashields

Harb wrote:"Most people may find my comparison of the development of global culture as a whole with our individual lives as just a case of imagination run riot."

Not at all. The idea that mass processes are mirrored in individual processes makes good sense to many here, I suspect. We each seem to have a different way of trying to explain how that happens, and that is good too.

The uniqueness of everybody's ideas about it is what makes this a place that contributes to our (dare I say it?) exponential growth.

#29
Sorry, I failed to copy a chart from the website of my book www.selfdesigneduniverse.com (open site and click 'see chart' just below two lovers kissing) showing many greater and smaller systems displaying essentially similar characteristics as they pass through four basic interactions induced four basic phases thus proving that

1. at the deepest level 'evolution' (change overtime) happens because of each system's going through four basic interactions, and
2. by inference the same one unified force now relevant to each system's level acting along its axis pushes this evolution.

Thus further proving that if it is so, not only global cultural system but all big or small systems wil have one unified 'brain/mind' and in fact one body as well.

Thanks yogi-one.

#15

Dear Kate, yes we come from the One and return to the One.

If we identify ourselves with our body/mind there is no escape from forces, but if we identify ourselves with soul/spirit/Love/One then we are beyond the pale of forces.

Daily in deap-sleep 'we' are beyond the pale of forces.

I know you have experienced that state which now must be lingering in your memory.

Love, Harb

Hi, Harb. None of the links you provided resolved. Do you have a more current link you can provide?

Hi danashields! Click on my name and the site www.selfdesigneduniverse.com will open up. Then scroll down where two lovers are kissing. Just below then you will see 'see chart' written in blue. Click on it. I hope it will help.

Packsaddle wrote in #25:
"nearly every article deepak writes takes subliminal potshots at white people, especially wealthy, male, white people.

i'm not sure if it is just mere hatred for our current president overflowing into other areas of deepak's life or maybe that san francisco haze is causing pathological conditions in deepak's mind.

it is especially odd that the article didn't mention the root cause of the decline of western intelligence: a failing public school system that has been hijacked by leftists promoting socialist ideologies."

I am sick, tired and ready to just stick my head in the sand and say

I caught some of Bill O'reilly on the radio talking about our public schools and the truly unbelievable things our kids are being taught .I give Bill a lot of credit for screaming this stuff from the rooftops.

San Francisco has banned military personal from speaking at all San Francisco public schools,but encourage speakers that say it's ok to find your sexuality by experimenting with homosexuality and being promiscuous ,after all being gay is just as normal as Mom's apple pie,coke cola,and Chevrolet.

If you say you hate America , George Bush and everything America stands for you are applauded. If you get pregnant ,no problem the teacher and principal have a card for the nearest planned parenthood office and your PARENTS don't even have to be notified!!!

Look at Portland Maine,the school board voted 7to1 to give 6th graders (11 year olds)birth control WITHOUT PARENTAL NOTIFICATION!!!!!

THRE ARE SO MANY STORY'S LIKE THIS FROM ACROSS AMERICA. I heard a story like this from KANSAS ,KANSAS?? What the hell ? From KANSAS.


The reason that I am ready to just quit is I get so dam frustrated and angry I am probably going to drop from a heart attack. Sometimes I just want to go out and scream from the top of my lungs ! I want to scream,WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THE PEOPLE,DONT THE PEOPLE CARE, DON'T THE PEOPLE SEE WHAT IS HAPPENING TO OUR BELOVED AMERICA? WHY ISN'T THERE A HUGE PUBLIC OUTCRY! WHY ISN'T THE SCHOOL BOARD OF PORTLAND MAINE TAKEN OUT AND H---- FROM A T---- .WHERE IS JOE PUBLIC!

IF I COULD NOT SEE THIS WITH MY OWN EYES I WOULD NOT BELIEVE THIS WAS HAPPENING.
AMERICA NEEDS TO WAKE UP.

Soon the philosophies of stoicism and epicureanism will emerge and come to vogue in America.

For details consult the last chapter of my book.

Fact:
Number of people China employs to "to prowl Web sites, blogs, and chat rooms on the lookout for" content that might offend the Chinese government: 30,000.
Total number of employees at the CIA: About 16,000.

(Source: Business Week, 01/23/06)

Well .... in the Bay Area, we just had another earthquake 3.7 aftershock and main one was at after 8 p.m. (PDT) last night at 5.6. Enough to notice, but the force was weak to where there was very little damage. I just remember praying as it happened, 'Lord forgive me.'

"The epicenter of the quake was in the Diablo Range foothills east of San Jose"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_2007_
Alum_Rock_earthquake

What was kind of funny was that the only real damage was all these wine bottles falling off the store shelf onto the ground and breaking in this one store. And I had just finished dinner as I was enjoying my wine.

And on the radio, one young woman, said she had just seen her disembodied mother who plays tricks on her sometimes as they were telling Halloween stories.

In the US, today is Halloween and we celebrate our loved ones who have moved on from this life. However, others just celebrate the night going "Trick or Treating," where people dress up in costumes and ask strangers for candy - mostly the children do this. But it's not as safe as it use to be, so it's monitored by the parents better. And the adults dress up and go to parties.

Maybe that's the Bay Area Brain....and global too.

Love, Char

Okay, so I just watched that clip and now I understand what Deepak is saying in his post above.

At 8 years of age, my son had begun building computers from scratch (hardware), as well as installing all the software and making it work! My son had lived with me for a few years, so my 3rd husband taught him in one of his companies, who is a genius (no kidding & off the charts per the drs.)

Now my son uses his skills to maintain his own PC at the top running level (so he can play games and win), as well as building his family and friends PCs and keeping them operating. But my son chose to work with his dad and uncle in the family business of commercial and residential landscaping in the Deep South of the US. One never knows what the children decide to do with their lives. My son says he likes the peace and quietness of the country life as well as be around a big family over the fast life of Silicon Valley where he got into trouble a lot while I worked at a semiconductor company as an assistant.

I've shared this before, but I will again here. About 10 years ago, I took my family on a two week vacation visit Walt Disney Land (when I had money), visit family in Florida, as well as the Bahamas, asking God to be with us all as everyone was hurting from some type of recent emotional painful experience. Many things that were miraculous for us happened on that little vacation, but I am just going to share one of then as it relates to one incident at Disney Land.

