Just because Jenny McCarthy decided to make claims that she could "cure" her son of autism and that vaccines caused it does not constitute a reason to be "inspired" by her, unless scientific ignorance inspires you.

Her claims that *she could "cure" her son":

This is from Nov. 2007 from Scienceblogs when Jenny McCarthy appeared on Oprah:

by Orac

I know, I know.

Picking on Jenny McCarthy over her now frequent idiotic statements about autism and her parroting of the myth that vaccines cause autism is like shooting fish in a barrel, boxing a one-armed opponent, playing tennis with a blind man (like the infamous Saturday Night Live sketch from so long ago, in which Stevie Wonder was shown playing tennis), or [insert your favorite metaphor or simile here]. I guess that America really is the land of opportunity, though. After all, where else could such a bubble-head go from being Playboy Playmate of the Year, to a raunchy MTV star who made a "splash" (so to speak) eating her own vomit in a comedy sketch, to starring in a short-lived situation comedy, to appearing in a number of bad movies (in one of which she was portrayed sitting in a pool of her own menstrual blood), to being known as a booster of the über-woo "indigo child" movement (an association that was rapidly shelved, along with her Indigo Moms website, when her latest book came out), to finally morphing into a seemingly serious spokesperson about autism, all just because she had a child with autism and is credulous enough to buy into a lot of dubious autism treatments? Now, suddenly, she's an "expert." Why? Because she (or more likely a ghostwriter) wrote a book about "curing" her son of autism.

I know, I know again. Look at the arguments and data, not the person. Don't be tempted to go for the cheap shot. However, McCarthy makes it really difficult to stay pure on that account. She really does, and it's not just because of her past history. After all, who knows? Maybe the birth of her child transformed her. Maybe she suddenly got serious. Maybe she's acquired some wisdom.

Nope.

Sadly, in the week leading up to the Thanksgiving holiday, McCarthy has decided to crank the Stupid-O-Meter up to 11 in two astoundingly annoying interviews. Personally, I think I like the old gross-out Jenny better than this new sanctimonious Jenny selling herself, her ludicrous book, and autism quackery to the nation. At least the old gross-out bimbo Jenny probably did no lasting harm to anyone or anything, even the table onto which she discharged her gastric contents (although those with weak stomachs may have had a momentary bit of discomfort at her antics). In contrast, the new, reborn, "serious" Jenny has the potential to lead many parents of autistic children down the same antivaccination, "biomedical" road that she's gone down. Their children may not be as lucky as her son Evan was.

First, there's an interview during a publicity appearance in Madison, WI. Before the inevitable deconstruction, let me just say that I will give McCarthy credit for raising a lot of money for the UCLA autism program and for fighting to decrease the waiting list for newly diagnosed autistic children to gain access to services. That's good. I wish she'd stick to doing that sort of thing; she could use her celebrity status to bring some real benefits to autistic children and their parents that way. Unfortunately, she can't help but go around spouting stuff like this to credulous audiences:

People don't think that the diet is helpful. But I say, "It's just food." Nothing is dangerous about food unless you have allergies. So when I say get a food allergy test, that could be extremely helpful to a child who is sensitive.

It blows my mind that the medical community has a hard time believing that nutrition equals feeling better. The backlash doesn't upset me. You know the "Are you going to listen to the celebrity diet or are you going to listen to your doctor?" Well, if the celebrity diet is making the kids feel better, so be it.

"If the celebrity diet is making the kids feel better"? How does she know that her "celebrity diet" does one whit of good? She doesn't. Hers is an anecdote, and I hope I don't have to go into it too much more as to why anecdotal evidence in medicine, particularly if it does not even rise to the level of a case report, which requires detailed objective documentation, is usually useless. Indeed, often, thanks to the human tendency to confuse correlation with causation, anecdotes are worse than useless. It's the tendency that led McCarthy (and many other parents) to mistakenly blame vaccines for their children's autism, and it's the same tendency that's led her to believe that her interventions of diet led to her son's "improvement," even though he underwent a number of other interventions as well that could confound. Also, McCarthy clearly does not seem to understand that autism is a condition of developmental delay, not developmental stasis; autistic children do develop, unlike the stereotype that seems to be so common among those pushing "biomedical" interventions. Chances are that, with the same attention otherwise and without the "biomedical interventions," McCarthy's son would be just where he is now, about which she says in other interviews as well as the one above:

"Does your son have autism?" actress Jenny McCarthy is regularly asked.

She smiles. "No. Not anymore," McCarthy replies.

It's a question actress McCarthy is eager to answer. It is clear she has been asked and answered the same questions dozens, if not hundreds of times, in the past few months.

Whatever that means. Once again, as Prometheus has pointed out, autism is a condition of developmental delay, not stasis, and it is not that uncommon for autistic children, especially mildly autistic children (as McCarthy's son appears to be) to "move off the autistic spectrum" before their 7th birthday; in other words, to appear to be "cured" spontaneously. There's no way to be sure if an intervention is doing anything to promote such an outcome without careful randomized, double-blind, controlled trials that take into account this minority of autistic children. Once again, a single anecdote means little, and the plural of "anecdotes" is not "data." It also leads her to say spectacularly stupid things like this in a recent interview in Atlanta:

CFI: What do you consider recovered?

Jenny: Recovered is when the state comes over and says "Sorry, you're no longer eligible for services."

By that criteria, it has been said, the poor and minority autistic children must be "cured" at a pretty high rate.

It's probably not that stupid that McCarthy seems to believe that she's "cured" her son. People much more intelligent and educated than she still sometimes have a hard time comprehending just how easy it is to confuse correlation with causation. It is, however, pretty idiotic that McCarthy goes around saying things like (to paraphrase liberally): "I don't need no steeenkin' science; my son is my science" to Oprah. What is worse (and unbelievably dumb) is that she is going around saying that, if she has another child, she will not vaccinate. (Let's hope she doesn't have another child, then.) She blames mercury in vaccines for her son's autism, even though he was born in 2002, just after thimerosal was removed from childhood vaccines. Indeed, in the very same interview, she complains about being called "antivaccine" and then retorts:

What I really am is "anti-toxins" in the vaccines. I do believe that there is a correlation between vaccinations and autism. I don't think it's the sole cause, but I think they're triggering--it's triggering--autism in these kids. A really great example is...is, sometimes obesity can trigger diabetes. I do believe that vaccines can trigger autism...It's so much more than just mercury. That is one ingredient in the recipe of autism. And, after my press tour, CNN had Gupta on saying, "Thimerosal, there is no connection," and I wanted to say I did not mention thimerosal once in any of my programs. I'm talking about all of them. I'm calling for cleaning out the toxins. People don't realize that there is aluminum, ether, antifreeze, still mercury, in the shots...People are afraid of secondhand smoke, but they're OK with injecting the second worst neurotoxin on the planet in newborns.

From that quote alone, the stupid really does burn, but perhaps Gupta was mistaken in just mentioning thimerosal. So I'll say it right here: There's no good evidence that vaccines cause, promote, or contribute to the development of autism. (Perhaps the Stupid-O-Meter goes up past 11, to 12 or even 13 to accommodate McCarthy.) Also, note how Jenny proclaims that she "isn't antivaccination," but then continues to mindlessly parrot talking points right off of the worst antivaccination websites, all while piously telling the CDC to "stop poisoning our kids" and to "clean out the toxins from vaccines." But, really, she still tells us, you must believe her when she says she isn't "antivaccine."

Sure, Jen. Anything you say. You moron. Think I'm being unfair in characterizing her this way? Think again. Who else but a moron could would say something like this:

You know, I could in two months turn Evan completely autistic again. I could do it completely through diet. And maybe getting some vaccine boosters. Through diet, I could load him up again with all the things that will aggravate the damage that was done. Right now, what happened now was that I healed him to the point where he got everything back to this baseline level and it stays there like this. But I mess with it at all--boom!

What arrogance! McCarthy seems to think that somehow she has the power over whether Evan is autistic or not. You know, coupled with her previous statement that Evan "is my science," McCarthy's attitude makes me wonder how she views her son. She seems to view him as a laboratory rat, upon whom she can tinker as needed until he behaves to her satisfaction as though he is "cured." What's she going to think if Evan changes and goes "back on the spectrum" again?

