It is such a lovely Fallish feeling kind of day ... and I am traveling to Atlanta ...

I hope everyone today at IB enjoys the warmth and sunshine too - whereever you are, know I love you.

~ Kate

"When it's over, I want to say: all my life I was a bride married to amazement. I was the bridegroom, taking the world into my arms."
MO

Why do you do that voodoo that you do so well? Do you have any Goo Be Gone? It's at the hardware store and gets the sticky stuff off the thing its stuck to.

prophecy.me

Ref # 94 of the previous OT.

The Chopras are seeking to reach critical mass with a message of personal, social, environmental and spiritual wellness. Can we reach it without a stable political and financial world?

Some thoughts on “the bailout”:

The 700 billion to one trillion dollar emergency bailout bill reminds one of the Iraq war vote. The world will end if this is not done in a hurry. But it does not matter how much spin is put on the final bill or how many senators get cowed that this is necessary, in the end it's a huge mistake.

This bailout has to be done through a trickle up scheme not from the top down. Why couldn't there be a giant bailout bill for homeowner mortgages, or the idea Hillary Clinton mentioned on a moratorium on foreclosures. This Paulson bailout bill will delay the hard times but it won’t cure the system that created this mess. The hard times will follow, someone has to take care of the ten trillion dollars the US owes its creditors or the 53 trillion dollars debt the US government has in various other forms.

The lawmakers may be well advised not to rush to pass anything, even when urged to do so.

If you are interested in what probably is “the biggest bailout in the history of the world” please watch Bill Clinton tonight on Larry King.

Kate, you are a sweetheart. The world would be a better place with more people like you.
Skep

~~~
brothers
..lucille clifton
(being a conversation in eight poems between an aged Lucifer and God, though only Lucifer is heard. The time is long after)

1
invitation

come coil with me
here in creation's bed
among the twigs and ribbons
of the past. i have grown old
remembering the garden,
the hum of the great cats
moving into language, the sweet
fume of the man's rib
as it rose up and began to walk.
it was all glory then,
the winged creatures leaping
like angels, the oceans claiming
their own. let us rest here a time
like two old brothers
who watched it happen and wondered
what it meant.

2
how great Thou art

listen. You are beyond
even Your own understanding.
that rib and rain and clay
in all its pride,
its unsteady dominion,
is not what you believed
You were,
but it is what You are;
in your own image as some
lexicographer supposed.
the face, both he and she,
the odd ambition, the desire
to reach beyond the stars
is You. All You. All You
the lonliness, the perfect
imperfection.

3
as for myself

less snake than angel
less angel than man
how come i to this
serpent's understanding?
watching creation from
a hood of leaves
I have foreseen the evening
of the world.
as she as she
the breast of Yourself
separated out and made to bear,
as sure as her returning,
I too am blessed with
the one gift You cherish;
to feel the living move in me
and to be unafraid

4
in my own defense

what could i choose
but to slide along behind them,
they whose only sin
was being their father's children?
as they stood with their backs
to the garden,
a new and terrible luster
burning their eyes,
only You could have called
their ineffable names.
only in their fever
could they have failed to hear.

5
the road led from delight

into delight, into the sharp
edge of seasons, into the sweet
puff of bread baking, the warm
vale of sheet and sweat after love,
the tinny newborn cry of calf
and cormorant and humankind
and pain, of course,
always there was some bleeding,
but forbid me not
my meditation on the outer world
before the rest of it, before
the bruising of his heel, my head,
and so forth.

6
"the silence of God is God"
-Carolyn Forche

tell me, tell us why
in the confusion of a mountain
of babies stacked like cordwood,
of limbs walking away from each other,
of tongues bitten through
by the language of assault,
tell me, tell us why
You neither raised your hand
Nor turned away, tell us why
You watched the excommunication of
That world and You said nothing

7
still there is mercy, there is grace

how otherwise
could i have come to this
marble spinning in space
propelled by the great
thumb of the universe?
how otherwise could the two roads
of this tongue
converge into a single
certitude?
how otherwise
could I, a sleek old
traveler,
curl one day safe and still
beside YOU
at Your feet, perhaps,
but, amen, Yours.

8
"....is God"

so.
having no need to speak
You sent Your tongue
splintered into angels,
even I,`
with my little piece of it
have said too much.
to ask You to explain
is to deny You.
before the word
You were
You kiss my brother mouth.
the rest is silence.

My goodness, Bonnie. Thank you.

"One thing should be clear: the conservative era is over. The theology of market fundamentalism has proven to be a false idol once more. As Joseph Stiglitz has argued, the collapse of Wall Street is to the market fundamentalists what the fall of the Berlin Wall was to communism. It's over. The right has proved once more that it cannot be trusted to run the government it scorns. A trillion dollar debacle in Iraq. A trillion dollar bust on Wall Street. Hundreds of billions pocketed by Big Pharma and Big Oil. It is time for a reckoning."

#5 '.....the rest is silence.'
I heard the voice of Jesus say
Come unto me and rest.

Finally, a definition of globalization that I can understand and to which I now can relate:

Question:
What is the truest definition of Globalization?

Answer:
Princess
Diana's
death.

Question:
How come?

Answer :

An
English princess
with an
Egyptian boyfriend

crashes
in a French tunnel,
driving a

German
car

with a
Dutch engine,

driven
by a Belgian

who was
drunk

on
Scottish whisky,

(check the bottle before you
change the spelling),

followed
closely by

Italian
Paparazzi,

on
Japanese motorcycles;

treated
by an American doctor,
using

Brazilian
medicines.

This is
sent to you by

an
American,

using
Bill Gates's technology,

and
you're probably reading
this on your computer,

that
uses Taiwanese chips,
and

a

Korean
monitor,

assembled
by

Bangladeshi
workers

in a
Singapore plant,

transported
by Indian

lorry-drivers,

hijacked
by Indonesians,

unloaded by
Sicilian longshoremen,

and
trucked to you by Mexican illegals.... .

.

.

.

.

.

That, my friends,
is Globalization!

To All Concerned:

I believe that Kavita Chhibber deserves a great deal of admiration for all the work and time that she has invested in trying to help Troy Anthony Davis.

Troy got his "miracle" yesterday - the day he was to be put to death. The U.S. Supreme Court intervened and issued him a stay of execution.

Kavita deserves everyone's support and encouragement in attempting to get Troy's story told to the whole country. Troy needs everyone's help so that he will be given a just hearing and finally be released from prison.

Best Wishes,

"Betsy" S.

Shadows

a twilit sun slides behind silver
late
on the edge of evening's colors

shadows of things
are deeper
than they've been since I was a child

I swear I can smell the cold
on every curve and angle
edging me in

I should be scared
but
from mouth to groin
I feel the touch of you
of everything you do
and how you are

I should go
but until you tell me so
I'll stay

McCain suspends campaign tomorrow in order to take part on the bailout debate. He urges Obama to do the same.

Very interesting.

Does McCain say, “a bailout bill has to be passed before the weekend”?

Let’s hope not!

afternoon all,

just read this, John McCain suspends campaigning to work on economy, requests postponing Friday debate; asks Obama do the same."

Really, John, now, wants to work on the economy....and, wants, Obama, to help him...."let's postpone the great debates and gather together in Washington DC....to save our Nation's financial system......what do ya say Barak?....or are you too busy...because I am not....no, my Nation needs me in this time of crisis, no matter, that, I probably could have worked on the economy a bit sooner to prevent this crisis.....what is, important, is the thought...right? Come on, Barak, your studies can wait, no need to try and one-up me in the debates, let us hurry back to Washington to vote, Yes, to paying the ransom the terrorists of Wall Street are demanding, this week, next week, will be too late...if the $700 billion is not paid by friday.....they have promised to dump the corpse at CNBC....for all to grieve over in prime time. So, how bout it Barak, are you the patriot you claim to be?

Now, Bush will speak.....does he have to?....haven't we suffered enough already as a Nation under his leadership....does he have to throw salt on our bleeding wounds while the Wall Street terrorists hit us up for all we are worth?.. the gun is at our temples, and Bush saunters out to address his peeps....his, oh, so poor, peeps.

Yes, Barak, hurry, hurry, back to the scene of the crimes, Washington DC, with John....save us from the Wall St. terrorists, for this quarter, anyway....actually I am not sure what is more painful, the state of our economy or Bush addressing the Nation he quided to financial ruin.

really, both the Democrats and Republicans have nothing to be proud of in terms of protecting and serving the greater good of this Nation. In fact, they do not even stop the role playing...good guy...bad guy...routine, to check a map, in order to see if there is any high road available on this highway to destruction...

ruth

Here in the shadows
Cold comfort.
