When you say universal consciousness or nonlocal mind I presume your talking about Absolute Awareness (God) or Eternity. The issue that I think is confusing is your use of the word consciousness to explain two different types of being. The universe is nothing but consciousness that breaths life into what we see around us, but this type of consciousness is connected to movement or energy, giving us our sensory feelings and mind. You said what comes before that, which starts the motion or directs the mind? Which could only be its opposite, that being the stillness of the Soul, which directs through attention. What else could have total control over energy to the point of a complete escape, as in self-realization. Energy will always be moving and there will always be decay and uncertainty, but there will always be the hard floor of stillness (Eternity) so the dance of energy can take place. Consciousness is the manic relative of Stillness (Awareness) and peace, and Awareness directs by diverting its attention or focal point in the brain. The attention is like the mouse icon on our computers roaming around and accessing information on the hard drive. The soul has a focal point or eye, if you will, which is dominated by a focal point in the brain, which is the only way it can witness the world. In self-realization this point of perception is relinquished for the Souls natural perceiving point (eye) in the rear most position, which is the back of the head, I think between the nose and mouth. The edge where sensory feelings cease and stillness and emptiness takes over in space. Before realization I was bouncing around uncontrollably in the mind and it was difficult to withdraw that focal point with meditation, but now my focal point sits in my true position making it easy. Except when I am deep in thought and in the mind, but I can take my hand off the mouse and escape by falling back to my true position. Being in the mind and consciousness is my temporary state of being and my normal state of being is the Supreme emptiness, which is beyond unconsciousness and consciousness. Totally separate and untouched by anything moving, making in omnipotent. I think we are in essence talking about the same thing, would you agree or could you clarify it for me. ~Kurt~

I think Kurt has a valid point. Many especial after Tolle Eckhard's book A New Earth are using the word Consciousness as God. To me Consciousness is not the supreem, but that which reflects duality. It is neutral, conscious and unconscious. Good and bad, up and down, here and there...so within time and space. Actually Consciousness is time and space.

I think this is where people get "stuck" and are not able to "pop" out. They just don't "get it". Not out of ignorance...they are completely innocent. It is the wording and how words are used.

To me mind reflects individual consciousness (this can be consciously or unconsciously). The universe reflects collective consciousness.

In the absence of all thought... where is my body? The universe?

The belief in being human creates the illusion that something is outside of us....thought. It is the identity with...that keeps us from....

The "way out" is to be still and know that I am God. In the realization of Oneness/Truth/Self... the mind is still.

The supreem is neither conscious nor unconscious, but beyond consciousness.

"The universal consciousness is shown to represent the spontaneous kinetic energy of the extreme kind, which is the ultimate complimentary state wherein everything in the universe is experienced as the zero-point energy field in a fully dilated space and time continuum."

Now we all just need to get in tune!

Oneness

Om

I would simply call it bliss.

So I would like to ask you, Dear Avtar, what are your thoughts about Dementia?

To me, it is the final bliss. Only it doesn't look like it to others on the outside.

Is for instance Alzheimer really a dis-ease?

Love, Mieke

Yeah, your either conscious or unconscious in the universe, and they are both different states of the mind. Shaking off these two attributes is what enlightenment is all about.

empyrius, your still talking about energy or consciousness when your experiencing the universe as a whole, which is a spiritual experience in energy. But reality is beyond experience and energy.

Words again, dear Kurt, and you collate far better than I can, but I can't conceive of a beyond only a superimposition, non-scientific. Words are a loosely-woven fabric or perhaps, too tight! ?

Mieke,

My mother died after Alzheimer’s ravaged her brain and body, it was not a pretty sight. She would open her eyes and all she could do is look around, because there was barely a brain or body left. I believe she was already in the dream state of the afterlife, and she preferred it over this place, so it was hard to keep her awake. I don't blame her wanting that freedom over the imprisonment of a worthless body. ~Kurt~

Pure Potential is what the word implies.
This is The Zero Point.
The unbounded, non-local source of existence.
Todd

Ramana Maharshi used to say: "This body itself is a dis-ease."

