Wasn't the physical mind created to perceive the absolute?

eventually?

derek

I don't know the answer to that question. That question does not make sense to me. It's like asking: Is it darker outside or at night?

To me the absolute can not be perceived. In order to perceive anything, one has to be separated from it. If I am separated from it...it's not the absolute.

Consciousness is not the absolute (in my world : )Consciousness is the ability to perceive, which includes that which is perceived and that which is not perceived: duality

The absolute is beyond consciousness. It can not be known in terms of knowledge and only known as that which is beyond mind, beyond all knowledge, beliefs, concepts, words and thoughts.

Well, one has to learn to be able to "fly" like a butterfly, using both the left and the right wing in harmony when moving the "body/mind" in the middle.

In other words: the ability of the brain to integrate information

In other words: Victory Boogie Woogie by Piet Mondriaan

:)

Mieke

You can only perceive the absolute; there is nothing else but the absolute to perceive.

Fill your busy and questioning mind with the idea that the most important thing above everything else is god realization.

The teacher Adi Da wrote that we while on a spiritual path must constantly take in to account our felt condition in every moment and check to see how much it has drifted out of line with the realization of the divine truth.

It is a lot like a guitar when it is played it will gradually become out of tune.

Similarly the conscious self when played by the mind will become out of tune with true realization and supplant this with false convolutes fabricated by a mind surrounded by a world it has created.

Remember to tune your guitar

Love Simon xx

The Victory Boogie Woogie is the image of the victory of joy of living and freedom, something Piet Mondriaan realized a few days before his death by changing his latest work of art in such a way that now it seems that it is a neverending story........... an incompletion, being on the path or being it all the time.

Mieke

By constantly trying to stick back to that which wants to percieve the absolute. For, that itself is the absolute now lost in the relative world created by itself through the physical mind.

Hello Ravi and Everyone,

Your true nature is beyond description. It cannot be known with the mind, yet it exits. It is the source of everything. When through discrimination, you become the knower of the mind, you will understand this..

When you try to be one with Consciousness, the mind stands in the way. Keep trying. Pay attention to the source from which the "I amness" has appeared.

Only after the concept "I am" occurs does the idea "I am this" or "I am that" arise. Before this happene, "who" was I?

The concept "I am" veils the Absolute it is the source of misery and is itslf untrue.( boy, "I" can attest to this fact!:)

The belief "I am" is a memory you take to be yourself. The nature of this memory is forgetfulness of who you are.

hahahah...this is fun...

Nisargadatta.

have a wonderful day everyone, ruth

One can't perceive the immediate but one can sure enjoy the ride. So one, perhaps, perceives the 'sparks flying' and gets the gist of the Absolute which in turn gets the gist of each mind.
Minds meet in Absolute Soup where there is fighting and Loving and both produce 'sparks' which light up the dark reckonings.

Great post Ruth.

I am soo with you on this one. Even the "concept" of perceiving the "I am" is another "trap" of the mind, separating itself from being all there IS.

Anyone who's aware they exist, has no choice "To be or Not to Be"...well you could decide to be this or that like Ruth says, but if you exist, I AM is a fact.

But it is consciousness that conceives that fact.
If the Absolute is beyond consciousness, and I agree with Vivian is is, it cannot be known because it is beyond knowing.

b

I think at the point of death, when our minds relax and allow us to accept what's beyond their boundaries in a complete manner, rather than intermittently, we can sense the absolute consciousness -- as we re-merge into it.

Though the experience of realization can be described in many ways, the experiencer cannot be described.

Pure Knowledge is not imparted by another; it comes unasked. It is the one that is listening; it is your own true nature.

Self-knowledge is beyond all words and concepts.

Self-realization cannot be foretold. Some get it spontaneously; others do not get it even with much effort. When a particular stage is reached, there comes about an appropriate change, and the ground is suitably prepared. Then the mind, which wants to either acquire or get rid of something, will disappear. This knowledge is actually easy and open; therefore, there are not many takers for it.
People are attracted to what is difficult and complicated.

When Consciousness recognizes itself, it is called Self-realization.

one last one...There is no greater fortune than Self-knowledge. If it is not realized, there is no greater misfortune.

from Nisargadatta...A Visual Journey.

Ref. 12

Thank goodness, she did not introduce her principle tormentor and fixation "Barack Obama" into her reply somewhere.

Again great post Ruth. Nisargadatta said that the Supreme is neither conscious nor unconcious and that the Supreme can exist without consciousness but consciousness not without the Supreme.

