Deepak,

We are not at war in or with Iraq, it is an occupation. Time might be well spent exposing this fiction. Therefore being “defeated” is another fiction. This is ego play using words to create illusion. Of course being able to see the reality through the fictions and not get caught up in them is a super hero power.

What is going on in Iraq is the result of a much bigger issue and game, The World of Fiction and it's artificial economy.

There is that small percentage that benefits from the World of Fiction; they get a disproportionate advantage and allocation of wealth and masturbation of ego. They cling to the fictions and work to maintain the systems and falsity that allows for this.

The War is the battle between the choice of truth or fiction in the minds of the players and participants.

When they speak “war” or “defeat” one should be quick to dispel them for the illusions that they are.

The truth is that US cannot come out of Iraq, even if it wants to.

It should not have entered Iraq - but now that it did and the players which got involved since (Iran/terrorist groups), it would become a virtual no-man's land with every thing game if US came out. It will be a place that would be the launching pad of all the terrorist organizations.

The truth is that the epicenter for all the terrorist activity was and is Pakistan. The ISI and its Army has slowly created a monster that is difficult to control.

In fact, forget about coming out of Iraq, US may be readying to enter Iran very soon.. if the saber-rattling is to be believed. All that Iran needs to do to put the world in a whirlpool of mess is to sink a large enough ship in the Strait of Hormuz. Just take an old and large enough ship from its docks and sink the bloody thing. 40% of all the oil in the world comes from that narrow piece of strait. And pipelines are not an option. And every Iranian knows that - so I am sure Ahmedinejad knows it too.

Iraq started a vicious circle that will be tough to contain.

Like they say in Hindi -

Na nigalte banta hai.. na nikaalte.

Its not possible to swallow it.. nor spit it out.

Cheers,
Desh

Well, maybe for some, invading Iraq was an exercise in pride or tonic for 9/11.

Not for me.

I had a visceral feeling of dread and revulsion hearing the draft dodging Bush and Cheney make their case for an unprovoked invasion of another country - a bearing of false witness in direct contradiction to the pious Christian image that they exploited.

We should have - and would have - learned about the deadly consequences of invading and trying to hold on to a hostile land - if only Bush/Cheney had spent their formative years humping packs in Vietnam instead of pursuing 'other priorities'.

When Nixon painted the image of a "Pitiful, Helpless Giant," World War II was only 25 years in the past but 34 years have now passed his ignominious departure from the White House. We have to hope that the generations that have grown up since then are wiser than their parents and grandparents.

PS: For context of the Nixon quote see:
Address to the Nation on the Situation in Southeast Asia
April 30, 1970
http://www.mekong.net/cambodia/nixon430.htm

Whoahahahahahah! Deja vu

The RNC ad currently running ad nauseum in Ohio starts out with the "Summer of Love" and pictures of hippies gettin high and promiscuous. It then tries to make a contrast with images of McCain in captivity and injured and refusing to take an early release-message: cause Mac puts country first. It would have been the perfect campaign ad for 1972. It's not just unpatriotic to withdraw from Iraq, Obama is just like those filthy f*ckin hippies that destroyed our American culture and made us doubt our God-given destiny to rule the world. Ohio being the home of the Kent State shootings (which were the direct outcome of the invasion of Cambodia by Nixon in 1970), I would love to have the capacity to see how this ad is really resonating. One consistent thought that I have had since 2002 is that the Iraqis and al Qaeda learned a lot more from the Vietnam War than Bush/Cheney did... a lot more.

Meanwhile, in Vietnam, today...

Brazil's Lula visits Vietnam's General Giap

"HANOI (AFP) — Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva on a Vietnam visit Thursday paid his respects to General Vo Nguyen Giap, the architect of military victories over France and the United States.

"The Vietnamese can be proud of being the people that defeated the French and the Americans in the same century," said Lula. "That says a lot about who the Vietnamese people are and how resilient they are."

Giap, who was a close confidante of Vietnam's late revolutionary leader Ho Chi Minh, is regarded as one of history's great military strategists, having defeated the French colonial regime at the 1954 battle of Dien Bien Phu.

