Interesting post, Dr. Avtar Singh. I will see the video and come back with questions and comments, but for now let us consider the component of acquiring fame as per your following statement:

...any pursuit of matter or material acquisitions such as wealth, power, and fame must also be inflicted with divergence, entropy (suffering and irreversibility), and increasing complexity, uncertainty, and chaos of (Darwinian) evolution.
--------

Let us assume Dr. Deepak Chopra is famous to the limit that 50 thousand people in the world sing his praises and are connected with one another through their consciousness, as we all are connected in such a way according to Dr. Chopra, and no physical effort is required in this process. It is assumed to be through some mysterious process of mind waves etc that are tuned to the exact frequency of consciousness. Dr. Chopra often gives an example of a radio tuned to a radio station emitting radio waves of a certain frequency - the mind being a mere receiver like a radio.

Now consider Dr Chopra becomes doubly famous when 100 thousand people are connected through their consciousness. How will this increase the entropy of the world? In fact through connectedness, more order will prevail and so the entropy must decrease.

Your answer and comments please, Dr. Avtar Singh.

PS: More questions to follow.

In your previous post Avatar says

"Moreover, the above very facts were realized by the Buddha who had access to all the wealth (without any need for any effort for its accumulation) since he realized the Futility of the Pursuit of the Material Happiness."

I ask you again which I did before, What's stopping you from becoming Buddha who ultimately left all the materialistic happiness for the universal ?????

You once replied as "Remember only people with ego find ego in others".

By your definition of duality, there has to be a subtle desire to be wealthy, which is complemented by similar efforts to prove the uselessness of possesing it. After all you are living in the mighty USA, right?

You also said that there is nothing wrong in sharing your thoughts if you have any, But I see no such efforts by Nanak or Buddha.. I think their thoughts could have been mere reactions to questions raised by people...

What's your original question that is not borrowed? I value that much much over the answer to it. The quest has to be personal for that is your own struggle with HIM 'Cos you are ultimately HIM right?

Good stuff Dr. Singh.

Peace

dear Avtar,
Awareness ... breaks the spell.
:)
love,
~ Kate

Dear Avtar,

Revelations, huh? You know, if what you say is a matter of fact,

then eventually and most assuredly you will reach the Hall of Fame!

Get ready to a miserable old fart. Everyone will want a piece of you and yours.

It's not about the money, is it? My guess about your intentions would be,

"Avtar wants to go down in History as being the
first to prove that Time as we know It is nonexistent."

If you have an any egotistical desires whatsoever...

may I remind you? DENIAL is not a river in Egypt.

The way it goes for me? I had some extra money.

I put it into savings Saturday. I will pull it back out today.

The washing machine broke down yesterday. And so, entropy reigns...

Dear Avtar Singh,
Ignorance of the universal laws is like ignoring what Einstein called the “Mind of God” and Nanak called the “Hukum (universal order)”.
Moon Minds are never clear and aware of what they say, as all Animals, Birds, Trees, Stars and everything exist are ignorance of the universal laws and still are full of life and living perfectly well.
What Einstein called the “Mind of God” and Nanak Called the “Hukum (universal order)” has big different is like Kavi (poet)’s Kaviata (poetry) and Rishi’s Richa.
Only Moon Mind can ignore the beauty of Star, trees, and existence because moon minds are full of knowledge, moon mind knows that the whole material world is bundle of sorrows. Nanak said: “Dukhia sab Sansar” that is the confirmation of P.S. The revelations of Holistic or Consciousness-integrated Relativity are not and should not be characterized as my teachings or opinions or subjective mystic experiences.
Look how moon minds are dependent on well-formulated, documented, and published scientific model. That’s make them Dukhi because their Sansar is their Mind.
Is any scientific model ever able to produce what Nanak called “Hukum (universal order)”?

You need an illusion - Giuseppe Ungaretti

Ungaretti
man of pain
you need and illusion
to give you courage

A floodlight
over there
makes an ocean
in the fog

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The original in Italian

Ungaretti
uomo di pena
ti basta un'illusione
per farti corragio

Un riflettore
di la
mette un mare
nella nebbia

Dr. Avtar Singh, I listened to your video finally.
What an awakening experience on the nature of the futility of the material happiness.