Listen to the rest of the interview if you dare. It's hard to stomach, as she goes on about fungus, "toxins," and all the shots that babies get, saying that she "wouldn't vaccinate at all, never, ever," after which she goes on and on about "immune problems" and how she would have done "heavy chelation" if her son had had more serious problems associated with autism. Perhaps most galling is her sanctimonious emphasis on how mothers should "accept their child the way he is." That actually is good advice. Too bad McCarthy doesn't follow it, though. After all, given the number of dubious, scientifically unproven "therapies" McCarthy has put her son through in order to "cure" him of his autism, it's mind-numbingly obvious that she wasn't willing to accept her own son the way he was.

Sometime next week I think I'm going to have to address the whole issue of "toxins" in vaccines. It's such a favorite antivax canard, and now McCarthy is spreading it to a new and larger audience. As I pointed out two years ago, for people like Jenny McCarthy, no matter how much they claim otherwise, it's all about the vaccines, and if they can't blame mercury in vaccines for autism, they'll find other ingredients to blame. McCarthy would have fit right in on the Mothering.com bulletin boards where I found that out. It's a shame that she's using her star power (as D-list as it might be) to push a message that could lead parents to eschew vaccination. If there's a decline in vaccination rates leading to a resurgence in morbidity and mortality from vaccine-preventable disease, she will never admit that she played a role, even if small, in bringing such harm to pass.

You know, it occurs to me that this latest incarnation of Jenny McCarthy is not all that far removed from the gross-out incarnation from a decade ago. She's basically doing the same thing, only in a different context. Then, she barfed all over a table. Now she's barfing all over science and then eating it up. Only this time she's expecting you to join her in her little feast.

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2007/11/postholiday_the_stupid_it_burns_part_1_j.php

Jenny McCarthy and Oprah Winfrey: Two crappy tastes that taste crappy together on autism

Posted on: September 22 by Orac

I have to tip my hat to Kevin Leitch. I really do. He's done something that I couldn't manage to force myself to do, at least not completely.

He's subjected himself to the entire episode of The Oprah Winfrey Show in which Jenny McCarthy showed up to plug her new book about her fight to "save" her child from autism, Louder Than Words: A Mother's Journey in Healing Autism.

Far be it from me to attack Jenny McCarthy for wanting to help her autistic son. Her devotion is admirable, and virtually all parents, other than crappy parents, want to help their children. The problem is that, in seeking to help her son, she's seriously drunk the Kool Aid and believes that vaccines contributed to her son's autism. Moreover, like so many parents, she's been subjecting him to a wide variety of "biomedical" treatments whose rationale is dubious at best and for which there is no good evidence of efficacy to try to "cure" his autism. Now, she's using her B-list celebrity to peddle a boatload of misinformation about autism, vaccines, and biomedical treatment. Kev's already covered her appearance on Oprah in detail; I just want to focus on a few key aspects. First, there is Google knowledge versus scientific knowledge:

No joke: McCarthy was cheered lustily by the studio audience for announcing that, after her son was diagnosed, she typed the word "autism" into the Google search engine, launching a courageous and audacious search for the truth. And what came up? Why, story after story about remedies and recoveries and other amazing stuff your pediatrician is paid handsomely by the CDC not to tell you about.

"Luckily, Google employs an army of people whose only job is to make sure everything that pops up on the site is totally legit, although I probably should Google that sometime just to make sure it's true.

McCarthy spoke particularly of clicking on a link "up in the corner" (I believe those are what are known as "advertisements") and learning about the wonders of biomed."

And it's true. Just Google the word "autism" yourself. When I did it this morning, the first link that came up was Wikipedia. Wikipedia is a somewhat unreliable reference, but certainly better than most of the rest. However, look at those links "in the corner," which are, in fact, ads. What's there? Take a look:

* Generation Rescue
* Cure Autism Now
* Delayed food allergy testing

And a number of others, some appearing OK, others like the conspiracy-mongering Generation Rescue. The great thing about the Internet is that information is more easily accessible than ever before. The bad thing about the Internet is that there's no filter. A lay person unversed in the science of a topic like autism has no reliable way of figuring out what is and is not reliable information, and all too often, for topics like autism, the reliable information is very difficult to discern from the tsunami of crap.

As Kev relates, Jenny McCarthy went on to say a number of things so breathtakingly stupid that even I have a hard time recalling anything dumber. Point one, straight from McCarthy's book:

"And here's Oprah opening the show by quoting McCarthy's book (yep, she writes, too!) on the different reactions encountered when people learn a child has been diagnosed with cancer vs. diagnosed with autism. Surprising those reactions are so divergent, because as we've been conditioned to learn by Autism Speaks and others, autism is at least as terrifying as pending death.

Oprah also cooed approvingly when McCarthy defended biomed by saying, "Well, chemotherapy doesn't work for everybody either.""

Ack! The stupid, it really does burn. (And I don't care if I use that phrase too often; in this case it's entirely appropriate.)

The difference, of course, is that there is good scientific and clinical evidence that chemotherapy works. True, it "doesn't work for everybody," but there is a huge body of data that defines who is and is not likely to benefit from specific chemotherapy regimens for specific tumors. We know what percentage of patients with particular tumors respond to specific chemotherapy regimens and the factors that make specific patients more or less likely to respond. We know how much chemotherapy can (or cannot) extend life for patients with different cancers. In contrast, there is no such enormous body of data for so-called "biomedical" treatments for autism. Sure, there are lots of glowing "anecdotes." However, because autism is a condition of developmental delay, not developmental stasis, anecdotes are essentially useless. Only well-designed, randomized, double-blind clinical trials can tease out whether any observed improvement is due to an intervention or to the expected development of autistic children. (No doubt, if her son grows up to be a fully functional adult, as many autistic children do, McCarthy will pat herself on the back for having "saved" him with all these dubious treatments.) Moreover, most of these biomedical interventions (chelation therapy, in particular) utterly fail to be scientifically plausible. Perhaps the best example of implausibility is Mark and David Geier's "testosterone sheets" idea and their use of a powerful anti-androgen agent (Lupron) to treat autistic children.

But the real stupidity came when the topic of vaccines came up, when McCarthy said her "mommy instinct" told her that the MMR had been a cause of her son's autism. Kev relates:

"Then Oprah read a response she had received from the CDC (at least she took a stab at social responsibility by contacting the agency) that talked about the lack of scientific support for the idea that thimerosal triggers autism.

McCarthy scoffed and said, speaking of her son: "He is my science.""

That's right. Science doesn't matter. Only McCarthy's poorly informed ideas formed by the misinformation she found about autism on the Internet do. Of course, it's rather odd that this CDC response would have mentioned thimerosal, given that the MMR vaccine doesn't contain (and never has contained) thimerosal. It may well have been a canned response that emphasized mercury because mercury is the big issue in the U.S., not the MMR; however, its point nonetheless remains correct. There is no good evidence that vaccines, be they the MMR or thimerosal-containing vaccines, are associated with autism. McCarthy is likely blinded by a combination of confirmation bias plus the normal, albeit delayed, development of her autistic son. Now she's spouting ignorant tripe like:

"The universe didn't mean for me to do anything else besides what I did. But if I had another child, I would not vaccinate."

Among other things.

In this culture, we tend to glorify a parent's struggle to help her child. We tend to believe that a parent knows her child better than anyone else. Often, this assumption is correct, and there are stories of parents whose doctors didn't believe that anything was wrong with their child who had to fight to get doctors to believe them. However, because of the powerful emotional bond between mother and child, these instincts can just as easily go awry, leading the mother astray and into quackery. This is particularly true in the case of a condition like autism, for which there is no "cure." Parents don't want to hear that, don't want to believe that, and thus become prey for practitioners pushing all manner of pseudoscientific or unscientific "miracle cures." Indeed, look at the number of parents who swear by Mark and David Geier's pseudoscientific and downright dangerous Lupron protocol.

This is what appears to have happened to Jenny McCarthy, who was apparently quite susceptible to woo. Indeed, she once ran a website for "Indigo Moms." The website was apparently taken down shortly before the release of McCarthy's book, perhaps to take away an obvious bit of evidence of her New Age credulity (and making me regret that, although I knew about the site, I never got around to doing a piece about it), but Joseph points to a source that tells us a bit about "Indigo Kids":

"Jenny, who runs IndigoMoms.com, is of the belief that Evan is a 'crystal child,' and she herself is an 'adult indigo.' This belief suggests that 'indigo/crystal phenomenon is the next step in our evolution as a human species.' Proponents also suggest that many indigo and crystal children are wrongly diagnosed with ADD, ADHD, and autism."

There's more about what "indigo children" are here, and McCarthy herself has written about it here. In addition, Kristina Chew also discussed some of the woo found on the IndigoMoms website before it was shut down around the time McCarthy's book was released.