Over the next two decades the founding father of Vietnam's People's Army, whose guerrilla tactics inspired anti-colonial fighters worldwide, led his forces toward victory over the United States with the 1975 fall of Saigon.

"I could not leave Vietnam without visiting the general," Lula told him at his French colonial mansion in Hanoi, where Giap presented him with a copy of "Unforgettable Years and Months," one of his many historical memoires."

This is how the world sees us.

Nothing has changed.

"America", "Government" and "Nation" are all labels, they do not think, decide, own, or pay or go to war.

Labels cannot be held accountable.

Only the individuals hiding behind the mask of these labels can be held accountable.

To target these labels has no effect they make for a clever cloaking device.

Even the individuals are not the true target; it is the fictions in their minds and this where the world’s attention needs to be brought to bear upon the truth that dispels the fictions.

There is no government structure on the planet that measures and authenticates the voice and intent of the people such that it can carry them out. Therefore the representatives cannot truly represent the people and therefore are not true agents of the people. They are bogus entities that do not serve but rule and maintain the fictions and systems from which their supporters benefit.

"America", "Government" and "Nation" are all labels," Richard T.

That reminds me of this joke on the definition of "politics" -- many of you might have read some version of this joke:

Lil' Johnny goes to his dad and asks, "What is politics?"

Dad says, "Well son, let me try to explain it this way. I'm the breadwinner of the family, so let's call me Capitalism. Mommy is the administrator of the money, so we'll call her the Government. We're here to take care of your needs, so we'll call you The People. The nanny, well, consider her The Working Class. Your baby brother, we'll call him The Future. Now go think about this and see if it makes sense."

So the little boy goes off to bed thinking about what Dad has said. Later that night, he hears his baby brother crying and runs to his room only to find that his diapers are very soiled.

So the little boy goes to his parents' room. Mom is sound asleep. Not wanting to wake her, he goes to the nanny's room. Finding the door locked, he looks through the peephole and sees his father in bed with the nanny. He gives up and goes back to bed.

The next morning, the little boy says to his father, "Dad, I think I understand what politics is now."

"Good son, tell me in your own words then what politics are."

The little boy replies, "Well, while Capitalism is screwing the Working Class, the Government is sound asleep, the People are being ignored and the Future is in deep shit."

Regarding posts 1-7 great stuff everybody! Chris, 8 of 8 that is, not to be confused with 7 of 9 (it is a Star Trek joke), very funny!

May Iran completely shut down the Strait of Hormuz! O yeah!

Amen

The human ego is the one element that we (the world) must consider when we think of the here and now and past political blunders that cost human life. Until the United States and the rest of world's governments and leaders start to think that we are more connected to each other and all from the same source (being god) that there would be any real progress. The new leader we get from this campaign has to be a unifier and politician at the same time while making our country stronger in the process. Some would say a miracle worker. We need to start to enter a new way of thinking and only then can we move on to world prosperity and a time of peace.

What was once the Great American Dream has now become the Terrible American Nightmare.
Let's hope for better things to come

Ref: No. 7, Richard, you've got it very well worked out, but don't just stay there otherwise you are running the risk of confusing yourself while confusing the others. I say that with due respect to your fine intellect. Yet when you write:

''There is no government structure on the planet that measures and authenticates the voice and intent of the people such that it can carry them out. Therefore the representatives cannot truly represent the people and therefore are not true agents of the people. They are bogus entities that do not serve but rule and maintain the fictions and systems from which their supporters benefit.''

You ought to know that there is in fact no government on the planet which governs independently of the sum total of the collective level of awareness of its peoples. It is the heartbeat of the nation that determines the governing body, with the election campaign being just an execution of that subtle process. You cannot have a Hitler or a Stalin unless the collective mass of given nation is already on the verge of a total obsession.

Please, do not forget that the same principles that govern this body of yours are at work in the working of the larger body of the whole of humanity, or the planet.

