Watching the debate tonight, I was shaking my head wondering why the last chance people have to hear from the presidential candidates was consumed by Ayers and ACORN and nasty attack ads against John McCain. Barack Obama seemed quite willing to engage in this tit for tat bullshit, and content to extend it as long as McCain would argue with him. Jeebus, I thought, people are going to turn this crap off. Why is Obama indulging in this?

Well, duh. Because Obama wanted McCain to talk about Ayers and ACORN -- he dared him to, in fact. McCain hurt himself badly by going negative about these ephemera, and tonight wasted precious time he needed to turn his floundering campaign around. Tonight was McCain's last chance to make a difference in this race. Instead he happily whined about being the victim of negative campaigning, and argued about stupid issues no one cares about. When he went into issues territory, McCain started stumbling over words and made little sense. Obama just laughed at him. Worst of all, McCain got so angry talking about this BS that he totally forgot to look in the camera, at the voters, and didn't for the rest of the night.

On the issues, Obama clearly was more articulate and thoughtful, and the CNN idiot lines pegged at the top again and again: on reducing abortions, on education, on energy. McCain appeared to outpoint him early in the debate on the tax issue, mainly among men. This showed, I think, that the Republican "tax cuts for everyone!" snake oil still has some juice in it, but it's clearly not enough.

Barack Obama would have been happy to play for a draw tonight. He's ahead by four touchdowns in the fourth quarter, and didn't worry about McCain outpointing him by a field goal. He's happy for McCain to waste his last chance talking about Ayers. He smiled at McCain acting once again as the angry old man. In the meta-debate, Obama kicked ass. McCain booted away his last chance, and didn't even appear to realize it. Obama, again, looked like the president, and McCain was the cranky old geezer on the porch in his bathrobe.

CBS' Instapoll says Obama won 53% - 22%. People have made up their minds, it seems, and don't want to listen to McCain anymore.

JM was playing defense...all night

he had no choice...

he looked snarley...as always...doesn't go over well...

he looks real old even with all that makeup...

the game is over...for him...the country cannot afford four more yrs of the same disasterous republican policies...

finally...John McCain is a Republican!

I think Hillary is going to be a Barack Obama champion. She was in attendance tonight for the debate in NY, and has been a prominent guest on the cable news post-debate shows. Here's what she had to say on Fox News:

"We have had an experiment within the last 16 years. Whose policies have resulted in more wealth for everybody to be able to srpead around? The Democratic policies. Once again, we're going to have a Democratic president when Barack gets elected who will get back to practical pragmatic approaches to helping grow the economy, create more jobs and giving everybody a chance to have more shared prosperity. [...]

From my perspective I thought it was very clear that Barack Obama has sealed the deal with the American voter and the American voter has decided to move on from the failed policies that the Republicans foisted on the country the last 8 years and I don't think that Senator McCain really broke through what has been a growing conclusion, especially during these last weeks of economic crisis, that Barack Obama provides steady intelligent leadership, the kind that we're going to need starting next January."

It's clear that, both between her ramped up appearances on the stump on behalf of the Obama/Biden ticket and on cable news tonight that during these next three weeks Hillary Clinton is going to be a prominent voice in support of Barack Obama.

In Canada, Harper lost his majority late in the campaign when he mentioned that art and culture are waste of taxpayer’s money. He said this in the francophone province of Quebec. What an insensitive creature!

In the US, Obama wants to increase support for math and science. He mentioned this again tonight. Fighting ignorance is a very noble thing!

“We should be teaching our children the scientific method and the reasons for a Bill of Rights. With it comes a certain decency, humility and community spirit”.
CS

Advantage Obama, and very close to match ball!

Anyone know what made the T-shirts, that McCain referred to, so offensive to him?

Snap polls render pundits obsolete...

The polls:

CBS undecideds: Obama 53, McCain 22

:::::

CNN poll of tv viewers: Obama 58, McCain 31.

Breaking down the CNN poll:

"Who did the best job in the debate?"

Independents

McCain (R) 31
Obama (D) 57

Republicans

McCain (R) 68
Obama (D) 18

Democrats

McCain (R) 5
Obama (D) 88

Look how poorly McCain did with Republicans, compared to Democrats and Obama. And of course, Independents LOVED Obama.

CNN Poll Favorable/Unfavorable

Obama, before debate: 63/35
Obama, after debate: 66/33

McCain, before debate: 51/45
McCain, after debate: 49/49

McCain LOST popularity.

::::::

MediaCurves independents: Obama 60, McCain 30.

::::::

SurveyUSA California debate-watchers: Obama 56, McCain 28. Among California independents: Obama 55, McCain 29.

::::::::::::::

AND Fox News's focus group goes Obama!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrnmYe-xJio

"Frank Luntz: Early in the debate these people thought McCain was doing better, by the end of the debate Obama seemed to finish better. Brit.

Brit Hume: Question -- you said that none of the people came in there for Obama, may I take it that that's because they were undecided or because they were for McCain?

Luntz: No, they were undecided, we got 23 undecided voters. Brit, I chewed them out to make sure they were undecided. Did anyone switch your position tonight? We have one person... four people. Who did you go to?

Undecided voter #1: I lean more toward Obama.
Undecided voter #2: Obama.
Undecided voter #3: Obama.
Undecided voter #4: Obama.

Luntz: This is a good night for Barack Obama."

I missed the first 30 minutes, but will catch it on you-tube tomorrow am, as I was selling my furniture. But I was very relieved to see that Obama was coming back full circle to what made him popular in the first place - honesty and caring about the American people - even tho he made mistakes, as McCain has, while they both learned about what it is like to run for President of the USA, as it can be a nasty little fight if one lets it be so. I saw the intelligent man with the wise heart that I voted for this week.

Go Obama!

