Because the style of these attacks is starkly different from what's come before, an even more global perspective may help uncover the reality behind them. Top cops were hit, the social center of business was hit, the terrorists were well equipped and trained, the planning was sophisticated and successful, and the terrorists were not suicidal, but rather a very determined gang. Look beyond religious fundamentalism. Commerce is the real target.

What I'm saying is look beyond the obvious for the source of the money.

shame on those cowardly criminals.

Terror really has no religion, or is in ALL religions(except perhaps not in Buddhism and Jainism):

2006 Malegaon blasts
From Wikipedia

"The 2006 Malegaon bombings were a series of bomb blasts that took place on 8 September 2006 in Malegaon, a town in the Nashik district of the Indian state of Maharashtra, located at some 290 km to the northeast of state capital Mumbai.

"The explosions, which caused the deaths of at least 37 people and injured over 125 more, took place in a Muslim cemetery, adjacent to a mosque, at around 13:15 local time after Friday prayers on the Shab e Bara'at holy day. Most of the blast victims were Muslim pilgrims.

"According to Maharashtra Police, blasts are the handiwork of Student Islamic Movement of India (SIMI). The suspicion is now directed towards the extremist Hindu movement Sangh Parivar, which would have enacted the blast with the help of SIMI related extremists. The Anti Terrorist Squad is still investigating (11/08)."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Malegaon_blasts

[A Hindu priest(ess) and a Hindu military officer with connections to the rightwing Hindu(-tva) nationalist political party, BJP(Indian version of GOP) are now being interrogated as prime suspects in the case.]

i have to disagree with you heather...it's not about commence but about hitting US and British subjects...

these attacks wreak of the 9/11 attacks and probably originated from the same source...

shame of these cowards...

You moron, Diablo, 911 was a clear attack on Commerce too. Hitting British and American subjects is a kind of PR justification for their terror acts by shifting the blame and playing the eternal victims of Iraq war. Or more practically taking them hostage gives them more leverage for their escape having been holed up inside the hotels. Moreover there were many innocent Indians indiscriminately shot upon and killed at a local subway station where no foreign nationals are known to visit. Some news reports were out that the terrorist demanded the release of all "Mujahideen" and demanding that Muslims in India should nor be troubled(by law enforcing agencies etc.) These look like Kashmir separatist militants with ties to Pakistan, or Pakistani nationals than Al Queda-related out to attack American and British interests.

Ref. 6

Times of India: We want all Mujahideen released: Terrorist inside Oberoi

"MUMBAI: A militant holed up inside Mumbai's Oberoi Hotel told a news channel on Thursday that seven attackers were holding hostages inside the

luxury establishment.

"There are seven of us inside hotel Oberoi," the man identified as Sahadullah told the channel. "We want all Mujahideens held in India released and only after that we will release the people."

"Release all the Mujahideens, and Muslims living in India should not be troubled," he said."

***

Mujahideen:

"A Mujahid(Arabic مجاهد, muǧāhid, literally "struggler") is a Muslim involved in a jihad, who is fighting in a war or involved in any other struggle. The plural is Mujahideen (Arabic: مجاهدين‎, muǧāhidīn). The word is from the same Arabic triliteral as jihad ("struggle"). In Islamic scripture, the mujahid contrasts with the qaid, one who does not join the jihad."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mujahideen

In India:

"An outfit calling itself the Indian Mujahideen came to light in 2008 with the multiple large scale terror attacks. Unlike the various Mujahideen's around this world this group is a specific organizational terror apparatus, as opposed to a coailiton of fighters.[citation needed] On November 26, 2008, a group calling itself the Deccan Mujahideen claimed responsibility for a string of attacks across Mumbai. The Weekly Standard claimed, "Indian intelligence believes the Indian Mujahideen is a front group created by Lashkar-e-Taiba and the Harkat ul Jihad al Islami to confuse investigators and cover the tracks of the Students' Islamic Movement of India, or SIMI, a radical Islamist movement. The groups receive support from Pakistan's Inter-Service Intelligence and are al Qaeda affiliates.""