To me it's like saying the Sun can exist without a light beam, yet a light beam not without the Sun.

You can’t see or be the Absolute Space with the mind for one thing, because the mind is part of the dimension of matter, and can only comprehend principals of matter.

Controlling the mind is the major factor in moving beyond it, because it is our road block in perceiving reality or Absolute Space. The whole idea behind meditation and spiritual contemplation is to gain control over it, in order to silence the mind (Samadhi State) and find self-realization. Controlling the mind is ones ability to change direction mentally and keep it focused on one topic, that being spiritual contemplation, and being able to do that at will indicates a strong mind. The other indication of a strong mind is ones ability to meditate and find the thoughtless state of meditating on the meditator. A smart mind is not necessarily a strong and stable mind that the spiritual path cultivates through controlling it. The continual policing of thoughts by not allowing it to stray for long before it’s reeled back in and refocused on the path, which you’re following. This is strengthening the mind through mental exercises, and then when one meditates it allows more stability it staying in meditation, from the constant redirection of thoughts. The “Samadhi state” and the ability to stay there is an indication of a well controlled mind, and this is the metaphoric door before self-realization. The answer to your question is: Yes, you can by turning the mind off (controlling it) brings you to your goal.

Ruth, Nisagdatta is one the greatest teachers out there and I can tell through your posts your understanding it. ~Kurt~

Masuro Emoto found that water stored memory of what was said. I looked into it and began wondering how close water molecules are to recording medium with the positive and negative poles and so forth.

So here is what I think. Absolute/abstract consciousness can impact us, imprint us so to speak. We can then retrieve the stored data. Thus when we perceive we are actually rewinding to the memory, even if it was a second, a minute, an hour, a day, a week, a month, or a year in the past.

I'd thus say, no, you cannot use the mind to perceive the absolute. You can use the mind to retrieve perceptions of the encounter. Then I would say, yes, you can train the mind for better retrieval and memory of (maybe theta? or slower) experiences.

Do you have a last name, Ravi?

Or are you a single star like Prince, Bono, Sting & Madonna?

.

What an open ended questio

.

When in the world did humans turn the unknowable into a God?

False idols then, must include all known Transcendent Ones.

I, perhaps, will invent a God just so's I can say,
"My God is bigger, better and more almighty than your god!"

This God is has no image, therefore this God cannot be destroyed.

Why...I can even say, "You'll never really KNOW my God."

"My God is absolute, which means: God is BEYOND knowing."

The attributes of God can only be KNOWN by ONE,

who(it just so happens)is co-incidently 'God2'.

I can make my God a Trinity with a capital "T" if I wish. Hell!

I can say my God is everybody, and cut out the guesswork.

Or...maybe 'but' is more appropriate here....

either way, my "or" is longer than yours, too!

I should have clarified that to me meditation (thus making the connection to the absolute) is no mind. Getting there to no mind can be difficult some days. I often feel I traverse through vital information and fascinating visions I would love to hold onto. However, this knowing that anything important enough is recorded and can later be retrieved gets me into that zone of disappearance of mind, time, and thought. I know when I come to that I have not been asleep and I have not been thinking and the better the quality, the more the amount of lapsed time surprises me.

I never said, "My God is perfect."

I wouldn't wish that on anybody.

"Do this in remembrance of me, too."

Do what? Jesus Christ, Keith!

"Eat my body and drink my blood."

What more could a man ask ffff...sustain what?

It is all I need, for He is everything to me, too.

He stands erect, and maintains almost perfect order throughout

The Whole Idea, whilst juggling THE sacred balls one at a time! OMG!!!

Kan

When one meditates it is possible to witness that thoughts have no capacity to experience themselves. There is something beyond thought which is doing the witnessing and is unaltered by the thoughts. That something would be the Self. I'm this far at least :) And meditation does prepare one for the awareness of the Absolute.

But But But, according to Maharsi awareness of the true state of Reality, [the Source/Absolute/God/All that IS was or ever will be] is beyond even consciousness but includes consciousness] So to say that there is a knower and a known again falls into duality. Soooo....how can the mind "know" the Absolute if it is beyond both?

Bonnie

PS I am assuming Absolute here is defined as God/Source

Hey Bonnie.
First of all... great understanding. To your question how can the mind know? I don't think it can and I think you know that too : )

From my own experience I know.... because I am it.

I think one knows from being. Being without questions, fear, worry...suffering...simply free to be.