He had so detached himself from his body that he wished or perhaps even had his way that Doctors would perform operation for cancer on his body without the use of anaesthesia.

Harb

Any model of the universe is formed within the
context of a localized version of consciousness.
Pure Potential is unbounded, ineffable, transcendental beyond conceptual mind.
It can only be known by becoming that.
Then beliefs, concepts and the multitude of
fallacies that come with the relativities of
localized mind fall by the wayside.
Todd

Yeah, I know, its hard to understand when words tangle us up in their web that’s why I use words that are timeless when talking about Eternity. Awareness, Nothingness, Being, God, Almighty and so forth.

Hi ~Kurt~,

You say: " I don't blame her wanting that freedom over the imprisonment of a worthless body ".

Yes and here lies a dilemma for me:

What if you want to express your will that if you ever come into this "state" you want to have euthanasia, just because you want to be free?

At this moment in our country one is able to put this in writing, together with one's family doctor.

But when the moment is there, there still is so much reluctancy to actually fulfill this wish.

Is one really the "boss" of ones own body?
So does one have a free will?

Matter of ethics, religion, culture ?

Rather difficult subject and I do struggle with this.

Love, Mieke

Todd, If it is beyond the mind then why do use the word mind when talking about it. To me the universal mind is the collective of all the great minds left behind by all the realized Sages in order to help humanity.

Mieke, if I could've used euthanasia to free her, I would have in a heart beat. She was a proud Woman and to look in her eyes and not help her was shameful to me. I could not believe that are system allows this to take place without showing any mercy.

Well I have a question. How would one describe something that is "beyond mind/consciousness" but is still present in mind/consciousness?

Isn't that why those sages who have experienced enlightenment say it's not describable. If we describe enlightment or awareness of that which is beyond mind or our own experiences isn't it possible that we are describing what it's not?

I'm confused.

Mieke

My feeling on that is who are we to make the decision of what purpose something like Alzheimers has on another soul's journey. From a compassionate standpoint one would not want that person to suffer. But from the standpoint of the soul, do we really 'know' they are suffering?

My husband is facing the same thing with his Mom.
Hard decision and I can't answer it and don't know if I should.

Mieke

I think what I'm saying is that when we witness someone we love with an affliction like dementia, it's us doing the suffering not them, or the "them" that's beyond mind and body.

Aloha Everyone

I just would like to say with my experience with those who have the condition of Alzheimer's that it is difficult for the family, not the for the person who is experiencing it. I would say the feelings the family experience is a deep deep love. What I loved about the TEDtalks video of Jill Taylor was she had moments where her left brain would come in. With the condition of Alzheimer's this too happens, and we equate to life as we equate right with reality. Where in essence it is a tiny speck of who the person is. When you align with someone who has the condition you will be energized for they are in their stellar memory. The one thing Eckhart Tolle shares is these people, or anyone with a affliction are the real gurus.

I feel when we feel their form is wasted they are just activating our own pain body. We all have a thinking disease, as Eckhart Tolle would call a mental noise mind. Osho shares the three states of consciousness are becoming one: sleeping, day dreaming and walking. Those who experience Alzheimer's or dementia.. which is very different are teaching us to bridge where there is no difference. love patty

Well said Todd.

The experience of what is beyond mind is to a certain extent like the experience of love-at-fist-sight, only at a far deeper level. And like love we cannot really describe it to an other who has not had it yet CANNOT STOP DESCRIBING IT. we have filled books describing it just as we have filled books to describe the socalled 'beyond mind' experience.

Mieke, we must not interfere with nature's natural way, who knows the apparent suferer may be learning her last but most important lessons about this life or via-a-via this life or body and soul.

Harb

Well I have a question. How would one describe something that is "beyond mind/consciousness" but is still present in mind/consciousness?

Isn't that why those sages who have experienced enlightenment say it's not describable. If we describe enlightment or awareness of that which is beyond mind or our own experiences isn't it possible that we are describing what it's not?

Dear Bonnie,

Yes, we can at least try to talk about Eternity, but it being Pure Space it makes it difficult.