Birthings, dyings
Slither my tongue
Salival smearings
Drying crystalline
Dying for light

# 9 by ole flabsy...

whoahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaa......

Staying connected to yourself is the only key to happiness. When you know that nothing is an effort and everything is exciting, know that you are connected with love which is the foundation of everything in this world. Go out and stretch your perspectives to do something better to create, even a small difference in someone's life or some situation. The more we take up the responsibilities the more that circle expands that can encompass the whole community,city,country and the world. But remember to replenish that creative emotional energy spent in the process by taking short retreats into silence. Wish you all a very happy day at IB.
All my love,
Garima

Yeah good 1 Norm!

he-he

yo skeptisch...u think? damn!

McCain's trying to slide the rug out from under Obama.

"McCain's trying to slide the rug out from under Obama."

Hope he gets the job done...and he bumps his head when he falls!! :) hheheheeh!!

"McCain's trying to slide the rug out from under Obama."

Hope he gets the job done...and he bumps his head when he falls!! :) hheheheeh!!

"McCain's trying to slide the rug out from under Obama."

Hope he gets the job done...and he bumps his head when he falls!! :) hheheheeh!!

ooopppsss!!! 3 times the charm!

Cold.

“Hope he gets the job done...and he bumps his head when he falls!!”

No need for that, it looks like McCain bumped his head a few times before on his many trips and falls and pretty hockey mom Sarah may have gotten in-between a few hockey fights too many.

Good to have you back, Skinny.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/25/us/politics/25mccain.html

"...Obama appeared at a news conference in Clearwater, Fla., and said that while he agreed “there are times for politics and there are times to rise above politics and do what’s right, ” he saw no need to cancel the debate, scheduled for Friday night at the University of Mississippi.

"“This is exactly the time when people need to hear from the candidates,” he said.

"He added: “Part of the president’s job is to deal with more than one thing at once. In my mind it’s more important than ever.”

"Mr. Obama said that he and Mr. McCain had spoken for about five minutes by telephone on Wednesday afternoon, but during that conversation he said he was not left with the impression that Mr. McCain planned to skip the debate. The two men agreed in principle to issue a joint statement about the bipartisan need for a government bailout, providing it met a list of oversight conditions.

"While aides to both sides said a statement was in the works, it was overtaken by a series of behind-the-scenes maneuvers between the rival campaigns. Advisers to Mr. Obama said they were taken by surprise at Mr. McCain’s call to postpone the debate and suspend his campaign..."

...more...

"...Although Mr. McCain was the first to emerge on Wednesday afternoon and announce a change in campaign plans, Mr. Obama began the exchange with his Republican rival on Wednesday morning.

"“At 8:30 this morning, Senator Obama called Senator McCain to ask him if he would join in issuing a joint statement outlining their shared principles and conditions for the Treasury proposal and urging Congress and the White House to act in a bipartisan manner to pass such a proposal,” said Bill Burton, the spokesman for the Obama campaign.

"“At 2:30 this afternoon,” he added, “Senator McCain returned Senator Obama’s call and agreed to join him in issuing such a statement...”"

hi heath,

boy, that Johnny is slithering his way into every nook and cranny available to him....you gots to hand it to the ole white haired dude.....he can slither with the best of them.

slither and slime, slither and slime he goes and when he is stopped we all will know...November 4th 2008.

:) and a good evening to you heath and everyone, ruth

macain is afraid to get his old ass royally kicked...which is why he's using this Wall St. melt-down to chicken out a friday's debate....shame on u dino! like they say, u can run but u can't hide....

"Part of the president’s job is to deal with more than one thing at once..."

!

(still waitin' for that blog, you have it in you, your writing tells the story, dear ruth.)

yup.

......WHEN YOU SEE EVERY COLOR OF THE RAINBOW...

Once upon time, in a faraway land, an old whitehaired dude, and young black feller...

To read the rest of this article, please go to "Invent.con".....

I hear you Norm, they are phasing us out bro (Ruth commented on this before!).

peace always brother

Another "Bush Doctrine" moment for Palin.

Katie Couric promised that there would be no "gotcha" moments during her interview with Sarah Palin. But given Palin's wildly obvious lack of preparation, that wasn't a promise Couric could keep.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xpb7z_PjbAs

Here's the transcript:

Below starts at 4:30 into the video, but you must see the whole thing to see how she relies on talking points, and then the cute stunt someone showed her to compare Obama to the political winds, licking her finger... then in the end it all crashes down in total bullshit. This woman is nothing short of a dangerous muppet...

"COURIC: You've said, quote, "John McCain will reform the way Wall Street does business." Other than supporting stricter regulations of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac two years ago, can you give us any more example of his leading the charge for more oversight?

PALIN: I think that the example that you just cited, with his warnings two years ago about Fannie and Freddie--that, that's paramount. That's more than a heck of a lot of other senators and representatives did for us.

COURIC: But he's been in Congress for 26 years. He's been chairman of the powerful Commerce Committee. And he has almost always sided with less regulation, not more.

PALIN: He's also known as the maverick though. Taking shots from his own party, and certainly taking shots from the other party. Trying to get people to understand what he's been talking about--the need to reform government.

COURIC: I'm just going to ask you one more time, not to belabor the point. Specific examples in his 26 years of pushing for more regulation?

PALIN: I'll try to find you some and I'll bring them to you."

As Marc Ambinder asks, "This should have been an easy question for Palin to answer, right?" And we wonder why Palin is staying away from the media -- and John McCain is running away from debates.

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/09/couric_v_palin_on_mccains_reco.php

By now you know that the initial public reaction to John McCain's move was overwhelmingly negative.

But just how important was it for McCain to make time? Apparently not so important to cancel a meeting with a very wealthy supporter this morning, as Ben Smith at The Politico reports:

"The McCain campaign's new urgency about the financial crisis didn't entirely clear his schedule this morning.

My colleague Amie Parnes reports that he made it to his scheduled morning meeting with Lady Lynn de Rothschild, a Clinton backer who recently came out in support of him.

All while Obama was waiting by the phone for a returned call."

We all know that this was a political stunt by the McCain campaign. The American people intuit this, the establishment press believe this, and the chattering class can't help but admit it. This story from Smith can't help but reinforce this meme. Tough, tough break for McCain.

****

Even Letterman called McCain out on today's show for pulling a political stunt.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0908/Letterman_mocks_McCain_cancellation.html

"David Letterman tells audience that McCain called him today to tell him he had to rush back to DC to deal with the economy."

Except that he hadn't run back to DC at all, in fact he was just up the street being interviewed by Katie Couric.

"Dave even cut over to the live video of the interview, and said, "Hey Senator, can I give you a ride home?"

Letterman also lambasted McCain for what he clearly feels was just a political maneuver:

"You don't suspend your campaign. This doesn't smell right. This isn't the way a tested hero behaves." [...] "What are you going to do if you're elected and things get tough? Suspend being president? We've got a guy like that now!"

When you've lost Letterman...

David Letterman really skewers John McCain on his campaign suspension, late cancellation of his scheduled appearance on the Late Show and Sarah Palin. Very devastating. Here's the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjkCrfylq-E

As Ben Smith reports(#37), McCain broke his deep focus on Economy to meet a wealthy aristocrat.

It's not that McCain was lying about his concern for the economy, that's just what Republicans do. It's the lack of self-awareness in doing so. I mean, at least the Bushies understood the norms of the liberal democratic state they were trying to undermine.

Incidentally, North Korea is restarting its nuclear program, glad McCain wants to cancel the foreign policy debate.

Given McCain camp's reactions, I can't help but wonder if delaying, or even canceling, the VP debate was ultimately McCain's endgame here.

“I can't help but wonder if delaying, or even canceling, the VP debate was ultimately McCain's endgame here”.

Preity, if it isn’t his endgame then this surly will be:

“An ancestor of U.S. presidential candidate Barack Obama probably originates from the region of Berne, Switzerland, as the archivist of the Alsatian town Bischwiller explained. The ancestor left in 1749 in the direction of America.

http://www.zisch.ch/navigation/top_main_nav/nachrichten/panorama/detail.htm?client_request_className=SdaNewsItem&client_request_contentOID=293509

Makes about as much sense as many other things in this campaign!

latest EC vote standings...

macain...200

'bama...223

swing states 120

they put Penn and Micigan in the swing cat..21, 17

both went dems in 2004

colorado (9) has 'bama leading by a good margin..it went repubs in 2004..

if these states stay the same way on nov. 4th...Barack Obama will be the next prez of the United States of America.

bushman is a con man!

CBS News has an extended version of the Sarah Palin interview with Katie Couric on their website.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/24/eveningnews/main4476173.shtml

This interview is truly a trainwreck. She attempts to talk about bipartisanship and the Wall Street bailout.