In Kashmir:

"In Pakistan and the former princely state of (Jammu and) Kashmir (In British India), Kashmiris opposing Indian rule are often known as mujahideen.

In 1947, the mostly Pashtun Muslim tribesmen tried to force the annexation of Kashmir by Pakistan. Pakistan claimed these people were independent mujahideen helping a local insurgency, while India claimed that the invaders were Pakistani irregulars supported by the Pakistani Army which was still being run by British officials. The British appointed non-Muslim Hindu ruler of Jammu and Kashmir, Maharaja Hari Singh called upon help from British Indian army and the then Indian Prime minister Jawaharlal Nehru airlifted Indian troops to the region and tried to drive off the insurgents.

Several different militant groups have since taken root in Indian Kashmir. Most noticeable of these groups are Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT), Jaish-e-Mohammed (JeM), Jammu and Kashmir Liberation Front (JKLF) and Harkat-ul-Mujahideen (HuM).["

Where would Kashmiri or Biharist or other separatists, or Afghani or Pakistani or Sri Lankan or other jihadists, get the money for the apparently expensive weaponry, and the ability to train secretly, and the boats, etc.? If the jihadists have such fine financing, why aren't they putting it to use where it counts for their causes, instead of hitting the Colaba district of Mumbai? This is not typical of what has happened in the past. India has been affected by the downturn, but not nearly as much as many other countries. What country would benefit most quickly and directly from a loss of global confidence in India's business and financial safety? Why this action, and why now?

- - -

But what matters more is the loss of life, the injuries, the destruction of personal lives, and the damage to property that helps sustain individual survival and spirit in Mumbai and India.

The NYTimes quotes Anand Giridharadas "who writes a column for the International Herald Tribune" about the Taj Hotel:

"Anyone, anywhere who has lived in Mumbai was gasping at the sight of a burning Taj Mahal Palace & Tower hotel. That is because it is not your average hotel.

"It is not another Sheraton or Hilton in the business district of another world city. It is the aorta through which anything glamorous, sentimental, confidential or profitable passes in Mumbai. Its major role is to serve its guests, who come from around the world and elsewhere in India. But it also serves the local city in a way that few hotels in the world could claim to do.

"If a momentous infidelity is being committed on a given night, or a billion-dollar business deal being inked, or a recklessly brilliant idea being hatched, there is a fair chance it is being committed, inked, hatched at the Taj. Mumbaikars who can afford it have their most romantic meals at its Wasabi restaurant, accept marriage proposals in its Sea Lounge, land job offers in its coffee shop. Non-guests are forbidden to use the pool. But so many Mumbaikars enterprisingly bring a towel, furnish a fake room number and dip into its manmade lagoon.

"It stands across from the Gateway of India. Those who would not dream of paying $3 – a decent daily wage – for one of its fresh-lime sodas sit outside the hotel, leaning against the stone wall on the sea. They take in the scene; they admire the finely dressed people breezing in and out. They know that it is not their time for the Taj now, but, should a fortune bless them, it is in the Taj they will spend it.

"Few other hotels of the world could say they were built out of spite.

"Legend has it that J.R.D. Tata, a nineteenth-century industrialist, was once turned away from a hotel in British-era Mumbai because he happened to be Indian. He decided, in a strange kind of revenge, to build the best hotel in the country, outfitted with German elevators, French bathtubs and other refinements from all around the world.

"The hotel became, for many Indians, a symbol of the overthrow of the indignities of the colonial age. And it became a symbol of the best that could be had in a city paved with dreams."

heath, Gotham, Diablo, Irvine:

Fareed Zakaria over at Newsweek is claiming it's a "misconception" to think that today's attacks were "aimed primarily at foreigners," saying there are much more target-rich environments for hitting Westerners than the two hotels hit today. As a Mumbai native, Zakaria's knowledge of the city and its politics are invaluable and reflect the more nuanced views floating out there now:

