Hi Todd,

The importance to me lies in the fact that what was, is not anymore and one can start afresh whenever. I have found this a very positive discovery.

Reminds me of this song:
“The road ahead is empty, with miles of the unknown
Whatever seems to be your destination, take life the way it comes, take life the way it is.”

Well, I guess those two song lines are already a perception and however I see it, when it is turned into words, the meaning is lost immediately.

So is there any importance in embracing the unknown? Yes in the silence of knowing :)

Mieke

Any genuine encounter with reality is an encounter with the unknown, is an intuition in which awareness of the object is won, a rudimentary, preconceptual knowledge. Indeed, no object is truly known, unless it was first experienced in its unknown-ness. - Abraham Heschel God In Search of Man

It is not by the eyes that He enters, for He is without form, or colour that they can discern; nor by the ears, for the coming is without sound, nor by the nostrils, for it is not with the air but with the mind that He is blended... - St. Bernard Mysticism

The hero's quest, that Mr. Chopra briefly mentioned in his recent article about the global brain, is a quest for Truth. The importance lies solely in the question that the hero has to keep asking himself every step of the way; and that is "What's the alternative?"

It is life! It is growth!

Change is the only constant. Change will happen if you like it or not, so by embracing the unknown you may find the smoother, poistive transition to where you are going anyway.

Biologically, cancer cells resist change. They try to get all the other cells around them to follow. If they succeed the result is the same.

To know reality, the mind has to be able to let go of the map and walk on, to places never even dreamed of. Don Quixote had to leave his home to find adventure :) On an archetypal level, all minds are on a quest, sailing the sea of the unknown in search for their source.

The unknown is only un- known from the perspective of the limited self, in the manifested reality. From the perspective of the field, everything is known and exists at once, choicelessly neutral. The excitement, the fun, comes when you have your head in the sky but your feet on the ground, and allow yourself not to know what your next choice will be :) Surprise yourself ...

Without the unknown, there is no fun.

Dear Todd:

The unknown cannot be embraced. Trying to embrace the unknown is like shooting in the dark. That is what the ritualistic religion teaches - the blind belief; and that is where the religion fails to enlighten or eliminate the darkness.

In order to embrace the unknown, the unknown has to be revealed and experienced via cultivating total or wholesome awareness. The unknown exists because of the blindness or myopic vision of the constricted self or ego. When the ego dissolves, the light comes on (enlightenment) and the unknown is revealed. And, when the newly revealed is embraced with love, the previously unknown merges or dissolves into the Oneness of the universal reality or the TRUTH.

Love
Avtar

Dear Todd:

The unknown cannot be embraced. Trying to embrace the unknown is like shooting in the dark. That is what the ritualistic religion teaches - the blind belief; and that is where the religion fails to enlighten or eliminate the darkness.

In order to embrace the unknown, the unknown has to be revealed and experienced first via cultivating total or wholesome awareness. The unknown exists because of the blindness or myopic vision of the constricted self or ego. When the ego dissolves, the light comes on (enlightenment) and the unknown is revealed. And, when the newly revealed is embraced with love, the previously unknown merges or dissolves into the Oneness of the universal reality or the TRUTH.

Dear Witnesser,

"And, when the newly revealed is embraced with love, the previously unknown merges or dissolves into the Oneness of the universal reality or TRUTH".

And since life is new every moment, there is only one solution: to live and let live and flow with whatever truth comes to one at any given moment.

Isn't that what it is all about then?

Isn't this the same as embracing the unknown, in knowing in silence (i.e. meditation) that truth is new to the awareness every moment?

Meditation meaning to me that you just do not think about your actions but act in the moment (go with the flow).
Only afterwards you understand your actions when reflecting on them. At least that seems to explain the spontaneity you have talked about.

I hope i have made myself clear enough in my questions?

It also tends to happen afterwards that people made misuse of your acting in the moment? Or is that something that only occurs in one's own mind?

Mieke

Our hero has to ask himself "What's the alternative?" because he comes to a place on his path where all the angst has disappeared, and all the words, and everything seems AOK, and can't remember what all the fuss was about. This is called Acala, but whatever. He has to recall why he set out in the first place, has to recall the Goal, and therefore the alternative to the Goal. It's motivational. It keeps him going to the finish line.
His determination has to be the same as one who "carefully guardeth the pupil of one's own eye." I love heros.

