Religious rituals and ceremonies are beautiful, but that's as far as it go's. If that's what it took to be close to God ( self ) then we wouldn't be writing about it, now would we?

Aloha Deepak and Everyone

What I love about listening to Robert Thurman, is the suggestion of seeing everything as your mother. I wonder the anger that is felt, is just the stone in the shoe when someone passes. We can't hold the angels of death back, just like we can't hold the sun back. It is to rise above the clouds to see the Jewel Tree rising up from our beloved mother and all that makes her up.

And why you get upset at the one book people, amazes me:) I guess it is because we find the one in the all. Aloha to Tim!!!

love patty

I find that rituals help put me in the right frame of mind to engage in my personal journey. Rituals set the stage for the work I need to do to continue to grow spiritually.

This is a very interesting topic to consider. Years ago, at college, being very young, I had to write a paper in a philosophy class with the idea of knowing how to be honest with myself, and my topic was the effect of religious beliefs upon each of us. I have ever since continued to study religious beliefs in their influence on our lives and our behaviour, as it would appear that nothing else on earth is so important except food and diet.

But I finally decided after awhile that probably church attendance is like learning a language, that sooner or later, all that attendance, practice, drilling, and repeition will sooner or later make you actually intelligible in the language study, or in the case of church attendance, make you finally a truly spiritual being. Believe it or not, sooner or later, you may finally achieve success in it.

Simple faith is what Jesus appears to have cherished most, having the faith of a little child. Church attendance is an act of that kind of faith...and reading the Bible and behaving to one another as a lover of mankind will probably not only make one spiritually worthy, but also will make the world a better place.

Thanks, Deepak, for an interesting topic. I have been a member of both protestant and Catholic faiths, and am a true believer in the fact that all the religious faiths of the world which are universally based upon the concept of Love of God, Love of Self, and Love of Neighbor will all make each participant a better person for it.

Languages are difficult for some and easy for others, and so it seems is a religious life. But sooner or later, it will all work out to those who love God enough to try it, and to those who engage in language study, will soon know how to speak it and hear it. It is all called communication. Sometimes a good smile is the best greeting that says I Love You. Love One Another!

I have come back to this post to see what others think, and I, as always, agree with Dr. Chopra, except this little part, "God is a state of universal awareness."

I have never heard this definition of God before. Certainly God is universally aware, omniscient that is, yet I do not see this as being "a state," like somebody being in a "state of shock," or, "in a state of disbelief," like something passing or nonconstant.

Maybe this is purely a semantical misunderstanding . . .

Peace

Thanks for sharing Deepak.
I was raised in a protestant christian family. Going to church on sunday was sacrosanct and i got caught up in the routine/ritual until my late teens. When I read a book that talked about the religous-free experience of God, the difference between being spiritual/God-like and being religious, it opened me to a whole new experience and understanding of not only God but reality. I always say that to be God-like is not about DOING, its about BEING. I rarely go to church now but when i do, i see things in a whole different light.

Love
Murungi

"To me, God is a state of universal awareness that can be united with human awareness through personal evolution and growth. .... It takes one's own inner journey to approach God. Rituals may light a lamp at the door, but they don't walk the road with you." ~ Deepak Chopra

I completely agree with what Deepak is saying. To be in a state of universal awareness is being a god as one connects with God in oneness, i.e., such as, god is the image of God. And God did say, "I AM that," to Mosses when he asked what God's name was, as God is everything in front of us. Plus, Jesus brought to us the concept that God is really within us, as he showed us how this is possible by his example, as well as his teachings.