My son, as always spent a lot of time in the technical center at Disney Land. And they had this one game that could read one's vibrations or heat/cold that allowed one to ski. My son was excellent at it. Basically, to get the hang of the game, one had to think left to make the skier in the video game turn left, same with turning right, stopping, going fast or slow, as the skier moved thru the curving mountains. I tried it and eventually kind of got it, but I lost interest before I could make the skier stop. I remember this game taking more brain power that what I was willing to donate to it.

So, in short, I am with Deepak on this one. And I do not believe that there will ever exist a computer greater than the ONE MIND, as it is the mind that creates the computer and not the other way around. Computers are just an extension of ourselves and actually can help us to realize our full potential.

However, in saying all this, there is nothing greater than the capacity of the human heart to love, i.e., nothing is greater than love...nothing.

Love, Char

Steve Jobs once said that he sees computers as bicycle for the mind...

he made that comment in comparison to the locomotion efficiency of the condor vs. human... but when compared with a man on a bicycle... it blew past all of evolutions best primates...

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ob_GX50Za6c

Oh, I almost forgot this part, which no one will believe. After we cultivated and toned our senses on that skiing game, that night as I was sleeping, my son had thrown one of his cigs into the toilet and was making it move all around in the water. So he woke me up and I did not believe it, thinking the toilet water was continually circulating. Then we filled the sink up and put a stopper in it, at which time my son got the cig bud to move all around in the water. He stopped it and insisted I try. I did and it worked for me, but not as good as he could do it. But I got bored again and was very tired, so I wanted to go back to bed. We don't realized the power of our own mind. It's not really magic, it's just cultivating the mind. However, I think when one gets an ego over what they can do and starts doing things that they should not do, then the ignorant child experiences evil - their own darkness. The heart is the true power of love and is the treasure that will follow us into the next place. Well, time to go home.

Love, Char

Yes, the mind follows too, but not the material stuff that we do with the mind ... the silly stuff. So I guess it's all good (if not abused), but with a heart makes it cherry. We must develop our hearts to handle our next phase in evolution.

Love, Char

Hi David: If you have a heart attack, try and keep your writing arm in shape so you can write a READABLE POSTING(#31)???? LOL, I can read it now that I have "replied"....TEE HEE!

I presume you are "ACTIVELY" INVOLVED in "WAKING THEM UP"???

Keep up the good fight, it's only just started, think of how the troops feel when it gets rough, they fight it out to the DEATH! We can still sleep in our warm beds......FOR NOW, and we can continue to do so IIIF we keep up the fight off shore AAAND fight off THE ENEMY WITHIN????

This is a test of the PATRIOT Americans "mettle" having to fight for survival on TWO major fronts, the PROGRESSIVES in shore and the HEADCHOPPERS off shore!

We have to fight now more than ever to conquor the ENEMY WITHIN who are taking advantage of this Jihad to implement their PROGRESSIVE legislation, so it goes without saying that we have to purge the traitors in Congress and purge the Activist judges to assure our troops they have a FREE country to come home to!

WE DO THAT ONE AT A TIME and a way to do that is get the people to feel as you do.....GET THEM MAD! The public are not MAD ENOUGH... YET!....BUT THEY WILL BE, I JUST PRAY SOONER THAN LATER!

Regards... Stephen;

Aurora #13:

Thanks for connection and conversation.

Did you say stones? I love stones...stones love me. We exchange some sort of magnetic attraction. I sit by them and drum. They thank me. If stones are the bones of the earth are they not my bones as well? Time to listen to stone and bone.

Please tell me more about your awareness of planetary energy. How do ley lines fit in the picture? How is Kundalini and spiral design related?

Have you had experiences/relationships with Fairies? I received the word "impress" from Fairy realm. They impress their force on matter. They are joyful and loving. Humans can learn a lot from these sprited ones if we would turn that direction. Fairies speak through green nature.

Enjoy today, Aurora.

Trish~~

Tom, that's a pretty good take on it. Sometimes basic common sense eludes those who are supposed to be stewarding our children.

I've heard that looking up directly at the sun will cause blindness.

Char, if you look at the sun just after sunrise or as the sun sets the Earth' atmosphere filters out the dangerous rays. One starts with 30 seconds of gazing and gradually acclimatises to more each sunrise. How this replaces the normal food metabolism and energy supply is beyond me.

That makes sense as I've looked at the sunset, but in mid-day, the teachers always said in science class, 'don't look at the sun.'

I never get to see any of it anymore (outside), as they keep asking me to work longer and longer hours. You know, the boss insist I come in early 3 times a week for a meeting and then I still cannot leave early as all the other admins and execs depend on me to be here (just in case) - every one expects me here, and that's apparently what makes me currently valuable. And since I am salaried, it doesn't matter what my hours are as I get paid the same amount of money. I get up early to read 15 min., pray/mediate, exercise, shower, hair & make-up; and when I get home, I have just enough time to eat and read 15 min., pray/mediate before bed. It just does not seem fair, but we all know that my mind must be doing this to me. Then my Saturday is spent recovering and by Sunday, all I want to do is relax. I haven't even been to the grocery store for over a month or two, so tomorrow, I will get set up for online delivery so at least I can get fresh veggie to stay well, as I usually get sick when I don't have any fresh food around. And all this for what? Sometimes life just sucks.

My blessings: At least I don't know have to work weekends and only holidays, nor am I on call 24/7. I was looking at this assistant position with this CEO at one of the hot hotels in Las Vegas, and that was the requirement of the job! Like ... who wants to do that unless they hope to take the CEO's job and make a ton of money. And I really wanted to move to Las Vegas .... really bad. I thought I had a plan .... but I am not going to pay in blood for it. Oh, well.

Sorry about the bad English as I kept changing my post and did not go back to re-read it fully, which I do a lot!

Hi, Char4. Your energy must be extremely valuable to all of them. Like a center, a stable point.

There's an interesting analogy: on smaller sailboats--like under 25 feet or so--if you set your sails for a beam reach or running, you can lock your rudder and then just lean (like you would on a biycle), and your weight steers the boat (only the opposite of a bicycle).

It's all about subtleties. Finessing it, understanding nuances. So perhaps your presence is having such an affect on the organization.

Lean a little and see where the boat takes ya!

Ultimately, life can take some sudden turns.

Your story was my story until February. Now my job is to fold the laundry and change the cat litter. Then it's a whole different set of challenges. The quiet is sometimes frightning. You can hear the house creak of its own accord.

Anyway, not sure why you're up for Las Vegas, but I will splay out to the universe some positive thoughts about you there...

This has been the most interesting article I've read in over a month. I am truly excited to come back here when I have more time. Its refreshing to stumble across a site where you can really connect with very intelligent people.

