Dear Gahl, as all the signs and their intentions are in our own Self, one might say that we need to help the Aquarian -within us- lead the way.

Yes! Do! Please help me! I am Aquarian(sp?)!

Taurus rising: A stick in the mud

Uncle TREE
.

Missing: the boat, the oars, the arms

Present: the wherewithal

.

dang it! im a scorpio and in this age of aquarius, all i care about is sex??!! =P

Well....

To be honest I do enjoy reading my stars as a bit of fun. There are some benefits to taking heed of them in fact.

How ever if you really believe that you can define how someone is or what type of person they are by what month they were born then you are as ignorant as you are stupid.

If you are such a Mystic then tell me what Star Sign am I?

Without being too rude I think the spiritual world could do without the hocus pocus bull that people like you pretend to have insight into.

Love

Simon xx

"...if you really believe that you can define how someone is or what type of person they are by what month they were born then you are as ignorant as you are stupid."

"...Without being too rude I think the spiritual world could do without the hocus pocus bull that people like you pretend to have insight into."

Not so fast.

Perhaps, not just the month but time and place and several other variables thrown into the mix...that might make it just believable...

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#4 Sticking my goaty neck out.....I'd say you are 'The intention to inform, connect and deliver messages.'

#4
It's a well known fact that scorpians like to sting.........but can also rise to the heavens....
so my 'horns' say scorpio.

you are a limitless unpredictable bundle of cosmic energy . Stop this conditioning of christal balls and fake beliefs. Forget the religions and groups they are even more lost than the rest of us.

Well I'm Capricorn. I have a tropical zone named after me. Now which one is that the one up north or the one down south, where's my globe. Okay yah, it's the one down south.
Capricorn, does this mean I have to wait another 26000 years before my sign comes around?
Yo, I'm gonna go hang with Keith. He is a tree planted by the water.

The age of Aquarius
The Golden Age
The New Age
Even the Bible says we will have 1000 years of peace.

Here it comes ready or not.

derek

Gahl,

What's my/our relationship with each of these energetic force fields as I/we move through space? What influence do I/we have on them? The flowing influence is two-way -- energy to matter and matter to energy.

Trish~~

Matter is a variation of the degree in the density of Energy

With Love and Joy to Trish

igor

#7 Yo Bonnie, he's afraid to tell us!

#9 Yo Derek, you've got a goaty kneck, too, with peace rising eh? The perfect Cap. Is the wife a Virgo? They are always right, you know and she's rising in me ;)

# 5, Good one Chris, may I add ?

Jyotish is a part of our physiology it represents anatomically Basal Ganglia and its nine components (nine planets), as well as Cerebral Cortex and Cranial Nerves and the Brain Stem.

So we are literally a solar system within our own dome. Where each component of the brain represents a particular planet plus two lunar nodes.

The Greeks didn't go too far from the truth, in their believes that our lives are watched closely and directed minutely by the Olympians. After all the Greeks where the inheritors of the Vedic Hymns brought to Europe by the Aryans. The present western astrology is an adopted and somewhat transformed original Jyotish (Vedic Astrology) one.

So much for talking about the ego stuff, there is no space left for it, all is taken by the devas (the planets).

Love

igor

Hey Ed
She's a libra, go figure. The balance of the world is in her hands.
I'm just sittin' in the back seat drivin'.

derek

Yo Ed

Well I'm supposed to have tons on money!! Yay...bring it on. No poor me here.

Taurus...Aquarius rising.
Waves to Keith from across the river.

B.

From another thread; Sam Harris got it right when he said:

"All we need are words like 'reason' and 'evidence' and 'common sense' and 'bullshit' to put astrologers in their place, and so it could be with religion”.

Yes, Phadrea, “Why do political lies work? [And many other untruths] Because you can't argue with Truth. And most people like to argue”.

Maybe we should add that when you argue with the truth because of your own ignorance, you have an excuse.

But when you pretend knowledge, you don’t.

Hello Gahl and Everyone,

Gahl you write, "Since we are now entering the Age of Aquarius, no matter what your personal sign’s intention is, you have to help the Aquarians among us lead the way to a better future for humanity."

then there is that ole saying....you can lead the horse to water... but...hmmmm.

ruth

Hey Bonnie!

Uncle TREE be in a stable contradiction with Big Brown.

If BB's got a goat, it might be the mile and a half at Belmont.

The Triple Crown beckons to this speedy, but long-lasting hero.

I think Obama should go visit this stud. His Viagra is rising.

.

Waves back at chew from across the tracks!

.

Derek and I think The River brings the future.

The Land of Milk and Honey clings to all.

May you always rise to the occasion, and skindive to record depths!

I'm an aquarius and need help doing nothing...are there others out there wanting to do nothing with me? : )

Hi Keith

According to the Chinese Zodiac I am a Horse. So, since I have tons(yeah right) think I will put maybe a pound or two on Big Brown for the triple. Yo! he's the most gorgeous stud I've seen since Secretariat. [Dream on Obama]

Moves like water, smooth like waves.
Overflowing banks, spreading across valleys.
The earth drinks.
The sun drinks.

May you live long in the Land of Milk and Honey.

B

Human Beings, especially those who are Ego bound Typically fear the unknown.

Why?

Because the unknown is something that cannot be controlled or defended against.

This premise is the foundation of every religion or spiritual group ever founded.

People will always seek to exploit others by selling them an idea that they know the answers to the unknown and that they have it all worked out by mapping the stars or talking to god etc.....

Understand this and every religion, Ideology and fortune telling will collapse before you.

God is everything including the phonies and more than that God is the Unknowable because it is beyond the confines of ideas.

Baring wittiness to the living god in this very millisecond will give you more insight into what type of thing you are than all of the fortune tellers since the dawn of time.

Suspect anyone who claims they are sacred or learned because they have taught, studied with or to religious groups.

The Philosophy upon which the religion stands is sound for the most part but you can know that anyway without selling yourself into an ideology.

You know something...

I don't believe anything. Really, I do not believe anything. If I turn my attention towards god every belief or idea just pops like a balloon
because I don't need to believe in anything to wittiness the living god now. Further more I do not need to know if I am a Capricorn or a Taurus or whatever else for this to happen.

(Still have not guessed my star sign yet?)
Love

Simon xx

Are you a Gemini Dream, Simon?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3QLFFVFpp0

For the guy who believes in a universe chalk-full of possibilities:

The witty witness need not mention the cleverest mirror on the wall.

Vivian, no, actually there aren't. Others :)

Aurora...I guess I am on my own : )

#21 Course, if you have your way, Simon, we are going to run out of signs ;)
You are beginning to remind me of a very dear Piscean friend. That surely cannot be that I love a Northerner! (Piscean is my starred house of partnerships, for growth, that is.)

Yes, sure, we don't need to know this astro-stuff but, nevertheless, somehow God holds it all together and allows us each to to have a shot at pointing it up. Just another art form, maybe?

Ah, I have it. You were born under the sign of a gooseberry bush, you prickly old Gewordie, you :))

Simon, I wonder if you have the courage to admit that what you share here is your deepest fear, not your found freedom.