I think you will be hailed as one of the greatest thinkers and philosophers of the century as only you have the ability to integrate science with religion and happiness in such a lucid way as not to evade even a street person with limited knowledge on the workings of mental space and physical space intertwined with time in enormous distances. We want to be infinite, but there is no end to accumulating wealth, no end to building bigger houses, no end to erecting tall buildings like the empire state building, no end to craving for wealth, power and fame; and hence all attempts to be happy are futile, like chasing the rainbow. The moment we think we are near the rainbow, it moves away. This is the transient world of our existence and so is everything ephemeral in it. No permanence whatsoever. All human attempts to achieve anything are finally futile.

So what would you recommend mankind should do? Should we give up making progress in sciences, arts, literature, holistic understanding of the quantum relativity and start meditating on God day and night? These questions often arise in my mind with no practical answers.

As much I praise your depth of knowledge on unmaterialistic eternal happiness, I get further confused on how to obtain pure everlasting non material happiness.

Watching your video it appears you are very clear in your thoughts and know very well what you are saying from your profound knowledge of physical, biological and psychological sciences and religion. Please tell me what is the solution to the material happiness that does not last and brings us further unhappiness.

If the man that built the big house, only to be out done by his niehbor, shifted his perspective he would be happy for his niehbor's success and have another reason to show people his house and his niehbor's house.

Great questions Bubba.
I hope you don't mind if I take a try at a possible answer.

I am one of those common people. For me it is to enjoy fully the material world in the moment knowing it may not be there the next moment. I love my material possesions but they are not my happiness. Just that I have the oportunity to exist and be aware that I exist is enough for me. Everything else is temporay.

If the man that built his big house puts his happiness in that he built the biggest house it will ultimately lead to misery. But if he knows it is only temporary he will still find joy in his house no matter how big the niehbors house next door is.
I believe we can make advances in science, art, literature, ect...
but we must remember they are for our temporary pleasure.
In my belief system everything will eventually fade. Our art, our science, our personal life, our sun, our galaxy and eventually our universe. Nothing is permenant and everything is to be enjoyed.

So for me the answer is enjoy the moment fully because it only lasts for a moment.

derek

Dr Avtar Singh, do you agree with Derek who says,
"So for me the answer is enjoy the moment fully because it only lasts for a moment," and forget about the nonsensical philosophy of everlasting happiness and stop repeating till doom's day the religious teachings of Hindus and Sikhs.

Thanks for your comment, doodleman. Perhaps everyone needs an illusion to be happy - like the God delusion- and this reminds me of the following poem:

You need an illusion - Giuseppe Ungaretti

Ungaretti
man of pain
you need and illusion
to give you courage

A floodlight
over there
makes an ocean
in the fog

-tr. Ravi Kopra

------------------------------------------------------------

The original in Italian

Ungaretti
uomo di pena
ti basta un'illusione
per farti corragio

Un riflettore
di la
mette un mare
nella nebbia

Two young friends
both depressed
one jumps into
the well and
kills himself

Guru Nanak's hukum nama -
all that happens is
what God wills

The other sees a
shrink who puts him
on pills and cures him
He marries his sweetheart
and lives a full life

Again Guru Nanak's hukum nama-
all that happens is
what God wills
no need of human
intervention
it's all foolishness.

Dear Dr. Avtar, please comment on the Nanak's "hukum nama" in the case cited above. Thanks.

Yo, here is another possibility I ponder. Not a new one or unique to me.

Our universe is nothing more than part of a fireworks display. We are inside an explosion of one of the fireworks. Being inside it seems like billions of years to us, when to the people who are watching the fireworks, our universe lasts for just moments. The dark matter that makes up most of the universe is just the smoke of the chemical reaction. If we could see beyond our explosion we would see people on a lawn looking up at us saying wow that was a good one.

If you have seen the movie Men in Black, a cat carries a sphere around it's neck attached to a collar. Inside that sphere is a galaxy. At the end of the movie our galaxy is in a sphere which turns out to be a marble in a game being played by a civilization much bigger than ours.

