No. It is subjective.

You know if you have been changed. Your viewpoint has shifted. You respond differently, with more awareness and wisdom in a given situation. Your perspective is broader and more complete.

These are subjective yardsticks. Those around you may or may not notice. Sometimes people that know you well will see the growth.

There is no objective yardstick.

For example, I have often been asked, "What did you accomplish with meditation?"

The whole question is wrong. Meditation is the antidote to the world of going, doing, striving, and accomplishing.

What, you want a trophy or something because you can meditate? A spot on Oprah to talk about your enlightenment or something?

The spiritual realization is not about approval seeking or impressing people. Or selling books, or appearing on talkshows. Sorry.

Back to watching your breath...

This question has been troubling me now for more than a year since I discovered some renowned experiences of thought reading or intuitions, it does not manifest on me but have encounter to be knower of it, through certain blogs, news papers and websites which I visit and read the contains daily and many times in a day, sheer out of joy and amusement to know the resonance of my thoughts, which actually leave me in spell of love with that unknown who I think appears in different names , with technical understanding of internet an d many other ways to figure out a persons prevailing psychology and mental state from there blogs and work is quite easy and can be termed ‘’as everything is possible in world of technology’’ but there are certain things which cannot be explained and can be doubted by the experiencer himself for lack of being able to prove it to ownself or to others with evidence, it can only be understood on ground of faith, love and trust
I restrict myself to share those names and sites as it may disturb the encounter person as it is to me because mysteries are not a mindful efforts but they happen on conscious level and stand tall to be categorized in God realm

Objective... subjective... in the end it is the same.
If you are truly advancing on your path, you feel more and more connected to your Self, closer and closer to serenity, more grounded in love, ease and detachment. You see the beauty more and more clearly :)
And at the same time, your life is flowing with more and more ease, you see abundant signs "out there", until there is nothing outside of the inner/outer divinity.

So I think a "proof" would be increased joy, ease, flow. I mean, if you want to check and see how you're doing :)

"The spiritual realization is not about approval seeking or impressing people." yogi-one

Not much more needs to be said for this question. in my opinion

derek

"The spiritual realization is not about approval seeking or impressing people." yogi-one

Not much more needs to be said on this question, in my opinion.

derek

Yo, I thought the first one got lost.

Yes, there is a way to validate your true identity, which is to go beyond the subject/object relationship. Any experience that is oriented around the subject feeling something tangible such as exhilaration, movement, and energy related to physical feelings, to an appearance of forms, bright lights, etc. can be spiritually related, but not the final product of self-realization. The Supreme experience of enlightenment is literally beyond all of these, and the realm of Eternity has characteristics that are so unusual and yet totally undeniable and doubtless. The Absolute and Almighty Void is the only place where Stillness, Silence, Awareness, thoughtless, Formless, Darkness and Light coexist together in a huge sphere of purity in being. It is so mind and identity blowing, but in a most subtle way that naturally dissolves any false notions instantly. Once the Ultimate Realization of what Reality is dawns, all questions, false ideas, gross desires, and fears vanish into knowing the truth. ~Kurt~

A desire of living from unity.

There should be away to validate enlightenment scientifically as well, via polygraph, brain wave, etc. plus the Kundalini energy should Definitely be measurable as well. ~Kurt~

from Rick Lewis his Perfection of Nothing

"Spiritual experiences and phenomena are a very important stage in the process. Important becaue unless one has them it is vry difficult to go behond them, to pierce the illusorinss of all experience or retire the desire to have them. These experiences should be embraced but constantly resubmitted to the Essential, which will eventually lead the practioner to the clear understanding that spiritual experiences have no more to do directly with spirituality than hair color or the particular wheather patterns on any given day. Spiritual phenomena are a part of existence, but no more nor less than that. All phenomena are no more nor less than that."

"There is only one transcendent Reality, and on its heels come the consequences. Reality is simply and utterly absent of features; devoid of quality, form, ad substance. Everything that can be experienced or idetified with is a consequence of this Reality. To confuse the consequences with the Truth is the essence of all illusion."

have a great day ruth

Aloha

It is very simple, everything is relative. And when it is why?, it shifts to why not ? as the sift is subjective to objective. Only thing that changes is change. Time has no time for death. love patty

What does authenticity mean here, something that is not mere imagination? Do you mean scientific by the word objective? If one can define or describe a spiritual experience objectively, then probably, that person who had that experience and who is able to describe that experience objectively may also be able to prescribe a method to validate it objectively.