Remember that the one who sees himself in the others and the others in himself has no fear of the known or indeed of the unknown. For how can the one who sees himself everywhere as his Self be suspicious of the beauty which one cannot perceive unless it shows itself through the form.

The Form, Simon, is the Dance of this Universe choreographed and orchestrated by the Goddess Herself, She is the Mother and she is the original Mover and Shaker of all knowing and all known. Knowing makes the World more mysterious not less, it is the mastery over one's own nature, instead of being a prisoner of the mental constructs even if the constructs are inspired by zen, find out who you really are directly through
the precious knowledge available today.

Let me tell you this: Knowing is the secret of Life. Once you know who you are, you can go back to the cap of green tea in the morning and enjoy it in its fulness. Or whatever is your favorite beverage.

There are ways of knowing, some ways are preferable to those who are more accustomed to the way of the Heart, yet there are those who see through their Intellect. Still their are those who integrate the two ways into one indivisible whole. They are the one's who truly see, for they see beyond the eye could do.

They see with their gut, with their chest, with their brow, with their crown. They see with the thousand eyes the splendor of the thousand suns, and when they see, they behold the whole of creation in its entirety...

Let me reassure you, you'll never be deprived of the glory of knowing the unknown directly for knowingly moving the steps of this dance.

Ask yourself what you really, really wish to share here. And than go back and ask yourself again if that is true, than perhaps will you get the right answer.

For in all honesty no one really interested to know what you don't want to know, such are the dynamics of relating. You don't come to the mirror with the eyes shut.

With Love & Grace

igor

Wow a list of famous people!

#27 What's their problem? ;)

They dont know why

they all will die, that is, despite their apparently so all-knowing intellects,

despite all the efforts of the equally all-knowing intellects/philosophers of the closing years of the BC era the global civilisation too died or went into dark periods

and the present one do the same too despite them in the not so distant future

Simon, I wonder if you have the courage to admit that what you share here is your deepest fear, not your found freedom.

It takes far less courage to put your faith in none truths than it is to embrace god without conditions.

In The Bible somewhere in Exodus I think.... Moses asks God to reveal himself. God tells Moses in a fashion that Moses could never see him for the very sight of God would kill a mortal man.

(I know that the above statement is not word for word from the bible before someone comes on and recites the whole ten commandments at me)

It is easier to believe in Ideas about God than it is to behold the Unfathomability of what God is and recognize it as more than a set of beliefs.

Courage or cowardliness I say it again... I believe in Nothing but the Zero point of the Divine.

if you want me to admit to being a coward then I will....

I am a Coward.

I hope that satisfied your beliefs.

Love

Simon xx

Real freedom if there needs to be such a thing is the position of not needing anything to believe in and at the same time believing in the one thing that makes believing possible.

By the way... The guesses of my Star Sign are all Incorrect.

Love

XX

Hey Simon

Don't believe everything you think.

Bonnie

You make a whole lot of sence to me Simon. But then again... everyone does : )

I think the conversation has veered slightly away from Astrology some how...

Hello Girls xx xx xx

Thinking about your star sign here.

I Guess you are a Scorpio Bonnie

and Vivian are you Libra?

If you are then I have some good news for you I am compatible with you both!

Great Lets have a threesome!

;-)

LOL

Love

Simon xx

Whoa Geordie Boy! Now we know what your Astrological Intent is.....that makes you a .........
:))))

Bonnie

What Simon Freejohn seems to be saying at Intentblog, whatever be the topic is:

I believe in 'one' thing that alone matters; God(NOT the ideas about God). (beliefs, arguments and discussions about) Everything else is "pointless." I might say stupid things from time to time, and I wonder why I would say such things. But it doesn't matter. "I"(my behavior, thought processes et al) keeps changing ...but the only thing that doesn't change is of course God; I believe(experience, appreciate) God.

In a nutshell: I, Simon, am not "accountable" for your perceptions about me; for there is no me tat doesn't keep changing. Call me whatever you want. True experience of God alone matters.

Mystery(or not)

What is the truth?
Truth is that `I' is not.
Truth is that `I' doesn't exist.

Truth is that there is `am' but there is no `I'.

What is the miracle?
`I' that doesn't exist can still do everything fine.

What is the paradox?
`I' that doesn't exist for my-self; exists for everybody else.

What is left when `I' is not?
Am.

What is `am'?
It is `am' of `I am'. It is `am' of `I am man'.

What is the life without `I'?
It is no-life in normal/ordinary sense.
It is the end of normal/ordinary/default/prevalent life.

Is this life better?
I don't know but it is real.

What is the future of this life?
None. It is as is - always. It is eternal, it is changeless, it is stateless. It is.

Should anybody aspire for this life?
No. It comes only after the death of all aspiration and the death of the one that aspires.

Is there any need for this life?
No, not necessarily but is unavoidable. It comes after the physical death anyway. It is only thing that is.

What is the one thing that is?
It is the one thing that is not.
It is the thing which is no thing.
It is the one which is nothing.
It is the one thing that doesn't exist.
It is one thing that is everywhere but still nowhere.
It is one thing that is always inside you but you still can't touch it.
It is one thing that doesn't exist yet exists in everything.

Caution: Don't take anything too seriously.

I agree with Igor Kufayev, people in spiritual paths often fall victim to habits, and frequently use certain techniques as a way to deceive oneself and others when the user is placed in a position of challenge or difficulty.

Simon Freejohn's exchange with Igor is part of a pattern that I have noticed in Simon's long participation at Intentblog. This illustrates the impossibility of having a rational, mutual inquiry with someone who is stuck in the Absolute viewpoint. At times, it defies common sense and logic. Prolonged exposure to such views can even lead one to doubt one's sanity. Simon is continually answering any question with further questions and by stating spiritual truisms. Superficially this may seem profound, but in a mutual investigation it can all too easily be used as a smokescreen to avoid any real inquiry whatsoever. The "God/divine(experience) argument" enables a person to use the spiritual teachings to "God away" conflicts, disagreements, or uncomfortable aspects of reality. The attention is drawn away from the actual content of the discussion and put back on the questioner himself. The discussion between Igor and Simon also shows how some can be so fixated on the Absolute position that they regard any form of discussion as a descent into the relative, and a manifestation of ignorance. In this way, all desire and possibility for investigation, learning and change are destroyed...

"...when the user is placed in a position of challenge or difficulty."

Not just a position of challenge or difficulty but also in a position of "threat."

There are six schools of Indian philosophy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu_philosophy

Sankhya, Yoga, Nyaya, Vaisheshika, Purva Mimamsa, Vedanta.

Advaita(of Vedanta) is NOT superior to Nyaya - the science of reasoning - they are both essential & are complimentary systems. The most practical example of Nyaya in our world is court room procedure, i.e. the rules of reasoning followed in the court room.

"Cavil" is a particular kind of FALSE reasoning where during discussion about an issue, an opponent avoids the question at hand and replaces it with another issue: the shuffle. At this point a judge would respond saying something like: "out of order!, address the original question please! or I'll throw you in jail!"

Do you expect to distinguish between illusion & reality in your personal spiritual quest when cavil is accepted in place of discrimination?