Richard Thomas,
Your post above sounded like I wrote it about myself. I just had this same discussion last evening, of course it was one sided as most people cant communicate with us without feeling uncomfortable. We know too much to remain quiet in a conversation. I am very grateful for all the internet has provided me and I learn more every week than I learned in the first 18 years of my life. Maybe I'll email you and we can debate sometime.

Brad

Char #45:

I so relate to your story about work and lack of time to oneself. Can you take a walk on your breaks? You are entitled to breaks! And on your break listen and watch (it's a break for the senses) for signs that uplift you. And could you find one or two co-workers to do some yoga/ stretching a few minutes a couple times of week?

We don't have to stay with old patterns just because everyone else benefits. Can you consider saying "NO" to people that are pushing you? Can you consider saying "YES" to that which keeps you balanced? I am also working on this in my job and relationships.

Take time for yourself....you deserve it!

Trish~~

Dear Trish,

thank you, I'm enjoying my day, exactly as it is :) I loved this question from your post: "If stones are the bones of the earth are they not my bones as well?"

You seem to be well aquainted with the subtle world. Yes, I too know fairies very well :) I love the elves of the water, of the trees, of any aspect of nature, it is easy to contact them and play together. In the beginning I thought they were "out there", but now I know they are in me, just a symbol of what I also am, like everything else. One could maybe say that they are the subtle image of the life in everything, even inanimate objects (like the stones you mention) have this core of life, this awareness and capability to communicate. It is actually the One communicating with itself on a level prior to language.

I'm sure you know more than me about ley lines, and you are welcome to tell us more. What I see when I look at the planet is a net of energy connecting every single point of solid or subtle matter (animate or not), through lines of relationship. Everything is related to everything else, so this net is very dense, it is indeed more like a multidimensional fabric (tissue?), where some "threads" are brighter than others, depending on the amount and quality of energy they can let through. Every point is related to every other point, but those threads where the relationship is conscious (like yours with the stones), are brighter, more active. Many "threads" are still dormant, and this is what is happening right now, there are conscious connections being opened between people, between people and nature, between places in nature (like mountains or bodies of water), between ideas, solutions, organizations, between our inner and outer world, etc.

Dear Char,

It is true that looking directly at the sun without inner/outer knowledge will hurt your eyes. But like Edmund explained, the damaging IR and UV rays are filtered away during the first hour after sunrise and last hour before sunset. These are the only times when one can do the sungazing. I have read of only 10 seconds for a start, and of ten more seconds added each day. Some people are too sensitive even to this, so they have to start with sunbathing during the first/last two hours of the day, which will help them take in enough of the sun's energy through the skin to become able to gaze. But there are a few more important details to think of (like total duration, surface you stand on, etc) so if your inner voice should tell you this is something for you, please check the litterature available on the net first, and be sure to check that it agrees with you at every step. A good place for the description of the procedure is this: http://www.solarhealing.com/sgprocess.htm

Dear Edmund,

the human body has four types of channels for energy intake: air, water, food and prana.

Prana could be called life energy, and it is abundant in good quality air, water and food, but also in everything else. Prana is what makes food so delicious if it is fresh, and what leaves that food as it becomes old and stale. Prana is what feels so nourishing when we take a walk in nature, as trees release a lot of prana just before sunrise and after sunset. Rivers are channels of prana, and prana is what flows out of the hands or eyes of a healer.

The prana of the sun is very powerful and intense, the sun being the direct symbol of the spiritual Sun or primordial source. There is a mantra in Vedic tradition called Gayatri mantra, it is considered one of the most sacred, and it is meant to open a direct channel to the spiritual Sun. This mantra started to be chanted in my mind the first time I gazed at the sun.

And what happens? We have a direct channel of intake of prana, through the third eye. The physical eyes can take in physical light (just like the other channels take in food and air and water), but it is the third eye that directly takes in the subtle form of nourishment that is the actual life force, prana. So when you do the sungazing, you start activating this channel, and start training the body to take in more prana directly, instead of taking it through other vehicles (like food). What your body needs is not food and water, but the energy contained in these elements. And instead of transforming the gross elements with your body, you start serving it the subtle, more powerful form of "food" directly!

The texts I have read talk only about the prana entering through the eyes, but my observation of the process tells me that the main channel is the third eye. That is why I have adapted this practice to suit my body's needs, by continuing the subtle "gazing" after the physical one, but this is maybe not true for others. Also, if you wonder if both food, water and air can be done without... all I can say is that I know that the requirement for food is decreasing in my body, that many other needs are starting to be worked on, I also know of other people who live without both food and water (Jasmuheen is one of them, I think), and that living without air is probably also possible in a physical body, but only after the prana can be fully processed from light or from another source, like the Earth. To me, this last point isn't really interesting at this time, but the inner guidance does inspire me to work on the other two (food and water). Don't ask me why, because if you do, I'll surely find many good reasons :)

Aurora,

Thanks for enriching my day with your wisdom. Regarding fairies and angels I am wondering: Did not the human species have wings at one time? Were we not one with light beings of all sizes/dimensions? Or are we evolving wings?

I have heard that the ancient continents of Atlantis and Lemuria "sank" due to people choosing technology of ego power over technology of crystal power. Is this a clue to the loss of our spiritual "wings"?

I love food and am healing my relationship with it. As "Fatty Patty" in the 3rd grade and with obesity and diabetes in my family food is often seen as the "enemy". I seek to find balance in my love of food. And that process feels so much like a gyroscope.

Lessons in every relationship and direction are about staying upright and not tilting too far one way or the other. It does remind me of Earth and her relationship with Sun. What a love affair that is! And the shift?....is Earth tilt a reflection of her children's tilt? And are we all moving to a more up-right position in the cosmos? Is that the "rapture" forthcoming?

I would think that sunrise and sunset are a perfect time to attune or "gaze" with beings of light. To align with these forces and friends. My sense is they are waiting for us to turn away from our busyness and greet them.

Trish~~

#51
Thanks, Aurora, for comprehensive coverage. I have no problems believing the essence of this. I believe in the open-endedness of human potential.
I feel we get so hooked on food that we grind to a halt, with it. The stop is of our making.

Now the cry goes up. "But, it is my preference. I do so enjoy my food and the culinary arts! Besides, one would die if one did not eat. It's a mental abberration called anorexia and what about those who go on hunger strike? "

In my severest of thoughts, I cry, "Affectation!"
Yet I, too, linger long. ;)

granpa!

Many a good tune played on an old fiddle, Diab!

