Here's a discussion in which Deepak Chopra answers the question, excerpted from an article written by David Beers, author of "Blue Sky Dream":

"You need accept no limits, physical or financial. Noting that the title of one of his books is "Creating Affluence: Wealth Consciousness in the Field of All Possibilities," I tell Chopra I was raised by my Catholic mother to curb material longing, to remember Christ's teachings about the rich man and the eye of the needle. Growing up blue-collar in the Depression era, this teaching no doubt afforded her people some comfort. Chopra replies that "wealth is an expression of the spirit" and that because those without money always obsess about getting it, "the solution is to help everybody have wealth." But is there a conflict between desiring wealth, and seeking God? "Why should material success be an impediment to spirituality?" he responds. "Keep increasing your desires until nothing satisfies you except God. Wanting material wealth is part of that."

Reference:
(Page 1 of 3)
"It's all good: The appeal of Deepak Chopra"
http://archive.salon.com/people/feature/2001/05/10/allgood/index1.html

PS: More understanding and greater awareness can be had from reading the above well-written article.

Here's a discussion in which Deepak Chopra answers the question, excerpted from an article written by David Beers, author of "Blue Sky Dream":

"You need accept no limits, physical or financial. Noting that the title of one of his books is "Creating Affluence: Wealth Consciousness in the Field of All Possibilities," I tell Chopra I was raised by my Catholic mother to curb material longing, to remember Christ's teachings about the rich man and the eye of the needle. Growing up blue-collar in the Depression era, this teaching no doubt afforded her people some comfort. Chopra replies that "wealth is an expression of the spirit" and that because those without money always obsess about getting it, "the solution is to help everybody have wealth." But is there a conflict between desiring wealth, and seeking God? "Why should material success be an impediment to spirituality?" he responds. "Keep increasing your desires until nothing satisfies you except God. Wanting material wealth is part of that."

Reference:
(Page 1 of 3)
"It's all good: The appeal of Deepak Chopra"
http://archive.salon.com/people/feature/2001/05/10/allgood/index1.html

PS: More understanding and greater awareness can be had from reading the above well-written article.

The Bishop Carlton Pearsons went from rags to riches and then from riches to rags. It did not change his devotion. What changed was an increase in his compassion.
I think we all know the Gita mentions inner renunciation as a path.
Do we want the Giver of Gifts or the gifts themselves?

"Abundance is mine saith the Lord" I especially Like the part about "everybody having wealth"

If I wanted to create a God, would I want him to have wealth? well, if he was God then he could create anything he desired. All is well

There is truly nothing better than watching someone you love have there dreams come true seeing the look of wonder and awakening in there eyes... priceless

ps i now realize y folk use different names.

Love

Hello Burcin and Everyone,

You question is a little confusing. You ask, "Is it right for someone who does not want to live attached to materialism to attain wealth?

I think if you are in the business of attaining wealth you are attached to it otherwise you wouldn't be investing the time and energy into attaining it and keeping it. You may not crumble up and die if you lose it but still that is no big deal....look at the folks who lost all their possessions in the fires in Calif. this week, they were devastated by their loss but they will go on, they will rebuild as best they can, so although they are attached they are also unattached...remarkable...is the human spirit.

I have noticed that today there is a new "line of thought" going around in the "spiritual community" where it is now being preached that "God wants us to be wealthy" or God wants us to be abundant in every way including financially" it seems to have started with the books on how to create affluence in your life to the book the "Secret," and now I think there is a preacher named Joel Olseen, and others, with his mega Church who have jumped on the affluence ball to keep it rolling...I think anything and anyone who sells or preaches affluence is going to sell, period, and if you put the word spirit and god in front or in back it will be a double sell in my opinion.

The only thing I know for sure that will create affluence in one's life is EDUCATION. If you have the ability and desire to get yourself an Education you are on your way to afflunence. Without an education it is very difficult, without an education your chances for afflunence are slim, by affluence I am talking financial wealth which makes material wealth possible.

So, in closing I guess if what they mean by "God wants us to be abundant" means "God wants you to be able to get an education where you will be more likely to be able to be abundant then I will agree with them."

A wonderful example of people not being attached to their material possessions was demonstrated this week in the Calif. fires. Many individuals lost all their material possessions and were deeply devastated by that but their focus was on the fact that they and their family were unharmed and would go on...a wonderful example of being attached, yet unattached.

ruth

Wonderful perception Ruth,
My personal view is that first breath, every morning starts the days classes..