Dear Syamala:

Yes. Yes. Yes.

The whole universe is an objective evidence and consciousness an objective tool to validate the genuine spirituality based on the absolute and eternal universal reality. The universe and its eternal/omnipresent laws exist to fulfill this very distinct purpose of humanity.

If the ultimate reality and genuine spirituality were captive only to the subjectivity of the illusive individual ego, that would be a mockery of both. Nature has no room for such mockery of its own existence.

- Avtar

How can one validate the authenticity of the sweetness of Sugar?

How can one validate the authenticity of satisfaction when you give water to a very thirsty person?

How can one validate the authenticity of feeling of orgasm objectively?

These all exists in Nature.. But they are all subjective...

What is a spiritual experience but the union of the two - the active principle and the reactive principle, the knowing principle and the extended principle, the virtual world and the actual world, the noumena and phenomenon - again into one?

If one has seen this union happening within, then, because what is within is without and what is without is within, one can also see this union happening without too.

And I think one example of it is what from outside seems spontaneous decay of some faroff star. Perhaps science can validate it in this way (as the union of two worlds) some day.

Harb

HELLO EVERYONE!
What i think,sipritual realm is something one can delve into,the more you drown,the more you will get to see its real colors.But it is something,which is too personal.Asking for its validation means just putting forth the million dollar question,does GOD exist?

GODBLESS.

Hi Ankita,
Well said.
In a response to my question last week, Rafael mentioned comprehension of the Absolute being beyond reason. Interestingly, comprehension of the Absolute is beyond both faith (without questioning) and reason. Spiritual Masters who did have that comprehension and who described their experience as best as they could, expressed more or less, the same thing in their descriptions (although those who have not yet had that comprehension, may interpret Masters' descriptions in drastically different ways and fight for our interpretation passionately!). Spiritual Masters have also prescribed methods to realize that comprehension; some methods are based on faith, Christianity for example, and some others based on questioning like "who am I"; some others are like what Jiddu Krishnamoorthy says "do not believe what anybody else says but also stop thinking totally". These methods may all be called objective in the sense that at least some of those who practise those methods again see the Absolute. But none of these methods are scientific and can never be scientific because the spiritual experience itself is beyond all science. That unique Experience is personal but not subjective! it is absolute!

Why would any one wants to validate his/her spiritual experiences? If he/she wants to that means he/she has a doubt about it. Does'nt that mean there was no spiritual experience? In other words those who have genuine experiences would not think of validatation. Is'nt it so?
Morris

Morris, I like your comment and wish to explain my feelings about spiritual experiences. Many are so profound as to have no doubt whatsoever and need no authentication. But others are often so awesome that one has to wonder whether it is a valid experience or not, and by that I mean efforts to uncover past lifetimes if one has ever undergone that experience. In my case, I did seek validity of each individual experience, and therefore, some may appear to be quite psychic in nature. I have since decided after many years of giving myself hedges on a bet and reasons other than reincarnation types of memory for these experiences that it does not truly matter whether it is a case of rebirth or of a psychic experience, the event itself is so certain that no matter what it is, it is worth it to know. Those who believe in rebirth seem to accept it for that and others who wish to believe that it is of a psychic nature will consider it that. I do not personally believe that a psychic can penetrate so deeply into lives of the past as I have done, so I accept it as a form of rebirth or reincarnation. But because there is empirical evidence to support my experience, I realize the truth of so called history reports.

All in all I stick with the spiritual experience over the written so called historical record. All authors and writers make mistakes, including myself about dates and events. I just simply try to correct myself. But when a spiritual happening occurs, I decide not to embellish it but to recall it as it happened when I remembered it through a regression experience.

Nobody but I can really know what happened so in the final analysis the spiritual journey is one which is really my own and I have to accept that for what it is worth. Yet, I truly have realized that this kind of experience is worth more than all the money in the world. Not discounting the fact that materialism is what made it all happen anyway. As the saying goes, priceless!

Dear syamala:

#17: “…. But none of these methods are scientific and can never be scientific because the spiritual experience itself is beyond all science.”