It is a waste of time directing the attention of 'the people'' to the hidden factors of this or that group which might be responsible for the situation in the World. There are no freemasonry to be blamed for the poverty of the masses at the expense of the few. There is no one and nothing to be blamed except for the hidden factors deep within our own individual setup of physiology-psiche-consciousness.

The hidden factor within is what makes an individual to assume his/her separateness from the whole. This factor is based on the identification with whatever is being experienced by the individual, through the senses. That binds an individual to the body. Then he naturally identifies with the thought process and gets bound to the mind, obviously that in turn bounds him to the actions and its fruits.

With the identification the consciousness gets more and more restricted.

When people will understand that there is the law of karma, the law of action and reaction, at every instant, all this thoughts and concepts of unfairness of the way the wealth is being distributed will vanish.

Wealth is energy. When there is malfunctioning in the body, it is due to the wrong distribution of energy. It piles up in one area while another is being deprived of it. Energy is prana.

If you wish to heal the world's sickness apply the same principles as if you were to heal yourself. Treat the World as the body, as your own body. Likewise, heal yourself and the world will heal with you.

Jai Guru Dev

Ah, yes, Deepak, defeat is a bitter pill. Nonetheless, one must know when to fold ‘em, as the Gambler’s Song goes. As a liberal hawk who approved of our intervention with NATO in Bosnia, who was deeply distressed when the Somalia experience led to a failure to intervene in Rwanda, and as one who argues we should be in Darfur even now, stretched as thin as we are, I am especially disappointed that America, in its Iraq misadventure, has squandered its respect and honor, deeply crippling any future potential to use military might as a force for peace and stability in the world. Well, we are what we are. Through our democratically elected leaders we are torturers and selfish schemers on the world stage and we are seen that way. In the meantime, the United Nations is ineffectual, European nations are enjoying a retirement from centuries of war and colonial police roles and China is indifferent or worse. And so, with no adults on the scene, we have the specter of petty dictators and children with machine guns freely pursuing their genocidal agendas.
In my opinion Saddam Hussein was a genocidal nutcase who had abdicated his right to rule in Iraq by his actions. Overthrowing him would have been generally welcomed in Iraq had the U.S. not blundered so badly on so many fronts to create what you aptly called a debacle. President Obama must focus on getting us out of Iraq in a manner which does as little further damage to Iraq and the region as possible without regard to American fears of being seen as defeated. Prior to the election, Obama should use his superb oratorical skills to influence American perceptions. If this fails and we elect McCain, God help us.

Well, here's a definition of politics that I heard today... (sounds better orally):
poly (Latin) - many, and
ticks - blood-sucking insects. :-)

The Republican party likes to make it appear that a withdrawal from Iraq is surrender when in reality it is the sound decision to know when an uninvited guest is no longer wanted. This war on Iraq was exposed for what it is in Michael Moore's famous movie starring George Bush as Little Joe in Bonanza. Another movie to consider when thinking about Iraq and Afghanistan is Fog of War.

Why these films expose the truth? Michael exposed the Bush administration trying to sell other Republicans on the idea of getting rich while investing in Iraq. And quite frankly, as a local editorial in the AZ Republic once noted, Cuba is fortunate that cigars are not as prized as oil in Iraq is or that island would have been taken years ago.

Nobody can ever fathom that America will go so far halfway round the world for any reason but one: OIL!

Not Saddam Hussein, not weapons of mass destruction, but one thing only: OIL!

So if Iraq capitulates, becomes friends with USA and makes a deal, maybe gas will go back to 29 cents a gallon! OIL!

Hello Deepak and Everyone,

I do not think McCain's stance on the Iraq war or Obama's questionable patriotism by McCain supporters will be the the deciding factors in who will win the race.

I do not trust the polls, at all, and have stopped paying attention to them.

Both candidates have to sell their product to the voters, who are buying, there are those who have already bought and paid for their product through party affiliation but for those who are still shopping, Barak is a new, never before used product while McCain is a brand name and it is tough to beat a brand name in any market....but the Democrats went with the new product, thinking, believing that the voters were unsatisfied, finally, with this brand name, so we will see if the gamble paid off, for it was their(Democrats) chosen strategy in this game of winner take all.