I think McCarthy's involvement with the "indigo children" movement shows all you need to know about her critical thinking skills. Of course, if she really thinks she is an "indigo adult" and thus part of the next step in human evolution, she probably has a very inflated view of her own reasoning abilities. Unfortunately, someone as credulous as she has sufficient celebrity to peddle her woo on The Oprah Winfrey Show, and Oprah Winfrey is sufficiently credulous to swallow this unscientific and unproven tripe, hook, line, and sinker.

ADDENDUM: Oh, no! I forgot. While flipping channels last night, I saw that she was on 20/20, too! She's everywhere! I wonder if she encountered at least a little more skepticism than she did on the lovefest that occurred on Oprah's show.

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2007/09/jenny_mccarthy_and_oprah_winfrey_two_cra.php

Here's a latest post from March 28, 2008 by Orac at Scienceblogs regarding David Kirby's artcile on HuffPost:

Vaccines and autism: The incredible shrinking causation claim shrinks some more

"...my current not-quite-recovered state puts me in the perfect frame of mind to apply some richly deserved not-so-Respectful Insolence™ to David Kirby's latest bit of antivaccination nonsense published the other day in that repository of antivaccination nonsense, The Huffington Post, entitled The Next Big Autism Bomb.

Suffice it to say that, as usual, the only "big bomb" here is the one that Kirby drops on science and logic. In fact, as per his usual M.O., Kirby carpet-bombs logic and science under a torrent of obfuscating verbiage designed to mask just how weak his arguments are. He probably thinks he's delivered a thermonuclear blast to scientists and skeptics who tell him he's full of crap, but in reality you'd be hard-pressed to hear a ladyfinger explosion there. In fact, I doubt it's the equivalent of a sparkler, even. A wet, sputtering sparkler just before it fizzles out. If anything, it's nothing more than part two of the incredibly shrinking causation claim and another desperate attempt to keep blaming autism on vaccines, despite all evidence failing to find a link."

Link:
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2008/03/vaccines_and_autism_the_incredible_shrin.php

Mallika Chopra writes: "Jenny continues to expound upon pharmaceutical businesses and the vast number of immunization received by children (36) received by children before the age of 2."

Those are two common myths.

...here's Vox Day parroting a couple of common antivaccination myths.

Myth number one:

"And there is no more evidence that vaccines are safe than there is that they cause autism, since the vaccine industry has resolutely resisted proper double-blind scientific studies into the safety of its products in favor of population surveys and metastudies of those surveys."

There is abundant evidence that vaccines are safe. As for "randomized, double-blind" studies, what on earth is he talking about? The only way to do such studies would be highly unethical in that it would necessitate leaving one experimental group unprotected from common childhood diseases. The appeal to "randomized, double-blind" studies is there merely to make it look as though Vox knows what he is talking about. He doesn't. Sometimes in medicine it is not possible or ethical to do such studies; in such cases, the bulk of other forms of evidence can be used, and that bulk supports the efficacy and safety of vaccines. Evidence-based medicine does not absolutely require randomized, double-blind studies, and a preponderance of epidemiological studies can equal that of the hallowed double-blind randomizd trial.

Here's myth two:

"But pumping infants full of toxins that have never been tested in combination with each other, 19 shots in the first six months, isn't just asking for trouble, it's demanding it."

Oh, no! The dreaded toxin gambit! That's one of the oldest and dumbest antivaccination canards out there, so much so that Jenny McCarthy thinks it's the height of argumentation against vaccines. (Of course, I always did suspect that, deep down, Vox was no more knowledgeable than Jenny.) Did it ever occur to Vox that vaccines aren't tested in isolation? New vaccines are tested in infants who are getting all the other recommended vaccines; other recommended vaccines are not withheld. True, not every possible combination is or can be tested, for the simple reason that it's logistically not practical, but that's not what Vox and other antivaccinationists are interested in anyway. What they are interested in, when they bring up this "combination" gambit, is in proposing so many roadblocks in the way of approving vaccines that vaccines are never approved.

The bottom line is that, his protestations otherwise, Vox has revealed himself to be an antivaccinationist. No surprise there. If ever there was an example of crank magnetism, it's Vox.

****

Vox Day: Mindlessly parroting antivaccination myths again
Posted on: March 28, 2008 by Orac
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2008/03/vox_day_mindlessly_parroting_antivaccina.php#more

"I tell ya, I get sick for a few days, and the antivaccination cranks come out of the woodwork. This time around, it's über-crank Vox Day entering the fray (or, as I like to call him Vox "hey, it worked for Hitler" Day). We've seen him in action before. Be it using the example of Nazi Germany as a reason why we could, if we so desired, round up all the illegal immigrants in the country and eject them, labeling women as "fascists" who shouldn't have the right to vote, or falling hook, line, and sinker for an evidence-free antivaccination claim, when it comes to an inflated opinion of his own knowledge and understanding, coupled with the arrogant belief in his ability to apply them to the real world, no one turn the Crank-O-Meter up to 11 quite as easily as ol' Vox, so much so that he's even been too much of a crank for WorldNet Daily....."

Well now, Irvine, I had whooping cough and I'm all of a sperge. You?

It's alright, Mallika, Irvine just doesn't understand the fairer sex but I have to own, he is still my brother.

Irvine: I would like to know your personal response to this post by Mallika (ie, in your own words, if you would).

"Irvine: I would like to know your personal response to this post by Mallika (ie, in your own words, if you would). "

Look, Mallika says she was exposed to teh debate and dialogue on autism in America, my posts are to provide information about myths and the extent to which misinformation is prebalent about the dialogue.

If you wnat my personal repsonse for some reason, let me tell you, I don't have children like Mallika, or have children who have autism like perhaps you, to share my personal stories in this regard.

My point was to provide information useful for those who are may be decieved by the myths of linkiing vaccinations to autism as if it has teh remorest scintfic credibility, and blame the vaccination industry(while promoting psuedoscientifc autsim cure,) and to provide soem stark critism of Jenny McCarthy who is spreading ignorance and endargering the lives of many children whose mothers may buy into her tales by saying she woudln't vaccinate her child if she had the chance.

My views on autism, vaccination and Jenny Mcarthy are consistent with the posts#1-4 that I posted.

I thought as much, Irv.

Any chance of your response now, sWORDSman? We like your name ;)

[Did I mention, having an autistic child who may or mayn't have shown recovery doesn't necessarily make a caring parent an expert in the subject?]

***

Autism flashback at intentBlog; personal experiences and wisdom shared by sWORDSman:

Dear Deepak,
I have been ‘lurking’ on this blog ever since I discovered it about a month ago, but given today’s topic and the sea of good cheer bubbling over on the occasion of your birthday, I cannot resist jumping in. First, I want to express my heartfelt gratitude to the Universe for giving us all such a wonderful soul in you. You have made a difference in my spiritual growth that I cannot express in words. Whenever I want to recharge or even escape, its your fascinating and illuminating books I reach for, not TV or magazines or fiction. And now the community on this blog is bringing it alive in a very immediate way.

On the infinitely absorbing topic of non-local intelligence and consciousness and how ‘different’ people tap into it, I have some personal experience that relates. For many years now I have felt an inexorable pull to inquire within, and that has led me to all your writings, and to Vedanta and Krishnamurti and Tolle, etc. This inquiry only accelerated when the Universe presented me with an autistic son. The same Universe then followed it up with another gift, an incredibly insightful approach for working with my son, called the Son-Rise Program. (By the way, your endorsement of this program was pivotal in my decision to adopt it). Through this experience, I’m constantly focusing on clarifying the clutter of my disempowering beliefs, and learning to run my mind rather than letting it run me. And in the middle of the daily commotion that comes with a special-needs child, he bestows me regular glimpses of the Infinite. He has a unique presence that's just pure Essence. He’s quite intelligent, but apart from an exceptional memory he doesn’t show any savant-like abilities. But as you said, that is not a requirement to have access to the Field; I think simply bringing our complete awareness to the present moment is one doorway to it.

All good and all Leela indeed! Namaste.

[sWORDsman on October 22, 2005]

-----

sWORDsman: What a wonderful post!

Hope you will come forward more often with such an extemely articulate and eloquent manner.

It is interesting that "Spirit" has gifted you with a son who is autistic--inlight of your most developed expressive abilities--it will surely be an incredible journey regarding what gifts your combined energies will then bestow on the world, as a result of the subtle levels communication that love will generate between the two of you! Dave [David Hall]

***

As to the ... discussion on learning from our children - there is absolutely no question we can learn from them. In fact, for my son's autism, my wife and I are working with him using a modality which is predicated on letting him teach us how to reach into his world. And it has given us mind-blowing results already, and taught me a great deal about life and Being. And alongside, I can see in my younger (typical) son how he is learning all his ways from us adults, not just language and math, etc, but also how to make himself unhappy.