Some spiritual people attack 'reason' saying even asking the question "How?" is sign of identification. Bullshit!

Mani: Good points, particularly if you're expecting a discussion to lead to truth. The judge can tell you you're out of order, and restore sanity. (I'm biting my tongue right now to keep from asking, "Who is the judge?") Seriously, we reach a place when no discussion can further lead to truth. Discussion of truth leads up to that point, and at that point alone are the questioner, question, and answer.

To see truth as dependent on words, or expressions of opinion, would be to distort the nature of truth. Nonetheless, our words can assist with discovery of truth, and you're right that obfuscation, distraction, or repetition of rote formats will not assist discovery. If discussion does turn one "back" to oneself, it's important that such discussion be "in tune" with the questioner, rather than a rote presentation (that never will assist 'turning to self').

I propose that the full truth isn't debatable, won't be found in a courtroom, and doesn't depend on either sanity nor irrationality. If you say that I'm doing some kind of shuffle to avoid expressing that truth clearly, I would say I'm doing my best, but I realize we each find that truth according to our awareness, and not based on someone else's description.

Thanks for bringing up these issues, Mani, as I agree discrimination is important. I am glad you are questioning ways that truth is presented, and calling attention to formulaic responses. However, I agree also that there is a good reason that some who engage in spiritual discussions don't get overly descriptive -- stick to a few key points -- and turn questions back to the questioner.

Please tell me ...

Can't remember what comes next, scratching head...

Is it "... that you love me Junie Moon" ??

Nah...

Is it "... that you don't really believe in astrology." ??

Yes, that's it.

Please tell me that you don't really buy into that {insert expression here}.

love,
preity (one of)

# 40 - 43 A valuable insight into the nature of enquiry.

Freyja, thank you for seeing and sharing the obvious. I have great respect for teachers like J. Krishnamurti, Osho, Nisargatta Maharaj who have been expounding the radical approach and came to be known as great nihilists each in his own right.

It is interesting that in the case of Krishnamurti and Osho, both denied the validity of any kind of knowledge, yet both were refined intellectuals with education, which allowed them to court the audiences from the elitists clubs in Europe and America to the village gatherings in Asia.

The story of Sri Nisargatta Maharaj is unique, one should not forget the very human in nature experiences he had to go through in order to arrive to the condition beyond conditioning.
I am talking here of the death of his wife and daughter within a very short time.

* * *

Mani, good reference to Indian Philosophy and an exposition thereafter. I am a bit reluctant to agree on the reference to Wikipedia page though I know it meant for those who aren’t familiar with the term. Wiki page on the subject tend to simplify and somewhat incoherent in failing to show the strength and vitality of the Darshanas which, as you rightly pointed out :’’essential & complementary Systems’’.

It would be better to place them ( six systems) in their sequential order, making them a reflection of the creative principle of ‘’Unity-Becaming-Diversity’’, which has been reversed (traced back) as ‘’Diversity-Becoming-Unity’’, thus giving birth to all the six systems.

Nyaya - Vaisheshika – Samkhya – Yoga - Karma Mimansa – Vedanta.

Where some of them deal with the particular aspect of diversity (Nyaya, Vaisheshika, Samkhya, Mimansa) while others stitch all of them together ( Yoga and Vedanta) into Oneness of vision.

Nyaya – the since of reasoning, expounded by rishi Gautama.

Vaisheshika – the science of qualities, expounded by rishi Kanada.

Samkhya – the science of numbers ( literally pertaining to number), expounded by rishi Kapila.

Yoga – the science of direct perception, expounded by Patanjali.
Mimansa – the science of investigation into the nature of action, expounded by rishi Jaimini.

Vedanta – the science of complete knowledge, beyond knowing, (literally the end of knowledge), expounded by rishi Vyasa.

Jai Guru Dev

igor

"The "God/divine(experience) argument" enables a person to use the spiritual teachings to "God away" conflicts, disagreements, or uncomfortable aspects of reality. "

to "God away" WOW That is sheer Brilliance.

I already said something similar to this years ago on here that an enlightened master told me.

"Narcissus's best game - Is The spiritual game"

All of your ideas about portions of philosophy from different parts of the world are meaningless to me. That does not mean I would not find them Interesting or even enjoy them or recognise certain truths from them. There is no way they would make me believe anything though, because I have no use for beliefs anymore.

I am a total none believer.

Love

Simon xx

Reason is limited, however, it can be a path to God for some provided a particular angle is taken. Let's not deny reason because doing so robs life of wholeness.

Love too is limited, at least in the sense that humans typically confuse egoic need with higher love. Shall we deny love because the typical human experience of it is limited?

Just as reason always fails to capture the essence of God, so does beauty. Because no sunset or work of art - a la Monet's soleil levant or Haystacks - or scene of nature fails to capture the totality of God, shall we also deny beauty?

Fine with me if your preference is too see the cosmos as beyond description. I believe this is one of the essential viewpoints. However, I acknowledge that others must attempt to describe that which is beyond description. Is this community mature enough to embrace diverse views?

One should not of course confuse the concept of God as infinite & unknowable & indescribable, with a procedure of investigation using reason (Nyaya philosophy)

Yes, God as indescribable is, IMHO, a valid perspective, infact an absolutely essential perspective.

However, this does not invalid reason. Reason is also an absolutely essential tool for gaining knowledge. We can't function in the world without
it. And, for some, it can be a way to God.

There are traps in the way of Love: for example when love is tainted by self interest and thereby fails to expand to the supreme. There are traps on the way of Reason, for example, one may get stuck in a particular view point & operate out of the pattern of memory and logical fallacies and ambiguity which is fundamental and inherent to (programming)languages based on logic(as Godel showed/proved); no less the human languages.

An analogy about diversity: if one's heart expands in the fullness/wholeness of light, who can deny? But we know that light is both particle(parts &
division) & wave(wholeness). What you see depends on what you look for or what you are attuned to. While celebrating wholeness(wave), we must also
acknowledge the perspective of division(particle)? Otherwise our wholeness is limited?!

Reason & Love are just two different colors in the rainbow. If those who prefer one deny the other...well... our cultures have been doing that
endlessly with horrific consequences.

Many of you eloquently express expansive feelings here, and I would be incomplete without that warmth, I must have it. Perhaps our task together is to fully appreciate & unite Love & Reason. Outwardly Love (expansion) & Reason (contraction) are opposing, perhaps only in the heart of living
consciousness can they be united.

Simon Freejohn says "Real freedom if there needs to be such a thing is the position of not needing anything to believe in and at the same time believing in the one thing that makes believing possible."

What is that one thing?

Says he believes in "Nothing but the Zero point of the Divine." and says he is a "total 'none' believer."

So he believes in ONLY "zero point of the Divine' or 'none' ..that kinda sounds like the Buddhist concepts of "no-self", "non-self" , "Void" etc...

As as per his definition this is not a "fake belief" (like in crystal balls and Astrology.) I suppose it also doesn't include the 'beleif' in verifiable facts and valid theories; i.e. beliefs based on evidence and experience. In science, theories are never said to be 'absolutely' true. When a scientist talks about the validity of a theory, he talks about the "level of confidence" in the theory. For example, Newton's Theory of Gravity has a "high" level of confidence and is considered to be valid, unless further evidence contradicts it, and the theory needs to be modified or changed.