"My guess is that ultimately this will turn out to be some outside jihadi groups who might also recruit among disaffected Muslims locally....If you wanted to construct a conspiracy theory, it would go like this: elements of the Pakistani intelligence service that would like to get India more drawn into conflict in Kashmir might encourage this sort of thing. That would draw militants in the Pakistani tribal areas away from attacking the Pakistani state, and back to attacking the Indian state. But I've never tended to believe such theories. More plausible to me: this is a classic Frankenstein monster. All these groups have some degree of training and support from Pakistan. But this operation probably does not involve that directly. These groups are now autonomous, self-supporting, and have gone beyond those origins."

http://www.newsweek.com/id/171006

Another good source of information to understand the complex tensions in the region is Christine Amanpour, who discusses today's events at length over at CNN:

"What they've done is not just attack, take hostages, but engage also with the security forces."

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/11/26/amanpour.mumbai/index.html

So this really ratchets it up a very significant level. And it's been coming for about 20 years, these attacks.

Amanpour, like Zakaria, seems to think the claim of responsibility by the unknown Deccan Mujahedeen should be taken with a grain of salt.

The latest violence caps a year which has seen no fewer than seven deadly bombings which have killed hundreds, in Jaipur, Ahmedabad, Delhi, Assam and elsewhere.

There has been a wave of bombings in Indian cities in recent months which has left scores of people dead.

Most of the attacks have been blamed on Muslim militants, although police have also arrested suspected Hindu extremists.

As is well known to intentblog readers, Mumbai itself has also been attacked in the past: in July 2006 a series of bomb attacks on busy commuter trains killed almost 200 people and injured more than 700.

There is some limited political and religious violence in India every year, but the coordination of these attacks, as well as the theory (which Fareed Zakaria disputes) that internationals and Indian elites were targeted by these attacks, are part of what make today's violence especially alarming. I wonder if, given the inclusion of the Leopold Cafe, a popular tourist and expat hangout, there isn't something to the theory that elites and foreigners were targeted in part, though Zakaria (who should know) dismisses this theory.

Just as no one knows who is really responsible at this juncture (for all we know, it could be an Islamic extremist group, a Hindu extremist group, Pakistani militants, anybody), no one knows what the political fallout will be. The state of Maharashtra, which contains Mumbai, is run by the far-right, Hindu Nationalist 'Shiv Sena' party. The left-leaning Indian National Congress party and their coalition controls the national government, but with elections slated for 2009, that could change in a hurry.

The violence of today could be targeted for maximum political effect with the elections around the corner. They could have quite an effect upon the elections, perhaps bringing the right-wing National Democratic Alliance (led by the BJP) back to power.

dear Gotham,
Hatred is bred, and passed on
and
financing
makes these attacks possible.

May healing come in the form of
communication
which does not involve
firepower.

love & blessings to your family
and the family of IB.

Happy Thanksgiving.
~ Kate

"The left-leaning Indian National Congress party and their coalition controls the national government, but with elections slated for 2009, that could change in a hurry."#9

Several crucial State Assembly(Congress) elections are going on right now, including Jammu and Kashmir.

http://www.indian-elections.com/assembly-elections/

http://eci.gov.in/currentelections/schedule08.asp

Elections in India are typically held in several phases even within a particular state, before the votes are counted at the end of the process.

In Jammu and Kasmir which borders Pakistan(a hot spot for cross border terrorism) polling is as high as 65% in some constituencies although as usual some militant separatist groups, who are against democratic process or any signs of peace in the region, have called for a boycott.

Indeed, this could also be a part of a possible motive for the attack to destabilize the Indian state.

Looks like the attackers are Pakistani nationals who landed in boats to carry out the operation. Times of India reports:

"MUMBAI: Preliminary investigations on Thursday pointed to involvement of at least some Pakistani nationals in the serial terror attacks in Mumbai

that left over 100 dead and 270 others injured.

"There are indications that the perpetrators of the crime, who arrived in Mumbai by boats, are Pakistani nationals," authoritative sources said.

The indications are based on information gathered from captured terrorists, the sources said.

Maharashtra deputy chief minister R R Patil, who also holds the Home portfolio, said revealing detailed information on the terror strikes could prove detrimental at this juncture.