Yeah, I was wondering about the T-shirts too...???

Oh and this is what the guy said who bought my bedroom furniture tonight ... a young man -

"Obama is going to get assinated if elected and McCain is going to die of old age, so that leaves the two VPs and the ???(AS female) clearly cannot run our country and I know nothing about the ??? (the other VP candidate).

Psy and Char, those T-shirts he was referring to were anti-Palin protest T-shirts at her rallies... Not at Obama/Biden rallies. Those were put on by a some women, and the McCain camp cried sexism. but the thing is that these protesters were not Democarts. They were libertarians who are a part of the Republican coalition, but are now pissed off by Palin. And this false outrage has been long debunked. I will get you the links, after I find them.

All I could say is that the other VP candidate has been in the senate for a long time, but is an old fogey as McCain - seem to the be same type of oldness, i.e., used and washed up.

freshness is newness - it's youth regardless of age

spirit is innocent

The McCain campaign meme: Obama supporters are mean too! But we can't show you proof!

Really, there is no equivalence here.

Re. 10

It has been reported widely about the "Vile Anti-Palin Tee-Shirts"[pics and Video] and the McCain camp jumped to cry that Obama supporters are vulgar...etc (but, as Tipper mentioned it has no 'equivalence' with the hate against Obama, "kill him", "off with his head", "terrorist" at Palin's rallies.)

Politico's Ben Smith digs deeper..to find the truth:

The ridiculously industrious Jake Tapper(Politicla Punch at ABC News) asks who the people are who showed up outside a Palin event in Philadelphia with t-shirts whose neon green lettering carried a particularly taboo slur[C***] about Palin.

I mentioned the shirts in passing earlier, and one of their creators, emailing under the name Rhiannon Volpe, objected to my suggestion that she was a Democrat:

"I personally am a registered Libertarian, supporting Obama this year. Palin is the last woman I want to hold a political office right now. Her lack of common sense, cruel treatment to animals, and just plain ignorance to what we (Americans, and even women) really care about is absolutely frustrating. The point of wearing the shirt to me is just a bold way of saying that she certainly is not liked or one of "us." To play the gender card is irrelevant, because I am a woman who wears the tshirt anyway."

She added that McCain had, allegedly, used the word himself, "so is it really that offensive?" And she said none of the people pictured were Democrats.

She's also selling the shirts online, part of a line of ironical Philly hipster gear.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1008/Jake_Tappers_questions_answered.html?showall

Ben Smith at the Conservative 'Politico' sums it up in a balanced way (there is no equivalence-- between the ugliness and the extent--at all):

"A reader sends in a picture, taken outside Palin's Philadelphia fundraiser yesterday, of four protesters whose (ironically intended, no-doubt) black and neon green T-shirts use the C-word in reference to Palin.

A couple other anecdotes from the last couple of days: Vandals spray-painted the words "Republican means slavery" on South Carolina county GOP headquarters Friday. Outside Portland, Ore., two men were arrested for throwing Pacifico beer bottles stuffed with gasoline-soaked rags onto the lawn of a local McCain supporter, incinerating his large McCain sign.

Now, this stuff always happens. And there's been quite nasty, often overtly racist, anti-Obama vandalism going on all cycle, occasionally noted here, but never publicized by the campaign. What's more, the way in which the anti-Obama sentiment last week became the main public message of the McCain campaign, then overtook his rallies, is unique: Democrats at Obama rallies tend to be focused on him, not on despising McCain.

Still, in a big country, it's always fairly easy that to make the anecdotal case that the other party is composed of dangerous maniacs, and worth being wary of generalizing from anecdotes."

This is John McCain rolling his eyes when Obama brings up Columbian union leaders being killed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEZmIGtBs80

I watched the final debate tonight at the LAFitnessCenter and it was the first time that I spent a full half hour on the cycles as I was watching Bob Shiefer, (white hair), Barack Obama (black hair), and John McCain (white hair). It struck me funny that a 47 year old man was debating a 73 year old man while I cannot say how old Bob Shieffer is, but he is probably as old as McCain.

Then I looked at everyone in the fitness center who all looked younger than Barack Obama and nary a one of them really cared about the debate or displayed any interest in it either.

Go figure! Most people have made up their minds anyway.

Then I left the cycles and made my way to the stair steppers where I could see but not read the text of the debate. Later, after finishing my own goals for the evening, using hot tub and swimming pool as therapy for my legs, I returned to hear McCain and Obama discuss the abortion problem that plagues everyone. Again McCain emphasized adoption over abortion. He and Cindy have adopted children. McCain seems to forget what it is like to be poor, unable to probably feed one's self, much less children, so that he does not always appear very empathetic with anyone who is not as wealthy and rich as he and his wife are. I mean, really, John, if you want to be taken seriously in this race, you should at least know how many condos or houses you do own.

All in all, this race for the White House still reminds me of Robert Redford's movie, The Candidate, made in 1972. or thereabouts...we know how that ended. I suspect that this will end the same way! Guy with white hair loses!

Early Debate Reviews: "Obama is ON", "McCain is flat-out lying"

ABC News:

"Sen. Obama also gets specific right away -- looking right to the camera with his bailout package for the middle class. And if you're looking for the first candidate to draw a distinction tonight, it's Obama, not McCain."

Washington Post (Chris Cillizza):

"Obama is ON message. A question about campaign finance and nasty campaigning becomes an economic answer."

TIME:

'"Jobs." And the dial lines go WHANGO! Obama should work "jobs" into every answer, including any about Bill Ayers.'

CNN (Bill Schneider):

"Obama's answers during this first line of questioning appear crisp and clear, while McCain's sound disconnected and rambling."

ABC News:

"…McCain is still saying he'd balance the budget within four years? This is silliness, and I think McCain knows it. I look forward to his campaign explaining how, exactly, he'll do this while extending the Bush tax cuts and funding bailouts."