Love

Why would someone not have everything he or she desires? For me I think I would have to say, guilt.
Maybe I feel I don't worthy..hummmmm something to think about, my class has began for the day...

Ms Cevik you earlier said," After reading 'Life after Death' by Deepak Chopra, I have been infatuated with learning more about improving myself and recognizing my true self and...."

And now you ask what Deepak has already answered in his book,"Creating Affluence: Wealth Consciousness in the Field of All Possibilities."

Perhaps you have to read this book too to improve upon yourself.

If you believe that there is life after death, then everything is possible and right in this world - even though it is utterly wrong by any moral standard and belies the human intelligence, example in point is the question you ask.

Now tell me, if someone who does not want to live attached to materialism and continues accumulating wealth for himself, is he not an hypocrite, a fake, a bogus, a phony man? Does he live his life by what he teaches?

The irony is there are millions with lower intelligence who are duped by the teachings of such learned and spiritually enlightened men. You must have wondered yourself in contradictions, otherwise you would not have been asking this question.

I hope you read this before this comment is deleted.

Ruth and Tammy, you both got it right and you both are honest:

The questions is confusing and guilt ridden.

But to the teachers of health, wealth and spiritual consciousness it's wonderful to hoard wealth for themselves while preaching love, compassion and peace; and peace, compassion and love. And not let their mouths but their '....'
talking.

Now who's smart enough to fill the gap in the last sentence above?

#8 It's just a question or three, Rahul. Burcin didn't write that they were anything other than an exercise for all of us.

It's about motive as far as I am concerned. Sherry gives a good example why none of us should make judgement. The most selfish attainer can become the world's philanthropist before he dies. We all know it is harder for a camel to pass through Jerusalem's gate fully laden and that metaphor. But it's never over until it's over. So, I would keep an open mind even as to motive.

Ed.

So Ed, you "would keep an open mind even as to motive."

Like the motive of Deepak Chopra:

"Why should material success be an impediment to spirituality?" asks Deepak Chopra. "Keep increasing your desires until nothing satisfies you except God. Wanting material wealth is part of that." he says further.

One might add, keep increasing your desires for greed, power, lust, sex, women until no greed, no power, no lust, no sex, no woman satisfies you as you have become too old by that time and you pray God for expiation of all your sins, all your hypocrisy, all your guilt, and all hurt you caused others for your selfish motives. Right?

As long as you don't commit a crime by breaking the laws of your land, you can hoard any amount of wealth and be a staunch materialist indulging in pleasures of material wealth--luxury home, car, travel, food, gambling, sex etc, and still be "spiritual" in the your own definition or rationalization. Th rules might differ from say USA to China, of what constitutes a crime in hoarding wealth. Even if you break the laws of your land, you can still be "spiritual" in your prison cell by contemplating on life after death and God, you can read books which can guide you into an afterlife of pleasures .

Yup! thats right Rahul, I am gonna call you
"Captain Smartie Pants!" Really after you have done all THAT BS, you DO look for somethin else. YOURSELF! and your here! your looking, I'd say you found it!

"Selfish motives" you say, HELL YA! you are the only self you have. If YOU don't find out who that YOU is who else will?

Love

What BS, Tammy?

I would agree with you that if you do not find yourself who you are, no one can find it for you. They can only help you, rightly or wrongly.

Instead of wandering around the concrete jungle searching for a woman and some money wouldn't it be far better to seek your true transcendant self.
Todd

If you happen to come across all of those simultaneously then all the power to you.
Todd

Tammy, I'm sorry. Perhaps I did not make myself clear.

I was simply trying to extend thoughts of Deepak Chopra in #11, and was wondering whether it was what he meant by hoarding wealth and be spiritual and not materialistic at the same time.

If still not clear, perhaps someone like real or fake Diablo, or perhaps Heather who has praiseworthy command over the English language can explain it to you in an interesting way.

BS= bullshit
I suppose doing all the pavement poundin you spoke of really is not BS, I guess we don't know this till we do it..( learn it )
all that" seeking" helps you find out who you are.

Love

W. Y. Evans-Wentz published about 80 precepts of Tibetan Buddhism from really old texts. I agree with, or understand about 79. But this one: "Affluence, being the manure and water for spiritual growth, is not to be avoided." That's a little hard to grasp. Yet, we have "That which cometh of itself, being a divine gift, is not to be avoided."