Wow, I learned something interesting today, as I've never heard of sun-gazing, so thanks for explaining it guys. I do know that I love laying out in the sun, but could not this year (only got to a few times) due to where I now live. The warmth of the sun always makes me feel better and has always been a general healing tool that I have used in the past, but more on the subconscious level I think, as I did not know why I did it but I felt and looked healthier after getting some sun.

Anyway, hey - thanks all - for the kind words and another way to look at my situation. I have been trying to go with the flow, but some days it just gets to me. My problem is that I have been very verbal as well as digging my heals into the ground, so I have been practicing being easy. I have noticed that others are now being easy on me as I have given an inch or two, so it has been my choice (kind of), as it has made peace with people around me. But I done believe that I need a healthy balance and maybe I don't have that in place yet as I thought I did by reading the responses to my post...so thanks again! I don't know about me having all this great energy as I feel it gets zapped when I come to work and then I get sick, but I think that's probably due to my internal conflicts and all the changes that I am going thru within myself, as I try to get it right for me.

But I am doing better and exercising 6 days a week consistently now for about 15 minutes. And I just added my stretching exercises - 5 minutes every day, which I use to do years ago, but never knew why. From what I've read and seen in books, my stretches are very similar to the yoga moves and it has helped me greatly to realign my energy as well as unblocking it and getting it to flow correctly. It is amazing and I had no idea what I was missing, but just knew for several years that I felt bad physically and I was not stretching as I had always done.

And thanks all for sending me some of your positive energy as I could feel it ... the light and love, even before I came here this afternoon. So I send you back love and light....got keep that good stuff flowing :-)

And yes, I should be thankful that I have a job, but a nice and very long vacation is inviting. So I am envious of anyone who can stay at home, but I guess it gets old too.

BTW: I have come to notice that we all have a profound effect on others, so it is always good to try to remain in the best possible state of mind and of body, as well as in heart, so that we can help others when they need it - that's my fairly new goals and what have I have been working on, i.e., loving myself.

I was thinking that I was so blessed this morning that I did not win the Halloween contest at work a few days ago, as I really got spoiled by the 1st and 2nd place winners and others, i.e., they gave me so much good energy and little gifts. When I found out I had not won, I took it upon myself to get over feeling sorry for myself, and I sent them both an email congratulating them and told them that they deserved to win and were the best! But I did mention to them both that I planned on winning next year ... kind of joking. It's funny, I had not really entered the contest, but it was by default because I dressed up. I could have done better if I thought the whole company would be comparing us and judging my outfit .... oh well. But I took it in stride and it was a lot of fun as we got into it.

Love, Char

PS: There was a very strong pull to go to Vegas, so it was hard to explain. It just happened and I even had made something I was going to sell and knew where I would work, who would be my friends, as well as my boss and the ones to help me succeed. It was amazing, now that I think about it. For some reason, I pulled out and stopped as it would have cost me a lot (money, time, etc.) to get going and when I saw the sacrifices for a certain life style, I changed my mind thinking that it was not really what I truly needed within ... or was it? It's now on the back burner, but it's got to flow smoother. But they say when a wave hits, we must ride it or miss out. So I think I let this wave go and I believe it was a wise decision, i.e., I had put a prayer (intention) out there (didn't know it would be Vegas at the time) and I was given what I asked for, even though it would have required a lot of work and I think I am too old to start over again....I just don't know. Who knows, maybe I would have stopped getting sick if I was happy. Because now, I can only make it to Saturday if I eat right and lately I can barely make it to Friday before getting really sick. I know it's all mental. I just don't know what to do at the moment. But I will start eating fresh veggies again, to get me thru the week :-) ... until I figure it all out. So I am getting up from the ground again and will try and catch another wave when I am stronger.

Love, Char

Ref. Packsaddle, David, Steve, Tom, danasheilds

University defends teaching students all whites 'racist'
November 1, 2007

www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58450

By Bob Unruh
WorldNetDaily.com

I'm glad if anyone had joy in this info about sungazing, and I want to thank you all for beautiful, sincere, wise and humorous posts.

Trish,
to me, human beings have always had wings. We were born with them, and the journey is from the childish innocence of flying without knowing, through the sometimes painful adventure of crawling through the mud, having forgotten you can fly, to the remembering of your nature as a winged Being, this time flying consciously, knowingly, with the added wisdom and compassion of fully embraced... mud :)

I'm glad that you love your food. We all need to find a partner for a love affair as grand as the one of the Earth with the Sun. One can have a love affair directly with Spirit, with the sun or with the food on our plate, what matters is that our spiritual passion finds a channel that is able to carry it, a reflection spacious enough to contain it. And that we are willing to let go of everything (even of our beloved food!), if love should ask for it.

Edmund :)
You often make me smile, thank you. How do we get past all the believing, past all the theory and into the actual letting go...? I think life has a billion ways to help us ;)

Char,
you are always flowing with such grace through your challenges. It is inspiring, I appreciate that about you.

Aurora #58:

Right on! I am choosing to be home alone tonight because of my relationship with spirit. I discover that it is my primary relationship. Spirit feeds me like no person and no food can. In solitude I soak in its essence and listen to its music that plucks the strings of my being.

There are a couple of men in my life who pull on my "orbit" -- my energy field. They want\need time, energy and red fire -- and it's a drag. Why the focus on red? My fire includes all colors of the rainbow.

Human obsession with red fire has created an imbalanced field personally, collectively and globally. In my quest to balance and stay upright am I not aligning my South and North "poles"? In my quest for community am I not seeking friends and a partner who stands upright with me?

Where are those who can expand one's whole and holy experience without wanting/needing something for themselves? Where are those who seek relationship with spirit first and in that field attract others into the conversation and experience?

I love the movie The Dark Crystal. It is such a mythic story of dark and light forces coming together and transforming earth matter. I think I'll watch it now...alone. Why does "alone" feel so expansive tonight? Perhaps because of the generation of this spiritual community.

Trish~~

#57 posted by Sandy

(WorldNetDaily: University defends teaching students all whites 'racist')

Absolutely incredible!

Would you say that this sort of "political correctness" on the part of a university faculty or administration is an example of a "rational" status strategy in action?

If so, then I have seen far too much of such "rational" status strategies. In fact, the modern women's power movement has been reeking of such "rational" strategies from almost the beginning.

I know a person who was once terminated for daring to be direct and open in expressing his pro-life views on abortion to female, pro-choice students on campus, even when this happened outside of a classroom setting. I suppose that being male means one must be a sexist, just as being white means one must be a racist.