He goes on to further elaborate his life's philosophy "There is no way they[meaning study of philosophies and 'practice' of certain spiritual paths?] would make me believe anything though, because I have no use for beliefs anymore."

He seems to be talking about "Choiceless awareness." It seems he is 'content' with his spiritual learnings and practices ...and seems to have finally realized, or on his way to realize the experience of the "unfathomable."

"Real freedom if there needs to be such a thing is the position of not NEEDING anything to believe in and at the same time believing in the one thing that makes believing possible."

"There is no way they would make me believe anything though, because I have no USE for beliefs anymore."

(emphasis mine.)

Now think about it for a while.

What Simon "no beleif" john is pretty consistent in his remarks and his attacks on "fake" [aka paranormal or supernatural and pseudo scientific] beliefs like Deepak Chopra's spoondbending, Linda Goldman's sun signs, Aurora Carlson's Reike, Pranic and distance healing, people who use crystal balls to increase the power of conctration etc, etc

is that HE doesn't NEED... he doesn't have no USE ...of any beliefs to believe in the "one thing" which he believes is important to all this "believing" about this "one thing" or "fake" things that need not(or should not) be believed, and everything else for which "believing" is immaterial.

Did anyone else notice, he is talking about HIS "need" and "no use" for HIM. It seems he thinks that he has evolved so much in his spiritual paths that he has attained a certain standard, as John pointed out, where is quiet comfortable and content.

That should be "power of concentration"

Dear Simon,

Please check in the dictionary the difference between [believing] and [knowing], between [belief] and [knowledge].

Love

igor

Mr. Welsh, you along with some of the other participants on this thread, are a treat to read.

You seem to be willing, knowledgeable and capable of having that honest discussion about reason, love and reality we must have, if we want our children and grandchildren to have a bright future, maybe a future at all.

Thanks guys.

LOL

You know it was people like you who nailed jesus to the Cross Mr Welsh.

Two very simple words why I Yes I do not need beliefs

"I am"

I am the belief, I dont need anything extra to believe in than that. You can't know this unless you are ready to give up everything else.

You cant see that level when you have a morsal of content left in your mind.

"Mr. Welsh, you along with some of the other participants on this thread, are a treat to read.

You seem to be willing, knowledgeable and capable of having that honest discussion about reason, love and reality we must have, if we want our children and grandchildren to have a bright future, maybe a future at all"

Who's reality are you speaking about here? Reality is circumstancial. You are delluded to think that you have an exclusive reality. Then you talk about the future. The future does not exist, only now exists. This is where your attention needs to be not somewhere else dwelling on a fictional concept.

Yours is the way of suffering because you continue to miss the the moment, to miss real understanding.

To know this understanding you must forget about what your parents told you and everyone around you. You must drop the every day pretense of people and their beliefs and wittness the living god.

I know for some of you this is impossible and I don't hate you for it one bit. I don't even pitty you, you are just being another possibility in the divine scheme.

What I am telling you is more real than anything you can know in your mind.

Stop believing and wittness the living god without ideas and concepts about it.

Love

Simon xx

I may be a pinhead but when I encounter statements like these...

"... the position of not needing anything to believe in and at the same time believing in the one thing that makes believing possible."

32. Posted by Simon_Freejohn

...my head starts hurting.

Just to make it clear, I am not questioning the spiritual awareness levels of the guy who made that comment. For all I can guess - from his views - is that he sounds like a garbled version of a guy who is formally introduced to the Western Buddhist Order. But he seems to be even less inept in conveying his insights and thoughts in an easy accurate manner which is minimum (if not for a mutual spiritual inquiry) for discussions with in a spiritual community or in an online spiritual forum.

Dear Igor Kufayev

I see you have turned your belief to a dictionary now.

Good luck with that brother

Love

Simon xx

Simon Freejohn writes:

"You know it was people like you who nailed jesus to the Cross Mr Welsh."

You may consider yourself to be "enlightened" like Jesus was/is, but I have no intentions of nailing you.

I agree with the idea behind "I AM"

Save your righteous arrogance and spiritual truisms to yourself.

I agree with Simon, he doesn't NEED anything now to convince him of the beleif in "one thing", he "no longer" has a USE of any beliefs,

but he certainly 'needs' to improve his language skills to use proper words to make his points as suggested by "dot" and Igor K.

And it certainly helps him to improve his reading comprehension skills to properly respond to criticism and views expressed by others.

Improved critical thinking skills will be of use too.

Funny how words can put your back up so easily...

Why do you believe in them so strongly?

Forget them they are nothing to believe in.

I am truely sorry if What I have said has annoyed you old friend. This discussion on beliefs is ended as of now.

Love

Simon xx

You believe in spelling mistakes as well!

Well well what will it be next

I am an uneducated man I do not hide that fact.

XX

"You believe in spelling mistakes as well!"

Nice straw man isn't it?

Like this response ..."Who's reality are you speaking about here? Reality is circumstancial. You are delluded to think that you have an exclusive reality. Then you talk about the future. The future does not exist, only now exists. This is where your attention needs to be not somewhere else dwelling on a fictional concept."

It is the ideas, not the spelling mistakes... and your false arguments and 'cavits' as explained by Freyja and mani, that I pointed out.

"Funny how words can put your back up so easily...

Why do you believe in them so strongly?"

Look in the mirror. You may be projecting.

"Forget them they are nothing to believe in."

Talking to yourself?

"I am truely sorry if What I have said has annoyed you old friend. This discussion on beliefs is ended as of now."

Good for you. That might soothe your annoyance.

I wish I could learn to copy and paste as well as that

LOL

XX

After playing the wannabe-Jesus(victim) Simon F in Post#52 sounds like he is responding to some "imaginary" criticism. His repsonse is in a standard condescending way in which some Gurus(or spiritual teachers) speak to awaken his childish students.

Apparently, Simon F seems to have had a good experince of this and is now throwing the arguments about "getting rid of beliefs (from parents and society)", "living in the moment(now)", "reality is unfathomable(you can only fool yourself discussing it)" and such.

Simon F says:

*"I am"

*"I am the belief, I dont need anything extra to believe in than that. You can't know this unless you are ready to give up everything else."

*"Yours is the way of suffering because you continue to miss the the moment, to miss real understanding."

*"I know for some of you this is impossible and I don't hate you for it one bit. I don't even pitty you, you are just being another possibility in the divine scheme."

::::::
:::::::::

Did someone object to those points in this thread?

Of course it is about experience; the sum of all the ideas and concepts that cannot express it. That's why "choiceness awareness", and non "conceptual awarenesses" (as Todd Ingram would say.)

The Self is known to everyone but not clearly. You always exist. The Being is the Self. "I am" can be used as the name of God. Of all the definitions of God, non is indeed so well put as the Biblical
statment "I AM THAT I AM" in Exodus. There are other statments, such as Brahmaivham, Aham Brahmasmi and Soham. But non is so direct as the name JEHOVA= I AM. The Absolute being is what is. It is the Self. It is God. Knowing the Self, God
is known. In fact God is non other than the Self.