OH! save it Rahul! I got your number!
Love that name!

Todd, thanks for the interesting observations in #15 and #16.

One need not have lust for money, sex, women and power at the same time, but one could make the best of the circumstances and at the same time be very spiritual preaching love, peace, compassion and awareness of consciousness and project oneself onto the world as a person of heightened wisdom.

Tammy, thanks for defining BS in #18. Here in India we always think it stands for the degree of Bachelor in Science!

btw, I think you misread me in #11. I was not advocating lust for money, sex, greed and women. I was just pondering on what Deepak advocates and was trying to understand his teachings.

So I do not know who deserves the title of
"Captain Smartie Pants!"

I do appreciate your zeal and your honesty. Whatever you say, seems to be coming from your heart.

Dear Burcin,

You and You alone can answer this question. Do not doubt yourself. Just go with the flow, appreciate the little things that come to you, appreciate the greater things that come to you.

You cannot go wrong by always trusting yourself.

Much love,

Mieke

Dear Burcin:

Just as it is the natural tendency of the body to maintain and sustain its physical health and well being, that tendency and order is also inherent in our financial health.

We live in a generous universe. Once we accept that nothing "out there" has the capacity to make us happy or sad, and love isn't something that's given or taken away by another, but is created from within, the "rightness or wrongness" of attaining wealth really solves itself.

Like Meike states, we appreciate the little things and the big things by going with the flow.

Love
bonnie

In defense of wealth, it could be that Christ was speaking esoterically as well. That is to say, to the Gnostics, the contemplatives, the yogis, in his community. One's wealth is also interior; in that we value our intellectual concepts, and sense of right and wrong, and relative knowledge, etc. It all has to be given up in a moment, when One Desire is forged.

Oh sorry. I was referring to a posting that quoted Jesus as saying that a wealthy man could no more get into heaven than a camel could go through the eye of a needle.

#26 Hi Sherry, you are allowed to mention my name, *smile*
As I have understood one interpretation, a camel was laden with goods on both sides. The 'needle' was a name for a narrow gate entering the walled city of Jerusalem. Traders would remove the worldly goods to enable the camel to pass through. I thinking the purported saying of Jesus was referring to a rich man's attachment to his wealth. "Give up all that you have and follow the path I am taking."....... The young man, though keen, went away sorrowing, for he had much wealth.

I know the feeling!

Edmund

Just one last thought pertaining to the words of Deepak Chopra in the #1 post. It may seem a bizarre philosophy to us, and it may seem that Mr. Chopra is catering to middle class Americans, but he did not invent the concepts expressed by his words.
One more of W.Y Evans-Wentz's published sayings; "Obscuring passions, being the means of reminding one of Divine Wisdom (which giveth deliverence from them), are not to be avoided (if rightly used by one to taste life to the full and thereby reach disillusionment)".
By "obscuring passions" I take it to mean those that obscure divine light. Any way, these precepts were written before the year 1000 AD and transmitted orally before that. They came out of India; from Tilopa, to Naropa, to Marpa, to Milarepa.

"He who has not passed through the inferno of his passions has not overcome them"- Jung.

Let those whose passion is wealth first pass through its inferno.

Of course there are rare those who have already really gone beyond everything and yet can create/enjoy them in playfulness, hats off to them. They are really the masters.

hello Burcin,
can you allow for both desires to exist in you?

I do.

love,
~ Kate

"It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven"

Spiritual develepmont is the process of losing baggage. It is about transcending everything including the egotistical self for the truth of reality.

Many people embark on spiritual discovery to gain or uncover, find something extra. They are totally delluded. If you are seriously interested in finding out the truth of reality and realising God then be prepared to suffer and to give up more than you have ever given up before.

When one can sit in complete stillness with nothing except god exsisting in complete bliss then you have reached the end of your search and you will never desire another thing because you will know that you are all things and have always been all things.

Regards

Simon_Freejohn: Your post summed up for me what we humans should learn. Thanks.

Simon_Freejohn: Your post summed up for me what we humans should learn. Thanks.

Dear Simon,
When you can sit (or stand :) in the midst of any situation, and let all manner of feelings, desires, intentions exist - neither pushing away nor denying,
just
allowing
(and taking actions as one feels necessary)

to me,
this is a kind of freedom
which provides
(imo)
happiness
and peace

love,
~ Kate

It is said, that those whom accumulate "wealth" live in "fear" of poverty... and, that when wealth becomes a driving "force" they lose site of Self from self...