I had a really difficult time following what she was saying in most of the interview. It seems to me that she is really an Eliza program.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELIZA

An Eliza program is a computer program that provides responses to questions by rephrasing the question. The answers are nonresponsive, but just enough to make it seem like there may be artificial intelligence there. If you ever took a LISP programming course in college, you probably have written an Eliza program. Usually the programmer will give the Eliza program a personality. For example, you could write an Eliza program to be an annoying room mate, or you could write an Eliza program to behave like an unprepared vice presidential candidate.

Sarah Palin is a vice presidential candidate Eliza program. It is not surprising that the McCain campaign is trying to keep her away from the press.

9/25 Daily Kos R2K Tracking Poll: Obama 49, McCain 43

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/9/25/72647/2983/824/609386

"Today's Daily Kos Research 2000 tracking poll has Obama up over McCain 49-43 (Likely Voters, MoE +/- 3). All trackers are data from three days prior to posting, with R2K (ours) from today and the others from yesterday.

Obama McCain MoE +/- RV/LV
Research 2000: 49 43 3 LV
Diageo/Hotline: 48 42 3.2 RV
Rasmussen: 49 47 2 LV
Gallup: 47 44 2 RV

Here are most of the most recent national polls.

ABC/WaPo 52 43 3 LV 9/19-9/22
WSJ/NBC 48 46 3 LV 9/19-9/22
Fox News 45 39 3 RV 9/22-9/23
Ipsos/McClatchy 44 43 3.2 RV 9/18-9/22
ARG 48 46 3 LV 9/20-9/22

Note that the Battleground poll, which samples 9/17-18 and then 9/21-3 (no weekend) is here if you wish to include it. It was the outlier with McCain 48-Obama 46, but they, like Ipsos, provide little internal data.

Continuing our list of party ID used for the polls (kudos to pollsters who publish!) For those who missed yesterday's post, R2K is no outlier:

Pollster D R I (Dem-Rep)
Research 2000: 35 26 30 +9
Diageo/Hotline: 41 36 19 +5
Rasmussen: 39 33.5 27.5 +5.5
Gallup: 35 26 33 +9
ABC: 38 28 29 +10
NBC/WSJ: 43 36 16 +7 (text says +8, but this is what adds up)
Fox: 41 34 21 +7

"Any way you look at it, Obama leads; it's now the CW. The only question is by how much.

Our own last three days of polling are Obama +6 Mo, +4 Tu, +7 We. These small movements are all well within the MoE, especially any one day sample (+/- 5.1). Minor fluctuations of a point or two up and down are statistical noise. however, we will have to see how the flailing McCain campaign tracks over the next few days. "Gimmicks" don't sell well. Whether it's the cancellation of the debates, running against Letterman or Palin's "I'll get back to you on that" on simple questions to Katie Couric, the McCain campaign did not have a good day (even Peggy Noonan disapproves of the gimmicky nature of McCain's actions, and McCain booster Joe Scarborough is depressed)."

Poll roundup

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/9/25/902/82364/127/609074

"Here's a roundup of polls released this week:

First off, the competitive Kerry states. Note that "Comp" is the Pollster.com composite score.

NH(4) MI(17) MN(10) PA(21) WI(10)

Comp: M+1.2 O+3.3 O+3.2 O+2.4 O+4.3

[...]

Hold these states, and Obama needs 18 more for victory, 22 if McCain steals away New Hampshire. Here are the tightest battleground states, with polls conducted this week:

CO(9) FL(27) IA(7) IN(11) NM(5) NV(5) NC(15) OH(20) VA(13)

Comp: O+3.7 M+3.4 O+10 M+2.5 O+6.2 M+1.5 M+3.3 M+2.9 M+1

[...]

Iowa and New Mexico are looking more and more solid every day. And look at Obama's surge in Colorado. Those three states give Obama 21 EVs, enough for victory if Obama wins all the Kerry states, and puts us at the dreaded 269-269 if McCain grabs New Hampshire.

Next up in probability of victory for Obama are Virginia and Nevada."

"Our entire economy is in danger," says an idiot!

isn't this the same cat who told us about weapons of major destruction in iraq? whoa! do u trust this genius with ur money?

Hi Gang,

Well one of the side effects of this mess on wall street is going to be the creation of a whole lot of new millionaires, all former billionaires! hehehe

Cheers
Stan

"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is
strong enough to take everything you have."
-Thomas Jefferson

"Just after the September 11th terrorist attacks occurred, George W. Bush went before the nation and made the case that he needed unprecedented authority -- budgetary and military -- to take on the threats poised at the well-being and safety of the country.

Now with the current economic crisis in the United States, Bush is yet again asking for unprecedented powers and budget.

What happened after 9/11?

We saw no-bid contracts given to firms like Halliburton. We saw $9 billion of U.S. taxpayer money "go missing" through the Coalition Provisional Authority. We saw abuses of power, the expansion of secrecy, and the promulgation of norms that seemed to be the very antithesis of what America stands for." Steve Clemons.

john macain calls himself a maverick...

ok then...what is a maverick?

web def...someone who demonstrates independence of thought.

so, why should we think that because he's independent of thought? he does not subscribe to the same stupid philosophy of the dumb Republican Party that got us in this gigantic pickle?

"Procrastination is the art of keeping up with yesterday"
~~Don Marquis~~

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/9/26/72135/1708/656/610555

"Today's Daily Kos Research 2000 tracking poll has Obama up over McCain 48-43.

Obama McCain MoE +/- RV/LV
Research 2000: 48 (49) 43 (43) 3 LV
Diageo/Hotline: 47 (48) 43 (42) 3.2 RV
Rasmussen: 49 (49) 46 (47) 2 LV
Gallup: 46 (47) 46 (44) 2 RV

Here are most of the most recent national polls (I am not interested in Zogby internet).

CBS/NY Times 47 42 3 LV
Democracy Corps (D) 47 44 3 LV
WNBC/Marist 49 44 3 LV
Times/Bloomberg 49 45 3 LV

The last three days of polling in the R2K poll are +4 Tu, +7 We and +5 Th. The major network polls (ABC (+9), NBC (+2), CBS (+5), CNN (+4), Fox (+6), the ones that drive media narrative, have this a +5 Obama average lead, exactly where the R2K tracker is."

bushman wants to con the american tax payer out of nearly million million doallars...or $1,000,000,000,000.00...whoa!

it would be nutz to let this nutzo get his way, again...

World's oldest rocks discovered in Canada
Posted Fri Sep 26, 2008 7:06am AEST

Scientists say they have discovered the oldest rocks on Earth in Canada, giving them a glimpse at the origins of the planet.
The rocks, found in a belt of ancient bedrock in Quebec, are estimated to be 4.28 billion years old.

The find pushes back the age of the most ancient discovered remnants of the Earth's crust by 300 million years.

"Our discovery opens the door to further unlock the secrets of the Earth's beginnings," lead author of the study Jonathan O'Neil said.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/09/26/2374780.htm

It's the thought that counts, honey!

>>>An entire French airport had to be evacuated when a British woman tried to board an aircraft with a bomb in her hand luggage.
Security guards spotted the 55-year-old had a World War Two shell, used in army field guns, in her case ahead of her Ryanair flight from Bergerac, in the Dordogne, to East Midlands airport.

The woman, from Nottingham, said she had bought the 37mm military explosive in a second hand shop as a present for her husband.

As more than 1,000 passengers and staff were forced to leave the terminal building, bomb squad officers took the shell to nearby wasteland and carried out a controlled explosion.

A French police spokesman said the woman, who has not been named, was questionned at the scene.

He said: "She told us she had no idea that taking a military shell through airport security would cause such a fuss. She said she bought the device in a second hand shop because her husband collected military memorabilia."

He added: "Checks were made with the tradesman she bought it from and her story proved to be genuine, so charges will not be brought and she was allowed to leave."

The flight finally took off 90 minutes late with the woman on board, airport officials said. <<<
uk.news.yahoo.com

don't forget!

http://www.voteforchange.com

'bama's big mistake? (on Wall St. bail out)

"If Barack Obama goes along with it in the name of post-partisan comity, he's making a big mistake. Washington is not lacking political leaders willing to go along with the flow. It's lacking political leaders willing to lead." Arianna H.

agree!

"Instead of siding with Bush and Paulson on far too many deal points, Obama should draw a line in the sand and refuse to cross it.

Voters are not looking for smiling post-partisan photo ops. They are looking for a leader willing to fight for a bailout plan that more directly protects the interests of the American people.

Barack Obama
Henry Paulson
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: bipartisanship in service of bad legislation is not a good thing. And, make no mistake, this bailout bill -- at least if the details that are trickling out...
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: bipartisanship in service of bad legislation is not a good thing. And, make no mistake, this bailout bill -- at least if the details that are trickling out." A.H.

unless u have someting to gain from it all...