So to me trying to figure all this out with science or spirituality is fun, but in the end we may just be a colorful and beautiful display of pyrotechnics.

derek

Dear Friends:

Thanks for watching the video and for taking time to write your comments.

I would like to mention that I am fully aware of the difficulty a person would have in understanding very deep concepts of relativistic physics, biology, and their relationship to the concepts of spirituality. I am trying my best to simplify the explanations to the generic audiences that may have knowledge of only one or the other fields.

Further, I am not trying to convince anybody to change their ideologies, convictions, or beliefs, but merely stating the truth revealed by the consciousness-integrated science. One has to make his/her own decision whether to consider it, understand it, digest it, or throw it into the waste basket.

However, if a person is able to grasp the miraculous scientific-spiritual revelations of the consciousness-integrated science, it may change his/her life forever as it did mine. I struggled for a long time to understand Buddha, Nanak, and other masters and their universal message that coincided with science. And, then I finally realized the commonality and unity in the integrated Genuine Science-Spirituality beyond their incomplete, fragmented, and paradoxical mainstream counterparts.
-------------- --------------------- --------------------- -----------------------

Dear bubba:
#1:
“……..It is assumed to be through some mysterious process of mind waves etc that are tuned to the exact frequency of consciousness. ………. when 100 thousand people are connected through their consciousness. How will this increase the entropy of the world? In fact through connectedness, more order will prevail and so the entropy must decrease.”
Your answer and comments please…..?”

The connectedness is thru ONE universal consciousness and the disconnectedness or separation is thru the boundary walls of the individual mind (ego) built upon blind beliefs, memories, convictions, man-made morals, and dogmas. In order to connect to the universe and others, one has to dissolve the boundaries of mind or ego that cause the separation in the first place.

Even a set of collection of many minds separates it from the other sets of collection of minds – like one religion versus the other, and one ideology versus the other.1 The conflicting sets then create relativity, separation, conflicts, and entropy (suffering) as is evidenced in the world today. Collections are merely the sums of parts and never the whole.
Other’s and even one’s own external fame, wealth, power, or materialistic achievements have nothing to do or cannot help in achieving the inner connectedness or self-realization, which is a path that one has to walk alone into the deep inner depths. Connectedness or egoless awareness is an individual’s inner journey opposite to the outer journey towards others’ exterior manifestations of duality and multiplicities that only cause increase in entropy due to the existing external boundaries. The inner journey to the universal self-realization is the only process that dissolves entropy via dissolving of the limited boundaries of the mind. The accumulation or renunciation of exterior wealth, power, and fame that is only relative to others or duality is irrelevant or futile to achieve the inner self-realization.

#8:
“….So what would you recommend mankind should do? Should we give up making progress in sciences, arts, literature, holistic understanding of the quantum relativity and start meditating on God day and night?
……………. I get further confused on how to obtain pure everlasting non material happiness?”

Dissolve the boundaries of the mind – ego and cultivate universal awareness and keep doing what your inner consciousness tells you. No need to force yourself to artificially or morally drop anything including making progress in sciences, arts, literature, holistic understanding of the quantum relativity.
TRANSFORMATION (of the ego), and not the RENUNCIATION or ACCUMULATION of the material world, is the key to GENUINE CONTENTMENT or HAPPINESS.
Whatever you would do under the governance of the desire-less and choice-less universal awareness will bring joy and happiness that would last forever and even go with you when it is time to leave this world.
Just remember, if you imprisoned yourself within the boundary walls of the desired material self-gratification alone, you would have already dug your grave and wasted the gift of life. Let the seed become the tree and then the forest of joy.

#10:
"So for me the answer is enjoy the moment fully because it only lasts for a moment,"
Please refer to my earlier following IB posts on this topic:
http://www.intentblog.com/archives/2007/07/how_to_live_in.html
and
http://www.intentblog.com/archives/2007/07/how_to_live_in_1.html

#11:
The two young men would never be even depressed if they understood Nanak who said:
“Homei Bujhe Taa Dar Sujhe” – The one who realizes that the true root cause of suffering/depression is ego, finds the door to salvation.
Moreover, if they really took to heart Guru Nanak's hukum nama – “all that happens is what God wills”, they would never be depressed in the first place. It is the ego that gets depressed when its desires gets crushed. A true understanding of Nanak dissolves the ego via a complete surrender to God’s will; hence, there is no root cause of depression left.