The essence of mind is only awareness or consciousness. When the ego however, dominates it, it functions as the reasoning, thinking or sensing faculty. The cosmic mind being not limited by the ego, has nothing separate from itself and is therefore only aware. This is what the Bible means by "I AM THAT I AM". The ego ridden mind has its strength sapped and is too week to resist the torturing thoughts. The egoless mind is happy in deep dreamless state. Clearly therefore Bliss and misery are only modes of mind; but the weak mode is not easily interchangeable with the strong mode. Activity is weakness and consequently miserable; passivity is strength and therefore blissful. The dormant strength is not apparent and therefore not availed of.

The cosmic mind can manifest in rare beings(like Jesus, some realized Gurus?) and may enable the linkage in others of the individual (weak) mind with the universal (strong) mind of the inner recess.

I am all for leaving beliefs behind....I just ask myself if we can truly be belief free? Can we preform any action without belief? I look at communication and if I did not believe that communication could actually take place ...even just within an illusion/dream...would I be writting these words right now? Would I write and speak any words ever? Silence........

I feel free. I have freed myself of many beliefs....but yet that one...that very one that creates all is still present....I am.

What Sun sign are you, Irv? Just tell me your birthdate, if you don't know. I do hope you are not the Crab ;)

Simon Freejohn's conversations in this thread can be best described as "ad hominem" fallacies.

Ad hominem
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:

An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the man", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to a characteristic or belief of the person making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim. The process of proving or disproving the claim is thereby subverted, and the argumentum ad hominem works to change the subject.

It is most commonly used to refer specifically to the ad hominem abusive, or argumentum ad personam, which consists of criticizing or personally attacking an argument's proponent in an attempt to discredit that argument. It is also used when an opponent is unable to find fault with an argument, yet for various reasons, the opponent disagrees with it.

Other common subtypes of the ad hominem include the ad hominem circumstantial, or ad hominem circumstantiae, an attack which is directed at the circumstances or situation of the arguer; and the ad hominem tu quoque, which objects to an argument by characterizing the arguer as acting or arguing in accordance with the view that he is arguing against....

Ed, My birthday fall on Sept. 3

I understand my sun sign is Virgo.

Dear dot, as Freyja and Igor suggested, what this is about is the-procedure-for investigating a topic.

Do you believe that during the investigation of a particular topic, that it's entirely acceptable for a person to divert the topic of investigation? This is "cavil" or false reasoning.

"keep the noise going through": diverting the topic creates more noise.

"Please tell me ...

Can't remember what comes next, scratching head...

Is it "... that you love me Junie Moon" ??

Nah...

Is it "... that you don't really believe in astrology." ??

Yes, that's it.

Please tell me that you don't really buy into that {insert expression here}.

love,
preity (one of)"

#42

I think Linda Goodman's chart is a Great Study of 'personality types' - truer and better than the most psychology books I have read.

I think it is better read as as a study of 'personalities' rather than a 'predictor' based on the 'birth date'.

To me, the key is to realize that certain traits go together, if one has one, most likely, he/she also has the other (In fact, in most cases, these two are the two sides of the same coin and they 'always' come together. Or, one 'naturally' leads to the other.).

Such as:

Aries Type:

Adventurous and energetic : Selfish and quick-tempered

Pioneering and courageous : Impulsive and impatient

Enthusiastic and confident : Foolhardy and daredevil

.

Scorpio Type:

Determined and forceful : Compulsive and obsessive

Emotional and intuitive : Secretive and obstinate

Powerful and passionate : Jealous and resentful

.

Libra Type:

Diplomaitic and urbane : Indecisive and changeable

Romantic and charming : Flirtatious and self-indulgent

Easygoing and sociable : Gullible and easily influenced

.

Aquarius Type:

Independent and intellectual : Unemotional and detached

Original and inventive : Perverse and unpredictable

.

Pisces Type:

Imaginative and sensitive : Escapist and idealistic

Intuitive and sympathetic : Weak-willed and easily led

.

Cancer Type:

Intuitive and imaginative : Overemotional and touchy

Protective and sympathetic : Clinging and unable to let go

.

Taurus Type:

Patient and reliable : Resentful and inflexible

Persistent and determined : Jealous and possessive

Placid and security loving : Self-indulgent and greedy

.

Sagittarius Type:

Optimistic and freedom-loving : Blindly optimistic and careless

Honest and straightforward : Tactless and restless

Jovial and good-humored : Irresponsible and superficial

For some the belief remains that this topic or discussion is ongoing.

As I have said The subject itself I have now dropped or ended. The Belief in there not being beliefs does not exist for me any more because I just chose before to not continue it. It is as if it never existed in the first place.

So lets talk about something else.

Let us discuss something even deeper at the root of beliefs. The Ego mind.

Lets see if I can Pisss somebody else off on this subject!

LOL

Love

Simon xx

Ed ,

Whats wrong with the Crab?

Thats my sign.

;-) xx

# 62

Good One John ! I share directly what you've stated, in relation to the cosmic consciousness:

''Activity is weakness and consequently miserable; passivity is strength and therefore blissful. The dormant strength is not apparent and therefore not availed of.''

I feel its necessary to further it out. When that (quoted) state is achieved, it naturally moves towards the obliteration of the differences between. Whereby the activity and passivity can only be attributed to the physical-mental-psychic, gradually though the witness gains the ability to retain the stillness even in the midst of activity and at the same time remains lively at the deepest level of silence.

This is the shift towards the God-consciousness, characterized by the inflow of silence into activity and activity into silence. This is beautifully expressed in the Gita ( don't have to quote it word to word ), as well as in the notorious Upanishadic:

Purnam adah purnam idam
purnat purnam udachyate
purnasya purnam adaya
purnam evavashisyate

Basically this is the real end to duality, it is in fact the merging of the energy (matter is only an expression) with its source. There could be no contradictions what so ever. Beyond that state is the state of Unity which is pointless to talk about, at this level.

It is worth knowing that realization is not the same at each level. Awakening is already an end of ignorance, accompanied by the vision of Light, and other phenomena. Yet it is still witnessed, experienced as it were, thus the duality is however present. One sees God, senses Him, lives in His presence. Glory to that man ! It takes to be established in that state throughout all the three states, (waking, dreaming, deep sleep) before one can ''claim'' to have Cosmic state as a normal reality. It is when the experience of seeing is being gradually or ''forcibly'' transformed into just being ( not in a common sense of that word), but being totally one with the object of the experience. That is being Light Itself and having a palpable experience of being nothing other than the Self.

Jai Guru Dev

igor

"As I have said The subject itself I have now dropped or ended. The Belief in there not being beliefs does not exist for me any more because I just chose before to not continue it. It is as if it never existed in the first place.

So lets talk about something else."

Sure, Simon whatever you decide.

It is all about 'you',

what a troll.

"Let us discuss something even deeper at the root of beliefs. The Ego mind."

You won't leave the stage,

pontificate.

Go on...

blabber on...

"Lets see if I can Pisss somebody else off on this subject!"