Do you not feel that, at least at some level, this kind of behavior is, in fact, irrational? Personally, I think it is the result of a serious, underlying class/group paranoia.

Did Hitler just use scapegoating of Jews as a "status strategy," or did he really believe the delusional, paranoid ideas he and his Nazis spread? Does a rational status strategy lead to a rational holocaust? Personally, I think he was as paranoid/insane as the day is long.

And, it seems to me we are seeing today much of America suffering from very analogous types of class paranoia.

Trish,

you are like a harpe, I only touched a chord and all of you began to pour out music :)

I think that Spirit is what feeds us all. I think that there are people who have let Spirit fulfill their desire so deeply, that they are now shining the light instead of needing it. I think that as we come close to being a fully developed Sun, we find ourselves alone, just like the Sun might feel alone in a sky full of distant stars. But at some point, the light takes over completely, and alone means all there is.
It's preposterous... but I think our planet is turning into a sun :D :)

Thanks for the movie tip, Trish :) All the best to you!

Aurora #61:

When I read your comment about music pouring out I felt an emotional sensation of waves moving between us. It's as if we are bouncing energy off one another in a crystal grid or community. It's fun to be dancing in cyber-space this way.

PS: I agree with your thinking that Earth is evolving into sun phase of expression.

Trish~~

Waves of e(motion)nergy circulating in the global brain... nice :) Thanks for this dialogue, Trish!

#31 David

What's so "NORMAL" about Coke-a-cola?

it's filled with harmful chemicals!
There is plenty of scientific evidence
to back that up.

What's so "NORMAL" about Chevrolet?

That's just another global "brand". Cars spew harmful exhaust chemicals into the air! There is plenty of scientific evidence to back that up.

"APPLE PIE" has tons of refined sugar in it, and eating too much refined sugar causes all kinds of health risks. There is plenty of scientific evidence to back that up. I would perfer to eat a fresh juicy organic apple! It's much healthier.

Gay people have a "Mom". There's plenty of evidence to back that up. A mom who loves them, and they love their mothers. People who are gay are born that way. I have lots and lots of friends who are gay and they are more normal than you will ever be. There's nothing wrong with being gay, unless of course you are trying to force YOUR RELIGION onto everyone else in America (a country who's founding pricipals included FREEDOM OF RELIGION!)

DECLINE of Western Intelligence? This whole blog is about THE INTERNET making society more intelligent. The TRUTH is out there, we ARE awakening to it, and no one can stop us from enlightenment.

Giving birth control to kids is NOT teaching them to be "promiscuous". Those kids who would be getting the birth control ALREADY ARE "promiscuous". (This is the point you don't understand - these particular types of kids are going to do what they are going to do regardless of what you say or any "rules"). Not ALL 11 years old are "promiscuous". Not ALL 11 year olds are "bad kids". Why are you lumping all 11 year olds into 1 group? They are as diverse as 21 year olds. Your ranting and raving like a lunatic on a chat forum is not going to change the behavior of 11 years olds in general. Yes, I agree you are "sick", you need to take some anger management course or go see a psychiatrist, especially because of the way you are threatening physical death upon the school board of Portland Maine. If killing people is your answer to solving problems then please do go stick your head in the sand. Maybe the school board made a mistake, but you would want to see them all die a horrid death because of that? Sheesh, you are insane! The people on that school board have families, sisters, brothers, and mothers and fathers who love them. And many of them probably have kids of their own. If they were wrong they could easily correct their error by simply not giving any kids birth control. And then the kids are simply going to secretly go have sex where you can't see and nobody else can either, and then the population is going to continue to explode and here we have 11 year olds with babies! Is that really what you want?
I'm going to go pray and meditate now, and I'm going to choose to focus the power of my thoughts on a bright future with more intelligent people in the world. Peace, love, and light to everyone!

Re. 60, Friend_of_Deepak

I think status striving is a component in most of the behaviors that human practice.

I think you and I have different definitions for the term "irrational". Much of behavior is irrational, in that it is not thought out and is instinctual.

Sandy:

Instincts are not cognitive, yes. They are irrational, yes. I don't see how we have different understandings of what irrational means.

Anne:

"He should contact the Institute for Justice (www.ij.org) and bring a civil rights lawsuit against the university that fired him for expressing constitutionally-protected political speech."

Old history. And I detest lawyers. IMHO lawyers were highly instrumental in getting us into the state of insanity in which we live.

Friend_of_Deepak, 69

"Sandy:

Instincts are not cognitive, yes. They are irrational, yes. I don't see how we have different understandings of what irrational means."

Because I think that gene based instincts underlie most of our behavior. I, maybe mistakenly, got the impression that you didn't believe that.

Re. 71

"Most of our behavior"??? That isn't the question, is it? What about cognitive behaviors? Are there no behaviors that are not controlled by instinct? Is cognition always irrational? Choosing and supporting a political position is based on instinct and not on cognitive behavior? The kinds of behavior we have been writing about, including politically correct behavior, promoting socialist
ideology, engaging in class warfare, advocating globalism, etc. - these are all based on instincts, or controlled by instincts, and learning/cognition are overpowered? You seem to be coming very close to saying that there is no such thing as learned, cognitive behavior, or at least that it has very little influence on what we do.

Ref. Tom, # 62

It is like group hysteria in academia and the press. They get boisterous and obnoxious about an alleged "right" to tear a baby from its womb, and whatever anyone else thinks or feels about this be damned... but will turn around and act like agitated drama queens about any number of the tiniest slights, real or imagined...-Matt

Re. 72, Friend_of_Deepak

The intellect, as I've said, rides on top of the animal brain like a bull rider. You have feelings/intuitions (instincts) to do things. You then use the frontal cortex (seat of the intellect) to help achieve those ends. The frontal cortex is only a small portion of the brain. Humans can come up with all kinds of fantastic intellectual productions (like ideologies) in service to these instincts.

"The intellect, as I've said, rides on top of the animal brain like a bull rider. You have feelings/intuitions (instincts) to do things. You then use the frontal cortex (seat of the intellect) to help achieve those ends. The frontal cortex is only a small portion of the brain. Humans can come up with all kinds of fantastic intellectual productions (like ideologies) in service to these instincts."

Sandy

***************************************************

First of all, to the best of my knowledge, the prefrontal cortex, not the entire frontal cortex, seems to be involved in "intellect." It seems to have derived mainly as a planning device for higher level motor activity. In that sense it is certainly involved in behavior. But I would not characterize it as being "the seat of the intellect." The posterior association areas are also involved it would seem in whatever "intellect," or cognition, or reasoning, or consciousness, or awareness is. You might read Kandel on this.