Love, Char

The definition "God is a state of universal awareness" is straight from the teachings and writings of the ancient sages of India.
I would disagree with Deepak on one point though. Hinduism does not have a conversion process not because it is exclusive but because it is all inclusive. In Gita, the Lord says "I will manifest myself to you no matter whatever way you try to approach me, by whatever name you address me, in whatever form you worship me or meditate upon me as formless". When it comes to spiritual growth, different individuals are usually at different levels. So, an approach to realize God which is suitable to one may not be suitable to another. Hinduism understands that one size does not fit all. So, for Hindus, every religion is in a way, a part of hinduism itsef. Hindu rituals mostly involve worship of idols, trees, animals (for Hindus, everything is a manifestation of just one and the same God; so they worship everything) and are intended for those who cannot think of a formless God. A Hindu who understands Hinduism DOES NOT think that God is only in the idol and nowhere else, eventhough he/she often participates in rituals. It is true that people of other religions might have been excluded from attending Hindu rituals in Deepak's childhood days and probably in some places even now in India. The attitude has changed a lot over the years. Nowadays, for example, all Hindu organizations in the US and Europe, regularly perform rituals which are attended by many who are not Hindus by birth; so also in India.
There were reasons for excluding non-Hindus from Hindu rituals in earlier times. I realized that from some of my experiences in the US. When my sons were 8 and 9 years old, one day, they were playing at my home with a Jewish friend of their age. Since I had planned to go to the temple (hindu) and since his parents went out, I took the Jewish boy along with my children to the temple. As we were doing our worship, the Jewish boy walked right upto the idol and spit on it. I do not think his parents taught him hatred toward other religions. It is just that he must have heard in his family's cynagogue or place of Jewish worship, that idol worship is bad and he was too young to restrain himself from expressing disrespect. Another time, I attended a church with my Christian friend because I admire Jesus Christ and I admired her fath in Him. The pastor there, during the course of his speech, talked for a while on how ridiculous it is to believe in reincarnation. Well, being a grown-up and being in the minority, I kept quiet. So, inviting people with different belief systems to a religious ritual may cause problems.

Hello Deepak and Everyone,

To me, a ritual is a ritual is a ritual, nothing more, nothing less. It seems that folks have needed rituals since the beginning of...folks like rituals, like performing them, for some, it is a ritual contest...I'm better at this ritual than you are or our rituals are better than yours, while some find true comfort in performing them and for some the practice is truly contemplative and bears the fruit of self reflection that is needed for real spiritual growth....

I do love when folks get upset with stuff surrounding their rituals like Sally's receiving holy communion when that is a no-no for non catholics...the nerve of her!:))

Rituals can be beautiful and inspiring. When I was a child I loved the Mass in Latin, loved the hymms on Christmas Eve, loved the Stations of the Cross and then I questioned all of it and found much lack in terms of real spiritual knowledge being transmitted by it all. Still, I can be very touched by some rituals, but as much as I can be touched by them, I am also very aware that it is a ritual, nothing more, nothing less, no need to make it into something more.

have a wonderful evening, ruth

I guess that is my biggest “problem” with Hinduism as I understand it. I do not think the universe is God, or “God-stuff.” I believe our Creator created a reality removed from her/him, mass and energy entirely distinct from the Creator, yet her/his Spirit is non-corporeally imbued within all of reality. The 96% dark matter/dark energy that seemingly permeates the cosmos that Dr. Singh so often writes about is not physically God, nor is non-locality, the spooky action at a distance thing, God working miraculously to keep the heavens in order. All of this physical universe can be explained scientifically, whether humankind will ever achieve such knowledge is another matter altogether.

The Spirit, the Holy Ghost if you will, as far as our consciousness perceives it, or believes to perceive it, has no physical presence in this universe whatsoever! Yet many of us certainly feel the Spirit of God, and some of us do not. I cast no judgment upon those who think the spiritual realm of existence does not exist because I myself have many times felt the same way; but I have physically felt the warmth and love of God, and I believe these occasions were actual communing with our Creator rather than some societal or self-induced mental trickery. I guess it could be some Cartesian evil demon having fun with me, but . . .

Putting matters of the heart aside, intellectually the 1st cause argument pretty much seals the deal for me too. I know we can then ask “who caused the 1st cause,” and then we can say God is the exception to the rule, and blah blah blah; yet the 1st cause just seems insurmountable (unless somebody has some new argumentation that could persuade me otherwise)!