Washington Post Fact Check (Michael Dobbs):

"Joe the Plumber - John McCain raised the story of "Joe the Plumber" who ran into Barack Obama at a political rally in Toledo, Ohio, earlier this week. He depicted the plumber as an average American who will end up paying more taxes under the Obama plan. In fact, the plumber told Obama that he had plans to buy a company that would make more than $250,000 a year. Obama has conceded that his proposal to phase out the Bush tax cuts for high-income groups will lead to higher taxes for people making more than $250,000 a year. Obama told the plumber that he would face an increase in his marginal tax rate from 36 to 39 per cent, but Americans earning less than $250,000 a year would stand to gain under his proposal."

NBC News (Mark Murray):

"McCain was wrong, however, when he said that 100% of his ads weren't negative. According to a recent study by the University of Wisconsin Advertising Project, 100% of McCain's ads have been negative."

Washington Post Fact Check (Michael Dobbs):

"McCain exaggerated the closeness of the relationship between Obama and former Weather Underground founder Bill Ayers in claiming that his rival had "launched his political career" in Ayers' living room. It is true that Obama attended a coffee meeting at Ayers' home after he announced his intention to run for the state senate in September 2005. But according to Lynn Sweet of the Chicago Sun-Times, who has tracked Obama's political career closely, the Ayers' event was only one of a series of coffees in the Hyde Park community where he lived. The kickoff for Obama's Senate run came at a meeting in the Hyde Park Ramada Inn on Sept. 19, 1995."

TIME:

"McCain is flat-out lying about Obama's health care plan. It is not government-run health care, and looks nothing like the Canadian system."

Washington Post Fact Check (Glenn Kessler):

"John McCain made two assertions on corporate taxes, one that small businesses pay 50 percent of the taxes and the other that U.S. corporations are among the highest taxed in the world. Both are wrong."

Fact Check: Medicare/Medicaid, Health Care, Free Trade, Abortion, Negative Attacks, College Affordability, Justice Breyer and Tax Cuts for Small Businesses

__________________________________________________
Fact Check: Cutting Medicare/Medicaid by $1.3 Trillion

Tonight, John McCain said: “The average cost of a health care insurance plan in America today is $5800. I'm going to give them $5,000 to take with them wherever they want to go, and this will give them affordability, this will give them availability, this will give them a chance to choose their own futures, not have Senator Obama and government decide that for them.”

THE FACTS: McCain wants to pay for his health care plan by cutting Medicaid and Medicare by at least $1.3 trillion.

__________________________________________________

Fact Check: Obama's Health Care Plan is Not Government-Run

Tonight, Sen. McCain said: "Senator Obama wants government to do the job. I want, Joe, you to do the job. I want to leave money in your pocket. I want you to be able to choose a health care for you and your family."

THE FACTS: McCain’s claims about Obama’s health care plan have been called “misleading.” Obama’s health care plan is not government-run and would maintain the existing private system.
__________________________________________________

The Facts: Obama's Position on the Colombia Free Trade Agreement

Tonight, Sen. Obama said: "Actually, I understand it pretty well, the history in Colombia right now is that labor leaders have been targeted for assassination on a fairly consistent basis, and there have not been prosecutions, and what I have said because the free trade -- the trade agreement itself does have labor and environmental protections, but we have to stand for human rights, and we have to make sure that violence isn't being perpetrated against workers who are just trying to organize for their rights."

THE FACTS: Obama opposed the Colombia Free Trade Agreement because of violence in Colombia which creates an uneven playing field for American workers, while McCain has supported it despite violence.
__________________________________________________

Fact Check: McCain's False Attacks on Failed Abortion Legislation

Tonight, Senator McCain said: “Senator Obama … as a member of the Illinois state Senate voted in the Judiciary Committee against a law that would provide immediate medical attention to a child born of a failed abortion.”

THE FACTS: Obama opposed born alive legislation because it was already law and could have compromised abortion rights.
__________________________________________________

Fact Check: McCain on Repudiating Attacks

Tonight, John McCain said: “Anytime there has been an out of bounds remark made by a Republican, no matter where they are, I have repudiated them.”

THE FACTS: McCain said he couldn't -- and didn't -- repudiate extreme attacks.
__________________________________________________

Fact Check: Obama Supports Restrictions on Late Term Abortion Provided There is an Exception for Women's Health

Tonight, Sen. Obama said: "With respect to partial birth abortion, I am completely supportive of a ban on late-term abortions, partial birth or otherwise, as long as there is an exception for the mother's health and life, and this did not contain that exception. [...] there surely is some common ground when both those who believe in choice and those who are opposed to abortion can come together and say, we should try to prevent unintended pregnancies by providing appropriate education to our youth."

THE FACTS: Obama has repeatedly stated his support for restricting late term abortions as long as there is an exception for a woman’s health and has a plan to reduce unintended pregnancies. McCain would appoint Right-Wing judges who would end the right to choose.
__________________________________________________

Fact Check on Making College Affordable:

Tonight, John McCain said: “As far as college education is concerned, we need to make the student loans available, we need to give them a repayment schedule that they can meet, we need to have full student loan program for in-state tuition, and we certainly need to adjust the student loan eligibility to inflation.”

FACT: McCain has repeatedly opposed efforts to help make college more affordable and his discretionary spending freeze would cut $4.4 billion from Federal Pell grants and he has no plan to help the middle class with college costs
__________________________________________________

Fact Check on Justice Breyer:

McCain said: "I voted for Justice Breyer and Justice Ginsburg not because I agreed with their ideology, but because I thought they were qualified and the elections have consequences when presidents are nominated. [...] Senator Obama voted against Justice Breyer and Justice Roberts on the grounds that they didn't meet his ideological standards." [Presidential Debate, 10/15/08]

FACT: Obama was not in the Senate when Justice Breyer was confirmed
__________________________________________________

Fact Check on Small Business Tax Cuts:

Who has tax cuts targeted at small businesses?