Aurora,
I loved your response. Reading it may inspire someone to let go of the past, his or her maps and take an adventurous leap into the unknown.
Todd

Avtar,
With all due respect there is an aspect to The Infinite that is unknowable. I am wary of anyone that claims they have inherited absolute truth.
The unmanifested realm of infinite possibilities
(pure potential) cannot be frozen into a truth that can be written in a book.
Deepak says the answer to my question is creativity as some others here seem to be implyng as well. The truth that can be written is not the truth at all.
Todd

suppose the unknown is a terrorist.
you embrace him.

he will kill you.

no?

so why we embrace the unknown, for example, God, the most unknown? Because we are stupid. No?

Right, witnesser?

The Absolute Existence cannot be completely mapped out by any scientific analysis.
Isn't that what all the religions attempt to do.
Now science must believe it to be the new religion. Every scientist lives to have his theories (ideas) exalted into some absolute truth.
Todd

Re: post #10 It reminded me of something - Absolute repose, absolute fecundity, for this dignity man has been made. - John Rusboebck, I think. Well anyway, I really want to quit blathering here, so I think I might try to write an episode for Criminal Intent Law-and Order, now that the writers are on strike. It's just I have no motivation. No one is going to pay me. I don't know how to schedule the commercial breaks. But I have a great idea for Goram and Eames to recognize a love (spiritual) between them. Well, I may just delve into the unknown and see what happens.

Un-know-ability does not mean un-witness-ability.

Unknowable exists only relative to the frame of reference of the ego that wants to know it all. As long as there is a desire (of the ego) to know it all, there is un-knowable. When ego dissolves, the unknowable becomes witness-able or the object of awareness of the egoless awakening.

Nature has not created anything that is not witness-able and experience-able by the fully conscious mind. Assuming the ultimate un-know-ability, which is nothing but an artifact of the unconsciousness of the ego, is selling short the wonderful design and dignity of nature and the universe.

Genuine science and genuine spirituality are not two different pursuits. So long as the TRUTH is One, its realization or path to its wisdom is also One. One can argue separation of the mainstream (materialistic only) science from spirituality, but the consciousness-integrated science (Holistic Relativity) is no different than the wisdom of the Buddha, Christ, and Nanak.

Equating the materialistic-only science with the consciousness-integrated Holistic Science is like equating the dead and alive.

Embracing the un-known is like kissing the Ghost, an ultimate cop-out of the ego to dissolve itself to enable witnessing of what exists behind the veil of the assumed un-know-ability of the ultimate TRUTH.

What is written in books is the path, not the Goal. Most people profess religion, but do not practise it. It is because we are caught up in the Age of Reason, and our awareness is fascinated by ideas - Like a deer is caught up in the fascination with the car's headlights.
Only our hero sets out where "two roads converged in the wood, and I took the one less traveled by;" ...Robert Frost, if I recall correctly.

Re post #13
"Tranquility according to his essense, actvity according to His nature: absolute repose, absolute fecundity - for this dignity has man been made." - John Ruysbroeck (1293-1381) from the book Mysticism.
I just wanted to clarify. Now I'll go try to start my teleplay on Crimminal Intent. But I might have writer's block. On this stuff, the words come too easy. I think it has to do with magnetism. - What one is attracted to. However if Detective Goram and Det. Eames can exhibit a spiritual love it may hold my attention, also I'll be practising visualizing, well that handsome Vincent D'Onofrio, and that's a good thing.

witnesswe says this:

"Un-know-ability does not mean un-witness-ability.

Unknowable exists only relative to the frame of reference of the ego that wants to know it all. As long as there is a desire (of the ego) to know it all, there is un-knowable. When ego dissolves, the unknowable becomes witness-able or the object of awareness of the egoless awakening."

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Damn, it's the ego that keeps us away from witnessing the witness-able even though our un-know-abless might keep us in blissful ignorance of the unbelievable, unless we put down the egotistic garb of our all know-ablessness, we cannot experience the relative holistic oneness of the supreme creator of all.

And ego prevents us from knowing all this. We want to see and hear what we want to believe is see-able and hear-able. Nothing else does not matter, even it is all relativistic from the point of view of the experience and the experience. Truth is a pathless path as our Indian philosopher Krishnamurthi said and is through connected consciousness that we know the unknowable naturally, without efforts as Dr Deepak Chopra said.

Do you agree, Avtar?

