Dr. Singh says: "the true or fundamental life is the cosmic consciousness that not only energizes the biological life within our bodies but also keeps the universe alive and expanding." All that is needed to grasp the true life is "the inner resolve" indeed, what or where is the force that mobilizes this resolve? We are all awaiting this. Is this a solo act, does one need a trusted outside force to lend a hand, or is this an expression of collective will to be realized in group dialogue?

Vigdor
GOOGLE: LOVERS OF DEMOCRACY

My problem with this approach is that, to me, it seems human to learn.

Some of the stuff that is acquired seems quite in harmony with our nature.

This is well worth a watch in relation to what you present to us, Avtar et al.
This lady has hands on/off experience!

Vigdor, her experience may also throw some light
on your questioning.

Go to this website below and scroll down to:
"When a Brain Scientist Suffers A Stroke."

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/

First of all, Edmund, it's a Sunday morning.

Sea uhn's I never work on the Sabbath, I happen to have the time.

18:44 to be precise. Yes! And now I still have more time.

More time to talk about the link...the link to "Lah Lah Land".

18:44 That's how much time it took to take me home.

Me2 comprehends, and perhaps,

having 'been there, done that' sort of thing

without conveniently having a stroke of luck...

Where was I? Ed! Are you 'out there' right now?

And Edmund...are you familiar with the writings of Aldous Huxley?

Two of his works immediately come to mind...having just witnessed THAT video!

Attention! Attention!

Well? Did it work?

"Time Must Have A Stop" (1944) & "Island" (1963)

The direction of our evolution (as a species) leads us

to believe in ourselves. So now we may also believe in others.

I believe in you, Ed! But who do I have to thank for THAT?

Monkey chatter elimination vs. Focusing on concentration and attention

Tis all to be done in a meditative state...

From a point of view unlike any OTHER.

Where was I? Ed! Are you in this/here yet?

Ram Dass says,

"When I don't know who I am, I serve.

When I know who I am, He and I are one."

.

Dear Avtar,

Please excuse me for intruding into this shared space.

Barging right on in is instinctual and familial to me2 at once.

Ego comes and goes willy-nilly, causing the silly part of us to distract ourselves.

Aren't I the film, the projector, the actor and the motion picture?

Does this persuade me to become an atheist? Or a Carl Sagan worshiper?

Where does THAT leave GOD???

In two places at once, just like me2, I shall defiantly suppose.

.

Hey Avtar! I hope we all rise for this occasion.

Have a Happy Easter!

I'll be getting shell-shocked.

Crack me up so I's can get out of here.

Peace bro! Keith

#5 Jesus, did i wake you up, brother?

We is on the rise!

That lady.....note the emotion....Me2, me wonder whence? Me go....me come back, me in a spin.

Adapt or die?

Thanks Edmund for your tip about the amazing insight into the 2 different types of consciousness residing in left-right hemispheres of the brain, gained by Dr. Jill Bolte Taylor from her own brain trauma. Her experience seems to indicate that deeper appreciation of the present, possessed by the right hemisphere of the brain, could be critical to progress in betterment of humankind. Now we must all find ways to draw ourselves deeply into the spiritual insights of the right brain with the inspiration of Avtar Singh and Deepak Chopra.

Vigdor
GOOGLE: FINS WORLD NEWS
Feature Story: Obama'08 Mind

Dear Avtar,

Thank you for a good read :) My reply is a little poem I made today:

Resonance to the Universal Tone
Results in never being alone
Gives the fullness of being alive
Gives the joy of joys to "derive"

To be a total humanly collective
Does not deny the individual perspective
It is a double goal to achieve
In a pure totality, a True Love belief

An impersonal totality is without breath
And surely on its way to total death
Yet a conscious centre of creativity
Within each individuality
That can create with Love at Will
Certainly makes life a wonderful thrill :)

With love, from the heartphone,

Mieke

Thank you Vigdor for the video. I very much related to Dr Taylor's experience. I have lived most of my life in my right brain without the ability to articulate my experiences to others.
To have a scientist who can articulate this experience is priceless.