Senator Obama:

*A New American Jobs Tax Credit of $3,000 for every new job that companies create in the United States in 2009 and 2010

*A Small Business Health Tax Credit on up to 50% of employee premiums paid by employers

*Eliminate Capital Gains Taxes on Investments in Small and Start up Businesses

*A Making Work Pay Tax Cut for 95% of Working Americans, Millions of Whom Are Small Business Owners

*A new lending facility to address the credit crisis for small businesses

Senator McCain:

Nothing
_________________________________________________

References:

therecord.barackobama.com

JohnMcCainRecord.com

Cheers and Jeers: Thursday
by Bill in Portland Maine

From the GREAT STATE OF MAINE...

THEY SAID

They said his name's too foreign and exotic. It isn't.
They said he's too young. He isn't.
They said he's a scary Muslim terrorist. He isn't.
They said he was sworn in on the Koran. He wasn't.
They said he's not a Christian. He is.
They said he's too distant and aloof. He isn’t.
They said his birth certificate's fake. It isn’t.
They said he's nothing but a shallow celebrity. He isn't.
They said his "present" votes in the Illinois Senate prove he was a waffler. They don't.
They said he didn't sponsor any meaningful legislation in the U.S. Senate. He did.
They said his wife's a liability to the campaign. She isn't.
They said Reverend Wright would destroy his campaign. He didn’t.
They said Tony Rezko would destroy his campaign. He didn't.
They said PUMA would destroy his campaign. It didn't.
They said not wearing a flag pin 24/7 would destroy his campaign. It didn’t.
They said he couldn’t "close the deal" and win the Democratic nomination. He did.
They said that if he won the nomination the Democratic convention would be a repeat of the violent 1968 convention. It wasn't.
They said he'd never get angry Clinton voters to enthusiastically support him. He did.
They said his overseas trip would prove he was inexperienced and un-presidential. It didn't.
They said he'd never sink that 3-pointer. He did.
They said he should write off "red" states like Indiana, West Virginia, North Dakota and North Carolina because they'd swung irretrievably for McCain. They hadn't.
They said he couldn't win over rural white voters. He did.
They said he was losing Latino and Jewish voters. He wasn't.
They said he didn’t have specific plans for the economy, health care, Iraq and terrorism. He does.
They said funding his campaign through mostly small-dollar donors was a mistake. It wasn't.
They said his GOP opponent would run an honorable campaign. He didn't.
They said he wasn't being truthful about his past. He was.
They said the nomination of Sarah Palin would knock his campaign off its stride. It didn't.
They said he wouldn't win the first debate because it was on foreign policy. He did.
They said he wouldn't win the second debate because it was a town hall format. He did.
They said he wouldn't win the third debate because McCain was going on the attack. He did.
They said he conspired with ACORN to commit massive voter fraud. He didn't.
They said his economic plan will raise taxes on the poor and middle class. It won't.
They said he doesn't understand the concerns of average Americans. He does.
They said all the negative campaign ads being thrown at him would work. They didn’t.
They said he didn’t have the guts to fight back against the smears. He did.
They said the election results would be tight as a tick.

To be continued...

Cheers and Jeers starts in There's Moreville... [Swoosh!!] RIGHTNOW! [Gong!!]

The rest of Bill's "Cheers and Jeers" column at dkos:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/10/16/85544/982/180/631379

Joe the Plumber is a REGISTERED REPUBLICAN

by icebergslim
Daily Kos

Look the man has been all over television this morning on the McCain talking points.

He is going line by line from taxes, schools and social security.

He is not, repeat, not an undecided voter.

After watching his interview on MSNBC, the man is a plant or faking to be undecided while spewing McCain talking points.

Ben Smith, Politico:

"Joe Wurzelbacher doesn't immediately turn up in the Ohio voter registration database, leading to some speculation last night that he's not registered to vote.

But the Toledo Blade reports that he appears to be a registered Republican, and a primary voter at that:

Linda Howe, executive director of the Lucas County Board of Elections, said a Samuel Joseph Worzelbacher, whose address and age match Joe the Plumber’s, registered in Lucas County on Sept. 10, 1992. He voted in his first primary on March 4, 2008, registering as a Republican.

Ms. Howe said that the name may be misspelled in the database.

(This is, incidentally, the reason people worry about purging the voter rolls. They're such a mess to begin with.)"

Look, I don't know if he is totally in the tank for McCain, but he is on the talking point mode, backing McCain policies and snidely bashing Obama. The push should be, "Joe the Plumber is a fraud, he is a registered republican carrying the water." Jed has up part of the video, the whole video below.

[...]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/10/16/111449/53/191/632401

Ref. 22

Jed L: Joe The Plumber Admits He Wasn't Undecided After All

We don't know much about Joe The Plumber, but we do know this: he made up his mind who he was voting for before last night's debate.

Speaking with Katie Couric, "Joe" said that he "wasn't swayed" by the debate last night, yet pretty much knew who he was going to vote for. So if (a) he wasn't swayed by the debate and (b) knows who he is going to vote for, then (c) he had already made up his mind before the debate.

Here's video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVTfxoJfMpo

Unfortunately, the national media has had a field day with Joe, almost universally reporting that he is an uncommitted voter, even though he doesn't make the same claim. He certainly is a nice little story for them, but it's a story they might want to ask some questions about, especially now that they've invited a relative unknown to appear on the morning shows.