Interesting...

Love,
North

Ah, dear Kate, always two sides to the coin.

Now we must set it spinning. ;)

Instead of materailism, travel!

Do what you do, obtain wealth and don't feel ashamed. Shame is when you do things you know you shouldn't, not for honest failures and successes.

If you do not obtain, don't think somebody else is getting it.

When you get it, give if it pleases you.

Your question is tricky. When someone does not want to live by the dictates of materialism is he automatically spiritual? Is a spiritual person automatically an ascetic, spurning everything material? Are spirituality and material wealth mutually exclusive?

There have been examples of great kings who were recognised as great spiritual masters. Janak, the father of Lord Ram's consort Seeta, was one. Ashoka the great emperor was a devout Buddhist. There were many others. Many modern day philanthropists are wealthy and give away significant amounts in charity. (If all charitable people were penniless how would any charitable work be done?)
And of course there were some ascetics who could not free themselves of desires as hard as they tried.

The philosophy of Gita says that it is the attatchment to wealth that is the problem. Sometimes a lack of money results in greater attatchment to it. So does an all consuming passion for it in a wealthy individual.
Buddha recommended a middle path. In his view complete lust and total renunciation were both indicative of attatchment.

The concept of dharma says that you lead a life that you were born into to the best of your ability. That may be earning money or dealing with material things day in and day out. It may equally be a life of frugality and penance depending on your duties and responsibilities. But if you are not obsessed by material things and remain detatched you can be spiritual at the same time.
There will be those rare individuals who have the calling to renounce everything and devote their lives to spiritual endeavours and do so willingly and with grace. It is the right thing for them.

I am afraid there is no 'one size fits all' in spirituality.

In India, it is very natural and common for people to pray for material wealth. Goddess Laksmi(wealth) is a household deity. There is contradiction whatsoever in this practice that is integral to spiritual traditions of India.

..

Lakshmi or Mahalaxmi is the Hindu goddess of wealth, fortune, love and beauty, the lotus flower and fertility. Representations of Lakshmi (or Shri) are found in Jain and Buddhist monuments, in addition to Hindu temples. Generally thought of as the personification of material fortune and prosperity.

She is the consort of Vishnu and married his incarnations Rama (in her incarnation as Sita), Krishna (as Rukmini or Radha) and Venkateshwara (as Alamelu). In addition to Rukmini, however, she was also thought to have incarnated as the milkmaid Radha, Krishna's youthful lover prior to his marriage to Rukmini. In Vaishnava traditions, She is believed to be the Mother Goddess and the Shakti of Narayan.

Goddess Laksmi is the deity of wealth, affluence an ruling power.

from wikipedia

Ref 39: I mean "there is NO contradiction..."

Dear Hyp,

In a country that is heavily populated, like India has been for a long time, wealth is one of the few things that enhances survival. Survival precedes the development of spirituality. I don't a contradiction in praying for wealth in India: no survival, no spirituality.

But in a country like the US, which has always been relatively underpopulated, and started with, then continued to amass, a high share of the wealth of the planet per occupant, where many people can survive decently well on much less than they already have, I do see a contradiction.

love, Heath

Goddess Laxmi has been worshiped in India since ages. Even during the phases when India was the richest among all nations -- worshiped by all socio-economic classes and castes right from the king, educators, traders to the menial worker. The situation hasn't changed. Even the multi billionaire (Mukesh?) Ambani (Among Top 10 richest people in world), started off his new business project, a couple of days ago, by praying to the mother Goddess in a Temple.

Visit any Indian(Hindu) business office, you are most likely to see a portrait of Goddess Laxmi on the wall. I can tell you with confidence, even the Indian American Business(wo)men {also the IT professionals, also the spiritual masters} in USA worship Laxmi diligently.

Ya, that's just the point -- wealth in India has always been relatively inequitably distributed, and that's true in the majority of overpopulated cultures. Those who worshiped Laskhmi, in terms of percentage of overall population, would be have been more likely to be deprived of resources and options. The US is only now just beginning to see the crystallization of a large deprived underclass; paralleling that development is a rise, in the US, of seriously ostentatious materialism, expressed in ways that were unthinkable only two decades ago. The two may be linked.