Dear Avtar
When I'm in my creative zone I do carry an intense sense of myself and a heightened awareness of everything and that everything is everything. Yet 'I' am experiencing it.
But when you speak of dissolving the ego I was thinking it meant dissolving the 'I' that experiences this everythingness. I am quite attached to that 'I', or should I say my essence that remains after I let go of all my fictional stories.

The river flows to the ocean and evaporates to the clouds and rains on the mountain to flow back to the river. It is all water, it is many experiences.

much peace and respect to you Avtar

derek

Dear Vigdor,

"the true or fundamental life is the cosmic consciousness that not only energizes the biological life within our bodies but also keeps the universe alive and expanding." All that is needed to grasp the true life is "the inner resolve" indeed, what or where is the force that mobilizes this resolve? We are all awaiting this. Is this a solo act, does one need a trusted outside force to lend a hand, or is this an expression of collective will to be realized in group dialogue?

I would like to answer this question, because I understand what he is driving at. The inner resolve is your personal desire for the truth that drives you and all of us. This personal desire is what drives the human race. When you look at how life works, after your taught the essentials its basically a solo act, it depends on you. It can be intellectually understood in group dialogue and doubts cleared, but eventually you will have to find your own drive.
~Kurt~

Dear Derek,

I would also like to take a shot at this, and I’m sorry if I’m stepping on any toes by doing so. I guess I have a need to unload this information, but to people who really want to know, and so far this is the only outlet that I found which makes a positive effort towards that all important quest. Many kudos to the operatives of this site and thank you for allowing me to chime in.

When you are experiencing everythingness the ego in temporarily suspended and the mind is in that thoughtless moment of just experiencing life as the pure witness. Technically speaking you are in the meditative active moment, which is a real delight and can be considered close to Samadhi and the source. The ‘I’ your talking about is released and that is the good feeling you like. Similarly, it happens in meditation, contemplation in the form of epiphany’s, the “zone” in sports and in deep sleep. Still, everythingness is a feeling in energy and your soul is feeling less, and in the Samadhi state it is less of feeling and more of being, without the use of energy sensations. Another words, it is a good place to be in, but fleeting and hard to stay in for very long. Nonetheless it is an active meditation and helpful. ~Kurt~

Yo Mieke
I am
We are
You are
I am

peace

derek

Kurt
Thank you for your comment. Thanks to the creators of this site and their openess and patience, this is a great place to explore the amazing journey we find ourselves on.
When I am in that zone it is not for a moment but sometimes for hours. It is temporary and I do not know how I could function in this world while in that place. I carry some of the understanding from that zone into the rest of my life. When I hear scientists or spiritual teachers, their words spark that awareness in me, a confirmation so to speak. My instinct is to want to share my experiences with them but my words fall short. I believe we are saying the same thing but in different languages. I have determined myself to understand the language of the left brain and balance it with the non language of the right.
In the video of Dr Taylor above, she so exquisitely does this. It is a first step for me in bridging the gap between me and wonderful scientists like Avtar Singh.

derek

Oh, and there is this overwhelming sense of compassion that accompanies this 'zone'. I can not contain it so it's like my body disperses it. It's like atoms of, me, are electrified and released out and replenished back to me at the same time. I can not even paint when I am at this point. I felt it from Dr. Taylor.

yo

derek

Hey Derek,

Yo, i can go with you at that point :)

Love and bliss, Mieke

I know you've ignored my comments on the part 1, Avtar, and I understand it is not easy to find a space inside the head which is full of knowledge, for an alternative way of seeing the notion. Whence I consider, and since ''I am'' relating here to my own self for the sake of ''Self'' in the others. I'd like to offer further exploration of Who am I.

It is impossible to convey the experience to the scholar, yet it is so simple, when it happens. I mean when it really happens, on coming back to the waking state of consciousness, during the early period, before the nervous system is accustomed ( purified, etc ) enough to transmit the experience of higher states throughout the activity; on being asked what happened one can only say ''I am''.