When Enlightenment happens is like hole opens up (rapidly) in the white of consciousness, and your in Absolute Space. You see it happen but you don’t feel anything nor do you move. You realize it was only consciousness which was moving and you are the permanent stillness behind it, which has been in this realm all along. There you are in the middle of a huge darkish hemisphere, which is illuminated by the light of the Almighty. The universe is nowhere in sight like it was an illusion to begin with, a dream. You can see clearly to the distant end, despite the darkness, and the dim light of Awareness which is ever still, soft, and pure lights up the cavern. There is no visible forms at all for they are all liquidated to nothing, the Eternal solvent. The starting point and the grand finale for all. An awareness of being eternal, complete and attribute-less, is your identity, the one you used to know is now a distant mirage. Awareness is not a physical feeling but a sense (for lack of a better word) of eternal presence in unity with the Almighty. Face to face with God, that identity is so sublime and perfect, not needing, asking, or having any traits that can be taken away anymore. I wanted to stay and break free from the body for good, but no chance of it. About a half a minute later the veil of consciousness came back and it was a smooth and feelingess transition, similar to my entry. I have more to tell you, but it will have to wait until I find away to describe it. ~Kurt~

Aloha Everyone

There are two facts: One we will die. Second: we don't know when or how. We have many mini deaths to assist us when we do make our transition. I feel that in witnessing someone come back into say walking conscious and leave again we are witnessing a mini death. We are evolving to know not knowing when and how is delightful uncertainty. love patty of to work:) aligning the known becoming unknown, the miracle of collapsing form

dear Patty,
being in my father's presence as he took his last breaths, I was only aware of ... connectedness of Love - which stretches endlessly ...

a very blessed and special experience I treasure.

Thank you for your sharing. You bring so many ideas to the discussions, as everyone here does.

lots of love,
~ Kate

Old definitions
Old descriptions
Old masters
Unless one awakens to Now...
Awakens to Unity (Infinity)

The ego identity is derived from the old.
Old definitions.
Old descriptions.
Todd

Dear Kurt, dear Bonnie, dear Harb,

Thanks for your comments. Three persons, three different views. I can relate to all three :)

And yes, Patty, delightful uncertainty.

And Todd: beyond the old there is no choice, just awareness.

And in the end Kate, it all is Love, stretched endlessly.

It is about acceptance of what is, appreciation and non-resistance :)

Entanglement - disentanglement.......

Thanks,

Mieke

Dear Avtar,

I enjoyed your thought provoking post, as always.

And here are my definitions:

The local mind is consciousness that is bound within us, so it's limited by us, since we perceive ourselves as separated.

The non-local mind is the consciousness of all things, so it is unity consciousness, i.e., the One Mind. We can experience the non-local One Mind, if we open up to it.

Love, Char

PS: I wonder if there is also a pill for spontaneous kinetic energy? Can you help me here Kan?

Hi Char,

In our country they would call it: the pill of Drion.

Just a joke, but if you google it, well you’ll find this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drion's_pill

Love, Mieke

That's funny Mieke and good advise too :-)

Love, Char

Dear Friends:

Thanks for good thoughts, questions, and discussions.
I am on travel and will answer questions/comments in my part 2 post tomorrow.

- Avtar

Avtar,

What do you think of this?

RTG Black Hole Transcendence Theory
~self

So I was running the black hole simulation and I just reversed some polarity and it turned inside out, the screen went pure white. I pondered this and I realized something thanks to Arthur C. Clark choosing to leave on the day that the most powerful on record bursts visible to the naked eye, 5 bursts counted, with some brilliant afterglows) of energy entered our present moment. Named GRB 080319B, Scientists detected an interstellar explosion so bright that it was briefly visible to the naked eye—from 7.5 billion light-years away, from half way across the observable universe. The bursts are the most brilliant occurrences in the universe after the big bang. GRB 080319B's afterglows, for instance, shone 2.5 million times more intensely than the brightest supernova on record. We are trying to understand what mechanism in the universe can produce such enormous releases of energy, March 18 and March 19th depending on your planet coordinates and timing.
I call this the Arthur C. Clarke coincidental leading to the discovery of the black hole enlightenment threshold.
With the recent collective questioning regarding where did all the anti-matter (opposite polarity matter) go it provided the next stepping stone.
Matter and Anti-Matter black holes and the enlightenment threshold. Both Matter and Anti-matter are operated on by gravity. So suppose for some reason anti-matter ended up contained in black holes and regular matter did not to the same degree. We have black holes consisting of primarily anti-matter sucking up matter.
What happens in the black hole is eventually sucks up a combination of matter or a combination including anti-matter. They annihilate each other reducing the mass that maintains the gravity containment field. An enlightenment threshold is reached where the gravitational containment field decreases such that an enormous explosion occurs, the black hole turns inside out, the vector of flow reverses inward to outward. Having it’s mass converted to energy via matter / anti-matter reactions.