[sWORDSman on August 6, 2006 ]

**

Geeta: I'm so glad you're in this group. I read your comments on another thread (forget which, maybe the open thread) and I'm immensely relieved to know that there are at least some pediatricians out there that don't buy the standard line about autism or antibiotics, etc. My son's previous pediatrics practice was totally clueless about the effect of knee-jerk prescriptions of antibiotics and the role they play in triggering autism. I'm reading Dr Douillard's book on Ayurveda for kids (thanks again, Aurora, for the reference), and it's so sensible it blows my mind.

[sWORDSman on September 26]

***

Re... question on autistic kids and animals in.

I can see how the connection could be made, especially in the cases you quote (Temple Grandin & the boy Ezra), but it's not easy to generalize, because each case of autism is confoundingly different from another. There are currently many theories on what causes autism and how it affects each kid. But to observe the workings of an autistic child is actually quite fascinating. Some do think predominantly in pictures & have phenomenal visual memory. But their organization of these memories is often haphazard, like a mixed-up Rolodex, so they can't always call up the appropriate one or are overwhelmed by too many coming up at the same time.

But what's most valuable for us 'typical' people is the aspect Bonnie mentioned – that they haven't learnt to operate like we do. They operate without hidden agendas (what you see is what you get), they haven't learnt to become unhappy, they live intensely in the moment. So they usually come across as more unspoilt and innocent than even other kids their age, let alone grown-ups. If you define God as pure Being or pure Consciousness, they live at a level very close to that.

[sWORDSman on April 27, 2007]

#12 Thank you for that Irvine. I'm far to dumb to trawl.
Bonnie and sWORDSman, that settles it. I am an Aspurger whoops! typo in loving memory of Freud

Hey, Bonnie, any chance of your views? This blog needs as many as it can get.

Trust me, Mallika. Those that are for us cannot be against us.

"It's alright, Mallika, Irvine just doesn't understand the fairer sex but I have to own, he is still my brother."

"This blog needs as many as it can get.

Trust me, Mallika. Those that are for us cannot be against us."

Dude, are you autistic? This blog is about Jenny McCarthy and her experince, and her claims regarding autism and its causes and cure(science and myth) in reference to her CNN artcile. Why would you want to force others to express their views when this is not a general blog post on autism? The first 4 posts addresses most [points about the post. If you are still not satisfied, you will never be satisfied with any amount of information.

What's eating you Ed?

"What's eating you Ed?"
I must confess, it's hard to see.

Irvine: Thanks for the prompt responses, and the quick-as-a-flash archive trawl. (Ed, I'll call myself too lazy to learn how to).

Perfectly OK if you don't have an autistic child - that's not a perk you can earn easily :-). I wanted to know the extent to which you personally share the views that you cut-and-pasted here, and you have clarified that.

Your other note (that a parent of an autistic child is not necessarily an expert on the subject) is also accurate. Hopefully my past posts here on the topic reflect that – that any implied authority in my words refer only to things in my personal experience. Being an engineer who figured out a way out of high-school biology actually disqualifies me from pronouncing strong opinions in that area. It's an especially futile game in this case, because there are medical experts with equally impressive credentials lined up on either side of the issue.

However, my point in asking for your personal opinion in your own words is this. I come to Intentblog because it's a special community to me. Its mission, as laid out in the "About" section, says among other things "We … engage a community that is *respectful*, active and *committed to implementing change* on a *personal* and social level." The starred sections are the parts that appeal to me here, and I wish that all participation on this blog would reflect that, to a large extent at least. Also, to me, a community is made up of people - people with whom we can exchange reasoned opinions, ask honest questions, provoke inquiry, caringly uncover biases and agendas, and make personal connections. It's impossible to do that with cut-and-paste material, since their authors are not available (on this blog).

So if this particular topic is one you feel strongly about, I invite you to use your own words to convey them (with citations in URL form when necessary). I think it will greatly enhance the quality of conversation in this community, and build stronger relationships at the same time. You have shown yourself in the past to be very articulate, so I wouldn't think there's a need to use other commentators' eloquence in place of your own.

Of course, I don't claim to speak on behalf of all IB'ers, just my own. I wish I could participate more often and in more depth, but I have this infuriating habit of endlessly self-editing (likely a fear of looking bad) that makes it prohibitively time-expensive to post here. I'll volunteer to work on overcoming that, if you will engage in further dialogue here on this. For instance, did you realize that your posts #1 and 4 seem to contradict each other on the question of randomized, double-blind, controlled trials?

I guess it's because I don't want to be totally convinced by you.

I know this couple, they are both Doctors and believe vaccines are the cause of their nieces Autism, and the wife Jaquelyn McCandless a psychiatrist wrote a book about this very subject. They follow the diet and treatments religiously and I noticed little to no change in their niece after many years. The gradual change I do see can be attributed to their efforts or simple age and maturity. They might have a more extreme case of autism, because I know another couple who don’t follow the treatments, and their autistic son is doing good and enjoys school at the age of fourteen. He socializes well, however the girl doesn’t and still repeats words and catch phrases continually, and there is only a year difference in age. I should say the boy has some savant(?) characteristics and I only see the girl once a year.

"Your other note (that a parent of an autistic child is not necessarily an expert on the subject) is also accurate. Hopefully my past posts here on the topic reflect that –.."

I was referring to Jenny McCarthy's views, not your past remarks.

***

"It's an especially futile game in this case, because there are medical experts with equally impressive credentials lined up on either side of the issue."

That's one problem.

"Vaccines cause autism"

Let me be absolutely clear here: there is no scientific debate on this issue.

Many, many studies have been done testing both the mecury/autism and vaccine/austism connections, and none has found any causative link, including the most recent ones published in the New England Journal of Medicine and the Archives of General Psychiatry. There is as much "debate" in the scientific community on this issue as there is on the existence of global warming or evolution: none, save for a few cranks acting in bad faith.

I can claim, there are equally qualified science experts who are lined on the either side of intelligent design, reincarnation, spoon bending, telepathy etc.

***

"However, my point in asking for your personal opinion in your own words is this...."

I agree with your opinion. I will try to rectify that defect/weakness in me for the overall good of the blog...

***

"For instance, did you realize that your posts #1 and 4 seem to contradict each other on the question of randomized, double-blind, controlled trials?"

I would invite everyone to visit Orac's blog at Scienceblogs for further dialogue on the subject. The links to the posts #1-4 will take you to the discussion section for those who want to pursue the points made in them. Since this is a wide subject, for those who are really interested in learning more, for more clarity on the views expressed in those select posts, you can read tens of posts and discussions on autism at scienceblogs.com/insolence

Isn't this what I have been writing about? Nature is not flawed, our perception is. Favor not wheat, but Amaranth and Quinoa. Earth is a perfectly designed paradise that we corrupted.

There were no flaws to be fixed; we created them through our lack of understanding.

Did you all know there is a shortage of phosphates the price double in a month? These are used in fertilizer. This is why I told you to use Rock Dust and Seaweed.

We have damaged the natural systems as a result of greed and ignorance.

Autism is a symptom of a greater system problem it is not a mystery, a medical industry that profits not from health but from disease, perhaps a lack of Methyl donors at the proper time as I have explained before, are they two lazy to read what I write? Do they present themselves as the source and not support the real source?

A Labor of Love, The Love of Labor

Quality is full of love. Cheap is born of greed and fills our landfills and pollutes the world wasted energy and material. One should not shop for cheap stuff, a garment born of the labor of love lasts longer and actually costs less in the long run, and this is wisdom. If the consumer seeks the lowest price (a form of greed) then they help corrupt industry, the consumer supports slave labor and sweat shops. A machine can impart no love into what it makes, so not everything should be made by machine. You get what you pay for.

Plastic is cheap and wears out fast, with some exceptions it is a detriment to the world, metal parts last a long time and represents quality. Moving parts should never be made of plastic this is wisdom.

But don’t be fooled by a label, how does a consumer know quality? Has a company created the appearance of quality and charged a high price? How do we know? We can't see the quality of fasteners inside the engine.