You are referring to the mainstream materialistic-only science that is incomplete due to the missing physics of consciousness. A complete holistic consciousness-integrated science can correctly describe the genuine spiritual experiences such as timelessness or eternity (fully dilated relativistic time), omnipresence or oneness (fully dilated relativistic space), emptiness or Sunyata (vacuum energy), and non-duality (equivalence of mass-energy) etc.

A genuine spiritual experience is not beyond genuine science and vice versa; non-duality, oneness, and absoluteness of spirituality does not allow two different relative spiritual and scientific realities to coexist. The incompleteness and different taxonomies of mainstream science and spirituality mislead us to their apparent separation and duality.

Buddha is often referred to as a scientist of the “Contemplative science of the mind”. The convergence of spiritual experiences of different masters point to their objectivity, universality, and holistic scientific nature.

- Avtar

arizonasunset: While I respect your thoughts, I am not sure whether I would consider efforts with respect to uncovering previous life as real spiritual experiences. I remain skeptical about these kind of things. However, I have to agree with you that such experiences would require some kind of proof. Personaly I am not very much curious about my past lives. It would be nice know, but so what. It really has nothing to do with our present life. If you care to, you tell us some more about your experiences.

I am thinking more in terms of spiritual experiences gained while in deep meditation. It all depends upon how you feel about them. If your meditation is for the purpose of gaining such experiences, chances are you are not going to experience anything. I feel that those who go into it without any expectation are the ones who are likely to get something. And since you do not expect anythig, you would thankfully receive them without doubt.
Morris

No expereince is "real". That which is "real" can not be expereinced. In order to experience something...one has to be able to observe it...if one is able to observe it...one is separated from it. The real can only "be" it.

'' How can one validate the authenticity of his/her own spiritual experiences? Is there an objective method for validation?''

Before we can raise the question on how to validate one's spiritual experiences it would be good to venture into what we understand as an experience first of all.

What do we call more real as far as the experience is concerned: the waking state or the state of dreaming ? What is more authentic the one where the senses are the main suppliers or the one where the mind abides in its own nature, thus feeling the space with floating ideas, imaginations, dreams ?

Anyone who has more or less serous interest, supported by daily practice of yoga, knows that there is no state of consciousness which is 'more authentic' or 'more reliable'.
It is to do with the faculties being operable and in any case being orchestrated by nothing other than consciousness.

Talking about experiences we call spiritual I totally agree with Kurt ( # 7, # 9 ). Especially comment 9, about the possibilities to validate the experience, via Kundalini's activity for instance. There are Institutes of Kundalini Research both in America and France dedicated to the study of the Awakening, Transformation and Return of Energy back into the state of Pure Consciousness.

This process is measured by concrete and factual experiences and although being subjective (by name) they are nevertheless signify the particular stage of The Energy's ascend through the ladder of psycho-phisiological conglomerate of wheels (chakras).

What IS significant is that the higher is the level of THAT ascend, the more unifying in nature are the experiences:
seeing the electric blue mass of light and hearing the subtlest primordial sound, both are the manifestations of the fact that the Bindu Visarga point is being reactivated again. The region of the so-called stage of repose, (right before the actual realization takes place), sometimes allocated within the region of Ajna Chakra or slightly higher and towards the back of the scull but in any case being the place of opening and rekindling of two most important glands, pineal and petutary.

Hi Avtar,
the method (for me) is present moment living, and experiencing the outer - and inner - events, as a seamless Oneness.
~ Kate

hi Igor,
do the colors you see show in your artwork?
It's amazing!
love,
~ Kate

They used to, Kate, when I was still using the paint. Yet I haven't painted a single picture in the last seven years. That is not to say there was (is) a single moment without seeing the Light.

With Love & Joy

igor

When we have thoroughly explored the topic of being humans and having spiritual experiences,

I would love to open a theme of sharing the experiences
of being Spirit and having human experiences.

And...

Balancing the two on one blade-sharp line...

Sounds like fun to me.

Yes, that sounds like fun.

I believe that looking for a particular validation is not necessary. Just as different people have different ways of relaxing or meditating, similarly the way one knows when he or she is experiencing consciousness and greater spirituality can be different and at the same time can also be similar. Personally, when I have experienced such a phenomenon, I always get a feeling of complete peace, happiness and content, as though a water has been poured onto a fire inside of me.