Of course many religionists like to take the position that, “well if you have not had a spiritual relationship with our Lord and Creator there is something wrong with you;” and I think that this type of thinking is the cause of endless wars, hate, intolerance in general, and a snobbery that shall forever make it impossible for us to join together in a brother/sisterhood of humankind. In fact just go over to Townhall, the Jerusalem Post, the White House, or pretty much anywhere dot com and you can read a bunch a people that just “know” they have the correct understanding of God’s will and they are ready, willing, and quite able to send the stormtroopers (the U.S. military that is) in to show you just how “right” they are.

Alas, whether the universe is God, a part of God, or an entirely distinct entity different from God, I believe we are able to consciously unify in a shared Spirit of intent: in fact is this not what we have been doing here at intentblog for the last few years now! The problem though, there are other groups that have a shared intent, different intents, and they have a whole lot more money and power! And the money-less and powerless just kind of die off, maybe being at peace with themselves and maybe not, wishing that they too could unify their intent with the Other . . .

One day our shared Spirit will overcome our differing worldly intents. When is another question.

Peace

I am sorry, but I must comment here. Demons do not love and cannot mock the Holy Spirit. Only the Holy Spirit can love, for love is of God and the Holy Spirit is from God and of God and Jesus Christ. Demons are separated from God, therefore, they have lost this love, which is of God. God is Love and Love is God. I like to think of them as fallen angels who have lost their way from the Creator.

Love, Char

Char you don't understand, " Demon" is just a word, a word, it means nothing, but to you it invokes fear of some kind. The only demon there is is the one staring you back in the mirror, every morning. Thats right, you are as much demon as you are angel. Perfect love castes out all fear, read it girl, know it!

If anyone loves, then they are experiencing God within their heart, which is a joining of the Holy Spirit with Mankind. This is what the three as one means in the Christian baptism, as Jesus (flesh) united with God (Spirit) within the power of the Holy Spirit and they became as ONE. Even Jesus was god in flesh and said that we were gods and said that God even said that we were gods. To me, I think it's more about realizing who we really are, such as what Deepak says about awakening or enlightenment or being aware. And we are not the flesh, as it dies, so it is not real nor eternal. However, we are spirit and we can never die, so this part of us is real and eternal. That's what I think.

Love, Char

We all have our own experiences, so I respect what you believe to be true Tammy, as your truth belongs only to you. But surely your statement above to me was meant to hurt in your fear or anger as you projected or maybe jealously? And let it be known, I do not fear demons, but know them as well as the Holy Spirit. Do you think God fears a demon? It's silly, ya know.

BTW: I don't really believe in demons per se, but was making a point. However, in this world, demons are real enough and there are those who have experienced this dark energy.

At the highest level, demons do not exist but is only an illusion in separation.

Love, Char

It must have really bother someone when I said I was Hera in Gotham's post, as that person wanted to make a decision for me to be something weak and pitiful. Hera is strong and powerful. Be the other if you like ... that's your decision and leave me with mine, as it has long been decided and willed.

Rituals to me are bridges. They help one pass from one side to another. Once one is on the other side...the bridge can be left behind/blown up/torn down...it no longer matters : )

I don't have/do rituals...unless you call going to bed every night (yes, every night) or brushing my teeth a ritual LOL

We must not forget also that praying and meditation can be seen as rituals....Actually anything that we "do" in the belief it serves a purpose...misses the mark.

Me thinks u spend to much time entertaining demons, Char..

Just to give you a little heads up, I am pushing you for emotion, and I can tell you need ATTENTION, like I do, so easy on the bride and let your mount teach you to ride, that is the only way, me 2.

Horses only ALLOW riders, you see that are prey animals, only love makes them faithful to us, Char4.

And one more," Look ma, no hands"

These are for you Char, BEAUTIFUL you..