Implement the universal information system. I have designed such an open system. The universal information system allows every product produced to be unique. As well as all it’s components down to the batch for quality control, such that all it’s components can be viewed and the quality of material known. It allows us to actually see the people that made the product in a labor of love and how it is made. More than this the new system shows the actual profit margin. Although it can indicate who is taking the most profit it really shows who is most efficient and intelligent in their design and in the methods of production. Consumer feedback and experience can also be recorded for each design and source to others see what is made from love and in perfection, and what is not.

Quality is GREEN

Cheap is GREY, a dismal way.

Quality is born of a Craftsman’s love for his work, this was the way of the Masons, but something was lost and forgotten, the great wisdom. Greed killed the labor of love. In love there is perfection and harmony.

Deadlines and management using force and fear, cutting corners, and cheap materials have compromised the information technology infrastructure, not to mention other products and services, both hardware and software, I am seeing this now and the whole world will be in dire straights if this is not corrected because we depend on it.

Management & Labor and eliminating the elements that creates an imbalance. The use of fear destroys the labor born of love and creates products with flaws. Management should set the intention, provide the resources, intelligence and guidance and allow labor to build at a natural pace in the flow, and a perfect product is created benefiting all.

Wealth earned should be in proportion to the actual value created and the number of participants served, so great wealth is possible and blessed are they that serve many and create great wealth, blessed are those that serve a few that serve they many, they should never be wanting for they too serve the many. Wealth created from artificial needs, created problems, gambling, control of the monetary symbol, legislation of profit, the illusion of scarcity, fear, disease, and manipulation and deception are ill gotten, and it will not be retained.

I trust the agents will covey this theme to executive management. If executive management embraces this theme, and gives it voice they will prosper. This will help solve the issue with China and it’s people.

Fear and ego (fiction based) are the greatest threat to the bottom line.

The Youth of the Nation, what is the problem?

I have noticed in the youth, a natural aversion to greed, money, and materialism because of what it does to people and the world, their families, it ruins our lives, the conflict it creates. Quite often their reluctance to participate (learn and get a job) and their unappreciation is really a product of this disgust and aversion to a system built on fear and force, a great hypocrisy, not love, gravity and the authentic self.

If we transform the system, we will transform the youth.

I have an announcement; I have discovered a new source for stem cells, those naturally produced by your own body.

I found out how to trigger their proper and abundant creation using certain compounds.

There is also a way to do the same with natural opiates eliminating the drug problem.

Explicit details to come.

Do the mothers know the mineral content of produce is 50% of what it should be thanks to the use of oil based fertilizers and factory farming? Not to mention the damage caused pesticides. You know the minerals needed by young bodies for healthy development?

ROCK DUST remineralization of the soil, let us do something about it and save the children and ourselves. It also offsets global warming.

One needs the Mothers of the world to unite against the ignorance of industry. Use your cell phones, your computers, your purchasing power, spread the awareness, save the planet, the days left are few if these systems are not changed.

Most chemo agents are carcinogens why would one flood there body with them?

Why would you create an oxygen starved enviroment that is great for pathogens and cancer?

It is clinically proven the human body can cure cancer.

Autism could be caused by brain damage due to lack of oxygen. Cot deaths by inference are an extreme form of autism.

I did not breath when warmly held in my mother's womb. Could it be just once my mother ran short on oxygen at any time up to umbilical was severed?
Could it be,later when cosily wrapped in cot at optimal temperature, I reversed into foetal pattern and forgot to breath?
Could it be when I had whooping cough and fever, I forgot to breath? dude?
Could it be apnoea?
Could it be that when I was immunised I ran a fever and, likewise, forgot to breath a while? Could it be there is an even more obscure connection to see?
Could it be my combinations,(under-pants in US) are too tight?

Human beings do not need vaccines they need a properly functioning immune system which will quickly take care of things. The human body is capable of building advanced nano machinery that blows the doors of what our scientists can do.

and they say is has no intelligence

I DID NOT GET SICK THIS YEAR.

the cost was minimal

This is not to say I did not get exposed to viruses and bacteria. Several times I felt my lymph nodes at work slightly swollen, doing their job. and felt a little tired so I rested but was not incapacitated.

No aspirin no cold medicine.

Kids, hot guns of the click
Did you know we are reaching the bottom floor
Did you know you should be looking for the door

On labyrinth-walls of fears cracks will appear
The state of empiric vertical-illusions has fall
Empty-cells of death rolling at point-zero

You'll be the first to see the linear-shadows of the past
This crazy train will stop-sharp right at your little-feet

Kids, you are not sick
It is not your fault
You are just very deep into the unconscious
There is a close-path where God is whispering life-secrets of your actions to come...

---

We think we're heroes, we think we're kings
We plan all kinds of fabulous things
Oh look how great we have become

Key in the door, the moment I've been longing for
Before my bag hit the floor
My adorable children rush up screaming for a kiss,
And a story, they're a gift to this world
My only claim to glory
I surely never knew sweeter days
Blows my mind like munitions
I'm amazed

So much heaven, so much hell
So much love, so much pain
So much more than I thought this world could ever contain
So much war, so much soul
Moments lost, moments go
So much more than I thought this world can ever hold
We're just children, we're just dust
[ Bombs lyrics found on http://www.completealbumlyrics.com ]
We are small and we are lost
And we're nothing, nothing at all

One bomb, the whole block gone
Can't find me children and dust covers the sun
Everywhere is noise, panic and confusion
But to some, another fun day in Babylon
I'm gonna bury my wife and dig up my gun
My life is done so now I got to kill someone

So much heaven, so much hell
So much love, so much pain
So much more than I thought this world could ever contain
So much war, so much soul
Moments lost, moments go
So much more than I thought this world could ever hold

So much more than I thought this world could ever hold
So much more than I thought this world could ever hold

So much heaven, so much hell
So much love, so much pain
So much more than I thought this world could ever contain
So much war, so much soul
Moments lost, moments go
So much more than I thought this world could ever hold...

Having an adequate supply of the raw materials, properly formed mucus flows and protects.

Hello Mallika and Everyone,

A family memebers son was born and very early on, maybe, one year, if not sooner, the grandmother suspected there was something amiss in her grandson, and when he was 1 1/2 to 2 yrs, more signs started to pop up, problems with language skills, passive while being hugged. Really, his signs were very subtle to begin with and it was easy to say oh, he is just slow to develop.

I think around 3 or 3/12 he started to have these strange eye movements and that is when the Doctors really started to test him, seriously, and found he was, in fact, having problems.

They started to get some one on one therapy, in home, with speech, especially, and, other therapy, he started to make amazing progress in every way. It seems that with autism as well as with other challenges that the early intervention is by far the best avenue to take. Do not wait when you suspect something maybe be wrong, the earliest the child is worked with the better the results..

Another thing that is truly troubling for these parents is that they are made to fight for the care their children need, and they should not have to do that. Any child who needs any kind of developmental therapy should have free access to it everywhere in this Country.

In the case of this family member they wanted to stop the therapy in the summer and they had to fight to have it continue, for these children to lose a day in their therapy could set them back months, it is just that important and helpful in every way.

have a great day, ruth

Fever shuts down the replication of bad code or completes an upgrade .

Don't interfere unless other control mechanisms have been damaged due to malnutrion.

#25 "I DID NOT GET SICK THIS YEAR."

Me neither, Richard, runs deep.

Ed

There's an exquisite beauty and perfection in creation, I think. The increasing prevalence of autism perhaps is an expression of Divine Love in telling us not to mirror our behaviours of the past and is an expression of reverance for Life itself. Life Everlasting as spoken of in scripture.

b

A family memebers son was born and very early on, maybe, one year, if not sooner, the grandmother suspected there was something amiss in her grandson,

There has been a recent study that links autism to premature birth. ~Kurt~

Ruth,

"A family memebers son was born and very early on, maybe, one year, if not sooner, the grandmother suspected there was something amiss in her grandson, "

There has been a recent study that links autism to premature birth. ~Kurt~

Thank you, Mallika, for allowing this blog.
Thank you Bonnie. I knew there was a profond answer somewhere.

Hola Ed, thanks you too for allowing yourself to allow Mallika to allow this alloveance.

Hello KAN,

re# 33, This little boy was not born prematute, a natural, normal birth experience. I do know of someone whose child was born premature, and does have developmental difficulties, although, not autisim, in his case.