Principles of Neural Science; Kandel, Schwartz, Jessel; 4th edition, Ch. 19 on cognition and related topics.

In the frontal lobe, in the pre-central gyrus, one also finds the primary motor area. I don't believe most authorities would say that that part of the frontal lobe has a whole lot to do with intellect.
Nor does the pre-motor area of the frontal lobe.

The prefrontal cortex seems to be associated with, and perhaps to have evolved for, high level motor output that requires planning. The posterior association area, mostly located in the parietal lobe, seems to be associated with sensory input. There is Wernicke's, near to or perhaps a part of the posterior association area, to consider. It is associated with language acquisition. It might be considered a language acquisition "module." Or it might not.

All of these multimodal, high level association areas are likely in someway involved in intellect. Removal of the prefrontal cortex, as happens in a frontal lobotomy, does not entirely destroy "intellect" or consciousness, or awareness, etc.

Furthermore, there is considerable evidence of plasticity in the brain. Lost function in one part can often be made up by a process in which another part, with time, takes over. For example, paralyzed muscles might, with time, come to be controlled by other neurons than those which originally innervated the muscle, neurons that are not damaged.

I don't know that anyone really understands what intellect is, or where one finds the anatomical "seat" of it in the brain, IF one does. In any case, perhaps the real question is whether the bull rider, as you characterize it, is always itself rational. Certainly, in many cases it is not.

Tell me. You characterize yourself as a theist? A Christian, maybe? You believe in a soul? In an afterlife? If so, does the soul have a consciousness that remains in an afterlife, after death of the brain? Will consciousness of self survive death? Should I take literally the concept that in an afterlife one will see God? Or experience the senses of pleasure in heaven? Or the senses of suffering in hell? Would sensing heaven and hell, or seeing God, require consciousness, or intellect associated with consciousness?

Does the anatomical structure of the brain survive long after death? If not, then how does the soul and consciousness with it, survive death? If intellect is localizable to some anatomical part of the brain, does God put it there, and somehow take it back when one dies?

I don't have answers to these questions. I only have questions.

just sharing my bit of the brain global pulse check. personally on year two of post traumatic stress disorder recovery - great team of therapists and healers I must say - my dreams and inner world help me to center and then reach out safely into the world - gently as we go...

just sharing my bit of the brain global pulse check. personally on year two of post traumatic stress disorder recovery - great team of therapists and healers I must say - my dreams and inner world help me to center and then reach out safely into the world - gently as we go...

Re. 75, Friend_of_Deepak

As to the frontal cortex, this is my understanding of its function:

"The most typical neurologic term for functions carried out by the pre-frontal cortex area is Executive Function. Executive Function relates to abilities to differentiate among conflicting thoughts, determine good and bad, better and best, same and different, future consequences of current activities, working toward a defined goal, prediction of outcomes, expectation based on actions, and social "control" (the ability to suppress urges that, if not suppressed, could lead to socially unacceptable outcomes)."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prefrontal_cortex

All answers I give below are only my current opinion and I in no way can "prove" them. They are simply metaphysical speculation:

"You characterize yourself as a theist?" No, a monistic idealist.

"A Christian, maybe?" No

"You believe in a soul?" I like the term "spirit" better.

"In an afterlife?" Yes.

"If so, does the soul have a consciousness that remains in an afterlife, after death of the brain?" Yes.

"Will consciousness of self survive death?" Yes.

"Should I take literally the concept that in an afterlife one will see God?" I don't believe in a theistic God.

"Or experience the senses of pleasure in heaven? Or the senses of suffering in hell?" I am not a Christian.

"Would sensing heaven and hell, or seeing God, require consciousness, or intellect associated with consciousness?" Yes.

"Does the anatomical structure of the brain survive long after death?" No.

"If not, then how does the soul and consciousness with it, survive death?" The spirit exists independently of the body.

"If intellect is localizable to some anatomical part of the brain, does God put it there, and somehow take it back when one dies?" I don't know.

If your point is that consciousness/spirit exists outside the body and brain, I agree. But while it resides within the body, that body exerts a tremendous influence on our experience of conciousness. That is how sociobiology can be so enlightening about the consciousness and behavior of homo-sapiens. While we reside in these biological survival organisms, we tend to act like such.

------------------
SANDY: As to the frontal cortex, this is my understanding of its function:

"The most typical neurologic term for functions carried out by the pre-frontal cortex area is Executive Function. Executive Function relates to abilities to differentiate among conflicting thoughts, determine good and bad, better and best, same and different, future consequences of current activities, working toward a defined goal, prediction of outcomes, expectation based on actions, and social "control" (the ability to suppress urges that, if not suppressed, could lead to socially unacceptable outcomes)."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prefrontal_cortex
----------------

I think that is a real stretch as a description of what the function of the pre-frontal cortex is. Especially if Wikipedia is saying that the prefronal cortex somehow does all that *alone* and without the high level help of other parts of the brain. And especially if it is saying that such functions cannot ever be taken over, at least in
part, by other parts of the brain. It is a question of localizability of function.

The pre-frontal cortex is removed when a frontal lobotomy is done. Would you say that the "spirit," is localized there and is thus removed?

What do you do with this from Kandel's book:

"As might be expected, patients with damaged frontal lobes do not respond to environmental stimuli in the same way as normal individuals. Patients with damaged prefrontal association areas
achieve little in life - their behavior suggests that their ability to plan and organize everyday activities is diminished. Nevertheless, general intelligence, perception, and long-term memory are surprisingly intact."

This is consistent with the pre-frontal cortex being involved in high-level motor planning function, or behavior. But the lack of a pre-frontal cortex does not markedly affect intelligence. Nor does it abolish consciousness or long-term memory. It does seem to abolish working memory and make planning ahead much harder. But, the entire frontal lobe is essentially a part of the brain associated with output (motor function). Without input (sensory function) there is little or not output.

Furthermore, Kandel has a whole section entitled:

Interactions Among Association Areas Leads to Comprehension, Cognition, and Consciousness

In that section one will find such sentences as these:

"The interactions between the posterior and anterior association areas are critical in guiding behaviors. Neurons in the posterior association areas often also continue firing after the stimulus has ceased. They may also respond to a particular stimulus only when the stimulus is involved with a behavior, and not when the stimulus is not involved."