I'm outta here for now, Hyp, too tired to think or type with much sense.

love, Heath

Hello Kate,

I recently spent some time with a guy who is incredibly aware of the divine. He lives completely like a monk and is probably one of the realest people I know. His talk on spirituality for me is completely selfless and direct without any stereotyped pretense about himself.

He said something to me that is so prefound to not only myself but to just about everybody who posts on this blog that I have watched and read over the last couple of years. I was chatting with him on different spiritual issues; and one thing I have noticed about people like him is that you can't hide anything from them. Because people like him have totaly transcended almost all of their stuff they can immeadiatly recognise trates in others that they have gotten rid of.

He said to me "Philosophy is useless to you unless you are ready to use it"

I know exactly what he means by that and if you are ready you can see what he is getting at with that statement too.

Regards

Simon

Neetu,

From the different permutations of the Egotistical self there are "No one size fits all for spirituality"

From a totaly realised point of view there is Nothing but God. All ideas and practices go completely out of the window at this point and one realises that all concepts of God are simply possible because of the reality of the divine rather than the possibilities becoming a divine reality for (To Qoute DC) an individual probability amplitude. Once this becomes apparent to one then there is no need for subscription to any form of dogma or line of religion or thought. The divine is always in your point of focus and is none shifting, totaly outside of the boundries of human conceptual thought and is the very life that you are without any need for question.

Regards

Simon

Simon,
Thanks for your thoughts.
Yes of course. For an enlightened individual such conundrums do not exist. All roads lead to God, in fact there is nothing else but God (or supreme consciousness; whichever way one wants to look at it). The paths are points of beginning from wherever you are. That is why there are so many. We are all at such different stations when we begin a spiritual journey. As we progress further and further however, all differences dissolve. Because ultimately there is only one reality, only one truth. That is why even science, which I think is one of the paths, is also going to reach there one day.

Regards
Neetu

Materialism as a philosphy aka naturalism, scientifc materialsim, physicalism etc... is not OK? (with spirituality)

But, "materialsm"(of wealth, pleausres and desires) is OK? (with spirituality)

Isn't spirtuality more about 'practice' rather than philosphy or metaphysics?

Advaita or nonduality : All is One

The World is Many -- The World is One (at the same time)

I undersand this at some level. So is that it?

I can now go on doing whatever pleases me with this knowledge?

If I had a experience of Oneness one night, am I enligtened forever?

just some thoughts...

Neetu,

Well said. I remember Adi Da saying one time "God is not another" which I thought was such a great way to sum up what we are talking about here.

Qoute FODC
"If I had a experience of Oneness one night, am I enligtened forever?"

My answer to that question in the time I have to answer it (Even though time is an Illusion)is a ZEN qoute and it goes like this.

"Before enlightenment; Chop Sticks and bring water from the well. After Enlightenment; Chop Sticks and bring water from the well"

Regards

Simon

Friend_of_Deepak ,

I think what you are getting at with all of this is. Can a person be spiritually aware and at the same time be a selfish and basically an ((ahole))???

Yes I am living proof!

LOL.

I remember when I lived in Canada and I spoke at length with an enlightened teacher about this subject and he said to me "You know Adolf Hitler had strong spiritual attributes even though he is the figure head of such evil. For example his ability to influence so many people was due to him developing the Voice Chakra. You will meet many people who have developed this Chakra who can use their voice to influence the minds of anyone because their voice is so clear and radiant with spiritual energy that it must be true what they say"

When we listen to the voice of Deepak Chopra; the same Chakra has been developed spiritually to deliver his message so eloquently and resonate with the energy of the spirit. This is a form of magic because you can not see the thing that gives such energy and power to the voice and in fact you can not see the voice; but all the same it is there and you can be aware of it. The various Chakras within the body system can be tuned in to and allowed to grow and develop giving us extraordinary insight and sensuous interaction with the spirit. I was once in Vancouver with my uncle waiting at the bus station to collect somebody who was coming to stay with us from the Ching Hai association. There were about forty people getting off of this bus and we had not seen a picture of this man; so did not know what he looked like. As soon as he stepped off of the bus we both recognised him immediately and he was quite impressed.

How did we recognise a person that we had never met before?

Because he was involved in a deep spiritual practice and close to Master Ching Hai. His whole being just glowed with a spiritual resonance. When the physical being becomes intimately involved with the spirit like this; the physical representation of the being begins to shine with the energy of the spirit because the spirit is the internal focus of the mind at this stage not the body.