The statement “I guess it could be some Cartesian evil demon having fun with me, but . . .,” was a nod to Rene Descartes, and not meant to offend anybody. I remembered it wrongly anyways and had to look it up and sure enough Descartes’ exact writing is “Accordingly, I will suppose not a supremely good God, the source of truth, but rather an evil genius, supremely powerful and clever, who has directed his entire effort at deceiving me. . . .” (p. 62), “I should at the first opportunity inquire whether there is a God, and, if there is, whether or not he can be a deceiver. . . .” (71).

Fear not because Descartes goes on to “prove” clearly and distinctly that God exists (“it is obvious to anyone who pays close attention that existence can no more be separated from God’s essence than its having three angles equal to two right angles can be separated from the essence of a triangle, or than that the idea of a valley can be separated from the idea of a mountain” (89), (Anselm would be so proud, too bad Kant destroyed this “proof”!), as Descartes also “proves” the existence of the human soul, “it is certain that I am really distinct from my body, and can exist without it” (96) [mind-body dilemma], an assertion that comes from his famous cogito ergo sum, I am thinking therefore I am, you should read it for yourself, it does not stand the test of rigorous logic in my eyes, but . . .

It is a very interesting read!

Descartes, Rene. “Discourse on Method and Meditations on First Philosophy” 4th ed. Trans. Donald A. Cress. Indianapolis: Hackett, 1998.

Anyway that is where the Cartesian evil demon thing came from.

Peace

I know you folks are having a serious conversation here, but I thought this was funny:[If you don't like jokes please skip]

The Pope and the Rabbi

Several centuries ago, the Pope decreed that all the Jews in Italy had to convert to Catholicism or leave. There was a huge outcry from the Jewish community, so the Pope offered a deal. He'd have a debate with a religious leader of the Jewish community. If the Jews won, they could stay in Italy; if the Pope won, they'd have to convert or leave. The Jewish people met and picked an aged and wise rabbi to represent them in the debate. However, as the Rabbi spoke no Latin, and the Pope spoke no Hebrew, they agreed that it would be a "silent" debate.

On the chosen day the Pope and Rabbi sat opposite each other. The Pope raised his hand and showed three fingers. The Rabbi looked back and raised one finger. Next the Pope waved his finger around his head. The Rabbi pointed to the ground where he sat. The Pope brought out the communion wafer and a chalice of wine. The Rabbi pulled out an apple. With that, the Pope stood up and declared himself beaten and said that the Rabbi was too clever. The Jews could stay in Italy.

Later the cardinals met with the Pope and asked him what had happened. The Pope said, "First I held up three fingers to represent the Trinity. He responded by holding up a single finger to remind me there is still only one God common to both our beliefs." Then, I waved my finger around my head to show him that God was all around us. He responded by pointing to the ground to show that God was also right here with us.

"I pulled out the wine and wafer to show that God absolves us of all our sins. He pulled out an apple to remind me of the original sin. He bested me at every move and I could not continue."

Meanwhile, the Jewish community gathered to ask the Rabbi how he'd won. "I haven't a clue," the Rabbi said. "First, he told me that we had three days to get out of Italy, so I gave him the finger. "Then he told me that the whole country would be cleared of Jews and I told him that we were staying right here!" " And then what?" asked a woman. "Who knows?" said the rabbi. "He took out his lunch so I took out mine."

What happens at a certain level of realisation is that there is no purpose to ritual.

The purpose of doing is forgotten entirely in everything and all things are allowed to happen as they are arising.

A good example is going on a trip somewhere.... for many people there is the anxiety and stress of preperation for the trip and all of the preconceptions about the trip.

What happens for me now - I do quite a bit of traveling, but I just find myself in the place I want to go to. The preperation and the traveling just takes place with the right co-ordination and the right attention on the details that need to be taken care of. It is funny because even time to travel and time when traveling mean very little to me. "I am" already you see, the place and the time is secondary to where "I am" at all times. Which is infinately present in this moment.

The only ritual that is really worth practicing at all is selflessness.

Remember to be selfless always and then it can still be thought of as a ritual but there is nobody left to be involved with the ritual and that is where the real importance of ritual lies in selfless ritual.