Who is the 'pisser' and what is this 'pissing', think about that.

Look Irvine,

I am a blabbering idiot,

That is fair enough you have made your point and nobody is disagreeing with you.

I don't see why you have to take this whole thing so very personal and come back with such wounding remarks

Your the man here

Nobody is arguing that

I sit humbley before your great insight into my short comings

Love

Simon xx

For me, the key to asking any question....
regardless of its nature ......seems to be in
pursuing it with one's full attention.

It's so easy, though, to get caught up in distractions. And then the question to be answered is "What do I focus on...my initial question, or the distraction?"

Even then it seems to me it matters very little what one chooses to focus on, as long as one gives it one's full and undivided attention.

Truth may have many colors, but Is Not many colors. Any issue can be addressed from multiple sides in order to gain anything similar to a holistic perspective. For example love & truth will have different perspectives. Can we as a group explore the different perspectives without getting stuck in our individual preferences?

Truth/love is quality-less, undifferentiated and unvarying. It has no sides - that is what nondual means. It has no multiplicity. It is not a collection. It is One. The ideas about it can be treasured. It is not an idea.

Boundaryless pure consciousness is in no way
the same as a holistic perspective. In It there are no perspectives; no mind at all which could have them. It is simply whole, eternal and undefinable.

Purnam adah purnam idam
purnat purnam udachyate
purnasya purnam adaya
purnam evavashisyate

Thats all nonesense young fella

It is just mental content

You might as well say Bar of Soap
Bar of Soap
Bar of Soap
Bar of Soap

You don't need any of that to recognise anything.

get rid of it all even the bit that thinks I don't know what I am talking about.... and then, only then wil you really be talking!

Love

The Blabbering Idiot xx

Simon, I have my last comment to Avtar's, now running as Part 4, so I'll spare it till tomorrow (now is night over here), yes it will be my own statement about the ego business.

I know its too late but I knew all along you are a Crab. You wouldn't believe it of course, but there.

Seriously you could really draw from this little exchange something valuable for yourself, if only you step down from the self-imposed pedestal. When we first corresponded, you've mentioned something which was sincere and touching in its honesty, that you aren't ready to make that last step. In all my humility, before you make that step up, perhaps you should make one step down.

Man, you are lucky it was Irvine, who is always civilized in his responses.

With Love

igor

Re. 72

"That is fair enough you have made your point and NOBODY is disagreeing with you." (my emphasis)

It is insightful to know that...

that you consider 'everyone' else as 'you' yourself.

"I don't see why you have to take this whole thing so very personal and come back with such wounding remarks."

You think you were "nailed" on the cross; no doubt you must be "wounded."

I guess you are not the one who is "pissed" though.

"Piss Christ"* John, what a piece of art you are.

*
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piss_Christ

Thanks for the original post on Astrology which stimulated such an interesting thread here. (good evidence!) To me, it makes the point that absolutely anything may be taken and misused from its original highest intent or best possibility. We humans are so resourceful!

Fortunately or unfortunately, we are not in a court of law where we must obey the rules of fair argumentation. This too has advantages and disadvantages. If "we" are just having a leisurely discussion *about* thought vs direct awareness, "how" seems as fair a question as "why" or "who". If "I" am in an immediate process of self-inquiry or "just being IT", thinking and talking about how techniques may most certainly be an "avoidance" maneuver or a trap.

I recall an example of this made by Jiddu Krishnamurti pointing out that when confronted by a snake, very few pause to inquire "how to take action" yet we are always asking "how to overcome greed, how to love, etc: JK may have invented the
"just do it" Nike slogan. If after escaping the snake, you wish to tell me how fast you ran and where you felt safe how far away, etc. Hey, I love a good story!

love,
preity (one of)

Thanks for the original post on Astrology which stimulated such an interesting thread here. (good evidence!) To me, it makes the point that absolutely anything may be taken and misused from its original highest intent or best possibility. We humans are so resourceful!

Fortunately or unfortunately, we are not in a court of law where we must obey the rules of fair argumentation. This too has advantages and disadvantages. If "we" are just having a leisurely discussion *about* thought vs direct awareness, "how" seems as fair a question as "why" or "who". If "I" am in an immediate process of self-inquiry or "just being IT", thinking and talking about how techniques may most certainly be an "avoidance" maneuver or a trap.

I recall an example of this made by Jiddu Krishnamurti pointing out that when confronted by a snake, very few pause to inquire "how to take action" yet we are always asking "how to overcome greed, how to love, etc: JK may have invented the
"just do it" Nike slogan. If after escaping the snake, you wish to tell me how fast you ran and where you felt safe how far away, etc. Hey, I love a good story!

love,
preity (one of)

Aries – The intention to do as I please.

#69 All that 'sidestepping' Simon, I had come to think so.

I hope you haven't decided that you are not a Crab, now, but that was my inference in hoping Irv was not one, given the 'shoreline' manoeuvres you both engaged in.
My brother's a Crab, Simon...okay, brother :)

#66 Virgo, Irv.....you should be a teacher. What a taskmaster! I can cope.....me, with Virgo rising and Neptunian intuition in attendance, Saturn my taskmaster, of course.

Thanks both and all for the enlightenments ;)

"Simon, I have my last comment to Avtar's, now running as Part 4, so I'll spare it till tomorrow (now is night over here), yes it will be my own statement about the ego business.

I know its too late but I knew all along you are a Crab. You wouldn't believe it of"

Actually you probably did know I was a Crab, but what difference does it make if you did or you didnt.

now is night over here you say. Darkness is jsut the absence of light.

This is how nailed down we are with beliefs you see? We believe in light and darkness, time to be awake and time to be sleeping. This is the route of conditioning.

It is ok to say "It is night time here" of course but do you understand that night time and day time are just beliefs?

If you had no eyes then the concept of night and day would be meaningless.

I can say this is the light and this is the dark and I might also say this is Monday or Tuesday and it is the afternoon time and I might even believe that for a moment. But.... at my core, at my deeper level of understanding I know that these beliefs are untruths.

Monday and Tuesday dont really exist.....

Go even deeper than that and you will find that even you will dissapear completely.

I remeber a while back when this understanding uncovered itself to me. I told it to an enlightened master. He agreed with me entirely and recognised what I had said to him as a truth. Then he tested me and I failed his test badly.

he said

"If you continue with this understanding then you will eventually dissapear"

Then I was afraid.....

You see I love being who I am and If I really take this persuit of the deepest truth then the me who lives in this world will unmask God and as it said in the Bible a mortal man can not know or see the form of God without it killing him.

That metaphor from the bible is 100% true. The mortal man is infact the Ego Mind. To unmask god would destroy the Ego Mind and end me as a person. I am afraid to do that because I enjoy being who I am. I even enjoy being egotistical and winding people up sometimes.

It is great to be alive, It is great to have ideas and to believe in those ideas and I love doing that. It is also fantastic to see others believing in something and creating from that belief. The belief in God does not really have to be in any format in particular. It is just the response in which different people relate to the divine grace of the unknowable Divine Lord.

The level I was talking from earlier is what is known as Seventh Stage realisation. It is the point of no return where all beliefs are invalid. At the seventh stage all levels fade out to the absolute direct surrender to God without concepts of God.