"We have total clues. But disclosing information would not help the case," Patil said. "This is an attack on the country. We will disclose information at an appropriate time," he said.

Meanwhile, there are reports that Colaba police have impounded four boats allegedly used by the terrorists to reach the Mumbai coast."

***

Possible AQ?

All signs of Al Qaeda inspired attack, says expert
Aziz Haniffa in Washington, DC

http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/nov/27mumbai-all-signs-of-alqaeda-inspired-attack.htm

Zakarias' and other opinions not withstanding, two unique aspects of these attacks make me question the conclusions being drawn so far:

First, it was the sense of safety of making business connections that was attacked.

Second, law enforcement was directly attacked.

These two foci remind me of Mafia operations in Italy a decade ago.

Irvine Welsh...

Who gives you the right to call me a moron? I never addressed anything to you, I did not know your name was heather.

if you are gonna attack ar fellow blogger in an unprovked manner, IB admin may have to sanction you...and if you don't apologise, you may not like it if or when i return the favor.

"Who gives you the right to call me a moron?"

Oops..I will take your permission next time.

BTW I would like to know who gave YOU the 'right' to call the Mumbai attackers "cowards."

If Tiger is around, or anyone else who can provide enlightenment, what does this mean?

"...“There are a lot of very, very angry Muslims in India,” Ms. Fair said, “The economic disparities are startling..."

It's from this article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/28/world/asia/28group.html

TIA.

I'm trying to connect some dots here. So, instead of viewing these attacks as an attack on American interests(surely a strong component of the overall motive) view them instead as the initial stages of a conflict for who will control this geographic region as power vaccums increase in number and size.

Earlier on CNN, Johnny McLaughlin, former CIA-DDI, stated there was likely an Al Qaeda influence seeking to inflame tensions between India and Pakistan over Kashmir. Given our experience over the last five years with asymmetric warfare that makes sense.
We(the U.S.) are trying to separate Al Qaeda from the Taliban. Obama has telegraphed increased military activity in Afghanistan. What's the asymmetric answer? Start trouble on another border.

Both Pakistan and India are nuclear powers. If Islamabad does not strongly condemn the attacks in short order, we might start holding our collective breath.

I pray it does not come to that.

Re. 16

You know what, unfortunately that is bad article from NY Times.

What is this economic disparity?

"What is this economic disparity?"

Which is bullshit in the context of terrorist attacks in India, or for that matter about social unrest.

Muslims are generally(on an average) poorer than middle class Hindus. Of course, the economic disparity between India's lowest backwards classes(mostly Hindus) like the Dalits and the middle class Indian is HUGE.

Most of tensions between Hindus and Muslims and Christians are motivated by religion than economic disparities.

Economics disparities and militant movements in India are a feature of the communist militants, maoists, naxalities etc who attack Indian police and army, not civilians like in terror activities.

From the Times article:

"Christine Fair, senior political scientist and a South Asia expert at the RAND Corporation, was careful to say that the identity of the terrorists could not yet be known. But she insisted the style of the attacks and the targets in Mumbai suggested the militants were likely to be Indian Muslims and not linked to Al Qaeda or Lashkar-e-Taiba, another violent South Asian terrorist group.

“There’s absolutely nothing Al Qaeda-like about it,” she said of the attack. “Did you see any suicide bombers? And there are no fingerprints of Lashkar. They don’t do hostage-taking and they don’t do grenades.” By contrast, Mr. Gohel in London said “the fingerprints point to an Islamic Al Qaeda-affiliated terrorist group.”"

Fair's "expertise" is proved wrong less than hours after this article is published. LeT militant based in Pak is arrested and Indian Prime Minister addressed the nation talking about "external links"

The NY Times jumped the gun on this with this article.