Sorry in #17, it's not witnesswe says this, it's witnesser says this.

Without effort?

Yeah, let's all try sitting under the banyan tree for a couple of weeks.

Yeah, let's all try dukeing it out in the desert for 40 days and 40 nights.

There are paths and there are ski trails.
Natural is the long, long, footpath of the Yugas.

Oh, I scheduled the darn commercial breaks in my teleplay on a circle starting at 10:00pm to 11:00pm and it looks almost like my yantra of the Yugas overlaid with the precession of the earth's axis. Freaky.

You know I'm sorry if I offend someone here. I can see from my writing that I tend to get flippant sometimes.
It's just that I don't see Something as being holy. God is my father. I have a right to His possessions, His wisdom, and a right to get to know Him better.
If holy means The Most Precious, then I can go with that.

witnesser #14

Great comment!

"Un-know-ability does not mean un-witness-ability"

"Equating the materialistic-only science with the consciousness-integrated Holistic Science is like equating the dead and alive."

Each sentence is worth a quote.

Dr. Avtar Singh,

If you are ever to write a non-technical book on spirituality and science, I am sure that would be an instant hit. What I am more impressed having read many of your blogs in the past is the clarity of thought, consistency and commitment in your approach towards the subject. I find no flaws in your arguments and possible inconsistencies with nondual spirituality and mainstream science including Quantum Mechanics.

I'm always in trouble with my words. "A right to His possessions" - well, what does God possess? I've learned it is Sat Tat Aum. I don't want to get into that materialistic stuff again.
Well I've got the first 3 minutes of Crimminal Intent done. Goram is chasing after Eames, without the Captain's permission, that we know of.
Kind of like Siddhartha going off into the community without his father's permission; and Jesus leaving for years and nobody knows where he went.
Why are we always chasing after something? It's magnetism.

I posted prematurely. It's like the Big Bang pulling in on itself. If you imagine all knowledge inside a sphere and then squeeze it in on itself (due to magnetism) to one point, then from that point you would know everything. --
Just a metphor as to how God draws us back to Him.
He kicks us out and reels us back in. What's up with that?

Sorry, word salad again. That reference was Sat Chit Ananda.

Wow, this thread is a treasure as I am enjoying reading about the unknown. :-)

I really liked Avtar's posts, which kind of answers some of my most recent questions, as I just cannot figure out the Unknown, i.e., God for me.

This one was great and poetic - I love poetry ...

"Embracing the un-known is like kissing the Ghost, an ultimate cop-out of the ego to dissolve itself to enable witnessing of what exists behind the veil of the assumed un-know-ability of the ultimate TRUTH." ~ Avtar

... and kind of funny. Just imagine eventually thinking one has found the Unknown after a long and hard journey, only to realize that it disappears again, as soon as it is almost grasped! One can almost taste it ... Like being in the desert and seeing a mirage of paradise with fresh drinking water...

Love, Char

Hello, Sherry!

I'm not sure if we have met, but...

I was reading your stuff, and...

Are you fairly new here?

To me, you are one of the unknown.

Can I hug you or embrace you

from where I bliss out?

I do feel as if that should be

important, Om style or Omni-reaching.

Brace yourself. You should be feeling it soon.

What?

I had to give it a shot.

Please, let me know if you feel better soon.

Ahhh...universal care is free for you make it so.

Bye now! Keith

Hello post #26:

I really only want My Father's embrace. Anything else is merely the filling in the eclair.

Don't know where I'm going.
Don't know where I've been.
Like Crocodile Dundee.
Happy trails to you though.

~~~~~~

even if a horn & voice plumb
the unknown, what remains unsaid
coalesces around an old blues
& begs with a hawk's yellow eyes.

~~~~~~

"What is the importance of embracing the unknown?"

Well, what is the importance of being alive?

"Well, what is the importance of being alive?" Yogi-One

That's classical existentialism. And a meaningful question. We can ponder about metaphysical questions of the unknown, god, existence etc till the cows return home, but, "the only true philosophical question", as the Nobel the laureate Albert Camus puts it in his book, "The Myth of Sisyphus", is: Suicide. Is life worth living?

I think it is not a coincidence that to so many the experience of enlightenment happened in the suicidal, death-related thoughts. I think "survival instincts" are the most basic bondage that exists. And, as I see it Enlightenment, Freedom, Liberation, or 'witnessing the unknown' basically means going beyond the survival instincts. Surrender is basically the letting go of the survival instincts.