Whatever the content of the experience there is always I am ~ there is only One [ Who ] experiences. There is no other agent ! It is Self that experiences itself by the means of the self alone. That's why in the tradition of Bharatavarsha the earliest known sound or term for God is Ka. Which literally means ~ Who ?

Ka is Who ? Who is Ka ?

So ''Who am I ?'' Literally means the question: ''God am I ? ''

That is the question consciousness asking itself in the moment prior to awakening from a self-imposed slumber into a state of limited self-consciousness. Yet obviously this is just a play on the part of consciousness, for how can anything limit the power of the Power itself ?

In the days when the individual awareness was less polluted with the vasanas, the answer wold still the mind in the submergence if bliss-consciousness, and the only answer to that would be: Yes, ''I am'' ( God, Consciousness, Totality, etc)

Whence why Adi Shankara came up with his famous Mahavakya sayings, with the most prominent one being:

Aham Brahmasmi ~ I am Brahman ( I am Totality ).

If you Avtar, or anyone else, wishes to understand the concept of the ego or the ego-consciousness in the light of the most sophisticated philosophical system India has ever produced, you'd have to go to Kashmir Valley, and study the work of its Masters, like Abhinavagupta and Ksemaraja their comments on the Shiva Sutras, Vijnana-Bhairava, Spanda-Karikas and Pratyabhijnahrdaya in particular. You would have
at least another if not revolutionary perspective on the aspect of the ''personal experience'' in the non-dual schools of philosophy of Self-realization.

Especially as a scientist you'd benefit tremendously from the
study of the Theory ( Doctrine of Vibration) in Spanada-Karikas
as well as learning about the Hrdaya ( the throb of Shiva's Heart ), the concept which has been largely unknown in the west until about 30 years ago, and still remains the area of very few serious scholars, whose works are now available through the SUNY publication.

Than going back to the presently held by you notions you'd at least have a more profound understanding of the concept.

I hope your ego wasn't hurt by this comment ( just kidding ). In my universe there is no yours or mine, there is only That.

I am That.

Jai Guru Dev

igor

Dr. Avatar is trying to explain the dissolution of ego for awhile and I would like to help him convey his thought throught this video.. This one video would CATCH all the juice of EGOLESSNESS which DR. Avatar is trying to convey..

http://www.ted.com/talks/view/id/229

Hey derek

We've come a long way since we met here a little over a year ago. *Time* flies doesn't it. :)
It truly is an amazing journey.

Dr. Avtar's posts are always stimulating.

peace to you and your family.
bonnie

Hi Mieke

Just wanted to tell you I have been contemplating what you said about surrender on an earlier thread. :)

Love
bonnie

#18 Ah QandA, you mean the one from Jill Bolte Taylor!

Me go, see. ;)

Hi Keith.

Mieke, Igor, the following poem taken from the book "Something Called Nothing" depicts for me very aptly the first moments of the experience of Self. Hope you too like it.

The event was accomplished
But reason
Had yet to absorb it entire
It hadn't burst hot from the lips yet
A tale like a swift spreading fire
The moment was not yet near
To assess it dispassionately
Yet all was clear
From the look of the earth
And the sky...

Hi there, Edmund and Harb!

Happy St. Patrick's Day!

.

Sir Edmund:

The destination or the ability to shift?

No Latin buff here, but, are one of these

a prerequisite--a conditio sine qua non?

.

Once, upon arriving at the nowhere state of

enlightenment and self-realization, my I, having already

been relegated to the bottommost post for starters,

took on the identity of a Green Man, a small one at that,

a leprechaun to be precise, a maker of mischief,

and a breaker of misfits recycled for essentials.

.

Shall I go on?

Well this came in into the heartphone just now:

With North I share inspiration

With Harb I share reason

With Igor I share bliss

Wouldn't this be an invitation

To step into All That is

With Avtar I share science

With Keith I share some guidance

With Bonnie I share surrender

With Derek I share things tender

With Kate I share the beauty of Nature

With Kan I share the desire to be right

With Vigdor I share the democracy feature

With Edmund I share the La La La land alright :)

To which Q and A so eloquently gave another linky site :)

What do we have in common?