Barry Neil Kaufmann(spelling?) of the Option Institute in Mass. has written a couple of really good books, one about his own son's experience(his own son is now an adult and completely cured from his autism as a young child) and another about a boy they were working with before they started the Option Institute. They were, really, the first people to write extensively about autism from a parent's point of view and how at the time(early 70's) there was no help for their child, no early intervention and I think it is actually because of the Kaufmann's and their book, "SON Rise" telling of how they started their own early intervention program that others started to pick up on it.

oh, well, I am going on and on....have a wonderful day KAN.....ruth

Hello Mallika and everyone--

Basically I don't think that vaccines cause autism. I think that in the case of many poorly understood conditions, people want to blame something. This is very understandable. Especially if it is the "first" case of something appearing in a family (which happens with many conditions)--although noone really knows if maybe great-grandfather had it. But I think the reality is that many poorly understood conditions are genetic (even to say they are genetic AND environmental could be a fancy way of saying "genes are just way too complicated for us to understand so we will say genetic AND environmental). Autism is genetic folks.
Autism sets in around the age the vaccines are given so of course the vaccines wil be blamed. The fact of the matter is that vaccines are being "villified" when, if it were not for vaccines, polio would still be around.

Also, in my opinion, if someone says they are not going to vaccinate, I think that is a really bad idea. People travel frequently in this day and age and may have a disease they have contracted in another country where it has not been eradicated--does that person want their unvaccinated child around that person? Vaccines are NECESSARY! Although I will say that I got a tetanus shot a few years ago and got the sickest I ever was for about a week after (however an adult getting a tetanus shot could be more optional than a child getting their vaccines).

Thank you for sharing that beautiful story Mallika. I am one who believes in miracle healings, as well as the power of the mind to heal, and love too, which is the greatest healer of all! If we believe and have the faith, then healing can be possible, if it is God's will, as I alway like to leave it up to God to make the most perfect decisions. Jenny Mc C. must be a strong woman.

Love, Char

Laboratory of pressurized-consciousness

Visual-vaccines for your body-needs
Health for superficial-eyes-consciousness

Intelligent-cure-molecules coming from your lost consciousness
Your own present deep-unconscious

Syringe-recipient of what we have lost
Of what life freely-need to be healthy

Unconscious of what you are
You pay to be...

Brother Irvine, re your #7, you have painted certain views as having not "the remotest scientific credibility". Such categorical assertions are best made by somebody who happens to be an expert in these matters, or has investigated them with a degree of rigor. The issue is very complex and finely nuanced, ranging from how the body metabolizes ethyl- vs methyl-mercury to the concept of herd immunity to the incredible conflicts of interest within the CDC & Big Pharma, and at its heart, the basic focus of mainstream medicine on covering up symptoms rather than treating the cause. If the medical establishment had one-hundredth the insight our friend Richard Thomas has, sensationalist or crazy though he may appear at times, the American health scene would be a lot better today.

However, I don't know if you're aware that a few months ago, health experts from the Federal Department of Health and Human Services recently conceded a case in the Vaccine Injury court, basically admitting that vaccines aggravated a condition that led to autism. I'll let you wade through the details, but it is being interpreted as a crack in the wall of mainstream denial surrounding the vaccine-autism connection. Whether it really is only time will tell, but I have a feeling that time is fast approaching, so stay tuned.

If you'd like to start studying the 'other side', try www.ageofautism.com, especially the article by Mark Blaxill from a couple days ago.

Mr Welsh, you are one of a few who have the courtesy to greet and defend newcomers to IB if needed. Although you may be a little overpowering at times your resent posts are well researched and to the point.

Children who have a precondition for autism may trigger it by a great number of things and vaccination may be one of them. There is no evidence whatsoever that autism is caused by vaccination. But even if it were, the benefits of vaccination would still far outweigh its risks.

It also perfectly understandable why parents of autistic children would do everything possible to find an answer to why their children are autistic and to find a cure. But once again too many TV shows will give the biggest crackpots a chance to have their say. They may have a scientist or other expert on the same show but they are creating a picture that the two opinions carry equal value.

A little critical thinking usually tells who the crackpots are!

If you are after facts and the truth, wouldn’t you be better off with an expert opinion rather that a non-professional, personal one?

Sorry, should read "your recent posts".

"...the American health scene would be a lot better today."

I agree, it has a lot to improve. Scientific ignorance doesn't help though.

"I don't know if you're aware that a few months ago, health experts from the Federal Department of Health and Human Services recently conceded a case in the Vaccine Injury court.."

I heard about that... and I am also aware of school districts winning cases to teach Creationism as science in Florida.

"If you'd like to start studying the 'other side',.."

Thanks for the link.

Walter, thanks for the compliment, and appreciate your views. There will always be some "experts" with credentials whether they are Global Warming deniers, Intelligent design proponents, parapsychologists or anti-vacationists -- apart from the possible motives that drive people which is not a clear indicator -- critical thinking is paramount while analyzing such arguments.

If you would like to start studying the 'other side' of Mark Blaxill's views, here are are over 10 autism related articles in the past year or so by Orac at Scienceblogs where Blaxill's name was mentioned:

http://tinyurl.com/2rpyau

If you would like to start studying the 'other side' of articles that appear on the "Age of Autism" website here are about 30 articles that reference it at Scienceblogs:

http://tinyurl.com/2kqnny

****

"Brother Irvine, re your #7, you have painted certain views as having not "the remotest scientific credibility". Such categorical assertions are best made by somebody who happens to be an expert in these matters, or has investigated them with a degree of rigor."

...the view that "vaccines cause autism"

One need not be a "scientist" or an "expert" to claim that Earth is not flat, or Global Warming is real, or that parapsychology experiments failed to provide scientific evidence for their claims, or that evolution theory has evidence, etc.

Check this out, on the current sate of autism claims by the major players who expound 'vaccines cause autism.'

Autism and vaccines: The story morphs
March 20 by Orac

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2008/03/autism_and_vaccines_the_story_morphs.php

"It also perfectly understandable why parents of autistic children would do everything possible to find an answer to why their children are autistic and to find a cure. But once again too many TV shows will give the biggest crackpots a chance to have their say. They may have a scientist or other expert on the same show but they are creating a picture that the two opinions carry equal value."

Indeed, Walter. And not just the TV shows which lack journalistic integrity but there are many large comfort groups both online and offline for parents with autistic children, where passions run very high and many are brought into the anti-vacationist propaganda.

#45, 49 typo must be "anti-vaccinationist"

Thanks to you, too, Irvine. Where would we be without you? Devil's Advocate.

Oh s*** I shouldn't have said that again. Here comes the Spanish Inquisition!
Get together as much Gold as you can, that'll distract them long enough for us to get away with it. (not the aurum you understand. I think that's the stuff they're after or be for)

btw is there any reference to using aurum potabile for treating my suspected malaise?
Thank you, Sir

Here's a question:

If vaccines CAUSE autism--such a severe permanent condition--if they are that potentially virulent--how can the end result of autism then be reversed through diet and vitamins? How on the one hand can vaccines create such a severe condition and on the other hand some vitamins and healthy eating reverse this condition? Does anyone notice that does not make sense?

Olivia dear, you got to think 'in between'. Lets accept that 'vaccines cause autism'. See, ALL children are supposedly "poisoned" by vaccines but only a few of them develop autism. This simple fact would disprove the assumption, if we were to follow your sense of logic, right? But it doesn't. One can claim that perhpas vaccines induce or increase the chance of autism for those children who are predisposed to such condition due to several factors some of which could be environmental, genetic and who knows what karma dharma or past-life sins. The point is vaccines cause autism. period. And nutritional therapies like ayurveda, yoga and alternative healing could counter the vaccines by purging out ONLY those toxins elements in the make up of vaccines which cause autism. And you know what it will keep the good immunization benefits of vaccines. Its a win win situation. And remember these alternative healing won't work equally for all autistic children due to several factors some of which could be environmental, genetic and who knows what karma dharma or past-life sins... So nothing wrong with trying alternative systems for those who are already "poisoned" by vaccines, you know there are no side effects, and they don't kill ...like modern medicines...yeah. And nothing wrong in trying right?

Thanks Ed. I don't doubt for even a minute that I am one of your favorite posters. But I'm one of those people you'd have a better time if you think I'm shit, than if you think I'm gold. ;)

Watching

He watched from a small outcropping of rocks as the group of
supplicants thinned
out to
form a single line.

It was the children that caught and held his gaze.

Wide eyed.....waiting
patiently.........wheelchairs.......crutches........trusting that a
sip of the
water from the small spring would ease......or perhaps cure the pain.

“And not just the TV shows which lack journalistic integrity but there are many large comfort groups both online and offline for parents with autistic children, where passions run very high and many are brought into the anti-vaccinationist propaganda”.

When our fellow humans are hurting with personal tragedies such as misfortune, sickness and death, is it ok to try and lift their morals with untruth or even lies?