The posterior association areas are mainly in the parietal lobe, and are sensory in function (input). They are no where near the pre-frontal cortex.

And:

"The interactions between the posterior and anterior association areas determine whether an action will occur and what the temporal pattern of motor responses will be."

Also, in the section in Ch. 19 called, An Overall View, one finds:

"No part of the nervous system functions in the same way alone as it does in concert with other parts. When a part of the brain is removed in a lesion study, the behavior of the animal afterward is more a reflection of the adjusted capacities of the remaining brain than of the capacities of the part of the brain that was removed. It is unlikely therefore, that the neural basis of any cognitive
function - thought, memory, perception, and language - will be understood by focusing on one region of the brain without considering the relationship of that region to the others."

He then offers functional imaging studies to show, among other things, that more than one part or region of the brain is involved in higher level functions.

There is more that is pertinent to this discussion, but the chapter is long and I can't reproduce it all here.

If I were going to think in terms of a soul or a spirit somehow residing in the brain, I don't think I would localize it to the pre-fronal cortex only.

You do understand that the limbic system is also a multimodal, high-level association area or region (a third one), and that reward and punishment are somehow associated with it?

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SANDY: All answers I give below are only my current opinion and I in no way can "prove" them. They are simply metaphysical speculation:
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The answers below are intriguing. I have more questions about them below. You don't, of course, have to answer them.

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"You characterize yourself as a theist?" No, a monistic idealist.
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Monistic idealist? That is a new one on me. I will try to find out more about it. Maybe you want to elaborate on this?

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"A Christian,maybe?" No

"You believe in a soul?" I like the term "spirit" better.
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But the spirit has consciousness and exists in an afterlife, according to your answers below. So, how is it essentially different from the concept of a soul, except that there is no heaven and hell to be experienced?

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"In an afterlife?" Yes.

"If so, does the soul have a consciousness that remains in an afterlife, after death of the brain?" Yes.

"Will consciousness of self survive death?" Yes.
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So, the spirit is somehow "you"? It doesn't ever enter another human individuals brain, ala reincarnation, then? It is not somehow a universal spirit.

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"Should I take literally the concept that in an afterlife one will see God?" I don't believe in a theistic God.
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You are a deist? What kind of God do you believe in? Is the spirit God? Did God create the universe and leave?

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"Or experience the senses of pleasure in heaven? Or the senses of suffering in hell?" I am not a Christian.

"Would sensing heaven and hell, or seeing God, require consciousness, or intellect associated with consciousness?" Yes.

"Does the anatomical structure of the brain survive long after death?" No.

"If not, then how does the soul and consciousness with it, survive death?" The spirit exists independently of the body.
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And comes and goes from the body? And is located in the pre-frontal cortex and constrained by the limitations of the brain? And tries to keep irrational instincts under control?

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"If intellect is localizable to some anatomical part of the brain, does God put it there, and somehow take it back when one dies?" I don't know.
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But it comes and goes from the brain and has the ability to independently exist. And the spirit is "you" or "the conscious self"?

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SANDY: If your point is that consciousness/spirit exists outside the body and brain, I agree. But while it resides within the body, that body exerts a tremendous influence on our experience of consciousness. That is how sociobiology can be so enlightening about the consciousness and behavior of homo-sapiens. While we reside in these biological survival organisms, we tend to act like such.
---------------

And this, seemingly religious idea, is to be found in sociobiology? If so, it is not really a science in any sense. I didn't find any reference to such an idea in the limited reading I have done about
sociobiology.

I am still curious about much of what you have written. I might try to read more about studies in sociology itself, concerning the dominance of ambition over other attributes of the mind. That point should be addressable by sociological studies, I would think.

Based on the further information in this post, it would seem that you believe that the spirit doesn't do a very efficient job of bullriding the instinctual behavior of ambition. And that the spirit itself in no way has evolved to keep up with and be able to control this drive for status. And that genetics in no way permanently alters the spirit and yet genetics controls the body and the physical brain, which limits the spirit. It does seem rather hard for me to imagine how the spirit can be trapped in and limited by the brain, and how the spirit comes and goes.

But, it doesn't seem impossible. When it comes to religious beliefs it seems that almost anything is possible.

Re. 76, Friend_of_Deepak

No, I have never heard of Kandel or his material. I am open to whatever the latest scientific consensus is. It could be that some information I learned a while ago is now outdated. What is your point concerning all of this brain physiology?

"The pre-frontal cortex is removed when a frontal lobotomy is done. Would you say that the "spirit," is localized there and is thus removed?"

I have no idea.I just prefer the term "spirit". It has, to me, a less religious feel to it. I like to think that the spirit is the real self when not residing in an earthly animal body.

"So, the spirit is somehow "you"? It doesn't ever enter another human individuals brain, ala reincarnation, then?"

I lean in that direction.

"You are a deist? What kind of God do you believe in? Is the spirit God?"

'Monistic Idealism is a metaphysical theory that states that everything in the world depends on consciousness for its existence. It is a monistic theory because it holds that there is only type of thing in the universe, and a form of idealism because it holds that one thing to be consciousness'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monistic_idealism

"And this, seemingly religious idea, is to be found in sociobiology? If so, it is not really a science in any sense."

Of course not! I was just giving my opinion. I would bet many evolutionary biological scientists are atheistic materialists.

"Based on the further information in this post, it would seem that you believe that the spirit doesn't do a very efficient job of bullriding the instinctual behavior of ambition."

It would depend on the individual, but in general, yes. I look at the body as animalistic survival machine the spirit inhabits on this plane of existence for learning purposes. What those purposes are I don't know.

Sandy,

I think it is safe to say that Kandel is one of the most respected authorities on neurophysiology. His textbooks, such as the one I mentioned, are often used to teach healthcare professionals, including medical doctors.

More below.

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SANDY: No, I have never heard of Kandel or his material. I am open to whatever the latest scientific consensus is. It could be that some information I learned a while ago is now outdated. What is your point concerning all of this brain physiology?
--------------------------

I responded to your idea that the pre-frontal cortex is the seat of intellect. I don't buy that. I would say that intelligence is a more generalizable function of the brain.

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"The pre-frontal cortex is removed when a frontal lobotomy is done. Would you say that the "spirit," is localized there and is thus removed?"

SANDY: I have no idea.I just prefer the term "spirit". It has, to me, a less religious feel to it. I like to think that the spirit is the real self when not residing in an earthly animal body.
--------------

One might wonder how you see the "bullrider" that you postulate. I take it that the "bullrider" is the spirit? Does the spirit have the attribute of intelligence then also? Of reasoning ability? And it is never irrational? But it is not heritable or affected by evolution? And it is not particularly localizable to any structural region of the brain?