Regards

Simon

Post 47,
Friend of Deepak,
'Materialism as a philosphy aka naturalism, scientifc materialsim, physicalism etc... is not OK? (with spirituality). But, "materialsm"(of wealth, pleausres and desires) is OK? (with spirituality)'

When materialism as a 'philosophy' posits that there is nothing else but matter, it is not compatible with spirituality. Materialistic 'behaviour' however does not necessarily presume absence of spirit. Spirituality itself accepts the presence of matter, though it sees matter as perishable and impermenant.
Whether one can indulge in material pleasures and still be spiritual? I tried to ponder that question rather inelegantly, in a previous post.

Many of those who call themselves spiritual are so at an intellectual level. They agree with the concept of spirituality. Holding those beliefs does not stop them from living a life of modest pleasures if it does not harm themselves or anybody else in the process.
Individuals who are practising spiritualists, who are fewer, find that restricting their sense pleasures is more conducive to their spiritual practice. The restrictions can vary from minimal to quite rigorous as the practice advances. (Therefore there has always been a different code of conduct for general public and for priests or monks in most traditions)

We all find ourselves in different places along this spectrum, from pure materialists to intellectual spiritualists to actual practising spiritualists. Behaviours therefore vary widely.
It goes without saying however that for any real spiritual progress to occur one has to be a practising spiritualist not merely an intellectual one. To what degree one practises is upto that individual I think.

Post 48,
Simon,
That is a great quote.
Cheers.

Neetu

I agree with you but I also agree with Harb in #29, that those who have gone beyond the 'attachment' to wealth and can "create in playfulness are the the masters." Truly successful people seem to know that their success comes from within and as such are not afraid to lose it. Whereas people who think success(wealth) comes from "out there" are insecure and will always be defensive, insecure and possessive.

It's the meaning/attachment to wealth(materialism) that is the important distinction here, or so it seems to me.

Love
bonnie

Dear Simon,
One day even philosophy will cease to hold allure.
Until that day, it's wonderful to be here sharing ideas and experiences, and - just being in each other's presence.
~ Kate

Hi Bonnie,
it's fun to be playful, and maybe that is what the world needs more of
(besides love)

:)
~ Kate

Dear Kate,

You can be in my presence anytime love xx

In reality life is for living; but your lifestyle will one day catch up with you if you don't treat it right. Karma is an amazing invention, It may even be the law of the universe.

Simon xx

Regarding posts #46 & 48: There shall be no strange god in thee - Psalms 81:10 That is to say, God is no stranger to thee.
Just as one who wants to find the gold dubloons in a Spanish ship that went down in the Atlantic 200 years ago, we already know what we are looking for.

There is not answer for such questions, like many others. There can only be only own judgments and that will lead to different view points and make you more knowledgable. Keep searching and learnin, there is no end.

Kate

I think the more one can open up the heart center, the more playful and joyous one becomes.
(I'm getting there--slowly but surely)

Love
bonnie

I remember the time of 9/11 when I was living at that time in Canada. The teacher of the spiritual group I was involved with was watching the News with me. I remember asking him "Why do these things happen; such terrible things why?"

He simply said "This is what people do"

Much later he said in regrads to the 9/11 attacks... "Imagine the hell for those who done this... to be for a time aware of the physical reasoning of what one had done in life and yet to be dead and aware of the truth of reality in death... This must surely be hell"

It took a long time before I could fully understand what my teacher was speaking about. I met an old man not far from where I work and he was dying from cancer. I had known him in old age and health and now I saw him in old age and the prequal to his death from Cancer. He said to me "You know the toughest part of dying is the part of you that has never changed since I was a boy. It is not an old man. It is not even sick. It is just me in this old body and it is that which cries always and every night at the loss of my life soon to come"

I think that when he died his awareness would have overcome the grief associated with the location of the physical self. But What about those guys whom flew the aeroplanes into the twin towers.... death is not the end of conciousness, I am pretty sure of this. Imagine having to be aware of the truth of the divine in death after you have so wrecklessly ended so much happiness and experience of god?

this must be a sure defenition of hell. I do not believe in hell as it has been so often written about; but I believe that conciousness, whether it be in life or beyond life can be hell for you by the law of Karma.

I am sure you have thought about this too

Regards

Simon