For starters, according to Ben Smith, he's not registered to vote. It's hard to believe that this could be the case; it seems likely that there is some sort of clerical error. For example, his name could be mispelled as Worzelbacher instead of Wurzelbacher in the Lucas County file. (Update: Ben Smith notes that appears to be exactly what happened. 'Joe' appears to be a registered Republican under the name of Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher. Also, earlier today at a press conference, Wurzelbacher said he originally registered with the Natural Law Party.)

It also seems odd that he just happens to be buying a business that would earn exactly the amount of money that would qualify it to be a McCain campaign talking point -- $250,000. Even more intriguing, McCain-land said they had never spoken with Joe before, but also made the following statement to Ben Smith:

"McCain aides say there was no heads-up for Joe the Plumber, who's headed out to the morning shows tomorrow.

"Joe didn't know" that he'd be at the center of the debate," said Matt McDonald.

"We tried to call him during the debate, but his phone was busy," he said. "We're not going to put him through media training.""

So the McCain campaign says they never contacted Joe the Plumber...but they also had his phone number. Now it's very possible someone in the media gave them his phone number, but if you can find any listing for Joe Wurzelbacher in Holland, Ohio, you're more industrious than I am.

The last thing that struck me as odd was that when talking with Katie Couric, Joe was totally on message for McCain (except the part where he said that he had already made up his mind on who he was voting for).

Bottom-line: it's not entirely clear what the real story of Joe The Plumber is. But it is entirely clear that he's not just some undecided voter. He supports McCain, and the McCain campaign sure seems to support him.

This wouldn't be a story worth mentioning if the media wasn't so excited to put him on all the morning shows, but since they are, they have a responsibility to get the story right. So far, there's little indication that they will.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/10/16/95127/280/275/632293

Ben Smith, Politico reports on Joe the Plumber:

No vetting for Joe

"Matt McDonald told me yesterday that they hadn't created Joe in a test tube and weren't planning to media train him, and while he's navigated the media swarm pretty ably, the lack of polish -- and vetting -- also shows.

To wit: His opposition to taxes appears to extend to not paying them.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonathanmartin/1008/Joe_the_Plumber_No_new_taxes__and_no_old_oneseither.html?showall

And his opposition to regulation appears to extend to licensing requirements.

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081016/NEWS09/810160418

Still: Driving the day!"

***

Sam Stein, HuffPo reports:

Joe The Plumber: Not A Tax Expert

"Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher, a.k.a. "Joe the Plumber," is the topic of the day on the campaign trail, in part because he held an impromptu press conference Thursday morning in front of his house to discuss tax policy, his disdain for Social Security, and his critiques of Barack Obama.

Already, however, there is some dispute as to whether or not Wurzelbacher was being accurate with his critique of Obama. His business, as ABC reports, would almost certainly get a tax cut under Obama's plan, given that he does not expect to make anywhere close to $250,000 in profits.

Moreover, for someone worried about his taxes, Wurzelbacher doesn't -- it appears - always pay them. A filing with the Lucas County Court of Common Pleas shows that he has had state tax liens filed against him, meaning he was either delinquent or didn't fully cover taxes that he owed."

[...]

"...it's worth noting that the United Association of Plumbers and Pipefitters has endorsed the Illinois Democrat, in part because the union thinks he has the best economic agenda for its members.

"Obama will help us keep existing jobs and work to develop new, higher paying jobs here in America, reform our health care system, fix our ailing schools and make sure that the pensions of our retirees are safe," the union said."

joe six-pack

joe the plumber

joe(nie) come lately

joe(cain) soon to go into retirement for good...

hello iraq war, joe's baby...

hello Wall St...

the chickens are coming home...looking for daddy...and he ain't from chicago....

Joe the Plumber's comment about Obama "tap dancing as good as Sammy Davis Jr." was revealing (and of course his McCain bias was clear from his talking points.)

Joe the Plumber: "And unfortunately I asked the question but I still got a tap dance. Do you - almost as good as Sammy Davis Jr"

*************

"Not Fred Astaire?? The most famous American Dancer in history?? But Sammy Davis Jr., the only African American member of the Rat Pack??

This guy's not quite right anyways, voter or not.

Sounds like his mind was made up when his precious, once in a lifetime football tossing got interrupted by having the everyday occurrence of a candidate to be the next President of the United States was in his neighborhood."-- justiceleague

***

"To bring up Sammy Davis in his comparison means one thing, the guy is a big time racist. It is racist code.

I grew up with racism. I am probably still racist, though I work hard to not do it at least consciously. I know racist code.

I can smell a racist a mile away, this guy is a full bloiwn racist.

I am an ex pat lifelong Republican voting for Obama, dual nat member of New Labour, that works in The City." -- Libertarian Friend

***
Link
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/10/16/73234/166/371/632197

>>>

Here's a relevant discussion about the original exchange (with video) between Joe and Obama on the campaign trail, in a Daily Kos thread:

Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFC9jv9jfoA

"We don't throw the first punch, but we'll throw the last."
~ Barack Obama
10.6.2008
You dopes just got SCHOOL'D-- OBAMA Style!

by Muzikal203

****************

"this video also exposes Joe's bullshit about Obama tapdancing in his answer to him. it is astonishing to see how much people's preconceived notions shape their perception of reality.

Joe: (This guys going to tapdance)

Obama: Pretty damn direct answer about why it is important for the affluent to pay more to support offering tax breaks to the truly pinched - and by the way that will be better for your business because they will be able to afford your services...

Joe: (Man that guy tap danced like Sammy Davis, Jr.)"-- oliver cromwell

"that was my first thought: WTF?!?!?!?!
he said, "you're going to tax me more, right?" and Obama said, "here's exactly how you'll be affected under my plan." and then laid out the details."--UntimelyRippd

"That was no "tap dance." That was an articulate, forceful, persuasive and compassionate articulation of Obama's core economic philosophy. He took his question head on and answered it directly. Joe and John McCain are free to disagree with that philosophy, but his answer was uncommonly frank and straightforward." --rebop

"I see this as a key difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats seem to realize that while success requires hard work, it almost invariably requires more than a bit of luck as well and that there are a lot of people out there who work just as hard, but aren't always blessed with success. Republicans have the attitude that success proves that you've worked hard, and that if you haven't succeeded in becoming wealthy, that you just simply can't have tried. Nice to see Obama mention the role that luck plays in success here.