You have to be ready to take this leap

I am not.

You are right about me Igor I am afraid to believe in the unbelievable for it will end me as I know it.

Love

Simon xx

As I have said before. I am not an educated or elliquint person. I can only be what I am.

There are how ever people who are able to explain none conceptual approaches to the Divine or the Seventh Stage in a way that may be more understandable for you.

If you click on my name or follow this link it will give you some idea about what I was talking about earlier today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrCWaHbWtKo&feature=related

Love

Simon xx

Simone, post 79...I understand that metaphor a little different. Maybe it matters...maybe not.

To die to yourself does not mean a physical death but the death to an illusion...your identity as Simon...as a humanbeing...to die to all your beliefs. What is life to spirit is death to the ego.

From your posts, I would say Simone is already dead : )

Sorry for misspelling your name...twice : (

O.K. Simon, I followed your name to my favorite Author : ) but this video is confusing.

On the one side it teaches we are the I am and then in then takes you through I short meditation into the nothingness.

I am and nothingness are not the same to me...to you?

Simon
I really appreciate your process throughout this thread.

Education and intellectualism are no more valid than a gut feeling or an undeniable knowing.
We all come to our own knowing in different ways. I respect yours.

derek

Simon F:

"As I have said before. I am not an educated or elliquint person."

You 'may' not be college-educated, but that's irrelevant. That is no excuse for your spiritual shuffles and 'cavils'. There are many in the spiritual paths who are less educated -- some who are illiterate -- but have communicated their thoughts concisely and clearly. You need not be eloquent too. Eloquence in spiritual discussions is a double edged sword. Many masters who are good dispensers of their teachings neither have/had formal education, nor do they have the skill of an orator and are "eloquent."

"I can only be what I am."

There are no limits to "I am"

Rather, you "cannot be any lesser than who you really are." Though, your false self or Simon "the uneducated" Brit who speaks spiritual gibberish keeps 'changing' everyday.

AND

imo you are posting Buddhist and neo-advaitin BS without understanding, acting supra-wise above us here...

Ref # 84
“Education and intellectualism are no more valid than a gut feeling or an undeniable knowing”.

Anybody capable of writing the above with honesty must be lacking information or knowledge and have an educated intellectualism that’s pretty suspect. Doing one’s brainwork with one’s gut in order to end up with undeniable knowledge, now that’s miraculous.

“Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so”.
Douglas Adams

Simon Freejohn: The word "Love" you use to sign off comments is "all nonesense" old fella. Everything you write is merely string of letters arranged in sentences of the English language.

In spiritual terms what you call "educated" is not formal education in arts and sciences but the higher knowledge of Self, which can reflect sometimes in the way you interact and communicate those insights from experience and spiritual practices.

"Doing one’s brainwork with one’s gut in order to end up with undeniable knowledge, now that’s miraculous." Blogscanner, 86

May I add...

"What I do wish to maintain -- and it is here that the scientific attitude becomes imperative -- is that insight, untested and unsupported, is an insufficient guarantee of truth, in spite of the fact that much of the most important truth is first suggested by its means."

Bertrand Russell, Mysticism and Logic

As always, well explained and to the point.

Here another quote from a mutual friend:

“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.”

Bertrand Russell

What is wanted is not the will to believe, but the will to find out, which is the exact opposite.
-- Bertrand Russell, Skeptical Essays (1928)

To add to Freyja, Irvine and Blog Scanner on the theme of art and science, love and truth, beauty and reason...

Jacob Bronowski:

"The great poem and the deep theorem are new to every reader and yet are his own experience because he recreates them. They are the marks of unity in variety; and in the instant when the mind seizes this for itself in art or in science, the heart misses a beat."

Rita Bronowski on Jacob after his death in 1978:

"He was an extraordinarily whole person and his thinking had a consistency unusual in these times. He was a thinking man, an endangered species. All his life he treated art and science as the same expression of the human imagination. The theme of the imagination ran like a bright ribbon through the fabric of his thought."

If you were to collar me and demand that I name the philosopher who made the biggest impression on me, that philosopher would have to be Jacob Bronowski, known to his friends as Bruno, who was born just shy of a century ago today. My introduction to his thinking was The Ascent of Man, his magisterial series of television essays (an inspiration for Carl Sagan to make 'Cosmos' in 1980) organized around imagination and the many ways it fired man's drive to understand the universe.

We often hear about the two cultures, the divide between art and science. Jacob Bronowski didn't bridge that gap so much as he made it irrelevant. I have friends in the arts as well as the sciences, and I am often struck by the overlap between the two. The best writers can get very technical and matter-of-fact about the way they pursue inspiration, while the best scientists are fueled by wonder and inspiration even as they methodically note down test results and goals. In both endeavors, the goal is to reach the truth. The artist seeks to evoke it; the scientist seeks to describe it. But each is looking for something outside himself, something true and recognizable, that can be communicated to others. When talking up Bronowski's work, I used to point out that the first two books published by this philosopher of science were studies of poetry and William Blake. Over the years, I've come to realize that Bronowski never stopped talking about poetry — he simply switched his terms from meter and scansion to protons and wavelengths.

One of the cornerstones of Bronowski's philosophy of life is that the questing, questioning nature of science is humanity's best defense against the brutish certainties that create wars and catastrophes. The fact that the Nazis deployed the most advanced technology available for the most primitive ends imaginable does not make science the mistress of the gas chamber.

Bronowski address this directly in "Knowledge or Certainty," one of the most powerful essays in The Ascent of Man. The episode ends with Bronowski standing outside the concentration camp where most of his relatives met a horrible fate. Science did not create this disaster, he explains. It was created by certainty — by the lethal certainties of closed, bigoted minds that believed they held all the answers, and were prepared to use them to decide whether entire races of people deserved to exist.

The conclusion is below. I invite you to watch it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mIfatdNqBA

I doubt there's a more moving moment on all of television.

I got the birth and death date references of Bronowski wrong in the above post. According to Wikipedia he lived from January 18, 1908 - August 22, 1974.

Dear Vivian

You have my permission to call me what ever you would like, I am nameless anyway.

I see what you are saying about Nisargadatta, I don't really know what to say to that other than make of it what you will.

As regards The death of the Ego, I agree with you entirely that the Ego dying does not mean I will die. How ever Me as an Identity would die.

I am still very much fixed here and now in an ego state take my word for it. If I was not I would not be bothering to post here for a start with an angry mob attacking me from the four corners of the globe

LOL

Igor. Love Simon xx

The intention to argue pointlessly across many a mile--

The intention to bring a competitive edge to the spiritual plane--

The intention of quoting a genius and taming the sacred shrew--

The intention of walking all over other human beings because, "I am, so I can"--

The intention of pointing out that wisdom is relative to direct experience--

The Golden Rule was intended, and was impartially mended by a silver thread.

The intention to argue pointlessly across many a mile--

The intention to bring a competitive edge to the spiritual plane--

The intention of quoting a genius and taming the sacred shrew--

The intention of walking all over other human beings because, "I am, so I can"--

The intention of pointing out that wisdom is relative to direct experience--

The Golden Rule was intended, and was impartially mended by a silver thread.