As I see it, all (mental) pain and suffering, is ultimately linked to the survival instincts - these desire to "exist" and after letting go that desire, the freedom is felt for the first time. Moreover, this letting go of survival instincts needs to be really genuine and not a just a "trick" or "shortcut" to achieve the ultimate goal. That is the reason, that while many long time spiritual seekers in spite of many attempts of pretended "surrender" - some seemingly non-spiritual people experience amazing Clarity and Freedom in the face of Death.

Further, I think the basic approach, which is pretty much used world over and across the culture, and, which is called "Wake Up" - is wrong and misleading. Because, only one which can hear, interpret "wake up" and can attempt to "wake up" is the 'mind', the 'ego' and by further 'waking it up';the basic problem is only intensified.

In order for the clarity to shine, the survival, me-centric 'mind' needs to 'sleep' (if not die) and not "wake up". The Truth is to found by its returning to THE SOURCE - to the place where I "came from" and it is not a destination that it can reach forward. And, it can RETURN to the source by ceasing to exist... or, by at least Sleeping!

Therefore, Gorakh is right when he says: Die O Yogi Die

And, it is no surprise that Ramana Maharishi experienced *reality* amidst of thoughts of impending death and Eckhart Tolle experienced it amidst suicidal thoughts. It is also therefore no surprise that nonduality calls Deep Dreamless Sleep, the purest state - and, you reach there by putting that which has *woken up* to *sleep* and not by "waking it up" even Further!

My Dear Unknown,

You are my Mother...
On whose lap I ran to cry off when I am mad and someone told I am bad..
You consoled and comforted me with your motherly love...

You are my Brother...
To whom I taught lessons of life and virtue, as a teacher with a cane...
You listened to me so well.

You are my Father…
To whom I ran to, when I am afraid and need security
You taught me to walk through, with courage and taking me by ur hands...

You are my Friend...
To whom I shared my frustration and happiness.
You shared everything along with me...

You are my Lover...
In whose eyes I saw myself, and the sparkle...
You shared my dreams...

And I am your Wife, I surrender unto You...

Iam yours...

Dear Todd,
Embracing the Unknown means to be free, free from all the turmoil of the dualistic world and experience perfect bliss without interruptions and without blemishes. Actually, such happiness is what we are longing for every moment of our lives but simply do not know how to realize it. So, what else can be more important than embracing the Unknown! Once you embrace it, you realize that it is really not unknown but only undescribable as you said in your comments.

Re #29, Yogi,
"Well, what is the importance of being alive?"
Vivekanada said, life is the constant effort to realize divinity, i.e., embrace the Unknown in Todd's words. So, repeating my earlier comment, to be alive is the struggle to realize perfect bliss by religion or no religion, or by whatever means. Is the struggle important? difficult to answer because perfect bliss is to be free from the struggle and here we are struggling to give up the struggle!

"Well, what is the importance of being alive?" Yogi-One

"...to be alive is the struggle to realize perfect bliss by religion or no religion, or by whatever means. Is the struggle important? difficult to answer because perfect bliss is to be free from the struggle and here we are struggling to give up the struggle!" Syamala

As Deepika says, it is indeed an existential question:

'In The Myth of Sisyphus, Camus uses the analogy of the Greek myth to demonstrate the futility of existence. In the myth, Sisyphus is condemned to roll a rock up a hill for eternity, but when he reaches the summit, the rock will roll back to the bottom again. Camus believes that this existence is pointless, but he feels Sisyphus ultimately finds meaning and purpose in his task, simply by continually applying himself to it, which he views as the noble quality of man.'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existentialism

Good morning post #26,

I didn't mean to sound so mysterious, but when I said I didn't know where I was going, that is true. When I said, I don't know where I've been, that is more or less true. I've kept a diary for the past three years and I really don't want to read it. I think a natural result of yogic meditation is to learn to stay more in the present; that is to say not to, any longer, harbor resentments and angst and turmoil, or to revist and relive the past. There are other things in myself, of the present, to work on.
The day gives its own presentiments. - Charles Johnston said that in a much more beautiful way in his commentary on The Yoga Sutras of Patanjali.
Thanks for asking.

Yes! Yogi-One
Todd

Thank you Syamala,
It seems as if my thoughts are not unknown to you.
Todd

The Unknown/Beyond Qualification
Todd