Oh, and tapdancing? Get real.

Politicians cannot be depended upon to act in the interests of the public in the absence of collective pressure." -- Reframing the Debate

"So Joe is actually going to pay less tax under Obama if he grows his business by buying trucks and hiring new employees. Also, he said that the revenue for the business was $250,000 to $275,000 per year. I wonder if he understands that you aren't taxed on your gross revenue; you are taxed on your net income after deductable expenses. So chances are, even if Joe doesn't benefit from Obama's capital gains tax cut for small business, Joe will still not see his taxes go up because his net income is most likely less than $250,000.00. In fact, after all of his deductions for business expenses (such as payroll, supplies, office equipment, ect. ect.) are taken into account there is a real possibility that Joe's income is low enough that he we see his taxes go down more under an Obama administration than he would under a McCain administration."-- bhouston79

"Probably does his taxes at Walmart. I, also, was thinking that Joe the plumber doesn't realize that taxes are paid on the NET amount after he subtracts all his business expenses. Also, if his business is this large (maybe with several employees) wouldn't his personal income taxes be separate from his business taxes? So personnally he wouldn't be as effected as his business anyway. And, if his personal taxes are over $250,000 then why would people send their kids to college? I'm signing them up for trade school. I hope Rachel points this out tonight." --View From The Hill

"I hope Joe Plumber realizes that he's been given an incredible gift--the ear of the next president of the US--for five whole freakin' minutes. This man got to have the attention of the policy maker on his own, unique situation and not only hear how it would affect him right there, but the ideas behind why. What's not to understand? What did he expect? "Oh, no, sir, under my plan, Joe the Plumber will pay no taxes at all, and be fed grapes by bikini beer models every afternoon, too." I'm sure that answer would have had more nodding and smiling from Joe, but it would have been an empty campaign promise, designed to get the candidate out of the situation with his reputation intact, rather than getting the constituent out of the situation with a better understanding. It's kind of disappointing to see that our focus in public discourse has gone so far away from getting real answers to real questions that we don't even expect it anymore.

And the dude at 4:40 was right--This Guy IS Good. I want him to be my president." -- athenap

"Wow! I hope everyone in America watches that!

I had not seen the full exchange before. It's astounding to me that the McCain campaign thinks Obama committed some kind of gaffe in that exchange that they can capitalize on.

Obama clearly and persuasively articulated why his tax policy would work better than McCain's for both those at the bottom and the top of the economic ladder. It was a more persuasive articulation of the "rising tide lifts all boats" argument than I have heard him make in any of the debates. I hope news organizations play that exchange over and over between now and the election, because Obama makes an extremely compelling case in a way that I think most Americans can easily understand.

Anyone who watches this exchange will see a candidate who is smart, thoughtful, respectful of differing opinions, and most importantly cares about the well being of all Americans, not just those lucky/smart/hardworking enough to have made it to the top." -- rebop

"Notice how he interrupts Obama immediately at :39

Even if we didn't already know from his interview with Couric that he was just asking a hypo, we'd be able to figure that out by the way he stops Obama in mid-stream. No one who was really a small business owner, or potential buyer, would really interrupt just when things were getting intricate. Then, notice that he immediately starts up with the emotional phrase, "The American Dream"--clearly a dittohead there. Obama is so freaking brave and articulate, even when encountering a bonehead like this. Or plant. Or racist. Or all of the above."-- profhollygolightly

"why didnt Fox play the answer?

Maybe because it was a very resonable answer.My heart isnt bleeding for this dude who is about to start bringing down 280 Gs a year.I think the skin heads answer about tap dancing wont ring true to anyone who watches the video.I also didnt like the Sammy Davis reference." --gwh

'...So far, all the stars seemed to be lining up in Obama's favor. He leads in national opinion polls and in many of the battleground states where the November 4 race will be won or lost.

'Traders betting on future events in the political prediction markets are overwhelmingly predicting an Obama victory, giving the Illinois Democrat a better than 80 percent chance of winning.

'But Obama pointed out to deep-pocket contributors at a fund-raising breakfast in Manhattan that he was supposed to win New Hampshire last January in the Democratic primary but lost the state to Sen. Hillary Clinton.

'"For those of you who are feeling giddy or cocky or think this is all set, I just have two words for you: New Hampshire," Obama said.

'"I've been in these positions before when we were favored and the press starts getting carried away and we end up getting spanked," he said."...'

http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/washington/politics-us-usa-politics.html

"...While Mr. Obama is known for giving stirring speeches before stadium-sized crowds, less recognized is his shrewd oratory against his opponents. He has been able to turn a relative weakness — his inexperience in government and politics — into a strength: Messrs. Clinton and McCain and their aides have held Mr. Obama in low regard at times, seeing him as an untested upstart, and so his easy-going manner and ongoing success have unsettled them that much more.

"“Never let ‘em see you sweat: Barack Obama has mastered that concept, and it has thrown off political opponents for the past 20 months,” said William O’Reilly, a Republican political consultant in New York. “It prevented John McCain from knowing when he was scoring points last night. McCain needs to trust his instincts. Senator Obama will never look wounded, but that doesn’t mean he’s invulnerable.”..."

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/16/us/politics/16web-healy.html

Quote from#26...