u'd have to be insane, dumb and stupid to vote republican...

imagine this mainsane and scary farting eeuuhhh!

Right on brother Diablo.

Obama should have been the first person to scream aloud, NO BAILOUT!

I believe he has good intentions, but he is caving in to the powers that fund the democratic party . . .

Here is an interesting angle I had not considered . . .

a small measure...

at this moment, in the NY Time's tag cloud, Obama's typeface is a wee bit larger than McCain's.

That gives me hope.

love & have a good weekend, y'all

h

listen up y'all...

why the f... are democrats backin' nutzo for a bailout deal...when most folks don't even understand what this whole shit means? do dems still trust this yahoo after he conned them into a damaging, costly war?

like they say..."those who forget history are..............."

i don't think 'bama is doing a good debating the old dude!

They're wrapping up, but not before McCain tries to compare Obama to Bush??? Holy crap, that's chutzpah.

MissLaura at Daily Kos:

I'm not asking y'all who won. Might as well ask a surrogate in the spin room.

That said -- *ahem* -- I was apprehensive about Obama's performance, having been underwhelmed throughout the primary season, and tonight I was pleasantly surprised. I knew the facts and the policies were on his side, but wasn't confident of his presentation. I was wrong, and I'm glad of it.

Sean and Nate at FiveThirtyEight.com :

[Nate] There's almost a reversal of roles tonight: McCain's answers are contemplative and long-winded, Obama's are much more direct.

[Sean] It is striking how much Obama is looking at McCain confidently and how McCain will not look at Obama.

[Sean] Obama: "I mean, Spain!" That went under McCain's skin, comes back with "Obama seal" card. Obama is doing more initiating of these barbs.

[Nate] That Ahmadinejad sequence was the first one I think McCain has won all night.

[Sean] But McCain looked angry and unpresidential. His temper was clearly triggered. That matters more than the substance of the argument. How you sound, how you look...

[Sean] On CNN's tracker McCain is having trouble with independents in some of these answers as the dial goes under the median.

[Nate] The media who wants to cop out from picking a winner will probably just say "Obama wins first half, McCain wins second half". But the first half is likely to matter more because (i) it was about the economy and (ii) this was a boring debate that will have a lot of people zoning out by the end.

Presidential Debate Post-Mortem: Live From Oxford

9:45 CDT: [Sean] First reaction. On the "looking presidential" front, Obama clearly seemed calm, poised, knowledgeable. McCain had a couple of angry moments. Obama looked at McCain and seemed comfortable engaging with McCain. Obama looked into the camera. McCain looked into the camera but his body language was worse, and him not looking at Obama definitely didn't make him come across as confident.

9:50 CDT: [Nate] Alex Castellanos says it was a tie, and that a tie goes to the candidate who is down in the polls. I don't see how that makes any sense. Besides, I think Begala is right that Obama's confrontation of McCain on Iraq was the moment of the night -- and the one that likely breaks the tie.

9:52 CDT: [Sean] When you think back about the debate and the big moments, I think the "You were wrong" moment and the McCain getting angry about negotiating with dictators are the two that stand out.

the war in iraq has made us less safe, created new enemies all over the world, drained our collapse..in a big way

can we afford 4 more yrs. of the same?

Reaction from Kos at Daily Kos:

Obama was forceful, poised, presidential, blah blah blah blah. You can get that shit on TV.

Here's what really struck me: Obama's biggest weakness is the notion that he's not ready or experienced enough. It was the basis of many a McCain attack: "Senator Obama doesn't understand/doesn't get it..." He flat out accused Obama of not having the judgment to lead at one point.

Obama fought back by speaking at length on every issue, aided by a format that allowed him to speak beyond 30 second sound bites, and he name dropped countries and foreign leaders by the bucketful, to underscore the fact that he knows what he's talking about. It was very effective.

There were no gaffes, and no obvious YouTube moments, so if nothing else, this debate maybe reinforced Obama's fitness to be president, but I don't think that line of attack has had much salience beyond the wingnut sense anyway.

And given where McCain is in the polls (lagging and getting worse), this wasn't what he needed tonight.

And given that the status quo probably remains, in a debate that was supposed to focus more on McCain's "strength" (national security), Obama wins.

----

One other point -- Lehrer was the best moderator, BY FAR, of any debate this season. And the audience was perfectly behaved. A triumphal debate. Perfect. Kudos to everyone involved in making it happen.

"Independents in the MediaCurves focus group gave the debate to Obama 61-39. They also think he won every individual segment. Republicans gave the debate to McCain 90-10, Democrats to Obama 93-7."

http://mediacurves.com/

After all this most of us could probably agree, Obama will be an international statesman.

McCains report card will be all over the map…

debate poll check it out, go vote.

http://jeffblack.newsvine.com/_question/2008/09/26/1919787-who-won-the-presidential-debate

Results, as of this posting:

19.3%
John McCain
7,478 votes

75.7%
Barack Obama
29,305 votes

3.6%
Tie
1,413 votes

1.4%
Not sure
535 votes

Reactions

NBC's Athena Jones:

"The longer format appears to be working for Obama, who tends to be long-winded. He hasn't been forced to give a quick answer yet.

He's on message, hitting his talking points on the contrasts with John McCain on taxes, his plans for healthcare and energy independence. He seemed to cover more ground than McCain whose main points were about cutting government spending.

For several minutes, Obama was the only one to interrupt his opponent, which seemed to be an attempt to show his willingness to fight back."

***

CNN's Borger:

"real challenge" for Obama, "he had some trouble on the surge answer...but I think if John McCain is supposed to be head and shoulders above Obama on foreign policy, Obama held his own."

***

James Antle at The American Spectator's blog:

"McCain's lack of interest in economics and monomanical focus on earmarks is putting him at a real disadvantage. He cannot rebut Obama's statist arguments by offering a mushier, less coherent version of the same."

***

Ben Smith at Politico:

Obama has been uneven, but he's landed the hardest punches.

***

David Gergen on CNN:

"John McCain needed a clear victory tonight. I think a tie was not in his interest. He is behind. And this is his best subject night ... I think he needed a clear victory tonight and that eluded him."

***

More reactions via Daily Kos:

Kos: Where is Sarah Palin? Joe Biden is all over the shows, but Palin is nowhere to be found. That forces McCain to shoulder more of the burden of his campaign, while denying his side a valuable surrogate. Funny.

Jonathan Singer, MyDD:

"There's a lot of talk on MSNBC about John McCain's demeanor. He came off as mean, condescending and a jerk, not looking at Barack once the whole night, while Barack came off as Mr. nice guy. This is generally the sort of thing people judge candidates on when they make their voting decisions, so the question is, will people judge McCain harshly for acting like a dick or will they see it as strength? Will they like Barack more or will they think he allowed McCain to roll over him?"

Josh Marshall:

"I said above that McCain didn't have any freak-out moments. But he did have that sneer and there did seem to be this thing where he was so contemptuous and angry at Obama that he couldn't get himself to make eye contact. I think we'll hear more about that.

Angry, angry, angry. Part of the key here is that McCain is clearly miffed that he even has to debate or run again Obama. He thinks it's an insult."

From Bill Burton at the Obama campaign:

"Number of times John McCain mentioned:

CHANGE: 1 time

MIDDLE CLASS: not once"

Think Progress:

"McCain has already used the joke that he wasn't "elected Miss Congeniality in the Senate" twice during this debate. Ironically, Sarah Palin was Miss Congeniality."

And from the Daily Kos community:

schof: Ultimately Obama held his own but I was surprised that McCain didn't completely shit the bed.

wittg1: That was a great format. It's one of the best debate I've seen. It shows each candidate and the moderator doesn't get on the way.

churchill: when I came home from POW huge groans in OKC

VictorK: Lehrer only asked one bad question, and that's the last one on another 9/11. Favorite Moments of the Debate: Obama's zinger on bomb bomb bomb iran. Brilliant. When Obama pointed out he had a bracelet too.

plf515: I think it was mostly a draw which is not good for McCain. Obama could have been more forceful in rejecting McCain's lies, and in bringing up what is in all the spending that McCain objects to. But McCain didn't look great either. Obama finished strong. The CNN ticker seemed to indicate more support for Obama than McCain, but I am not sure how reliable that is, and the difference didn't seem overwhelming.

Markos, dKos:

"The consensus seems clear: This was McCain's turf. He needed a solid victory, and he didn't get it. At best, it was a tie. And with the next debates focusing on economic issues, McCain will be in hostile territory.

My interpretation of all of this is that Obama won via the expectations game, but was a draw on the substantive issues.

Remember tomorrow, when the daily tracking polls are released, that they were taken before the debate. It'll take a few days for the polls to reflect any reaction to this poll. My guess would be status quo. Obama's plan was to show he was knowledgeable about foreign policy issues, and he did that. No flubs."