Love

Simon xx

Thats a Great Story

Bonnie

Cheers!

xx

Deepak,

Agreed it is a bunch of baloney. I went to church as a kid but did not want to be confirmed as I disagreed with the church forbidding women to be priests. But anyway, at my sister's wedding as an adult I felt how excluded I was--while my sister was handing out the eucharist I was getting dirty looks from my father for going up to receive the eucharist. I guess that's what love is all about! Judging people, making them feel unwelcome, and offering privilages to people who give up their right to think and question.

It makes me want to throw up. All these people so full of
self-importance, tooting their own horns about how holy they are, looking down on others for this reason, that reason. I will stick with the woods--that is where I find God, where I have always found God and where I can hear him or her or whatever without other people sucking the life out of me.

And for God's sake--no I do not want to be in a community of believers. Oh groan--to hear the self-importance, the feigned intellectual B.S., the patronizing of the unfortunate. I would rather catch a glimpse of a flower, a snake, a lizard, a cloud than hear some man just drone on and on and on the same thing over and over.

It feels like you have a lot of anger Olivia...

You have a lot of Self to be angry about it seems

Give it to me.

Love

Simon xx

Simon,

Thanks. I don't know what "Self" means. Anger, yes, I guess I am angry today, about many things, sadly I am not able to commune with my higher self today or be an outside observer to my turbulent emotions. Is this why people take up drinking?

Yes its true.. Olivia, Simon is very Good at seeing truth, he sees it sometimes before you do! He is an exellent, healer in that he knows how to get it out of you, so to speak. Its a wonderful gift, yup!

I love you

Olivia,

As long as you are offering... I will have a large Jack Daniels and Coke please,

:-)

Love

Simon xx

That sounds great right about now. Make mine large too. How about some Metallica in the background or maybe somethin more mellow--Willie Nelson--either way I'm game.

Lets get this party started!

xx Do you like Led Zepplin?

playing A Whole lotta Love.....

because thats just what you are Olivia "A Whole lotta love"

xx

I Am Hera.

((((ME))))

:-)

Love, Char

Sorry Char? you will have to speak up for the music...... help yourself to a drink!

xx

Thanks for sharing that story Bonnie ... it was great!

Love, Char

Simon,

In fact I do (love the Zep). In fact that is just what I need right now some Zeppellin--thinking "You need coolin'" and "Babe I"m gonna leave you".

it is dishonesty that tears our focus away from the Real Self.

There is no higher self, nor is there any lower self. To believe in these forms of self is the dishonesty.

To be ultimately honest requires one to have the candle of the divine shining out all other forms of self.

When you be with Self then you have problems....

You are Selfish..

When you Be........

Then there are no problems, you have outgrown them through total honesty to your true nature. There isn't anyhing to be undersood than this you see.

You have outgrown Your Self/Selfishness

What remains is the permenant state of pure being, The real self in all of this.

Never think of this being as outside of you, higher than you or in any place. It is you; you see.

You are that already without the need for any extra content... bringing more selfishness in what ever form means to have more dishonesty and in turn brings more suffering and more distraction from the honest self.

Being honest with yourself is the greatest healing there is.

Love

Simon xx

Lets Hear some Zepp!

xx

Led Zeppelin did I hear somebody say!?!?!?!?

Click me name!

And of course . . .

The Rain Song!

Empyrius,

Awesome! I also watched "Since I Been Lovin' YOu on the Rain Song LInk--another classic.
I remember in high school driving around with this kid in his '69 Mustang just listening to the Zep for weeks on end--so many good songs.

Simon,

That sounds a lot like the Shakespearean quote "this above all things, to thyself be true". Much easier said than done, but I guess it is all of our jobs to do that.

Hey Char

You are welcome. After all I could not let Simon the Geordie lad be the only one to post stories on IB. :)

For Led Zep lovers...I have posted this before but worth another listen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwvlQ1DIMDU

Glad you enjoyed the vids Olivia!

Bonnie your link led to this: "The video you have requested is not available."

Will try again later though.