What is our common ground?

Or is it all of this together in a freedom unbound?

Love, Mieke

And hereunder the beautiful poem of Yoko Ono, who celebrated her 75th anniversary on 18th February.

Sorry for the length but it is so worth reading it :)

BIRTHDAY THOUGHTS 2008
by Yoko Ono

It is a giddy feeling
like being on a mountain
looking down
many little houses
many little streets
I was once in them
how little they were!
The cars are driving
like soldiers
like cockroaches
like dots

I look up
there are many trees
leading me to...
is that the top of the mountain?
I see that I have
much more to go

Then I see
that I am still in my kitchen
In one of the little apartment buildings
which looked like a pebble from the mountain!
making my morning coffee
sitting at my computer
looking over the park
Sunrises.

Yes!
Seventy five
and I'm alive

My body is filled with
many people
many cities,
many countries
many laughters,
many loves
many, many spaces and
oh, many, many times...

Is that what it is
to be omnipresent?
to experience all your
senses and feelings
of all times and space at once?
With no limitations
of the human world
Freed from time
Freed from space?
Are we all getting there?

I am full of thankfulness
for being alive
I am full of love
for knowing you
knowing life

Your beauty
Life's amazements
still unfolding
it's mystery

Thank you, thank you, thank you
For a very rich experience

Yes. I'm seventy five!
I'm alive
still dancing
in love with life.

Now, I'm suddenly
at the top of the mountain
Seeing the other side -
The Future!

It's so magical
I'm speechless.
It's so beautiful
We're smiling!
You are there
We are there

Yes. we are all there!
We are all there.
Still dancing
In love with life.....

For February 18th, 2008
yoko ono
nyc

Hi Bonnie
Yes we have Bonnie.
In the swirl of words and emotions there are people who bring a calm grounding energy to the chaos. thank you

When do the watermelons sprout?

I am still trying to figure out just what the Ego is so I can decide if I want to get rid of it. I've lived most of my life thinking it was a frozen waffle.

derek

Mieke, cool down a bit lol!!

Otherwise you will become just light and disappear..

Yes Harb, will take your reasonable advice :)

Mieke

Awesome heartphone poem Mieke!! I also like the one Yoko posted on her birthday too...

Go with the flow Mieke.. it is the "way" and the light... : )

you will make a beautiful radiant light too!!

Love,
North

Hey Mieke, Sorry if I offended ya in some way, It was not my attention to do so.~Kurt~

No, no dearest Kan, how could you, after all you are an aspect of ME :)

Thanks North !

Love, Mieke

"It is important to remember that the dissolution or enlightenment is of the ego or mind and not the body. .... the dissolution of the body should never be confused with the dissolution of the ego or mind..." ~Avtar

That's good to know and I can see your point. I think what I found confusing is that I was under the impression that the body/mind/spirit were connected as one, i.e., what happens to one happens to another. My mistake was to believe that the exact thing that happens to one form takes place with the other form. Therefore, I deducted that an enlightened mind would affect the body (i.e., disappears in the physical world), but I can now see that the mind will not necessarily change the body into light without matter or waves. So a change will take place, but it's not what I thought, as the change affects each body differently depending upon if it is physical such as matter. But then again, if one is enlightened, I believe that they could switch from matter to wave easily, such as going into the gap and coming out somewhere else far away or as something else . But I suppose that would not be the typical enlightened person? Hey, an un-lightened person can only guess :-)

Thanks Avtar!

I re-rented, Deepak's "How to Know God" CD over the weekend and that helped me understand this much better, which went something like this ...

Body (light as matter - physical)
Soul (light as an unseen - mediator)
Virtual (where it comes from - un-manifested)

Well....I'm off to read others comments.

Love, Char

Okay, I re-read Avtar's post and I have one term that is unclear "MIND."

Are you referring to the mind as the brain or ego, such as lower consciousness, assuming that you are calling the mind consciousness?

And if the above were true as applicable in your post, then the comic consciousness would also be the One Mind without the ego of the physical world, I would presume, but fully aware.