What we are talking about is the matter / anti-matter annihilation producing gamma energy converts the mass of the black whole over time leading to the breakdown of the gravity containment field which may occur in degrees of step down and expulsion or release of an incomprehensible massive amount of energy which fuels the universe.

The key practical application which relates to a warp drive engine lies in the possibility that it takes less “energy” to reverse the polarity of matter allowing matter / anti-matter fuel injectors to feed a cavity producing gamma energy that is greater than the energy required to switch the polarity of matter.

This of course is not “The” Revelation leading to the scientific bases of oneness, and does not have anything to do with the energy device that we can currently build provided when I get some funding.

Only Moon Mind can define the universal consciousness as non-local, while mind is a local phenomenon. As if light is non-local, while darkness is local phenomenon.
Now if this moon mind become conscious, he loose non-local and local phenomenon because consciousness is not a phenomenon.
Moon mind is like a blind man, who is talking about light, while to realize light needs a surgery of eyes not explanation.
Meditation is the Only Medicine!!!

Hi Avtar:

This taste of your paper makes me want to read more. Will there be a way to get hold of of the final paper following your presentation? I'm very interested.

All best,

Alison

Hi Avtar:

This taste of your paper makes me want to read more. Will there be a way to get hold of of the final paper following your presentation? I'm very interested.

All best,

Alison

Thank you, this series is informative. I can accept universal consciousness as non-local, while mind is a local phenomenon, although in Buddhism Mind can also be nonlocal, but overall it works to communicate a premise.

Perhaps to bring some context to prior comments, let me provide a quote: "...thought-based consciousness (Chitta) is not the ultimate even in its cosmic dimensions. It is still a type of matter and not the pure immaterial Spirit. Beyond conditioned consciousness, both individual and cosmic, resides the Supreme Self, or Pure Consciousness. Unconditioned consciousness is called Chit in Sanskrit, compared to which conditioned consciousness (Chitta), including that of the Creator, are but reflections." --Dr. David Frawley

Thank you, this series is informative. I can accept universal consciousness as non-local, while mind is a local phenomenon, although in Buddhism Mind can also be nonlocal, but overall it works to communicate a premise.

Perhaps to bring some context to prior comments, let me provide a quote: "...thought-based consciousness (Chitta) is not the ultimate even in its cosmic dimensions. It is still a type of matter and not the pure immaterial Spirit. Beyond conditioned consciousness, both individual and cosmic, resides the Supreme Self, or Pure Consciousness. Unconditioned consciousness is called Chit in Sanskrit, compared to which conditioned consciousness (Chitta), including that of the Creator, are but reflections." --Dr. David Frawley

Thank you, this series is informative. I can accept universal consciousness as non-local, while mind is a local phenomenon, although in Buddhism Mind can also be nonlocal, but overall it works to communicate a premise.

Perhaps to bring some context to prior comments, let me provide a quote: "...thought-based consciousness (Chitta) is not the ultimate even in its cosmic dimensions. It is still a type of matter and not the pure immaterial Spirit. Beyond conditioned consciousness, both individual and cosmic, resides the Supreme Self, or Pure Consciousness. Unconditioned consciousness is called Chit in Sanskrit, compared to which conditioned consciousness (Chitta), including that of the Creator, are but reflections." --Dr. David Frawley