...

CBS News has one of undecided voters:

"40% of uncommitted voters who watched the debate tonight thought Barack Obama was the winner. 22% thought John McCain won. 38% saw it as a draw.

68% of these voters think Obama would make the right decision about the economy. 41% think McCain would.

49% of these voters think Obama would make the right decisions about Iraq. 55% think McCain would."

...

CNN/Opinion Research telephone poll, MoE 4.5%, reported on air (no link yet):

51-38 Obama win
52-47 O on iraq
58-37 economy

...

Digby:

"It's very hard for me to gauge this debate because to me John McCain is quite obviously a crazy, intemperate, nasty old bastard. He was sarcastic, contemptuous and patronizing. I really, really loathe him."

...

Halperin, Time:

Obama A-
McCain B-

...

Think Progress:

Fox’s Carl Cameron observed that Obama said that “I agree with John” at least eight times. Conversely, McCain said that Obama didn’t “understand” at least seven times.

...

Washington Post fact check:

"McCain seriously misstated his vote concerning the marines in Lebanon. He said that when he went into Congress in 1983, he voted against deploying them in Beirut. The Marines went in Lebanon in 1982, before McCain came to Congress. The vote came up a year into their deployment, when the Marines had already suffered 54 casualties. What McCain voted against was a measure to invoke the War Powers Act and to authorize the deployment of U.S. Marines in Lebanon for an additional 18 months. The measure passed 270-161, with 26 other Republicans (including McCain) and 134 Democrats voting against it."

Debate Reviews: Barack Obama Wins, "More Presidential," "Knowledgeable and Detailed"

Mark Halperin's Grades for the First Presidential Debate:

Obama : Overall grade: A-

McCain: Overall: B-

CNN Telephone Poll of 524 Adults:

Who did the best job tonight?

BO: 51

JSM: 38

Who would better handle Iraq?

BO: 52

JSM: 47

Who would better handle the economy?

BO: 58

JSM: 37

CBS Poll Results Suggest More Uncommitted Voters Saw Obama As Debate Winner:

Who won tonight's debate?

BO: 39

JSM: 25

Draw: 36

Who got better tonight?

BO: 46

JSM: 31

Who would make the right decisions about the economy?

BO: 66

JSM: 44

9:40pm MSNBC Chris Matthews "Barack Obama, who kept agreeing with McCain over and over again…looked more presidential."

9:43pm MSNBC Buchanan "He did what he had to do in the sense he came off as a tough fellow, a counterpuncher."

9:40pm MSNBC Chris Matthews: "Obama Looked More Presidential"

9:45 PM CBS – Katie Couric: "The issue of meeting with Iranian officials without preconditions and Henry Kissinger's position on that came up during my recent interview with Governor Sarah Palin. Now, after than interview I called Secretary Kissinger to clarify his position – he said he does support face-to-face talks with high-level officials in Iran without preconditions."

10:42 PM ABC - David Wright: "Obama, we saw him do 22 debates or so during the primary. He was much crisper tonight, he was much more on message."

10:45 PM FOX News – Juan Williams: "If we come back to the economic at the top, I'd have to give it to Barack Obama."

10:52 PM CNN- David Gergen: "I think John McCain needed a clear victory tonight. I think a tie was not in his interests. He is behind. This is his best subject night because the last night, they're going to be talking about the economy. I think he needed a clear victory tonight. I think that eluded him, even as strong as he was, I think Bill Bennett is absolutely right… but I don't think he walked out of here with a clear victory of the kind he needed."

10:48 PM ABC - George Stephanopoulos: "Barack Obama A minus, John McCain B plus….People wonder whether [Obama] has the experience to be President, to handle national security, and I think on answer after answer after answer, he showed confidence, he showed toughness and he showed he belonged on that stage."

11:51 PM ABC - George Stephanopoulos: And overall, bottom line, the winner is Barack Obama. He comes into this race where the country wants change, his number one goal was to show that he belonged on that stage…he could hold his own on national security, he did that tonight, he gets the win."

9:53 PM CBS – Myers: "Well, I think the one thing people were looking to, to see if Barack Obama could hold his own, could he sound like a commander in chief, did he have command of foreign policy issues, could he stand there toe-to-toe with John McCain and I think he passed that test with flying colors."

10:30 PM CNN-Gloria Borger- “He took it right to mccain on the tax issue and said to people out there, if you earn over 200 -- under $250,000 a year, nothing will happen to your taxes or you'll get a tax cut.”

10:51 PM PBS - Scott Horsley - "I think John McCain's conduct of economic policy over the last two days has to look a little erratic, has to look very seat of the pants, frankly."

10:54 PM ABC - George Will: "I think Barack Obama came out and looked comfortable and as though he belonged there. So, in a sense, the structure of the debate, indeed, the fact of the debate had to give a mild leg up to Barack Obama."

11:07 PM PBS-Mark Halperin - "I thought Obama clearly did better. I thought he had a chance to show that he was calm and prepared and capable of standing toe to toe with the more experienced McCain. I thought McCain spoke too much Washington jargon, told too many jokes in shorthand, made too many comments he knew what he meant but I don't think he conveyed it necessarily to the audience overall. I thought Obama was the better communicator an did what he needed to do to reassure people."

11:08 PM MSNBC-Richard Wolffe “That was the greatest contrast…the demeanor and the tone of voice that these candidates adopted where McCain was being much more pointed much more aggressive and curiously couldn’t look Obama in the eye. Obama’s tone much more straight and even keeled but ready to look his opponent in the eye repeatedly. A big contrast.”

Denver Post: Obama says he would send "two to three brigades" to Afghanistan. McCain implies that Obama is wet behind the ears on military matters. Obama retorts with perhaps his best line of the night because it critiques McCain's temperament. Obama says that McCain has previously referenced extinction for North Korea and sang songs about bombing Iran, "so I don't know how credible that is."

Washington Post (Robinson)-The Debate: The All-Important Grumpiness Factor: Here’s the politically incorrect way of phrasing one of the central questions about tonight’s presidential debate: Did John McCain come across as too much of a grumpy old man. That might not be a nice question, but it’s an important one. Americans like to vote for the nice guy, not the grumbling prophet of doom. Throughout the 90-minute debate, McCain seemed contemptuous of Obama. He wouldn’t look at him. He tried to belittle him whenever possible -- how many times did he work “Senator Obama just doesn’t understand” into his answers? His body language was closed, defensive, tense. McCain certainly succeeded in proving that he can be aggressive, but the aggression came with a smirk and a sneer.

CNN (Gloria Borger)- "I think you'd have to watch this debate, Anderson and say Obama held his own. He didn't give an inch to McCain on the issues of talking with Iran."

CBS News (Ambinder) "Knowledge Network Undecideds Give Debate To Obama": According to CBS News / Knowledge Networks' poll of undecided voters: 40% of uncommitted voters who watched the debate tonight thought Barack Obama was the winner. 22% thought John McCain won. 38% saw it as a draw. 68% of these voters think Obama would make the right decision about the economy. 41% think McCain would. 49% of these voters think Obama would make the right decisions about Iraq. 55% think McCain would.

Associated Press (Liz Sidoti) A night of contrasts This debate, primarily focused on foreign policy, was supposed to be McCain's sweet spot; Obama held his own. "You were wrong" on Iraq, Obama repeated three times in succession as he pointedly looked his opponent in the eye. "John, you like to pretend the war began in 2007."

The Atlantic (Marc Ambinder) The Rumble In Oxford: First Thoughts - McCain did not filter himself, letting his frustration and contempt for Obama show; he wouldn't let himself look at the challenger.

NY Daily News – "Final Verdict on Eight Years of Failed Economic Policies." After all those months of buildup, it took exactly 106 seconds for the gloves to come off, when Democrat Obama laid the blame for the current economic mess on Republican leadership in Washington. "This is a final verdict on eight years of failed economic policies promoted by George Bush [and] supported by John McCain," Obama said, taking direct aim at his GOP opponent… Obama seemed at ease in the early rounds as McCain struggled to find his feet.

Philly Daily News - Will Bunch blog: McCain "Needs a Knockout" … "Didn't Get It Tonight." I think Obama held his own, which is what he needed to do. He clearly showed he was knowledgeable on foreign affairs, and made kind of silly the argument that Sarah Palin has more experience than he does. McCain was a lot more restrained than I would have expected. …McCain can't afford to win on points. He needs a knockout. He didn't get it tonight.

Denver Post PoliticsWest (John Andrews) Zinger at McCain - Obama landed a good jab with his reference to McCain "threatening extinction to North Korea" and "singing songs about bombing Iran." McCain: "I'm not going to set the White House visitors schedule before I'm president. I don't even have a seal yet." Cute line at the Messiah's expense, but it was wasted in this setting. Obama was impressive, agree with him or not, in his big picture statement near the end when he panned back from Iraq to talk about China, the economy, and the fate of empires in history. McCain for all his courage and honor didn't paint on that kind of global canvas. More points scored into the Dem's column.