Yes, American's want to win, who doesn't? But, the loss of the Vietnam war was only a bitter loss for those who bought the product on the strength of the seller's brand name, for those who welcomed the final acceptance of that failure, is was a relief and will always be but they also undstand the bitterness of those who cannot accept it, will never accept it, gracefully, but, in the end, we pulled out, came home, and, understood, we did, in fact, lose, and, it was the American public who realized the reality of the loss long before their Government could or would...and I suspect the same is true today..

have a great day, ruth

Th strategy of America siunce WWII has been to gain footholds in any strategic regions, gain access to the resources through business wheeling and dealing (government contractors, oil corporations, etc), and destabilize any other areas of interest where we don't have direct control.

Same as any empire.We are on the exact same trajectory as the Roamn, or British empires. And we are now on the downside of the trajectory.

Like the citizens of all these empires, we refuse to believe we are like the empires before us, or that we can fail as their empires eventually failed.

And like those empires, those who govern us are very happy to continue to tell us the lies we want to hear while they line their pockets the way a CEO plunders a failing corporation.

Does America want the truth?

America can't handle the truth.

We would be behaving much differently if we could.

I'll quote our Hero and Chief Executive here as he departed the G8 summit:

"Goodbye from the world's biggest polluter!"

Hi Igor,

Thanks for your input. Perhaps your own mind tinted some of your interpretation and assumptions which I no way takes away from your fine intellect.

"It is the heartbeat of the nation that determines the governing body" ~Igor

There is not a "heart beat of a Nation" this is a symbolic fiction. I think I understand what you were trying to convey though.

I have written many times that the level of conscious awareness of the people in general influences the structure and actions and decisions of individuals in government. Including who is elected or allowed to be elected. Individuals choose where to put their attention through out the day and where to invest their energies which can result in awareness or ignorance.

There is absolute truth, and relative truths. As there are many levels of perspective and various contexts where a relative truth may be valid in one and not another. We also have beliefs which often represent fiction or “story” and have nothing to do with reality. This is why I promote the idea of speaking of possibility, probability, and knowing through direct experience rather than having a belief. . With almost every statement I can make I can see a contrasting perspective where the statement is not valid or where there are numerous exceptions.

It is easy when working with symbols used to represent various elements in our experience the relationship between these elements to construct a fictional framework layered on top of reality (used in the conventional sense).

I am not trying to paint a picture of the general population as victims of anything other than their own lack of awareness. One must choose to be a victim which is just another label. This is also not to say that one cannot be violated, or the public trust cannot be violated. Yet there are other context where the one violated actually created the violation, and not. While some things may occur as an impetus for evolution, that one had not evolved or devolved to necessitate the “impetus” is a matter of the individual choice and not. For it is also true that the environment and other entities can shape and mold the individual. Such that I often say if I were born in your shoes, I would be doing exactly what you are doing, because I AM that which was born in your shoes.

There is a context from which one can state that everything is happening perfectly and all is good and it is a very valid statement.

My contention is that there is a lot of room for improvement of the systems, such that they maintain a balance and are based on truths rather than fictions or a storyline from which some benefit to the detriment of others. Many of the systems, government for one, have not evolved in line with new capability. In a world with a preponderance of ignorance there is a remedy of communication to increase awareness. Freedom of speech, open Socratic dialog and transparency are also remedies.

There are those that benefit and profit from the current situation and state, these individuals would tend to resist change or evolution that might threaten the benefits and profits currently derived and change or evolution may cause them to lose. We might label this the status quo.

“There are no freemasonry to be blamed for the poverty of the masses at the expense of the few.” ~Igor

Not sure where this came from and why you mentioned it. The truth is that freemasonry was born as a result of poverty; it was an evolution that overcame the dominance of Kings and a Central Church, centralized power. Of course there are truths as to what it was, and what it became, what it had, and what it lost. I might add a little more dimension to this later. Again freemasonry is a label and labels do not decide or think and I am not sure if you are referring to an organization or individuals within it.