"imo you are posting Buddhist and neo-advaitin BS without understanding, acting supra-wise above us here..."

John, that's heavy leaning on Simon for a discussion i started and things i pronounced before him, as if you did not want to tell me these and used him instead, if you are influenced by some good things i told you and bad things i said about Simon, ... well i changed my mind, today he agree with me and i find him quite intelligent and sensible, sometimes remarkably awakened when mercury crosses the constellation of the Capricorn.

Don't worry, friend. Simon doesn't mind me lean on him for all I want. He is as light as a feather.

"You know it was people like you who nailed jesus to the Cross Mr Welsh."

"I see you have turned your belief to a dictionary now. Good luck with that brother"

"Funny how words can put your back up so easily... Why do you believe in them so strongly? Forget them they are nothing to believe in. I am truely sorry if What I have said has annoyed you old friend. This discussion on beliefs is ended as of now."

"I don't see why you have to take this whole thing so very personal and come back with such wounding remarks"

"I am still very much fixed here and now in an ego state take my word for it. If I was not I would not be bothering to post here for a start with an angry mob attacking me from the four corners of the globe"

He believes in words, and thinks I, Irvine and others can get hurt by words, as he does. Poor fella! After all these years swinging the bat, he is still to get to first base. First base, in spirituality is understanding that abstract words have no referents but other words. Second base, is to understand that thoughts are empty too. Words and thoughts can only hurt if you let them work on your emotions. Third base, is to understand happenings are empty, impermanent things too, so they can hurt only if you get stuck. Home is to understand suffering as art ( drama, tragedy, entertainment) suffering is fun. With this outlook there is no gloom. Life becomes art, and bloody sport.

Simon, hit one out of the park. You can do it, boy!

(Sorry, couldn't come up with a corresponding Cricket analogy.)

Words, words, they fool him every time! LOL

Well elucidated, Igor (#70)

These sentences for me says it All:

"It is when the experience of seeing is being gradually or ''forcibly'' transformed into just being ( not in a common sense of that word), but being totally one with the object of the experience. That is being Light Itself and having a palpable experience of being nothing other than the Self."

Indeed, Be-ing IS Self.

Yo
You guys are so predictable.

derek

Assaf
That is one of the most powerful moments.

I hope everyone here listens to his intent.

derek

I hesitated on getting involved in this discussion because I knew I would be attacked by the intellectuals, but yo. It is so easy for an intellectual to out wit someone like me and dominate a conversation. But that doesn't make them right or wrong.
Intellectualism has not brought us any closer to the truth than anything else. Spiritualism has not brought us any closer to the truth. The more we try to figure it out the further away from it we get.
Science and education are just ways to explore just as spiritualism is.

Exploring without the need to know. Experiencing the contrast of the green of a tree and the blue of the sky without the need to know why it pleases, just that it does.

I don't know Simon but I appreciate his spirit and energy. I also appreciate the intellectuals for their spirit as well.

We will all get around the next bend in the river, which ever river we are on, and we will all be different around each and every bend.

Truth changes as we change. I know it changes as I change.

derek

Yo Mr. Scanner

"Anybody capable of writing the above with honesty must be lacking information or knowledge and have an educated intellectualism that’s pretty suspect."

Without a doubt

My intellectualism is more than suspect, it's whack.

peace bro

derek

Derek, you appear to have a habit of selling yourself short. For anyone with a desire to find things out, science 101 is passed very easily. No desire, no gain. But maybe palliative comfort is more important than the laws of physics.

Reason is very predictable; it is always around skeptisism, doubt and critical thinking and it tells us that faith is not a virtue but a handicap.

Reason gets us closer to the truth than any other virtue (the quality of doing what is right and avoiding what is wrong).

Hey Mr. Scanner
Do you have faith in reason? Will it be the the process that brings us to the truth? Research is just like meditation or prayer. It's the everyday tedious work that leads to inspiration and is driven by the awe of realizing we are apart of something bigger.

Faith is no more a handicap than reason. It is also no more of a help. Some people find great joy in their faith and science to them is not a priority.

Why do diminish the path of someone because they are not motivated by the same thought process as you? Not everybody finds what they are looking for in science class. Not everyone finds what they are looking for in art class. Some people find what they are looking for in a church or a temple.

To me faith in God or faith in reason, it's all the same thing.

Can you articulate how reason has gotten us closer to the truth?

Do you know what this truth is that everyone is looking for?

Could it be so simple that even looking for it becomes the very thing that makes it vanish into thin air?

Maybe there is no truth?

Have you ever experience the awe of the contrast of green against blue without questioning why?

Will science ever get past questioning and just experience?

Sorry so many questions but I am a curios creature.

curiosity comes from curiosity

derek

Reasoning is mostly personal for a lot of people.

This is why nothing can be solved from it. What seems reasonable to you may not be to another person and so on. People believe in their reason and not other peoples. A good example is to look at the Open Thread page and observe the never ending churn of political diarrhea that John and Irvine Welsh spend days and hours writing.

What does that solve?

To sit and write a whole load of crtic about someone standing for election.

If these people spent the same time going around the streets where they live and helping homeless people or asking their friends and neighbors if they need any help. Now this is making a difference to the world. making people close to you happier and making things that little bit brighter.

Maybe you might have a quick chat with one of them about who you think may win the election. But to spend hours and hours and days and days constantly moaning and being critical about this candidate and that candidate.

Come on! Whats that all about?

As soon as the person gets into office they will have a hundred good reasons why they are messing things up in six months anyway. And then thats all we will hear about on Open Thread. The president is this the president is that. he said this and she said that.

In actual fact real reasoning needs to be completely Impersonal before it is worth listening to.

People with strong political opinions need to have a reason to spout off about the Government because it has become part of their identity.It does not really matter who is in office. It could be Madonna or the pope they would still be coming out with the same stuff.

I have often had second thoughts about going to see a movie because a Critic did not rate it, Possibly because they did not like the leading actor or the director maybe. I have then seen that movie and thought to myself that was pretty damn good and I glad I did not take the Critics reasoning for it being a bad film.

people like John and Irvine are total Critics. The hallmark of a critic is that they never write an original piece of work that is imaginative and is based on their own creativity but will always refer to what another person has said, writtten or done (Such as the president of the US) and then they will analyse and try and discredit or use the work to make themselves look important or clever when in reality they are social parasites feeding off other peoples succes and failures.
Read through theses guys posts and that will present itself very clearly.

Can't wait to see the reception this post gets from the intellectuals.

Copy and paste will be on overdrive for Irvine; his clipboard might explode!

LOL

Love

Simon xx

I love you Simon. I enjoy your posts very much....but (and I am not an intellectual)critizing John and Irvine...makes you into a critic too...doesn't it?.... And I am not critizing you...just asking LOL

LOL,

How did I know you were going to say that Vivian

Well one is a Critic if one is constantly, always critizing all of the time. Just as a shoe maker makes shoes every day. If I call him a shoe maker that does not make me one too.

Love Simon xx

Vivian

I almost forgot to say....

I Love you too