Tampa Tribune (Blog) McCain's Final Judgment: "Knowledge And Experience" McCain relied repeatedly on emotional but non-substantive or factually incorrect claims: That Obama "voted against funding the troops," wouldn't declare the Iranian Revolutionary Guard as terrorists, wants to increase taxes on people who make $42,000. But Obama's vaunted eloquence, somewhat surprisingly, failed to overwhelm the nitpicking. The verdict: Probably a tie, which means McCain will probably hold his advantage on the issue. The future debates will be between the vice presidential contenders, and between McCain and Obama on domestic issues.

TNR Blog- Focus Groups, Undecideds For Obama: For what it's worth: The Frank Luntz and Stanley Greenberg focus groups went overwhelmingly for Obama. And a CBS poll of undecideds went for Obama 40%-22%.

john mac...is bush not so disguised!

so u are happy with the way things are? really? then go vote mac insane and scary 'pailin'for more of the same~! but dont cum back complaining when they steal ur loaf?

What a week! I think John McCain succeeded in making himself look like a complete fool with the campaign suspension, but that will probably be overshadowed by the debate reaction.

Saturday morning reaction from editorials in battleground states leans towards Obama, with most agreeing it was a good debate for both candidates. But, since McCain is down in the polls and this was supposed to be his strongest debate (foreign policy/national security), he needed a clear win. That did not happen.

Media Curves found that 61% of Independents believed Obama won the debate, while 38.89% favored McCain as the winner. On each of the eight topics, Obama was a clear winner among Independents, with his highest score coming on the Iran issue - two-thirds of Independents thought he won this question. And, it's hard to argue with these three post-debate polls at RCP - they all have Obama outperforming McCain.

http://time-blog.com/real_clear_politics/2008/09/the_post_debate_polls.html

Battleground States' Editorial reviews:

Mary Beth Schneider in the Indianapolis Star, Hoosiers: Debate moves 4 voters toward a decision:

"Before the debate, Colleen Hoover, a 52-year-old Avon billing clerk for a physician, said she was undecided -- and not very interested, frankly, in watching this debate at all.

After the 90-minute give-and-take, however, Hoover said she was looking forward to the next presidential debate, on Oct. 7, as well as Thursday's vice presidential debate between Sen. Joe Biden, D-Del., and Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin. And, she added, if she had to vote today, she'd back Obama."

.

Kansas City Star (MO) Editorial, Obama has narrow victory in debate:

"Americans looking for a warrior in the White House surely warmed to GOP Senator John McCain’s scrappy debate performance Friday night.

But Democrat Barack Obama turned in the more statesmanlike effort. He was unflappable even under McCain’s often condescending attacks. While McCain went for punches, Obama scored points with sound arguments."

.

Milwaukee Journal Sentinel Editorial, Clear differences:

"The topic was foreign policy, with undercurrents of the financial crisis now consuming the attentions of the U.S. Congress. This main topic, woven as it is with national security, was one in which John McCain was thought to have an edge over Barack Obama. He made every attempt to paint the Illinois senator as naïve. He mostly failed."

.

John Baer, Philadelphia Daily News:

"The much-touted, long-awaited debate that almost didn't happen was a mixed bag, but helped Barack Obama more than John McCain.

I say that because on the issue gripping the nation - the state of the economy - Obama seemed better focused, better armed and more aggressive than McCain."

.

Detroit Free Press Editorial, No knockout, but McCain shows strength in experience:

"Both candidates took some liberties with the facts, particularly in characterizing each other's statements and positions. But neither scored a knockout and the debate did not produce any of the dramatic or telling moments of debates from past campaigns."

.

CBS Channel 8 Las Vegas, Local focus group watches presidential debate:

"The war in Iraq. I agreed more with Obama on," Daniel McGuire is an independent who leans libertarian. "I actually thought McCain was a little bit better on the bailout."

Maryann Brothers went in mostly undecided and came out clearly supporting Obama, "I'm sorry to say, I expected McCain to really come out with a change and I didn't hear that."

One debate down with two to go and so much can change.

"If we were voting today, I'd vote for Obama," said Jay Needleman. This lifelong Republican is supporting Obama, for now. "It can be changed until I walked into the polling place."

Among the group of voters sampled Friday, Senator Obama won the debate."

.

Now for some non-battleground reaction, Peter Canellos at the Boston Globe calls it a Good night for McCain, better one for Obama:

"John McCain last night tried hard to make the first presidential debate a test of Barack Obama's fitness for office. McCain succeeded in his framing of the test - but Obama passed it.

Both candidates came off well. But Obama had more to gain, and he did."

.

Dallas Morning News Editorial, Debate yields White House-worthy performances:

"This debate, with its emphasis on foreign policy, was supposed to be Mr. McCain's time to shine. But Mr. Obama matched him score for score, fending off any sort of game-changer.

Mr. McCain held his own, but that may not be sufficient on his home field."

.

Joe Klein at Time gives it to Obama:

"Toward the very end of tonight's debate—which was quite a good one, I believe—John McCain laid out his rationale in this election in just a few words: Senator Obama, he said, lacks the "knowledge and experience to be President." The presidency will turn on whether the American people agree with McCain on that—but on this night, Obama emerged as a candidate who was at least as knowledgeable, judicious and unflappable as McCain on foreign policy ... and more knowledgeable, and better suited to deal with the economic crisis and domestic problems the country faces."

.

And finally, McClatchy is reporting (as published in the Miami Herald) that McCain misstates some facts in debate on foreign policy:

"McCain made the most notable misstatements and stumbled over the names of the leaders of Iran, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, whose name he couldn't pronounce, and of Pakistan, referring to the latter as "Qadari" instead of Asif Ali Zardari.

McCain incorrectly asserted that former Gen. Pervez Musharraf rescued Pakistan from being a "failed state" when he seized power in a 1999 coup."

This was from last night, but I had to add it. Even Dick Morris can't spin this for McCain! Via Politico:

"Unfortunately, I think Obama won this debate," said Dick Morris on Hannity and Colmes.

This is what I think on the debate performances: On merits, the debate was a draw. But the cable tv PUNDITS and the press rank and file who closely follow the campaign, I think slightly tilt towards McCain, because of the raised expectations for Obama. The EDITORIALS and blogs tilt towards Obama mainly on substance of arguments. While the most crucial constituents, THE VOTERS that matter, overwhelmingly preferred Obama.

A similar assessment from Markos:

I've been pondering those snap polls, both of which showed Obama winning tonight's debate handily. I just never would've predicted that. In fact, I've given up trying to predict how the public will react to certain things. Remember McCain's acceptance speech at the RNC convention? I thought it was dreadful, but polling suggested people loved it.

On the merits, the debate was more of a draw, so that doesn't explain the results. I wonder if there was something else at play. [...]tonight reassured them, given his calm poise and wry humor...

Given the CNN and CBS polling, the public has overwhelmingly crowned Obama the winner of the debate. It seems that Republicans spent so much time trashing Obama's "lack of experience" and "lack of judgment" on national security, that expectations were ridiculously low, and as a result, people were pleasantly (and happily) surprised.

Kind of imagine Sarah Palin, who we've all come to see as a blithering idiot, turning in a performance the caliber of Obama's tonight -- she would all the much stronger for it, no matter if on the merits, she merely equaled Joe Biden. That's what apparently happened tonight.

And those snap polls are apparently driving much of tonight's media narrative. That and McCain's inability to look Obama in the eye.

CW-meister Mark Halperin, on PBS:

"I thought Obama clearly did better. I thought he had a chance to show that he was calm and prepared and capable of standing toe to toe with the more experienced McCain. I thought McCain spoke too much Washington jargon, told too many jokes in shorthand, made too many comments he knew what he meant but I don't think he conveyed it necessarily to the audience overall. I thought Obama was the better communicator an did what he needed to do to reassure people."

Richard Wolffe, MSNBC:

"That was the greatest contrast…the demeanor and the tone of voice that these candidates adopted where McCain was being much more pointed much more aggressive and curiously couldn't look Obama in the eye. Obama's tone much more straight and even keeled but ready to look his opponent in the eye repeatedly. A big contrast."

Eugene Robinson, Washington Post:

"Here’s the politically incorrect way of phrasing one of the central questions about tonight’s presidential debate: Did John McCain come across as too much of a grumpy old man?

That might not be a nice question, but it’s an important one. Americans like to vote for the nice guy, not the grumbling prophet of doom. Throughout the 90-minute debate, McCain seemed contemptuous of Obama. He wouldn’t look at him. He tried to belittle him whenever possible -- how many times did he work “Senator Obama just doesn’t understand” into his answers? His body language was closed, defensive, tense. McCain certainly succeeded in proving that he can be aggressive, but the aggression came with a smirk and a sneer."