When evolutionary biologists emphasize modularity of the mind, and they *do* seem to emphasize it, they seem to view a module as something akin to an inheritable trait. And they seem to want to correlate a module of the mind, with a module of the brain, with a single attribute of the mind, and perhaps with a structural(anatomic) location in the brain for this attribute of the mind. For example, they seem (I could be wrong) to think of Wernicke's area as not merely a language acquisition area, but as an anatomically and physiologically distinct, inheritable module of the brain as well.

If intelligence is one of the "modules" of the mind, I do not think it is so localizable in terms of regions of the brain.

As regards intelligence, in fact, I have always wondered if (g) has more to do with some very basic physiological parameters, rather than being an attribute located in some discrete module of the brain, or of the mind. We seem to agree that it is substantially inheritable (not exclusively inheritable). And yet the spirit is not subject to inheritability?

In any case, it has always seemed to me that (g) might reflect something like the speed of propagation of an *average* action potential, a very basic neurological function. One thinks of action potentials as being all-or-none. One thinks of a propagated action potential as being very fast, and yet of finite speed. There is no reason I know of, though, to believe that the speed of propagation of an action potential is exactly the same in everyone. It isn't even the same in every neuron. And the fact that the speed would be dependent on enzymatic function, which in turn is inheritable, would lead one to expect that the average speed of a neural impulse is not the same in every individual.

Again, I am saying that the average speed of propagation of a neural impulse is probably not the same in every individual, and is almost certainly inheritable. Would a faster average neural impulse not increase what is measured by IQ or (g), esp. since almost all such tests have time limits?

Besides the speed of propagation of action potentials, as far as I can see, there are many other inheritable basic molecular biologic/neurophysiologic parameters that might be related to general intelligence. One might wonder if neural refractory periods are exactly the same in everyone and how that would affect general intelligence. Refractory periods are also affected by enzymatic function and therefore by genes. And one could go on.

But the point is that such basic neural parameters would affect the *general* ability of the brain/of the entire N.S. to function. One notes that IQ testing correlates with (g) correlates with reaction times. No? Reaction times depend, among other things, on the speed of neural conduction.

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"So, the spirit is somehow "you"? It doesn't ever enter another human individuals brain, ala reincarnation, then?"

SANDY: I lean in that direction.
-------------------------------

If the spirit only enters one body, and somehow becomes "you," then what happens to "you" in an afterlife?

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"You are a deist? What kind of God do you believe in? Is the spirit God?"

SANDY: 'Monistic Idealism is a metaphysical theory that states that everything in the world depends on consciousness for its existence. It is a monistic theory because it holds that there is only type of thing in the universe, and a form of idealism because it holds that one thing to be consciousness'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monistic_idealism
---------------

I had already read that. Perhaps I misunderstood you in the past postings. I thought you had written something alluding to "God," as if you believed in one. It surprises me to find that you are monistic when you seem to see a mind-body duality, with the body being subject to instincts and the spirit being the rational bullrider.

---------------------------------
"And this, seemingly religious idea, is to be found in sociobiology? If so, it is not really a science in any sense."

Of course not! I was just giving my opinion. I would bet many evolutionary biological scientists are atheistic materialists.
----------------------------------

Like Dawkins. But it may be an oxymoron to call them "evolutionary biological scientists." It is not clear to me that evol. psy. is a science at all.

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"Based on the further information in this post, it would seem that you believe that the spirit doesn't do a very efficient job of bullriding the instinctual behavior of ambition."

SANDY: It would depend on the individual, but in general, yes. I look at the body as animalistic survival machine the spirit inhabits on this plane of existence for learning purposes. What those purposes are I don't know.
----------

Well, it isn't as if one encounters such beliefs on every street corner of the Western world. You obviously think for yourself. Or maybe you have read deeply into Eastern religion or philosophy, and adopted it?

"Does the spirit have the attribute of intelligence then also? Of reasoning ability? And it is never irrational? But it is not heritable or affected by evolution? And it is not particularly localizable to any structural region of the brain?"

What type of intelligence spirit would have, and any its details are unknown to me. Remember, this is pure speculation on my part.

"As regards intelligence, in fact, I have always wondered if (g) has more to do with some very basic physiological parameters,"

Arthur Jensen, one of most prominent researchers on intelligence, believes so. You may be interested in his book THE G FACTOR.

"And yet the spirit is not subject to inheritability?"

Who knows? Where would you even look to try to find out?

"If the spirit only enters one body, and somehow becomes "you," then what happens to "you" in an afterlife?"

I believe that the spirit enters and forms a union with the body at or near birth. When the body dies, it exits.

"I thought you had written something alluding to "God," as if you believed in one. It surprises me to find that you are monistic when you seem to see a mind-body duality, with the body being subject to instincts and the spirit being the rational bullrider."

I do believe in a God, just not a theistic one. The monistic believes that God is absolute, ie, all that is. Any subsets of that absolute (like us) can experience any type of dualistic experience imaginable. But that would be, ultimately, an illusion. When I speak of sociobiological phenomenon, that refers only to the little sub-reality or dimension of biological life on this planet. But we are here experiencing lives in these biological survival machines, so it helps to try and figure it out. I think sociobiology/EP can help. It has me.

"maybe you have read deeply into Eastern religion or philosophy,and adopted it?"

I've read a lot of metaphysical philosophy, but not much eastern. I've never "adopted" any of it, but believe things that I've reasoned through. It continues...the never ending quest.

Sandy,

There really isn't much I can say about your beliefs. I am an agnostic in what I regard as the truest sense of the word. I am without knowledge when it comes to the question of God and related topics. That means to me that I can give the benefit of the doubt to just about anyone's beliefs, from strong atheism to theism to "monistic idealism." There is no way I know to scientifically test or falsify any such beliefs.

Nevertheless, as a biologist, I tend to think of the mind and of consciousness as an "emergent property" of the brain. When teaching about the higher levels of function in neurophysiology one
tends to wave one's hands a lot, and admit, in the end, that one does not know all the answers.

I am still wondering about the idea that ambition is the primary motivator of man, trumping all other attributes. I don't really want to believe it, but it may be true. That question, I would think, would be testable, and in the realm of sociology alone. There are many fields of study of which I know very little, and sociology is definitely one of them.

One of the most interesting (to me at least) discussions I have had on the Internet. But I still think it is mainly a garbage dump.