Everything serves a purpose in it’s time, yet with evolution new things come to serve the same or an evolved purpose and the old no longer serving a purpose will perish.

What would happen if we saw ourselves in the enemy and the enemy in ourselves, laid down our weapons, maybe even tossed them all in a huge barrel (or several huge barrels), set fire to them melting them down to their original form, and then those who wished to stuck around, or showed up if they weren't already there, to offer their services to those who want and need them in just the way they want and need them?

Crazy idea maybe, but what would happen.

What would happen if we saw ourselves in the enemy and the enemy in ourselves, laid down our weapons, maybe even tossed them all in a huge barrel (or several huge barrels), set fire to them melting them down to their original form, and then those who wished to stuck around, or showed up if they weren't already there, to offer their services to those who want and need them in just the way they want and need them?

Crazy idea maybe, but what would happen.

yogi-one wrote: I'll quote our Hero and Chief Executive here as he departed the G8 summit: "Goodbye from the world's biggest polluter!"

Dwight Eisenhower once said that:

"A sense of humor is part of the art of leadership, of getting along with people, of getting things done."

...which probably goes a long way in explaining the current state of the Republican party. Chances are, if you happen to catch a Republican talking about destruction and death (of a person, community, country or the planet,) you’ve probably walked in on the punch-line of a "joke."

There was that hilarious performance George Bush gave at the 2004 White House Correspondents Dinner where he put on a slideshow about WMD that had:

...Bush looking under furniture in the Oval Office. Bush said "Nope. No weapons over there." Then another picture of Bush searching in his office. He said "Maybe under here."

www.democracynow.org/2004/3/26/family_of_slain_soldier_calls_bush

At the time there had only been about 600 U.S. deaths in the war to save us from a mushroom cloud, so you can imagine the hilarity that would ensue if he did that skit today with more than 4,100 dead.

But if Bush's joke about non-existent weapons of mass destruction didn't work for you, there's always his comical exit line from the G8 summit, about the destruction of the planet.

Or how about the Republican club’s website with a banner that read:

"Obama loves America like O.J. loved Nicole."

www.philly.com/inquirer/local/20080709_N_J__GOP_club_accused_of_racism.html

That’s comedy gold...assuming you think that the brutal murder of a woman is funny and you enjoy jokes with racist undertones.

And then there’s that Bush-wannabe, John McCain, who happily sang about bomb, bomb, bomb, bombing Iran, and more recently, his clever idea for killing off Iranians.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKIt316Ajas

Are you having trouble containing your laughter?

So, the next time you wonder where Republicans are getting their comedy material from, just remember:

"Those who can laugh without cause have either found the true meaning of happiness or have gone stark raving mad."

...and considering the Republican’s prospects in November, you can be sure that they aren’t happy.

Obama McCain

Intrade Market Odds:

65.0 31.2

FiveThirtyEight.com win % projection:

69.7 30.3

--------------------

Obama, McCain

RCP National Average:
46.8, 42.6
Pollster.com popular vote average:
46.7%, 43.0%
FiveThirtyEight.com popular vote projection:
49.7%, 46.6%

Favorable Ratings Spread: Obama + 3.6

Obama McCain Tossup
RCP Electoral Count:
238, 163, 137
No Toss Up States:
304, 234, -

FiveThirtyEight projections.

Electoral Vote:

312.4, 225.6

Senate Seats Held:

Dem: 55.5
GOP: 42.5

Dear Dr. Chopra,

I agree tht the war in Iraq has been initiated under questionable circumstances. It has been drawn on far too long. The United States has used its military in a much too liberal fashion in many instances. The word "Patriotism" has been abused.

It is my belief that there will always be another tyrant "waiting in the wings" to exert his influence towards a mindless drive for power and control over a totalitarian government. The upcoming demagogue desiring limitless control of mass populations is Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran. This is a man who exemplifies the characteristics of an Adolf Hitler and he is extremely dangerous.

We need a leader who realizes how dangerous this President of Iran is and a leader who is willing to deal with him as such. The kind of irrationality displayed by Ahmadinejad must be dealt with as such. This madman cannot be dealt with by token "peace talks". He won't be listening!