Marc Ambinder, The Atlantic:

"McCain did not filter himself, letting his frustration and contempt for Obama show; he wouldn't let himself look at the challenger."

So the verdict is in -- Obama won, and on the night that McCain needed to reverse his opponent's momentum. Perhaps McCain should've cut and run after all.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/9/27/12521/2632/94/612158

Meteor Blades at Daily Kos writes:

"A lot of pundits and commenters and [bloggers] are abuzz over why John McCain didn't look at Barack Obama even once during the debate Friday night.

Rude, say some. Arrogant, say some. Condescending and contemptuous, say others. Passive-aggressive outrage, say still others, a lack of eye contact meant as an insult to Obama - not a planned insult, but because McCain is just that kind of person who can't bear to think of others as equals, who was pissed off that this other person was even allowed on the same stage as him - a king, having to mingle with the commoners.

Probably, to some extent, all true. But none of those counts as the real reason.

The real reason is that every time Barack Obama says "...when I am President," John McCain knows in his heart that this will soon be true."

My take on this is a combination of factors. And one real factor could be that the fear of being distracted from his talking points and blunting his sharpness to respond if he had to take the visual information of watching his opponent answer (from an intimidatingly close distance) in addition to the less complex sound processing in his brain.

PS. I think heath might have some insights into the visual processing aspects.

morning all,

watched about half the debate....both Candidates were at their best....Barak did some tweeking and sounded....forceful and concise instead of hesitant and overly intellectualizing every answer. McCain sounded a bit like the McCain we knew before his Palin pick, older, but still somewhat sane and coherent of thought. Unfortuantely, all the world has experienced the Palin pick, and watched him try to use the financial crisis as a political one-uppance on Barak Obama by telling him one minute they would make a statement together and then abruptly calling all attention to himself by pretending to stop his campaign to run back to Washington and save the day.....the whole fiasco didn't fare well for him so he refused to look at Barak Obama all night long....also, his tranquilizer finally took hold...and he appeared, actually, calm, cannot say cool....he has blown that one out of the water...his cool days are gone....after his Palin pick he really just looks like a "lusty old timer." enjoying his political partner's youthful exuberance.

oh, wanted to mention last nights McCain zinger to Barak while they were talking about the wars....

McCain said that Barak didn't know the difference between a tactic and a strategy.....the old man can still throw a low one...when you get him all rieled up....

tactic.....the science or art of deploying military or naval forces and the maneuvering them in battle.....the maneuvers themselves. ...any maneuvrs for gaining advantage or success.........kind of like McCains failed tactic of pretending to stop his campaign to fly back to washington dc using the financial crisis as his excuse.

strategy...the science or art of planning large scale military movements and operations ....the use of an instance of using this science or art.....the use of a stratagem.....a plan or method for achieving a specific goal....a strategy for getting ahead in the world.............again kind of like McCain's failed tactic of pretending to stop his campaign to fly back to washington dc so he could get a political kudo for appearing...on the ball, instead of being left with the appearance, nation wide, of having fallen off his balls in picking his unqualified Palin as VP(this opinion is a national consensus, not just mine)......

so I don't really remember the context of the questioning as to how Barak used the word or words but he probably wasn't to far in meaning....

look at Donald Rumsfeld....the great Secretary of our Defense during the Iraq Invasion.....he totally threw strategy out the window once his tactical maneuverings were accomplished in the first days of the Iraq Invasion......actually, I think it would have been more correct for John McCain to say that Donald Rumsfeld and our President didn't and do not know the difference between a strategy and a tactic....since, all they seemed to really employ...succesfully, was the tactic of maneuvering our troop movements.....but then they left our troops hanging out to dry in that violent Iraqi air after the initial invasion because of the lack of
a well thought out after the invasion strategy.....so again...all they had to work with is another...tactic..the ever popular Surge...the movement of more troops into Iraq to try and save their sasses....

so I think it is okay that maybe an unmilitary type person get a tactic and a strategy a bit intertwined in conversation.....but when your Secretary of Defense and your President....are in the process of war conception and they do not know the difference between a tactic and a strategy and when and how to apply....is of the upmost importance in terms winning and losing the battles and the war itself....

So, John, since you are so smart when it comes to the tactics and the strategies you might have lent your dictionary to Bush and Rumsfeld....given them a heads up....and helped your Parties's Presdent....instead of keeping all this great military knowledge to yourself....too bad you didn't put your "Country First"....when it was a matter of actual lives and deaths our our Ameican men and women in uniform.

have a great weekend everyone, ruth

9/27 Daily Kos R2K Tracking Poll: Obama 49, McCain 43

Today's Daily Kos Research 2000 tracking poll has Obama up over McCain 49-43. All trackers are data from three days prior to posting, with R2K from today (yesterday) and the others from yesterday (day prior). Trackers will not reflect yesterday's strong Obama debate performance until tomorrow.

Obama McCain MoE +/- RV/LV
Research 2000: 49 (48) 43 (43) 3 LV
Diageo/Hotline: 49 (47) 42 (43) 3.2 RV
Rasmussen: 50 (49) 45 (46) 2 LV
Gallup: 48 (46) 45 (46) 2 RV

Obama had a +7 night on Fr to go with +7 We, +5 Th. Sarah Palin's fav/unfav are now -8.

The focus groups picked up soft, but important data on the debate, and the snap polls show an Obama win. Focus groups pick up the "likeability" piece, which polls do not. Obama won that going away. Here are the overnight polls:

CBS Insta Poll shows Barack Obama won 39% to John McCain's 25% with 36% saying the debate was a draw.

Insider Advantage reports those polled Obama won 42% to McCain's 41% with Undecided 17%

CNN reports voter opinions that Obama "did better" 51%, McCain "did better" 38%

The CNN poll showed men were evenly split, but women gave Obama higher marks 59% to 41% for McCain.

Stan Greenberg/Democracy Corps:

Of our 45 initial undecided voters, a quarter moved to Obama and a quarter to McCain after the debate with the rest remaining undecided. Moreover, by a 38 to 27 percent margin these voters said that Obama won this debate.

A look at the underlying numbers shows that Obama made important gains that could endure through Election Day. These undecided voters had a strong positive reaction to Obama on a personal level. Before the debate, just 40 percent viewed Obama positively, but this skyrocketed to 69 percent after the debate – a remarkable 29-point gain that left him more personally popular than McCain despite this group’s conservative leanings. He also made large strides on being seen as independent, from 44 percent to 65 percent. And in head-to-head matchups against McCain, Obama made significant gains on who "shares your values" and is "on your side."

McCain did not fair as well. His personal standing also improved, but not to nearly the same degree as Obama’s. And while he made impressive gains on being a "maverick," he actually lost slight ground on "offering a different path than Bush," showing that these gains were more about style than substance.

CNN:

Men were nearly evenly split between the two candidates, with 46 percent giving the win to McCain and 43 percent to Obama. But women voters tended to give Obama higher marks, with 59 percent calling him the night's winner, while just 31 percent said McCain won

CBS: THE DEBATE’S EFFECT ON OPINIONS OF THE CANDIDATES
(Among uncommitted voters who watched debate)
Obama McCain
Better 46% 32%
Worse 8 21
No change 46 47

Nearly half of those uncommitted voters who watched the debate said that their image of Obama changed for the better as a result. Just eight percent say their opinion of Obama got worse, and 46 percent reported no change in their opinions.

McCain saw less improvement in his image. Thirty-two percent have improved their image of McCain as a result of the debate, but 21 percent said their views of him are now worse than before.

Why did voters' image of Obama improve? Many volunteered that they were impressed by his poise and knowledge about the issues, that he was more knowledgeable about the issues than they thought previously. When it came to McCain, those same voters said he "didn’t control himself well under pressure," that he was "angry and bad-tempered," and that he "talked too much about the past."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wup4nsIWe8A

Remember a few things about the above:

1) This was supposed to be McCain's strong debate. A tie goes to Obama (and it wasn't a tie).

2) Obama leads in the polls. A tie goes to Obama (and it wasn't a tie).

3) McCain's visuals and optics were awful. He came across as belligerent and dismissive.

4) The undecided vote is not the general population. The demeanor of the candidates matters as much or more than substance.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/9/27/71646/2857/993/612252

Your Abbreviated Pundit Round-up [Daily Kos]

Interesting analysis all around, but consensus about this being an excellent debate.

NY Times editorial:

"It was disturbing to see that Mr. McCain seems to have learned nothing from the disastrous war in Iraq. He talked about recent progress there, which is indisputable, and his support for the troop surge that has brought down violence. But Mr. McCain still was talking about winning, rather than how he was going to plan a necessary and responsible exit. And he steadfastly refused to acknowledge that the decision to invade Iraq was an enormous mistake.