I think overseas investment for the past 20 years, plus steady NRI remittances, have generated a strong flow of cash into India which continues even now. This is one of the sources of India's strength and present growth. Mumbai is a great center of energy, cleverness, creativity and commercial courage, and as such has for decades contributed materially to the India of today. There's no better way to wound India than to attack a nexus that is one of the initiation points of, and is otherwise symbolic of, the deals that generate new streams into that cash flow. That is the effect that the Colaba attacks will have, at least in the short term. I don't think American or British interests per se are the targets of the attacks. I think the point is to shake India's connection with the rest of the world, financially. While Pakistan may appear to have a motive for that, actually Pakistan has no hope of prevailing over India, and in fact it has increased its own global gravitas as a result of its current semi-detente position vis-a-vis India. People training in, or coming from, Pakistan don't make this a Pakistani venture. Pakistan does not stand to gain if foreign investors decide to place new ventures in countries other than India because Pakistan already is seen as a place unsafe for foreign investment, which is why its economy is much weaker than India's. So who stands to gain? Phillipines, Malaysia, China. As for jihadist and separatist groups, no group with enough money to pull this off uses this style of attack. This was almost corporate in nature, especially the direct attack on law enforcement. There is also an aspect of trying to humiliate India's creative and economic pride here. In fact, that latter aspect is the only thing that leaves any thought, for me, that this attack may have a religious motive. Bollywood films, with their powerful emotional content and exciting entertainment qualities, are watched in Pakistan and Afghanistan, even in regions controlled by the Taliban, and as such, are a liberalizing influence.

Trying to understand the why of the attacks is the only way they can be prevented in the future.

- - -

Irv, "Muslims are generally(on an average) poorer than middle class Hindus." -- is this because of the religious proscription against borrowing, for Muslims? TIA again. Blessings to you on this Thanksgiving Day. I hope all is well with you.

I agree the links are external. But I don't think LeT is involved, it feels wrong, unless they've completely revamped their approach. Possibly not Al Quaeda, either, because the target is India, not the West.

"...“There are a lot of very, very angry Muslims in India,” Ms. Fair said, “The economic disparities are startling..."

Well, the economic disparity pales in comparison to say between the blacks and whites in the US.

There is no reason AFAIK to believe that whatever economic disparity between Muslims and the rest of the population in India is growing either.

Muslim minorities in India are given a lot of governmental assistance. And they have a lot of political presence in major parties.

Simlarily Backward castes(Hindus) are more economically deprived than the Muslims, this must make them "very very very very angry" according to Fair. If you want religion angle too, Christian minorities are poorer than Muslims in India (because it's mostly poor Hindus from backward castes who convert/motivated to convert to Christianity.)

My view is that Muslims in India are more safe and secure than Muslims anywhere in the world right now.

What about the direct attack on law enforcement?

Thank you, Tiger, that's a hopeful thing for the way economics might negatively affect India's politics.

Blessings to all around the world, going offline for a while, have to work on the soup, etc. for today's feast.

When IB started three years ago, this level of dialogue about India simply wasn't happening. Communication has been facilitated, and some ignorance dispelled, over the past three years.

1993 Mumbai blasts(supposed to be a retaliation for anti-Muslim riots of 1992 after the demolition of Babri Masjid by Hindu extremists) were carried out by Mumbai Mafia. The Mafia Dons Dawood Ibrahim and Tiger Menon have escaped and Dawood is now supposedly living(hiding) in Karachi in Pak with the support of Pak Army/Intelligence. There are still a lot of Mumbai Mafia who now operate out of Dubai, Karachi, Bankok etc.

They could have easily carried out the operation of such scale with inputs from other elements(with their own motivations) in Pakistan/India or anywhere else.

A little history...

1993 Bombay bombings
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The 1993 Bombay bombings were a series of thirteen bomb explosions that took place in Bombay (now Mumbai), India on March 12, 1993.[3] The coordinated attacks were the most destructive bomb explosions in Indian history. The single-day attacks resulted in up to 250 civilian fatalities and 700 injuries.[4] The attacks are believed to have been coordinated by Dawood Ibrahim, don of the organized crime syndicate named D-Company, which had operated as a terrorist organization.[5] It is believed that the attacks were carried out in retaliation for widespread massacre of Muslims in Mumbai during December and January , and also the demolition of the Babri Masjid."