So where does the MIND or Cosmic Consciousness fit in? Is it the Virtual world or the QM world below that?

Just asking as I cannot seem to fit it all together. Maybe the confusion is our use of the English language and what we are each trying to share and communicate?

Hey, thanks Avtar .... great post, as it makes one ponder future.

Love, Char

Re: #6 My God! Ram Dass said that?
I only just had the realization that the only thing I know how to do is meditate. Everything before that and everything after that is my portion of mashed potatoes and gravy. Sometimes the gravy comes with giblets. I picked one of the tiny giblets up to examine whether or not it be vegetarian and hard to chew. Son of gun if it didn't have the letters k-e-i-t-h on it. The next one I picked up said "bite me". Darn if Diablo hasn't been in my food again!
Yes, I've been totally weird-ed out lately. But Father finally sent me some clear words to think about: Gya, gya, gya ...Vast, vast is Divine Wisdom.

Dear friends:

Thanks to all for stimulating discussions/comments.
----------- -------------------- ------------

Dear Vigdor/KAN:

#1: “All that is needed to grasp the true life is "the inner resolve" indeed, what or where is the force that mobilizes this resolve? We are all awaiting this. Is this a solo act, does one need a trusted outside force to lend a hand, or is this an expression of collective will to be realized in group dialogue?”

Good answers, #11 and #12, KAN. Let me add to it.

We are born with an inner curiosity and thirst to know –“Who am I?” But we are distracted from it by other worldly priorities injected by others and environment. When we are jolted by some extraneous and shocking experience or when we realize that all our efforts and worldly successes are leading to nowhere, we progressively become more and more aware of the deeper realities. As we experience these deeper realities, we get hooked on to the meaning and peace that brings. And progressively, we begin the journey of the search for the ultimate truth. Then, when the truth becomes so enjoyable and enlightening, there is no stopping of the journey. The ultimate realization comes as an explosion of the infinite into the consciousness dissolving all walls of the ego.

On the other hand, if we fall for belief, becoming religious, or adherence to moralistic pursuits, or other tricks of the ego we are misled to never ask the questions born out of our curiosity to seek. Then the path to the dissolution of the ego is lost forever to the false sense of security of the belief or imaginary God as a savior or servant.

------------ -------------- ---------------------- ---------

Dear Edmund:
Thanks for the great video of Dr. Taylor. This vindicates my experiences of the Holistic Relativity built into our brains, minds, and the universe. The wisdom of science and spirituality are not two separate entities.

-------- -------------- ---------------------------

Dear Mieke:

Thanks for the lovely poem and thanks for reading my book.

------ ------------------------ -------------------

Dear Igor:

#17.

The wisdom of the ages that you are eloquently describing has been the very inspiration for my scientific work and already built into its formulations. I am not ignoring it but integrating it deeply and seamlessly into science.

-------- --------------- ----------------------------

Dear Char:

#33: “..Are you referring to the mind as the brain or ego, such as lower consciousness, assuming that you are calling the mind consciousness?”

Mind or ego is the same thing – a confined consciousness within the boundaries of convictions, beliefs, knowledge, and information etc. Brain is a part of the material body or flesh.

------- ------------------ ------------------------------

Dear Todd:

I am posting your comments hear since you are unable to post:

“Cosmic Unboundedness in Synchronicity...
The complete awakening of Pure Potential (The Absolute Truth)
The awakening of the non-local aspect of consciousness” - Todd

My scientific interpretation:

Cosmic non-locality (Oneness) is Synchronicity...
Awakening of Pure Absolute Existence...(The untapped Potential is only because of the Ego)

------------------- ---------------------- --------------------

Regards,

Avtar

Dear Avtar,

You are very welcome and thanks for the extensive and valuable interaction.

You write:

"The ultimate realization comes as an explosion of the infinite into the consciousness dissolving all walls of the ego."

A big bang after all? :))))

Much love, from the heartphone

Mieke

#36 Yes, indeed, thank you Avtar.