"
"So Joe is actually going to pay less tax under Obama if he grows his business by buying trucks and hiring new employees. Also, he said that the revenue for the business was $250,000 to $275,000 per year. I wonder if he understands that you aren't taxed on your gross revenue; you are taxed on your net income after deductable expenses. So chances are, even if Joe doesn't benefit from Obama's capital gains tax cut for small business, Joe will still not see his taxes go up because his net income is most likely less than $250,000.00. In fact, after all of his deductions for business expenses (such as payroll, supplies, office equipment, ect. ect.) are taken into account there is a real possibility that Joe's income is low enough that he we see his taxes go down more under an Obama administration than he would under a McCain administration."-- bhouston79..."

joe...can u read? yo joe oooooooooo?

It Keeps getting better and better!

Joe the Plumber/Keating 5 connection

TheWrux at Daily Kos writes "There is a highly entertaining story bubbling just below the surface of legitimate journalism connecting Joe the Plumber, the everyman, workaday, lunch-pail totin' quarter-million-dollar-a-year plumber, to Charles Keating of the Keating 5 scandal.

Apparently, JTP, better known to the Ohio Department of Taxation as Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher, is, according to conservative blogger Martin Eisenstadt a "close relative" of one Robert Wurzelbacher, son-in-law of the infamous Charles Keating, of Keating 5 infamy.

http://www.eisenstadtgroup.com/2008/10/15/joe-the-plumber-wurzelbacher-related-to-charles-keating-oops/

So freaking what?

How close a relative? Is he actually a relative at all? You know how many Wurzelbachers there are floating around.

It doesn't really matter.

What matters is not whether the Ghost of Financial Scandals Past came back to bid young Joe W. to haunt the Obama campaign. What matters here is, did McCain realize that the man he was about to make the emotional linchpin of his final chance of becoming president is a five-second Google search from being connected to the greatest embarrassment of his political career?

If he did know this, how could he possibly bring Joe up at the debate? If he didn't know this, WHY DIDN'T HE? Are they so secure with the process that gave them Sarah Palin that the McCain campaign has become almost superstitiously averse to vetting anyone for anything?

It seems to me that Obama has gone out of his way to not bring up Charles Keating in this campaign, but the Old Man keeps showing up like a bad penny -- or to use a more lurid simile, like a giant turd in the McCain family's Baccarat crystal punch bowl."

#28 I know the feeling, Heath.
McOlde is a chimp in comparison. I do love chimps all the same ;)

"...Turns out that “Joe the Plumber,” as he became nationally known when Senator John McCain made him a theme at Wednesday night’s third and final presidential debate, may run a plumbing business but he is not a licensed plumber. His full name is Samuel J. Wurzelbacher. And he owes a bit in back taxes..."

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/16/joe-in-the-spotlight

I thought Obama did a decent job of explaining things and handling McCain's attack. McCain didn't have any gameplan other than bringing the worst to table. Obama has the tendency to go into sleep mode once in a while. He didn't show the fire as he did in debate II.

People can analyze and judge Obama left and right, up and down. But the bottom line seems straight forward. Obama is genuine. He doesn't put people down with insults and he doesn't get defensive when attacked. He is calm, poised and--classy. He simply speaks his mind that is connected to his heart. My way of offering support to this man who can take us into a new politics is to circle him with white light. May he and his family be protected in the days, months and years ahead. America, a part of our global community, is ready for change!

Trish~~

McCain's still hasn't gotten the hang of this "vetting" thing
by kos

Politico:

"John McCain hung his final presidential debate performance on an Ohio plumber who campaign aides never vetted.

A day after making Joseph Wurzelbacher famous, referencing him in the debate almost two dozen times as someone who would pay higher taxes under Barack Obama, McCain learned the fine print Thursday on the plumber’s not-so-tidy personal story: He owes back taxes. He is not a licensed plumber. And it turns out that Wurzelbacher makes less than $250,000 a year, which means he would receive a tax cut if Obama were elected president."

Yeah, kind of a big "whoops", huh?

"McCain likes to say that he isn’t George W. Bush – and in this case of bungled public relations, it is clear he is not. The famously-disciplined Bush campaign operation would likely have found the perfect anonymous citizen to illustrate a policy proposal, rather than spontaneously wrap itself around an unknown entity with so many asterisks."

Ouch.

"While the arc of Wurzelbacher’s breakneck trip through the news cycle – from private citizen to insta-celebrity to political target – offers a curious insight into the political media culture, it also appears to offer a glimpse into the McCain campaign’s on-the-fly decisionmaking style.

A McCain source said Thursday that the campaign read about Wurzelbacher on the Drudge Report, while another campaign aide confirmed that he was not vetted."

Ahh, that explains it all -- mix Drudge's carelessness with the facts with McCain's refusal to think before he acts and you have quite the explosive mix. It didn't take much shaking to have it explode in McCain's face.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/10/17/11935/363/459/633142

Not only is Joe the Plumber not a licensed plumber, he's also not a Joe -- he's a Steve.

If you haven't seen it, check out http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/16/mccain-and-obama-palling-around-must-be-the-al-smith-dinner -- look for BO's Steve quip -- very funny.

Re. 36

"Not only is Joe the Plumber not a licensed plumber, he's also not a Joe -- he's a Steve."

You mean Sam.

****
That was Barack at Al smith dinner:

"My middle name, it's not what you think. It's actually "Steve."
****

Marc Ambinder: Sam The Not-Officialy-A-Plumber

(I.e., Joe The Plumber's name isn't Joe, and he's not officially a plumber. Discuss.)

Actually, he's "Sam The Guy Who Does Plumbing," technicallly.

"Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher."

His voter registration application misspells his name, btw. ("Worzelbacher.")

Patrick Levine Rose, an election attorney and appellate law specialist in East Lansing, MI asked these questions on Rick Hasen's election law listserve:

"Wouldn't it be ironic if Joe the Plumber lost his vote due to this mismatch in how his name appears in the voter database?