People go to fortunetellers when they are desperate. When a child is missing they often pay a lot of money to the Rosmarie Browns of this world. They feel really good for a moment when told how to find their missing loved one, only to be terribly disappointed when the info was false.

Is fortune telling ethical? Is pretending to know the unknowable ok when trying to help someone.

You raise thoughtful and crucial questions regarding the general nature of discussing subjects on this spiritual blog site, Walter.

Ruth: re your #36, that's the exact program we're running for our son. And it may interest you to know that Deepak's thumbs-up on the book jacket went a long way in assuring us of its credentials.

Irvine: It's incredible how prompt and prolific you are on this blog. A few quick comments is all I have time for right now:

Thanks for providing the URLs in #46-49(instead of cutting-and-pasting). I did visit and read through about 3-4 of the references, all on Orac's blog, and I have a couple of questions:
- your web-search skills are far superior to mine. How many of the 10 Blaxill-related and 30-AgeofAutism references have you gone through?
- how much of the Blaxill article on AgeofAutism article did you get through?
- would you be willing to take one from each 'side' and walk through it with me? If you don't have the time/bandwidth, I understand, especially since you aren't personally invested in it like I am.
- nevertheless, it was you I wished to engage with, not Orac, since he doesn't participate on this blog. Also he seemed to not want to disclose his identity, 'cause I couldn't find it anywhere on his site. If you can link me in to his bio, I'd appreciate it. In general, I like to learn about the source before perusing the info.
- Also his blog is titled "Respectful Insolence", though I had trouble detecting respect in the handful of pieces I read. Perfectly fine by me; I've done plenty of insolence in my time too... just that I'm into respect right now.
- ultimately, Irvine, I have neither the desire nor the time for a fight. It makes no difference if the opinions I hold currently are proved wrong. I think it's a great experience for two human beings to connect and inquire jointly into a subject, especially one on which they may currently hold passionate/opposing views, and I was inviting you into that inquiry.

"ultimately, Irvine, I have neither the desire nor the time for a fight. It makes no difference if the opinions I hold currently are proved wrong. I think it's a great experience for two human beings to connect and inquire jointly into a subject, especially one on which they may currently hold passionate/opposing views, and I was inviting you into that inquiry."

"inquire jointly into a subject"...is good no doubt, but I am not your kind of person right now to seek such a dialogue on this issue and intentBlog is not the place for me to engage you as such. You may not agree with the inputs I posted or mayn't find much help in those, or perhpas you wish to learn more, but that is what I offer at present. And of course, I am not trying to prove you wrong, or trying to change your opinion. I learned 'something' from your comments and others here as well. And so did you by participating in this blog. Ultimately any change in beliefs comes from within ourselves, for whatever reasons, you have your standards of accumulating information and increasing your knowledge and wisdom, and I respect it. And so do I. You don't have to take it as a personal task to engage me if I post something on this blog with which you may not agree at present. I have no desire to engage you in a one on one exchange on autism-vaccination debate here or elsewhere. If you find any value in my inputs well and good, you may choose to seek a dialogue elsewhere from those links or perhaps do more online research from those lines. If not, still good. Your desire to learn from contrary views is commendable, and your genuine efforts in that direction has little to do with a possible mutual inquiry with me. I wish you in your inquiry and wishes to your son and family.

If my interest and time permits, I will address, what I see as a peculiar nature of the current autism controversy and dialogue in the Open Thread in the near future.

Irvine: your sentiments acknowledged and appreciated; thanks for the exchange!

Irvine dear, You missed my point I believe. Serious neurological problems are not just "reversed" by diet and vitamins--if it is reversed by such simple measures it was not really too serious to begin with. I have thought "in between"--autism is genetic. What the hell is the environmental factor? Name it. Vaccines...if it is mercury overload, viral overload you're not going to reverse that with Vitamin C and 3 balanced meals a day. That's the point. Damn.
Do people understand that vitamins cannot even get rid of a cold? Yet they CAN get rid of autism? They can reverse mercury overload that has caused a child to become developmentally "frozen" in autism, they can reverse viral overload or viral damage? Interesting. I wonder why the common cold does not even respond to these vitamins?
Thanks for your input though.

#55 Gentle and touchingly poignant, Irvine. Must be yours. I'd hazard a guess.

Best post so far.

I'm working on the perhaps for myself, you?

Hello sWORDSman

re #58 I followed the Kaufmann's work for years, I loved his books, so enlightening, just, in terms of learning how to "be with what is" and have a "to love is to be happy with" attitude helped me, so much, just, in my own life. I stopped by their Option Center in Mass. while driving through one day and it is a beautiful setting.

Their work simply made so much sense. I hope your son is doing well and thriving....and if Deepak's thumbs-up in the book jacket helped you pick it that is good all around. The Kaufmanns approach, in the least, will help as it is a very loving, patient and non-judgmental approach, but also has excellent how to tips....

best wises to you and your family. ruth

With reference to comment 40, I agree with swords man though I cannot pin up who the culprit is. As far as my understanding and experience go, the big fallacy of western medicine and its followers are in the very shaping of the consciousness, which I believe calls for much larger insight and rigor of debate. Primarily the whole approach of Western medicine is flawed by,

“The basic focus of mainstream medicine on covering up symptoms rather than treating the cause and If the medical establishment had one-hundredth the insight our friend Richard Thomas has, sensationalist or crazy though he may appear at times, the American health scene would be a lot better today”.( by Swordsman)

Which seems to be true in an empirical sense with in my experience, but in the end it is not an indictment on Western medicine or its achievements, except that the flaw is not that of science but the system and ideology (Mind) that operates it and the underlying reason for which could be more than one. So it leaves many of the causes unexplained by not accounting for its flaws, leaving many victims out in cold searching for explanations and alternative solutions, which often might not seem very scientific( Limitations of the subject and a systemic approach in investigation or discovery), which cannot be taken as an excuse for accountability.

By denying, being accountable for what is presumably a flawed or commercial approach to science and medicine, the practitioners and believers of Western medicine cannot seek immunity from the overall responsibility of finding solutions Human diseases.
regards,
Indrakaran.

Okay. So Jenny McCarthy may not be the best spokesperson for the gluten free/casein free diet. I'm a clinical nutritionist and just a few weeks ago I put a 7 year old girl on the GFCF diet. Within 2 weeks her behavior was markedly improved---from really difficult in school and at home to reasonably behaved as long as her blood sugar was stable. Was her ASD gone? No. But she had a huge improvement. I have found such good results with a GFCF/sugar free/additive free diet that I posted a free downloadable report on my website.

In some people gluten and casein become glutomorphins and casomorphins. They act like opiates in the brain and can significantly disturb brain function. Removing them can be a godsend for some children and families.

I do look at the research. The Austism Research Institute tracks what parents tell them about how well drugs, diets, acupuncture and other therapies work. Parents report that the GFCF diet 65% of children got better, 3% got worse out of over 2200 reports. This diet is FREE, non medical. What do parents have to lose by trying it?

It's also part of a much bigger picture. 2/3 of these kids have digestive issues. Many have increased intestinal permeability, food sensitivities, IBS, and more. Many are malnourished because they are fussy eaters. I find that giving nutrition boosters can also be really helpful. These are hypoallergenic drink boxes or powdered mixes that contain free amino acids, fatty acids, vitamins and minerals in a form that kids can absorb. There are published studies showing that these can significantly help with digestive issues. There are unpublished reports about children who had failure to thrive, suddenly thriving; children who hadn't talked, beginning to talk; and children with ASD thriving with the addition of these nutrition boosters.

As for vaccinations. Although many children begin regressing right after their MMR, the vaccine and toxins are the straw that breaks the camel's back. These children are born with immature immune systems, poor digestive capabilities, and poor phase I and phase II liver detoxification capabilities. That combined with the large amount of vaccinations and the toxins in the vaccinations tip them over the edge. Enhancing detoxification pathways, removing metals and formaldehyde and other chemicals and solvents can help these children.

Looking at fatty acid status, mitochondrial status, amino acids, organic acids and neurotransmitters can also help give some clues.

Each child is unique and needs to be worked with uniquely. That said, GFCF works for many. Don't toss it out just because Jenny is outrageous.

Liz,

As someone who is following this thread, I agree with you, if a parent wants to try a special diet to help their child, there is nothing wrong with that. As for it being a "free" option, I believe it is actually an expensive option to purchase all natural foods and to be shopping exclusively at health food stores. But if someone can afford it, then absolutely, that is great. I have heard the theory of gluten sometimes acting as an opiod in an allergic person's brain--I think it is a stretch to say that many of these children are affected in that way--how many actually have that allergy? If that is the case, they have an allergy simulating autistic affects, not autism--big difference.
As far as you saying, in reference to the vaccinations, "these children are born with immature immune systems, poor digestive capabilities, poor phase I and phase II liver detoxification capabilities"--how do you know this? And, isn't every child born with an "immature immune system"?