MORE IN THE FOLLOWING POST.
------------- -------------- ---------------- ----------------------
Dear Smartopinion:
#2:

“What's stopping you from becoming Buddha who ultimately left all the materialistic happiness for the universal ?????

Nothing. I do not see the stop sign that you may be seeing.
Becoming Buddha is not becoming a physical look alike of an ascetic or a statue; it means self-realization that has nothing to do with the bodily or material appearance, accumulation or renunciation of material pursuits. Buddha did not become Buddha by mere renunciation. Moreover, when he achieved enlightenment he realized that the root cause of unhappiness is ego and all its acts of material pursuits including the renunciation, fasting, worshipping, and prayer were futile. He never preached renunciation and other moralistic practices to his disciples. Also, Nanak and Kabir never left the world to be an ascetic, and denounced such practices as futile in achieving self-realization.

“………….there has to be a subtle desire to be wealthy, which is complemented by similar efforts to prove the uselessness of possessing it. After all you are living in the mighty USA, right?”

Yes, very very subtle - 4%. The real wealth (96%) of the material world is the desire less egoless Wisdom that gives the ultimate GENUINE HAPPINESS, purpose, and meaning to life.
USEFULNESS is not MEANINGFULNESS.
Usefulness ends at the 4% material boundary; meaningfulness encompasses the rest 96% of human life. Getting imprisoned within the 4%, is defying being human to its full potential.
And, it does not matter where you are – USA, India, or elsewhere.

“………..there is nothing wrong in sharing your thoughts if you have any, But I see no such efforts by Nanak or Buddha.. I think their thoughts could have been mere reactions to questions raised by people...”

Buddha spoke and spoke for years and Nanak sang and sang for years following their enlightenment. You are incorrect in presuming that they did not share their thoughts.

“What's your original question that is not borrowed?”
None.
All questions are borrowed – shadows of the constrained mind (ego) that borrows from its limited storage of memories, beliefs, convictions, and linear logic. Only the revelation of the universal reality as it exists is original.
In fact, there is only One question and One answer – what is the ultimate reality? Rest all questions are corollaries or varying restatements of the same one question.
If you are waiting for someone to ask an original question, you may wait forever.
------------- ---------------- --------------- ---------------

Dear Keith,
#5:
There is a much much bigger reality beyond the savings account in a bank and repairing washing machines (Leave that for the lonely Maytag repairman).
The frog living in the well must go to the ocean to realize what lies beyond the walls of its dear well.
------------ --------------- ----------------------------- ---------

Dear A-Man=No-Mind,

Thank you for taking your valuable time to read, view, and write comments. You must have felt it to be worthwhile, otherwise you won’t do it.
O Almighty Sun-mind or No-mind!! We the moon-minds have fallen from grace. Please shower us with your sun-shine as we suffer in the darkness of our ignorance and are unable to see the beauty and elegance of the universe. Please Save us; Save us.
--------------- ------------- -------------------------- ---------

Love
Avtar

This is a an excellent book I reconmmened to anyone who are confused whether or not to make money or realize any other mateial desires and don't know how to, and don't know how to be of service to the universe by keeping this money flowing...

Creating Affluence: The A-to-Z Steps to a Richer Life

By Deepak Chopra
Carlson, Ph.D. Richard

"The precursor to "The Seven Spiritual Laws of Success," this book explores the full meaning of "wealth consciousness" with clear and simple wisdom. According to author Deepak Chopra, "Affluence includes money but is not just money. It is the abundance, the flow, the generosity of the universe, where every desire we have must come true, because inherent in having the desire are the mechanics for its fulfillment."

In his book Deepak quotes Oscar Wilde, "There is only one class of people that thinks more about money than the rich, and that is poor. Infact, the poor can think of nothing else."

I am not too sure what Wilde really meant but see how brilliant Deepak's interpretation of 'poor' is... he says(parahrasing), if you are concerned about your wealth, if you worry about losing it, of making more, and not having enough, then you are 'poor' irrespective of the dollars you have.