"Islamic terrorist groups based in Pakistan were suspected to be responsible for these bombings, and evidence uncovered pointed to the involvement of underworld don Dawood Ibrahim."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_Bombay_bombings

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawood_Ibrahim

Fuel for thought:

Exclusive: LeT terrorist Ismail arrested in Mumbai
Sheela Bhatt in New Delhi

Ismail alias Zakiruallah, a Punjabi from Faridkot in Pakistan who was arrested by the Mumbai police on Wednesday night during the terror attacks, is giving interrogators the complete story of how the sensational terror operation was planned and executed.

He has told the Mumbai police that he has been trained by the Lashkar e Tayiba, said police sources while giving chilling details of the most daring terror attack in India that has so far killed 101 people -- and the horror story is not over, yet.

rediff.com, with help of political and governmental sources in New Delhi [Images] and Mumbai, including from intelligence, has pieced together the government's thinking on the matter.

[...]

full story...

http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/nov/27mum-lashkar-0operative-ismail-arrested-for-attacks.htm

#17 Could it be Plutonic movements of the deep, Bonnie?
I,Capricorn ;)

Hi Ed

If you through Mars into the equation, it is as good a way to understand the underlying realities of what is manifesting as any.

(And we think we are in control and can explain it. ha!)

Am off for awhile

Blessings,
B

oops that would be throw not through.

Seed is Hate: Terrorism, Fanaticism, Racism, Prejudice, Indifference are the flowerings of the same seed differing only because of difference in fertilizers. When these flowerings explode and release it's energy...That energy is called "Anger".

--------------------------------------------------

Who really are Terrorists? killers in Mumbai, Iraq, Afghanistan or Bill Ayers............

Or

All Of Us

------------------------------------

Mind chooses to say : I like it .......turns into craving, obsession, desiring for more.....

Mind chooses to say: I don't like it...... turns into Aversion generating Fear, Dislike, Hate

-----------------------------------------

Solution:

In Observing - we accept every sensation with in giving total respect and It dissolves............ Leading us to realize we were never the waves in the Ocean but We are Ocean.....

If It has taken us our life to generate our likings / dislikings....... Do you think it will take some time to have them dissolved and merge back into the Ocean of our being......

Happy Journey...

:-)

Jatinder

Irvive Welsh,

You have not apologised for your unprovoked personal attack. If you do not, I'll lodge an official complaint with IB admin.

BTW, calling the criminal Mumbai attackers "cowardsly" is not a personal attack.

Your name-calling is completely unnecessary. You can disagree with anyone without being disagreeable, even if you see yourself as a know-it-all. Furher, I never addressed any comment to you, but to Heather.

The national Intelligence Council has released a new report caleed "Global Trends 2025".

Coming out about four days before these attacks, it's views seem prescient:

(From http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2008/11/18/report-terrorism-relevant/)

"Some of the headlines, which will officially be released Thursday with the report, "Global Trends 2025," are striking."

"Among them:
-Terrorism will have less appeal, will be less relevant and less of a problem. However, those to whom the message appeals, will be more dedicated and more dangerous. The threats will diminish, as will the number of attacks. However, the attacks that do occur will be more lethal because of the availability of bioterrorism agents."

So we see the majority of people moving away from supporting terrorism. However, the effect is that this leaves the hard core "base" of terrorists , who will devote their energy to creating ever more lethal attacks in their desperation to gain some political power.

If people cave in to acting out of vengeance, instead of treating terrorism as the crime it is and prosecuting it using crime-fighting tactics, the terrorists will gain power.

As we saw with the Bush/Cheney administration, once you stoop to using the same tactics as the terrorists (torture, violence, extremist ideology) you lose the moral high ground, and you lose the support of the majority of people. You also lose the battle with the terrorists, as your vengeance-wreaking has the effect of creating more terrorism and inspiring more people to support the terrorists, or even become terrorists themselves.

The goal of the terrorists is to provoke a counterattack and start a firestorm. By doing so, you play exactly into their hands. Then the terrorists control you, not vice versa.

This is a lesson that is extremely important to learn if we are going to be successful in defusing terrorism globally.