Meike....'A big bang after all?'
Suddenly, from your lead, it occurred to me that actual Big Bang theory is, in Avtar's terms, the ego's means of blocking 'an explosion of the infinite' into it's proponent's consciousness. In my terms, they might be one and the same according to one's uncertainties or, indeed, one's allowance of infinite creativity. (circling?)

I made that up, too, you can tell!

Weird-ed

Well Edmund, my experience of oneness when I was 34 really was the vision of a dot exploding into a radiant colorful curtain of unconditional love.

Perhaps I did have a small stroke then and nobody ever examined it further.

My life changed for the good after that experience.

I have been exploring my inifinite creativity ever since and yes, nowadays my intentions create bliss after bliss, am a healthy 62 year old woman, not afraid of ageing, always willing to learn and the perfect masters appear on my path without me having to do much myself :)

You can make it all (up) for yourself :)

Love, Mieke

Dear Meike, if you had a stroke, I think that was your sacred 'contract.'
Ultimately, I do not care to define in material terms. That we 'bleed' into Life speaks to me of an aching unconditional Source. Deep down, I feel, we ache for each other and sometimes we 'bleed.' That is our moment by moment, mutual 'contract.'(no ordinary contract) The shift is to re-alignment of all that we are and ever will be. It's a bleeding miracle!

Love to you,
Ed.

Thank you dear Ed :)

It's a bleeding miracle indeed!

And a creative one :)

Gratitude and bliss, from the heartphone,

Mieke

Dear Mieke & Edmund:

Big bang is opposite of spontaneous decay. Big bang creates matter (ego); spontaneous decay dissolves matter (enlightenment of ego). Big bang creates time; decay dissolves it.

Regards
Avtar

So The Play comprises both. From Big Bang to spontaneous decay is best described by HR while from spontaneous decay to again to Big Bang is best described by HQ. While God or What Is plays the home to it all.

I think we can all shake hands on that, Harb, my friend :)

Yes Ed, and when we all shake hands we bring in God or WHAT IS in as well.

Nothing more up our sleeve, Harb? ;)

In fact I myself was going to add "And then we would have glimpsed perfection."

Yes, nothing up our sleeve...but then you know...seasons change....And while saying so I feel standing in your garden...the Garden of Life is also the same...seasons change...

Ah yes, I must away now...........

Dear Avtar,

I would like to comment on some excerpts I have chosen from your lesson which are to me especially meaningful.

"The true or fundamental life is the cosmic consciousness that not only energizes the biological life within our bodies but also keeps the universe alive and expanding."

"The expanded vision then provides an integrated and broader view of reality that dilutes and ultimately dissolves our acquired beliefs and convictions of the ego. It is like switching the lights on and stop living in the darkness with no more running into walls or tripping."

"Dissolution of the ego is being REBORN with cosmic consciousness or awareness."

I believe that most people who use the phrase, "I am born again", don't really have a concept of the state that you have described. I am thinking in particular of some of the political figures we have. They do not appear to be guided by cosmic consciousness as opposed to the ego.

"Betsy" S.

Notice that the entire discusssion must always take place completely outside the Upanshads. That's because in the Upanshads the Self is defined as the fulfillment of desires, not the dissolution of the ego. Of course the whole idea of a Self is contradictory to the dissolution of the ego. This is just one more slick way of turning Hinduism into enlightment which is the goal of Mayahana Budduism.

This discussion can go on and on - i have tried to express my opinion in short.
I was going through an identity crisis some years ago when i 'found' myself through spirituality. Spirituality introduced me to a new world of peace and happiness. It had an answer to all my questions - a couple of questions that we all ask ourselves -
Who am I and Why am I here? I realised that I am not this body, but only a soul that resides in this body. I (the soul) have borrowed this body to reside in it for a period of time. When my time is up, I will leave this body and go back to the Supreme Soul where I belong.
We all are here for a purpose. Time will tell us what the purpose of our life is. I have discovered my purpose and am at peace. At the end of the day I feel happy and peaceful which in turn make me feel complete.
Interesting topic, this. Waiting to read the other parts as well...