He goes on to say, to have true wealth is about being totally carefree about everything in life, including money. He defines true wealth consicousness as the consociusness at the source of all material reality. i.e. the soucre of all material reality is pure consoiusness.

Deepak says, "Money is life energy that we exchange and use as a result of the service we provide to the universe. And in porder to keep it coming to us, we must keep it circulating."

Under the alphabet "S" says.."Money stands for spending and service. Money is like blood; it must flow. Hoarding and holding to it causes sludging. Inorder to grow, it must flow. Otherwise, it gets blocked and, like clotted blood, it can only cause damage."

Those who want to read the book or listen to the tape "Creating Affluence: Wealth consciousness in the field of all possibilities"( or the A-Z Guide to creating Affluence) , this little book is supposed to be read in one sitting, and then to be read five pages a day.

It has a lot of Quantum Physcis proofs and Vedanta Philosophy.

Since I had read this book, I have been quadrupling my business profits every year! The Economic boom in India helped me in part. It's been a exponential growth from my humble beginning in the valleys of Jammu and Himachal Pradesh.

Apart from monetary success I found contentment in my family, friends and life, and in my service to the underprivileged by creating employment opportunities.

We shall meet where the river meets the sea, dear Avtar, dear all. We are mostly water already and how miraculous that is among the dark matter.

Come flow with we,
E>

My experience...

As long as you are looking for enlightenment...

enlightenment wont happen.

As long as you are looking for anything...

enlightenment wont happen.

And, if by chance, you are not looking for anything...

is there anything still missing?

Wot if I am looking for un-enlightenment.

Does this mean my dream will be fulfilled?

Wot if I am heartily sick of the whole goddamned show.

Come rise with we,
E>

Dear Avtar Singh,
First of all writing comments on your post or anybody’s post is normal, nobody is taking their valuable time to read, view, and write comments because the purpose of IntentBlog is this.
Just imagine if nobody writes comment on your post, you will continue to write this kind of post. All moon mind factions exactly like this, they feel center of the world and they look according to their Knowledge, Philosophy, scientific models, books, ideas, theology, and so on. Just go thru all comments of your post, may be you will understand what you are writing has some really meaning or not. Your post and your answer are putting you in a strange situation. You know that there is no answer, because you are the answer…

Secondly, if you read again and again, what you wrote: “ O Almighty Sun-mind or No-mind!! We the moon-minds have fallen from grace. Please shower us with your sun-shine as we suffer in the darkness of our ignorance and are unable to see the beauty and elegance of the universe. Please Save us; Save us.-Avtar Singh.
Probably one day you will explode with big laughter. Don’t miss that moment…
Thirdly, it seems you are new in this kind of spirituality. There are many spiritual teacher, who follow certain kind of philosophy like “What is enlightenment?, Diamond Logos, Diamond Heart, Big Mind, Integral Spirituality, Advaitan Spiritual teacher and so on….
These spiritual teachers don’t even answer on comment, which doesn’t feet in their philosophy because they have enough number of followers to satisfy their work.
Love
Aman

Aman writes:

"Secondly, if you read again and again, what you wrote: [Ref. 19]... Probably one day you will explode with big laughter. Don’t miss that moment…"

What makes you think that Avtar Singh was NOT enjoying a good laugh while he wrote that comment?

Were you the one who actually missed the humor? I didn't.

In my experience, Ego and Enlightenment don't mix. One destroys the other - only when one is destroyed the "other" is "discovered". Because, one is created just by the "absence" of the other - just like the light and the darkness. Darkness is merely the (relative) absence of the Light and nothing More. And less the light, thicker the darkness!

Maybe, that's why, the earliest pioneer of Enlightenment, Buddha, discovered two things at once:

Enlightenment

and,

No Self

Because, in reality... the two are "exactly" same thing.

One can have the most spectacular vision of the world (universe) or God yet if a belief in I, individuality or self remains Enlightenment has not yet been rediscovered.
Todd

Ref. 17

And, when you are not looking for anything, something does start to happen, something does start to shift, something does start to change...

you can give it any name you want.