Mr. Obama offered no details on how he plans to get out of Iraq, but he offered an important truth when he said that the United States should never have invaded and can never win in Afghanistan as long as it is tied down in Iraq.

We didn’t hear nearly as much detail as we would have liked. But the debate was a move toward a serious discussion of this country’s many problems. Americans need to hear more of that, and less of the tactical sparring, before going to the polls."
________

David Yepsen: McCain wins.

________

Joe Klein: Obama wins.

________

Roger Simon: Mcain is the best evah.

________

Andrew Ward:

"Analysis: McCain fails to land knock-out blow

John McCain delivered the punchiest lines and finished the debate on the offensive. Barack Obama was polished and, yes, presidential throughout and absorbed his opponent’s jabs without serious damage.

The result was a score draw, which, for Mr Obama, was as good as a win."

___________

Nate Silver:

"Why Voters Thought Obama Won

TPM has the internals of the CNN poll of debate-watchers, which had Obama winning overall by a margin of 51-38. The poll suggests that Obama is opening up a gap on connectedness, while closing a gap on readiness.

Specifically, by a 62-32 margin, voters thought that Obama was "more in touch with the needs and problems of people like you". This is a gap that has no doubt grown because of the financial crisis of recent days. But it also grew because Obama was actually speaking to middle class voters. Per the transcript, McCain never once mentioned the phrase "middle class" (Obama did so three times). And Obama’s eye contact was directly with the camera, i.e. the voters at home. McCain seemed to be speaking literally to the people in the room in Mississippi, but figuratively to the punditry. It is no surprise that a small majority of pundits seemed to have thought that McCain won, even when the polls indicated otherwise; the pundits were his target audience."

__________

George Harris:

"I suspect that women voters especially would be turned off by McCain's sarcastic tone because women do tend to be the conciliators in our society and saw Obama display those conciliatory qualities very well in the debate. Obama looked at McCain, and McCain wouldn't return the eye contact but rather glared or displayed a tight and angry expression.

I also suspect (but don't have the data to support) that older voters were also turned off by Senator McNasty. I believe older voters will also be reassured that, though McCain has been around longer, Obama has a good grasp of foreign affairs and can learn quickly. He impressed as a statesmen, in marked contrast to McCain's warrior demeanor.

McCain referred to Obama as naive or as not understanding on many issues when the listener probably saw a mere difference of opinion. McCain's condescenion felt annoying; to the listener who might agree or disagree with Obama, Obama nevertheless was making good points, not naive ones."

_________

David Ignatius:

"Both styles were adequate; neither was entirely compelling. If you were adding up debating points, you’d give the contest to Obama. If you were counting only the emotional highs, you’d give it to McCain. The debate reinforced each man’s strengths and weaknesses. Obama had the most to lose, and he didn’t, so in that sense, by not losing he probably came out ahead.

What was troubling was that neither man rose to the challenge of the catastrophe that has seized the financial markets. On this issue, the two were bland, non-committal, uninspiring."

__________

Added:

Jonathan Alter on MSNBC: The biggest loser? Sarah Palin. The debates set a standard she cannot live up to.

Hillary Clinton's statement on the debate:

"Tonight Barack Obama displayed beyond a doubt that he understands both the gravity of the financial crisis facing America, and the challenges we face in Iraq and around the world. Senator McCain offered only more of the same failed policies of the Bush Administration. America deserves better.

"I stood next to Barack Obama in 22 debates and tonight epitomized why millions are joining me in standing with him and working hard to ensure he is the next President of the United States."

Frank Luntz on Fox News reporting on a focus group that went overwhelmingly for Obama.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wup4nsIWe8A

"I suspect that women voters especially would be turned off by McCain's sarcastic tone because women do tend to be the conciliators in our society and saw Obama display those conciliatory qualities very well in the debate. Obama looked at McCain, and McCain wouldn't return the eye contact but rather glared or displayed a tight and angry expression."

-– George Harris, Kansas City Star Readers Advisory Panel 2008

The CNN poll showed men were evenly split, but women gave Obama higher marks 59% to 41% for McCain.

P.S. It had been my observation in the past: Obama has a very healthy proportion of feminine aspect to his personality.

Here's my take on the debate:

Both men are unseasoned as Chief Executive. Anyone who hasn't been prez for a term has no clue what's in store for him or her. Both men are smart and powerful personalities. Both men have the ability to work across party lines, and the ability and will to lead. To distinguish between them, I compare their positions and their characters. I agree with Obama's positions. I knew that before the debate. What this debate was about, for me, was character.

Stress can make the brightest leader run and hide. I think Obama can handle stress a whole lot better than McCain can. McCain's stress test took place decades ago, and he passed it with flying colors. But it also damaged his ability to respond in a healthy way to stress thereafter. Obama is our best chance for good leadership of this country.

McCain's core cynicism and ruthlessness were apparent immediately, when he tried to appear to be reaching across the aisle and showing his supposed humanity by mentioning Ted Kennedy's health in his opening comment. If he really cared about Kennedy as a person -- in a non-political, compassionate way -- he'd have asked Jim Lehrer to say something about the Senator -- he wouldn't have tried to make compassion and bipartisanship his own by mentioning Kennedy's condition. Kennedy was already out of the hospital and back home at that moment, by the way, which shows he's not such a dear friend and his campaign is somewhat out of touch, or he'd have known that, he wouldn't have said Kennedy was still in the hospital.

McCain has some sincerity going, still. But it's at war with his immense desire to win. McCain is at war with himself.

Now Obama has something other than a desire to win: he has a will to win. That's a really big difference.

Desire is emotional, it can get out of control, it's fuzzy, it's mutable. Will is about vision, controlled energy, focus and self-control. It's will that bridges the chasms of danger in a crisis. It's what keeps you from going crazy, literally, when stress seems unbearable.

McCain's war with himself is the reason I think he couldn't look at Obama. If he'd engaged Obama eye-to-eye, the sincere aspect of his character would have kicked in, and he'd have knocked down his own ego, and would have ended up being warmer, more friendly, towards Obama, which would have been conceding power of presence and focus to Obama right in front of millions of viewers, in real time. That would have spelled his demise as a possible winner.

Tiger, yes, this has to do with vision processing. We have two vision systems. The one that evolved later is also the one that does face recognition, that engenders a feeling of being safe and relaxed. For McCain to stay on target as the opponent of Obama, he could not risk feeling safe and relaxed in his presence - the only solution he had, as an emotional man, was to avoid looking Obama in the eyes.

The reason McCain's emotionality is such a powerful aspect of his character is two-fold: he's a Pisces, and he still suffers from PTSD, from his years as a military man, particularly as a result of having been wounded, captured, held, tortured and deprived of comfort for a long time. As a result, he cannot escape his volatile emotions now.

The reality of these characters is, I believe, this: Obama is stronger, brighter, more generous, more flexible, better-focused and more centered than McCain. These qualities, along with a real humbleness of ego that allows him to reach out to -- and pay attention to -- advisors, will allow Obama to lead this country with amazing strength, insight, honesty, honor and grace. I think the sincere part of McCain knows that, and he simply can't look the man in the eye on a public stage without giving that away to the audience, and he's sincere enough to know that, too. Yet the desire-to-win side of McCain is extremely fierce, so much so that McCain was willing to risk looking arrogant by avoiding eye contact. McCain's war within himself is also expressed by the whining things he does -- classic unconscious dragging-the-broken-wing tactics. For me, that spells danger. Anyone who's so emotionally needy, regarding winning, is also too emotional to handle winning properly if it's achieved. We need the winner of this race to handle his job properly. That war in McCain is the biggest signal he gives me that he's not right for prez. He doesn't know himself, and he can't handle himself. How then could he handle all the rest of us?

* * *

By the way, did you catch Obama's bit about his father trying to come to the US for his higher education, right at the end? In those few lines, Obama said about 27 different things and made some extremely solid points about this country, where it needs to go, about his own family history and character, and about his unwillingness to allow a Republican snow job to happen a third time in succession.

If Obama is elected, I believe his leadership will be on a par with the only two past presidents I revere: Lincoln and FDR.

Oh, thanks for #85, John -- you reminded me that one of the very positive visual aspects of Obama's candidacy is his wife's presence on the stage, after a speech or debate. Obama's lean height, narrow face and small eyes can make him intimidating, physically, to many. Seeing beside him a wife who's taller than he is in heels, restores him to normal size, and thus takes away any sense of strangeness we might feel about his cool, somewhat Dr. Spock-like, physical presence. Obama's wife is also less diffident in social and politcal situations than he is. Sometimes she's the first to start and handshake or hug, and she does it with warm vigor that also rebalances Obama's apparent coolness.

I actually think Obama's cool is just the outward manifestation of his control of a w