For the love of god! put some clothes on! are you trying to drive the lads and ladies, crazy!?

I'm with you philosophically on this for sure.

I had a laugh when you celebrated the realization 'not being a person' liberating. Haha, I have felt the same way many times.

However, I think that the Indian philosophers we have that are frustrated with science are missing an important aspect of science.

I think that science should be allowed to discover consciousness and verify its existence by its own means.
They have the four forces you mentioned, and they have been able to verify them and get consistent results from the application of that knowledge. Scientists have duplicated each others work, independently verified it, and so on, using the scientific method.

The problem is that of postulating consciousness. Now of course you will say, it doesn't have to be postulated, it just is, it already exists.

Even if that's true, it would violate the scientific method to simply postulate consciousness, assign it some properties (such as non-locality and entanglement, or not being subject to space-time limitations) and start using the postulated consciousness in the science.

You are speaking as a meditator, speaking from the direct experience of the meditative viewpoint. That's my language, I understand it, and as a meditator, my experience with over three decades of the meditative experience, I can say that I have independently verified what you say is true.

That works fine inside our traditions of meditative exploration, and agrees with what people who have gone deep in the meditative exploration have been saying for centuries, from Patanjali on up through Osho.

But science is not inside that tradition. They have their own methodologies. For consciousness to be accepted scientifically it must be discovered and verified like the four forces, like the existence of light waves, like the wave/particle duality of light, etc.

Gravity, in particular, has given the scientists a rough time. It is everywhere, ubiquitous in the cosmos. We all experience it all the time, everyone agrees that we are affected by gravity.

Nevertheless, finding out what gravity actually is, what sources gravity, and knowing how it works in relation to the other forces is still a big problem.

The right way to solve that problem is to continue to apply the scientific method to it, and see to what further discoveries and understandings that leads.

The wrong way would be to say "hey, it obviously exists because it affects us all, so we'll just postulate some properties for it. That makes stuff a lot easier to explain."

I don't think we should do that with consciousness either.

I say let the physicists come to it on their own.

To simply jump to the conclusion and randomly assign properties, just in the interest of making problems easier to solve, cheats all humanity out of every important discovery and understanding that is to be gained along the way.

There's a place for science. It got us to the moon, and solved many diseases. The meditative philosophers long ago understood that all the cosmos is related, and that is nice and (probably) true.

Science, however, does the essential hard work of figuring out exactly how the interrelatedness works in physical reality, and they have a method that has proven itself over centuries for doing so.

If you change the scientific method, then what you have is not science.

Unfortunately, the word science has been applied to spiritual practices as well, and this leads to a lot of confusion.

Although what Patanjali and others did was methodical and experimental/experiential, the methodology is not the same as what a particle physicist uses.

If they discover consciousness as a separate primary force, they have to be able to verify it and test it.

Asking them to meditate in order to so is not valid within the scientific method. Even if they do meditate and validate it through their spiritual practice (as perhaps you and some others have done), for it to be valid science it still has to be validated through the scientific method.

I'm perfectly fine to allow science that process, because I think that the enrichment to the human species will be immense, even if it takes along time time to accomplish. Shortcutting that process, I think will not be helpful.

Alas, as far as we know the four fundamental forces have not consciousness, as we humans understand consciousness, or else we would be communicating with these elemental forces. Perhaps we have yet to discover the true language these primordial forces employ, though we are speaking about it while the cosmos “simply” hums. Aye, what we declare to be insentience is mayhap naught more than our individual consciousnesses lacking a collective quietude . . .

Silent stillness poses with infinite awareness!

Bringing us to the stark fact that only my consciousness am I aware of, as this phenomena likewise applies to you. Leaving us to together discover “the gap” between one another as well as between us and the universe at large.

Whilst creation stretches the universe further apart, in a trillion years all will be energy-less and coldly dark. Wherefore then shall be our consciousness? In a new heaven and earth? Or shall war with Iran much sooner bring New Jerusalem to earth?

Between “creative” destruction and complacent desolation lies humanity’s salvation; beyond physical action yet within the material universe lies a power unseen that throughout infinity traverses; between the atom and the universe there is an undiscovered force that leaves us accursed until we collectively apprehend it’s unifying verse.

One day!

pax vobiscum

Hmmm...hummm...hum a long...if I

Hmmm...If I hum...hummm...along with

Hmmm...Craig...hummm...then soon we

Hmmm...hummm...we shall soon be back

Hmmm...a humm...a him...a her...amen

Hmmm...The Word...The Verse...The Tune

Hmmm...the truth is hum...able, so hummm

Hmmm...someone...hmmm...create an eraser

Hmmm...hummm...now draw in non-existence

Hmmm...now go play...hmmm...outside of there

.

Today!

Dunn Bin Arbor

Keithy the constant smile-bringer!

Awesome!

When you said; we’ll have the ability or freedom to visit other dimensions after reaching Eternity. I wonder about that, because it doesn’t seem like that’s a possibility, although deep down I hope that it is possible, however I’m not counting on it. There are all sorts of stories about saints coming back, and I don’t believe any of them, because you see what you want to see, and the mind can pretty much conjure up anything. You need physical eyes to see this dimension, and with the absence of a body you’ll have to attain another, but who is there to want that now? ~Kurt~

Awareness; where dose your mind go; when the phone RINGS? the speakers voice? notice your thoughts, then realization, ( very cool )
this is an amazing moment for reflection. check it out.

2/3

Hello friends,

I went for a very nice hike in the park earlier today. Halfway through, I chose a nice cool spot in the shade under some beautiful oak trees to rest for awhile, and it was wonderful as I laid down on my blanket and looked up at the lovely patterns the leaves made against the sky. There was a nice, soft breeze that wafted through the warm morning sun, and I could smell a lovely scent of something...I'm not sure what...camphor? eucalyptus?...don't know, but it was nice...

I love the quote of Vashista:

"Infinite worlds come and go, in the vast domain of my consciousness, like motes of dust dancing in a beam of light..."

That's how my mind/consciousness is lately...like moving images...movies...each infinite worlds of itself and like motes of dust going in and out of the light...

Imagine that!

Love, M:)

URGENT!

Dear deepak,
First of all, your books are amazing and i have read most of them. Thank you for all the effort you are taking as a citizen of the cosmos to uplift everyone spiritually. I am definitely one of the benefited one.

I have come across all kinds of books written by many spiritual masters but i was DISTURBED (uncomfortable) reading a book published by Dr. Tom J Chalko titled "The Freedom of Choice" (available for free at www.thefreedomofchoice.com). According to the author, the book was written after years of meditation, period of fasting and etc. The content of the book is really amazing (simple but profound). The DISTURBING part is, the author believes in the existence of the 9th spiritual Planet called Thiaoouba based on a book written by Michel Desmarquet on his abduction experience with the beings of spiritual planet Thiaoouba (www.thiaoouba.com).

Well, after reading both books, im totally CONFUSED. How can an enlightened person like Dr. Chalko believe in this? or am i wrong? Because as i know, once attained enlightment, the secret of the universe will be revealed by ur higher self.

Please look into this and give ur thoughts on this.

Thank you

"Namaste"

p/s: ppl in forum, please give ur thoughts on this after reading the both books.

Ooops...correction in the Vashista quote above: "domain" should read "expanse"...hehe, quite a difference, eh? Here it is again:

"Infinite worlds come and go in the vast expanse of my consciousness, like motes of dust dancing in a beam of light..."

M:)

Neelesh,
Forget about Dr. Chalko.
Put the books in the trash.
Read more of Deepak.