Best Wishes,

"Betsy" S.

We Look Like Giants

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4P_ybpAAJY&feature=related

Richard, thank you for taking time to reply in detail. I've never questioned the integrity of where you coming from and am fully understanding your intent. What I am saying here is that do not stop just there, at the corner of the problem.

Turn around the whole damn carpet and let us together sweep the dust and the rubbish that got piled up underneath.

When some others say it's all about oil or anything of the kind, I wish them to do the same, to go further, right into the heart of the problem. That is the spirit of inquiry. That would be in a truly Socratic spirit.

"Betsy" S.,

You are clueless.

Ahmedinejed is a figurehead, and under the Iranian system, weak and powerless. Furthermore, he isn't even all the popular in his own country. He is their George W. Bush, without any power.

In Iran, it is the Supreme Leader, a religious cleric, and the Council of Guardians, another religious body, that controls EVERYTHING.

The Iranians are not irrational, and the clerics are the bosses.

Now Al Qaeda, IS in fact irrational and dangerous, as they have proven. They aren't some imagined threat concocted by some Yeshiva students in Manhattan, AIPAC and Joe Lieberman.

"The upcoming demagogue desiring limitless control of mass populations is Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran. This is a man who exemplifies the characteristics of an Adolf Hitler and he is extremely dangerous." [#18]

Hmm ...

No, he isn't. He exercises virtually no power compared to senior Iranian clerics, he's a crap demagogue and in ten years' time we'll have forgotten who he is.

His rhetoric against Israel is no different than American leaders calling for "total obliteration" of Iran, and joking about killing off Iranians.

Hello, again!

Has anyone ever heard about "History Repeating Itself"?

In 1938 Adolf Hitler made demands for territory near Czechoslavakia and he was appeased by France, Britain, and Italy. This agreement with Nazi Germany is referred to as the Munich Betrayal. British mass media and Winston Churchill, Duff Cooper and Anthony Eden demanded war with Germany. However, Neville Chamberlain, the British prime minister, and Foreign Secretary Lord Halifax were willing to keep the peace.

Italian leader Benito Mussolini proposed a peace conference with the major powers as participants Sept. 15-16, 1938. Hitler promised Chamberlain that he would take no military action without further discussion. On Sept.30, 1938, Hitler signed a peace treaty between the United Kingdom and Germany.

This action by a recognized demagogue and madman demonstrates the danger of underestimating the intended course of action by proven tyrants. There is no way to reason with evil.

"Betsy" S.

Well "Betsy"S,

Don't you think it is high time then to:

"Turn around the whole damn carpet and let us together sweep the dust and the rubbish that got piled up underneath."

like Igor is suggesting to Richard ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGCvFBxCX6E

If we do not then everything will always be same (old) wine in new bags.

Let's taste some gooseberry wine!

Cheers

Dear Mieke,

The only way to "turn around the whole damn carpet and let us together sweep tthe dust and the rubbish that got piled up underneath" is to dispel the darkness which exists because of a definite intention by certain organized regulators of society to keep people in the dark. This will be accomplished by a concerted effort on behalf of those who are guided by the desire to disseminate Light (Knowledge).

As Richard says, "My contention is that there is a lot of room for improvement of the systems, such that they maintain a balance and are based on truths rather than fictions or a storyline from whhich some benefit to the detriment of others. Many of the systems, goovernment for one, have not evolved in line with new capability. In a WORLD WITH A PREPONDERANCE OF IGNORANCE THERE IS A REMEDY OF COMMUNICATION TO INCREASE AWARENESS. Freedom of speech, open Socratic dialogue and transparency are also remedies". I agree heartily with his contention.

For knowledge (Light) to accomplish the goal of raising awareness, there have to be enough receptacles (people) ready and open enough to recognize and accept the truths (Light) being presented to them. As Richard says, in the world there is a preponderance of ignorance and many are too distracted and/or unwilling to be open to a new awareness.

We should all nonetheless keep aiming for and working for the raising of consciousness.

Best Wishes,

"Betsy" S.