Many in my family are very sensitive to a list of substances that don't bother others. We get strange symptoms, and we have to figure out what's wrong ourselves. My son gets nerve spasms from the tiniest presence of mercury in fish. I react to the presence of nickel, even through clothing. Taking standard OTC remedies for colds sends us to the hospital, because we react as if the products have morphine-like substances in them.

Deepak, in his video on the "God Is a Verb" thread --

http://www.intentblog.com/archives/2008/04/god_is_a_verb.html

-- reminds us that what we view as substantial is not. Boundaries that we think are there aren't.

People react to things in generally-consistent ways, but there are always anomalies, and sometimes these are very significant.

I don't doubt Jenny's experience. I've seen too many anomalous situations. Her findings may not work for others. But she has the right to publicize what happened.

The range of behaviors we call autism most likely has several causes, and many partial solutions.

I think the most important thing is not to give up hope, not to allow frustration to take hold.

My remaining dog seemed senile, decrepit, in pain, and too weak to live, a few weeks ago. This dog is a robust character. He seemed to be suddenly physically ill. He had rarely ever been ill. The vet wanted to put him down. I was ready to go along with that, but something kept saying no inside me, and my dog was saying no, too. Thank God I listened to gut and dog. In particular, if my dog hadn't showed a willingness to fight to live, I might never have watched carefully enough to figure out what was going on and work out a solution. He kept fighting, though, and I gave his fighting spirit my full attention. It turned out he was incredibly homesick. He kept hope -- and he reminded me to keep hope. We found solutions for his homesickness (magnesium supplements, lots of massages, and extra affection) through the medium of watchful hope. He's still really old and fragile, but he's having fun living his life now.

Persistent, hopeful observing and searching for solutions is something that parents of autistic children (and caretakers of others with chronic diseases) have to wrestle with every hour of their lives. Anything that helps them help those they love is worthy of open-minded exploration.

Heather: re your 69: "Persistent, hopeful observing and searching for solutions ..." - the Son-Rise Program calls it becoming a 'happy detective'. It's much nicer (and effective) experience compared to hopeless, resigned, worried, frustrated, etc.

Ruth #65: thanks. The Kaufmans' work has truly changed our lives. Not only have they given us a wonderfully effective way to reach our son, but also a really neat paradigm to live our life by. I had tried so many 'self-help'-type approaches prior, but this one is so compassionate, jargon-free and pretense-free that it was incredibly liberating. Personally, it helped me finally integrate Deepak's material and the Vedanta tradition into a digestible and applicable format. My son responds best to these non-judgemental methods (no surprise) and has come a long way already.

Liz: thanks for your input; it's exactly what we see everyday, either ourselves or others in the autism community.

Olivia: with 1 in 150 kids being diagnosed with autism today, this community is huge. If you'd like to sample some real data about those kids, try the Autism Research Institute website www.autism.com. For a personal peek into their lives, you could look for an autistic kid in your neighborhood and volunteer to help out with them for a day or even a couple of hours.

Your son is so lucky to have you as a father, sWORDSman.

Re. 63 Olivia,

"I have thought "in between"--autism is genetic. What the hell is the environmental factor?"

That's not what i meant by "in between". There are many diseases and disorders that have a genetic basis, but it is almost always a combination of genes and environment -- for ex. schizophrenia -- and more likely most percentage of cases of autism. There are several types of autism, and children 'can' recover(or say cured), as is the case with Jenny's son and as small percentage of cases. But we cannot attribute it solely to nutrition therapy or behavioral therapy etc. tehre are factors which are out of understanding at present. By "environment", I mean anything that interacts with the genes, the food you eat, the medicnes you take, even vaccines, anything. In case of vaccines, there is no 100% guarantee that you are immune(or equally immune) to diseases when exposed to them. Most vaccines can guarantee you only about 90% efficiency in immunization, this is beacuse every individual is unique, in that they have different genetic make up, and the genes don't respond equally efficiently to a drug or a therapy. This is one reason why modern medicines cannot guarantee equal potency for all individuals. For ex, physicians talk about 60% chance of a particular cure working. In some cases patients respond to certain therapies and in others they don't. If autism research can make more progress and lets say find that they identify clear genetic factors, then they may be able to engineer a drug to take the role of that mal functioning genetic code. But even the the drug won't be equally potent for everyone because in most cases including autism, schizophrenia there could be a COMBINATION of genes, and those combinations can never 100% be studied due to practical reasons and millions of permutations, and every individual is unique, and other factors like nutrition or behavioral therapies, etc can play a role to interact with those areas of genes to trigger the useful actions releasing proper enzymes and proteins in useful quantities to prevent or fight a disorder, and if possible to cure it. Till now there is no proper gene based cure for autism and schizophrenia, or cancer, etc but with more study and with luck there is a good chance to reduce the chance of autism and increase the chances of cure in many if not most cases.

By "cure" in genetic related disorders or diseases, I or no one means that it will 'reverse' the genetic defect by morphing the DNA somehow. It only means that the genetic code that mal functions and fails to produce the required proteins can be supplemented by tailor made drugs, or drugs that can trigger the release of proteins by interacting with certain parts of the genetic code. But in most genetic related diseases research has a long way to go to effectively find cures or even effectively guess the chances of a person inheriting a diseases based on his/her genetic pre disposition to it.

Startling numbers!

If you google to find out how many cells an average human being has, you will come up with different answers. But 50 trillion is somewhere in the middle.

Can you imagine each one of the 50 trillion cells in a human body carries a complete blueprint of that body? A blueprint written in six billion letters of AGTC!

We all know about outer space, could there be a thing called inner space?

Did Horton really hear a who?

#71: Thanks, Walter. One could just as well make the case, though, that I'm the lucky one to have him be my cute doorway into a whole new understanding of the world. So let's just chalk it up to leela/maya/that's-just-the-way-it-is, and look forward to the next moment as it unfolds.

Obama acknowledges the threat of a pandemic in a statement on the recent U.S. Visit of Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd. Clinton has done so previously. McCain? Still working on whether condoms help prevent AIDS. The Straight Talk couldn't give an answer to that simple question. Which candidate is most likely to help rebuild public health infrastructure as part of health reform and use the facts to do so?

Is John McCain stupid because he’s old? Or is he just stupid?

March 31st, 2008

OK, maybe he’s just pandering to the idiots in the Republican base… but jeez.
I don’t usually talk about politics here, but I just can’t help myself. So, instead of ranting, I will let John McCain speak for himself.

On vaccines and autism (2008):
At a town hall meeting Friday in Texas, Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., declared that…….

http://skepchick.org/blog/?p=1194

#75. Well said sWORDSman. You and yours, have a nice weekend.

Do employees of public relation (PR) firms work areas of public dialog attempting to maintain fictional story lines? Do they attempt to create conflict to disrupt socratic dialog?

Most people do not know this yet: About 50 human genetic diseases due to defective enzymes can be remedied or ameliorated by the administration of high doses of the vitamin component of the corresponding coenzyme, which at least partially restores enzymatic activity. From the Department of Molecular and Cellular Biology, University of California

High-dose vitamin therapy stimulates variant enzymes with decreased coenzyme binding affinity (increased Km): relevance to genetic disease and polymorphisms1,2,3
Bruce N Ames, Ilan Elson-Schwab and Eli A Silver
1 From the Department of Molecular and Cellular Biology, University of California, Berkeley (BNA, IE-S, and EAS), and the Children's Hospital Oakland Research Institute, Oakland, CA (BNA and IE-S).

As many as one-third of mutations in a gene result in the corresponding enzyme having an increased Michaelis constant, or Km, (decreased binding affinity) for a coenzyme, resulting in a lower rate of reaction. About 50 human genetic dis-eases due to defective enzymes can be remedied or ameliorated by the administration of high doses of the vitamin component of the corresponding coenzyme, which at least partially restores enzymatic activity. Several single-nucleotide polymorphisms, in which the variant amino acid reduces coenzyme binding and thus enzymatic activity, are likely to be remediable by raising cellular concentrations of the cofactor through high-dose vitamin therapy. Some examples include the alanine-to-valine substitution at codon 222 (Ala222Val) [DNA: C-to-T substitution at nucleo-tide 677 (67