What's the point of knowing the unknowable? What's the point of knowing 'God'?
This may seem sarcastic but I don't mean it that way. I mean really what does it do for someone to attain this understanding?

derek

LOL Good question Derek.

Your question reminds me of something I once experienced. I was invited by a neighbor to a football game. I am not "into" Football nor sports, so got bored very fast. I tried to start a conversation on my favorit subject "God". After a few missed attempts one neighbor look at me and asked me:"Do you ever talk about something else?" Which I replied to with:" What else is there?"

With other words, if you don't know your Self/God what else is there to know?

All the knowledge of this world will not bring you closer to God, but realizing who you are...sets you free.

Dear Bonnie,

You are correct in your evaluation of the witnesser, it is the pure observer of the moment in which you are in. As Nisargdatta would say; the witness is consciousness, and the souls first connection to the body that allows it to witness and experience life. The last step before Samadhi is being in the thoughtless state of the witness in meditation, which is observing the wavy energy within. When you stop witnessing consciousness (wavy energy) you fall into the Samadhi state, because the witness and Awareness merge as one, the last step before Realization.

When resting in pure being or Awareness, the connection to consciousness (the witness, the mind, the universe) dissolves and disappears, just like the film ended and you find yourself in a different and pure dimension of Absolute Space. Once you realize you were in a film and it wasn’t the true Reality, the film looses its power to fool you again.

Consciousness and Awareness are two different types of being, one is affiliated to energy, and one is affiliated to Eternity, one is a product of movement and sensations and the other is a product of Stillness, Perfection without the sensations of energy.

We sometime use the word Universal Consciousness as a description of the Absolute Awareness, and the words can be confusing, specially when we use the term consciousness and unconsciousness to describe two other states.

Hi Derek,

“All the knowledge of this world will not bring you closer to God, but realizing who you are...sets you free"....nice Vivian.

Yes, liberation from desires, the world, fears, death and the unknown. You gain the all important edge over the mind, your life, the world and you feel at home and complete everywhere you go, which I, and a lot of sages call Contentment. A refined clarity and confidence in understanding life and spirituality, which is only attained from the Almighty vision. To see God is to have a Godly point of view. Pun intended:) ~Kurt~

what are u on dude?

Dear Kan,
great insight in post #26. I love how clearly and simple you put the things that are so hard to grasp for the mind...if that could be possible : )

A thought that just came to me:

Intent is to Energy & matter as God is to love and spirit.

Consciousness is to duality as God is to oneness

#21 No balls today. If I say "I Love you," do you mind?

Sorry, couldna find it on YouTube.

Absolute truth, man...queer ennit?

#21 What do you think, Keith......about juggling!

#28 "what are u on dude?"

On me old rocking chair, Diab. You know that, you fool! (mutter, mutter, mutter, freakin' genius, that boy.)

Dear Commander in Chief:

Our resident enlightened spiritual adviser is now here.

Thank you for sending one such being to show our entire group the eternal light.

What a relief it is to know that there is more than one

waylay to skin a...I mean...more than one way to the top! Wah-lah!!!

Identity crisis for lunch--comes with Momma's apple pie.

It is so good! Not knowing That Is, or anyone, how shall I trespass?

"A human being is a part of the whole, called by us 'Universe,' a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts, and feelings as something separated from the rest, a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty. Nobody is able to achieve this completely, but the striving for such achievement is in itself a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security." --Albert Einstein

goodwednesday everyone,

my favorite Nisargadatta saying is this,

"The purpose of spiritual activity is to know who you are."

okay, I'll add a few more,

Nothing has to be given up. Just realize that whatever you "know" is different from who you are.

ah, and this...greater than the greatest good in life is to know who you are.

Do not become stuck in what you were taught or what you have learned. Eventually. you will have to throw it all away.

You have to become your own proof of the nondual Absolute. There you will meet no other.

truly, I have this lovely book and the most lovely feelings of gratitude and love arise while reading through it....it's a magic book of insightful gifts.

To simply know who you are is so very different from knowing your Bible quotes, so very different from knowing how to read a strand of DNA, so very different from being a Doctor, so very different from knowing the Torah, so very different from knowing your family heritage, so very different from knowing how to paint a picture, write a book, sing a song, pick a lock, sell short or long...to know who you are is to know no-one who lives no-where and wonder how you ever could have missed it! hahahahah....

have a grand ole day....ruth

Ruthy daaarrlliing! You rock.

Ed x

Ya think? : )