Peace all

Olivia,

You said

Simon,

That sounds a lot like the Shakespearean quote "this above all things, to thyself be true". Much easier said than done, but I guess it is all of our jobs to do that
...................................................

Honestly I wouldn't know I never met the guy...

it isn't anything to do with anybody but yourself...

You see the past and who said; are not now.... it is all together now- ... thef ootsteps of the divine do not wash out with the rain you see....

I am as I was and as I will be - without discourse

Shakespeare, what about Shakespeare?

What about Einstein?

Malcom X

The Catcher in the Rye
Moses, Jesus or the man in the moon

They only bled my blood

I am them now... They are the one who listens to Led Zepplin

Everybody is a Wish of the divine Lord

Know not yourself away from anything.... be great as your blood is the same water and dust as Shakespeare and flows with the same poetry as his blood carried and then fell back to dust and water.

I am William Shakespear, I am Jesus, I am the baby just born, I am the Malcom X... my blood by its same property is the testimony and evidence that I am.....

What was here was always here, What will be here in the now was alway here.

You ain't going anywhere

You have aways Been a good friend of mine

Yet you are always saying farewell

Yet you ain't going anywhere.... you will always be a good a friend of mine with your feet in the wishing well

Do you fancy another drink?

Love

Simon xx

Craig
Try this one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvIQ1DIMDU

B

geeze so sorry (I hit my finger with a hammer trying to hang a picture and can't type]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwvIQ1DIMDU

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=VjOsz4BDkCE&feature=related

Simon,

That is rather poetic--I enjoyed reading it. It made me feel quite special there for a few minutes. And yes, I would love another drink!

Some fresh coffee for you Olivia

Love

Simon xx

Mieke,

I have updated my e-mail addy on my profile page. Don't use the old one that you had as it looks like I have lost that one for good now and I wont recieve any mail on it.

Keep in touch where ever you are going

Love

Simon xx

Simon thanks! Bookmarked :)

xx Mieke

Wow Bonnie
That was a trip in the deepest meaning of the word.

'WHEN WE ARE ONE AND ONE IS ALL...............TO BE A ROCK AND NOT ROLL"

Yo

derek

Because it all seems to be about rituals, hereunder my story without a membercard whatsoever :):

The androgynous/hermaphroditic Adam-Lilith in union was the original form of humanity.

Lilith is the black Madonna that is as much a part of the feminine Trinity as the other two: The Madonna of the Beautiful Window, and Mary, ascending to heaven. I am talking about the three Madonna’s that I have seen in the famous Cathedral of Chartres. See my story on my website: http://www.heartphone.org/chartresenglish.htm

All three of them are the exact counterpart of that what Jesus is talking about when he refers to the fact that the Father and He are one. Together with the Holy Spirit, this forms the masculine Trinity.

Jesus and Mary Magdalene are the Adam-Lilith of the beginning of the first century.

How would we call this Unity in the New Age?

Father and Mother I suppose? Sun, Moon and their union gave birth to earth?

Aren’t they all metaphors for the celestial bodies?

And whether it is through religion or through science, aren’t we all talking about one and the same object: Humanity together with all other living beings?

The desire to be human in this new age is to be able to live according to ones own inner experience of that truth above. And that does differ a lot and has everything to do with that region from which one originated.

The age of Aquarius is all about being unique in ones own individuality and being One in the fact of being a Human.

And now the most beautiful Apocalyptica

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbTozgoj9OQ&feature=related

It has often been speculated that Jesus or Esa had spent some of his life in India or had been at least Influenced by the ancient philosohy of the sages there.

I and my Father are one is very easy to understand at any level or any point of view.

It is just what is left for any of us after we give up all selfishness and be totally honest with the moment that we have as reality.

Everything becomes none defined, The "I" is the same as "Them"

Myself becomes the same as My Father or Mother.

Everything around you is recycled as the same earth; including all that appears to be living or dead.

The Atmosphere that protects you on this planet is a system as is the body that you inhabit right now... from a realised sense the Atmosphere of planet earth and the human body are not divided at all.

They are one and the same.

Love

Simon xx