It could not have been the GOP's goal to challenge Joe the Plumber's vote?"

I'm still amused by everyone's real person fetish fulfillment of the day, but you've got to hand it to the McCain campaign: they've found a way to get people talking.

On the other hand, every mention of "Joe" includes the fact that his taxes would get cut under Obama's plan.

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/

Joe Biden on Jay Leno, Tonight Show:

"Let me put it this way: I don't know -- the neighborhood I grew up, even the neighborhood I live in now, which is a really nice neighborhood, I don't know many plumbers who are making $250,000 a year and worried about it. We're kind of worried about Joe the fireman, Joe the policeman, Joe the real plumber with a license."

_________

Tim Burga, AFL-CIO: You can quote me as saying, "Joe is not a plumber he's a businessman. If we don't elect Barack Obama, the plumbing business and working families dreams will go down the drain."

________

Plumbers Union, rip 'Joe the Plumber'

_________

Parnes and Budoff Brown of Politico describe the Joe episode as of a piece with the great strengths and weaknesses of the McCain campaign: A big, attention-grabbing move, but little attention to detail. Palin 2.0, more or less:

"John McCain hung his final presidential debate performance on an Ohio plumber who campaign aides never vetted.

A day after making Joseph Wurzelbacher famous, referencing him in the debate almost two dozen times as someone who would pay higher taxes under Barack Obama, McCain learned the fine print Thursday on the plumber’s not-so-tidy personal story: He owes back taxes. He is not a licensed plumber. And it turns out that Wurzelbacher makes less than $250,000 a year, which means he would receive a tax cut if Obama were elected president.

McCain likes to say that he isn’t George W. Bush – and in this case of bungled public relations, it is clear he is not. The famously-disciplined Bush campaign operation would likely have found the perfect anonymous citizen to illustrate a policy proposal, rather than spontaneously wrap itself around an unknown entity with so many asterisks.

While the arc of Wurzelbacher’s breakneck trip through the news cycle – from private citizen to insta-celebrity to political target – offers a curious insight into the political media culture, it also appears to offer a glimpse into the McCain campaign’s on-the-fly decisionmaking style.

A McCain source said Thursday that the campaign read about Wurzelbacher on the Drudge Report, while another campaign aide confirmed that he was not vetted. Senior McCain adviser Matt McDonald told Politico after the debate that Wurzelbacher was not aware that he would become central to the candidates’ third and final showdown, although Wurzelbacher told reporters Thursday that the McCain campaign contacted him earlier in the week to ask him to appear with the candidate at a Toledo rally scheduled for Sunday. (He may not make it, now that he's scheduled to be in New York for TV interviews.)" [Politico.com]

The week reaches its logical conclusion:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3nmVKghL-c

Joe The Plumber: Obama's Plan Will Cut My Taxes

Here's how pathetic McCain's "Joe The Plumber" gambit is: despite the fact that Joe is a raving right-wing loon who thinks McCain is too far to the left, even he admits that Barack Obama's tax cut plan will lower his taxes. Watch as he (reluctantly) rebuts McCain's lies in this mock mini-debate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aejhxaNzMKM

hello Mallika and Everyone,

better late than never...

I didn't watch the debate...so, I thought it was great!

I am truly sick of John McCain, Barak Obama and their VP wannabees...and, I think, I, can now recite back to them their answers on most everything, since, the same questions are asked over and over again...Really, I could be their stand in...in case of an emergecy...neither of them stray to far from their talking points.

I will be happy to vote and happy if Barak Obama is elected. Change will be the name of the game on many levels and the same will also be the name of the game on many levels...but, at least, we will be surprised, for a good while, with, the new folks taking over the controls in Washington DC.

Barak Obama will now have to show and tell rather than just tell and that in itself will be different.

And the most important aspect of Barak Obama's possible election will the the fact that we will be a Nation that has been "saved," yes, "saved," Barak Obama's election will have saved the United States Of Amerian from the "clutches" of a Sarah Palin Vice Presidency and possible Presidency.....now.....in my book....that is a "saving" to vote for.....and Jesus couldn't do it any better than that!

so, you go Obama....Nov. 4th, 2008! the day you close this excruciating deal....:) ruth

Obama to staff, as per Ben Smith at Politico:

On a conference call with his campaign staff just now, Barack Obama delivered the same message he's been telling donors: Don't get cocky.

Obama got on the staff call with campaign manager David Plouffe to praise his staff, but also to tell them not to become overconfident, because -- in my source's paraphrase -- "too many people are counting on us not to screw this up.'

Eighteen days, he reminded them, is a long time, and told them to "run scared," run as though they were 10 points down, and "remember New Hampshire."

Natasha Chart: Campaign 'Depressing' for Palin

http://mydd.com/story/2008/10/17/112637/27

Glad to see you are on board for Barack Ruth, b/c I know how much you wanted Hilary to get into the WH. Like you say though, while it will (fingers crossed) be a refreshing "change" to have an African-American prez, the status quo in all too many ways shall remain.

Unless the right-wingers just go for all-out civil war . . .

I am hedging my bets on the complete downfall of capitalism myself :)!

Peace

BarbinMD: Where Are The Anti-America Areas Of The Country?

Campaigning today in North Carolina, Sarah Palin said something quite extraordinary:

"Palin also made a point of mentioning that she loved to visit the "pro-America" areas of the country, of which North Carolina is one. No word on which states she views as unpatriotic. ..."
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/10/17/to_avoid_being_depressed_palin.html?hpid=topnews

So, where are the anti-America areas of the country? I know she hasn't visited Maryland, so apparently that means I hate America. Has she visited your state?"

she's an embarrassment...does anyone really pay attention to this (running away from media) poopy pantz?